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Erin Burnett Outfront

White House: "Trust In President Trump, He Knows What He's Doing"; Chinese Float New Bargaining Chip, U.S. Admiral Warns War Inevitable; Who Is Steve Witkoff?. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired April 11, 2025 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:34]

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:

Breaking news on this Friday: consumer sentiment plummets, the dollar crushed, recession fears growing, but is the solution from the White House tonight apparently is to trust Trump.

Plus, breaking news, a tense showdown over the Maryland father mistakenly deported. Trump officials, claiming they don't even know where he is. After the Supreme Court demanded Trump facilitate the man's return. His attorney is our guest.

Also breaking tonight, Trump's envoy just meeting with Putin for more than four hours. The same person that Trump is sending to broker a peace deal with Iran and in the Middle East. Who is Steve Witkoff? Why is a former real estate lawyer the face of American diplomacy?

Let's go OUTFRONT.

And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.

OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news, countdown. Every minute now counts as the world waits to see if Trump and China can stop a market collapse. Stock just closed, up a bit after what has been one of the most volatile periods on record for Wall Street.

Stocks now, all in, down more than 4,000 points since Trump declared a trade war on the whole world. More than 4,000 points, despite all these gyrations and that big day that went up earlier this week. Look at the wild swings since April 3rd.

Now, the drops that you're looking at here are not measured in hundreds, but obviously thousands of points. A crisis made by one man that has now become an exponentially explosive war.

Here's how Trump has ramped up the tariffs on China. Just perspective here. February 1st, it was 10 percent. And then boom, you know, the economic equivalent of a bomb cyclone, 54 percent. And then 145 percent in a week.

I mean, look at that. That isn't giving anyone a chance to breathe or respond or do anything. That's just explosive escalation, a move of such ferocity that it could only be met in kind. And Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt is now asking Americans to put

their faith in Trump on solving it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: So, trust in President Trump. He knows what he's doing. This is a proven economic formula.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Is she talking about tariffs?

Okay, I have not spoken to any investors or CEOs right now who will say in private that they trust President Trump. And none who would call mass tariffs like this a tried and true formula. That that they would say publicly.

And as for China, just look at the blistering pace from the Chinese embassy. Give the bully an inch. He will take a mile. And then this post I thought very interesting -- ally and adversary alike perhaps can relate, showing an American hitting another person in the face. The text says don't retaliate, you'll get rewarded.

So, the person opens up their mouth to get the lollipop from an American, and the American just punches him in the face again.

Well, when you look at it that way, Trump may be sitting on hold for quite some time when it comes for that call from President Xi Jinping.

And we've been showing you through the week what's viral on Chinese social media as sort of a tell for the context that surrounds Xi Jinping right now. Look at these viral posts, image after image of Trump just waiting by the phone, hoping Xi will call. And they're putting those out there.

It makes you wonder if they've read Trump's "Art of the Deal", in which Trump writes, the worst thing you can possibly do in a deal is seem desperate to make it. That makes the other guy smell blood and then you're dead.

Does China smell blood?

CNN reporting that the administration has told the Chinese privately that she should request a call with Trump, but instead Xi's response was to raise tariffs on the United States and warned that his nation is, quote, not afraid.

All of this creating horrible uncertainty. Just listen to the CEO of JPMorgan Chase, Jamie Dimon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMIE DIMON, CEO, JPMORGAN CHASE: The China issue is a major issue. I don't know how that's going to turn out.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: That's the honest answer. I haven't heard anybody who says they know how it's going to turn out. They don't know. Thats why we're seeing the wild swings on Wall Street.

The CEO of BlackRock, Larry Fink, the world's largest asset manager, today said that the uncertainty out there rivals what he saw both during the 2008 financial crisis and during COVID. Remember what that was like?

I mean, COVID, you were checking what the death rate was every day of how deadly the virus was. Talk about not knowing what profitability would be. To liken this to that is a significant statement. Alarm bells are going off once again.

And today, consumer confidence plummeting, now at its second lowest level since they started keeping records. Context there really matters. That means it is the second lowest level since 1952.

The only time it was lower was COVID, and the U.S. dollar is now at a three-year low.

[19:05:00]

The U.S. dollar is something that Americans should be proud of. It is the world's dominant currency since World War II, because it stands for safety, stability, the rule of law and leadership, all of which have been called into question.

And the U.S. bond market, the bedrock of global financial markets, is breaking in slow motion, as an investor told me today, the yield on the ten-year treasury, which should go down at a time of turmoil as investors seek a safety, is up sharply and suddenly interest rates going up.

As one investor tonight told me, quote: It feels like someone is trying to destroy instantly the dollar and the post-World War II system. And they told me, I don't know what it is that is causing this slow motion breaking in the system, and nobody knows what it is.

All right. We're going to break out the whiteboard in just a moment to take a closer look at this.

But we want to begin with Jeff Zeleny OUTFRONT first, live at the White House.

And, Jeff, we keep hearing that refrain, as the press secretary said there, coming from this administration, trust Trump. He knows what he's doing. This is a tried and true formula.

Do they really believe that people trust him on this?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Erin, that is the central question. And, of course, the true believers do believe that. But when you look at that metric of consumer confidence, that is such a key point. Its why I asked the press secretary today, why is -- why is consumer confidence so low? And she pointed back to trust the president from what he did in the first term.

But this is something altogether different. We did not see this in the first term. So, consumer confidence obviously is related to consumer spending. And we have not even seen the uptick in prices to a large degree that we're going to see in the result of a trade war.

So that is why you talk to Republican officials, again, people who want the president to do well, never mind his critics, of which there are many. But the people who would like him to do well are concerned here. As we end another week at this White House and boy, what a week it was.

There is no clear policy going forward, particularly on China, the trade war. Who will blink first? That is very unclear.

But in terms of what actual Americans are thinking, that consumer sentiment, it's down 30 percent since December. So, yes, the president won by a wide margin. He won the popular vote. But when you track consumer sentiment down 30 percent by November, that shows that people are rejecting his policies at the moment.

So, he is on his way to Florida right now. He'll be spending a working weekend in Mar-a-Lago. And, of course, all these trade deals are waiting for him when he gets back here -- Erin.

BURNETT: Jeff Zeleny, thank you very much, at the White House.

And everyone's with me here.

Peter Tuchman, roller coaster of a week. So, you know, where -- where are we as we -- as we end the day? You know, it's your face again that goes up. People looking at your -- your sentiment at the close up a bit today. But of course, the tale is a tale of destruction over the past week.

PETER TUCHMAN, TRADER AT THE NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE: There's a good -- there's a good shot, you know -- I don't know if I was waiting for the birds to come or I was praying, but, you know, it's been a -- it's been a really wild week up and down.

And I agree with, with Mr. Fink that the last time you felt this kind of anxiety around the floor of the exchange where you really -- look, you're right in, you're at the crossroads of everything there, information and stocks and trading and volume and -- and anxiety. And was COVID, right?

You know, it was that -- as we walked around, what -- what day was it this week were we actually got down. We sold off 6.38 percent. We were three quarters of a point away from a circuit breaker. That feeling is not a great feeling. That feeling is one where you're really --

BURNETT: Sickening feeling, right? Yeah.

TUCHMAN: It's a feeling of implosion. And, you know, I have to admit, as everyone knows, every may not know this, but the floor of the exchange are -- are forever Trumpers, right? There is a large contingent of forever Trumpers on the floor, and they are still actually walking around believing that this is going to work out, that were right where were supposed to believe.

BURNETT: They do believe.

TUCHMAN: They do. They do believe it. And for me, it's a bit -- it's a bit curious because I guess everyone's got to look at their portfolio or their 401(k), and anybody has to look at it, and it's down 10, 20 or more percent. And they've got to wonder.

I'm not sure that people -- you talked about consumer confidence and how low it is. I'm not sure there are people are upset about policy. I think they're more upset about this lack of trust. What happened this week was a real breakdown, especially when we were talking with Richard last week about what happened with the bond market and -- and --

BURNETT: So --

TUCHMAN: That -- we were at the crossroads of some real damage, right? That was that.

BURNETT: Okay, I'm going to --

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR AT LARGE: It's going to happen.

BURNETT: Here it comes. I gave you back your phone. Okay. Because the bond market is crucial, right? We talk about stability of the -- we talk all of it comes down to this, okay. So, I had -- I thought about this, Richard.

QUEST: Go on.

BURNETT: Okay. In times of turmoil, now I have to write it so they can see it. So let me just -- okay. In times of turmoil.

QUEST: Yeah.

BURNETT: All right. Usually. Usually.

QUEST: Yeah.

BURNETT: Okay. My marker is out of ink, guys. I'm going to switch to red.

QUEST: Oh.

BURNETT: Oh, that is an epic problem. Sign of the times.

Okay, so usually what happens in a time of turmoil, usually, I'm underlining your bond market, right? People are going to be -- they're all scared of stocks.

[19:10:01]

They're scared of whatever bonds are going to go up. More demand for debt means you don't have to pay as much for it.

Interest rates go down. Thats the whole thing. Thats the way the system works. That's it.

QUEST: Classic.

BURNETT: Here's what happened this week. Broken. It didn't happen. It didn't happen.

TUCHMAN: Buyers turned sellers.

BURNETT: The buyers turned sellers. So, it means they're selling stocks. They're selling that, okay, so then I write here the big, big why.

All right. Now hold on. Let me write them down here. Let me write it down because I know you want to get in here.

Okay. Who owns those bonds in general? Who owns them? Americans. The biggest owner of U.S. treasuries. Okay, but then let's just list them out. Japan.

TUCHMAN: China.

BURNETT: China. This is according to the U.S. Treasury. And I'm writing here, China mainland. And that's really important because UK.

QUEST: Institutions.

BURNETT: Yep. Luxembourg, Cayman Islands. Okay. And Belgium.

All right, everybody, one, two, three, four, five, six, I'm going to combine Luxembourg, Cayman Islands and Belgium. They're not all China. Plenty of that money is China.

I do that. I add that to China. I'm going to get by far the number one, by far the number one.

So, I know nobody knows Richard who is coming in and messing up this system that works keeps things in equilibrium and results in lower interest rates and lower borrowing costs in times of turmoil. And having it go the opposite direction. But I would bet that a very reasonable answer to this mystery could be the country with the most to benefit from this happening.

QUEST: Well, the shenanigans of the Chinese messing around, even though it would cost them dear in their own pocket.

BURNETT: Right.

QUEST: But -- but the strategic benefit of them doing that is important. And I was talking to the both the German finance minister today, and I was talking to Richard Clarida.

And the other issue, of course, is the system itself is under pressure. The selling margin system. People are having to sell out, they're having to liquidate certain U.S. dollar assets to pay. If you take all this look, the ability for China now to absolutely cause havoc and mayhem is huge on that.

BURNETT: And it comes at a cost. It's huge.

Now, there could be an investors will say to me, they say okay, you know, there's -- there's -- there's mayhem. Dan, I'll bring you in here. You know, they say there's mayhem and maybe there's hedge funds that are caught in the wrong side of this. There could be other reasons causing this breakdown, because in a moment of incredible stress, sometimes things break down, right? And you don't know why.

But I find that amazing that right now, we can make our guesses. But in the most liquid and large market in the world, the U.S. treasury market, it actually is a mystery at this moment. And is China pushing the lever that will push Trump's hand?

QUEST: What does Dan think?

DAN IVES, GLOBAL HEAD OF TECHNOLOGY RESEARCH, WEDBUSH SECURITIES: I mean, Erin, it comes down to you can bully the bond market and the ten year speaks volumes. And when you look at the ten year and you look what's happened to the dollar and the Michigan consumer confidence, that's the trifecta disaster. And ultimately in the White House, they're ultimately going to be forced to negotiate with China because you're playing with fire here.

And the reality is, is that and you're seeing stocks had a good day today. But it's all hopes that over the weekend you have some positives. On the negotiations with China because it's the real economic cost that's now coming to the U.S. consumer and the economy. And it's the hearts and lungs of the U.S. supply chain.

BURNETT: So, so, Astead, you know, it was the bond market that caused Trump to fold such that he did earlier this week, because I just want to be clear, a 10 percent tariff on the rest of the world is still the highest since Smoot-Hawley. I mean, you know, but and then escalated on China. So, now, you've got this situation here continuing.

This is what could force his hand. I mean, do they feel that pressure?

ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: This is a unique White House and that their political project has been partially to insulate themselves from that public pressure? The reason they're so intent about the expansion of executive authority, the reason they have had a kind of political worldview that is kind of thumbing its nose as Congress is, partially because they have wanted to push these fights. They wanted to push the pressure points of not only our political system, but our economic system, and tariffs were always a kind of key part of that.

You know, the White House is saying they trust Trump is kind of their mantra for voters. And we should say that trust is the reason he's back in the White House, right? Like last year, we heard more about grocery prices, about eggs than any other thing on the campaign trail. And it was Trump's perceived competence on that issue that allowed him to come back.

What's changed now, and that's true in the numbers, I think particularly true since his tariff announcement, so-called Liberation Day, is that trust has been eroded, I think, as you were mentioning. And as we go back to these voters, some of the folks we met last year, they are not only concerned about the prospect of inflation, but also just about the chaos and the way that that has caused uncertainty in their jobs and their lives and ultimately possibly in their pocketbooks.

BURNETT: How much is resting on this weekend, though?

TUCHMAN: Look, weekends have been -- we've seen one great one, one bad one, right? We came in one weekend at two weekends ago, and the talk was that we were going to pinpoint the tariffs are going to be very isolated. It'll be sort of a soft landing around the --

[19:15:01]

BURNETT: Onion layer --

TUCHMAN: We were -- we came in. We were up a thousand points last weekend. There was so much negative talk. Weekends can be like the perfect storm.

We came in Sunday. The futures opened down 1,500 points. Hang Seng, all of Europe. They were all down limit before we even opened our market, right? And by the time we opened, everyone was talking about Black Monday, Black Monday that they thought we were going to open down like we had done during COVID, where we opened down 7 percent. We automatically go into a circuit breaker.

You're so right. Everything you said, you know, it's -- it's -- they -- they're thumbing. I don't think they -- I think they're underestimating how bright the investment and trading community are to have seen what he did since February 19th. We were trading at record highs.

In six weeks, he's eroded 7 trillion plus dollars. And they're seeing it in their -- in their 401(k)s that are now maybe a 101k.

QUEST: Right. The most depressing part about this having covered it now, and we've all -- around this table, we've got enough financial crises under our belts. But the most depressing part about it is we know what we're seeing. The dollar doesn't go down 3 percent for no reason. The bond market doesn't behave like that for no reason.

The tariffs, general tariffs across the world has -- is a discredited policy of decades. It is downright depressing that we have to sit here and parse the nonsense that comes along with this.

BURNETT: And, Dan, the price increases from what you look at, and as you cover some of the biggest tech stocks in the world, you think those are happening really could start now, right? Could start Monday, could start -- what's your expectation of when that starts to come through the system? IVES: I think as inventory works, right? I mean, this weekend, you're

going to start to see and into next week. And that's where the consumers start to see it. And I can tell you it's really chaos when it comes to pricing because no one's absorbing this.

And it comes down to it's the U.S. consumer that's going to pay for it. And that's why, look, this weekend, enjoy the Masters, because on Sunday night you need good news after Masters done that, there's some negotiation, at least improvement when it comes to China. Otherwise, Monday, buckle the seat belts, a dark day it could be nice.

BURNETT: Astead, I think that price increase is going to be the tangible difference from when we talk to voters, right? Theres some sense of the chaos, but if they start seeing that kind of price increase, I think they expected Donald Trump to focus on when he got into office. It becomes a causal relationship with his signature economic policy.

But I think it's important to also remember there's not an imminent decision on voters' hands right now, right? So even though there is a sense of political backlash or Donald Trump's unpopularity goes up, there's not an actual kind of recourse for right now.

And we should also say that the kind of structures in place are such that were really talking about the standard being what's going to make GOP primary voters pressure their own members of Congress to really push back against Trump. And we should acknowledge, we haven't really seen that on a lot of issues.

That has how high the bar is, the kind of cross, the partisanship barrier we're in. But what the realities are such that we could see it, right? Like if those prices do increase, I wouldn't put it out of the question that those GOP members do start to feel some heat.

BURNETT: It was really incredible.

TUCHMAN: This weekend and their constituency starts screaming at them and yelling at them that they've looked at their pension funds and they are really down 20 percent. And that's not what this gentleman promised us.

He promised us, you know, a robust balance sheet and a super solid economy. He was handed a really nice box with a nice bow. It was -- it was, you know, to such a point where at the end, the last Fed meeting in November, right, the Fed changed their guidance for '25 and '26 to only two cuts projected for '25, not because things were bad, because things were good.

And so, it's not even me that thinks it was. It was a good economy, good market. It's -- we all saw that.

BURNETT: And the Fed --

TUCHMAN: When -- when the baton was passed, it was in good condition. And six weeks later, we're sitting here talking about destruction of the economy. BURNETT: Dan, I know you were trying to get in here. Final word?

IVES: I'd also say we're going to have to expand that whiteboard going into Monday if these prices increase.

BURNETT: Yeah. I mean, price increases, and even bigger whiteboard. I mean, I went up with a big sigh.

IVES: We're going to have to get a bigger whiteboard. I think big whiteboard on Monday.

BURNETT: Order it now, Dan. Order it now.

Thank you all very much.

TUCHMAN: Order before the tariffs.

BURNETT: And next, China taking advantage of Trump's trade war. A top U.S. commander warning it's no longer if but when China invades Taiwan. I mean, just think about -- think about where we are here. What does this say?

Fareed Zakaria is next.

Plus, breaking news tonight, a judge grilling the administration today on the whereabouts of that Maryland man who the Supreme Court said must be returned after he was mistakenly deported to El Salvador. The man's attorney is our guest.

And six women on the verge of making history blasting into space. We're going to talk to one of them. Aisha Bowe, a former NASA rocket scientist, about the trip.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:24:22]

BURNETT: Tonight, as fears grow over a trade war that's spiraling out of control, a top U.S. commander issuing an urgent warning about China. Admiral Samuel Paparo, the commander of U.S. Indo-Pacific Command, saying it's likely when, not if, China invades Taiwan.

It may be some sort of saying the quiet part out loud, but saying that is incredibly significant coming from him. He says Chinas increasingly aggressive military drills near Taiwan, quote, are not just exercises, they are rehearsals.

Will Ripley is OUTFRONT in Taipei.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On China's tightly controlled social media, censors are letting nationalist voices grow louder.

[19:25:01] If China can keep the 125 percent tariff for three months, then we won't have any issues taking back Taiwan. Since China and the U.S. have already severed economic and trade relations, why not take this opportunity to recover Taiwan? We need a civil war to divert attention. Recovering Taiwan cannot be delayed any longer.

JIA WEN-JI, FORMER TAIWANESE DIPLOMAT, TV INFLUENCER: At this time, China is confronting the United States and has seized the best opportunity.

RIPLEY: Nationalist influencers are framing democratic, self-governing Taiwan as leverage, even though China's communist leaders have never controlled it. Fuel for Chinas escalating trade war with the U.S.

And China feels emboldened. Its top electric vehicle maker, BYD, is now outselling Tesla and doesn't even bother selling passenger cars to the U.S., a sign Beijing doesn't fear economic isolation.

Some in China even see this trade war as a dress rehearsal, testing how resilient the country's economy might be if there ever were a real war for Taiwan.

JIA: China is united from top to bottom. Politically speaking, this system is very superior.

RIPLEY: This week, China's foreign ministry posted a quote from former Chinese leader Mao Zedong from the Korean War era, the last time China and the U.S. clashed directly on the battlefield.

Back then, Mao made his position clear China would not bend to American pressure.

Today, Chinese President Xi Jinping also wants to project strength to Washington and his own people. For Beijing, this isn't just about pride. It's about power. And Taiwan's chip industry may be the prize.

Behind these walls, some of the world's most advanced, highly secretive technology. It's so secret you have to check your phone, your laptop, anything that emits a signal just to walk through the door.

I visited Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company last year. TSMC makes most of the world's advanced microchips.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As you know, Taiwan pretty much has a monopoly on that market.

RIPLEY: Last month, TSMC announced a $165 billion U.S. investment, a political win for U.S. President Donald Trump. But in Taiwan, it triggered alarm for some.

TAMMY CHAO, RETIREE: Trump is flipping the whole world upside down, and TSMC is Taiwan's treasure. I don't feel it's safe. He's a businessman, so he'll deal Taiwan.

RIPLEY: Right now, both leaders are playing hardball. Trump says he's ready to talk, but only if Xi makes the first move.

But Beijing reacts differently. No call initiated, no compromise made. A dangerous standoff where protocol and pride are getting in the way of diplomacy.

And as the world's two biggest economies wait each other out. Ordinary people here in Taiwan worry what might get traded away in a deal made by two powerful men, each too proud to pick up the phone.

Will Ripley, CNN, Taipei.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT: All right. Fareed Zakaria is OUTFRONT now, the host of "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS".

So, Fareed, you know, while Will was reporting and, you know, Will -- Will and I on the show together so many times and most of his reports go to bars and tone in China, most of the time they censor them. They did not censor this. A report about a potential invasion of Taiwan, beginning with a U.S. general saying that they are not practicing, that they are -- they are literally rehearsing. But these aren't drills and they don't censor it.

What is really at stake here tonight?

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": These are the highest stakes. And the Trump administration has badly bungled this. The greatest deterrent to a Chinese invasion of Taiwan, which would send, you know, seismic ripples through the world economy, through the international political system. The greatest deterrent was not any weapon we had. It was the fear that China had that they would be decoupled from the American economy, the economy with which they had for the last 40 years built a deep, interdependent relationship.

Trump has fired that gun pointlessly, without a plan, without a strategy, as far as I can tell that the tariffs on China were raised to 145 percent simply because he wanted to save face. You know, he was -- he was backtracking and flip flopping on all the other tariffs. So, he needed to turn China into the -- into his punching bag.

But because of that, what he has done is play into Chinas hardliners hands. They have been waiting for this decoupling. They practiced it during COVID. They practiced it during the Shanghai lockdown. And now, what they're going to say is, look, if we go into Taiwan, what do we have to lose? Weve already been cut off from the American market.

[19:30:01]

BURNETT: I mean, it is stunning to consider that this may be where this goes. You talk about the -- the path from tariffs to war. A precipitous one.

You know, in China. I want to just show this Will Ripley, you know, showed that post that the foreign ministry recently posted on X. So this post, Fareed, has now 13 million views. So, what it's of is the former leader, Mao Zedong, speaking during the Korean war era. Now, that is the last time the Korean War, when China and America were actually at physical war, clashing on a battlefield, right? That's being posted now. And he says in part, Mao, no matter how long

this war lasts, we will never yield. And that is trending now in China.

You know, I know this feeds into what you're talking about, but -- but the symbolism here is so culturally significant.

ZAKARIA: The beginning of China's modern history that every schoolchild is taught in history books is that China was forced and humiliated by western powers, including the United States, in the 19th century, and had to back down and had to accept humiliation and a kind of neocolonial arrangement with the foreign powers. And the message of Chinese history is never yield like that again. We will never allow ourselves to be put in a position like that.

Look, the Chinese have a fairly strong hand. A lot of the things the United States imports from China are precursors to chemical to chemical, you know, pharmacy drugs chemicals, minerals, these are all core things, computer chips. I think I saw one, one, one number that said 60 percent of the chips. We -- we import our Chinese chips. We need that stuff. It's not going to be easy to find it somewhere else. You can't find rare earth all over the world.

The Chinese, on the other hand, are a lot of what they get from us agriculture, soybeans, things like that they can get from elsewhere. And most importantly, don't forget, China is a dictatorship. Xi Jinping doesn't have to worry about public opinion in quite the same way that Donald Trump has to worry about it.

BURNETT: No, you also just came out with an op-ed, Fareed, and you talk about the tariffs. And in this you write about your own context on it. Growing up in India, a country obviously riddled with tariffs and -- and where, I mean, no business could survive of any size. It was all about what kind of government handout you were getting or who you know, you were. It was just -- it was corruption.

You go on to say, when I got to America, I was thrilled to see that most businesses went about their work with little care as to who was in the White House. But now I watch tech pioneers give interviews slavishly extolling Trump's genius and Wall Street titans race to post North Korea style congratulations to the president for his brilliance in rescuing the economy from his own actions, I wonder what country am I living in?

You know, how significant is this moment for you, Fareed, as you see this?

ZAKARIA: It's a very sad moment, honestly, because to me, you know, as a kid coming to coming to America, America was the, you know, the city on the hill, the shining example of how a modern economy should work.

You have a market, you have rules. You have laws. You know, everybody plays by them. It doesn't matter whether you know, the prime minister or the president, you know, a senator, that wasn't important. What was important was the merit. Did you have a good product? Could

you sell it to people?

And now when you look at the orgy of corruption that is going to be unleashed. We have studies already from the first Trump term, firms that gave money to Republicans got more exemptions than firms that gave money to Democrats. You know, already you have Vietnam saying, we're going to were going to expedite the Trump Organization's project, real estate projects are being signed in 19 countries with the Trump Organization right now.

You know, all of it says to you that this is an economy where political favor, knowing people, all that has become the key, not the market, which was the glory of American -- of the -- of America, the American economy.

BURNETT: All right. Fareed, thank you very much. And I just want to show everyone what is on screen right now in China as this report aired, as I said, this is this is just when Fareed -- when Fareed was talking about Mao Zedong, when we had that

particular part of the conversation, it went to bars. Fareed, the rest of the conversation, Will Ripley's report, all of that, they did not censor.

I say that just to emphasize the closeness with which they are watching this and making these decisions. So, the part about invading Taiwan, they obviously wanted that to go out there now. It was censored, obviously, during the Mao Zedong comments.

Next, the breaking news, a tense hearing today for the Maryland man mistakenly sent to a notorious prison in El Salvador. That's where he was sent. But the administration now says they don't know where he is. His attorney is next.

Plus, Steve Witkoff's high stakes four-hour meeting with Putin just wrapping up. And now, Witkoff is on his way to deal with Iran this weekend. So why is Trump giving so much power to a real estate developer who until now had had absolutely no diplomatic experience?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Breaking news in the case of the Maryland father who was mistakenly deported to a brutal supermax prison in El Salvador. The Trump administration tonight saying it does not even know where Kilmar Abrego Garcia is. That's after they said he went to the notorious prison there.

The Supreme Court ordered Trump must facilitate his return. And in a tense court hearing that just ended, a judge asked, where is he? The judge -- the Justice Department, I'm sorry, replied, quote, I do not have that information provided to me.

Well, the judge calling the DOJ's response extremely troubling and considering that they had said he was in this prison, the prison in El Salvador, that our David Culver is reported from so extensively, it wouldn't make sense that they wouldn't know where he is now. These are some of the images that David Culver, of course, has captured there.

I want to go straight to David. He's just returned from the prison right now, is in West Palm Beach, Florida, where the president is just landing, just touching down.

[19:40:06]

David, you just came back from El Salvador, and now they say that the Trump administration says they don't know where Abrego Garcia is. They continue to say that he's a member of the gang, MS- 13, even though they have not shared any evidence to that. His family says, of course, that he's just a Maryland father. So, Salvadoran officials you're speaking to, what are they saying?

DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Publicly, Erin, they're not mentioning any specific deportee or their case. They won't go into any detail. But I have had several conversations with senior government officials down there, and I've had two in particular tell me that they have what they describe as further evidence that incriminates Abrego Garcia. One even telling me he's not going anywhere.

So that's how adamant they are about this. When I asked to see the evidence, they wouldn't provide it to us. They have shown no proof so far. And of course, you're going to speak with Abrego Garcia's attorney here in a moment. And that legal team has said that that's simply not true, that it's a lie that they've put out there.

But I think it raises questions, obviously, as we continue to look at what people are saying in in the sense of innocence being caught up in this deportee push into CECOT, that that notorious prison. And I asked the public security minister about that. I said, is it possible that you have innocent people who have been swept up in this, and how do you respond to those claims?

Again, he wouldn't speak specifically to Abrego Garcia, but this is what he told me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUSTAVO VILLATORO, EL SALVADOR JUSTICE AND PUBLIC SECURITY MINISTER: It's very common that some people say, no, he's innocent. But the problem is your background talk --

CULVER: For you.

VILLATORO: Right.? You can say, Gustavo, I am not a member of -- okay, but what's what happened with your record, with your criminal records?

CULVER: You had these records.

VILLATORO: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CULVER: So, one of the biggest questions here, Erin, if President Trump says to President Bukele, I want him back, will El Salvador comply? I think when you -- when you look at it from a very simple perspective, president does not want to deteriorate the relationship between the U.S. and El Salvador. And so, if he is asked directly and there's an opportunity for that question to be asked on Monday when the two leaders are going to meet in Washington, then it's very likely El Salvador will go forward with that because they really have nothing to lose domestically.

Even when I spoken to folks on the ground and I asked about Abrego Garcia, they say who? They're not really familiar with that case. So even though perhaps they don't want to be seen as giving a gang member up as they perceive that individual to be, they likely would go forward with that, to keep the U.S. relationship strong.

BURNETT: All right, David Culver, thank you very much. As I said, just back and now to West Palm Beach. Thank you.

And I want to go now to Simon Sandoval-Moshenberg, the attorney for Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the father mistakenly deported to El Salvador.

So, Simon, okay, he was sent to CECOT prison. We know that. They told us that. But today in the hearing, the DOJ lawyers told the judge they have no idea where Garcia is or how he's doing. Obviously, he is in prison than his name is in the prison. El Salvador has a very good relationship with this administration.

It would seem to be hard to imagine that they actually don't know if he's in that prison or not. Does this make sense to you?

SIMON SANDOVAL-MOSHENBERG, ATTORNEY FOR FATHER WHITE HOUSE SAYS WAS DEPORTED DUE TO "CLERICAL ERROR": Yeah. So unfortunately, the government today chose to play the exact same game that they played last week at the first hearing in this case, which is send a lawyer into court with no information whatsoever.

The lawyer today didn't say that the government doesn't know where Kilmar is. He said that he doesn't know where Kilmar is because no one has told him.

And the judge was incredibly frustrated, as were we. And she made clear that she's not going to accept that game going forward.

BURNETT: Right. So you're saying basically he may have been telling the truth. He didn't know, but the whole point was they made sure he didn't know.

So, so -- I want to just play for you. The White House press secretary was asked about, you know, whether they will follow through on this order to bring Garcia home. And I want to play the response for you, because the rhetoric in here is obviously so crucial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: The president of El Salvador is coming to the White House on Monday. Does president Trump want him to bring Kilmar Abrego Garcia with him? LEAVITT: The Supreme Court made their ruling last night very clear

that its the administration's responsibility to facilitate the return, not to effectuate the return. President Bukele will be here at the White House on Monday to talk about the cooperation that is at an all- time high.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Simon, do the words facilitate and effectuate have different meanings in the context of returning a deportee who was wrongly brought out of the United States?

SANDOVAL-MOSHENBERG: As the judge explained in her order after the Supreme Court's unanimous ruling in favor of my client, all those mean is that the government has to take every reasonable step that's available to it.

[19:45:00]

And that's all we've ever been asking. And I just don't know how long, how much longer they're going to play this charade of, well, there's nothing we can do here when they still haven't tried anything. And that's -- what the judge is going to put an end to the next hearing on Tuesday.

BURNETT: So, on Monday, though, Bukele is going to be at the White House. And you heard David Culver's reporting that officials in El Salvador are saying, oh, they've got proof he's in the MS-13 gang, and there is no way they're going to let him go. What does that mean to you?

SANDOVAL-MOSHENBERG: You know, I don't think anyone actually believes that. I think if the government actually believed that this was some big-time gang leader, they would have made sure to file evidence of that into the case. And, you know, as the district judge said from the beginning, she can only rule based on the evidence in the case, and there's no evidence of gang participation whatsoever.

I think you really hit the nail on the head that there's no way that the government of El Salvador is going to ruin its relationship with its most important ally. You know, if we ask for Kilmar back, they're going to give Kilmar back. That's really all there is to it. So that's all we have to do.

BURNETT: Yeah, I mean, it does seem to be a pretty basic thing when it comes down to it. Simon, thank you very much. I appreciate your time.

SANDOVAL-MOSHENBERG: Good to be here.

BURNETT: All right. And next, we have breaking news. Trump's envoy, Steve Witkoff just met with Putin for a four-hour meeting and is going now to nuclear talks with Iran. And he's doing it all pretty much by himself on his own jet. So, who is Steve Witkoff?

And I'm going to speak to one of the women about to make history on board an all-female space flight, coming up after the weekend. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:50:40]

BURNETT: Breaking news, Trump envoy Steve Witkoff just leaving Russia. He met with Vladimir Putin for more than four hours about the war in Ukraine. It came just shortly after Trump posted this message for Putin himself, quote, Russia has to get moving. Too many people are dying, thousands a week in a terrible and senseless war.

Wikoff is now heading from Russia to nuclear talks with Iran tomorrow.

So, who is this person who has been entrusted with peace in the Middle East, peace in Europe, the Iranian nuclear deal?

Alex Marquardt is OUTFRONT with how a New York real estate developer rose to become Trump's most important diplomat.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEXANDER MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): This is the first time we've seen images of Vladimir Putin meeting with a U.S. official in almost four years. This U.S. official Steve Witkoff is different and is making a habit of this, sitting down with Putin for the third time just this year. It comes amid a flurry of new contact between the U.S. and Russia, which so far has made little progress at ending the war in Ukraine.

It's being led by Witkoff, who's a longtime friend and donor of Donald Trump's and a fellow New York billionaire real estate developer. Despite zero diplomatic experience, Trump tapped Witkoff to be his envoy to the Middle East.

TRUMP: Steve Witkoff, who's just got back from the Middle East, and he's done a fantastic job. He's a -- he's a great dealmaker.

MARQUARDT: It's a huge job, which only got bigger when he took on the Russia portfolio. And this weekend, Witkoff is set to add more, meeting with Iran's foreign minister to try to hash out a new nuclear deal. Iran's nuclear program, the Russia-Ukraine war, and a ceasefire in Gaza, each a monumental task on its own.

And Witkoff appears to be doing much of it himself, traveling around the world on his own private jet, with little to no staff or officials with him.

STEVE WITKOFF, TRUMP ENVOY: I don't want to put -- put words in President Putin's mouth, but I think he's indicated that he accepts what -- he accepts the philosophy of President Trump.

MARQUARDT: Many observers of Putin and Russia fear they're playing Witkoff and not actually interested in peace.

TUCKER CARLSON, TV HOST: What did you think of him?

WITKOFF: I liked him. CARLSON: Yeah.

WITKOFF: I thought he was straight up with me. In the second visit that I had, you know, it got personal. The president, President Putin, had commissioned a beautiful portrait of President Trump from the leading Russian artist and actually gave it to me and asked me to take it home to President Trump, which I brought home and delivered to him.

MARQUARDT: Trump is increasingly frustrated with the lack of progress in Ukraine, and now, Witkoff's main accomplishment so far, the ceasefire in Gaza has fallen apart, with Israel resuming military operations against Hamas.

WITKOFF: I would encourage Hamas to get much more sensible than how they have been.

MARQUARDT: Trump and Witkoff met in the 1980s. Like Trump, he has now moved to Florida. His son, Zach, is a co-founder of a cryptocurrency company that's backed by Trump and his sons. Crypto site Coindesk reported today that the company recently lost $125 million.

Few had heard of Witkoff when he was out golfing with Trump last September, when a gunman fired shots, and Witkoff watched Secret Service spring into action.

WITKOFF: The entire team converged on top of him, except for the snipers.

MARQUARDT: Now, he's the toast of the foreign policy world, seen by global leaders as the best way into Trump, overshadowing the secretary of state, Marco Rubio, who does not have as close a relationship.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUARDT (on camera): Theres no question that Secretary Rubio has to compete with Steve Witkoff for some of the biggest foreign policy assignments in this administration. But the two men insist that they get along well. And really, there's not much that Rubio can do about it because of how close Steve Witkoff is to President Trump.

The fact that Witkoff is expected to go straight from this four-plus hour meeting with Vladimir Putin to nuclear talks with Iran tomorrow really makes clear how valued he is by the president.

But, Erin, it also emphasizes how the Trump administration is handling the biggest national security issues of the day -- Erin.

BURNETT: It certainly does. Alex, thank you very much.

And next, we're going to speak to a former NASA rocket scientist who's about to make history going to space. Wait until you hear.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:59:15] BURNETT: Tonight, countdown to history. Six women, including Katy Perry, Gayle King and Jeff Bezos's fiancee Lauren Sanchez, are blasting off on Monday for a flight aboard Bezos's Blue Origin New Shepard Rocket. It's the first female -- all female space crew since 1963.

All of them have trained for over a year for this trip, including Aisha Bowe. She's a former NASA rocket scientist and an entrepreneur now, and she told me why this trip is so important to her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLP)

AISHA BOWE, FORMER NASA ROCKET SCIENTIST, ALL-FEMALE BLUE ORIGIN CREW MEMBER: I was in these classrooms, and when I would ask students to draw what an engineer looked like, they would always, almost always draw a man in a lab coat. They would never draw someone who looked like me. And what I realized over the course of my career is that what we look like matters. People want to see themselves in these fields.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: It's really fascinating and incredible about to go to space. You can see our full conversation online. It's posted on our X account OUTFRONT CNN. Hope you'll take a look at that and watch them blast off.

Thank you so much for joining us.

"AC360" starts now.