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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump's Massive Tariffs Obliterate $2.5 Trillion From U.S. Stocks; Laura Loomer Made Trump Do It; Turning On Wayne Gretzky. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired April 03, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:24]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Breaking news, stocks plunge, $2.5 trillion wiped out after Trump's trade war begins. Fears growing of recession. I'm going to talk to my good friend, "Mad Money's" Jim Cramer.
Plus, Trump talks up far right conspiracy theorist Laura Loomer as CNN learns that Loomer was behind firings of several national security officials in the Trump administration.
And from favorite son status to traitor and turncoat, Canada's legendary hockey player Wayne Gretzky is persona non grata after he did the unthinkable in the eyes of many Canadians and siding with Trump.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news. A wipeout, $2.5 trillion today gone in the rout on Wall Street in response to Trump's trade war against 185 countries.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stocks going out at the lows. The Dow falling more than 1,600 points, almost 1,700 points.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Almost nothing was spared here on this Thursday afternoon, the first full day of trading since we learned about the new U.S. tariff regime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I mean, we'll just show you this image. I mean, nothing was spared. This is a sort of a map of the market, that sea of red. Some of the few companies that went up in the drug industry.
Just listen to the CEO of high-end furniture company Restoration Hardware. So he's on a phone call with investors, right? He's talking about what's going on, and he looks down on his computer and he sees his own stock price down 40 percent. And this is what happens. (BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
GARY FRIEDMAN, RH CEO: Oh, (EXPLETIVE DELETED), okay. I just looked at the screen. I hadn't looked at it. You know, it got hit when I think the tariffs came out.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: I mean, I can't believe this actually happened. I mean, the Dow eventually came in at a close, about 4 percent lower. The Nasdaq, 6 percent lower. And right now, as you look around this ripple around the world, sort of its like a tsunami rolling around markets overseas, mostly all in the red.
And Trump today, meantime, was on the golf course. His Doral Golf Club in Florida hosted the Saudi owned Liv golf tournament. So that's where he was.
While he was on his way, he was asked about the crisis on Wall Street.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: A lot of people were upset today about how their 401(k)s were doing. Do you have investments? Were you looking at them, are you worried?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think the -- I think our markets are going to boom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Of course, the S&P 500 today as I mentioned, lost $2.5 trillion alone. Now America's economy before Trump made any of these announcements, started talking about all these tariffs and the way he was in recent weeks had a lot going for it.
I mean, this is the one thing that's easy to forget in this, this time when its sort of talking about how other people are screwing the U.S. all the time. America is the largest economy in the world, bar none. It is. The GDP of America is $29 trillion. It's the largest economy in the world. It's the strongest economy in the world.
The U.S. dollar remains the most powerful and dominant currency in the world. Nothing matters more. Gold is priced in dollars. Oil is priced in dollars. And that is the ultimate power.
The United States labor market is strong, with a 4.1 percent unemployment rate that is lower than any of our major trading partners, lower than any of them.
Consumer spending before Trump took office was surging up more than 4 percent the last quarter of last year.
All of that, though, is now at risk. I mean, JPMorgan tonight upped their odds of recession. They had from 6 to 60 percent. It was 40 percent on Monday. That just goes to show you how unexpected the magnitude of the tariff move by Trump was. That's a 50 percent increase in odds in two days, an unprecedented event.
And then there's the headlines that we are all now inundated with. Like these Trump tariffs stoke fear of economic spiral of doom. Markets brace for global trade war. Trump's mindless tariffs will cause economic havoc.
And tonight, already, news of layoffs. The maker of Jeep and Chrysler announcing its had to lay off already nearly 1,000 workers. Whirlpool announcing a layoff of 650, and that is the single biggest layoff in Iowa in nearly a year.
All of this coming after the United States is now facing the latest numbers, 275,000 job cuts in March. And that is a record.
Now, that's something that we are not hearing about from Trump at all. We're hearing about though from him, things like this tariff chart that we showed you yesterday.
And as we came to air yesterday, that chart had just come out. The math looked odd. And I can now confirm to you that it doesn't add up.
So, what Trump said you were looking at in those two charts was the tariff rates that other countries are putting on American goods. One top investor called the math, though, illogical and absurd and full of factually incorrect numbers.
And I just wanted to take a moment to explain to you why. Because when you hear Trump say they're charging us 90 percent, we're only charging them 45. Maybe there's a little part of you that says, are they really charging us that?
[19:05:02]
That's terrible. And if so, maybe 45 is fair.
It doesn't add up and here's why. Take Vietnam. Thats why I mentioned 90 percent. Trump claims that they have a 90 percent tariff on U.S. imports. So, to retaliate, he would only hit them with 46 percent.
So, the reality is that Vietnam's average tariff rate is only about 9 percent, not 90. And they didn't have a typo. They got to that number a very specific way.
They took the trade deficit that the United States has with Vietnam, which is large, $123.5 billion. And then they just divided it by the value of Vietnam's exports to the U.S., which in a big trade deficit is a small number relative to the deficit. And that's how they got to the tariff number, quote, unquote, that Vietnam is charging. They get 90 percent. And then to look magnanimous and charitable, they say, oh, were going to cut it in half. And that's all we'll charge Vietnam.
But the bottom line is this, if the United States buys more from a country than it sells to that country, Trump is calling that a tariff. But that is not a tariff. That is capitalism. Maybe Americans buy a lot of bananas from a country because Americans like bananas and don't grow bananas in America. But that banana selling country doesn't buy a lot of American goods. That's not a tariff. A tariff is a country saying we will charge you more than it costs to make something just because. And that is a tax.
And by the way, a big reason that Vietnam sells so much to the United States happens to be because American companies are making things there. They're putting up factories there to sell goods back to America, because labor is cheaper in Vietnam.
That did not stop team Trump, though, from using this magic formula for all 185 countries, including that speck of land, the Heard and McDonald Islands, human population zero, which got hit with a truly magical thinking tariff of 10 percent. That is the formula Trump used.
And "Mad Money's" Jim Cramer from CNBC says the math is insane. He's going to join me in a moment.
So, you can imagine the reaction around the world. China's commerce ministry says it will resolutely adopt countermeasures. In Japan, the prime minister putting all options on the table. In Australia, the prime minister, not the act of a friend. The prime minister of Spain vowing to respond decisively.
And Jeff Zeleny begins our coverage OUTFRONT at the White House.
And, Jeff, a major market meltdown today. Trump, meantime on the golf course, promising a boom.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Erin, it was almost a parallel universe today at the White House earlier, President Trump said the markets are going to boom. The country is going to boom. As he flew down here to Florida on Air Force One, he was asked directly by reporters, what is your reaction to the market? He said this, I think it's all going to work out.
But the reality is the president was flying here to Florida. He's giving a speech tonight at a live golf dinner. As you said, he's going to be spending a long weekend here working, of course, playing some golf as well, but did not fly to a factory. He did not use the presidential bully pulpit to sort of sell this tariff plan. All throughout the day, his advisers at the White House were trying to explain how these formulas came together, even as the commerce secretary and others were insisting he would not negotiate.
However, on the flight down here to Florida just a short time ago, the president said he, in fact was open to some negotiations. He said, "Everyone is calling us. We are in the driver's seat".
So that leaves us a question tonight, as the deadline begins to come into effect here, the first one on Saturday for those 10 percent tariffs, the next one next Wednesday for the country-by-country tariffs, how open to negotiation is he? But of all the worry that we talked to Republicans and some administration officials, the weakening dollar was the one that concerned people the most.
So, we shall see what the president does here. But there was no sign of worry, at least in the comments he made today, Erin. BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Jeff Zeleny, and can't say
it enough.
The fact that so much around the world is priced in dollars is -- is truly the greatest sign of American greatness that there is.
All right. Peter Tuchman is with us, one of the most well-known traders on the New York stock exchange. Your expression today, as always, says it. We have an image of you there on the floor today as you were watching what was going on.
Meera Pandit is global market strategist at J.P. Morgan Asset Management.
And I'm so glad to have both of you here.
I mean, Peter, in, you know, in an odd way, you know, we are in a moment in history. We are in a moment in history.
PETER TUCHMAN, TRADER AT THE NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE: No doubt.
BURNETT: I mean, what was it like today on the floor?
TUCHMAN: You know what? I have to admit, the mood was really. It's not that often that you really get a sense. I would think the last time was probably the beginning days of COVID, where you just sort of had a darkness around the room, and today was clearly that, you know? I mean, I was reminded when I ran into Jim Cramer in the green room of that day, you had a conversation with him. It was probably around the financial crisis.
BURNETT: It was when he famously --
TUCHMAN: He was screaming at you, they know nothing, they know nothing. And I was reminded of it and I felt like I was going to I'm going to come out here and do the exact same thing because it's unbelievable. They know nothing.
I mean, they are -- the formula that they use for these numbers yesterday was trade deficit. You know, it's like apples, oranges, a couple of cashews divided by ten times four. I mean, none of it makes any sense. And millions and trillions of dollars, billions and trillions of dollars are being wiped out of the market on a day-to-day basis.
[19:10:00]
I had it a bit wrong. I thought yesterday he was going to unfold this story after we've had these six weeks of an aggressive selloff, and I thought he was going to lay it out. And, you know, Wall Street can handle virtually anything except uncertainty and surprises. I felt like this was going to be the big reveal, and that we were going to sort of, okay, whether we understand it or not, this is the story. And then we were going to reverse and have a nice rally. I couldn't have been more wrong. And today's selloff was it wasn't even a capitulation. It was a bit of
a devastating day on the market. I mean, we closed -- what's also significant is we closed at the low for another day in a row. And normally when you have a huge selloff for a particular reason.
BURNETT: Pops at the end.
TUCHMAN: Right, recovers a little bit. Right? It's not a nice term, but bottom feeding or people, there's a bid in the market at the end of the day where people are seeing that, you know, probably going to be a rally.
We close at the low and sold off another 35 handles in the S&P after we were done trading. So, it was just nothing. But, you know, blood in the streets in my opinion.
BURNETT: I mean, blood on the streets, Meera, I think interesting how Peter describes it. Just that feeling of darkness. And when you equate that to COVID, I think anybody watching, whether you've ever been on a market floor or not, they know what that feeling was like, is a feeling of sort of an internal fear.
TUCHMAN: A pit in your stomach.
BURNETT: A pit, right? I mean, you know, how do you see it, Meena?
MEERA PANDIT, GLOBAL MARKET STRATEGIST, J.P. MORGAN ASSET MANAGEMENT: It was indeed one of the worst selloffs that we have seen since the pandemic. And that is because expectations were not met. Essentially, the market expected to see a tariff rate that was high, but not quite as high as we saw.
On average, the import rate on foreign goods has been about 2 percent to 3 percent last year. It's up to 25 percent at this point --
BURNETT: Just like boom, here we go, yeah.
PANDIT: -- after these tariffs come in. And that has real economic impacts both economy and profits markets overall. Because if you start to see some uncertainty, if you start to see some major hits to profitability, businesses may not feel as comfortable investing in capex or hiring. Consumers may not want to do major spending if they're worried about their job prospects, or if we see higher inflation.
Tariffs are typically stagflationary, meaning slower growth, higher inflation in an environment where we're still recovering from the inflation that we've had over the last couple of years, when we think about profits, slower consumption means slower revenues.
From a margin's perspective, if you're seeing those higher costs and businesses have to absorb that, that will impact margins. If some of that is passed on to the consumer, it'll impact consumers. So, ultimately, we have a multi-pronged impacts here that are likely to slow the economy and raise prices overall. BURNETT: I mean, just going back to that Restoration Hardware CEO.
So, they're high-end furniture, that furniture comes in. And by the way, they're famous for having a lot of it on hand. You know what's in stock now. And they have a lot. But that's high priced furniture.
And he looks down the screen and goes holy sh -- on a call with investors and stock down 40 percent, 40 percent. I mean --
TUCHMAN: We saw that. We saw that in every stock we looked at today. I mean, you know, look, in the old days you would see stocks down. Five, $10 was a big deal. You've got more stocks trading over $100 than ever before, and more stocks trading in $20 and $40 and $50. Whether it's up or down.
You know, look, he was handed a beautiful little box with a bow on it right at the end of last year.
BURNETT: You mean Trump with the economy?
TUCHMAN: Exactly.
BURNETT: What I was -- what I was going through. The strength of the economy.
TUCHMAN: Correct. To such a point where Jay Powell, in the last meeting of 2024, said, you know what? I'm changing my guidance for 2025, cutting it from four cuts to two because things are so good.
And that was the box that he was handed when he took office. And singlehandedly, no disrespect, but singlehandedly, he has decimated this market in that first six weeks from -- February 19th, we were at a record high in the market.
BURNETT: Right.
TUCHMAN: Six weeks later, we spiraled down and that wasn't bad enough. Then we had last night and today, which is just, you know, has left us where we are, which is worried.
BURNETT: Well, and sometimes you can say one person is responsible for things. And in this case and what we're talking about, one person --
TUCHMAN: Really feels that way, that it's singlehandedly.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you both so very much. I appreciate it.
And I want to go straight to Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar.
Jim Cramer from CNBC's "Mad Money" will be with me in a moment.
Senator, you were a sponsor of a bipartisan bill that would end Trump's tariffs on Canada. I know it was symbolic in the sense that it's not going to do it, but it was important because you had a bipartisan. But Trump just said a few moments ago he's -- he's open to negotiating. Okay? So he just said this, I want to play this for you because I don't know
if it's worse to say you're going to do something terrible and do it, or worse, you're going to do something terrible and then not be good for your word. I don't know, but he's contradicting himself and his top aides. Let me just play this to start.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): Okay.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The tariffs give us great power to negotiate. Always have.
LUTNICK: The president is not going to back off.
PETER NAVARRO, WHITE HOUSE SENIOR COUNSELOR: This is not a negotiation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Okay. Is it or isn't it?
KLOBUCHAR: What I know is I loved hearing Peter talk about the effect of this. And I know were going to hear a lot from Jim Cramer. But let me make this clear. Let me take it from Wall Street to Main Street.
This is a Trump tariff tax. It is $4,000 tax for every family in America, $20,000 increase for a home, increase for cars, increase for groceries. We've got chaos going up, prices going up. But stock market going down. And yes, savings going down for average Americans.
So, whatever he says that he wants to negotiate. We got a win last night in the U.S. Senate for Republicans who are willing to stand up to him, but only for when behind closed doors, they keep saying to the Democrats, you know, we agree with you. These tariffs are bad. We believe in capitalism, but they're not standing up to him.
So, we've got to do something in Congress to stand up to him. And the Republicans are in charge. They've got to do this. They've got to listen to their constituents right now.
But I cannot tell you how chaotic this is in a market that was going well, when people were starting to invest again and they were buying things, and now, look what he has done in one day.
BURNETT: So, I want to just show you the home page of "The New York Post", which is, you know, a paper on its editorial page that there's many issues, obviously, upon which they agree with Trump. Not here.
And they say, "Priced Out". And then the headline shoppers worried about sticker shock may need to buy these items quickly before Trump's tariffs kick in. And they're going through things like bananas and -- and things that are imported, butter. I mean, do you think this is going to be reality?
KLOBUCHAR: I hope not, because I hope he comes to his senses and listens to some cooler voices around him. But there's no sign of that at all.
And the chaotic nature of this, as Cramer has pointed out with this map, the fact that they didn't even notice they were taxing with their tariffs a bunch of penguins on two remote islands, it's unbelievable to me. And then at the same time, you've got regular Americans who are just holding on to things while they're dismantling Social Security, while they're cutting Medicaid.
Weve got a vote on the Senate floor, and so many of our Republican colleagues, again, a lot of angst because they've realized that this is an economic disaster. And we want to get on track.
But he's got to come to his senses, and he's got to stop worrying about Elon Musk and the trillionaires around him and start thinking about those families that are just struggling to get by, that work hard every single day and deserve better than this.
BURNETT: Senator Klobuchar, very much appreciate your time on this important night. Thank you.
KLOBUCHAR: Thank you.
BURNETT: And OUTFRONT next, as promised, we're following this breaking news. I'm joined by someone you all know from CNBC's "Mad Money", my good friend, Jim Cramer.
JIM CRAMER, CNBC HOST: Hi, Erin.
BURNETT: He's here.
And here's a preview, Jim.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But calling these reciprocal is not really --
CRAMER: We don't -- we don't use that word. We're done using that word.
We're not using that that because that's just -- I don't want to call it a lie. It's dissembling.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Plus, Trump taking a right wing conspiracy theorist's advice, firing multiple officials, including three National Security Council staffers after Laura Loomer, who called inside -- 9/11 an inside job, told him to do it.
And Elon Musk tonight, facing a punishing blow from the E.U. We'll tell you exactly what happened.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:22:31]
BURNETT: Breaking news. Vice President J.D. Vance just saying the Trump administration is, quote, feeling good about Trump's tariffs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're feeling good. Look, I frankly thought in some ways it could be worse in the markets because this is a big transition. You saw the president said earlier today, it's like a patient who was very sick. We did the operation and now it's time to make the patient better. And that's exactly what we're doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right. This is Jim Cramer from CNBC's Mad Money who has never been a free trader, right? So, he's not just out here to go against him. He's saying the White House doesn't seem to understand what it's trying to do and that the reciprocal tariffs are not reciprocal and could do tremendous damage.
So OUTFRONT now, Jim Cramer of CNBC's "Mad Money" and "Squawk on the Street" all on CNBC, that incredible network that I will love until the day I die.
CRAMER: Just so great to be here with you, Erin.
BURNETT: So -- and I'm so thrilled that we're able to talk. Okay, so what the heck is going on?
CRAMER: Well, I'm let down because I -- yes, I'm not a free trader. I'm a fair trader. I always have been from the days when, when you worked with me at CNBC, and what I was hoping was that a coordinated thing where if you are charging us 20 percent, we charge you, 20 instead of a car where we're only making you pay two and a half and you're not letting us in. We try to get things better, but instead.
BURNETT: On a specific thing. You go, if they're ten on car, you go ten on a car.
CRAMER: But I went deep on the numbers today, and the numbers did not make any sense. And I was actually --
BURNETT: Can we -- you did. You made -- I was doing like bananas and Vietnam. You did Cramerica.
CRAMER: Well, I just said, you know, it's one of these things where if I'm doing 100 billion and I'm -- I'm letting -- you're letting me do 10 billion and I'm letting you do 100 billion. There was a way to be able to make it work. But the numbers that they did and they had this ridiculous -- I mean, I was that was the chart that they had with the with the mathematical equation.
I mean, are you kidding me? How about just like --
BURNETT: It looked like an Einstein.
CRAMER: I know. How about the fact that it was just wrong? And what bothered me, Erin, was that they really did, over and over again, the president said, listen, it's going to be reciprocal. So, you do it, we do it. And that was going to be so good.
And I really believed in it. And I feel like a sucker tonight because I am not a free trader and I do not believe in free trade. And I was just as tough, if not tougher, than his people. But they screwed it up and they really made -- they did it a totally ill-advised way.
And I was very let down. As someone who really, truly believes that free trade is awful for the American working person, this is what they came up with. Jeez, come on, have some gumption. Have some math.
BURNETT: I mean, so how in the world do they do that after all of this? I mean, Jerome Powell --
CRAMER: They assured us over and over again that they were going to do the thing that would make it so that the tariffs would come down and the countries would -- would -- that were bad actors would change their -- their ways. And then so then Israel decides to get rid of tariffs.
BURNETT: And they tariff them anyway.
CRAMER: Vietnam decides to cut their tariff and they still got the highest tariff. It was -- it was such a shame because they missed the opportunity and now they have to pay the price. And it's funny, too, because none of this stock market, none of this had to happen. And I feel bad because a lot of people lose money when this happens.
I hope people just be calm and be constructive, but the way that they handled it was so bush league that I was surprised.
President Trump has people who around him know these things. And so --
BURNETT: What is okay. Can you explain so why when you hear Scott Bessent, he is a smart guy.
CRAMER: He's very smart.
BURNETT: He is a smart, thoughtful, respected person. And -- and he came out and defended these well.
CRAMER: I think when you --
BURNETT: People like that, they know. He knows.
CRAMER: You know, I tried to think like that because Peter Navarro is someone I've known for -- for five decades. And I was hoping that Peter, when I talked with a lot, really understood because he understood. He taught me these things.
And I know he knows what reciprocal tariff really is. And -- and he didn't deliver on that. And that was that was a shame, because there was such a great opportunity to course-correct and make it so all these people who have taken advantage of our country repeatedly and wiped out all of the jobs and small towns, wiped out my father's job.
This is one of the reasons why I've always been always felt like this. It's ridiculous how badly we've been taken advantage of, and I thought they were going to do something. And what did they do? They cratered the Stock Market and gave us nothing.
BURNETT: Well, I just want to emphasize again, I think it's so important to emphasize where you're coming from because there are some who will come out and say, well, you know, free trade, free trade. You know, Larry Kudlow, your old friend, right, made the argument --
CRAMER: We always had very, very flashpoint with me and Larry.
BURNETT: Right, was -- was about free trade, and they'll make the economic argument for it and they'll make -- right, that you're not actually coming from that. You would have been open. You're not -- you're not ideologically opposed to the concept of what they were trying to do.
CRAMER: Not at all. Here's what they --
BURNETT: But they didn't do it.
CRAMER: They made a bargain with the devil. They decided to get rid of the American working person's good job with a good pension and sacrifices so that we could get cheap goods. And it never -- they never thought for a minute the Republicans or Democrats, what would happen to those towns and those people? And they were left behind.
And I always felt that was horrendous. A president comes along that's going to do something about it, and this is what he does?
BURNETT: You know, you know, part of the reason and you and I are friends for a long, long time. But many people know our relationship for this one moment, not this moment, but a moment.
CRAMER: And decades of just of -- of my so fortunate to be friends with you and your family.
BURNETT: And you -- but there was this moment, and if anyone hasn't seen it, I'm going to play it. I'm going to play it because we're in a moment right now. I don't know if you heard Peter Tuchman describe it on the floor today, that it was a feeling like in COVID -- of just feeling a darkness and a fear and uncertainty on that floor that people hadn't felt. And -- and it was a horrible feeling. It makes you feel sick.
And there was another moment -- he mentioned COVID. There was one other moment. And that moment was that horrible crash when nobody thought they could even get money out of an ATM.
CRAMER: Well, it was us.
BURNETT: And you said it like it was at that time. I want to play the moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRAMER: He has no idea! BURNETT: Cramer.
CRAMER: I have talked to the heads of almost every single one of these firms in the last 72 hours, and he has no idea what it's like out there. None. And Bill Poole has no idea what it's like out there.
My people have been in this game for 25 years, and they are losing their jobs, and these firms are going to go out of business. And he's nuts. They're nuts. They know nothing.
BURNETT: Cramer.
CRAMER: I have not seen it like this since I went five bid for a half a million shares of Citigroup. And I got hit in 1990. This is a different kind of market. And the Fed is asleep.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CRAMER: Nailed that one. You know obviously there's a very much less medicated than me now or maybe just younger and a little more fiery.
But yeah, that was 2007. And you and I both knew and I was getting tired of -- of trying to be calm and trying to be like, you are supposed to be on TV.
BURNETT: Right.
CRAMER: But I always felt comfortable with you, and I know that I just -- oh, shit, excuse me. That's --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: That's all right. Restoration Hardware CEO says it.
CRAMER: My friend is going to be on tomorrow at RH. I'm going to have him on.
BURNETT: Oh, you're going to have him on.
CRAMER: Yeah, I've known him for a long time.
BURNETT: Well, I want to know what's like in that moment when you look on your computer on --
CRAMER: It was 100 points, when you drop 100 points, you stop.
BURNETT: But here we are and I understand, I understand it's a different moment in some senses.
CRAMER: First of all, CNN. I'm sorry.
BURNETT: It's another moment that like that though.
CRAMER: Okay. So --
BURNETT: You come out and people should know better and they don't. CRAMER: Okay. So, let's put it in perspective. Then I was worried
about my paycheck. I was worried about all the banks failing. I was worried that that Bernanke didn't know what he was doing and he didn't. That Tim Geithner was terrific treasury secretary, but he didn't understand. And what I saw happening was just the unraveling of the republic.
This is not that. This is a manmade issue that can be corrected through some thought. Maybe get the treasury secretary more involved, maybe explain to the people why you wanted to do this. But this is nothing.
BURNETT: By the way, a manmade issue. It is an issue made by one man.
CRAMER: Right? So, it's -- true. And there were others who were around him who didn't give him good advice. But this can be -- and look, and I know he's going to have to dig in his heels because that's his nature.
[19:30:03]
But the economy is stronger. Unemployment is very, very low still. We still have a fantastic Fed chief in Jay Powell, who is a remarkable person, adult in the room who will do the right thing now because they just they just created inflation.
They didn't seem to realize -- I mean, I thought that President Trump won, in part because he realized that there was so much inflation. Well, they just gave you far more inflation. That was a shame.
And now, you've got people hoarding. Forget -- I mean, I'll see a Costco on Saturday. I love Costco, but not because I'm hoarding. But I do buy gold through Costco and I like gold, but I just feel that they just got -- they were they just did the wrong thing, Erin, but it's not something that is -- that is catastrophic. The stock market will recover, but this is not 2007 when so many people lost everything.
BURNETT: Yeah. Well, and let's hope that they can course-correct.
By the way, Jim Cramer buys gold bars at Costco. There you go.
CRAMER: Well, I was dealing with the gold executive the other day. You said you know what? I do it, too. I get 3 percent back on my credit card. I said, but you're the largest gold miner in the world. He goes, a bargain is a bargain.
BURNETT: All right. Well, there you go. So there's your advice. Gold bars at Costco.
CRAMER: Thank you for having me.
BURNETT: It's wonderful to see you, Jim. And I'm so appreciative that you could come and that CNBC let you come. And of course, CNBC's "Mad Money", "Squawk on the Street". And you can see, Jim.
And next, Trump appearing to take orders from a far right conspiracy theorist firing multiple members of his national security council after Laura Loomer paid him a visit and gave advice.
And Wayne Gretzky, right, known as the great one in Canada, the hockey legend now, though, facing a very different tune called a turncoat for backing Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Based on 30 years of knowing Wayne and his family. So I'm getting a little bit emotional.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:31:20]
BURNETT: Tonight, bloodbath. And we're not talking about the markets. This is now new information that we are learning about President Trump here at CNN, that he has fired multiple national security council officials.
But by the way, this is not about signal. This is not about Pete Hegseth or Mike Waltz. No, this is about something else. This is because far right conspiracy theorist Laura Loomer, who is baselessly claimed 9/11 was an inside job, told him that he should get rid of a bunch of people.
Sources tell CNN that Loomer met with Trump in the Oval Office yesterday. Trump's chief of staff, Susie Wiles, and top national security advisor Mike Waltz were there.
So that's why I'm telling you, Mike Waltz was obviously not on the list. Loomer presented a list of about a dozen staffers. Our reporters are told and told Trump that these people were disloyal. And the president then praised Loomer when asked about CNNs reporting moments ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Laura Loomer is a very good patriot. She is a very strong person, and I saw her yesterday for a little while. She has she makes recommendations of things and people, and sometimes I listen to those recommendations like I do with everybody. I listen to everybody, and then I make a decision.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: David Urban, Margaret Hoover are here with me now.
So, Margaret, you've been doing a lot of reporting, talking to people about this, you know, on these lists. What does it tell you that Laura Loomer is not only getting access to Trump in the Oval Office, but that he's acting on her advice, right? This is someone who said 9/11 is an inside job.
MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah. Look, in this -- in the first Trump administration, it took until the very end after he had lost the election for the conspiracy theorist to be able to walk right in the Oval Office and start telling him what to do and giving him really good/terrible ideas. Now it's just happening less than 100 days in.
I think the fact that a 9/11 conspiracy theorist is making policy recommendations about staff actually is a great distractor from the fact that there's a real policy war about personnel happening for the NSC between the pro-Trump Reaganites and the restrainers and the neo isolationists. And there are these two factions in the White House on the national security side, and they're fighting it out. And, frankly, they're getting a lot of these sort of pro-Trump, Reaganite folks, the Mike Waltz, the Alex Wongs are getting blocked by the PPO and the restrainer crowd.
BURNETT: Yeah.
HOOVER: And so, that's what this is about. I mean, the fact is, I think Laura Loomer was probably a useful idiot for the restrainer crowd to go in and make a case because she could go directly to the to the president and make a case for their point of view.
BURNETT: You know, David, what do you make of that, though, that that would be who would be able to get in and make that argument and that Laura Loomer is talking about who's disloyal? What? I don't know what loyalty or disloyalty means in the context of the messenger here.
DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah. So, listen, I don't agree with Laura Loomer on much, but she does have I do give her credit in one part, in one regard that she does have the presidents best interest in mind and in lots of ways. And that's why he listens to her times. As you saw the clip, he said, I listened to a lot of people. I don't always do what they say, but I do. I do take advice and listen to lots of different folks.
And so I don't disagree with Margaret that this is this is emblematic of a much larger war that's being waged inside the administration and inside the NSC. Specifically, if you look at Laura Loomer posts if she did have any sway, she would have Alex Wong would have been bounced out of there today because she's -- he is target number one for -- for her.
And so, I would have suspected that. And so, interesting the reporting that that Susie was there because nobody gets in the Oval Office without Susie Wiles permission or her assent. And so, you know, as Margaret says, this is -- this is emblematic of a larger war taking place. And the three staffers that got bounced are people who, if you looked at their resumes, don't appear to be particularly globalists, or one was Mike Waltz's former legislative director who was working at the NSC in in a legislative affairs capacity.
[19:40:11]
Another one was the professional staff member who was the staff director of the Senate Select Intelligence Committee. For many, many years. He had worked for Rubio years and years and years ago. But for -- for the past, you know, 15 years, he's been working as a professional staff member in the Senate.
And then the only one I could really point to is having some sort of maybe deep state ties would have been Doug Feith's son, who you know, Doug Feith of the Cheney world and Iran, that's the only one I could really point to saying, you know, that you could really clearly say would -- would have some issues.
But you know, Margaret's right that there's -- there's clearly a bigger war going on here. And what's also interesting to me is that this, this, this story had faded from the front pages, right? It had been gone. It was it was gone.
The Waltz, the Signalgate. You're part -- you're exactly correct. It kind of faded. And so, this is obviously not a part of that, but part of something bigger, perhaps.
BURNETT: But you know, I and I understand what both of you are saying, and maybe, you know, you could, you know, criticize me for coming back on this, but I will say I can't get over the messenger, and I can't get over the fact that Trump is okay with this messenger, David. I mean, let's just go through Laura Loomer. Okay?
She suggested 9/11 was an inside job. She has questioned whether school shootings are real. She posted. David, and I'm not saying you're defending what she's posted. I'm just making a point to everybody what she's done.
URBAN: I'm not.
BURNETT: Have you noticed there's always a school shooting in a swing state or caucus state right before an election? She talked about Kamala Harris saying if she was elected, the White House will smell like curry. Marjorie Taylor Greene denounced her.
So -- so I come back to all of this because you can't take the dressing away from the salad, Margaret.
HOOVER: No, that's right, that's right. Look, I mean, its interesting. David says, well, you know, it's interesting. Nobody gets in the front door without Susie Wiles blessing it. But Susie Wiles also stacked that meeting with Howard Lutnick, who, you know, lost more people on 9/11 in his business than anybody else who lost business. And his brother died in 9/11.
So maybe Susie Wiles is trying to stack a meeting full of people. Look, the president invites people in. He has these relationships with conspiracy theorists. He listens to the conspiracy theorists. He likes to listen to the conspiracy theorists because he likes to listen to everyone.
So, this is really coming from the top, I suspect, not from, you know, and I suspect she was like a useful idiot for the -- for the restrainer crowd that wants to get rid of Alex Wong and everyone else.
The problem is, I don't know that the president understands that these people are undermining his first term legacy, his first term legacy in foreign policy is really marked by the successes of that crowd. And here, they are coming in and undermining it.
BURNETT: So, David, though, is it -- are you concerned that the people who would want to get rid of these guys in this internecine warfare that's going on felt that their best foot forward to get Trump to listen to them was to send in Laura Loomer.
URBAN: No, listen, I agree with Margaret. I'm not sure that she, you know, the message would have gotten to the president, regardless of whom the messenger was. I think that, you know, I do -- I am a bit concerned about, you know, one faction winning out over another faction.
I do think it's healthy to have a debate. I do like Mike Waltz. I think he's a very talented guy. I think his view of the world is a view that I share. And, you know, I think that NATO is a useful alliance.
I do, you know, like Margaret says, maybe I'm a Reaganite or whatever. Whatever term you used earlier, Margaret, but I believe it's healthy.
HOOVER: You're a Trump Reaganite. That's all you, David Urban.
URBAN: Yeah. There you go. I believe it's healthy to have that kind of debate inside the White House. And that's what you're supposed to have on the national security council. And Mike Waltz should be able to have those kind of open discussions and open dissent in the White House from a, you know, a divergent point, points of views. And so, ,by eliminating people that want to have that, I think it's just bad for its bad for this administration.
And I -- you know, I'd wish that that not occur. I'd wish there'd be more divergent views presented than the less.
BURNETT: All right. Well, thank you both very much.
And next, we were talking about Wayne Gretzky. Wayne Gretzky, you know, a lion, a hero, not just in Canada, but definitely in Canada. But all that changed after he crossed an unthinkable line for too many north of the U.S.-Canada border. He backed Trump.
Plus, the E.U. going after Elon Musk, and it is going to cost him a lot. The latest in a string of losses. We'll share exactly what's happening here in these breaking developments.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:49:00]
BURNETT: Breaking news, Canada meeting Trump with Trump. Prime Minister Mark Carney saying Canada will match Trump's 25 percent auto tariffs with a tariff on cars imported from the U.S.
This as the country turns against its own, quote, favorite son, ice hockey legend Wayne Gretzky. A pride of Canada now being called by some a traitor, a turncoat, a MAGA junkie after he did the unthinkable in the eyes of many of his fellow Canadians, he put on a MAGA hat and got next to Trump.
Paula Newton is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Canada's beloved native son and his MAGA ties are facing fierce criticism. Wayne Gretzky, the great one, is now, for some, the hated one. The shock of that beginning to register in his hometown.
LARRY KING, FORMER CNN HOST: Where did you grow up?
WAYNE GRETZKY, ICE HOCKEY LEGEND: I grew up in a town called Brantford, Ontario.
NEWTON: At this hockey stick factory in Brantford, orders bound for the United States, rush out the door to beat Trump's tariffs.
[19:50:03]
GRAEME ROUSTAN, OWNER, ROUSTAN HOCKEY: All these are going to the "Miracle on Ice", Team USA, 45th anniversary.
NEWTON: Owner Graeme Roustan is blunt about the trade war that has left his business, this city and its hockey legend, as unwilling combatants.
ROUSTAN: Well, for us, it's a disaster day. It's just ridiculous to insult your neighbor. And as a dual citizen, Canadian and American, I don't understand it from the American point of view either. Why would we insult Canadians?
NEWTON: As for how his friend Wayne Gretzky got caught up in all of this.
ROUSTAN: To drop Wayne Gretzky's name into the middle of this and dropped that, it's a -- it's a drive-by assassination of a name, a good quality Canadian name.
NEWTON: First, Gretzky appeared in a MAGA hat and then the inauguration. And then --
TRUMP: I have so many great friends. One of them is the great one, Wayne Gretzky.
NEWTON: The highway that leads to this gritty, working class city bears the name of its hockey hero. But to the mayor, Kevin Davis, the Wayne Gretzky Parkway also serves as a free trade expressway.
MAYOR KEVIN DAVIS, BRANTFORD, ONTARIO: It's a mutually beneficial relationship with the United States.
NEWTON: Until it wasn't.
DAVIS: Until it wasn't. You know, we're nice until we're not.
And yeah, if you want a war, then it's a war. But it's a -- it's a totally meaningless war from my perspective.
NEWTON: Some people want Wayne Gretzky to not get political, but at least say you need to cut out calling Canada the 51st state.
DAVIS: Well, I don't hear Wayne calling us the 51st state.
NEWTON: He has been called a traitor, a turncoat, a MAGA junkie, a MAGA sidekick.
DAVIS: Based on 30 years of knowing Wayne and his family. So I'm getting a little bit emotional.
NEWTON: There are people that want to take his name off the buildings here.
DAVIS: Well, there are -- I agree with you. There are people that feel strongly about it and feel emotional, very emotional about this, because we do feel under attack here in Canada.
NEWTON: Gretzky declined to comment to CNN for this story.
The sports center in town, the Brantford Titans, are on the ice. Gretzky's name on the rink.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, there's a goal.
TERRY CORBIN, BRANTFORD, ONTARIO RESIDENT: He hasn't lived here for how many years? I mean, I almost see him as, you know, kind of somebody with dual citizenship, but who has chosen, you know, United States of America to live in.
NEWTON: You want him to speak up for Canada?
CORBIN: I do, I do. He's -- he's kind of the voice of Canada.
NEWTON: What would you want him to say to Donald Trump?
CORBIN: I wish he would say to Donald, you know, to back off and treat Canada as a partner instead of as trying to take over as.
NEWTON: Well, Gretzky has a solid reserve of goodwill in Brantford after decades of donations and devotion to his hometown. This city, like Canada, may have found its limit.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON (on camera): Erin, you know, in this trade war between Canada and the United States, even if there is some kind of a pause, a ceasefire for the time being, many doubt as to whether or not that will affect how they feel about Wayne Gretzky, and right now, his friendship with the U.S. president -- Erin.
BURNETT: Paula, thank you so much.
And next, the E.U. taking on Elon Musk. And Harry Enten is here to tell us something we don't know about Musk. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:57:33]
BURNETT: Breaking news, the E.U. is preparing sanctions against Elon Musk and specifically X that could cost $1 billion. Now, this is according to reporting tonight in "The New York Times", regulators accusing X of allowing disinformation to spread on the platform, the latest in a series of losses for the world's richest man and the right hand of President Trump.
Harry Enten is OUTFRONT to tell us something or to tell me at least something I don't know.
I don't know people watching may already know this, okay, I said, okay. Musk is having a difficult time. Obviously starting off with the Wisconsin Supreme Court race and you have found something out about his popularity.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Yeah. All right. So, let's talk -- let's talk about a bunch of things here first. You know, we could talk about his popularity if we want to get to that slide. And what we essentially see in terms of his popularity is that his popularity has an approval rating.
Well, actually, let's go to Tesla car deliveries first. We'll talk about this first. Look at this. Look at this drop, Erin. Look at this drop.
What we see is up 6 percent in the quarter three then up 2 percent then down 13 percent in 2025. Quarter one. You don't have to be a genius to know that. That trend line is pretty bad. In fact, this past quarter for Tesla was the worst quarterly drop compared to the year prior on record on record for Tesla.
BURNETT: I'm going to apologize because I had an -- I had an old copy and I went with the wrong question. And I'm like, well, you clearly don't want to talk about his popularity yet, so let's hold it off.
ENTEN: Yes.
BURNETT: Okay. Tesla. So, he -- Trump says that he wants Musk to stay in the administration as long as he humanly can. But you know, this whole special purpose government employee limits you to a certain number of days, whatever, however they're going to count that. The public does not necessarily agree, though, with Trump's desire to keep Musk in the house.
ENTEN: No, I don't think so. I mean, take a look at Musk's net approval rating. Now, we'll get to his popularity. Take a look here, his net approval rating in terms of the administration.
Look at this drop from December of 2024. It was minus three points. People are giving Musk the benefit of the doubt, right? Look at where it dropped to now, minus 18 points. That is a 15-point drop over just a few months. The more people get to know about Musk and the job he's doing, the less they like it. They want Musk. Adios, amigos.
BURNETT: So how does he stack up against other Trump officials?
ENTEN: Yeah, let me tell you --
BURNETT: Tell me something I don't know.
ENTEN: You took the words right out of my mouth. I'll tell you something you don't know. Let's display them all up on the screen. And what do we see? He is the least popular out of any of the major figures in the Trump White House.
Rubio is right there at the even mark. Trump was minus two in the latest Fox News poll. How about Vance might say, look where Musk is all the way down at minus 18 points. He is by far the least liked person in the Trump White House.
BURNETT: Wow.
ENTEN: He is a drag on Donald Trump. And the question is how many more Scaramucci can he last there?
BURNETT: Incredible.
All right. Thank you so much, Harry.
ENTEN: Thank you.
BURNETT: And thanks so much to all of you for being with us.
"AC360" begins now.
