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Erin Burnett Outfront

Police: 2 Killed In Mass Shooting At Florida State University; Trump Sys He Is Negotiating With China: "We're Talking"; Appeals Court Rips Into Trump Admin's Handling of Deportations. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired April 17, 2025 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:27]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:

The breaking news: two people are dead and five are injured in a mass shooting on a Florida college campus. The suspect, the son of a local sheriff's deputy. A student who witnessed the shooting, is my guest.

And Donald Trump saying moments ago that China is coming to the negotiating table for a trade deal, but are serious talks actually underway?

And, an appeals court just ripping into the Trump administration over the Maryland man wrongfully deported to El Salvador? What could it mean for his return now?

Let's go OUTFRONT.

Good evening, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan, in for Erin Burnett.

And OUTFRONT tonight, breaking news -- so tragic. New details about the horrific and deadly, now deadly mass shooting at Florida State University. We now know two people were killed, five more shot and wounded.

The suspect, who police say is the son of a local sheriff's deputy, was also injured. He's in the hospital tonight as well. Hospital officials say the suspect was found with a gun that belonged to his mother, the deputy.

Now, I want to play for you some of the video that has come in over the last, really, just a few hours of the chaotic scene on that Tallahassee campus. And I will warn you, this video may be disturbing. The blurred portion in the video is the victim.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

BOLDUAN: We hear those screams and just how terrified the students are there.

In a moment, we're going to speak with a student who witnessed how this all began. McKenzie Heeter saw the gunman get out of his car and opened fire. She saw victims shot as she fled to safety. All of this is happening less than a mile and a half from the state capitol. CNN has also obtained this video. It's a chilling moment when many

students were first warned that the shooting was taking place.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: A dangerous or life-threatening situation exists on campus. Take shelter now in a secure location.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: I get chills even hearing it. I mean, students were seen running from campus after the gunman opened fire. This was around 11:50 a.m. near the Student Union.

Officials say that the suspect did not comply with commands when confronted by law enforcement. And then they shot him.

Nick Valencia is OUTFRONT for us near the scene of the shooting.

Nick, what more are you learning from investigators tonight?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the big question we have for investigators is what was the motive here of this alleged gunman? And the other big lingering question, will the mother face any charges? We've seen that happen in similar cases across the country. But what investigators here say happened here earlier today was just a heartbreaking tragedy that shattered the safety and security of so many here on campus. That alleged gunman approaching this Woodward Gate entrance of the Florida State campus at around 11:50 and opening fire, killing two people and injuring a handful of others.

According to police, the gunman, when he was engaged by a law enforcement, refused commands and was neutralized, they say, taken into custody. That gunman has invoked his Fifth Amendment rights, so he's not cooperating with police. We don't know why he allegedly did this earlier today, but some very interesting details about who he was. And I believe we want to show you very briefly a photo of this 20-year-old, a new photo that we've obtained just a short time ago.

And this 20-year-old was the son of a Leon County sheriff's deputy, who was also a school resource officer, whose job it was to keep her school safe from incidents happening like this, only for her son to allegedly carry out what he did earlier today.

And we know that at least three handguns were recovered from this alleged gunman. One of those guns was the former service weapon of his mother. The service weapon that she previously used in the line of duty, which was now her personal weapon.

Police also say a shotgun was recovered from the student union. Thats what you're looking at there behind me. And what was described here to me by witnesses was just absolute chaos.

Father Luke Farabaugh was the -- is the chaplain here at the church, just off camera. The Catholic Church, which provided shelter to hundreds and hundreds of students who were fleeing for cover. And what the father told me was that he saw a look of terror on these kids' faces that he had never seen before.

He himself saw two bodies laying on the ground. He was shaken up when I interviewed him about an hour ago. But he's getting ready right now for mass at 7:00 p.m. They had planned a mass.

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This is, of course, Holy Week. Easter is on Sunday, and they were planning a mass for today. That mass is going on as scheduled.

The father saying that he wanted to provide a safe space for fellowship for everyone that experienced this tragedy earlier -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Thank goodness for that, especially in this moment.

Nick, thank you so much.

OUTFRONT for us now is McKenzie Heeter. She's a junior at FSU. She witnessed today's shooting.

McKenzie, thank you for spending some time with us. I am so sorry to be meeting you like this. How are you doing? I mean, how are things settling in, in this moment?

MCKENZIE HEETER, STUDENT AT FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY: It's still honestly hasn't really. Settled that that it like, it was real. That those guns were real and people died. It's -- everybody's just really scared.

BOLDUAN: Yeah. I mean, and that's -- and it's okay to feel that way and it's okay to not be able to handle it right now. It's unbelievable what you had to see because you saw the shooter. You saw him open fire.

Can you walk me through what happened and what you saw?

HEETER: I was leaving the student union. And next to the union, there's a big, like, green. And there was a, like, a road that's right off the green. Like a service road for faculty vehicles or whatever, maybe.

And when I left the union with my food, I noticed that there was a really nice orange hummer parked on that road, and I was like, okay, cool. So, I crossed the green. I just I'm already aware pretty well aware of my surroundings.

And I look back and I see him waving around a larger gun, which I at first thought was a rifle, but I guess it was a shotgun. And he let off a shot kind of in our direction. As we were walking away from the union, and me and the boy that there was only like a couple of us, we just kind of looked at each other like, is this real? Like, what was that?

And that's when he turned probably because he missed at longer distance and turned to his car and grabbed the handgun out the pistol, and he turned towards the union. And that's when I saw him shoot a woman in purple scrubs in the back -- and her back. And I just started running. I ran a mile all the way to my apartment, but I kept hearing shots, firing. Like, the whole, like, pretty much like I -- the cops were there before I even made it home. I heard all the sirens, but it was a good 20 seconds as I was running, it was just shot after shot after shot.

BOLDUAN: Oh my God. I wish I could give you a hug right now. I'm so sorry that you had to see that. And, well -- I mean, you were just as much in danger as anyone else. McKenzie, I'm so sorry.

Did it appear -- did it appear he was -- the woman you saw shot, did it appear she was -- he was targeting her? Did -- did that --

HEETER: No.

BOLDUAN: Did you get that gut feeling?

HEETER: That's what I thought at first. When he had the bigger gun. And he kind of pointed it towards that boy. I've -- I was like, oh, okay, maybe it's a BB gun. Maybe it's some like, because, you know, senior high school will do those water gun fights where like, you randomly senior assassin or whatever. I was like, well, maybe it's something like that.

And he's aiming at the boy, or the boy messed with his girlfriend or, I don't know, just a whole bunch of scenarios. And so, when he turned to the woman and shot her, that's when I realized there was no target and that it was anybody he could see. And I took off.

BOLDUAN: Did -- I mean, did the -- did that woman even know that she was in danger do you think?

HEETER: She was shot in her back. She was just walking and he just turned around and shot her.

BOLDUAN: And she just went to the ground at that point.

HEETER: And I left. I ran.

BOLDUAN: In the -- in the -- in the time that you were looking at him, how was he acting? Do you remember thinking he looked calm or frantic or anxious or --

HEETER: Yeah, he was -- he was calm. Like he wasn't like anxious or anything. Like he definitely was wearing a scowl. He wasn't like somebody I would normally look twice at. Like, he looked pretty normal, like.

And then, you know, just, I don't know, he wasn't, like, acting, like, super panicky or manic or anything. He was quite calm when he turned to get the other gun, like he knew what he was doing.

BOLDUAN: Did you -- did he say anything?

HEETER: I didn't hear anything. BOLDUAN :. We now are learning that he is the son of a sheriff's

deputy, and that one of her guns was with him. How do you react to that?

HEETER: I don't know. I think it's just very sad that he would do that to a school, let alone do that to his mom, knowing that that's her job. And what she works for is to keep people, especially students, safe.

I -- I almost want to know if he just hates her so much. Thats why he did it. Like, I -- I don't -- I don't know, like, I mean, I feel like he's old enough where if, you know, he wanted to, like, use a gun and he acted like normal, I'm sure his parents would let him. I just have no idea why he would ever bring it to campus and just start shooting people.

BOLDUAN: Yeah. I mean, the search for why is, of course, what law enforcement are looking for. But, you know, it's impossible to understand why anyone would ever get to this place and do something like that. I mean, put you in danger when you're just trying to walk around your school campus.

I mean, they believe he is. He's a student at your school. Does that somehow make this even more tragic for you?

HEETER: I think it -- I think it does in a sense, but it also makes me feel better that it wasn't just a random person coming in off the street, just trying, like, I don't know, I honestly think either way it just be horrible. I don't think there is a bright side to it.

BOLDUAN: No, there's no bright side. There's no bright side at all. I mean, just -- I don't know. What's -- what do you do now other than hopefully call your mom and call your dad and, I don't know, get a hug, but I just -- I don't know, where's your -- where's your heart in your head in it right now?

HEETER: I really just want to find out about the woman in the purple scrubs. And if she's okay. And I just want, I don't know, I just I want everybody to know what happened, because I know how social media can get, and I know before I was even home, after I saw it happen, there was crazy rumors. So, I kind of just wanted to clear that up.

But really, I just can't stop thinking about the woman because I know she wasn't a student, and she was wearing scrubs. Like, I have no idea what she was doing walking across freaking -- the union green. So --

BOLDUAN: Yeah.

HEETER: I don't know.

BOLDUAN: McKenzie. Thank you. I am so sorry. Thank you so much. Take care of yourself, okay?

HEETER: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Thank you. Ooh, John Miller here with me. Former D.C. Police Chief Charles Ramsey

here with me as well.

Oh, John. Oh.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: We've been here before.

BOLDUAN: What are you learning?

MILLER: What they're trying to piece together is as much as they can about this individual. And what led to this moment? Here are some clues that are by no means definitive.

I mean, obviously, we know he's 20-year-old Phoenix Ikner. He's a poli sci major at this -- at the college. He grew up in the town. We know about his mom, or maybe stepmom, who's a deputy sheriff for 18 years and a school resource officer during much of that time.

That's his orange Hummer that, you know, we've seen in front of --

BOLDUAN: McKenzie was talking about.

MILLER: Yeah, in front of her home. And that's her -- her service weapon. Her former service weapon that that was used in the in the in the events today, along with a shotgun and a third weapon that was recovered.

But the why is still the elusive piece here.

Now, what we see is where he comes up on the radar. He's quoted in January at the university at a demonstration, he's an onlooker, not a participant of a group, the Students for a Democratic Society, protesting Donald Trump's election. And his quote was, these people are usually pretty entertaining, referring to the SDS, but not for good reasons. It's a little too late. He's already going to be inaugurated on January 20th.

So, basically, it is not a direct criticism of the demonstrator, but he's writing them off, basically saying it's a waste of time. Now, that group, the SDS later gets suspended as a group on the campus because they broke up a meeting, with pro-Palestinian shouts, and they were suspended until May 15th. Same group was going to have another rally today and a march on campus.

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But that -- and this is why these are fragments, right? That was going to be a 2:45. This happens at 11:50. So what part of being three hours early for that? Is there a connection?

And this is exactly what law enforcement is going through with the campus, which was -- was there a pre-meeting. Could these things be connected? Has this been something that's been growing in the background? It's the very reason they need to get into his computers, his phones,

his social media. He has an Instagram account, but it's private. And try to dig into where his head was going. So that's as far as motive. They don't really know.

Here's the caveat. I don't want to say they don't really care. Motive matters. They have a live suspect. He's going to go to trial.

But what they really focus on today in the aftermath of the shooting is not the motive, because we've learned time and time again, when you find out the why, it never really makes sense to us anyway.

BOLDUAN: Correct.

MILLER: What they focus on is what were the tells? What were the signs? What could have been done to prevent this? And you know, when you look at what the FBI has done in the prevent space, what they've been saying to people is go to our website, FBI.gov/prevent. Here are all the indicators.

And what they say is, and this is a quote they use -- when you know something is wrong, but you don't want to say it. Talk to somebody about it. Report it. Even if it's your friends, your brother, family. Don't hold back from doing the right thing.

And what they're saying is you don't have to go to the police. Go to a coach. Go to a teacher. Go to a guidance person. Go to somebody and say, do we need to bring attention to this? Because in most of these cases, 85 percent, those clues, what they call leakage, those tells are there. And they'll be looking for that here.

BOLDUAN: Yeah, they sure will. They've got a lot of information. But again, it's all pieces. This puzzle is not together yet, as you always say.

Chief, how are you -- I don't know. How do you process and react to everything that we have learned so far? I mean, we're again. We're here again.

But the fact that this suspected shooter is -- his mom is a sheriff's deputy, one of her guns was at the scene with him.

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, first of all, I think when John first started his comments, he said, here we are again. And here we are again. It just seems like it's never-ending, when we have tragedies like this occur.

Now, it's unusual to have it to be that a son of police officer, but it can happen to anybody. And again, it really, to a large extent also points toward, you know, securing weapons that you aren't using in your home and not just police officers. I mean, most departments have policies in place where you where they strongly recommend, if not demand, that you secure your weapon when you're off duty.

When we talk about gun laws and sensible gun laws, that's one of the first ones that I would like to see passed, because here were talking about a school shooting. But how often does one sibling accidentally shoot another sibling because they found a firearm? I mean, it just goes on and on and on.

It's just a tragedy all the way around. And certainly, my condolences to the family of those that died. But -- but one last thing, Kate. You know, when you were speaking with Ms. Heeter there, the collateral damage this caused, the trauma that's caused the people who witness this sort of thing.

People like John and I have seen a lot of violence in our lives. Thats not normal, though. Most people are not exposed to that sort of thing. And even if you are exposed to it, quite frankly, on a regular basis, I mean, it can be a problem. Mental health among police officers is an issue. Theres no question about it. But when you see someone like that at that age, that will never be the same again. Because of what she witnessed. And that's something that we've got to pay very close attention to.

BOLDUAN: That's a really important point. Hearing her say all she wants to know is how that woman is doing in the purple scrubs. I mean, that's just -- that is -- there's the trauma that this poor girl has suffered very clearly right there.

Guys, thank you for being here.

OUTFRONT for us next, we're going to have more on this breaking news. I'm going to speak to a surgeon at the hospital treating the victims of the Florida state shooting. He just operated on one patient and has an update on their condition. We're going to bring that to you.

And also ahead later this hour, President Trump slamming the Fed chairman after he sounded the alarm on Trump's tariffs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If I want him out, he'll be out of there real fast. Believe me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: How just saying that is rattling markets.

Plus, a new KFILE report -- new reporting on Trump's pick to be D.C.'s top prosecutor, and how he failed to report more than 200 appearances on far right media, including some on Russian state TV.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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BOLDUAN: And we're sticking with our breaking news. We do want to see if we do. Do we have this new image that's just come in?

Okay. We're going to we've got -- there's a lot of new video, new images coming in. And we're going to bring them to you when we can get them loaded up. In the meantime, we do know from our breaking news, at least five

victims of that mass shooting on FSU's campus are being treated right now for gunshot wounds at Tallahassee Memorial Health. The alleged shooter also shot also being treated in a hospital tonight OUTFRONT with us now is Dr. Brett Howard. He's a surgeon at Tallahassee memorial healthcare where the victims were taken. He's also a graduate of FSU.

Doctor, thank you for being here this evening. What can you tell us? With all respect and understanding of patient privacy, what can you tell us about how the victims are doing tonight?

DR. BRETT HOWARD, SURGEON, TALLAHASSEE MEMORIAL HEALTH: So I can tell you, all of our victims, although some have serious injuries, are all in fair condition.

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They are, you know, various injuries, but overall, in good spirits and doing well.

BOLDUAN: That's wonderful news in the face of nothing but horrible news today. I understand that you -- that some of them underwent surgery, which is understandable and often happens when someone's been suffered a gunshot wound, especially you operated on at least one patients, my understanding.

How severe were the wounds? How did surgery go?

HOWARD: Yeah. So, I was involved with a few of the operations. They were all very successful. We were able to proceed to the operating room very systematic fashion. No, no, no real concerns, honestly, throughout the procedure. So we're very thankful that they went off without any issues.

BOLDUAN: Would you say the wounds are severe? Like, are we talking internal organ damage? Are we talking extremities?

HOWARD: So without anything really specific, there were some internal injuries, but able to be managed easily and very stable.

BOLDUAN: We do know that the gunman, as I mentioned, that he was shot by law enforcement when they were taking him into custody. He was also taken to a hospital. Is he at your hospital the same hospital as the victims you're treating?

HOWARD: Yeah. So, I can't talk anything about specific identity of any of our patients at this time.

BOLDUAN: Just for everyone out there, as you said, all are in fair condition. Does that, does that, does that go with the understanding that you expect all to survive?

HOWARD: Yeah. At this point, we do. There is no -- although, like I said, serious injuries. Everybody is stable and expected to make a full recovery. BOLDUAN: That's just great, thankfully.

I mentioned that you're a graduate of FSU. I can only imagine that's an additional layer of what you're having to deal with and what you have to see in your oar every day. What? This hits very close to home for you.

HOWARD: Yeah, absolutely. You know, we certainly deal with a lot of, you know, significant traumas, a mass event like this that's, you know, right out outside at our own university really hits close to home, especially as a graduate.

You know, I -- my heart's out. And my condolences to everybody. You know, it certainly is something that we don't want to see on our, our campuses. And, yeah, it is -- it is -- it is heartbreaking.

BOLDUAN: Yeah. Thank God for people like you and what you do every day.

Dr. Howard, thank you for your time.

HOWARD: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

OUTFRONT for us next. Donald Trump just appearing to make a major announcement saying that the U.S. and China are in talks on trade. Is a deal on the horizon? We're going to bring you an update on that.

Plus, soldiers in El Salvador blocking a U.S. senator from entering that notorious mega prison and seeing the wrongfully deported Maryland man who's inside. Our David Culver joins us with some new reporting on this case.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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BOLDUAN: More breaking news, President Trump seeming to make a big announcement that the U.S. and China are currently negotiating a trade deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: They've reached out since the 145 percent tariffs?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Oh, yeah. Sure.

REPORTER: Do you believe that? Do you believe --

TRUMP: A lot, all the time, we're talking. I think that we will make a deal with China. I think we've had some very good talks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Donald Trump even predicted that the deal could be done in the next 3 to 4 weeks.

Jeff Zeleny OUTFRONT at the White House for us.

So, Jeff, what are you actually hearing about the talks that Trump just announced there?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, we have heard the president say he's talking with China for weeks, but there's been zero evidence that there actually have been talks underway, certainly at any high level. But again, the president made those comments late this afternoon in the Oval Office. We've asked officials again, what evidence do you have that there are talks underway? We have not seen any evidence of that.

But, Kate, the reality here is this underscores what the presidents been trying to do, trying to put pressure on Beijing, put pressure on President Xi Jinping to come to the negotiating table.

But so far, the U.S. president is really the only one of this who's to blink and offer exemptions and concessions. So, this is clearly part of a negotiating strategy, but it's unclear if it's working at all. Of course, the Italian prime minister was visiting the White House today, trying to get the -- the president to back off some of the tariffs on the E.U.

But once again, this is all part of the sweeping tariff policy that is still causing so much uncertainty in the markets. But it clearly has also gotten under the skin of the president. He lashed out again today at the chairman of the Federal Reserve, Jerome Powell, who yesterday gave a speech, and he said, look, these tariffs are going to raise inflation and slow the growth of the economy. That's his assessment. But that irritated the president.

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So, he now once again raised the idea, the prospect of a firing the Federal Reserve chair. Of course, it's an independent agency. So, it's not how it works. But the president said this, if I want him out, he'll be out real fast.

Kate, we shall see about that. The Supreme Court would likely weigh in, but it seems like someone is looking for a scapegoat for the economy -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: That's an interesting point. Definitely woke up looking for a fight this morning, if nothing else.

Jeff, it's great to see you. Thank you so much.

OUTFRONT with me now, Dan Ives, veteran tech stocks analyst, and Peter Tuchman, long time Wall Street trader.

Okay, so let's get -- let's -- let's table the Jerome Powell for a second because I want to talk first about what jeff was saying about the reality of them actually -- Trump actually talking to China. No indication of actual talks. How would you say the market or anyone should digest this? He says

they're talking, but they're really not. Maybe.

DAN IVES, GLOBAL HEAD OF TECHNOLOGY RESEARCH, WEDBUSH SECURITIES: Yeah, I mean, look -- I mean, in my view, market needs an indication negotiations that has started and right now market skeptical. And you're seeing the reaction because the reality is big tech companies, the hearts and lungs have essentially been ripped out of them in terms of the supply chain. This is an economic downturn that's going downstream.

And you can't stop it once it goes past that. And I believe you need a deal or two by the weekend, whether it's Japan, South Korea, someone in terms of getting a deal on the table. But China -- as Tuchman and I've talked about, I mean, that is the key because the reality is, is that time is ticking and Wall Street patience is wearing thin. And it can't just be words. You need to actually start to see some layout of a deal.

BOLDUAN: But Trump said -- the president said today, Peter, he's in no rush. What was it? We're in no rush. We're in no rush.

Based on what you're seeing, should he be in a rush?

PETER TUCHMAN, TRADER AT THE NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE: I would think so. I mean, you know, look, we've seen -- think about it. February 19th, markets were trading at record highs. We are down besides those couple of days when he paused the tariffs, the market has been in a downward trajectory. There are stocks that are 30, 40 percent off their 52-week highs.

There are -- the market is down 15, 20, 25 percent. You know, since inauguration -- I mean, since February 19th, at least, let's say, I would say a rush is -- is the smart idea. We want a deal. I think today was a perfect example where the market did not know what to do.

Yesterday's reaction was completely because of Jay Powell, right? And, you know, and now that he's picking a fight with Jay Powell, that seems odd. We know that he doesn't have control over whether he keeps his job or not. So that's off the table.

But it was a complete counternarrative from Jay Powell the last time he spoke, which was when he said that the market seems to be overreacting to -- to the tariff problem, and that if there is a problem or if it is going to have major implications in the market, he felt that they were already baked in in the selloff we've seen from Feb 19th.

Yesterday, he made it clear that and it was quite a statement to say that he feels that it's -- these are the tariffs are a major -- have major implications in the market. In fact, it's going to affect growth. And growth affects guidance and earnings, and then all that affects employment.

And so, you know, that sets that stage for a recession which I hate to say that word is, but we know that that word has been floated around for a while when it made no sense. But when you start to see affecting growth and, and then, you know, we know what a recession.

BOLDUAN: Start to make a little more sense.

IVES: I'd also to his point, tariff -- this is the issue right here. Hey, look at the Fed.

BOLDUAN: That's what I was going to ask you. You really -- you think it's -- you think it's a distraction?

IVES: You just have what is in the last hundred years, the biggest inflationary policy in the last hundred years. And then you're telling Powell, okay, now cut. When you have inflation, this is a tidal wave of inflation coming based on the tariffs. So you're like look over here.

And that's why the reality is. Streets focused on like what's Powell going to do. Back against the wall. You're focused on Nvidia, big tech.

As Tuchman talked about, no one -- no one's going to give earnings from a tech perspective. And the uncertainty creates a self-fulfilling prophecy. On enterprises, capex, and that is fundamentally the issue. The worst thing you ever want to hear is the term stagflation.

BOLDUAN: What -- what do you think of what jeff was proposing there? That it looks like the presidents looking for a scapegoat, a scapegoat. Do you think -- do you think -- I mean, but also, if he's looking for one, what does that even mean? Well, that means --

TUCHMAN: He will -- he will look that if things continue to go down and the deal is not made, he's going to blame the downturn of the market on Jay Powell and say that it was because he didn't cut the rates. Think about what Jay Powell has done over the last couple of years pre-Trump administration.

He took inflation down from eight and change, right, in this wild environment of what we've gone through post-COVID down to virtually two. I mean, he's really -- he's -- he is -- he is -- he's lived up to every one of his promises up until recently. And he -- and up until now, he's not done anything.

[19:40:02]

But really, I mean, he's done an incredible job, in my opinion, going back to -- going back to how he handled COVID, right? We learned our lesson from '09, right? They put $800 billion into the market stimulus to get through the financial crisis over an 18-month period of time. It took six years to get back to even. COVID, they put. $3 trillion into the market.

BOLDUAN: OK, what's my big takeaway today? My big takeaway is he needs to stop talking -- he needs to stop talking, and we actually need to see deals.

IVES: But back to the takeaway and Peter and I have talked about, you need deals on the table. You need to actually see the deal. BOLDUAN: Doesn't matter what you're saying.

IVES: And the reality is --

TUCHMAN: He's going to swoop in on Saturday or Sunday. This is my hope -- I'm manifesting again.

BOLDUAN: Oh, here we go.

TUCHMAN: And we got a white -- we got a white guy. We got a white knight.

BOLDUAN: Hold hands.

IVES: Hold on.

BOLDUAN: Okay, manifesting.

IVES: Okay.

TUCHMAN: And he's going to come up with a deal. That's how -- I think about it -- let's just think about how he loves to do things. He likes to be the center of attention. No disrespect, Mr. Trump.

And you know and he's going to come -- he's doing it. It's being done behind closed doors. I believe there's talking going on. But he'll come in and go, we've got a deal. And the markets going.

IVES: I'd also say Jensen's not flying to China overnight from Nvidia just for his health. The point is that it speaks to the nervousness. What we've seen in Nvidia and big tech. You need a deal.

BOLDUAN: Manifesting in real time.

Thanks, boys.

OUTFRONT for us next -- giddy up -- that's exactly what the message is today.

Breaking news, more breaking news, an appeals court just slamming the Trump administration for defying a federal judge's orders to return a wrongfully deported man sent to El Salvador.

Plus, our KFILE learning Trump's pick to be Washington's top prosecutor failed to disclose hundreds of appearances on far right media outlets and Russian state TV, appearances that were required in disclosures. Appearances like this.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

ED MARTIN, TRUMP'S PICK FOR U.S. ATTORNEY FOR WASHINGTON, DC: We needed to be allies with nuclear powers like Russia.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [19:46:03]

BOLDUAN: The breaking news, an appeals court just slammed the Trump administration for its refusal to do anything to help bring back to the U.S. the Maryland man mistakenly deported to El Salvador, writing this in its order, the appeals court: The government is asserting a right to stash away residents of this country in foreign prisons without the semblance of due process that is the foundation of our constitutional order. The appeals court siding with the district judge in ordering the Trump administration to step up and do more to actually facilitate Kilmar Abrego Garcia release from the prison in El Salvador and returned to the U.S.

The judge, also writing the Trump administration's position is, quote, shocking not only to judges but to the intuitive sense of liberty that Americans far removed from courthouses still hold dear.

OUTFRONT now, Ryan Goodman.

I mean, there -- there were a lot of quotes in this one to read. I mean, what -- what did you think and how strongly and how hard this appeals court came down on the Trump administration on this.

RYAN GOODMAN, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL AT DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE: And how fast they actually did it within 24 hours. And they did it even before the plaintiffs filed their briefs in response to the government's brief. It's -- it's just damning.

They're basically saying you shouldn't be in our court room, that this is really improper to be going after the judge for this order now, after the Supreme Court has backed her up.

And in fact, it's actually Judge Wilkinson who writes the opinion for a unanimous bench. He is a Reagan appointee. He previously said when he upheld her on the first time, that this is a path to lawlessness.

When he said that, the Supreme Court hadn't even ruled. Since then, the Supreme Court ruled in her favor to say this is correct, she is right to order you to facilitate Mr. Abrego Garcia's release.

BOLDUAN: So, this now ends back up at the Supreme Court. How do you see the justices approaching this one now?

GOODMAN: I think they will protect themselves and protect the court. So, I think they'll respond also, probably very quickly and dismissively.

BOLDUAN: You think so?

GOODMAN: Yeah. The prior opinion was without any dissent, which is unusual, especially with this court today. And another part of it is that these pieces of the puzzle are kind of fitting together. Even the opinion today by the fourth circuit. They are speaking about Abrego Garcia's case, but they're also speaking about chief judge --

BOLDUAN: You could -- you really could apply it across, right? GOODMAN: Yeah. Theres even a sentence in there. It's like I read the

sentence. I was thinking, that's actually not Xenis' case and it's not Abrego Garcia. That sounds more like Judge Boasberg's case, because the judge says, Judge Wilkinson says what the government is doing here is taking away people's ability to have their right to habeas, just to get their day in court, to argue that they are not being fairly accused of being a member of the terrorist organization one way or the other.

That's actually the Boasberg case. So, I think they're signaling that. And he also refers to the idea that people have. He doesn't identify the White House in particular, called out for impeachment of certain judges. Well, that's Judge Boasberg again. So, I think they're speaking right. They're trying to speak for the moment that our country is in, even at the very end, almost pleading with the executive branch to please walk back from the edge because we're at an incipient crisis.

BOLDUAN: It was really -- it's really something to read.

It's great to see you.

GOODMAN: Great to see you.

BOLDUAN : Thank you.

Also tonight, Senator Chris Van Hollen is blocked a second time from entering the maximum security prison in El Salvador, where Abrego Garcia is being held. Van Hollen posted, were going to show you this video saying that soldiers were stationed outside the prison and stopped him, even as they let other cars travel through.

I want to go now to David Culver, who twice has been inside that notorious prison, and tonight is talking to his sources in El Salvador.

David, Senator Van Hollen saying he was blocked from getting in. How is El Salvador's government responding to that?

DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, first, Kate, I'll tell you, I'm not surprised that he was blocked. I mean, having gone there twice, as you mentioned, you go through several checkpoints just to get to the front entrance of CECOT.

[19:50:01]

And they make you at times get out of your vehicle. They search it thoroughly. So, it's not surprising that he didn't have access and hence wasn't allowed past the first checkpoint, let alone to get to the door of the prison.

As far as how El Salvador is reacting right now, I've been in touch with a close friend of President Bukele, and this source is telling me that the president is unfazed. In fact, he's not even in El Salvador right now and has no plans to return. The source went on to say that the government is not going to cave to any public pressure or surprise visits, and that includes not only Senator Van Hollen's visit as they see it, but potentially future ones from other Democratic lawmakers, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yeah, because we've been -- there are plans in the works for more to be to be heading there.

You're learning also new information tonight about communication between El Salvador and the U.S. government about Abrego Garcia. What are you picking up, David?

CULVER: Well, because I think one of the questions here is, are there going to be any charges on the El Salvador side of things? And that's something that I've been trying to get some answers to.

And according to the source, there is a lot of coordination between the U.S. and El Salvador on not only Abrego Garcia's case, but I'm told multiple deportees cases, they're actively sharing information. And so, it appears as though they're in a situation of building a case, even if they don't go forward with charges, they're seeming to, in this moment, at least trying to get as much evidence together. And they're coordinating actively with the Department of Justice and Salvadoran law enforcement are working to try to see if they can potentially have enough to go forward with charges.

The thing is, Kate, they're in the midst of a state of exception right now. State of emergency, essentially in El Salvador. This has been going on for more than three years, and it's renewed every 30 days or so. And that suspends certain constitutional rights.

So, there's no deadline for them to have to go forward with charges. He can stay behind bars and locked up for, as of now, an indefinite period of time before they actually move forward with any charges.

BOLDUAN: Great reporting as always. Important information coming out that you're getting this evening.

David, thank you very much.

OUTFRONT for us next, Trump's pick for top prosecutor in D.C. cozying up to Russia in undisclosed media appearances, some on Russia's own airwaves.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:56:27]

BOLDUAN: Tonight, Trump's top D.C. prosecutor on Russian state TV. CNN's KFILE revealing that Ed Martin failed to report hundreds of media appearances to Congress, required disclosures.

Paula Reid is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARTIN: The system is breaking, and its breaking in Washington, D.C.'s district court. PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Ed Martin is

President Trump's pick to serve as U.S. attorney for Washington, D.C.

CNN has uncovered hundreds of media appearances from the past few years that he failed to report on his initial mandated disclosure form to Congress, including many hits on far right outlets.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our friend Ed Martin, thank you so much.

REID: And Russian state media.

MARTIN: We needed to be allies with nuclear powers like Russia.

REID: Martin, a longtime conservative activist who represented several January 6th defendants, has generated considerable controversy since taking office, referring to federal prosecutors as President Trump's lawyers ordering the firing, demotion or reassignment of attorneys working on January 6th cases, launching his own probes of the January 6th investigations and the legality of former President Joe Biden's last-minute pardons. Also displaying loyalty to Trump and pledging to investigate anyone who threatened his advisor, Elon Musk.

Martin was required to submit paperwork to the Senate after his nomination, including a detailed account of past media appearances.

MARTIN: We're proud and we're happy that we finally have a president who is on the side of fighting back.

REID: CNN's KFILE found his initial 27-page disclosure form does not come close to capturing the extent of his appearances, lacking any reference to at least 240 podcast, radio and TV interviews he did in the past two years. He is subsequently updated his disclosure twice this month, including filing a 12-page supplement form on April 15th that added dozens of appearances. But overall, he's failed to capture many of his hits.

MARTIN: It should be charged under RICO. It's a conspiracy, but the -- the Republicans, in order to prove that they have to go back and break down January 6th.

REID: CNN tallied nearly 200 appearances Martin still failed to disclose, including ones in which he suggested as U.S. attorney he would prosecute relatives of Biden and charge people who had investigated Trump.

MARTIN: If I was the U.S. attorney in Washington, D.C., on January 21st, I would impanel a grand jury and I would call Hunter Biden before the grand jury. He has to go without a lawyer, and he has to answer questions because now, he has immunity from prosecution.

REID: Martin's initial disclosure in march noted that there may be other materials I have been unable to identify, find or remember and apologize for errors in subsequent updates. Nominees commonly omit some media appearances and amend their forms, but Martin hasn't given congress a full accounting despite multiple attempts to correct the record. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: And Paula Reid joins me now live.

I mean, the numbers are pretty staggering there, Paula. What does this failure to disclose, though, mean for Martin's Senate nomination?

REID: It's great that you asked about that nomination because the clock is ticking. Under federal law, his status as an acting U.S. attorney expires on May 20th. And despite calls for a hearing on his nomination where they could hash out these kinds of issues, the committee chairman, Senator Chuck Grassley, says he doesn't intend to hold one because that is not something the committee has done for a U.S. attorney in 40 years.

Now, we did reach out to Martin on this great new reporting from Em Steck, Annie Grayer and Andrew Kaczynski. His office referred CNN to the White House, which did not respond -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Paula, thank you so much. It is great to see you. I really appreciate your time.

We'll continue to follow all the breaking news. That is the tragedy that has been playing out before us in Florida. Continue that breaking news coverage. Thanks for joining us.

"AC360" starts now.