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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump Deflects On Major Security Breach, Calls It "Witch Hunt"; Kristi Noem At Notorious Prison; Amanda Knox OutFront. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired March 26, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:27]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Breaking news, Trump claiming he knows nothing about America's extraordinary security breach while fully supporting his defense secretary, who wrote in a group chat, quote, this is when the first bombs will definitely drop.
Also, breaking, Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem visiting the brutal supermax prison that Trump holds up as a model. We're going to show you again, exclusively inside.
And Amanda Knox OUTFRONT. She spent four years in prison for a murder she didn't commit. Tonight, why she thinks her story resonates in the age of Trump. And what Monica Lewinsky texted her just before our show.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
(MUSIC)
BURNETT: And good evening. I'm Ein Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news. President Trump moments ago, deflecting on nearly every question asked of him about one of the most extraordinary security breaches in U.S. history.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it's a witch hunt. I wasn't involved with it, I don't -- I wasn't there.
REPORTER: Do you still believe nothing classified was shared?
TRUMP: Well, that's what I've heard. I don't know, I'm not sure. You'll have to ask the various people involved. I really don't know. Who's responsible?
REPORTER: Mike Waltz says that he's responsible.
TRUMP: Well, yeah. Mike Waltz. I guess he said -- he claimed responsibility. I would imagine. It had nothing to do with anyone else. It was Mike, I guess. I don't know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I guess, I don't know, I mean, Trump distancing himself in every way possible from the debacle. At the same time, though, you know, there when he was saying, yeah, Mike Waltz was responsible, he's really defending his defense secretary, who is the one who posted, quote, this is when the first bombs will definitely drop, end quote. And then posted every detail about the missile strike before it happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Should Secretary Hegseth consider his position over the Signal?
TRUMP: Hegseth is doing a great job. He had nothing to do with this.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Hegseth -- how do you bring Hegseth into it? He had nothing to do with it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: How do you bring Hegseth into it? He had nothing to do with it.
Well, just look what Hegseth wrote in the group chat on the day of the attack. Saturday, March 15th.
Time now, 11:44 ET. Weather is favorable. Just confirmed with CENTCOM. We are a go for mission launch. 1:20 -- 12:15ET, F-18s launch first strike package. 13:45, trigger based F-18 first strike window starts. Target terrorist is at his known location, so should be on time. Also, strike drones launch, MQ-9s.
It's like a copy and paste. He did not leave anything out. I mean, it literally looks like a copy and paste.
Jeffrey Goldberg, "The Atlantic" editor, right, who Mike Waltz is added to the group, says he was reading all of this 30 minutes before the bombs dropped while sitting in his car in the parking lot of Safeway, a grocery store.
So, imagine that, there's Jeffrey Goldberg in the Safeway parking lot looking at his phone, continuing to read as the carts are going by as Hegseth continues: 14:10, more F-18s launch, second strike package; 14:15, strike drones on target. This is when the first bombs will definitely drop. He puts in all caps pending earlier trigger based targets. 15:36, F-18 second strike starts. Also, first sea-based tomahawks launched.
More to follow per timeline. He then says we are currently clean on OPSEC. Clean on OPSEC, operational security?
There is a guy that you have no idea about sitting in a Safeway parking lot reading all of this. I mean, this kind of sounds like a comedy bit, right? Except, it isn't funny because that reporter in a Safeway parking lot could have been someone else.
Any of this could have been seen by someone else. Given that the phones of multiple people in the chat are known to foreign intelligence services like Iran, which backs the Houthis.
So the risk of someone seeing this exchange and shooting down American pilots -- live American pilots on this mission is a real one, because those pilots went up without question or reservation. They went up on orders. They went up on command as they should be able to do, never imagining that their strike was already published on a commercial app being read in a Safeway parking lot by a reporter as the carts go by.
Never mind someone more sinister, and most of the people in the chat had no reason to know the details, Hegseth posted. I mean, talking to sources today, one government intelligence insider was explaining that the head of the CIA would never know the strike plans. They would know a strike was approved, but the strike package, all those details, this goes then this Tomahawk, this F-18 never.
[19:03:04]
That is need to know.
Hegseth had no business posting it to this group in any setting, and yet the White House wants to play a word game on what to call the information posted in the chat by Hegseth.
Listen to what we heard today from the White House and the men and women on that text chain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There was no classified information transmitted.
PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: No classified information.
REPORTER: Was it classified, the information?
MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, the Pentagon says it was not.
TULSI GABBARD, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: No classified information was shared.
JOHN RATCLIFFE, CIA DIRECTOR: I didn't transfer any classified information.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now, that's very carefully said. Ratcliffe is correct. Technically, he did not transfer classified information.
But he was there. He sees a problem here clearly, and he doesn't want to touch it, because this argument also doesn't add up on the merits. I mean, based on the DNI's own classification tiers. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JIM HIMES (D-CT): I'm reading from your classification guidance and the criteria is information providing indication or advance warning that the U.S. or its allies are preparing an attack. Do you recall what your own guidance would suggest that that be classified?
GABBARD: I don't have the specifics in front of me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, those are the specifics. Let's just read them to you here in black and white. Quote: Information providing indication or advance warning that the U.S. or its allies are preparing an attack is considered top secret. I guess that's the mic drop moment.
Top secret is the highest level of classification that the United States government uses, right? And these were strike plans posted ahead that a guy is reading in a Safeway parking lot.
I mean, this is what former defense secretary and former CIA Director Leon Panetta tells OUTFRONT. He says, quote, this incident is a serious breach of national security. No ifs, ands, or buts when highly classified attack plans are compromised, it endangers lives, the military mission and our national security. It must be investigated. Whoever is responsible, fired and steps taken to make sure it never happens again.
And one more point, which a government intelligence insider spoke about with me today. A conversation with so many chiefs of departments, plus their staffers, is simply not part of U.S. protocol. It doesn't happen that way for a reason. Theres a chain of command because having records of what is said about U.S. missile strikes matters because the reality is, is, quote, the discipline is important. It defines America.
But those in the chat are pointing their guns at Goldberg. J.D. Vance saying its very clear Goldberg oversold what he had. Well, perhaps Vance, who shouldn't have been in that chat either, should listen to Republican Don Bacon, who told "Politico" the White House is in denial that this was not classified or sensitive data being read in a Safeway parking lot by a reporter.
Alayna Treene is OUTFRONT, live outside the White House.
And, Alayna, you're reporting on really? It seems a lot of chaos and confusion inside the White House over what happened here. And it starts with Trump.
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: That's right, Erin.
What's been very clear to me, if you watch some of the public comments the president has made in recent days, particularly some of the interviews he did yesterday and today, but also those comments that you just played in the Oval Office, one that I'm picking up on, is he doesn't have a good grasp of what signal actually is. He keeps referring to it at points, almost as if its a switchboard or a phone call that Jeffrey Goldberg, the editor, was able to stumble into.
But also, it doesn't totally seem like the briefing he has, or I should say, the information he has lines up with. What is reality? When he referenced Michael Waltz, saying he was the only one involved when he was pressed about classified information, he said, I don't know, he directed it to other people who were more involved.
And then that part about Hegseth, I think was really revealing as well, where he said Hegseth had nothing to do with this. What do you mean, Hegseth? He wasn't involved in this. And as you pointed out, he was actually the one who shared the most sensitive information on this signal chain.
So that's part of this. But what's also very telling as well is that his answers today to some of these questions were not as emphatic in support of Michael Waltz as they were in the immediate aftermath of this. When he was asked about this yesterday.
And I think that's very interesting as well, particularly when you've heard many of the other top officials who I know are all talking about a strategy on this behind the scenes about how to try and contain this story. The strategy is to deny the most egregious parts of this, to downplay its seriousness, and, of course, disparage Jeffrey Goldberg, which they have all been doing. But we didn't necessarily hear the president do that.
I think there's a lot more that is going on behind the scenes that we have to watch in certain days. We know that there's going to be some sort of review that different agencies inside the White House are conducting. That will give us a lot more information.
BURNETT: All right. Alayna, thank you very much. And such important reporting.
Let's go now to Democratic Senator Adam Schiff, who sits on the Senate Judiciary Committee, also former chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, as our viewers well know.
So, Senator, all right, here we are in this. It is an extraordinary moment. And you just heard President Trump saying this is all a witch hunt. And he does appear to be referring to signal sometimes as a like some sort of a conference call. It's a bit unclear.
[19:10:01]
What do you say to him?
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Well, President Truman was the buck stops here. Donald Trump is the buck stops anywhere but anywhere near me. That effort at deflection, I really don't know. You know, I wasn't involved. He's now claiming Hegseth wasn't involved.
It is really pathetic, but what it tells all of us, what it tells the national security professionals, what it tells people in the Pentagon, what it tells the American people is there will be no accountability in his administration. He isn't going to hold people responsible. He doesn't want to fire people. He doesn't even want to talk about it.
He wants to put this off as another witch hunt, another hoax is kind of go to deflection.
But don't look at me. Whatever you do, America, I'm not responsible. Thats just going to breed further mistakes. We can't have any confidence that this is going to be rectified.
If all of those people on that chat are basically saying, there's nothing to see here. Okay. Yeah, it should have been classified. They can't even admit that.
Jim Himes properly read the very guidance that the intelligence community gives on a discussion exactly like this one. And the DOD guidance, although Tulsi Gabbard tried to deflect, is almost exactly the same. This was heavily classified, or it should have been, and there's no escaping that.
BURNETT: Well, and, of course, there's no escaping that phones that were on this are compromised phones that this didn't go through any sort of protocol.
I'm also curious, Senator, what you make of -- there are a lot of people in this chat who should not have been there, okay? Lots of them. I mean, you don't have a conversation with staffers and people at the top with operational security attack plans. It doesn't. Thats not something the U.S. government does, at least until now. When -- when we see this.
But the vice president would not be in this chat. But the head of the CIA would not see a strike plan package, right? This is -- this would not happen.
But in all the people that were in there, there's one thing that I noticed is not there. The head of the joint chiefs, right? So, so, they're putting all this information out, but not to the operational military guy?
SCHIFF: It is very bizarre how they chose the people on this chat. It was almost as if Waltz wanted to sort of brag to this crowd of people what was going on with this operation. But you're absolutely right. There are a whole lot of people with no need to know.
It is, you know, yet another element of why this was so poorly handled, and that is they shouldn't have been talking about this on signal. It should have been highly classified. They should have had nowhere near the participants in this conversation, even in a classified space.
And then to essentially deny or try to denigrate the seriousness of this means that they're not going to address it. It is the sign of both the inexperience and incompetence of a lot of these people.
Hegseth way out of his depth. He passed by a single vote. That vote was J.D. Vance in the Senate, coming in to break the tie. That has not aged well. But more than that, you know, I look at someone like Ratcliffe who
does have at least some modicum of experience, and nowhere in that chat does he say, hey, people, we shouldn't be talking about this on a commercial app.
Tulsi Gabbard had no experience. She has no business being there either. But for -- for Ratcliffe, it was even more inexcusable because he knows better than this.
But none of them are willing to really contradict the misuse of power. There really seem like they're drunk with power, and there's a kind of arrogance about what we witness in this chat -- arrogance towards our allies, arrogance towards national security protocols that should be followed, just incompetence and arrogance, which is a dangerous mix for the country.
BURNETT: A dangerous mix in any setting, and certainly at the top, top of the U.S. government. Thank you very much, Senator.
Brad Bowman is with me now, former U.S. Army officer and Black Hawk pilot, spent about nine years advising Republican senators on the Armed Services and Foreign Relations Committees as well. Katie Drummond from "Wired" with us with new reporting, and Marc Caputo from "Axios". Also new reporting.
Brad, can I start with you, though, because in all of this, Trump says this is a -- he said it is not, quote, a big deal. As I was laying out, you know, you had Jeffrey Goldberg in the Safeway parking lot reading this. All these phones compromised by foreign governments, including Iran, could share with the Houthis, right?
It is possible. Thank God it didn't happen, but possible that something like this posted ahead of time could have resulted in the death of the American pilots who were sent up to do the job.
You have been a pilot who's been sent up, trusted the chain of command to not ever have anything like this happen. How do you respond when you hear the president say, its not a big deal as -- as a pilot with first-hand experience of putting your life on the line for a mission like this?
BRAD BOWMAN, FORMER U.S. ARMY OFFICER & BLACK HAWK PILOT: Thanks, Erin, for the opportunity to join you. You know, I'll leave the political commentary to others, but I would just focus on the following that I think some of the discussions versus attack plan versus war plan misses the most fundamental, the most important point, and that is that you should not put sensitive or classified information about a future military operation on unsecure systems and unclassified messaging apps.
[19:15:18]
Why is that? Because it makes it more likely that our adversaries will get that information and then use it to kill our service members or undermine the mission they are tasked to complete. And the response to that might be, well, that didn't happen in this case. No one got injured and the mission was just fine. Well, we should all thank the Lord that's the case. But if we don't learn the right lessons and make the right reforms, this mistake will be repeated. And we may not be so lucky next time.
BURNETT: So, Katie, as talking about these apps, these commercial apps, I know you've got new reporting at "Wired" tonight that Waltz and the White House chief of staff Susie Wiles also in this group had public Venmo accounts, which would allow anyone to see all of their friends. And I know you've got reporting on why this another commercial app here, but in this context is also a security risk.
KATIE DRUMMOND, GLOBAL EDITORIAL DIRECTOR, WIRED: Absolutely. What we revealed today is that both wiles and walls had essentially left their Venmo contact lists open to the public. So, revealing to anyone who wanted to check who was in their phone contact list, that's how this typically works. You set up a Venmo account, it gives you the option to port over all of your contacts from your phone, which would then allow an adversary or a nefarious actor to essentially have a social graph of a given individual and a searchable map of all of the people close to power, all of the people close to these individuals that they could then exploit in whatever way they saw fit.
BURNETT: Marc, in that context, the Der Spiegel reporting tonight is very relevant new reporting they have that the private contact data of some of the officials in this group is freely accessible on the Internet, freely accessible on the Internet. They say the Der Spiegel reporters were able to find cell phone numbers, email addresses and passwords belonging to some of the top officials.
What -- is Trump aware of the of the many layers of this and how bad it is?
MARC CAPUTO: I doubt he's aware of what's in Der Spiegel or the other reports. As Alayna had said earlier, he's not doing a lot of close paying attention to this. And I think what bleeds through in all of these discussions over time is these guys kind of don't care. They were kind of careless, or they were pretty careless about discussing this stuff on signal and their messaging since then has been kind of careless and kind of sloppy.
And the reality is, in the Trump mindset, the White House, they have the House and they have the Senate, and they have the numbers, and that's what counts. And this other stuff is just noise and they'll be able to deal with it.
BURNETT: So, Brad, you know, you talked about how this whole distinction they're trying to make between attack plans and war plans is completely misses the point. And -- and I think we know that every single person making that argument knows that, right? They all know that. That -- that -- that would be absurd to claim otherwise.
But what I'm curious about, Brad, is, is from the perspective of where you sit and you've advised congress people, you've advised senators. But as a pilot, do -- do those -- the pilots next time people get the go up, go, you're going to be bombing the Houthis. You're flying to do something to Hezbollah, you're flying over Saudi Arabia. Do they think twice?
BOWMAN: You know, I've -- you know, I've never been an F-18 pilot like the planes involved in these strikes, but I've worked with many patriotic fellow citizens who have and -- and let's, you know, they raise their right hand and they stand between those who want to hurt our country and us to protect us. And they trust that certain things will be true.
And they trust that, for example, that our adversaries will not have our military plans before they take off. You know, let's remember, this is not a video game. These are our fellow citizens, our neighbors who are going out and climbing into a cockpit and taking off into the sky, into enemy territory to put their lives on the line because they believe in our country and because they were ordered to do so.
The least we can do is not put the military plans, the aircraft, the munitions, the targets, the timing on unclassified messaging app and these partisan times in Washington, can we at least agree on that, please?
BURNETT: Very eloquently put, Brad.
You know, Katie, as part of this. You know, obviously what Brad just said so eloquently is, is not what we see happening in all quarters, certainly from those involved. And one of the strategies has been to blame Jeffrey Goldberg, obviously, and also to blame signal itself.
So, here's what President Trump said just a couple of moments ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If a Signal doesn't work, it could be that Signal is not very good. You know, it's a company. Maybe it's not very good. I don't know that Signal works.
[19:20:01]
I think Signal could be defective, to be honest with you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I know you've done a lot of reporting at "Wired" on signal. Youve got a new article on this attempt to blame Signal tonight. So, what have you learned?
DRUMMOND: You know, for that article, we spoke to an expert who put it better than I ever could. He said, if you hit yourself in the face with a hammer, it's not the hammer's fault. This has nothing to do with Signal and everything to do with egregious, outrageous lapses in judgment on the parts of everybody involved in that conversation.
Signal is collateral damage, essentially, to what is really about lapses in judgment. This is not about Signal. Signal is not faulty. It is not defective. It is a best in class encrypted messaging app for a general consumer user. BURNETT: Marc, as Brad says -- and Brad said so eloquently, you know,
in these partisan times, it should just be something that that everyone can agree on, that our neighbors, our fellow citizens who get in those cockpits and go up and put their lives on the line for this country, would expect some basic things, right? Some basic decency, some -- some that the plans of what they're going to do aren't posted ahead of time.
Is the gravity of -- of what he said, the gravity of that, that those pilots went up and something could have happened is that -- is that completely lost on everyone involved here?
CAPUTO: I don't -- I don't know if I would use the word lost, but they don't experience that. They're not expressing that. I mean, they believe the ends justify the means. And yeah, sure, there was a mistake and yeah, sure, there was a reporter here. And yeah, sure, the defense secretary gave all of this details.
But in the end, the operation was a success and that's what matters. And then in the -- the case of Donald Trump trashing Signal, I mean, the reality is this has probably been some of the best advertising for Signal they could ever have asked for, because this shows that the highest levels of government use that encryption app and trusted it so much that they were kind of reckless about it.
BURNETT: All right. Well, I appreciate all of you very much. And thanks so much for the conversation.
CAPUTO: Thank you.
BURNETT: All right. Fareed Zakaria is with me next to talk about what allies around the world are now doing, what they are doing, what is changing because of this breach and this administration.
Plus, Trump cashing in on a new cryptocurrency, a move that could be worth billions of dollars and one backed by the son of Trump adviser Steve Witkoff, whose recent meetings include one with Vladimir Putin. He was obviously in the chat group as well.
And Amanda Knox is our guest tonight. She's going to tell us how Monica Lewinsky has helped her.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:26:55]
BURNETT: Breaking news, President Trump dismissing the massive security breach created by his top national security officials because the operation was ultimately successful.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: There was no harm done because the attack was unbelievably successful that night.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: Fareed Zakaria, host of Fareed Zakaria GPS, is here now.
So, Fareed, what does this whole incident reveal about this administration?
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": Well, that's a -- that's a great question. Let me just begin by pointing out, Erin, that we don't know that the attack was successful. Saudi Arabia inflicted these kind of bombing attacks on the Houthis for years and were ultimately not successful in actually defanging them. So, but put that aside for a minute.
Look, what the broader issue that this this reveals is an administration that has kind of contempt for the processes and institutions of the liberal democratic state that the United States has built. You know, it's go into a department if you're DOGE, don't bother to learn anything about the process or the procedures, fire everybody.
You're at the NIH. Just stop all the grants. You know, these -- there have been these elaborate procedures by which scientists get funded. No. Stop that all. Go into the courts, and the courts ask you for documentation for reasons why you're deporting people, and they just don't provide them. They effectively defying court orders and the courts and the judges are saying, look, you're not following the normal procedures we do.
So, this is really, to my mind, the most vivid example of this complete disrespect for the institutions, the norms, the procedures by which the American state, the American democracy has been functioning. Because, you know, a lot of these people have contempt for all of this, this, this is, at the end of the day, to them, the deep state. Well, what this reveals is sometimes its the deep state has deep security procedures for a reason to protect lives.
BURNETT: You know, I'm also curious the response around the world, Fareed, has been and from European allies rather muted. Obviously, you saw Europeans in this in this thing called, you know, nobody wants to help them, God forbid, right.
They were called pathetic. And there's more where that came from. Vance's Munich speech, right. We all know that.
And yet, you know, the context is I don't know if you saw this today, but the EU put a thing out today citing rising global tensions, saying that citizens should stockpile 72 hours worth of food and other essentials in event of an emergency. You know, whether that be a war or an attack, right?
This is Europe and they're being told to do that. I mean, it's sort of you read that and you pause. In the context of this Signal chat, what are the -- the top echelons of the European government, European national security, what do they really think about this?
ZAKARIA: So, there are two things going on. One, there is a bit of surprise and bewilderment about the callousness towards these security procedures, because the U.S. has always been the gold standard on all this kind of thing.
[19:30:06]
The U.S. has always been the place where if the secretary of state, let alone the president, goes somewhere, they have to construct a SCIF, you know, a special compartmentalized security booth in which emails, phone conversations take place so that nothing is revealed because the United States is the only global superpower with military power around the world. So, there's always been the sense that the U.S. does this stuff at the ultimate standard of security.
But the larger issue, again, here is what it revealed, particularly in Vice President Vance's comments, which, you know, really, he represents the kind of ideology, if you will, of MAGA, which is that the United States for 80 years has seen itself as the protector of the free world, as the guarantor of the security of the free world. It is at the center of it, right.
But what -- what was revealed is that J.D. Vance thinks of it more like we're running a protection racket. And what we need to figure out is if were going to -- if there are more European ships that are being helped than American ships, then why don't we do a shakedown of the Europeans?
No president of either party, no vice president for 80 years would have ever said that.
BURNETT: You know, the context of this chat obviously was an attack on Houthis, right? Who have been sending missiles into Israel. Right. It's all tied with the situation in Gaza.
Theres a significant development there on the ground, which is large crowds of Palestinians in Gaza have been protesting against the war there and actually, Hamas, is the reporting here, Fareed, and this is the second day of that. Now, Hamas says, oh, this does not reflect the mood, the Palestinian overall view. They're implying that this is really an Israeli thing, that Israelis are getting this to happen.
How do you see it?
ZAKARIA: I think it's a very important development. I think if it's happening, the United States and -- you know, everybody involved should encourage it.
Look, Hamas has been terrible for Palestinians. Hamas has been one of the most important obstacles to a Palestinian state, to a two-state solution for Israel to have any degree of trust and faith in the in the idea that they could live side by side with Palestinians. Anything that weakens Hamas helps the Palestinian people. Its very important to make a distinction between the Palestinian people and Hamas, who have been misleading them for the last few decades.
BURNETT: Fareed, thank you.
ZAKARIA: Pleasure. BURNETT: And next, we have breaking news. The homeland security
secretary, Kristi Noem, right now is visiting that dangerous supermax prison where Trump says he would jail Americans, where he sent some of those migrants. We're going to give you an exclusive look.
Plus, Trump launching a new crypto coin, a move that not only benefits the Trump family, but some of his closest advisers, including his commerce secretary and his top envoy, Steve Witkoff.
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[19:37:20]
BURNETT: Breaking news, Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem in El Salvador, now touring the notorious mega prison where the U.S. is sending Venezuelan migrants. Noem also meeting with the country's president, who calls himself a dictator.
Our David Culver is OUTFRONT tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The prison sits like an isolated fortress nestled in mountainous terrain, about an hour and a half drive from the capital. Even with government officials on board with us, we're stopped a mile out.
Okay. He's going to inspect bags.
We'll get back in.
Only to hit another checkpoint.
Approaching the main gate of El Salvador's terrorism confinement center known as CECOT. our cell signals vanish.
They want to do a full search on us before we enter.
CECOT Director Belarmino Garcia greets us. Bienvenido and takes us through a rigorous security check required for every person who enters. No exceptions.
Wedding ring. So, this is like airport security on steroids. Anything that we're carrying with us.
Okay. Anything we're carrying with us has to go there. And then there's a body scan that continues on the other side.
Shoes off. This one back on.
Once cleared, we toured the vast campus, starting with the armory.
He says they have to constantly remind themselves that they're dealing with essentially the worst of the worst. And for that reason, they need to be ready for whatever risks they might face. More than a thousand security personnel, guards, police and military
are stationed on site, living in barracks like sleeping quarters. It's all kept meticulously clean.
The campus is estimated to be about the size of seven football stadiums, at least three visible rings of security encompass the complex. The outermost, an 11-meter-high concrete wall that extends three more meters with electrified fencing.
UNIDENTIFEID MALE: Fifteen thousand volts.
CULVER: Fifteen thousand volts.
Inmates are assigned to one of eight sectors, each roughly the size of an airplane hangar. Basically, prisons within the prison. Once inside, it's said to be a life sentence. They'll never leave their assigned sector.
All right. We're going to go in here.
We go inside sector four.
Immediately, you're hit with the piercing gaze of dozens of inmates, locking onto you. Each sector holds more than two dozen large cells, roughly 80 inmates per cell. But that can fluctuate. Officials refused to give us the exact prison population, but sources tell us it's between 10,000 and 20,000, with the capacity to hold up to 40,000 prisoners.
Inside each cell, toilets, a concrete basin for bathing and a barrel of drinking water, several rows of metal bunk beds, no mattresses, no sheets, no privacy.
[19:40:08]
Most bear the markings of the gangs that held this nation hostage for decades, unleashing brutal violence.
One gang member tells us he's lost count of how many people he's killed. Somewhere between 20 and 30.
Officials say others raped, tortured and extorted innocent residents for years.
The terror gangs brought to El Salvador is why Garcia says CECOT exists. The luxuries once afforded to prisoners in this country, from cell phones to lavish parties, all stripped away under President Nayib Bukele.
Prison officials say basic nutrition needs are met with three daily meals, usually beans, rice and tortillas. Meat is never served.
For 30 minutes a day, they're let out of their cells for brief exercise or bible study, but still kept inside the sector. There are private rooms for inmates to attend court hearings or meet with attorneys, virtually. No other visitors or messages from the outside are allowed in. Theres also a clinic in each sector for medical visits.
For inmates who get violent with other prisoners or guards --
We're going to close the door. I just want to get a sense of -- wow.
Solitary confinement awaits. They can be in here for up to 14 days with only a sliver of light from the outside seeping in.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CULVER (on camera): The homeland security secretary just wrapping up a visit to that very facility, Erin. And we know critics have pointed out the concern over not only the harsh conditions, but also the lack of due process for many of those inmates.
But as you and I have talked about over a series of reports here on OUTFRONT, Salvadorans, they look at this and they see this as the only way to have countered the brutality that existed for decades within their country. So, they see CECOT as a symbol of newfound freedom. But it does seem that Noem, as well, is endorsing the prison, saying that its a tool in the tool kit for those that commit crimes against America.
BURNETT: Yeah, it's fascinating to see what she's going to think, what that means when she comes back, having been on the ground in those very rooms and places that that you were. We'll see how much of it she -- she actually got to see.
Thanks so much, David, as always.
And next, Trump has a new crypto project. This is a big one. It could make him billions of dollars. President. United States making billions of dollars while in office. It also could be extremely beneficial for some of his closest advisers, but many crypto supporters are not on board with Trump's new venture. We're going to explain all about it.
Plus, Amanda Knox, who was wrongfully convicted of murder in Italy, four years in prison, opening up tonight here about how Monica Lewinsky has helped her adjust to life.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:46:04]
BURNETT: All right. Breaking news, Trump has just announced a sweeping new tariff on cars.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: This is very modest. And what were going to be doing is a 25 percent tariff on all cars that are not made in the United States. If they're made in the United States, there's absolutely no tariff. Business is coming back to the United States so that they don't have to pay tariffs.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: The move could make cars dramatically more expensive. Trump has obviously caused economic confusion and some chaos, as he has been benefiting on his own with a new cryptocurrency.
This cryptocurrency is backed by a group linked to the family of his top foreign envoy, Steve Witkoff, a man who was in the signal chat group at the center of the security breach who just returned from Russia, where he met with Putin.
Tom Foreman is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONALD TRUMP, JR., WORLD LIBERTY FINANCIAL: I think it's the future of our financial systems, and I want to make sure that's domiciled in America, done by Americans.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There was Donald Trump Jr. crowing about Trump family plans to sell a new crypto coin called a stablecoin for its steady value linked to another currency like the U.S. dollar. It will be offered by World Liberty Financial, a company which was started by the Trumps last September and is also linked to Steve Witkoff, a close Trump adviser whose most recent overseas trip included a meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin.
Here is Witkoff son Zach, co-founder of World Liberty Financial.
ZACH WITKOFF, WORLD LIBERTY FINANCIAL: We view stablecoins as an integral part of not only crypto, but the entire financial ecosystem.
FOREMAN: Crypto backers push tens of millions into Donald Trump's reelection amid his promises to aggressively help their industry.
TRUMP: We will ensure that the future of crypto and the future of bitcoin will be made in America.
FOREMAN: Jeff John Roberts covers crypto for "Fortune".
JEFF JOHN ROBERTS, FINANCE AND CRYPTO EDITOR, FORTUNE: It's a chance for the industry to put its best foot forward and show some technology you know that can be useful, that can help people.
TRUMP: Bitcoin I just seems like a scam.
FOREMAN: But Trump's position is a big flip flop. For a long time, he dismissed this electronic way to invest, collect and exchange virtual money as too risky, echoing concerns about criminal organizations using it to secretly move and launder money all around the world. He posted: Unregulated crypto assets can facilitate unlawful behavior, including drug trade and other illegal activity.
But now, he's all in, with meme coins issued in his name and that of First Lady Melania Trump. With crypto investors as advisors, including Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick and a crypto summit at the White House, Trump's administration has eased off investigating and regulating the business, and he's ordered the government to start a crypto stash similar to the nation's gold reserve.
Democratic lawmakers call it a naked attempt to line Trump's pockets. Such a reserve, one wrote to the Treasury, provides no discernible benefit to the American people, but would significantly enrich the president and his donors.
Even some crypto fans are squirming at the potential for a conflict of interest that could be worth billions to the incumbent president.
ROBERTS: They're very happy Trump came in and they want sort of, you know, a fair playing field for crypto. But the optics of some of this just don't look very good.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN (on camera): We don't' know that anything has been done wrong. But we do know this. The mere possibility that a president and his family and his friends could benefit from his influence has been a great concern to Republican lawmakers. But that was when Joe Biden was president. Now, they're not saying anything -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right, Tom, thank you very much.
[19:50:00]
And next, we're going to talk to Amanda Knox, who was wrongfully convicted of murder. She served four years in prison. She talks about that and her bond now with Monica Lewinsky, who texted her just before we spoke.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight, Amanda Knox applying what she has learned to a divided political world. One of the most notorious murder -- convicted people of murder in the world is my guest. And Knox spent four years in an Italian prison after being wrongfully convicted in the 2007 stabbing death of her roommate, Meredith Kercher.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, FORMER CNN HOST: It's being called the trial of the century in Italy.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: American Amanda Knox, convicted in Italy tonight.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A U.S. coed on trial for murder in an Italian courtroom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: American college student Amanda Knox, labeled Foxy Knoxy by the tabloids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OUTFRONT now, Amanda Knox, co-host of the podcast "Labyrinths" and the author of her new book, "Free: My Search for Meaning".
And, Amanda, as I said when we sat down here, its incredible to be sitting with you. I mean, you are a face everybody knows. Everyone in America knows a turn that you would have never anticipated in a million years your life taking and yet it did.
You get exonerated in 2015. And now, as I said, you've got a podcast, you've written books, you've gotten married, you have children, you have built a life.
AMANDA KNOX, WRONGFULLY CONVICTED OF MURDER: I've been busy.
BURNETT: That would be recognizable to anybody who had not been wrongly accused of murdering their roommate and spent four years in Italian prison, right? And yet you also have that.
I mean, so how do you answer that question of now what?
KNOX: Well, I look around at the world and I see where the broken pieces are and where my broken pieces fit into those broken pieces.
And I want to start by saying that, like, I didn't come out of prison being like, I have a purpose now. I came out of prison wanting my life back, and I realized that my life that I had been hoping to get back didn't exist anymore. And I went to a very, very dark, unexpectedly dark place, which is really common in wrongful conviction cases. But I think also in a lot of just trauma cases, anytime someone goes through a life altering trauma, they are left on the other side of it going --
FOREMAN: Well, maybe you're sitting in prison thinking, when I get my life back. And then you did, and it's and you couldn't.
KNOX: Yes, exactly. And like, just the, the existential crisis of that. And I think when I think about now like, so I went on this huge journey and I arrived at a certain place, I met with my prosecutor. I came out of that going, oh my God, I finally did something that I think speaks to who I am more than anything that happened to me, could speak to who I am. I have a story to tell. I have learned things. I have perspective.
And I as I wrote this book, I also realized putting all this like connective tissue together, that I'm immersed in a world that is full of the kinds of problems that I was facing.
[19:55:08]
And I have kind of resolved for myself. What do I mean by that? A divided world where people cannot -- cannot bring themselves to admit that they made a mistake. A world where people can't agree on what counts as a fact or not. A world where people feel an immense sense of unease with their place in the world, and they don't feel like they have a say over who they are.
And so, I feel like, if anything, my hope is that my strange and wacky journey in some extreme circumstance actually really speaks to people and makes them feel really seen. BURNETT: Well, that is where people are right now. Those things that
you just described, almost everybody is feeling that in some way.
KNOX: Yeah.
BURNETT: Obviously, no -- very few people can tangibly talk about the trauma that you went through --
KNOX: And I get that.
BURNETT: -- and for you to frame it in that way.
KNOX: Well, and I get that. So, like here's one of my weirdest, like things that I realized was when I was in prison, I was sad and I was, you know, unfulfilled.
But it made sense when I got out of prison and I felt angry and sad and like I had no place in the world, I couldn't place why you felt I felt that way because I had everything back technically, that I should have had. I was free, but I wasn't free. And I think that's a huge sort of like emotional crisis that everybody can feel like we don't feel free.
And so, what do you do about it? Well, I made a bunch of mistakes, but then ultimately, I made a decision to trust myself and trust my gut and build a bridge to make a connection with a human being that I had every reason to run away from.
BURNETT: The prosecutor.
KNOX: Yes.
BURNETT: The person who is responsible for your four years in prison?
KNOX: Oh, yes, very much responsible.
BURNETT: So one of the things you write about, you know, and you and I were talking about, I remember back earlier in my career when your story took off and it was every day. It was the lead of the "Today" show. It was the front of every newspaper.
And it was because you were a woman. It was because you were a beautiful young woman, and people just. Thats why you're a household name, even now.
And you talk about how you were treated. I mean, it's incomprehensible in its scale, sort of the way that you were out there. I mean, just to remind anybody who has forgotten that time. Here we go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: American college student Amanda Knox labeled Foxy Knoxy by the tabloids.
We already heard reports that Knox was doing cartwheels and splits before her interrogation. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And all-American girl, a coed dubbed the angel
faced killer on trial in an Italian courtroom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Italian police are still trying to piece together a horrific night of sex, drugs and murder.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KNOX: And that said it all right there, didn't it? Sex, drugs and murder.
BURNETT: Foxy --
KNOX: Foxy Knoxy, this woman hating woman. I think that ultimately is what it all came down to. Even more than, like, the sex and the drugs and the murder. It was this fantasy about sexualized women hating each other and ripping each other to shreds for the sake of male attention.
BURNETT: Feminism you call it.
KNOX: Feminism, yes, something that is a male fantasy, I believe, and which is not representative of my experience with women at all, and something that I really push back against, because I think that ultimately, the product that was sold that had my name and face attached to it was feminism.
BURNETT: And you have become friends, friends with other women that you feel are a victim of that. I mean, you talk about Lorena Bobbitt, you talk about Monica Lewinsky.
KNOX: Absolutely.
BURNETT: Monica has become a friend. And, you know, you write it feels good to hate bad people. Theres a special kind of hate reserved for bad women.
KNOX: Yes.
BURNETT: How important is a friendship with someone like her where you could connect over something? I mean, how deep does a friendship like that become?
KNOX: Well, it's especially deep for me because she went through it before me, right? Like she has been through the gantlet. I was a child when she was first being vilified and amplified as this sexual demon in the press.
And I remember just sort of casually absorbing that message. And I would have thought, oh, yeah, Monica Lewinsky, the blowjob lady. Like, it just never would occur to me that she is a much more -- full human being who was just a woman who fell in love with a powerful man like, and then got railroaded, right?
Like, so when I encountered her later and I realized I did the same thing to Monica that everyone is doing to me. And then I got a chance to meet her and her immediately response to me was, are you okay? Because I know you're not okay.
And like, can we talk? And let's talk about how you can be okay and how your message matters, but also like you're not at anyone's mercy. And so just hearing her -- I mean, she's texted me today just letting -- letting me know that I can try to remember that I have this, like, glowing golden light around me anytime I'm talking to someone and I'm not -- I'm not on trial anymore, which is such an amazing thing to hear from somebody who, like, knows it and who has been through it and who is reclaiming her space and her voice, and -- and really platforming me to do the same.
BURNETT: All right. Amanda Knox.
And thanks so much to all of you for joining us.
"AC360" starts now.
