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Erin Burnett Outfront

Rubio: U.S. Will End Ukraine Talks In "Days" If No Progress; Democratic Senator Speaks Out After Visiting Wrongly Deported Man; Two Victims Identified In Mass Shooting At Florida State University. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired April 18, 2025 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:23]

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:

The Trump administration threatening to walk away from its efforts to end the war in Ukraine, saying that decision could come in a matter of days. So, what would that mean for the war?

And just back from meeting with the man wrongfully deported to El Salvador, Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen revealing how that last minute meeting came together. A lawyer for his family is my guest.

Plus, the breaking news. CNN learning new details tonight about the victims of the deadly Florida State shooting. I'll speak with the university's president, who also just spoke at a vigil on campus.

Let's go OUTFRONT.

Good evening. I'm Erica Hill, in for Erin Burnett.

OUTFRONT tonight, is Donald Trump done with the Russia-Ukraine war? Thats what secretary of state Marco Rubio seemed to suggest, saying that if a ceasefire is not reached soon, the U.S. will drop its peace efforts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I'm talking about a matter of days, not a matter of weeks. If it's not possible, if we're so far apart that this is not going to happen, then I think the president is probably at a point where he's going to say, well, we're done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: The president's response to Rubio's comments? Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If for some reason one of the two parties makes it very difficult, we're just going to say you're foolish, you're fools, you're horrible people, and we're going to just take a pass. But hopefully, we won't have to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: So is one party, in fact making it so difficult? Remember, back in March, Ukraine said it would agree to a peace deal, and then Rubio said this about the Russian response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUBIO: If their response is yes, then we know we've made real progress and there's a real chance of peace. If their response is no, it would be highly unfortunate and it would make their intentions clear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Russia did not exactly say yes, as we know, and that was over a month ago. There have been meetings since. Of course, Steve Witkoff just met recently, again with Vladimir Putin.

So, what is Washington's message? Well, here's a take from Russian state TV.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSSIAN TV MALE ANCHOR (through translator): Washington issued an ultimatum to Kyiv.

Rubio didn't make any threats towards Moscow.

Here is a message to Zelenskyy. Moscow's position is clear to the Americans.

RUSSIAN TV FEMALE ANCHOR (through translator): The U.S. president is fed up with Zelenskyy's stubbornness. At the same time, Trump is not giving any ultimatums or deadlines to Putin.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: And they may have good reason to believe that. Not only has President Trump showered praise on Vladimir Putin over the years, but Trump's top negotiator, the man at the center of any peace deal, has been praising Putin, too. As I noted, he met with Putin recently, three times recently offering insights like these.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE WITKOFF, U.S. SPECIAL ENVOY TO THE MIDDLE EAST: What Putin's request is to get to have a permanent peace here.

I don't regard Putin as a bad guy. That is a complicated situation, that war and all the ingredients that led up to it.

You know, it's never just one person, right? President Putin had commissioned a beautiful portrait of President Trump from the leading Russian artist and actually gave it to me and asked me to take it home to President Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HILL: Certainly sounds a whole lot like what Putin might say himself.

Kylie Atwood is OUTFRONT in Washington.

So, Kylie, I know you have some new, crucial information about plans from the Trump administration. Where do things stand tonight?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. So, what we know is that the secretary of state, Steve Witkoff, and Keith Kellogg, they all met with the Ukrainians and the Europeans in Paris yesterday. They presented this framework to try and drive forth an end to the Russia-Ukraine war. And we should note that we're now learning some more details of what was actually in that framework.

I'm told, according to an official familiar with the framework that was put on the table, that the Trump administration, the U.S., is ready to recognize Russian control of Crimea. Of course, that is an area inside of Ukraine that Russia illegally annexed about ten years ago, more than ten years ago. The U.S. would be prepared to actually recognize Russia's control of that area as part of this initial framework.

Another piece of this framework that we are learning about is that it would effectively freeze the front lines of this conflict. Now, according to the source that I spoke to about this, the framework isn't fully baked yet. There's a meeting that's going to happen next week in London, and that's where U.S. officials will be talking with the Ukrainians again about the contours of this framework. I'm also told that there are plans for Steve Witkoff, Trump's Middle East envoy who has met with President Putin now three times to have another meeting with the Russians in the coming days or coming week here.

[19:05:09]

So those are the conversations that we will keep an eye on. So as the secretary of state is saying effectively that the United States is ready to walk away, if these two sides do not engage in this framework that the United States has put on the table behind closed doors privately, there are already plans for those engagements to take place.

So he's putting pressure on them with the knowledge that things are already turning in the direction that the Trump administration wants to see things go, whether or not they can actually get to a final framework and actually drive an end to this conflict, which, of course, the Trump administration has been trying to do since it came into office, remains an open question.

HILL: Yeah, absolutely. Important reporting tonight. Kylie, appreciate it. Thank you.

Matthew Chance is OUTFRONT in Moscow.

So, Matthew, you just heard Russian state media saying that Putin isn't feeling any pressure from Trump. Does the kremlin believe that they will face any real consequences from the United States should these talks fall apart?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: They don't seem to be, Erica, but you know, it doesn't mean that they won't face consequences. I mean, in fact, you get the impression listening to Russian television read the newspapers, that they're quite happy about the idea of the Trump administration, of the United States walking away from the conflict and from peacemaking in Ukraine, because they think it will give them a freer hand in their prosecution of the war.

But, of course, you know, we know and the Kremlin knows that the Trump administration is very unpredictable. You know, if you know, President Trump does walk away from peacemaking, it could involve the imposition of sanctions on Russia. It could involve the U.S. redoubling its -- or resuming its military assistance for Ukraine.

And even if he walks away and just washes his hands of the whole thing and leaves the fate of Ukraine to the Ukrainians and to its European backers, that will, will, will have consequences for the Russians as well. Not least that they may have missed a key opportunity, an off ramp to resolve this conflict and to bring the fighting to an end on extremely favorable terms.

And so, these are the things that will be weighed up in the kremlin as it decides what its next move will be.

HILL: Yeah. A fateful few days ahead of us here.

Matthew, appreciate it. Thank you.

Also joining me OUTFRONT tonight, Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna of Florida, who is a member of the Armed Services Committee.

Sir, good to have you with us tonight. I do want to begin on this new reporting from my colleague, Kylie Atwood, that the White House is ready to recognize Russian control of Crimea as part of this ceasefire framework. Would you -- are you okay with that?

REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): I'm not okay with the administration's appeasement. What President Trump is realizing its far harder to govern than it is to campaign.

I mean, having his un envoy say that Putin's not a bad guy when Putin has invaded a sovereign country and bombed civilians is just flabbergasting. And the reality is that there is no moral clarity from this administration. Of course, everyone wants peace, and of course, everyone wants an end to the war.

But we want to just end to the war. And that can't mean ceding one fifth of Ukraine to Russia, which is what Russia wants. They don't just want Crimea, they want territory of eastern Ukraine. And this administration has not indicated that they value the territorial sovereignty of Ukraine.

HILL: When we look at where things stand, maybe it's a negotiating tactic, maybe it's not. But these comments from Secretary Rubio suggesting the U.S. could actually move on in a matter of days. What is your sense of the impact that would have if, in fact, the U.S.

pulled out of these talks?

KHANNA: Well, first of all, it's a betrayal of President Trump's promise. He first said he would end the war in one day, in 24 hours. Then when he realized that governing is actually harder than just pontificating on the campaign trail, he said, no, no, no, we'll end it by the end of April or early May. And now they're just throwing their hands up.

And I guess the question is, if they end with the peace negotiations, then are they going to still support Ukraine?

There are many members of Congress, bipartisan, who believe that the United States has a moral obligation to still support Ukraine. I voted for the aid, 300 members that voted for the aid. Or are they going to back away from that? And are they still going to have any diplomatic effort?

President Biden, Tony Blinken, they had back-channel diplomacy while we were supporting Ukraine to end the war. I don't understand how they just throw up their hands, this administration and what they expect.

HILL: What we're hearing more from -- so, we heard those comments, Secretary Rubio, but the president was pressed on this today in the oval office, asked specifically about a deal. He was maybe, I would say, a little bit more optimistic. But I was also struck by this warning that he offered, I want to play that moment for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If for some reason, one of the two parties makes it very difficult, we're just going to say, you're foolish, you're fools, you're horrible people, and we're going to just take a pass again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Again, we do have this new reporting from Kylie. When you hear that, who do you think that message is directed at?

[19:10:04]

KHANNA: Okay, my sense is its directed, unfortunately, at President Zelenskyy. I mean, here is the problem, President Trump is speaking of this as there's moral equivalency, as if both parties are at fault. You have here a war where Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine was a sovereign country. Putin goes in and invades them.

And now Putin is saying, I don't want to give back the territory that I have conquered. This is not a situation where both parties are to blame. This is a party where Putin is the aggressor, and any American president should have the moral clarity to say that.

HILL: You know, Steve Witkoff has said that Putin told him, right, what he needs to end the war. We're learning more again from Kylie's new reporting.

Do you think the demands from Russia and Ukraine's demands hold the same weight for this administration?

KHANNA: Unfortunately, I do. I think they just want an end to the war at any cost. If Ukraine has to cede a fifth of their territory, fine. If Ukraine doesn't get any security guarantee, fine. But America has been the leader of the free world for a reason. It's because people, other countries trust that we will uphold the rule of law, that we will not allow for dictators to just march in and invade other countries.

And if we appease Putin, then what message are we sending to Xi Jinping in terms of possibly invading Taiwan or taking more territory in the pacific? A lot is at stake.

Fortunately, there are actually Republicans in -- on the House Armed Services Committee, on the foreign affairs committee who understand the stakes, who have been pushing back against Trump. And I hope that bipartisan minds prevail on the administration not to abandon Ukraine.

HILL: We'll watch how this all plays out. Important to note European leaders in those meetings in Paris, more talks are set to happen in London next week. We'll be watching all of it.

Congressman Ro Khanna, thank you for your time tonight.

KHANNA: Thank you, Erica.

HILL: OUTFRONT next, traumatized. That is how a senator describes the Maryland man wrongly deported to El Salvador after meeting with that man, a lawyer for the man's family who traveled with the senator is my guest.

And we're also learning more about the suspected Florida State University gunman and his troubled past. This as we learn more about the victims.

I'll speak with the university's president.

Plus, China's massive bargaining chip in the trade war.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:16:57]

HILL: Breaking news: Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen now back in the U.S. after his trip to El Salvador. And he's speaking out about that meeting with Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the Maryland father the Trump administration admits it wrongly deported, but now claims it cannot bring back, despite the Supreme Court saying it must facilitate that return.

The senator sending these warnings to both the White House and also to El Salvador.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): This case is not just about one man. It's about protecting the constitutional rights of everybody who resides in the United States of America.

El Salvador is making a big mistake. President of El Salvador is making a big mistake in being complicit in this illegal scheme.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Well, that meeting occurring only after Senator Van Hollen says soldiers stopped him from entering the prison to meet with Abrego Garcia.

The man you see standing with him there with the senator is now OUTFRONT. Chris Newman, he's the attorney for Kilmar Abrego Garcia's wife, Jennifer, and her mother as well.

Chris, it's good to have you with us tonight.

When we look at where things stand, Senator Van Hollen said he was actually getting ready to leave the country when he got this last- minute call that Abrego Garcia could, in fact, be brought to his hotel. Do you have any more information on what may have led to that change? Why the senator was finally allowed to meet with your client's husband?

CHRIS NEWMAN, ATTORNEY FOR ABREGO GARCIA'S WIFE: I have no doubt that the senator's courageous visit to the CECOT prison is what precipitated his ability to visit with Kilmar later in the day. And I think, you know, all credit is due to Senator Van Hollen for having taken the initiative to go and to ensure the safety of his constituent.

HILL: Right after that meeting, pictures were, of course, posted. Pictures were posted by President Bukele who seemed to be mocking that moment. The senator addressed allegations that he had tried to dress up the shot in some ways by putting drinks in front of them.

Do you have any concerns that Senator Van Hollen became a pawn in this? In that meeting, which was on Bukele's terms?

NEWMAN: To the contrary, Senator Van Hollen and I shared an interest in in basically accomplishing three goals. First, we wanted to have proof that Kilmar was still, in fact, alive. And gratefully, we have that proof as of yesterday.

Secondly, we were trying to make sure that he was okay, that he was safe, that he was under good conditions. And then finally, were trying to ensure that he has access to his counsel and his family, as is required by human rights norms and international law.

And we were able to accomplish the first two goals. And now we need to get to the next goal of making sure that he has access to his wife and his mother. And then finally, we want him to be released and returned to his family. HILL: You also said you wanted him to have access to counsel. Are you

saying that you were -- were not able to achieve that goal?

NEWMAN: We achieved the first two goals, for sure, and now we're trying to get to the -- to the third one. And the reality is, as of this moment, we don't even know where he is. We know where he was yesterday when he met with Senator Van Hollen. And obviously we've seen the doctored photos that President Bukele has published that are consistent with the kind of torrent of deceptions and falsehoods about the entire case.

But we need to maintain sort of knowledge that he is alive, that he's okay, and then he needs to have access to his counsel as required by international law.

HILL: As I'm sure you've heard the comments from President Trump, and perhaps you've even seen the posts. He has been talking a lot about your client's husband, the president, just posting this photo, which he says is of Kilmar Abrego Garcia's hand and writing quote, this is the hand of the man that the Democrats feel should be brought back to the United States because he's such a fine and innocent person. They said he's not a member of MS-13, even though he's got MS-13 tattooed onto his knuckles. And two highly respected courts found he was a member of MS-13.

The president goes on to say he beat up his wife, et cetera. I was elected to take bad people out of the United States.

What do you make of that post from the president?

NEWMAN: Well, it's consistent with all the falsehoods and deceptions and frankly, what amounts to a campaign of defamation from the most powerful office in the world. But the reality is, is that Kilmar is a union member. He's not a gang member. The reality is that he is a peaceful father and a valuable member of his community. He's a member of community organizations like CASA.

And so, yes, the problem here is that in addition to not being given access to due process that he deserves, he's being deprived of a fair hearing, even in the court of public opinion, because the president of the United States and the president of El Salvador continue to spread falsehoods in what amount to truly unprecedented defamation.

And so, it's imperative that networks like yours and viewers really get to the facts of the case, many of which are not being reported. For example, the officer who initially falsely identified Kilmar as a gang member when he was looking for work at a Home Depot, that same officer a month later, was taken out of duty and subsequently pled guilty for mishandling, confidential informant information with the prostitute that he hired.

These are the kinds of surfaces of actual facts that are getting drown out in the torrent of deceptions that were seeing from the White House, and their mouthpieces.

HILL: Chris Newman, thank you for your time tonight. We appreciate it. NEWMAN: I'm really grateful for the opportunity, Erica. Thank you.

HILL: OUTFRONT now, David Axelrod and former Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty.

Gentlemen, good to see both of you tonight.

David, when we look at where we are tonight, Senator Van Hollen talked earlier today about how President Bukele and his view, their aides really tried to stage this meeting. We saw how Bukele spun it afterwards.

In this moment, do you worry that Senator Van Hollen got played? Would you have advised that he make that trip?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Look, he was going down to provide oversight in a matter that involved a constituent or not a constituent, but a resident of his state on a matter that he said and properly is bigger than just that one person, but goes to the nature of the rule of law in our country. I don't fault him for going down there. I don't think he was particularly used. Perhaps that was the attempt of it.

But here's the truth, Erica, I think that as a matter of pure kind of primal politics, Donald Trump plays it better than anybody else. He -- they got caught sending a guy there improperly. They acknowledged that in court, but they're now -- so, they decided to try this case in the court of public opinion, as the attorney suggested. And they said, you know, if they can't prove that this guys a violent gang member in court, then they'll do it on X and they'll do it on -- from the White House podium and from the president's desk. And that's the game that they're playing. And there isn't a whole lot of sympathy for gang members.

And so, they feel like if they can portray him as that, they're going to win this fight. And it's better for the president to be talking about this and immigration and getting violent gang members out of the country than it is about inflation or tariffs or, you know, what's going on in Ukraine or some of the other things that are much more problematical for them.

HILL: You know, governor, to that point Donald Trump is very effective, right, at getting out whatever message he wants. He was asked today specifically, though, about his administration's actions when it comes to the legal issues here and ignoring the Supreme Court's order to facilitate Abrego Garcia return.

[19:25:04]

Here's what he had to say earlier this afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're getting them out. And that's why I was elected. A judge wasn't elected to do that. I was elected to do that. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: He's right. He was elected for immigration, calling on the judge there as he brings that up, are you okay with how this White House is, in fact, defying court orders so proudly and so publicly?

TIM PAWLENTY (R), FORMER MINNESOTA GOVERNOR: I wouldn't go so far as to say they're defying a court order, the court wrote, either intentionally or maybe negligently, a vague order. They said facilitate. And as a lawyer, former lawyer you can characterize facilitate a lot of different ways, including we discussed it with the president and of El Salvador, and he doesn't feel like sending him back.

And so, I think there's the obvious points that are being made about this case, but here's three that are a little less obvious. One is this is a gentle shoving match between the Trump administration and the courts, and it's not yet rising to the level of a constitutional crisis. But I think this is the president exerting pressure and influence in that regard.

Two, it's a big message to the world that if you're an illegal immigrant and you're thinking about coming here, don't or at least come legally. So, they're using that to further a very popular message in the eyes of at least the Trump supporters.

And then lastly, they're also being pretty successful, saying maybe this person is not as innocent as is -- was previously presented, and they're putting out this information, including this tattoo on his knuckles with MS-13 and other information so that the public sympathy is now not all with him. They're starting -- a lot of the public is starting to think maybe he isn't such a good guy after all. In fact, he's a bad guy.

HILL: David, to that point, looking at what we're seeing, you know, I spoke with Congressman Robert Garcia earlier today of California who said to me he sees this trip as achieving actually some of the goals that Democrats want to achieve, which is getting public opinion, public support on their side by drilling down on the legal issue. Does this trip actually do that, or are we back at the place where Democrats are yet again, trying to figure out not only what their common message is, but how they connect with the American people on it? Because if it's about the courts, while this may be a larger issue than one man, Donald Trump, to both of your points, actually may be winning the messaging war.

AXELROD: Yeah. Look, Democrats start off in a bad position. They were put in a bad position in the last four years because the Biden administration was slow in dealing with what was an obvious problem at the border.

You know, a lot of, I think Trump for not just for four years, but for nine, has been stirring up kind of, you know, a hysteria, about immigrants suggesting that all these immigrants who are coming over are criminals and have , you know, were sent here to commit crimes and so on. There's really no evidence of that. But he has branded that, he has sold it. And I think he's sold it pretty effectively.

So, Democrats start in a bad position on this. This is not the issue that Democrats want to be fighting on. They have to because there are principles at stake here. They feel they have to fight for.

But I think that they -- if they're smart, they'd much rather be talking about the fact that the president said he'd bring down the cost of things, and he's actually driving the cost of things up. And some of the other big vulnerabilities that Trump has, and he knows that. So he's going to go back to his go to issue again and again and again. And Democrats have to figure out what they do about that.

HILL: Governor, we have about 30 seconds left. I will leave it to you.

PAWLENTY: Well, I think David's analysis is exactly right. Every day that Donald Trump is talking about being aggressive and cracking down on illegal immigration, it's a good political day for the president. And by the way, if you're the president of the United States, and you declare an emergency at the border relating to illegal immigration, its appropriate for him to question whether the court should be how far they should be sticking their nose into the business of the president when it comes to emergencies and foreign policy and foreign matters.

HILL: We're going to have to leave it there. That is a question, though, that is still being debated, hotly debated, as we know. So we'll continue to talk about it in the coming days. Thank you both.

OUTFRONT next, I'll speak with the president of Florida State University as we are learning more tonight about the victims in this mass shooting and whether there were any warning signs about the alleged gunman, who, of course, was a student at Florida State.

Plus, Trump tonight attacking the Fed chair, slamming him amid this trade war that the president started. As the White House reveals, it may be closer to removing Jerome Powell.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:33:48]

HILL: The breaking news, we now know more about the victims killed in the Florida state shooting. Robert Morales was a dining coordinator at Florida State for nearly a decade, and also a Florida State graduate. Tiru Chabba was a 45-year-old father of two who worked for the food services company Aramark.

Those details coming to us as we're also learning more about the suspected gunman's past and possible warning signs.

Nick Valencia is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHIEF LAWRENCE REVELL, TALLAHASSEE POLICE DEPARTMENT: At this point, there does not appear to be any connection at all between the shooter and any of the victims.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Officials in Tallahassee releasing more information today about the shooting at Florida State University that killed two and injured six. According to a law enforcement source, the suspected gunman, 20-year-old Phoenix Ikner, suffered from some emotional dysregulation and was prescribed medication. During interviews with family members, investigators were told he had stopped taking some of his prescribed medication.

The law enforcement official also says investigators are looking at the possibility of a connection between the shooting and a protest scheduled for yesterday afternoon by the university's Tallahassee Students for a Democratic Society, a student group that the suspect was reportedly critical of in the past.

But law enforcement is still in the early stages of the investigation and has not said what motivated the suspect.

[19:35:03]

One FSU student told CNN he knew the suspect from an extracurricular political club.

REID SEYBOLD, FSU STUDENT: He had continually made enough people uncomfortable where, you know, certain people had stopped coming. And that's kind of when we reached the breaking point with Phoenix, and we had asked him to leave. It's been a couple of years now. I can't give exact quotes. He, you know, talked about the ravages of multiculturalism and communism and how it's ruining America.

VALENCIA: Investigators revealing Thursday that he's the son of Jessica Ikner, a longtime Leon County sheriff's deputy. But we're now finding out more about his family background. CNN has also learned from court documents that Ikner had a tumultuous childhood with his parents, spending years battling over custody issues. When he was ten years old, his biological mother, Ann Marie Eriksen, flew him from Florida to Norway, violating a custody agreement. A judge ruled she had told her son she was taking him to Disneyworld, according to a court document filed by his father.

While his son was in Norway, his father claimed in a court filing his mother didn't buy him a toothbrush, and he went 103 days without brushing his teeth.

And in 2019, the suspects father filed a petition to change his son's name from Christian Eriksen to Phoenix Ikner. The suspect testified in support of the change, and a judge approved it over the objection of his biological mother.

All victims that were transported to the hospital are expected to survive their injuries.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do feel that all will make a full recovery.

VALENCIA: The suspect is also still in the hospital. REVELL: He did receive significant injuries in this event. Once he is

released from that facility, he'll be taken to a local detention facility where he will face the charges up to and including first degree murder.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VALENCIA (on camera): I was at a vigil earlier this evening outside FSU's football stadium, where there was thousands of people there, literally felt like the entire student body of FSU was there, many of them with tears in their eyes.

And behind me, this is one of the several memorials on campus, this is Legacy Walk. The heart of the university. Weve seen many students here come and go throughout the day, some of them coming here to pray and reflect as they head into the Easter weekend -- Erica.

HILL: Nick, thank you.

OUTFRONT tonight, Florida State University President Richard McCullough.

President McCullough, thank you for taking the time to join us tonight.

I know you spoke at the vigil a short time ago. We now know the identities of the two men who were killed, men who were well-known to students and staff. How is the Florida State community doing tonight?

RICHARD MCCULLOUGH, PRESIDENT, FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY: Well, this has been an emotional time for us, for sure. We're just completely heartbroken. And it's just been really -- it's been really difficult. But I think people are, you know, really come together and to support each other, and, you know, just working through it every day to make sure that we're providing all the support that we can to the students and staff and, and faculty.

HILL: I know there are so many who are -- who are hurting and trying to make sense of things in this moment. As we learn more about the two men who were killed, I wonder if you've had a chance to speak with their families, or also to speak with or visit those who are recovering right now in the hospital.

MCCULLOUGH: Yes, we did have a chance to speak with, one of the family members and -- and we did visit the students, the victims in the hospital, and did have a chance to, to meet with them. They're all, you know hurting and in pain and scared, but -- but are doing remarkably well. And are expected to fully recover. So were so grateful that that seems to be where we are in the outcome.

HILL: Yeah, that is certainly welcome news in this moment. Understandably, there are a number of questions, of course, about how this could have happened.

One student told CNN the suspect was asked to leave a political group that they were part of because of unsettling behavior. Here's more of what they told us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEYBOLD: He had continually made enough people, uncomfortable where, you know, certain people had stopped coming. And that's kind of when we reached the breaking point with Phoenix, and we had asked him to leave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Have you been made aware of any warning signs or any concerns leading up to this moment?

MCCULLOUGH: No. This is the first that we to my knowledge that I've heard of this going on. We -- we, of course, are a university that promotes free speech and actually one of the highest ranked in terms of free speech. So, we encourage civil discourse. But we worry -- until the shooting, I was unaware of this particular situation.

[19:40:02]

HILL: Several students who I spoke with yesterday as all of this was unfolding told me that active shooter response training is part of orientation when they come to campus, which is a sad testament to the times that we live in, but honestly not unexpected, given that most kids who are now of college age have been going through this since they were maybe, possibly even in elementary school. That said, even as you prepare for this, did you ever think that their community would have to deal with something like this kind of threat?

MCCULLOUGH: No, not at all. This is something that, you know, we certainly plan for. We just -- we just had a active shooter training, that just took place just a several weeks ago, with our FSU police. And so, it's something that we are -- we talk about all the time. We've made, you know, I made a lot of investments to make sure that we're ready, the response time was literally immediately.

The call came in and, and literally immediately there was a response, and the shooter was taken down. So, the number of lives that were saved are really significant. So I'm just really so proud of our first responders and what they've done. So you're -- and you're right, it's, you know, I heard from several presidents and chancellors who said to me, you know, hey, Rick, give me a call. I've been through this.

And so, if you -- you need to talk about it, let me know. It's just like, I can't. It's just hard to believe that this is that common.

HILL: President McCullough, thank you for taking the time to join us tonight.

MCCULLOUGH: Thank you for the opportunity. I appreciate it.

HILL: OUTFRONT next, Trump lashing out again at Fed Chair Jerome Powell for refusing to slash interest rates. And the White House tonight looking at whether Powell can in fact be removed from his post. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:46:31]

HILL: Breaking news, Trump again slamming his Fed chair, calling Jerome Powell out for not cutting interest rates just hours after Trump's top economic adviser said the White House is, in fact, studying whether Powell can be removed from his job.

All of this as Trump's trade war rocks the stock market and China ratchets up the pressure on Donald Trump to back down.

Ivan Watson is OUTFRONT with a look at China's critical bargaining chip.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is a computer mall in Hong Kong. It sells everything from security cameras to desktop computers and phones. And almost all of this technology is made with critically important elements called rare earths.

THOMAS KRUEMMER, EDITOR, RARE EARTH OBSERVER: Everything I can switch on and off would not really work without rare earths.

WATSON (voice-over): Take a smartphone, for example.

Rare earths are part of essential components in a standard iPhone. They're in the microphone, which is this tiny piece here. They're also in the motor that vibrates the phone when you get a phone call.

And guess which country has cornered the market on rare earths? China.

According to the International Energy Agency, China refines more than 90 percent of the world's rare earths. On April 4th, after the Trump administration began piling tariffs on Chinese goods, Beijing announced export controls on seven of 17 rare earth materials, saying the measures are needed to safeguard national security and interests and fulfill international obligations such as nonproliferation.

GRACELIN BASKARAN, DIRECTOR, OFFICIAL MINERALS SECURITY PROGRAM, CSIS: China's export controls on April 4th were retaliation at one of America's greatest vulnerabilities.

WATSON: Rare earths aren't just used in consumer technology. The Pentagon says around 900 pounds of the stuff are used in the F-35 Lightning II Stealth fighter. In 2010, the U.S. Government Accountability Office warned Chinese rare earths were being used in Abrams tanks and U.S. Navy ships.

BASKARAN: So we are entirely beholden to China. I mean, they are weaponizing it in a trade war is what is happening, right? So we're using tariffs. They are using minerals.

WATSON: In this executive order this week, President Trump wrote U.S. dependence on China for rare earths and other critical materials raises the potential for risks to national security, defense readiness, price stability, and economic prosperity, and resilience.

The U.S. has only one rare earth mine operating in California. Since 2020 the Pentagon invested more than $400 million trying to establish domestic rare earth supply chains. But experts say it will take years and huge investment for the U.S. to catch up with China's rare earth --

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: So, we had a problem there, obviously, with Ivan's piece. Bear with us for that.

Still to come here on OUTFRONT, we are hearing from the youngest survivor of the Oklahoma City bombing some 30 years ago. That story is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:54:30]

HILL: Tonight, the youngest survivor of the Oklahoma City bombing is speaking out, 30 years after the deadliest act of domestic terrorism in U.S. history. One hundred sixty-eight people, including 19 children, were killed.

Ed Lavandera is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Watching these grainy home videos with Eddie Raines is like stepping into a frozen vault.

EDYE RAINES, CHASE AND COLTON'S MOTHER: That was every day around the house. It was just monsterville.

[19:55:01]

LAVANDERA: Traveling back in time to see her two boys, three-year-old Chase and two-year-old Colton.

UNIDENTIFIED BOY: I got cold on my sheet. Whoa.

RAINES: It's like seeing a picture come to life.

UNIDENTIFIED BOY: I said shut up.

LAVANDERA: When you hear their voices.

RAINES: It's weird. I don't ever watch this stuff ever.

LAVANDERA: When the world first saw Eddie Raines, April 19th, 1995, she was a 22-year-old mother running around the Oklahoma City federal building. Live news coverage captured her agony in the moments just after the bombing that killed 168 people, including 19 children.

In that moment, could you have envisioned what your life would be like 30 years later?

RAINES: On the day that it happened, you think it's the end of the world. It feels like it's the end of the world.

LAVANDERA: What is it that you specifically remember?

RAINES: I remember how loud I wailed and screamed and cried. I can almost hear myself in the back of my head.

LAVANDERA: Her brother, who was a police officer, would find the bodies of Chase and Colton in the rubble. They were in the day care center on the second floor of the federal building, too close to where Timothy McVeigh parked the moving van filled with nearly 5,000 pounds of explosives. When you think of your boys, what do you -- what do you think?

RAINES: They were such happy, like precious, wonderful little creatures.

LAVANDERA: The idea that you don't get to see what they would have become has to weigh on you.

RAINES: I do wonder, like what? What would they be? I don't know. So, I wonder about that all the time.

LAVANDERA: But six children did survive the bombing. They were called the miracle babies.

PJ Allen was just 18 months old.

PJ ALLEN, SURVIVOR OF OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING: When they found me out inside the building. I was on fire.

LAVANDERA: The blast burned more than half his body. Rocks and debris penetrated his skull, and when he left the hospital several months later, it was a headline making moment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going home.

LAVANDERA: For almost ten years, Allen lived with a breathing tube because his lungs were so badly scorched.

ALLEN: Which gives me a unique voice that I have now.

LAVANDERA: It is a unique voice. That's a great way to look at it.

Today, he's 31 years old, living in Oklahoma City. He has no memory of that day, but has spent a lifetime searching for meaning.

ALLEN: I believe that we all survived for a reason, and its up to us to go through life and try to figure out what that is. For me, I believe that trying to find a way to give back is my purpose.

LAVANDERA: Allen found that work as a technician repairing military planes at Tinker Air Force Base and always fully aware that he's a direct link to one of the darkest moments in American history. Do you get angry about it when you -- never.

ALLEN: Too lucky to be alive, to take a moment feeling any type of hatred.

LAVANDERA: You perhaps, maybe more than -- than many people, realize how grateful it is to take each breath that you have.

ALLEN: Oh, yeah. Definitely, don't ever take life for granted.

RAINES: He said, I love you, mommy.

LAVANDERA: Just days after the bombing, Edye Raines spoke with CNN showing Chase and Colton's untouched bedroom.

RAINES: It's all I have left.

LAVANDERA: In those early days, the weight of the future seemed unbearable.

RAINES: What do you do when people ask you? Do you have children? What do you say? Well, I did have children. My children are dead. What do you say? You don't know what to say.

LAVANDERA: Raines would go on to have two more children. Thirty years later, she's learned to live with the memories of Chase and Colton.

RAINES: The first ten years there were. There was a lot of anger. I was angry. After this long, you can't just really harbor that hatred and resentment.

LAVANDERA: And do you think most people have found some form of peace?

RAINES: I think everyone has dealt with our situation with grace and dignity. I mean, as much as you can.

LAVANDERA: Right.

RAINES: What else do you do? You can't change it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA (on camera): I asked both Edye and PJ if they ever get tired of being asked about the bombing or talking about it, and I was struck that they both told me no, that almost every year they return to the memorial at the bombing site on April 19th to be with other victims' families and survivors. Talking about it, they say, is their way of keeping the memory of those who died alive. And in that, they have found great comfort and peace for three decades now.

Back to you.

HILL: Ed, thank you. Such a moving and important story.

Thanks to all of you for joining us tonight. I'm Erica Hill, in for Erin Burnett. Stay tuned. "AC360" starts right now.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Tonight on "360", breaking news on multiple legal fronts and deportation cases, pitting the White House against a string of judges, including one who says he's got reason to find the administration in contempt.

Also, tonight is time running out for a U.S. brokered peace deal over the war in Ukraine.

And Dr. Sanjay Gupta on what happens when the miracle fades and patients discover the limits of those new weight loss drugs.

Good evening.