Return to Transcripts main page
Erin Burnett Outfront
Musk Sits For First Interview With DOGE Team Amid Cuts; Setback For Trump; Zelenskyy; Putin Will Die Soon. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired March 27, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:15]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Breaking news, the DOGE makeover. Elon Musk appearing just moments ago with the men tasked to slash the federal government. Only these are not the young men that Trump and Musk have been talking about.
So, breaking, Trump's setback in court. The administration ordered tonight to preserve those sensitive messages from that group, chat about military strikes. Do they even have the messages, though?
And, quote, Putin will die soon. That is the quote from Ukraine's president tonight. So, what is the deal with Putin's health right now?
Let's go OUTFRONT.
(MUSIC)
BURNETT: And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news, Elon Musk and the men he wants you to see appearing just moments ago on Fox to defend his cost cutting agency. Musk was there, along with a group.
Let's just show you. We want to pay close attention to who Musk is surrounding himself with for this interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELON MUSK, TECH BILLIONAIRE: We want to reduce the spending by eliminating waste and fraud, reduce the spending by 15 percent, which seems really quite achievable. The government is not -- not efficient, and there's a lot of -- a lot of waste and fraud. So, we feel confident that a 15 percent reduction can -- can be done without affecting any of the critical government services. We are cutting the waste and fraud in real time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So, you see, from that side shot, I mean, it was, you know, it was like a trial or something. These are not kids, though. These are middle aged and all but one of them a white man. They include Steve Davis, CEO of Elon Musk's Boring Company, a tunnel
drilling company. Joe Gebbia, the Airbnb co-founder. Brad Smith, a health care entrepreneur, and others.
But it's interesting, very interesting that these are the men surrounding Musk, because what we have been told over the past few months by Trump and Musk again and again and again, is that these are the people heading up DOGE cuts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The people at DOGE -- these are young, often young, but super brilliant people.
Many more have been found out and exposed and swiftly terminated by a group of very intelligent, mostly young people headed up by Elon.
MUSK: So, thank you to the DOGE team, who are literally getting death threats and being accosted. And you know, these are -- a lot of them are just kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: A lot of them are just kids.
So, who are these young, super brilliant, very intelligent people, a lot of them who are just kids, people like the 19-year-old who goes by "Big Balls". He's had access to a number of departments, including Homeland Security, FEMA, Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agencies.
Then, there's a 21 year old Akash Bhabha, reportedly waiting -- trying to get clearance to access Social Security data, Social Security numbers. A 25-year-old engineer from X who, thanks to the approval of a federal judge, briefly had access to the Treasury Department system that managed federal payments and Social Security.
Theres a lot more where that came from. You know, the ones who are pounding on the doors and going in, those aren't the guys you just saw there. They're people like "Big Balls". And Musk knows that's a problem.
Here are some of the headlines that perhaps drove Musk to do an interview with exactly none of those teens and young men, the young, inexperienced engineers aiding Elon Musk's government takeover. Musk's secret DOGE goon squad, who are all under 26. DOGE kids changes to Social Security revealed by head of agency. DOGE bros take aim at Hot Springs National Park.
It all seems to make, you know, appearing with seven other guys around your own age look a bit like propaganda.
I mean, Steve Davis was sitting there with Musk in this interview. Steve Davis, a really accomplished guy. His company just signed a massive deal to build a high-speed underground tunnel system in Dubai, the Boring Company. That's a really big deal. And you know, who knows why they got that deal with Musk next to
Trump? Thats not the point we're making. The point we're making is Steve Davis has a day job.
And by the way, so does "Big Balls". "Big Balls'" day job is going into agencies every single day, like the Department of Homeland Security. And those young men are not done. Just today, the Department of Health and Human Services slashing 10,000 jobs on top of another 10,000 who were already pushed out.
That brings total cuts at Health and Human Services to 25 percent. Imagine that, a company just coming out in one fell swoop, 25 percent a quarter of their workforce gone.
Alayna Treene is OUTFRONT outside the White House to begin our coverage tonight.
And, Alayna, what we saw in that interview, Musk and seven men are experienced men with long resumes is part of a plan to convey a very specific message about Musk and DOGE, and a different one than Musk has so far been sending.
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Absolutely. I mean, the imagery that you pointed out, Erin, is, you know, pretty remarkable to see, the fact that they're all men, all older men. I think your point about, you know, none of the 19-year-olds being in the room, it shows that they are trying to be more taken -- taken more seriously, I think, for this interview.
[19:05:08]
But I also believe and what I've been hearing is, you know, we know that Musk has said that he wants DOGE to be more transparent, but really, we haven't seen a lot of that transparency, a lot of the criticism that we've heard about DOGE so far and what they've been doing is that a lot of these cuts, a lot of their actions, a lot of them going in those 19 year olds going into these different agencies is one of the criticisms is that it's been done in the dark, and that they haven't been that public with it. And I think that's part of why they chose to do this interview.
Another thing I noticed as well, just the mention of all men in that room. You know, Amy Gleason was named the acting director of DOGE. What was named from, you know, USDS. She was nowhere to be seen in that room either. And so that's very notable as well.
But one of the moments that I picked up on that Bret Baier asked Elon Musk was, you know, to answer for some of the criticism, particularly the criticism about it being, you know, them shooting from the hip that instead of its ready, fire and then aim. And he said, you know, that's not how we're operating, that we aren't shooting from the hip.
However, I would remind you that we've seen DOGE make a lot of mistakes so far for one of those examples. You know, when they fired and then had to try to rehire nuclear scientists. I mean, so we didn't get a lot of, you know, some of that candidness in this interview, but real takeaway to me is that were actually seeing some of the people that Elon Musk is working with, some of the people who have been affected by these cuts, hearing them for the first time. But again, a very carefully picked group of people that they chose to show.
BURNETT: Yeah, very, very much so. All right, Alayna, thank you very much, reporting from the White House.
Kate Conger is with us now, "New York Times" reporter covered Musk exclusively and extensively, co-wrote the book "Character Limit: How Elon Musk Destroyed Twitter". Former Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty is with me, along with Jamal Simmons. And we're all here, of course, in New York.
So, Kate, since you're the one playing away, let's start with you. You see that room. I guess you and I are the only two women present anywhere here in this whole conversation. No offense, guys, but, I mean, we just had all those guys sitting there.
Okay, Kate, but, you know, it's all men. It's men in suits. So they -- they actually, you know, must dress differently than he normally does. And none of the young people that Musk has said are doing all of these tasks and jobs and that they have so publicly, you know, prided themselves on in these agencies. So, is this really damage control for Musk?
KATE CONGER, REPORTER, "NEW YORK TIMES": Yeah. I mean, I think the people that were seeing Musk surround himself with in this interview are all people who he has known and worked closely with for many years. So, these are the people who he is trusting to direct some of the operations of DOGE. But they're not the people that are showing up necessarily at these agencies every day, getting behind the keyboards and affecting change there.
And so, there's a level of filtering that's going on from the information that's happening on the ground in government, and coming up to Elon Musk.
BURNETT: So, Governor, Musk, you know, went around with a chainsaw, right. The whole -- the whole thing was they were proud of somebody who would go around with a name like "Big Balls", right? That was the whole thing. That was their whole -- that was their whole M.O.
We're cool with that. We're cool with the chainsaw. We're not going to dress up or fly with our stomachs hanging out, right? Thats how we roll.
Now it's very, very different. So, he's asked about DOGE being sloppy, about shooting from the hip. And here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MUSK: We actually want to be careful in the cuts. So, we want to measure twice, if not thrice and cut once. And actually, that is -- that is our approach. They may characterize it as shooting from the hip, but it is anything but that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: They say to judge people by what they do and not what they say. What he's done so far is not that. Is this going to be a shift? I mean, do you think that this is anything more than words?
TIM PAWLENTY (R), FORMER MINNESOTA GOVERNOR: Well, we can take it for what it is, which is today's presentation. I watched it. It was well done. It was reassuring to see more seasoned enterprise management leaders in that group commenting from a perspective of discernment, judgment, experience. Thats a good thing.
BURNETT: Yeah.
PAWLENTY: Including a rocket scientist, including a co-founder of Airbnb, and the tone and temper of the discussion was thoughtful, measured, and pretty persuasive. They highlighted the federal government spends $7 trillion. They take in five. Thats a $2 trillion deficit. They want to cut it down by 1 trillion, 15 percent reduction.
And they had great examples of government waste, and they recommitted to measuring twice and cutting once, or as Elon said, cutting, measuring thrice. We don't say thrice in Minnesota.
But nonetheless, it was a better presentation. Reassuring. I will say their procedure has been sloppy and they can clean that up and it will be better going forward. His favorability ratings have dipped a little, so this was needed.
And then as to the 19 and 20 year olds running around, guess what? Silicon Valley is mostly run or managed or processed by that. And so is our federal government at the staff level.
[19:10:00]
BURNETT: So, so, Jamal, I'm curious though, because a lot of what we've heard from Musk, right. Let's take the State of the Union. What did Trump choose to present was a bunch of talking about waste, fraud and abuse.
And, you know, a bunch of dead people just listing how many dead people there were receiving Social Security benefits. That was just a completely inaccurate reading of what it was. It was just completely false, right? So, all of that we need, we can just cut it didn't exist. Right?
Have they -- are they solving that problem?
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You can't believe anything that comes out of their mouths, right? Like it's really hard. I think the American public was in the mood for change. They were in the mood to fix some of the problems.
They're in the mood to find waste, fraud and abuse. You can't find $4 trillion or $2 trillion of waste, fraud and abuse. But you can find some. The problem with this is that they spent the last couple of months
being reckless, going around with the chainsaw, firing FAA staff. When you've got airplanes that are in trouble, firing nuclear scientists, when people know we have a nuclear arsenal that has to be maintained. That's the problem.
And then what else happened in the last week, the national security team got caught trading battle plans on an unsecure app, right? And so, what this all looks like it's not -- maybe it's not just Elon Musk. The American public may be asking the question.
It's not just Elon Musk. Maybe this is how the entire government is being run. And it's not just that were fixing it, it's that they're reckless and they're breaking it. I think that is probably what the White House is up to is trying to shore up the entire system, not just Elon Musk and DOGE.
BURNETT: So, so, Kate, the other thing about the imagery that stands out, and Alayna mentioned this, you know, and I joked about it, but it is, of course, very serious. There was an entire room of men. I believe there was one of them who was not white.
But the person, as Alayna pointed out, who's supposed to be the acting administrator of DOGE, you know, government legacy employee. But nonetheless, they've said this is her job. They've said her name, Amy Gleason, wasn't even there, right? Wasn't even there.
I know one of the people who is next to Musk, though, as we look at this image, Steve Davis, is someone you have done a lot of reporting on, so you know him well. He's worked with Musk for more than 20 years. So, you know what more can you tell us about him or what? Maybe his real role is in all of this?
CONGER: Well, I thought it was really interesting. When he was introduced, he was asked if he was the chief operating officer of DOGE, and he backtracked from that and said, oh, I'm just part of the team. But the reality is, is that Steve Davis has been the person who's really calling the shots for DOGE and really the go between for Elon and the rest of the staff.
And so, I think his presence there speaks to the fact that Amy Gleason is in a named role, but is not necessarily actually making the decisions behind DOGE. And, you know, Steve's role here is also one that's very interesting. Steve ran cost cutting at Twitter now X for Elon after he took it over and made very severe cuts there and was really pushing the charge to continue doing layoffs well after the company had already eliminated 80 percent of the staff.
Musk has even referred to him as a very severe cost cutter and said that there needs to be a limit to the work that Steve Davis does. And so, it is interesting that Musk is saying now were taking a more measured approach, and yet the person who's leading these cuts is someone who is not known for that kind of approach.
BURNETT: Yeah. I mean, that seems to be the bottom line here, Jamal, right? I mean, the goal is still the goal. And I know that, you know, he's trying to be more measured. He's trying to be more calm. Those are good things, right?
SIMMONS: Yeah.
BURNETT: But the belief that they came in with was the images that Elon Musk has put out, images of, you know, it's like -- it's like watching the Lord of the Rings, you know, going out and getting Social Security documents from some sort of a vault, right, mocking the entire system.
SIMMONS: Here's the question that arises to me, why are they being so secretive about this?
Bret Baier asked them, are you going to release a report? And Musk said, oh, well, I don't know about that. He kind of mealy mouthed his way around that after he said he's only going to be there for 130 days, but apparently, there's not going to be a report about what they did.
The second question was about A.I. He asked him, oh, are you going to replace some of this with A.I.? And then they sort of changed the subject and started talking about something else.
This is what people are worried about, one, who's going to have accountability for what they did. And also, they got rid of a bunch of inspector generals. And then two, are they going to replace a lot of these human beings with A.I.? And who owns that A.I.? And is that A.I. connected to Elon Musk's A.I.? There are a lot of really big questions here that I think the American public deserve answers to.
BURNETT: Yeah, and it's interesting, the whole thing about a report, you know, I'm not going to say what Elon Musk really thinks, but it is clear from the way he would present himself that his view of a government report would be, what a waste of time. I'm just going to get the job done. Why do I need to do a report? I'm going to do the why would I have to do that?
But it is those processes that define government, the record keeping, the fact that you know who did what, when.
PAWLENTY: Of course, Erin. And we need record keeping, but we don't need it to be from the 1950s.
[19:15:00]
One of the examples they used today was in fact a vault in Pennsylvania that was, you know, 15 stacks of paper.
BURNETT: Yeah.
PAWLENTY: That was the Federal Employee Retirement System. And it hasn't changed since 1950. They can only do 8000 a month or a year. That should all be digitally digitized. It should all be put on an automatic system.
We need automation. The government is on the cutting edge of obsolescence in way too many things. This is a healthy process. It is needed.
For every dollar the federal government spends, they don't have basically $0.30 of it. That $0.30 has piled up year after year after year, and we are going bankrupt.
And so, if not this, we need to get serious about cutting. And I think this is long overdue.
SIMMONS: Government also has to be fair.
PAWLENTY: Yeah.
SIMMONS: This needs to be efficient, but it needs to be fair. And we have government not because it acts like a business. We have government to do the things that business won't do. And I think that's an important thing that must.
PAWLENTY: It hasn't been done. I mean, how did the old way work?
SIMMONS: I mean, you were in government. I mean, the government --
PAWLENTY: How was it working? We're going broke.
SIMMONS: In education, are we going to have health care?
PAWLENTY: Yes, yes.
SIMMONS: You know, people who have broadband. Is it efficient to put broadband into a holler where there are 15 people who still live there? And you got to bring a telephone line? But no, but we decided that it makes sense for people to have access to telecommunications wherever they are in the country. Thats why we have --
PAWLENTY: Until you go bankrupt, until you go bankrupt, and then it doesn't work anymore.
SIMMONS: Well, I'm not sure we're on the verge of bankruptcy. We could tax us a little bit more. I think the government will be fine.
(LAUGHTER)
BURNETT: And of course, then that raises so many questions about, you know, who's -- who's in the room and does the what the decision maker looks like -- race, gender, age, all of it. How much does that matter?
All right. Thank you all very much.
And next, the breaking news, Elon Musk now taking on Democratic Senator Mark Kelly just moments ago. And Senator Kelly is going to be here. He'll hear it. He'll hear him.
And Zelenskyy just predicting that Putin will die soon. Those are his exact words. So, what exactly does he mean? Well, the Kremlin tonight is responding.
And the invitations are out. Amazon founder Jeff Bezos gearing up for what's being called the wedding of the century. Harry Enten is going to tell us something we don't know.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:21:23]
BURNETT: Breaking news, Elon Musk doubling down on defending, calling Democratic Senator Mark Kelly, who is a retired navy veteran who served in operation Desert Storm, a traitor for sticking up for Ukraine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MUSK: Well, I think somebody should be should care about the interests of the United States above the interests of another country. And if they don't, they're a traitor.
BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS HOST: Yeah, but he's a decorated veteran, a former astronaut, a sitting U.S. senator.
MUSK: That doesn't mean he's -- it's okay for him to put the interests of another country above America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Okay. Well, you saw that. And, you know, you saw the look on Bret Baier's face. I mean, he made the point. Musk faced widespread criticism for calling Senator Kelly a traitor, which he did on Twitter in response to a thread where Kelly said it's important for the United States to stand with Ukraine and that any deal to end the war, quote, can't be a giveaway to Putin.
Senator Kelly is now OUTFRONT as -- as you just heard Bret Baier report, he does sit on the Armed Services and Intelligence Committees. He is a retired navy captain.
And Senator Kelly, here we are. You heard what Elon Musk said, defending, calling you a traitor, making his explanation. At this point, what do you say?
SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): Well, I don't even know if he deserves a response, but what I will say is that I've spent an entire career standing up for our country, defending our country, flying in combat over Iraq, flying in space on the space shuttle, serving in the United States Senate. My entire life has been about serving this country.
And I always stand with the best interest of our nation. And I will tell you this, Erin, standing with our allies and standing up for democracy is in the best interest of the United States. And when you consider -- I mean, who is Elon standing with at this point? A bunch of billionaires.
I mean, it seems to me that some folks in the administration sort of switched sides here. I would put Elon at this point in the category of being much closer to Russia on this issue, this specific issue in a war against one of our -- with one of our allies, against one of our adversaries. I want this thing to end as much as anybody. But he throws this
"traitor" word around, at least with regards to me, fairly freely. I don't think he's a serious guy, and he hasn't given this -- given this a lot of thought.
BURNETT: Well, I mean, it's not a serious word, obviously, to use. I mean, it is a serious word, but in the context of you, I mean, it's I understand your point about being uncertain as to whether even reply to it, but -- but you have to in the sense that he is now the right hand man in the -- in the -- in the White House, right? I mean, because of who he is.
KELLY: He -- I think it's fair to say this guy is the second most powerful person in the country at this point, and he's firing veterans. He's randomly firing government employees who did not deserve to get fired. He calls Social Security a Ponzi scheme. He's trying to create some room in the budget to give a big giant tax cut to billionaires and multimillionaires.
I mean, that's what he's up to. And he's an unelected, unexperienced -- inexperienced, at least when it comes to regard to the federal government and what he's trying to accomplish here. He's an unelected billionaire.
[19:25:00]
And I think he needs to stay in his -- his own lane making rockets, making cars. He also might be a little upset that I sold his car.
BURNETT: Well, I know, I know, you sold his car. And, you know, and in that, you know --
KELLY: And by the way, Erin, I sold -- I sold his -- I sold the car after he called me a traitor the first time.
BURNETT: Right, right. Well, I mean, I guess so now -- I don't want to make light of it, but -- but I will say, in that sense, Senator, as you're well aware, you're -- you're lucky there are a lot of people who may feel that they want to do that for -- for their political reasons. And they can't right, because they -- they can't get another car. I mean, it -- it puts people in a really complicated situation.
I want to ask you in the context of, of who you are, your resume, your record and the committees that you serve on about that group chat, you know, a federal judge ordered the Trump administration to preserve the app messages that they had sent about military strike plans. So, they came around that they had to preserve them.
Now, Russia's speaking out about that, you know, to your point about Russia. Here's what we're hearing from there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OLGA SKABAEVA, RUSSIAN STATE TV HOST (through translator): The main American scandal, Trump's national security advisor Waltz deliberately or accidentally, added editor in chief of the U.S. magazine, "The Atlantic". And I draw your attention to this, to the work chat of the nation's top officials. We want to get into the chat about Ukraine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: It was like mocking. And that was the real risk. And the reason I ask you this, Senator, they want to get into that chat. You know, we know that the cell phones of many of the individuals and that are compromised. So maybe Iran could have been in a chat about Houthis, in which case they could have actually intercepted this and killed American pilots.
That -- that is something that could have happened. It didn't, thank God, but it could have. So, do you think what happened here, that these war planes were sent out so cavalierly and American pilots could have died, does that make people think twice? The men and women who are getting into those cockpits and going up.
KELLY: Erin, I've planned strikes from -- on an aircraft carrier. I've flown off an aircraft carrier 39 times on combat missions defending this country. When you plan a mission, the most closely held information is the timing when you're going to launch, where you're going, un this case, Yemen, and when you're going to get there, time on target, weapon systems you're carrying. In this case, Pete Hegseth shared MQ-9, Tomahawk, F-18, all that information is the most sensitive information we have.
And any adversary would want to get that information. It could have made its way to Yemen. It didn't in this case, we -- we dodged a really awful potential outcome.
Sure, there are pilots that are nervous about the leadership in the Department of Defense, and that's why I called for the secretary of defenses resignation. And if he doesn't resign, I think the president is in his rights and should fire him, dismiss him. When he was nominated for this position and went through the confirmation process.
I sit on the armed services committee very quickly. It became clear to me that he was not qualified for this, and we're about 60-something days into this administration. And when you put unqualified people in really hard jobs, you get a really bad outcome. And that's what we saw this week.
BURNETT: Senator Kelly, I appreciate your time. Thank you.
KELLY: Thank you.
BURNETT: I want to go now to the former Trump White House lawyer, Ty Cobb.
So, Ty, you know where the senator finished? We were talking about the order that came from Judge Boasberg that orders the Trump administration to preserve the group chat. All the messages that were in it.
Now, we know that Jeffrey Goldberg did, right. We know that he preserved them because he published them in "The Atlantic" that he was forced to publish them. Wasn't his initial intent. But the issue for the government is whether they can even comply with
this order, right? That perhaps the reason they were using signal was the reason that people used signal, which is that messages disappear and that that would be intentional. Tell me what you mean.
COBB: That's a very important point, Erin. And if you'll -- if you'll allow me a minute, I just want to say it's a difficult to follow a class act like Senator Kelly, I want to apologize on behalf of all sane Americans that he has to listen to that slander.
But yes, on your point, what Judge Boasberg did today was basically order the government to do what the law already requires which is to preserve those records. Everybody on that group chat had an obligation under the Federal Records Act and the Presidential Records Act, you know, to transfer that text chain to their government accounts and preserve it under those statutes. I think it'll be interesting perhaps telling whether those whether those records were preserved.
And keep in mind that with regard to Goldberg's thread that he preserved, he, he, he came in late and opted out early once he realized what was -- what was -- what was going on.
[19:30:04]
So, he doesn't have the entire, you know, string. He only has the string that, you know, he was captured during the time that he had. It'll be fascinating to see, you know, the additional classified information that was put out there on that on secure server and string if, if these people actually did honor the law and preserve it.
BURNETT: Right, which again, I just point out, I mean, maybe they did and maybe they didn't, but the point of using that app is that it doesn't retain messages. That that's the reason people use it is for is for that particular attribute.
COBB: Exactly.
BURNETT: So, Judge Boasberg is the same judge who Trump has called to be impeached after he halted his deportation flights. And I know you've pointed out this is also the judge who released the Hillary Clinton emails and a whole host of other things that that were very pro-Trump.
So, the argument is, is, is silly in its essence, but Trump continues to do it. He posted overnight, in part, how disgraceful is it that Judge James -- judge he puts in quotes -- James Boasberg has just been given a fourth Trump case, something which is statistically impossible. There is no way for a Republican, especially a Trump Republican, to win before him. He's highly conflicted. There must be an immediate investigation of this rigged system.
Again, I pointed out some of his record, and there's a lot more where it came from. When I mentioned the Hillary Clinton emails. Boasberg got this case, just to be clear from a random draw.
And you remember Judge Cannon, right? Aileen Cannon, 26 judges in Florida. She gets randomly assigned to Trump's classified documents case. She gets two cases in a row of 26. They go, this is statistically impossible.
And yet it happened. In that case, it was in his favor. We never heard a word about it.
COBB: Exactly. I mean, you know, but this is characteristic of, you know the president that if somebody does something that he approves of, they're brilliant and, you know, highly regarded, if somebody does something that's an obstacle for him, you know, they're, you know, a liberal, a radical, a ne'er-do-well, a thug, you know, whatever.
You know, it's like, you know, he's got -- he's got an insult or five for almost anything that he gets caught doing. For example, remember when Mar-a-Lago got searched, it was -- I didn't have any records. You know, I declassified them, the FBI planted them.
You know, he had several scenarios. He didn't really care which one people believed as long as enough people believed one of them that it would denigrate the Justice Department. So, in this situation, he doesn't really care what people believe about Judge Boasberg as long as they don't like him and he's willing to make up any reason he can. He can make up. And the same with the judiciary writ large as they're an obstacle to his, you know, power.
BURNETT: All right. Ty, thank you.
COBB: Thank you, Erin. Nice to be with you.
BURNETT: All right. You, too.
And next, we have a special report from the very front lines of Ukraine. Our Clarissa Ward takes us to a maternity ward. This is a place that used to be filled, right, with babies, new babies. But now there is nothing but silence because people aren't having babies in Ukraine.
And RFK is slashing the workforce at the Department of Health and Human Services, as measles outbreak is growing amidst other crises. The governor of Hawaii, who is also a physician who blames RFK for a different measles outbreak, is OUTFRONT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:37:24]
BURNETT: Tonight, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy predicting that Putin, quote, will die soon, saying that is a fact and everything will be over. Now, it's not exactly clear what Zelenskyy is basing this comment on, but he hasn't said something like this so directly. So, it really does stand out.
The Kremlin has been very quick to shut down what have been persistent rumors about Putin's health. This is the Ukrainian president is urging Trump to stand up to Putin. Ukraine's fight against Russia is becoming more desperate by the hour. And Clarissa Ward tonight is OUTFRONT from the front lines in Ukraine.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Baby Mark is just hours old, but his mother, Ophelia (ph) waited years for this moment.
Probably the war was the only thing stopping us from having a baby, she tells us. My husband is in the army and talked about kids for four years. And then the war started and it wasn't time for kids.
Do you feel it's sort of your duty?
I think yes, she says they are destroying us. Our nation.
Odesa, like all of Ukraine, is in the grips of a demographic crisis. It can be felt in the heavy silence of these hallways. This is definitely one of the quietest maternity hospitals that I've ever visited. And the main doctor just told us the births here are down 40 percent since the start of the war.
According to official statistics, there are three deaths for every birth. Ukraine has the highest death rate and the lowest birth rate in the world. Just as the country needs babies to keep growing the population, it needs men to keep fighting the war.
On the streets of Odesa, draft officer Oleksandr (ph) stops men of fighting age to make sure they are not dodging their duty.
You're the second team to stop us today, two young men tell him. They're 21 and 19, below the conscription age of 25. Lucky for them.
Oleksandr says it has become harder and harder to find draft dodgers because people put out notices on social media warning others of where the patrols are.
It happens every day. As soon as we set up checkpoints and start working, the Odesa Telegram channels inform locals about this, he says. And there are no people on the streets. Everyone runs away.
[19:40:02]
It's not hard to see why. Everyone here has lost someone. Three years of war with Russia has ravaged Ukraine's male adult population. The section of Odesa's main graveyard designated for military burials is a sea of flags and tombstones. Fresh plots have been dug ready for the war's newest victims.
Here, funerals are near-daily and often held in batches of two or three. Every detail is perfectly choreographed. The city has had plenty of practice to get it right.
The mother of 23-year-old Anton Sidorenko (ph) weeps over the body of her son. My sunshine, you won't shine any more for me. You won't come and say,
mama, I'm here, she sobs. I won't see you again. You are far away. So far away.
For those who give life the pain of losing that life too great to bear.
Back at the maternity hospital, Ophelia's husband has come to fetch her and baby Mark. He asked we not show his face.
Grow big and strong, the nurse says, as she hands him the baby. Come back to us for a sister.
But he will be heading back to the front in just over a week, and Ukraine's population will never recover until there is peace.
Clarissa Ward, CNN, Odesa.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: And next, RFK Jr. slashing thousands of jobs at Americas health agencies. Bird flu and measles cases meantime on the rise. The cuts, overall, 25 percent, a massive slash. And the governor of Hawaii, also an ER physician, is next.
Plus, Amazon founder Jeff Bezos and his fiancee getting ready to wed. And it is going to be a big one. Our Harry Enten taking a closer look at the reported over the top wedding of the century.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:46:32]
BURNETT: New tonight, RFK Jr. is slashing 10,000 jobs. I should say another 10,000, because there have already been 10,000 employees laid off at HHS. It's 25 percent of the workforce altogether now, and HHS will be gone 25 percent a quarter. That is a major slash of entire departments. Nearly all units that fall into HHS effected, including the FDA, the CDC, the NIH, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services.
It comes at a time when the U.S. is facing bird flu crisis and the fear of human to human transmission growing by the day.
OUTFRONT now, the governor of Hawaii, Josh Green. He's also an E.R. physician who responded to the measles outbreak in Samoa.
So, you know, this is this -- hits you professionally in so many ways, Governor Green. Let me start with, with your role as governor. RFK is cutting a quarter of the workforce at HHS. It's going to happen in a matter of days, 25 percent of them gone. Every single unit affected.
So, you're the governor of a state. You've got to deal with worries about possible pandemics, other major public health crises. What does that mean? Are you even able to tell what that means if HHS loses 25 percent of its workforce in the next days? GOV. JOSH GREEN (D), HAWAII: Yeah, it's a disaster. It's public health malpractice on the part of RFK Jr. and the DOGE team. It's going to cause loss of life in our state, and in Kansas, and in Texas, and wherever else disease spreads. It's outrageous.
And these guys don't know anything about healthcare, nothing, nothing. RFK Jr. knows nothing about public health. He's got no training. He's got no experience.
And it was bad enough that he cast doubt and spread misinformation about vaccinations. But now, he's taking away the tools from we governors and directors of health and other health professionals. He's taking away those tools for us to keep our people safe. And I don't know why anyone would let him do this.
BURNETT: Well, I mean, it's obviously -- it's not even just a matter of letting. It's a matter of encouraging. It's the -- it's the premise of DOGE and that -- that's what they're doing. Twenty-five percent, though, it's a stunning number.
You mentioned vaccines, Governor. I'm curious because RFK has been talking about vitamin A as a possible cure for measles, and he's refused to say that vaccines are the only way to stop measles from spreading, that that is the ultimate tool in the toolbox. "The New York Times" reports that doctors in Texas -- I don't know if you saw this, but that they have now been treating children who have been given so much vitamin A that they have signs of liver damage. And one doctor in Texas said that kind of preventative use, I think, is especially concerning when we have kids taking it for weeks and weeks. Then you have a potentially a cumulative impact of toxicity.
Look, you helped battle measles in Samoa when people weren't vaccinated. RFK Jr., obviously had been there before that. I mean --
GREEN: Right.
BURNETT: I mean, what do you -- what do you think when you're seeing this, that people are actually taking vitamin A, giving it to their kids to a toxic level instead of vaccinating them?
GREEN: Well, it's tragic. Again, it is malpractice. So, anyone who went to medical school like me and, you know, tens and thousands of other people, tens of thousands of people know that vitamins A, D, E, and K are fat soluble. So, if you load people up with vitamin A, it will be absorbed and you don't get rid of it, you don't pee it out.
So, first of all, they're not doing the right thing, which is telling people to get the MMR vaccination, which is what stops the measles.
[19:50:02]
Okay? Noting that one out of 1,000 people who get the measles are going to die. Maybe more.
Then you hit them with this super heavy dose of vitamin A when they're already fully nourished. There are not a lot of people that are suffering malnutrition in Texas or in Kansas, so it's the wrong treatment. And it also sends, of course, the wrong message.
And for those people who had already been erroneously convinced that they shouldn't get vaccinated, they end up grasping, just like during COVID when they came up with these cockamamie ideas with antibiotics for a virus. I mean, those ideas are not based in science, and that's what they're doing. They're -- they're dismantling good science, good recommendations, which should be left to doctors.
I got to tell you, I hope people start suing DOGE and Elon Musk personally in their personal capacity for causing harm to their children, because that's what's happening when you get rid of the Department of Public Health, HHS gets rid of 2,400 CDC workers, 1,200 NIH workers, which worked on cancer research. I hope that there's actually a reckoning for these guys, because they deserve to be held to account.
And they're not doing President Trump any service. They're doing him a disservice with such bad malpractice.
BURNETT: So Novak Djokovic, the tennis star, just appeared with RFK on a tennis court together. Djokovic, of course, during COVID, you know, wasn't even able to play in one of the tournaments because he refused to get the COVID vaccine, right, couldn't play in the U.S. Open. It was Australian Open issue. And now, here they are together.
When you look at these cuts now, 25 percent of HHS, what does that mean for something like vaccines, even in your state, in the state of Hawaii?
GREEN: It'll be harder. We have we have vaccine hesitancy, especially in rural communities. I mean, I love to play tennis. I was a competitive tennis player when I was young.
But Novak hanging out with RFK, while good for cardiovascular health, won't do anything to prevent the spread of AIDS with good public health advice. It won't do anything to help parents keep their kids from getting deadly meningitis if they don't get their vaccines. This is the kind of B.S. distraction which we expected from a guy who took the job for celebrity reasons.
It is catastrophic for our health care system to have RFK there. And shame on Novak for cozying up to this guy.
Novak, go play tennis. You know, hit 160 mile per hour serve, but stay out of public health. And I hope, I hope someone hits him with an overhead and shows him what it means to hurt somebody, because that's what it's going to be for all these kids that don't get vaccinated. And for all the parents that have to deal with the consequences of this vitamin A overdose.
These are real issues, and these clowns are not public health people. So go back to the tennis court. Definitely good luck at Wimbledon. Stay out of public health.
BURNETT: All right. Governor Green, we appreciate your time. Thank you. GREEN: You bet.
BURNETT: Next, a luxury yacht, star studded guest list. Jeff Bezos upcoming wedding is being called the wedding of the century. And, well, maybe in part, that's because of the bill.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:57:17]
BURNETT: Tonight, the wedding of the century. Thats the words that they are using. Puck News reporting that amazon founder Jeff Bezos and fiancee Lauren Sanchez have sent out invites for their June wedding. It's going to be in Venice, reportedly no expense being spared.
Some hotel rooms apparently cost as much as $32,000 a night, and they are not expecting their guests to pay that. Apparently, they are footing the bill.
Harry Enten is OUTFRONT to tell me something I don't know.
All right. Now this is going to be lavish. I mean, could this smash records? I'm thinking about the Venice wedding. You know, George Clooney and Amal.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: You know --
BURNETT: And that was amazing to watch.
ENTEN: It was amazing to watch.
This one will be one for the ages. And I can tell you that because we don't know how were how they're going to use his yacht, but that yacht that they're going to use, maybe they'll taxi people around. Maybe the wedding will take place in the yacht. That's a $500 million yacht that's going to be involved in this wedding.
How about the ring? The engagement ring? What are we talking about? We're talking about $2.5 million just for the engagement ring.
To put that in perspective and to make us all look bad, the average wedding in the United States is only $33,000. So just the ring. What is that? Thats nearly 100 times that amount. I mean, the whole thing is bonkers. They're making people -- they're raising the bar way too high for someone like me.
BURNETT: And $33,000 is a lot for a wedding, too. I mean, it's -- it's incredible.
Okay. All right, now, what I find interesting about this, you know, their love story is, is an interesting one. And it's happened and it's the center of tabloids, left, right and center.
Second marriage, though, for both of them. And divorce obviously is extremely common. We all know half of marriages end in divorce, but you found some really interesting statistics on remarriage. So, tell me something I don't know.
ENTEN: I'll tell you something you don't know. What we find now is it? Used to be men were far and away more likely to remarry after a first marriage ended. But what you see is women now, their percentage has slid all the way up to 53 percent who remarry after first marriage ends. While the men have actually seen a decline in that number down to 64 percent.
So, this idea that women, once they go through a first marriage, they're done. Uh-uh, that is a myth. The idea that men definitely remarry, also a myth. So, the fact that it's both of their first second marriages not really much of a surprise looking at the stats.
BURNETT: That's a really fascinating numbers.
All right. So Bezos has been under fire in part because of his overtures to Trump, right. Changing the opinion page of "The Washington Post", right, refusing to allow them to endorse Kamala Harris and showing up at the inauguration, along with Elon Musk and others. Mark Zuckerberg was there, but he hasn't obviously aligned himself with Trump in the way of an Elon Musk. Right? I mean, Jeff Bezos is living his life.
ENTEN: He is living --
BURNETT: He's living his life. And yet his favorability numbers are impacted?
ENTEN: This was a real shocker to me, which is, you know, Elon Musk, we've seen his net favorability tank as he has aligned himself next to Trump. But he's actually more popular than Jeff Bezos. Look at the net favorable ratings here. Elon Musk is 21 points underwater. But Jeff Bezos takes the cake, he is 26 points underwater.
Jeff Bezos is not a well-liked guy. Favorable ratings here. Elon Musk is 21 points underwater. But Jeff Bezos takes the cake. He is 26 points underwater. Jeff Bezos is not a well-liked guy.
BURNETT: That's really -- that is -- okay. Thats something to think about.
ENTEN: Yeah.
BURNETT: So, I guess we're going to leave it there. I like to leave it on something to think about.
ENTEN: Think about it, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you.
ENTEN: Thank you.
BURNETT: And it's time for Anderson.
