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Erin Burnett Outfront
Now: Prayers & Masses, Flags Lowered, Eiffel Tower Dark For Pope; Dow Drops Sharply, Dollar Tumbles As Trump Lashes Out At Powell; GOP Rep Suggests Hegseth Should Be Fired: "Wouldn't Tolerate It". Aired 7-8p ET
Aired April 21, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:22]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
A world in mourning as millions grieve the loss of Pope Francis. Cardinal Timothy Dolan joins me to remember the pope, along with lifelong Catholic Kerry Kennedy.
And breaking news tonight, Wall Street meltdown. Stocks plunging after Trump picks a fight. A personal one with the Fed chair. Einstein, Ives and the whiteboard are all ahead.
Plus, could Pete Hegseth be in more legal trouble with the revelation of a second Signal chat? Top secret information with his family lawyer. Are there signs of a cover up now? Our legal analyst, Ryan Goodman, says there are. He's up next.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett on this Monday.
OUTFRONT tonight, saying goodbye. At some point, we all woke up this morning, whether you were in the middle of the night or early this morning, and you saw the death of Pope Francis, something that the whole world cares about and mourns tonight. No matter your faith. He was a man of faith.
This is the pope's hometown of Buenos Aires right now. Mass at the landmark Metropolitan Cathedral there, where he was archbishop before he became pope.
And tonight, a second rosary for Pope Francis at Santa Maria Maggiore Basilica in Rome. That is where the pope has said he wants to be buried.
In Washington and across the United States tonight, not just in the Vatican, flags are at half-staff in memory of the pope. President Trump ordering flags at half staff until sunset on the day of interment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He was a good man. He worked hard. He -- he loved the world. And it's an honor to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now, Trump says he will attend the pope's funeral. Former President Barack Obama writing on social media, among so many who are expressing their condolences. Obama said Pope Francis was the rare leader who made us want to be better people.
It was, though, Vice President J.D. Vance, who actually met with the pope hours before his death. The last world leader to meet with the pope. Vance said that the pope was obviously very ill. The Vatican says tonight that the pope died of a stroke and heart failure following that lengthy bout of double pneumonia.
In fact, doctors had thought he would never leave that hospital. They thought he was going to die there. It was a miracle that he came out, a miracle that he lived through Easter Sunday. He was hospitalized for five weeks before being released just under a month ago.
Earlier today, the pope's official residence at the Vatican was sealed, signifying the start of the mourning period. The acting head of the Vatican putting a red ribbon on the door, tying it shut, putting a wax seal on it.
And Pope Francis was just seen in public yesterday. That was the last time giving an easter blessing. He will now lie in state in St. Peter's Basilica, where people will be able to come pay their respects as soon as Wednesday. Timing of the funeral is not yet set, but should be by this weekend. In the days following the funeral, cardinals from around the world will start to gather at the Vatican and begin the process of choosing a new pope.
Ben Wedeman is OUTFRONT in St. Peter's Square tonight.
And, Ben, I know you're learning new information tonight about where and how the pope wanted to be buried. What are you learning?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. This was his last testament that was published by the Vatican press office. They said he wants to be buried at the Basilica of Maria Santa Maggiore. That is a church where he went there before every trip he made. And he went there after every trip -- after returning from every trip. And in fact, when he got out of Gemelli Hospital two weeks ago, he passed by, although he did not go inside that basilica.
Now he has made it clear that he wants to be buried in the earth. He wants a simple tomb with just his name written on it in Latin. And that really reflects a man who was not interested in the gilded frills of life. The -- the sort of exaggeration that is so common in today's world.
He was a man who combined compassion with humility.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WEDEMAN (voice-over): Bells tolled across the Vatican as thousands flocked to St. Peter's Square to pay homage to Pope Francis. Moments after the announcement of his passing.
CARDINAL KEVIN FARRELL, CAMERLENGO (through translator): At 7:35 this morning, the bishop of Rome, Francis, returned to the house of the father.
WEDEMAN: Those bells soon echoing around the world.
In Paris, at Notre Dame Cathedral.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The best pope of the era.
WEDEMAN: To the heart of London.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's a man of the people.
WEDEMAN: To Bethlehem and the birthplace of Christianity itself.
[19:05:02]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will pray for him, and we love him so much.
WEDEMAN: For the 88-year-old people's pontiff, grief now touching those he touched. Traveling the globe much as he did. A reflection of the paths he took as he sought to bring comfort in the Congo, where his 2023 visit was the first for the papacy in nearly 40 years.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: May god welcome his soul because the pope really cared about us.
WEDEMAN: To the Philippines, where in 2015, more than 6 million gathered in Manila to get a glimpse and a prayer.
JUDE AQUINO, ALTAR SERVER: For the youth like us, he's such a big role model.
WEDEMAN: A role model that transcended borders, seeking to bridge politics and a humanitarian promise as he made more than 40 foreign trips to points all over the globe.
POPE FRANCIS, CATHOLIC CHURCH (through translator): Let us pray for the whole world, because let us have a big brotherhood.
WEDEMAN: He set the tone for his pontificate in his first speech, and for the dozen years to follow, known for humility, service, and tolerance, a pope of firsts, the first modern day pope born outside of Europe, and the first Jesuit to lead the Holy See.
POPE FRANCIS: God is peace. Let us ask him to help us to be peacemakers each day in our life, in our families, in our cities and nations, in the whole world.
WEDEMAN: A peace he sought in the midst of war in Gaza, speaking almost nightly to the parish priest of the enclave's tiny Christian community before falling ill. That message, uniting the world, at least for a moment as world leaders offer their condolences, including Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy posting to X. He knew how to give hope, ease, suffering through prayer and foster unity, unifying even those at war in a shared reverence.
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): The pope has done a lot, not only for his flock, but for the world in general.
WEDEMAN: Even President Trump lowering flags to half-mast in honor of the Catholic leader, despite their differing views on immigration.
TRUMP: He was a good man. He worked hard. He -- he loved the world. And it's an honor to do that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WEDEMAN: Well, certainly in style, President Trump and Pope Francis could not be more different. We shall see when this funeral takes place. And we still don't know when that will be, how the President Trump will say some final words about this pontiff -- Erin.
BURNETT: Thank you very much, Ben. Of course, in such a somber moment.
OUTFRONT now, Cardinal Timothy Dolan, the archbishop of New York.
Your Eminence, I'm so grateful to have the opportunity to speak to you on -- on such a sad day, although I know in some ways such a miracle that he was able to live these weeks after his hospitalization.
I know you knew him. You attended his conclave, and you spoke to him many times. What did he mean to you?
CARDINAL TIMOTHY DOLAN, ARCHBISHOP OF NEW YORK: Well, Erin, first of all, I'm the one who's grateful. Thanks for having me on. It gives me the chance to thank the community for the tremendous outpouring of affection and sympathy. So, it's good to be with you.
What did he mean to me personally? A lot. So I think about the worldwide impact. I think about the impact on the wider church.
I also have to think about the impact on me. I mean, when you have a -- when you get a phone call from the pope, when your mom dies, when your brother in law gets a letter signed by the pope, handwritten by the pope, because I told the pope that Fred was dying of cancer, when he called me during COVID and said, how's New York doing through all this?
When he called me on October 7th and said, how are our Jewish friends doing in New York after the vicious attack? This means a lot. He was a -- he was a pope with a big heart. I'm not surprised that -- I'm not surprised that it was the heart finally went.
And it was interesting, Erin, between -- among all these last months, these last months of suffering and frailty, the physicians would always say his heart is very strong. And I thought, you bet it is. His heart is strong. His heart is big.
His heart breaks with the suffering. His heart bursts with love for people. And we're going to miss him. A man with a heart. BURNETT: I will never forget being on Fifth Avenue, across from St.
Patrick's Cathedral, Cardinal Nolan, when -- when he -- when he came down, and just the crowds -- theres -- there's rare moments in in this line of work where you see people gathered for joy. That was one of them.
An Easter Sunday was so remarkable. You mentioned his frailty, Your Eminence. And, you know, he found the strength to be there.
[19:10:02]
It almost seems as if he just. He wanted to get through that day of rebirth and regeneration. He blessed the crowd gathered at the Vatican. But he was -- he was out of breath. He could only read a few phrases of his address.
And it actually made me think. Cardinal -- back to in March, when he couldn't speak yet when he was trying to recover, and he described his frailty as a blessing. He said it was an opportunity -- this was the words that he put out in his prayer to share in body and spirit the condition of so many sick and suffering people.
And I wonder, Cardinal, as you think about that, at such a fraught moment in our world, what impact does his letting us see that his weakness and his descent? What does that have on all of us?
DOLAN: You're on to something, Erin. He -- he allowed us. We obviously watched him live and live beautifully, but he also allowed us to watch him die. And he wasn't embarrassed by his suffering.
Look, what is the universally acclaimed symbol of Christianity? But the cross of Christ Jesus, we believe, was most powerful at his weakest moment when he suffered and died for us on the cross. And that's what -- that's what Pope Francis believed. He taught us that just being -- just being alive is actually more important than doing stuff.
He wasn't able to do all the stuff that he that he wanted to do, but he just wanted to be with his people. You have this. His physicians are saying, look, Holy Father, you got to stay away from big crowds.
So yesterday, the last day of his life, he's driving in an open Jeep and through two, 200,000 people who were sneezing and cheering them. He said, look, my -- I just want to be with my people and the Lord will take care of me. And that's, that's that, that love and that dare and that boldness that endeared him to so many.
BURNETT: I know, Cardinal, that after you speak with us tomorrow, you're going to be leaving for Rome, and you'll be there for the funeral and for the upcoming conclave, when the cardinals and you among them, one of the 135 who will vote on -- on who will be the next pope.
I'm curious. I had recently read his book my life, which I found quite profound in its simplicity, and he talks about he takes issues on not just migration, which he took on migrants, right? And he wasn't afraid to be political when he needed to be. But he talked about an era of conspiracy theory and propaganda and fake news and artificial intelligence.
He took all those issues on. He wasn't afraid to be in the moment. I'm curious as to how you see where the church should go from here. Do you want to see that same -- that same presence in the moment from the next pope?
DOLAN: Yeah. Erin, you're on to something. He reminds me very much. And only us old timers are going to remember Pope St. John the 23rd. He was pope from eight -- from 1958 to 1963. And he was very much a -- Pope Francis was very much like John the 23rd.
And John the 23rd had a famous saying. He said, the church must be able to read the signs of the time. The church is not of the world, but she's in the world. And Francis, like -- we've had magnificent popes, my Lord that we can all gratefully remember. But he had a unique ability to kind of be very savvy about the things of the world.
Somebody said to me today, Erin, said, you know, most of the time we expect the popes to kind of lift us up to God. And Francis did that. But this lady says to me, he kind of brought God down to us. And that, of course, is what we Christians call God becoming one of us, taking flesh.
And I thought, she's on to something. This pope not only lifted us up, but sort of brought God down to our level. So, he takes all these all these issues in the world. He's not afraid of them. And he has wise commentary about him. It's like -- it's like the world was sitting next to him on the front porch listening to your grandpa sharing wisdom because he's been through it all.
And he's -- he's aware of God's design and God's will and wants to share that wisdom with us. That's -- that's what he was. And that's I think that's going to be essential. We got to keep that in the man who occupies the chair of Peter, next.
BURNETT: And we're looking at live images in Buenos Aires of people praying here. Obviously, in the -- in the early mid-evening hours now, now, I remember growing up, Pope John Paul during the getting my confirmation at that time, as the church was going through some pretty seismic changes, right?
And here we are now in a world where if I -- if I'm -- if I'm correct here, your eminence, of the 135 cardinals who are going to be voting on the next pope, 80 percent of them, the vast majority, 108 of them were appointed by Pope Francis. I mean, that is something when you think about what he cared about, issues that he took on, and maybe he didn't go as far as some of the church would want on issues of abortion or, or gay marriage, but for civil unions and supporting LGBTQ, what impact has he had on the church already with so many of those cardinals having been chosen by him?
[19:15:14]
DOLAN: You hinted at it. See, every time he appointed new cardinals, I had to run to my bookshelf and get the atlas to find out where most of these nations were from, where these new my new brother cardinals were coming from. This is great. He had a -- he had a great sensitivity to -- to expansion, to inclusion, to diversity. He loved that.
He didn't want -- he didn't want any language, any racial background, any geographic area to be unrepresented in the life of the church. This is -- this is a legacy that's phenomenal.
Keep in mind, in 2013, I was honored to be part of that conclave, so this will be my second time at the plate. At that time, 95 percent of the cardinals have been appointed by either John Paul II or Benedict XVI.
So, but -- but that doesn't really that doesn't really kind of have a huge bearing on how they're going to vote. What will have a huge bearing is where they're from. They're aware of the grassroots. They're -- they're aware of the of the of the good things. And darn it, the challenging things that they face in these corners of the world that are unrepresented.
He always said he wanted to go to the side of the road. And did he ever and did he ever?
BURNETT: Yeah, those -- those images of him holding the suffering or kissing the feet of the prisoners. You can never take those out of your head once you see that.
Well, Your Eminence, I'm so grateful. Thank you so much. All of us for -- for coming on. We appreciate it. And I know --
DOLAN: Hope we see you over in Rome.
BURNETT: We'll see you over in Rome. Yes, indeed.
DOLAN: And thanks for your --
BURNETT: Good night.
And next, I'm going to speak to Kerry Kennedy, whose uncle JFK was the first Catholic president of America, and asked her about how she thinks her brother is doing as well.
Plus, breaking news, the markets tank as Trump calls the Fed chair a, quote, major loser. And the trade war ramps up even more.
Plus, DHS Secretary Kristi Noem's purse was stolen while she was at a restaurant, even as she was surrounded by Secret Service agents. The purse had $3,000 of cash inside it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:21:45]
BURNETT: All right. These are pictures from around the world right now of people gathering mourners, paying tribute to Pope Francis. A somber moment, but an incredibly special one. As people are gathered together to share something, to share care for something instead of frustration or anger at something.
I want to go now to Brynn Gingras. She's live from St. Patrick's cathedral, right here in New York City.
And, Brynn, you're seeing some of that, that spirit as well. People who are coming to pay homage to -- to just pay their respects to the pope.
BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Erin, it really people from all over the world, obviously. St. Patrick's Cathedral, a huge tourist spot here in New York City, and we have been meeting people from really all around the world feeling like they needed to be here at St. Patrick's Cathedral to pay their respects to the pope and, really just expressing gratitude for this man, for this person, what he meant to not only Catholics, but to the entire world.
I saw one woman who came out. She was in tears. She said she felt broken today. Another person expressing hope.
You know, my producer, Bonnie and I, we went in, we sat in at the 5:30 mass, a daily mass. We listened to the homily of the priest. He talked about how you know, there is grieving to be had here, but there also is hope. And remember that Pope Francis's last message was one of hope.
I want you to hear from one woman who is a New Yorker, but was in Rome when Pope Francis was named pope. Listen to what she had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When he came out and said "Bouna sera" and his simplicity. And really echoed St. Paul's words. I fought the good fight. I finished the race and I kept the faith. All the things you talked about, things he brought up that he really is a traditionally talked about, he fought the good fight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GINGRAS: You know, Erin, I've been struck by how many young people have come out to St. Patrick's today to give their sort of condolences and to pray for Pope Francis. And I was listening to your conversation with Cardinal Dolan about this next pope. Who will it be? That's a big question we've heard from a lot of people.
One person saying, you know, Pope Francis started the conversation on so many topics that you mentioned to Cardinal Dolan, and they hope this next pope will continue this conversation to continue to bring together this world and bring peace throughout this world -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right, Brynn, thank you so much.
And OUTFRONT now, Kerry Kennedy, the daughter of the late Robert F. Kennedy and author of "Being Catholic Now".
And, you know, because, Kerry, you know, you wrote a book about faith has been so central in your life and obviously in the definition of your family in this country, right? Because of JFK, your uncle being the first Catholic president of the United States, serving at the time, that no, that could never happen, right? And -- and yet -- and yet it did. And he was.
You met Pope Francis and your -- your faith has been so definitional in your life. Why was he so special to you?
KERRY KENNEDY, DAUGHTER OF ROBERT F. KENNEDY, AUTHOR OF "BEING CATHOLIC NOW": Well, I think just being in his presence, you felt like you were in the presence of holiness, that there was a sense of peace, that there was a -- it's something indescribable, but it's -- it's like the same as the beauty of a sunset. Like your heart is full. And so that's number one.
But I think he also really tried to bring the Catholic Church back to our roots of Jesus Christ.
[19:25:06]
You know, of being on saying that we must have a preferential option for the poor, being on the side of migrants being on the side of peace over war, talking about these issues again and again and again. The pope who placed more women in positions of leadership than any other in the history of the Vatican, somebody who -- who spoke about sexual minorities in a way that had never been done before.
Now, of course, I think the church has a long way to go on, a lot of those issues. But he showed us a path forward. And I think he brought so many Catholics who were disillusioned during the sexual assault crisis. He brought them back in and said, there's a way forward.
BURNETT: Well, and it's interesting, you know, in autobiography, he writes about he's still not for gay marriage. But then he says, but civil unions are another thing. And if you love a person that should be honored and respected, and for the church that that in and of itself was a massive move. That was for the church.
As I mentioned to Cardinal Dolan, he did take political issues on head on when he believed that something was right. Migration migrants were front and center in that. And President Trump ordered the flags to go to half-staff today in honor of the pope. He's going to the funeral. But the pope was -- was fearless in his criticism of Trump's crackdown on migrants.
And Trump was asked about it today about what the pope had said. And here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: He preached tolerance for migrants. He preached tolerance for migrants.
TRUMP: Yes, he did.
REPORTER: Do you agree with that, or did you disagree?
TRUMP: Yeah, I do, I really do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KENNEDY: Okay. That is so great that he said that. Now all he has to do is -- is follow his words. President Trump, so if he really believes that we should be, tolerant to migrants, then bring back Kilmar Abrego Garcia to the United States, make sure that everyone has due process. Make sure that that we end the torture, the use of prolonged solitary confinement in ICE facilities run by the GEO Group across Louisiana, Florida, New York state. Treat people with humanity and dignity. That's what the United States stands for. And that's what this administration needs to do.
BURNETT: Now, I want to ask you about your brother and you in the context of faith. He is part, obviously, RFK Jr., part of the Trump administration, is Health and Human Services secretary. And I know you don't agree with him on a lot of things that that he's doing, obviously, in his role right now.
Right now, he is in the spotlight for autism and vaccines again for autism advocates. They say his comments are misleading and harmful. You know, in leaving the door open to vaccines being linked to autism, which of course, has been disproven. He has vowed to investigate what he calls an environmental toxin, which I know you're aware of, Kerry, but he says it's causing an epidemic of autism, which is a direct contradiction to the CDC.
And if you go on social media, you'll see people that say, well, inflation has caused autism because those two charts line up. Exactly. And, you know, you can find any chart that will line up and make that point to call out the points that he's making.
But how worried are you that he is doing real harm here, Kerry?
KENNEDY: Yeah, I think that look, let's start with this. I love my brother, and I not only love him because all of us have to love our siblings, but I also like him. And if he was sitting at a dinner party with you, you'd be laughing and you'd be joyful, and you would find him incredibly compelling.
BURNETT: He sat right where you sat, and we've had a very good conversation. He listens. He converses.
KENNEDY: So, you know, but I do disagree with -- with almost everything he says from a public policy perspective. And, I think, you know, vaccines -- everybody go get the measles vaccine right now. If you haven't gotten it, go get it. Get the COVID vaccine, get every vaccine that's out there, go and get it, because that's the way you protect yourself. Thats the way you protect your children. And that's the way, the only way our country and the world will be protected from disease.
BURNETT: So, you know, you talk about you love him and you like him. And I think it's the second part, actually, that I find the most important because of course, you love your sibling, but you also like him. And that I think that says so much. You -- you have faith in common. Your Catholic faith. He said it has
helped him overcome his drug addiction.
[19:30:01]
He's been very open about that. And he talked about growing up in a religious home where he grew up with you. And here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT F. KENNEDY, JR., HHS SECRETARY: Well, you said the rosary at least once a day, oftentimes three times a day. We prayed before and after every meal. We read the bible every night. We read the lives of the saints. We read we -- and we went to church sometimes twice a day. So, we would go to 7:00 mass and 8:00 mass in the summers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Okay. He's obviously exaggerating there.
KENNEDY: Okay. Well, that last thing twice.
BURNETT: Okay, okay. I was about to say I grew up in a Catholic home, and that's -- that's all very excessive. But -- but can --
KENNEDY: A lot of it is true but twice a day.
BURNETT: Twice a day. Okay.
KENNEDY: Sure.
BURNETT: Can the death of a pope or any other moment help bridge the gap between you?
KENNEDY: You know, I think I believe in faith. And I pray every day for for union. And I hope that the next pope will be somebody who can bring Catholics together. There are a billion of us. To bring Catholics together with all Christians, to bring together everybody who believes in God.
You know, essentially, this is all about love and finding ways of loving each other. And that love starts with a recognition of the dignity of every human being. And frankly, that's why I have spent my life promoting the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, because that document is the physical, legal manifestation of what love looks like in our country and around the globe.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Kerry, thank you so much.
KENNEDY: Thank you.
BURNETT: I'm happy to see you and to and to be here with you. Thank you.
And next, the breaking news, the price of gold skyrocketing, all new level, dollar plunging, Bad news, as Trump bullies the Fed chair. There's no other word for it. Einstein and Ives, along with the white board, are OUTFRONT next. Wait until you see the story we have tonight.
And a Republican now calling for Pete Hegseth to step down, saying it is time. After reports of a second Signal chat group about war plans in Yemen, which wasn't even other national security people, it had his wife and brother on it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:31:30]
BURNETT: Breaking news: Donald Trump delivering another brutal day to Wall Street. The Dow plunging more than 971 points. The Dow, nearly another thousand, 2.5 percent. The lower you go. You don't need as much to get a big percent drop.
As fears grow about the president's escalating attacks on Fed Chairman Jerome Powell. The Fed, of course, is an independent entity.
And Trump has posted in part, quote: There can be almost -- there can almost be no inflation, but there can be a slowing of the economy unless Mr. Too Late, a major loser lowers interest rates now. Europe has already lowered seven times. Powell has always been too late.
Of course, inflation is different in Europe than it is here. And many experts warn that Trump's tariffs are part of the problem here. You can have the combination horrible combination of terrible impacts on growth as prices are going up. At the same time, stagflation, that means the Fed can't cut rates to solve the problem.
And Trump's post comes just days after this threat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If I want him out, he'll be out of there real fast. Believe me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Another warning sign is the price of gold hitting another record high, topping $3,400 an ounce. The U.S. dollar also heading in the opposite direction, hitting a three-year low today, makes buying things more expensive for Americans.
Dan Ives and Peter Tuchman are both OUTFRONT.
So, Peter, look, you got Jerome Powell, who is a respected professional, all right? I don't know anybody in the business world who doesn't respect for sure, they may not love every single thing he does, but Trump coming out and saying he's a loser and acting this way. What kind of impact does that have on the market? Just seeing that sort of not just childishness, but that behavior?
PETER TUCHMAN, TRADER AT THE NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE: Yeah, go for it.
DAN IVES, GLOBAL HEAD OF TECHNOLOGY RESEARCH, WEDBUSH SECURITIES: I mean, look, I would just say, it is pouring gasoline on the fire. Thats really this market because it's part of the sell America trade. The uncertainty that you create go back to, you know, you go back to for years you couldn't own the market in China because you had no idea what was going to come out of Beijing in a weekend. Thats what's created.
And Peter and I talk about this all the time. The uncertainty, the nervousness, and this just add to -- and that's why this market is just selling off the way it is.
TUCHMAN: You know what? I'm not a fan of bullying. I think that's ridiculous.
BURNETT: Yeah.
TUCHMAN: We don't have to go there. Right there. He's a respected gentleman. I think he's done an -- in my opinion.
BURNETT: Powell.
TUCHMAN: Powell, yeah, has done an amazing job. Think about it. We've gotten, you know, inflation down from 8.5 percent to two and a half. He's -- he's he has lived up to all -- all his promises in my opinion and done an amazing job coming out of COVID.
So, you know, I -- the fear is that if, if, God forbid, he's able to get him out of there is were going to be, you know, changing captains in the middle of -- of a ship that's sort of going down, right? I mean, that's like a tsunami.
BURNETT: And then you could end up -- in worst case, you end up with a chairman who actually does what the president wants, who does the bidding, exactly.
TUCHMAN: Exactly, who does not understand the basic premise of economics and what may happen with stagflation. And the fact is that cutting them now -- look, we've gone through two years of were cutting rates. There was an emotional relationship where you cut rates, market rallies, and that's what happens. Thats not going to happen this time because the components are different.
IVES: And exactly, tariffs -- without tariffs, you're cutting. Tariffs has created in my opinion the biggest inflationary move coming out of the White House in the last 100 years.
BURNETT: All right. So, I have a friend named Nick who started a small business. And I think it speaks to this, but actually sets up a huge question about what could be really happening here.
So, Jamie, who is our fearless stage director, has some -- some things here.
[19:40:00]
All right. Thank you, Jamie. Okay. So, these things are stuffed animals, right? Okay. Now, like I
said, Nick has a small business. I think these are really cool. And you collect stuffed animals. You got 30 on your bed.
TUCHMAN: I love stuffed animals.
BURNETT: Okay, this is a framel. The frog and a camel mixed together. Okay. Sea dog, sea lion and a dog. And then they make little ones as a penguin and a wolf.
Okay, I know you want it. These are my kids.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: So the theory here is, what makes us different, makes all the difference in the world. They're random rules. Okay. And so, Nick started this company five years ago as his dream. He started making them. It's been doing really well. So let me just show you because and this is actually setting up a really important question.
All right. Sorry. So, right now, Nick has $100,000, paid. All right. Paid. Paid to two factories in China. They're in Shenzhen.
So they've got two factories. Okay. And they have here's the two factories. They have paid $100,000. So they've got a whole bunch of these. They can go to randomals.com (ph) see all the ones. They're all sitting there waiting to come over.
So ordinarily they go straight from there in Shenzhen and they get on a big container ship. Thats a bad looking ship. But, okay, so you get all the containers now. Right now, not happening. In fact, he said literally they're saying they don't even know where they're storing them. They're storing them somewhere near these factories.
He doesn't know how long they're going to be willing to store them, because in order to get them loaded onto the ship, he has to pay an additional $145,000. So, you have to add those two numbers together. So, he has to pay $245,000.
TUCHMAN: To get them on the ship to get them to America.
BURNETT: To get them on the ship. Okay.
And he doesn't have the money to do it. So, his randomals are sitting over in storage somewhere. He doesn't know how long. Okay. And then he says, by the time if this clears up, he wants to get them on the ship. There may not. You may not even be able to get container space because so many other people are doing that.
His view is this could make the supply chain disruptions during COVID look simple.
IVES: It's going to make that almost look like nothing relative to what we're seeing. Look at the ship data that's turning around, coming out of Singapore, coming out, and exactly what he's seeing. It's the math. TUCHMAN: He didn't they say that today, Mr. Trump was meeting with
people from Target and Walmart CEOs.
BURNETT: Yeah.
TUCHMAN: Right. Who said that they are sitting there with so much inventory in China that they may just let -- let go down because they're -- they're not -- they can't afford to bring them in.
BURNETT: And you think, okay. And -- and I also want to say something else about this. He said, okay. So, people might say, well, why are you making these stuffed animals in China? And you know what, by the way, I'm not going to say who he looked at, but he looked extensively at doing it in United States.
He said, we don't have the supply chain for it. We don't have the materials for it. We don't have the labor for it. And in fact, America doesn't want to be making stuffed animals. We have moved beyond that. And guess what was the point there?
IVES: And guess what? I'd also tell you.
BURNETT: Yeah.
IVES: Guess who eventually, if he decides to bring it over and pay that, who pays the tariff? The consumer.
BURNETT: As much as someone's going to pay extra to buy one of these.
TUCHMAN: Are we living in some delusion, not realizing that almost everything that we use in our day-to-day life, from our iPhones on down, are made in China? We just had we just saw when China decided to divulge the news that all of our Birkin bags and our all of those things are being made there, right? I mean, so that's the reality of this.
BURNETT: So how much time, dan, when you look at it from a tech perspective and I mean, were talking stuffed animals here, but iPhones, how much time until the damage he's talking about is done where you've got that supply chain disruption. You can't just load the stuffed animals on that container ship in Shenzhen.
IVES: Three weeks.
BURNETT: Three weeks.
IVES: You have three weeks.
BURNETT: Three weeks.
IVES: I mean, right now, it's that's why, like, you know, me and Peter, we've been talking all the time. Times ticking. Because when inventory ultimately sells down and you are now getting to a point, we're getting into that red zone. And that's why, like they need to get deals on the table. You got three weeks. BURNETT: And he said by the way for them, they've got to put in the
order by sometime in May for Christmas. And that's 80 percent of sales.
TUCHMAN: All these small business, right? Exactly. We're already starting to talk about Christmas deliveries, right? I mean, that's kind of nuts. Remember when you were before you-- you went away for a few days?
We talked about the fact that Apple chartered planes to come here with billions of dollars of iPhones. Think about it, $1 trillion company to make it here before the tariffs hit. I mean, it's just almost this odd level of pettiness. That's just -- it's insanity.
BURNETT: All right. Well, thank you both. I know you -- I know you want one. I know -- I know you do. You said he's got 35 stuffed animals.
TUCHMAN: You know what? We're going to reach out and help your friend, Dan. What's his name?
BURNETT: His name is Nick. It's Randomals.
TUCHMAN: All right. We're going to come and help you out there, Nick.
BURNETT: All right. Next, Pete Hegseth sharing detailed war plans in another group chat with his wife, his brother and his lawyer. Here's why our legal analyst, Ryan Goodman, says that this specific chat could be ten times worse for Hegseth than the first one, with actual national security officials on it.
And DHS Secretary Kristi Noem's purse stolen from a restaurant, $3,000 cash inside. The Secret Service was there with her. So, what happened?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news, the first Republican is now calling for defense secretary Pete Hegseth to stand down. Congressman Don Bacon telling "Politico" today, I find it unacceptable, and I wouldn't tolerate it if I were in charge. He's acting like he's above the law, and that shows an amateur person.
This comes as CNN has learned Hegseth shared detailed war plans about a military operation against the Houthis in Yemen, not just on a group that included "The Atlantic's" Jeffrey Goldberg, but on a totally different second Signal group, which appears to be personal.
It was on his personal phone. His wife was on it, former Fox News producer, his brother was on it and his lawyer was on it, along with what sources tell us were -- okay, you ready for that? As if those three individuals weren't bothersome. More than a dozen other people.
OUTFRONT now, Ryan Goodman, legal analyst and former special counsel at the Department of Defense.
This is pretty shocking. I mean, the other one was obviously bad. I guess everything, though, becomes relative.
RYAN GOODMAN, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL AT DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE: I think that's right. And I think that for many people absorbing this news, they might, I think, be clouded in thinking about it as though this is about Signal.
[19:50:05]
And it was bad before because all the cabinet members were on Signal, which is an unsecured system, to talk about battle plans. Here, it's not necessarily even being on signal. It's that he's communicating the battle plans to people who should never receive it.
BURNETT: Right. His wife, his brother, more than a dozen other people?
GOODMAN: Yeah.
BURNETT: His personal lawyer?
GOODMAN: Yeah.
BURNETT: I mean, it's --
GOODMAN: Yeah. So, the first one was about like, was this gross negligence in the way in which they were doing it? This isn't about gross negligence. It's purposeful dissemination of national defense information to people who have no basis for receiving it. Thats what the law is actually aimed at.
BURNETT: And you're seeing signs of a cover up here. In what way?
GOODMAN: Well, after the first scandal, there's an oversight group called American Oversight that they litigated this before Judge Boasberg again happens to be in the D.C. Circuit, saying they're supposed to preserve all federal records.
And when I look back at what the DOD and the DOJ said in response to that, all federal records in the first Signal chart, they had a very narrow reading of the judge's order to preserve those records. They said, okay, well preserve the records of that Signal chat on that -- on that Houthi incident with those individuals.
And then when they wrote in again, they said, we have searched Secretary Hegseth's device. We now know there's another device. So that's the issue for me is like, were they really being that clever because they actually knew that there was something much more incriminating on a second device.
BURNETT: And then -- and then a personal phone, too, not secure. And it's unbelievable.
All right. Ryan Goodman, thank you very much.
And also, tonight, Kristi Noem. Her purse was stolen with $3,000 in cash. And this matters not just because that's stunning, but because of how it happened. The DHS secretary was out to dinner last night at a restaurant called the Capitol Burger, about a mile away from the White House. She was there with Secret Service. She was paying for dinner when security cameras caught a white man wearing an N95 mask, swiping her bag and leaving the restaurant. The thief got away with her driver's license, her prescriptions, keys to her apartment, blank checks, passport, and her DHS access pass, and of course, the $3,000 in cash.
"The New York Post" reports Noem's stolen bag was a Gucci bag that retails for as much as $4,400. One of the several pricey items that the secretary wears prominently, like the Rolex she wore on a tour of the supermax prison in El Salvador, where Trump is sending migrants to live in that secret prison. That watch was an 18-karat gold, according to "The Washington Post", which sells for about $50,000.
No word from the Secret Service as to how this brazen sort of theft could happen like this. When they were there a mile from the White House. So we're waiting on details, because that is obviously a little unsettling.
OUTFRONT next, the White House changing its tune tonight on why a Maryland father was deported to El Salvador as Democrats were barred from seeing him in prison today.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:55:12]
BURNETT: Tonight, mixed messages from the White House. Trump's press secretary claiming the Maryland father who was deported to El Salvador, was not deported by mistake.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We did not make a mistake. We have always maintained that this was an individual who needed to be deported from our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Of course, they have explicitly said it was an administrative error. It was a mistake as to why they deported him. Thats at least what the press secretary said about Kilmar Abrego Garcia deportation earlier this month.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEAVITT: It was a clerical error. It was an administrative error.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Clerical error, administrative error. Now they're saying there was no error. Well, it also comes as a group of Democratic lawmakers are in El Salvador right now trying to ramp up pressure for the release of Abrego Garcia to return for due process in the United States. CNN learning that as of now, the Democrats have been denied access to him. Of course, Senator Van Hollen was able to meet with him the other day.
OUTFRONT tonight, Simon Sandoval-Moshenberg, the attorney for Kilmar Abrego Garcia.
And, Simon, I appreciate talking to you again. And, you know, here we are now in this moment where the White House press secretary who had said there was an administrative error and a clerical error at the beginning, that's what they said always was the reason that he was deported. And that's why they weren't defying a court order by not turning it around. It was a mistake.
But now they say there was no mistake made in the deportation of your client. No mistake made. So, what do you take away from this?
SIMON SANDOVAL-MOSHENBERG, ATTORNEY FOR FATHER MISTAKENLY DEPORTED TO EL SALVADOR: Yeah. They've said all kinds of crazy stuff from the White House press room. But in court, in the actual filings, they've never backed down from the initial statement that this was a mistake.
And that statement was made not by the initial department of justice lawyer who was subsequently fired. It was made by an ICE district director in a sworn affidavit.
So, she can say whatever she wants from the -- from the press podium. But in court, they've admitted that this is a mistake under oath.
BURNETT: Right. And they haven't -- they haven't made any efforts to change that. I guess that's the important thing.
All right. So, the rhetoric -- the press rhetoric versus the legal reality is important to understand. Now they do say obviously they maintain from the beginning that your client is a violent gang member and shouldn't be in the United States.
They then also brought up the 2021 protective order that his wife put out against him. She ultimately did not pursue that, but there was a protective order.
My colleague Dana Bash asked Senator Van Hollen, right, who met with Abrego Garcia over the weekend. She asked him about whether he talked to Abrego Garcia about the allegations against him. Both, both gang and domestic abuse.
Here's how the exchange went.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA BASH, CNN HOST, STATE OF THE UNION: Can you say with absolute certainty that he is not, nor has he ever been, a member of the MS-13 gang? And did you ask him point blank?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): Well, Dana, what Donald Trump is trying to do here is change the subject.
BASH: Since you were the one person to have met with him, and since this is a thing, you say on social media. It's what we hear from Donald Trump and Republicans every day, all day long. You didn't ask him?
VAN HOLLEN: I didn't ask him that because I know what his answer is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: He also said at one point, you know, he's not defending the person. You know, he's defending the -- you know, he's not here to champion the person. He's here to champion the process and to champion rights. I'm just curious from your perspective, Simon, do you think it's a problem that Senator Van Hollen, who is right now the most prominent, you know, publicly elected official speaking out on his behalf, who went down there, who met with him that he is not able to directly answer these questions?
SANDOVAL-MOSHENBERG: I don't think it's a problem, because this is exactly why we need to bring him back and give him a fair trial. Kilmar Abrego Garcia had a two-day long trial in 2019. He won that trial. The immigration judge granted him protection.
And the government, the Trump administration at the time decided not to appeal that case. And that's why he was released from detention. That's why he was given a work permit, and that's why he's been allowed to, you know, live here and work here legally ever since.
If the Trump administration is so confident that they've got this guy dead to rights, bring him back, put him on trial. Thats what we do, right?
I mean, we do that all the time with Colombian drug lords and Colombian prisons, Mexican cartel leaders in Mexican prisons. If you think he's committing crimes against the United States, bring him back and put him on trial.
BURNETT: So when Trump posts and I quote him, we cannot give everyone a trial because to do so would take without exaggeration, 200 years. What's your response to that, Simon?
SANDOVAL-MOSEHNBERG: That's not how any of this works in these United States. Five out of the ten amendments in the Bill of Rights have to do with fair trials and the judicial system. And, you know, as soon as we start taking trials away from one immigrant, it's a very, very short walk to taking trials away from you and me.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Simon, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much. And I'm glad to speak with you again.
SANDOVAL-MOSHENBERG: Good to be back.
BURNETT: All right. So, we continue to follow that case here.
Thanks so much to all of you for joining us on this Monday. See you back here tomorrow night.
It's time now for "AC360" with Anderson Cooper.
