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Erin Burnett Outfront

Vance's One-On-One With Far-Right Leader Raises Alarms; DOJ Asks Judge To Dismiss Case Against NYC Mayor, Ending Standoff; Sources: Trump Admin Fires Nuclear Stockpile Employees, Unaware Of Their Roles. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired February 14, 2025 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:42]

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:

Breaking news, Vance's extreme one on one. The vice president meeting with the leader of a far right party leader in Germany, a party whose members have been convicted of using Nazi rhetoric.

Also breaking, disruption and disorder inside the Justice Department. A seventh prosecutor quitting over the DOJ demands to drop the case against New York City's mayor.

And an OUTFRONT exclusive tonight, the man swallowed by a whale and spat back out. All of it caught on tape. He is alive to tell the story. He is our guest tonight.

Let's go OUTFRONT.

And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.

OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news, alarm bells going off among America's closest allies after Vice President J.D. Vance gave an extensive face time meeting to the leader of an extreme far right party in Germany, a party which includes members who have been convicted of using Nazi rhetoric.

Now, Vance did not meet with Germanys actual leader, Chancellor Olaf Scholz, instead choosing to elevate Alice Weidel, leader of the anti- immigrant party called AFD. He chose to meet with her instead.

Our producer there, Claudia Otto, confirms some details of this meeting, including that it lasted 30 full minutes. It comes just weeks after Elon Musk addressed the AFD party convention, sending shockwaves throughout Europe. As Musk told the party not to be ashamed of Germany's past.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELON MUSK, TECH BILLIONAIRE: I think there's like, frankly, too much of a -- of a focus on -- on past guilt, and we need to move beyond that.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: German chancellor Scholz, in an incredible moment after that, slammed Musk's decision to meet and cozy up to the far right party's main candidate.

He said this to our Fred Pleitgen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLAF SCHOLZ, GERMAN CHANCELLOR: What is new is that he is intervening in favor of right wing politicians all over Europe, and this is really disgusting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Well, Musk is not alone now because J.D. Vance had that meeting today. We are told that that 30 minute sit-down again, that he did with the far right party when he did not meet with the leader of Germany, covered a wide range of topics. Our reporter on the ground saying that include the war in Ukraine. It included Germany's most pressing domestic issues, which almost certainly included immigration, which has been the center of Alice Weidel's campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What would you do if you became the chancellor immediately?

ALICE WEIDEL, LEADER OF GERMANY'S FAR-RIGHT AFD: Well, closing our borders, controlling them and then sending out all the illegals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: It certainly sounds in lockstep with President Trump, and the context is important here. Over the past few years, Germany has taken in millions of refugees, mostly from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan. And the AFD wants them out.

And if you listen to one of their rallies, it does sound strikingly familiar to Americans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WEIDEL (through translator): We want law and order. We need cheap energy. The next step will therefore be to withdraw from the Paris climate agreement. No financial aid to Ukraine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: A campaign speech that, well, could have been exactly what Trump would say if you substituted her for him on that stage. And that may be why Trump, Vance, Musk are fans.

But Vance is now blaming the media for the reporting on AFD and its platform, writing, quote, American media slanders AFD as Nazi-lite. But AFD is most popular in the same areas of Germany that were most resistant to the Nazis. Well, geography is not everything, but here are some facts. One of the

group's high profile leaders was convicted for a second time last year for using a known Nazi slogan at a political event. A court also found a youth group that falls under the AFD umbrella of engaging in, quote, massive, anti-foreigner and in particular anti-Islam and anti-Muslim agitation. And according to Germany's intelligence agency, the group is likely to adopt, quote, non-peaceful behavior towards people perceived as foreign.

Well, those concerns are why tens of thousands of protesters just gathered in Berlin. Their message was to keep up the, quote, firewall against the far right in Germany.

Now, we mentioned that word firewall because it's about to be extremely important. It's a term right now used in German politics as a euphemism for stopping the anti-immigrant, far right party AFD.

And today, while slamming Americas European allies, J.D. Vance used that exact same word, clearly taking a stand for the AFD.

[19:05:11]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: European democracy rests on the sacred principle that the voice of the people matters. There's no room for firewalls.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Tonight, Trump praising Vance's speech, but Germany's chancellor Olaf Scholz, responding immediately online with this, quote, the Democratic parties in Germany have a common consensus. This is the firewall against extreme right wing parties.

And Fred Pleitgen is OUTFRONT.

Fred, you have covered this party. You've interviewed the same leader we the Vance, met with. Obviously, you spoke to the German chancellor when he made those incredible comments about Elon Musk's appearance before that group. What more do you know about the meeting today between Vance and the leader of the AFD?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I know that the AFD is absolutely elated about this meeting. Alice Weidel, according to German media, actually traveled to Munich specifically for that meeting. She's not doing anything else at the Munich security conference.

We know, as you mentioned, that the meeting lasted 30 hours, 30 minutes, sorry, that it happened in the hotel that J.D. Vance is staying in and that it involved J.D. Vance, two of his advisors, Alice Weidel, the head of the AFD, and her press secretary as well.

And as you mentioned, the two topics that the AFD said were left, right and center in this meeting is the war in Ukraine, where, of course, the AFD does have a very similar position to Russia, for instance, as far as support for Ukraine or non support for Ukraine is concerned.

Now, they then said that they did talk about domestic political issues in Germany and that the firewall that you just mentioned certainly was one of the main topics. The AFD, Erin, right now is in a full court press against a lot of the other German parties, telling them you need to include us in any government. What J.D. Vance said on the stage today is something that German politicians have heard from the AFD in the past as well.

And, of course, having J.D. Vance in their corner is something that they believe gives them a great deal of legitimacy. We've been keeping an eye on the social media account of Alice Weidel throughout the better part of the day, and after the Munich security conference, after J.D. Vance spoke there, she fired off a flurry of tweets of posts on her account, saying that J.D. Vance is a great politician, that his speech was excellent, but also saying that the Trump administration has acknowledged that only with the AFD can there be a return to a regular immigration policy in Germany, so that once again linking the Trump administration to the AFD, especially as far as immigration concern, is definitely a big thing for the AFD.

One final thing, Erin, Donald Trump and J.D. Vance have almost hero like status in the AFD. If you go to their party conventions, you go to their campaign events, you do find Donald Trump books, you find shirts and the like there as well -- Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Fred Pleitgen, thank you very much, who has done such extensive coverage on that tonight. Thank you, Fred, and I want to go to Leon Panetta now, former defense secretary, CIA director, who has served under both Republican and Democratic presidents.

So, Secretary Panetta, when you hear all of this, Vice President Vance, meeting with the leader of the far right German AFD today for 30 minutes did not meet with Olaf Scholz, that party, you know, we went through some of the some of the things that stand out members have been convicted for using Nazi rhetoric, a court finding that youth group involved with the party engaged in massive anti-foreign agitation.

The message here, secretary, appears to be loud and clear.

LEON PANETTA, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, it certainly is concerning. You know, having been to the Munich conference a number of times, usually when a vice president or president goes to the Munich conference, he discusses the importance of security between the United States and our European allies in order to make sure that tyrants like Putin don't take advantage of Europe.

Even if Vance had gone there and criticized our European friends for perhaps not investing enough in defense, I think that's a legitimate criticism. But to get involved in their internal politics, particularly where it involves, a very right wing group.

And we're talking about a Europe that with the United States fought World War II, in order to stop Nazism from controlling Europe. I just think it's not -- it's not a good idea for the United States to suddenly inject itself into that discussion. That's up to Germany to decide how to handle it. They know what Nazism is about. Let them decide how to deal with this issue.

BURNETT: The use of the word firewall, of course, was used so specifically again and again today, Secretary, including by J.D. Vance.

[19:10:06]

When President Trump commented on Vance's speech, you know, which -- which talked about a very different view of Europe, he called it brilliant. He said that Europe, quote, has to be careful, has to be careful. What did you hear?

PANETTA: You know, I find it difficult to try to urge European countries to somehow allow that kind of extremism to exist within their boundaries. I mean, if a -- if a European leader had come to the United States and said to us that we have to improve our relationship with the Ku Klux Klan, I tell them to go to hell.

And so I just don't think that we have -- we have to get involved in countries that are trying to protect themselves from extremism that might lead to another confrontation, or another war that we saw in World War II. That -- that is something, frankly, we should avoid.

BURNETT: Secretary, I mean, it's deeply concerning. And, you know, we also had had played a clip there. Elon Musk had addressed that same far right group, you know, very recently, before J.D. Vance. And we are continuing to see how much influence Musk has in this administration.

Yesterday, he met with the Indian prime minister, Modi, along with Musk's family. And we know when Trump was asked about -- well, what did Musk and Modi talk about? His answer was quite direct. He said, well, I assume he wants to do business in India. He's got a lot of companies there. And Musk does with Tesla, Starlink, Space research.

Secretary, do you see any issues with Musk meeting with Modi and other world leaders and taking on the role that he so far has?

PANETTA: Well, you know, I -- I get very nervous about people that don't have a portfolio or don't have a credential, going out and representing the United States when they haven't been confirmed by the United States Senate in their position or don't really have an official position per se. So it's -- it's unusual.

Now, you know, I understand the relationship. I understand that Elon Musk is a -- is a bright guy and could probably give you some pretty good advice on a number of issues. But I think for the administrations sake that they've got to be able to make sure that everybody is coming together on the same message with regards to what's going to be delivered to our allies or our friends abroad. And I'm getting the impression that there are a lot of loose cannons right now involved in deciding what our policy is really about. BURNETT: Secretary Panetta, I'm grateful for your time. Thank you.

PANETTA: Thank you.

BURNETT: And next, we have breaking news. The U.S. Justice Department, an update here, the disarray continues. A seventh prosecutor resigns after refusing to dismiss the crucial New York City Mayor Eric Adams' corruption case.

And we are now learning that the DOJ under Trump is getting what it wants. Wait till you hear what has just happened.

Plus, missing in action, Elon Musk promised to provide a detailed list of the savings he's racked up by today. As of now, 7:13 Eastern, the list is still MIA.

And an OUTFRONT exclusive, I'm going to speak to the kayaker who was swallowed and then spit out by a whale. What happened when he was inside the mouth of that whale? Well, he's going to tell you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:17:58]

BURNETT: Breaking news, prosecutors formally asking to dismiss the federal corruption charges against New York City Mayor Eric Adams after seven officials quit rather than cave to Trump's demand and the case.

Acting Attorney General Emil Bove convened a meeting with the remaining prosecutors on the case today, and he told them, he told them, just find one person, one person to file the official dismissal or else. Well, the lead prosecutor, Hagan Scotten, was the latest to say no way and to quit, writing in a scathing letter, which it is worth printing and reading yourself. But one of the most important lines was this one.

He says any assistant U.S. attorney would know that our laws and traditions do not allow using the prosecutorial power to influence other citizens, much less elected officials, in this way. If no lawyer within earshot of the president is willing to give him that advice, then I expect you will eventually find someone who is enough of a fool or enough of a coward to file your motion, but it was never going to be me.

Trump was asked about the resignations today. He said this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If they had a problem. And these are mostly people from the previous administration, you understand? So they weren't going to be there anyway. They were going to all be gone or dismissed. If not, because what you do is you come in and you put new people in. So when you say resign, they're going to be gone anyway.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Well, that's not exactly true. I mean, the acting U.S. Attorney Danielle Sassoon, remember we talked about her last night for the Southern District of New York who quit yesterday over this demand. She was actually put in her position by Trump, by the Trump administration. She had just been put in it by him.

And she clerked for the very conservative late Justice Scalia, was a member of the Federalist Society. Her bona fides and conservatism are very strong. Scott and I just mentioned who quit today, clerked for the Supreme Court justice chief justice John Roberts, and for Brett Kavanaugh before he was appointed to the Supreme Court. Not exactly a liberal, either.

And it's also worth noting that Scott has an incredibly successful career. He was awarded two Bronze stars as a troop commander in Iraq.

Kara Scannell is OUTFRONT in New York City tonight.

[19:20:03]

So, Kara, here we are. You know, you had another prosecutor resigning, saying only a fool or a coward would do it. And the biggest mass resignation since Nixon. And yet here tonight, the breaking news is somebody actually signed it to dismiss the case. So what happened?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Erin, we've got three signatures on this document, but it was really unclear heading into this morning if we were going to end up exactly where we are right now. And what we know from our sources is that Emil Bove, the deputy attorney general, had convened a meeting with the members of the public integrity section in Washington, D.C. now, these are, you know, not including the five that resigned yesterday in protest because they wouldn't put their signatures on this document.

So he convened a meeting with them, and he said he needed at least one career prosecutor who was willing to sign their name. There was no overt threat in that meeting, although sources tell us that everyone was cognizant that the people who did not follow his directive issued earlier in the week, either resigned or were placed on administrative leave.

So then after they left the meeting, the team remaining convened their own separate meeting, and in that they were discussing a couple of options, including a mass resignation from that section. But ultimately they agreed that at least one person would step forward. And sources tell us that Ed Sullivan, a senior litigation counsel who is close to retirement, had agreed to do that.

Now, ultimately, he wasn't the only signature on this document. Also on the document is Tony Bacon, who is the acting chief of the criminal division, and also, Emil Bove. He is the one who ordered this directive, and he is the most senior person in the Justice Department other than the attorney general at this point.

Now, this will next go to the judge, Judge Dale Ho, who was appointed by President Joe Biden. It will be up to him what he wants to do next. Does he hold a hearing? Does he call these prosecutors in to talk about it, or does he agree on these motions to dismiss the case? That's next, Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Kara, thank you very much. Just an incredible story. As we said, the biggest mass resignation since the Saturday night massacre in the Nixon administration.

OUTFRONT now is Congressman Jamie Raskin, top Democrat on the Judiciary Committee.

Congressman, so Bove finally got what he wanted. He got someone to file the dismissal of the case. One of the people was himself, and the other was someone who was nearing retirement. And there was a third.

But, you know, I'm sure you read the resignation by Mr. Scotten today, saying only a fool or coward would do such a thing. And as I mentioned, he had clerked for Roberts. He had clerked for Kavanaugh. What do you make about how all this went down?

REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): Well, the whole episode is saturated with corruption. The case itself is about the corruption of the mayor and not only the U.S. attorneys office in New York, but a grand jury in New York found that there was probable cause to bring multiple counts of criminal corruption against the mayor. So that was proceeding apace until Donald Trump made a deal with him, a corrupt bargain. Essentially, if you come on to my political team, we will drop these charges against you. That's extraordinary. And it's obviously illegal, and it is corrupt.

And so that's why you have this, you know, chain of dominoes fall, you know, falling after U.S. Attorney Sassoon who's saying, no way. This is the Scalia clerk, the Federalist Society activist who said, this is, you know, completely corrupt and unacceptable. I won't do it. Then they got rid of the Office of Public Integrity. They got rid of the head of the criminal division. Several others left before they found somebody willing to do it.

I mean, I hate to think of the position that the judge is in or that lawyer is in appearing before a judge saying that this is something that you should accept because the judge has to approve the withdrawal of the grand jury subpoena at this point. I've never seen that happen in a case, but it does tell this larger story of the fact that the Trump administration in every agency and department, is now an instrument of corruption.

They got rid of 17 inspector generals, who are the people who fight corruption, waste, fraud and abuse in every department and agency, and they sacked them immediately and illegally. They got to come to Congress first 30 days before they're fired, and they have to set forth the specific grounds for their dismissal. They never did that.

These are people who saved us $93 billion last year in actually ferreting out waste, fraud and abuse. And so, you know, Elon Musk hasn't saved us $93 in waste, fraud and abuse. All he's done is fire people who are doing their jobs. And those are people in jobs like, you know, food and drug inspectors and air traffic controllers.

BURNETT: So, Congressman, let me ask you, though. I mean, you know, this whole issue in New York and not to get into the complexities of the case, right. It was a -- it was a very clear corruption case, right, pay to play essentially, you know, donations in exchange for favors.

And the whole allegation was that, well, they were going to drop the charges in that case in exchange for mayor Eric Adams cooperating with this administration on immigration.

[19:25:10]

So prior to this case, finally getting dismissed late tonight, Mayor Adams appeared on Fox News this morning with none other than the border czar, Trump's border czar, Tom Homan. They had a joint appearance this morning.

So, the immigration czar and the mayor of New York, in the midst of all of this scandal. And here's what Adams said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR ERIC ADAMS, NEW YORK CITY: Let's be clear. I'm not standing in the way. I'm collaborating against so many others that don't want to collaborate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, now --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: So, Congressman, the use of the word "collaborate", of course. Do you believe there was a quid pro quo between Trump's team and the mayor? Is there any doubt in your mind?

RASKIN: Yeah, that is an interesting deployment of the word "collaboration", which is, of course, what -- which was the term that was used to describe people who cooperated with fascists, before world war two.

But, you know, the quid pro quo question -- I mean, I think everybody can see it was obvious it was patent, what was taking place. But it's a little bit of a distraction because the real issue is that you can't say we are about to prosecute you for something, political corruption or anything else, unless you join my political team. You can't say that.

Whether you describe that as quid pro quo or a coercive offer or a godfather offer, whatever it is, you cant use criminal prosecution in that way. That's why all of these conservative lawyers are resigning en masse. And they had to basically have an extortionate meeting with the whole group of career people trying to hang on to their jobs.

BURNETT: All right. Well, Congressman, I really appreciate your time and thank you.

RASKIN: You bet.

BURNETT: You know, it's interesting to the congressman's point, one of the things that Mr. Scotten said in his resignation letter was he could understand how a chief executive like Trump could be seeing this as a transaction that you would do, but that it is up to the lawyers around him to stand up and say, no, that is not what you do with the U.S. justice system.

Ryan Goodman is here now.

So, Ryan, Mr. Scotten described it as, you know, you'll find eventually, if no ones going to tell the president that you will find eventually someone who is a coward enough to do this. Someone ultimately did it. One of them is Emil Bove himself, right? He was able to do that.

But then there were two others who signed on, one nearing retirement. I don't know, Tony Bacon. Do you know anything about these people? I mean, are they are they the cowards?

RYAN GOODMAN, CO-EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, JUST SECURITY: So when, Mr. Scotten wrote that letter, he might not have anticipated the scenario that seems to have unfolded. And so these two other individuals who then do step forward to sign it, two things are happening potentially, which is there's some reporting that they do it in order for their entire team not to have to resign or be fired. And so that's a different reason for it. It's not to use the word collaborating and not collaborating with Mr. --

BURNETT: It could be protecting people who didn't have the ability to quit their jobs.

GOODMAN: That's right. So they're trying to protect the entire public integrity unit of the main justice. In some ways, that might be a good outcome that the people who are trying to do the right thing are still there. And the document that is submitted, they get Emil Bove to sign it, which is very unusual. We have the second highest person in the Justice Department signing a document --

BURNETT: So, perhaps their way of proving we did this for this reason, and we're going to force you to do something so outside the normal realm to prove a point.

GOODMAN: A hundred percent. And the document is really interesting because it says the determination was made by Mr. Bove. Mr. Bove concluded this. Mr. Bove concluded that, not all included that we are not saying that we as U.S. attorneys.

BURNETT: So they may have been protectors rather than to overuse the word collaborators.

GOODMAN: Yes.

BURNETT: I want to play what Tom Homan said today with his appearance on Mayor Adams on Fox. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM HOMAN, BORDER CZAR: If he doesn't come through, I'll be back in New York City and we won't be sitting on a couch. I'll be in his office, up -- up his butt saying, where the hell is the agreement we came to?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: What is he saying there? Where the hell is the agreement we came to? If he doesn't come through, I'll be back in New York City.

GOODMAN: Yeah. So he's -- basically, this is the quid pro quo. It seems like this is the implicit threat. If you don't come through on your part of the agreement, I'm coming back to claim what we have, which is that we have submitted to the court that the case is still strong, and were asking the court to dismiss it, but not to throw it completely away. It's still hanging.

BURNETT: So, we can hang it like a sword.

GOODMAN: Absolutely. So the concern is that its not just weaponization to drop the case, it's actually weaponization to keep the case hovering above the mayor's head.

BURNETT: So he can continue to do what they want. This is -- it's an incredible moment that we are in. Thank you very much, Ryan.

GOODMAN: Thank you.

And next, breaking news, CNN is learning that the Trump administration just fired hundreds of employees who manage the nation's nuclear stockpile before realizing the role that these people actually played.

Plus, an OUTFRONT exclusive tonight on a Friday, the humpback whale, the one that came and swallowed and then spits out the kayaker and it's all caught on tape. It's absolutely incredible moment far, far down south of Chile.

What was it like inside a whale? Well, guess what? The kayaker is going to be OUTFRONT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:34:12]

BURNETT: Breaking news, the Trump administration officials fired more than 300 staffers tasked with managing the U.S. nuclear stockpile as part of broader government layoffs. Sources tell CNN that officials did not seem to realize the Energy Department agency that they worked for oversaw America's nuclear weapons.

The terminations happened. Then they were reversed this morning after members of Congress expressed concern that such crucial positions could go vacant.

OUTFRONT now, Brian Barrett, the executive editor at "Wired". Their team, as you know, has been breaking so much news on Musk and DOGE.

And, Brian, I really appreciate your taking the time tonight.

So, 300 people who manage America's nuclear weapons. So these are these are incredibly specific technical jobs. They get terminated in this effort to shrink the government. And then they get brought back once somebody goes, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. All cuts aren't the same. This is a problem.

What's your reaction when -- you know, when you hear how all this went down?

BRIAN BARRETT, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, WIRED: Well, I guess my first reaction is, I hope they actually do go back. I think they're not under any obligation to. And my second is that it speaks to this sort of ethos that we've seen to all of this cutting, which is that it is cutting for cutting sake.

It is we're going to reduce the number of employees we have, we're going to reduce the number of programs. We're going to reduce the amount of humanitarian aid, scientific research, you name it, just to hit a number. And in the process of hitting that number, if we lose really critical things, really important missions, really important research, if we lose the people who oversee the nuclear stockpile, so be it.

I'm glad that they are trying to reverse this. I hope they're able to, but I think that this is what is happening in every agency across the government. It's just a very highly visible, critical example of it.

BURNETT: Right, right. But, of course, the point being that, you know, sometimes being glib about what you're going to do needs to be followed up with careful, thoughtful decisions.

The page on Elon Musk's DOGE website, Brian, lists all the savings made for the American taxpayers. You know, that's what they say that's going to be there. Currently, that page is blank, except for the phrase receipts coming soon no later than Valentine's Day.

Now, Musk has promised maximum transparency around the massive amounts of fraud that he claims to have uncovered thus far.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELON MUSK, TECH BILLIONAIRE: All of our actions are maximally transparent. I don't know of a case where an organization has been more transparent than the DOGE organization. What we're finding is that a bunch of the fraud is not even going to Americans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: So, you know, I'm just curious, Brian, because we know the whole point about DOGE they do say with pride, right, that its Silicon Valley software engineers and interns who are -- are doing all of this. The website at this point, right now, there is still blank on this information here on the savings made. What's going on here? BARRETT: Yeah, I mean, there's no transparency. And I think it's

again, indicative of these are supposed to be the best and brightest, saving lots of money, maximum transparency. We haven't seen any of it.

Almost everything we know about DOGE has come from reporting I think this website, too. I would note, some very good journalists at 404 media, a small outlet pointed out that they left the database behind this website unsecured, so anyone could go in and publish changes to the website, and a few people did to prove it could happen. This is sort of sloppy work.

It's also sloppy where they do try to be transparent. There's a section of the website that is active where they list details about every government agency and include -- in that, they included details about the national reconnaissance office, which is an intelligence agency that has classified information about how many people work there, what the budget is.

So what they are sharing, they shouldn't be what they should be sharing. They're not. And even when they do share a number of jobs or money that they've saved, they're not going to share the programs that went with it. They're not going to share how many -- the opportunity cost of all of those reductions.

BURNETT: I mean, it is -- it is crucial what you're pointing out. And I know you've got new reporting tonight about Musk's top DOGE staffer at the Treasury Department. This is now the highest ranking, nonpolitical staff member. And who is this person?

BARRETT: This guy's name is Tom Krause. And I think what's important to note about him is that while he is the highest ranking DOGE member at the Treasury Department, he is also currently the CEO of a software company called the Cloud Software Group. He is doing both of these things at the same time.

The conflict of interest is sort of obvious in this case. You don't really have to look hard to find it. I know that there is a history in government of a revolving door where someone goes from an agency to -- to a business, but doing them at the same time seems beyond the pale.

And I think, again, is just something that we are going to have to look out for across the government.

BURNETT: All right. Well, we're grateful to you and your team for doing so much of that looking out.

Brian, Thank you.

BARRETT: Thank you.

BURNETT: And next, Trump suffering a new setback as he has been cracking down via executive order on transgender rights. Now targeting the stonewall national monument.

Plus, tonight, an OUTFRONT exclusive on this Friday, that terrifying video of the kayaker swallowed by a whale and then spit out. So what was it like inside a whale? The kayaker will tell you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:42:30]

BURNETT: Tonight, the courts dealing Trump a setback. A second federal judge temporarily blocking an executive order rolling back transgender rights. Trump has announced four orders so far, rolling those rights back, including purging all government websites of the word transgender.

The latest is the webpage for the Stonewall national monument, which was the birthplace of the gay rights movement, where transgender activists played a crucial role -- now shortening LGBTQ to LGB.

OUTFRONT now Sofia Nelson, a former close friend and Yale Law School classmate of Vice President J.D. Vance, and Sofia familiar to so many of our viewers.

But this is the first time, you know, you and I have talked since Trump and Vance won the election. And, you know, we talked prior to that about how he supported you when you had your own gender affirming surgery back in 2012. But now, here in these past few weeks, we've seen executive order of executive order rolling back transgender rights.

I mean, how have you processed that? What has gone through your mind as you have seen this unfold so quickly?

SOFIA NELSON, J.D. VANCE'S FORMER YALE CLASSMATE AND FRIEND: Thank you for having me, Erin, and good evening. It's just been a furious pace and the breadth of the orders and the quickness of them have been shocking. And I suppose I shouldn't have been so naive, but I was hopeful that it wouldn't be quite as bad as some people were predicting. And it's been as bad, if not worse.

There seems to be a very concerted effort to erase trans people from public life, and from the history books. We know that Marsha P. Johnson and Sylvia Rivera, heroes of the transgender community and of the LGBT rights movement, were at the forefront of the Stonewall uprising, and they led what became the modern day LGBT rights movement, which is memorialized at the stonewall national monument.

And to erase that history, to rewrite history, that's a real authoritarian move, Erin, and it's part of this overall effort to erase trans people from public life and from the history. But the truth is, we've always been here, and we will always be here. And they can try as hard as they would like, but we're not going anywhere.

BURNETT: I mean, Vance has spoken about the showdown that the Trump administration has had with the courts so far, right? We talk about the order today. You know, being put on pause by a federal judge for the second time. And that's happened on other topics as well. But Vance said, Sophia, quote, judges aren't allowed to control the executive's legitimate power.

Now, you're a public defender. Now, you went to law school with Vance.

[19:45:01]

So what's your reaction when you see him post something like that? Judges aren't allowed to control the executive's legitimate power.

NELSON: So Vance -- J.D. and I actually took in constitutional law together. So we read and analyzed Marbury versus Madison together. That is the Article Three power of the judiciary. That's what separation of powers means. Congress writes the laws. The executive enacts laws, and the judiciary gets to decide whether a law is constitutional and an executive action is constitutional.

So the courts are doing right now is exactly what they were designed to do by the Constitution and by our Founding Fathers. And that's been the case since 1808, and the U.S. Supreme Court decision in Marbury versus Madison.

I mean, what we're facing right now is the beginning of a constitutional crisis. And this isn't the first time. I mean, J.D.'s tweet wasn't surprising to me. He said that previously, you know, kind of admiring this Andrew Jackson will -- let them come. Let's come see them enforce it style.

And it's incredibly dangerous. It's the thing of authoritarians ignoring the courts is something authoritarians do. And we've already seen hints of it. I know a Rhode Island judge, um, has been questioning whether the Trump administration has been complying with its court orders to release certain federal funds that Congress appropriated.

BURNETT: So, you know, in all of this, you know, I talk about that tweet from J.D. Vance, and, you know, he's getting a lot of -- we let our show today with his comments out of the Munich security conference. But overall, Sofia, Elon Musk has overshadowed Vance in public in these first weeks at least of the new administration tonight, actually appearing in a joint interview with Trump instead of Vance.

So Vance is in Munich and Sean Hannity is interviewing Musk and Trump. It's odd, right? That's -- well, that's the role, but he's not the actual vice president.

I mean, it's extremely rare to see a joint interview with president of the United States, really ever. Never mind if it's not with the first lady or the vice president.

So -- today, Vance said something that could be telling when he was talking. Here's what it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANCE: If American democracy can survive ten years of Greta Thunberg's scolding, you guys can survive a few months of Elon Musk.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: How do you think he's feeling with this Elon Musk situation?

NELSON: I mean, this is what Donald Trump does, right? He loves people to have to publicly fight for his attention and his approval. And I don't think this is what J.D. signed up for. So -- and I think the president made that clear recently when he was asked if J.D. was his successor and he said, no, I'm not sure Trump envisions that he has a successor at all. But there's never -- it was never going to be a world where he didn't pit people against each other.

And so, you know, this is -- J.D. is getting what he signed up for. And I don't have any sympathy for that.

BURNETT: All right. Well, Sofia, I really appreciate talking to you. And thank you.

NELSON: Thank you for having me, Erin.

BURNETT: All right. You, too. And next, an exclusive interview with the kayaker, the one who was swallowed by the whale and spit out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:51:03]

BURNETT: Tonight, swallowed by a whale. Twenty-three-year-old Adrian Simancas swallowed and then spit out by a humpback whale while kayaking last weekend. It's a truly incredible thing to even imagine. And then here's this. It was caught on tape.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DELL SIMANCAS, FATHER OF KAYAKER SWALLOWED BY WHALE: Hey! Come here, come here! Cam down, grab the boat! Grab it, calm, grab it, grab it, grab it, don't climb on it! Grab it!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: His father recorded that video while the two were kayaking in the Strait of Magellan in southern Chile. And Adrian and his father, Dell are here to tell the tale. OUTFRONT tonight.

Adrian, I think the whole world has seen this video probably many times. I can't stop watching it. We're showing it again.

You are the one there. You're paddling. The waters look very choppy, cold, gray. And then all of a sudden you disappear for several seconds. Can you tell me what happened?

ADRIAN SIMANCAS, KAYAKER SWALLOWED BY WHALE: Yeah. I was at Bahia el Aguila (ph). We were on our packraft and suddenly I felt like a wave struck me from behind. But it was very, very heavy to be anything like that.

So when I turn around, I -- I saw some blue dark colors and white flashing right through my face, and I felt a slimy texture in my cheek. And then it shut down on me and took me underwater. I closed my eyes because I thought that something would crash into my face, but I didn't feel it like a crash. It was like getting hit by a wave and the hurricane of water that forms below when you're at the beach and.

It was like one second of that strange feeling where I thought that I was already eaten by some kind of giant fish. But then I started to feel my water vest that was pulling me outside of the water. And there was two seconds until I got to the surface.

BURNETT: Adrian, did you -- you talk about feeling something slimy, and then it actually sounds like you're describing maybe what the mouth of the whale looked like when you talk about the gray and blue. Did you realize in those moments where you were that you were actually inside the whale's mouth?

ADRIAN SIMANCAS: I guessed I was inside something's mouth. But I didn't know it was a whale.

BURNETT: What -- what -- what? I can't even imagine. It's only a few seconds. But what could have been going through your mind?

[19:55:03]

I mean, did you -- did you realize in that moment. I mean, if someone says to you, what does it feel like to be inside a whale? There really aren't -- there really isn't anyone else on this planet that can answer that question. What was it like?

ADRIAN SIMANCAS: It was just a second but it felt like more time because I was thinking a lot of stuff. I remember about, Pinocchio, everyone saying that. Pinocchio. Pinocchio and Geppetto?

BURNETT: Yes.

ADRIAN SIMANCAS: And it was surprising. I -- I wasn't expecting that at all. So, at first I thought that I would die because there's nothing I can do if I'm inside the mouth of a giant fish. But, yeah, it was a whale. So then, I didn't have enough time to realize that I was not in danger. If the whale had a hit me, it would be more dangerous.

BURNETT: Dell, you were there. Those few seconds must have felt like interminable to you. But you were filming the whole thing. Why were you filming to begin with? I mean, it's incredible. This was actually caught on camera.

DELL SIMANCAS: Yes. While we were at the Aguila Bay, and we were doing very well n our packraft. And when we have good weather, everything's fine.

And when we got past the bay, we wanted to make a photo. And then a few waves started rising. And so we were very excited. And I have a camera, a selfie stick, a 360 degree camera. And I started recording it, and I was sort of just rowing.

And afterwards, I switched on the recorder. And in two seconds, I heard this incredible wave behind me. And when I turned around, I couldn't see Adrian anymore or his boat. So, I was absolutely terrified and knew that, you know, something was up. And then I saw him emerge to the surface. And then something huge came up by the side of him. And of course, it was the whale.

And when it came up, it was maneuvering all around. And. So then Adrian called me and I calmed down because I knew he was alive. So we were just very, very lucky to avoid this.

BURNETT: So will you both be out again? It obviously this is something you do together. Does this change in any way you're going to go back out and kayak there?

ADRIAN SIMANCAS: Yeah. Yeah, I want to go back.

DELL SIMANCAS: Yeah. Well, you know, we went on an expedition and we didn't get to the island that we wanted to.

ADRIAN SIMANCAS: And we hope maybe we can do it again but from a far distance.

BURNETT: I would hope so. Well, I really appreciate so much both of you talking to us. And, I hope that you get to that island. Thank you.

ADRIAN SIMANCAS: Thank you.

DELL SIMANCAS: Thank you. Muchas gracias.

BURNETT: Just an absolutely incredible story. Pinocchio in real life.

Well, thanks so much for joining us on this Friday night. I thought that would be a good way to end, to end the evening.

"AC360" with Anderson begins now.