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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump Sends Envoy, A Real Estate Mogul, Alone To Three-Hour Putin Meeting; Chinese Embassy Speaks To OutFront Amid Trump Warning On Tariffs; Judge Arrested By Trump's FBI: I Will Defend Myself "Vigorously". Aired 7-8p ET
Aired April 25, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:31]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Going it alone. Trump's top Russia negotiator shows up in Moscow with only his girlfriend. Even as Putin is armed at the negotiating table with top professional aides. Why is the real estate mogul with no diplomatic experience Trump's top man and only man?
Plus, breaking news, the Chinese government speaking exclusively to OUTFRONT tonight with a crystal-clear message for President Trump.
And fighting back. A judge arrested by Trump's FBI accused of helping a man avoid ICE agents. Somebody knows that judge, has worked with her a long time, is my guest.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, Putin calling the shots. So today, Trump sent just his special envoy, Steve Witkoff, to sit down with the Russian president and his aides.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They just left the meeting. I haven't been briefed yet, but he had -- had a pretty good meeting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So, you can see Putin there with the open arms, that's when he was greeting Witkoff as he walked into the room. And that was right after Witkoff and his girlfriend were taken around Moscow to see the sights.
And who was touring them? Kirill Dmitriev, Russia's special representative for investment and economic cooperation, and his wife. So cozy and familial and friendly. But this was about war and peace. And inside the Putin meeting, Witkoff arrived alone and met an interpreter there for the first time. On the other side of the table, Putin sat with two of his top
advisers. Now, of course, Putin, career KGB officer, ruler of Russia with two top advisors going up against a solo real estate lawyer with zero diplomatic experience.
Putin's former deputy minister of energy, who will join me in just a moment, believes this is exactly what Putin wanted, or perhaps explicitly demanded a three-on-one with Trump's donor and friend as the one. It's worth being very clear about this. This is not how diplomacy at really any stakes, and certainly not at stakes such as these works.
I mean, just take a look at these images on the left -- these are the talks with Ukraine last week. You see, secretary of state rubio Witkoff, several aides, a table full of people with -- with experts, with people who know things. If you contrast that to the right, today's meeting, Putin and his aides on one side and on the other, Witkoff alone with a translator that he had just met.
Putin knows this is not normal. This is not how it is done. Just look at how many people are present when Putin has been involved in previous bilateral talks.
Look at those tables. I mean, you have to get the giant table out that he had during COVID to fit the number of people that go in these cases. But in this extremely unusual case, which happens to involve something of such high stakes as the largest land war in Europe since World War II, it's Putin and his team, and then Steve Witkoff, who has proven to be remarkably open to everything Putin has said to him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE WITKOFF, U.S. ENVOY: I just don't see that he wants to take all of Europe. It's just never -- as black and white as people want to portray.
We have moved Russia in ways that no one thought was possible. I don't regard Putin as a bad guy.
TUCKER CARLSON, TV HOST: What did you think of him?
WITKOFF: I liked him. I thought he was straight up with me.
When the president was shot, he went to his local church and met with his priest and prayed for the president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And even with such compliments and repetition of Putin's worldview, the war hasn't ended yet. I mean, "Time Magazine" just did that interview with Trump, and in it they asked about this.
The question was, you said you would end the war in Ukraine on day one. Trump's response to time was, well, I said that figuratively, and I said that as an exaggeration because to make a point, obviously people know that. When I said that, it was said in jest, except for this, and it's sometimes worth just going back and looking what he really said. It was one of the cornerstones of his campaigns. He was not talking in jest.
And here are just some of the times he said it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It'll be done within 24 hours. You watch.
I will have that war settled in one day, 24 hours.
It will take me no longer than one day.
I would get a settlement in 24 hours. I'll get that war settled before I even become president. I will get it settled while I'm president- elect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: That's just a small sample. I mean, there were several there, right? But he said he'd end the war within hours or before taking the office. A grand total of 53 times.
[19:05:01]
Let me just say that again 53 times.
Well, of course, it's now been a lot more than 24 hours. It's been 4,000 hours more than that since Trump was elected. The war is still raging, and the terms that Trump's envoy Witkoff, aided by a translator he was introduced to as he walked into the room, he's championing in interviews.
And at this point, those points are making Russian state television anchors delirious. Even they say, quote, who could have imagined this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who could have imagined this?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No one ever. They can't believe it even now, if you're talking about Donald Trump, it's shocking. It really is. Completely incredible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Talking about Donald Trump, no one could have imagined we would live to see the day when the correct answer about whom Crimea belongs to would come from the president of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: No one could have imagined we would live to see the day when the correct answer about to whom Crimea belongs to would come from the president of the United States. It is an incredible thing to think about. And tonight, one influential Republican is not buying Trump or Putin's spin. Senator Chuck Grassley, writing today, and I quote him, President
Trump, please put the toughest of sanctions on Putin. You ought to see from clear evidence that he is playing America as a patsy.
And as these high-stakes meetings are taking place, as Witkoff and Putin met today, an explosion rocked a town just outside the city. A car bomb killing a senior Russian military officer. Kremlin blaming Ukraine. So far, no formal responsibility being taken from that quarter.
Fred Pleitgen is OUTFRONT in Red Square by the Kremlin in Moscow tonight where this meeting happened.
And, Fred, what else are you learning about it?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, there was that walk that Steve Witkoff took with Kirill Dmitriev that you were talking about before. That was actually on the Arbat Street, which is quite a touristy area, shopping street. But one of the things that we have to keep in mind is that afterwards, in the kremlin, Steve Witkoff got a very warm welcome from Vladimir Putin. He actually spoke to him in English.
But Kirill Dmitriev, of course, who is the head of the Russian direct investment fund, was then sitting on the other side of the table on Putin's side of the table. And as you correctly stated, it was Steve Witkoff who was essentially alone on his side. And then the Russians, with some of the really top negotiators who have been doing this for decades, in many cases on the other side.
Now, the Russians came out afterwards, and they said that the atmosphere was constructive and was very positive. And there's two things that they say stood out or were important for them. They say that in the future they believe that there could be direct talks between the Russians and the Ukrainians. But it also seems as though there still is a pretty long way to go until that could actually happen.
But the other thing that is more important, probably even for the Russians, is they say that things were forwarded to get U.S. Russian relations back on track, because for the Russians, this is something they state again and again solving the Ukraine conflict is one thing for them. But getting us Russian relations back on track is really the main thing. And sanctions relief is the other thing.
The Russians are saying that there is progress, that they believe they see progress, but they also say that there are still a lot of difficult issues that still need to be sorted out. So how much progress was actually made today? Really difficult to see. But I think there's one thing that was really important that stood out to us, that the Kremlin spokesman actually said.
He said that to the Russians, these kind of meetings are less about palpable progress than about them sending messages to Donald Trump via Steve Witkoff. So we're going to have to wait and see what the Trump administration says they believe came out of this meeting -- Erin. BURNETT: Fred, thank you very much. In Moscow tonight, as we said in
Red Square, outside of those Kremlin walls.
OUTFRONT now, Vladimir Milov. He is a former deputy minister of energy in Russia. He served under Vladimir Putin before resigning.
And, Vladimir, I'm glad to have the opportunity to speak to you again because last time we spoke, you said that Steve Witkoff was, in your words, truly a gift for Putin. And the images today are simply so stark. Putin comes to this meeting flanked by aides that Fred Pleitgen just described between them decades of experience negotiating international deals decades.
And then on the other side, Witkoff alone. Obviously, he is a real estate lawyer with no diplomatic experience. A woman who may have been his translator, is the only person who was there.
You say this is likely all by design by Putin. What do you mean?
VLADIMIR MILOV, RUSSIAN OPPOSITION LEADER: Good evening. Great to be back on your show.
It's a very unusual situation. I mean, let's be clear. This is one of the most tense and difficult situations in international politics and security. Basically, since the end of the cold war. And usually, we know a lot about how negotiations on such sensitive things are happening. Usually, you have a lot of professionals, experienced people in the room who are representing, you know, different agencies, departments.
We now know from declassified documents from the Cold War era, and beyond that, there is often an argument between people on the same side, be it United States or then Soviet Union.
[19:10:04]
They had different opinions. Given all their experience. They had to argue between themselves and so on. Now you have just one man alone who not only has zero experience in complicated international and diplomatic affairs, but as we can see from his public remarks and interviews, he's easily falling prey to Putin's, you know, flattery, manipulation and so on. He's repeating Russian propaganda, talking points, which are ridiculous to everyone who is even slightly familiar with the issue like this thing about, you know, people in Eastern Ukraine speaking Russian or referendum being held and so on.
So -- so this is, I mean, if you just recall, United States war of independence, which took place in the late 18th century. Everybody also spoke English. And basically, British had no idea that they might stage a referendum, you know.
So, this is -- this is obviously ridiculous. And this was only a Russian talking point. Nobody else bought it in the previous years. But Witkoff easily fell prey to all this Putin's propaganda points.
So, I think to me it's very clear because normally the U.S. president would send several people into the room to talk to Putin. Why did he choose -- he chose to send one man alone, most likely because this was Putin's specific demand.
And we knew this because several sources commented that Putin was kind of picky on this. He said, I don't want Mr. Kellogg to take part. I don't want this guy, don't want that guy. So, we can just simply guess that here's the one guy that Putin have chosen that said, this works for me. I can talk to him.
BURNETT: And he goes on a -- on a -- on a tour on a very popular tourist shopping street in Moscow with his girlfriend and Kirill Dmitriev and his wife. You know, we're talking war and peace. That's -- that's something you would expect, maybe, I don't know, in Paris or London, but that's what we get here.
I mean, I'm curious your take, Vladimir, and what we see in Russian state television. The anchor saying no one would have imagined we would live to see the day when the correct answer about to whom Crimea belongs would come from the president of the United States.
It is just a moment that for some reason, it is so stunning that this is the reality.
MILOV: It is stunning, in fact. And Putin has been saying all along, I mean, just don't discount that this is a hugely boosting moment for Putin's domestic agenda, because for 11 years since Russia occupied Crimea, he's been repeatedly saying to the Russians, just wait out. There will be a moment when a major western leader would say, yeah, I think Crimea is Russian.
So, now, 11 years on, this moment came associated with Donald Trump. So obviously this is a huge boost for Putin and his propaganda. He can now say, listen, we need to wait just a bit longer and they will have new leaders in Germany, France, in Brussels, wherever. So, at the end of the day, with all the difficulties and suffering, but Crimea will be ours.
This is what Putin is going to get for his propaganda purposes from this Trump's remarks.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Vladimir, I appreciate your time very much. And thank you so much. I know it's late where you are, so thank you.
MILOV: Thank you. It was a pleasure.
BURNETT: All right. You, too. Vladimir Milov. As I said, former deputy energy minister for Putin.
And next, an OUTFRONT exclusive. The Chinese government revealing to OUTFRONT what it will take for Beijing to talk to Trump. And they have a direct message to President Trump tonight.
Plus, protests across multiple cities after a federal judge was arrested by the FBI, accused of helping a man evade ICE in her very courtroom.
Well, tonight she's firing back. We have a new development there.
And Trump now says he is not joking about seeking a third term. You'll hear what he just said.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:18:27]
BURNETT: Breaking news, the Chinese government speaking directly to OUTFRONT today after Trump issued this warning to China today about his tariff war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm not going to drop 'em unless they give us something that's, you know, substantial. Otherwise I'm not going to drop 'em.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right. The spokesman for the Chinese embassy had a long conversation with OUTFRONT today and said, quote, since the U.S. initiated these unilateral tariffs, if it sincerely wishes to resolve the issues, it must completely abolish all unilateral tariffs on China. All unilateral tariffs. That's not just coming down half or three, that's all.
He then went on to say, and I quote again, China and the U.S. are not having any consultation or negotiation on tariffs. The U.S. should stop creating confusion.
Dan Ives and Peter Tuchman are here.
And, Dan, look, the embassy spokesman there, you know, very clear there, said no consultations or negotiations are going on right now. Now, Trump obviously is very directly said otherwise. So, what is all of this doing?
DAN IVES, GLOBAL HEAD OF TECHNOLOGY RESEARCH, WEDBUSH SECURITIES: Well, it's (INAUDIBLE) outcome, it's creating mass confusion in the market because at the end of the day, everyone wants to understand when deals actually get done and when real talks are getting done. And we've talked about it, is that time is ticking. You have, what, two and a half weeks in terms of when we're actually going to see the surges.
BURNETT: Yeah, by your math, we're -- right. Yeah. We're getting close to two.
IVES: They're about two and a half weeks until the shortages, until the price increases. And it comes down to like talk -- talk's cheap.
[19:20:01]
The market at this point and Peter will talk about markets up because you're anticipating now, backs against wall. You got to get deals done. BURNETT: Uh-huh.
IVES: But time is ticking. You got to get deals done, I believe starting this weekend.
BURNETT: So, Peter, the "Time Magazine" interview, you know, Trump gave the impression he had talked to Xi. I mean, you know, it was very clear he wanted everyone to think he had talked to X about the tariffs.
But the way he said it was, "Time" said, will you call President Xi if he doesn't call you? Trump, no. "Time", you won't? Trump, no.
"Time", has he called you yet? Yep. When did he call you? He's called. And I don't think that's a sign of weakness on his behalf.
Okay. He's called. And then pressed by CNN on when, you know, did you talk to him since the tariffs? Did you talk to him two years ago. When did you talk to him? Trump said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I don't want to comment on that, but I've spoken to him many times.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Okay. So that that, that, that was clearly not talking to him about the tariffs right now. So, you know, what are the impact of these games.
PETER TUCHMAN, TRADER AT THE NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE: You know, it's baffling to me. I've been trying to be the -- you know, the more -- that cup half full person in the room for the last bunch of days with -- with you guys. And it's getting to the point where it doesn't really make any sense. I mean, it's -- even though the market is up four days in a row --
BURNETT: Yeah.
TUCHMAN: And that that could be just smart investors knowing that some deal has to be on the table and has to be made because the alternative is really dark, right? It's what Dan calls, you know, this is its supply chain Armageddon, right? And so that's not really an alternative that we can handle.
But it just doesn't make sense. Why? I don't understand the game that they're playing. It makes absolutely no sense. If they were talking -- they would say they were talking. That would show some kind of positivity.
One of them or both would. I mean, what -- what a great thing that would be if the two of them actually, you know, said, we are talking in this. Why are -- why are we playing that game where, you know, look, it's not going to affect me on a day to day basis.
BURNETT: I mean, it's serious.
TUCHMAN : There are people's lives who are being impacted hugely.
BURNETT: Yes.
TUCHMAN: Right? Maybe not us, but there are millions of people, people who voted for Mr. Trump right across the country who literally may have wanted to retire at the end of this year, who, you know, who are living paycheck to paycheck, who may have had a small 401(k) or something, you know --
IVES: Or 201(k).
TUCHMAN: Or -- which is now a 201(k), I don't get that. It's disrespectful at best.
IVES: I think to his point, I think that the big issue here is that who do you believe in terms like, okay, who do you believe? So, now, something comes out two hours later and then there's another message. Market, at this point, they're giving benefit of the doubt. That's why stocks are up this week.
But going into next week, you need deals.
BURNETT: Yeah. And, of course, as you point out, I mean , you don't want to be in a position where you're saying, well, nobody trusts China so we can be as untrustworthy as China on our word of what we say is happening. It's not the U.S. way.
IVES: And then you're playing poker with yourself, too.
BURNETT: Right. And that's what he's done so far.
Okay, I want on the whiteboard. This is something you pointed out. Okay. It's something called blank shipping, right? All right. Blank shipping.
So, I'm just going to draw a container ship. Blank sailing. Sorry. Blank sailing. Blank sailing I'm not going to put a sail on it because it's a big cargo ship.
But you got a big cargo ship here, okay? Usually, it's full of cargo on the top. Beginning of the year, these ships leaving Asia, zero percent of them were skipping ports. They were going to every port. They were picking up what they had, containers were full.
TUCHMAN: A hundred percent.
BURNETT: Okay, now, 40 percent. These are the numbers you're pointing to, Dan. As many -- as much as 40 percent of these ships. Guess what? Okay.
TUCHMAN: Bypassing ports.
BURNETT: Bypassing ports.
TUCHMAN: So, they're down 40 percent.
BURNETT: And ships have to go when they have to go. You can't just sit around and wait. So they're going with just -- just a few containers on them. These -- these half empty who knows what from 0 percent to 40.
IVES: And just think about what it's going to look like over the next week. Two, three weeks, four weeks. And that's ultimately -- that's why deals need to get done because this is what business leaders from -- from e-commerce, you know, across every industry are basically saying like, time is ticking and guess what's going to happen?
Shortages, massive price increases. And that's where look, we just talked about for the U.S. consumer hasn't seen it yet.
BURNETT: No.
IVES: It's come. Remember, it goes back like it's like being on a beach, and all of a sudden, like you're in the ocean, there's no water. You're like, oh, this is -- this is crazy.
BURNETT: I'm going to run out and check.
IVES: You're going to run out. You're like, no, it's because the tsunami is coming. So, the point is that the reality is, is that he needs to get deals done.
BURNETT: But -- because this is this question, Peter, that I'm trying to understand, you -- with China, a deal doesn't just happen with the snap and a finger and a go. I mean, there would be nothing to indicate that that's how it's going to happen.
But we're in a situation where if you look at the ships and you look at what's happening, right, that can be a blip. Only if you have an immediate sudden change afterwards.
TUCHMAN: Logistics of I'm working with a guy named Andrew Sobko who's a -- who runs a company called BATCH. We've talked about how A.I. is coming into the logistics space around trucking in the United States, and how complicated that is, and how important it is that every little check -- I mean, the trucks have to be full.
[19:25:04]
They have to be on time. All of that works.
Think about it. When you're only going at 40 percent inventory, that's going to start. So the ship lines are going to be losing money. Everybody is going to start losing.
IVES: You don't get your inventory then I don't get mine. They don't get theirs.
TUCHMAN: Then if it opens up, back up. Those are all late.
IVES: And then -- and then you even talk about you're talking about even like Christmas thing. Like the point is the supply. Thats what we're dealing with.
BURNETT: And the retailers are small businesses. And we talk about the stuffed animal company. They're saying they put in their order for 80 percent of their sales. Christmas by the end of May.
IVES: Correct.
BIURNETT: So that -- and that's --
TUCHMAN: That's normal. That is the lead time for this thing. And that's the lead time that's going to start affecting when it starts affecting food and all kinds of other you know look you saw that with Target and Walmart actually the CEOs of a lot of the retailers went to the White House apparently to talk and say this is real for us.
IVES: And how do you price it? Because you don't know what you're pricing. That's and you've talked about.
BURNETT: That huge uncertainty. Well, here we are another weekend. And again, the market hoping right because the market --
IVES: Sunday night.
BURNETT: Got to be a deal because the alternative is so horrific it can't contemplate.
TUCHMAN: And that -- look, the market felt strong. You know, it was -- there was -- the advances versus declines were good. The buy side felt like it was buying with intent.
So, there are buyers in the wings, right? And somebody -- there must be smart money thinking that a deal has to be made because the alternative is really ugly.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you both.
And next, the breaking news. A judge taking on the Trump administration tonight after she was arrested by the FBI. So, who is she and what is she accused of? Someone who knows her well is next.
Plus, would Trump run as J.D. Vance as vice president as a way to get back in the White House? What a question. Well, we're asking it because guess what? He just talked about it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:30:54]
BURNETT: Breaking news, a judge fighting back tonight after the FBI arrested her for allegedly helping a man evade ICE agents. Judge Hannah Dugan's attorney speaking out within minutes of her release, saying in part, Judge Hannah C. Dugan has committed herself to the rule of law and the principles of due process for her entire career as a lawyer and a judge. Judge Dugan will defend herself vigorously and looks forward to being exonerated. Now, at this moment, multiple cities, including Milwaukee, have seen
protests over her arrest, which does mark an escalation in the Trump administration's battle against judges.
Now, the arrest was first announced by the FBI director, Kash Patel, in a deleted but then reposted tweet, which said in part, we believe Judge Dugan intentionally misdirected federal agents away from the subject to be arrested in her courthouse. Thankfully, our agents chased down the perp on foot, and he's been in custody since. But the judge's obstruction created increased danger to the public.
Let's begin our coverage with Whitney Wild. She's OUTFRONT there in Milwaukee.
So, you know, Whitney, trying to understand what happened here. Right in a moment where you have a judge arrested by the FBI, which is a stunning thing. Just on the face of it. What do you know about what led to Judge Dugan's arrest?
WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: According to the unsealed court documents today, Erin, this all started April 18th, when a man named Eduardo Flores -Ruiz was supposed to appear in front of Judge Dugan on battery charges. It was a domestic abuse case.
And when Judge Dugan learned that there were multiple federal agents who were there to arrest him on an administrative warrant, she became very upset. And in fact, at one point she pulled some of these agents aside. She arranged for a call with the chief judge, where the chief judge insisted to these federal agents that they must only arrest him in the public area of the court. And that's important because of what the FBI says happened next.
According to the FBI affidavit, Judge Dugan returned to the courtroom, and at one point, Flores-Ruiz and his attorney were moving toward the door that led out of the courtroom. That would have led to a public area of the courthouse. But instead, and this is a quote from the complaint, the courtroom deputy then saw Judge Dugan get up and heard Judge Dugan say something like, wait, come with me. Despite having been advised of the administrative warrant for the arrest of Flores- Ruiz, Judge Dugan then escorted Flores-Ruiz and his counsel out of the courtroom through the jury door, which leads to a nonpublic area of the courthouse.
And so, the FBI is saying that this was a blatant obstruction of justice. It made it nearly, you know, nearly impossible, at least very difficult for federal agents to find Flores-Ruiz, because then what happened, Erin, was then they were scrambling to try to bring him into custody.
At one point, they -- they saw him. They announced themselves as federal agents, and he ran. And that initiated a foot chase. They were eventually able to bring him into custody. But it was that moment where the FBI again, saying this is a blatant obstruction of justice.
And as you point out, this is an escalation, but it is not altogether surprising because DOJ has made very clear from the outset that they will not tolerate anyone who they perceive is standing in their way on these immigration laws, even if that means arresting state and local officials -- Erin.
BURNETT: So, Whitney, what do you know about the immigrant Eduardo Flores-Ruiz that that Judge Dugan is accused of helping here? I mean, you say he was there in a domestic battery case. It was not related to his immigration status?
WILD: That's right. But what they say is, is the key detail here is that he had actually been deported before he was deported on January 16th, 2023. They say he entered the U.S. illegally a second time. And so, these are the key details that they're working with as they look at why this administrative warrant is justified to begin with -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Whitney, thank you very much, in Milwaukee, all those details so crucial to understand exactly what happened and whether it should have.
Ryan Clancy is OUTFRONT now, Democratic member of the Wisconsin state assembly. He worked with Judge Dugan personally from 2020 to '24, when he was on the Milwaukee County Board of Supervisors.
So, Ryan, I appreciate your time.
Since you know Judge Dugan, it's such important context to understand what happened here. Are you surprised that the Trump administration was there.
[19:35:01]
That they had ICE agents there for this in this particular, very obviously specific case of one person there and ready to arrest her?
RYAN CLANCY (D), WISCONSIN STATE REP.; WORKED WITH JUDGE ARRESTED BY FBI: Absolutely. I mean, the -- those agents should not have been in the courthouse to begin with to serve what was an administrative warrant. And I want to be really clear here. We're talking about an administrative warrant. We're talking about something that ICE puts together internally. It's like me walking around with a note in my pocket saying, Representative Clancy can do whatever he wants. I do have one of those, but it doesn't mean anything, right?
They did not present an actual warrant signed by an actual judge. So, Judge Dugan was in her right in doing what she did. She didn't obstruct justice. She obstructed fascism in this case.
BURNETT: Because -- because you're saying obstructing justice would be if this had been a court order signed by a judge, which it was not. So, you know, as you know.
CLANCY: Yeah. Right. Even in that case, it does not make sense. We should not have ICE agents in a protected space like a courtroom, any more than you'd want ICE agents going into an operating room or a classroom. Those have historically been protected spaces that are off limits to ICE. And with good reason. You want people feeling safe and secure in a courthouse, either to
come to their own trials or to testify against others. And this is really just an attack on the judicial system, which is historically a check and balance on unobstructed executive power. That's what we're seeing from the Trump administration.
BURNETT: Now, you worked with Judge Dugan, as I mentioned, for four years is her behavior as -- as it's reported. And, you know, Whitney was laying it out. What we know in helping this immigrant, consistent with the judge and the person that, you know.
CLANCY: Absolutely. She is a prominent respected member of the Milwaukee legal community. She is not part of any radical community. And I should know because I am. She's been a respected judge and a lawyer for many years without apparent controversy. Targeting her makes no sense, and I think it really is designed to have a chilling effect on state and local officials, and on anybody who would push back on the Trump regime.
BURNETT: So she was released on bond after her initial appearance today. You know, you heard, you know, her legal representative saying they're going to -- they're going to fight vigorously. They believe she'll be exonerated.
But do you think from knowing her, you know, when you talk about the chilling effect of this or what the impact will be, you know, is she willing to -- how far is she willing to go? I mean, if it means serving time in jail, if it if it ever gets to that sort of thing, is that something you think she'd be willing to do?
CLANCY: I mean, I'm not going to speculate as to whether or not she's willing to serve time in jail. It is absolutely ludicrous that these charges were brought to begin with. Somebody had just asked me this morning, you know, what can we do to support Judge Dugan? And I said, well, obviously, you know, there aren't going to be charges brought because she hasn't done anything wrong.
And, you know, several hours later she was in handcuffs. So, this is not something that anybody anticipated. I think you know, nobody is trying to be a hero here, but Judge Dugan is doing what all of us will be called to do in the days and weeks and months to come. And it's standing up for people in our community that are being targeted by the Trump regime.
BURNETT: All right, Ryan, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much.
CLANCY: Thanks for covering this, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Now, Attorney General Pam Bondi has come out tonight and called Judge Dugan, quote/unquote, deranged, promising prosecution for any judge who crosses the Trump administration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAM BONDI, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: I think some of these judges think they are beyond and above the law, and they are not. And we're sending a very strong message today. If you are harboring a fugitive, we don't care who you are. If you are helping hide one, if you are giving a TDA member guns, anyone who is illegally in this country, we will come after you and we will prosecute you. We will find you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right. Ryan Goodman is with me now.
So, Ryan, when you hear Attorney General Bondi say that, what does it translate to you?
RYAN GOODMAN, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL AT DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE: So, it's extraordinary for an attorney general to be speaking about an ongoing criminal investigation at all. And prosecution like that, and the idea that she would be smearing or disparaging the defendant in a case is extraordinary. Imagine if AG Garland had gone on a left-wing media outlet to start disparaging some defendant in a criminal case. We'd just be flabbergasted by that.
So, to me, it's flabbergasting, and it maybe feeds into this idea that what's really going on in this case is not about bringing criminal charges that will stick, but rather about creating a public message.
BURNETT: Were you shocked to see a judge arrested even in the circumstances? Obviously, the -- right on the nose of immigration, right on the nose of what the administration has been saying? Were you still shocked by it?
GOODMAN: A hundred percent. It's just a shocking move within our country to see something like that.
BURNETT: So, in the facts of the case such that we know it. Okay. There were multiple witnesses, a prosecutor and Dugan's courtroom deputy did -- did say they saw. Dugan tell the press release and his lawyer to use a jury door to get to a nonpublic area.
[19:40:00]
So, it appears, you know, can't say for sure, but it appears that that that's -- that's just -- take that as a fact pattern if that occurred. Is that legal and proper for her to have done that, if they, you know, if otherwise they would have gone out a door to a public area and been easily apprehended?
GOODMAN: So, when I first heard those facts, I thought, okay, maybe she's in trouble. But then I read the affidavit and I'm just going based simply on the affidavit.
BURNETT: Which is what they're alleging.
GOODMAN: Exactly.
BURNETT: Yeah. And so, a big distinction is, were they trying to arrest him in her courtroom or in the courthouse? And they seem to agree they should not be in the courtroom. Well, the affidavit itself says at a certain point, the court deputy tells the FBI, two federal agents, you need to leave the courtroom, and they agree to do that. So, where in the affidavit did they ever enter the courtroom? They shouldn't have been there.
So, the entire thing is tainted at a certain point because they're inside her courtroom. They're not supposed to be there to perfect this enforcement operation. So that's one piece of it.
Then, the second is the affidavit itself says, what happens to the man after he goes through the jury door?
BURNETT: Yes.
GOODMAN : Where does he end up? According to the affidavit, he ends up in a public hallway where he is. How do we know this? Because two DEA agents observe him there.
BURNETT: Right.
GOODMAN: And then where does he go? Down an elevator. Who is in the elevator with him? One of the agents. It's just so --
BURNETT: And then finally gets to the street. He tries to run, but at that point, we've been in public space the whole time.
GOODMAN: In public space and in the elevator with the with the federal agent. And this is the person that they're going to charge. It just doesn't seem like a case that's going to hold up that you would charge somebody for having that be the effect of it. It doesn't seem like concealment. It actually seems like he was they were able to pick him up.
BURNETT: Well, the outcome of the case, of course, crucial for everyone as we watch it go through now.
Thank you very much, Ryan.
And OUTFRONT next, Trump playing coy about running for a third term. You'll hear what he just said about how he would do it.
Plus, we take you to the late pope's hometown, where people are now following in his footsteps to help those in need.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:46:28]
BURNETT: Tonight, President Trump playing coy about a possible third term, telling time magazine quote, I'd rather not discuss that now, but as you know, there are some loopholes that have been discussed that are well known. But I don't believe in loopholes. When asked if he would run as J.D. Vance's vice president, Trump answered, quote, I don't know anything about what -- look, all I can say is this, I'm being inundated with requests. I'm doing a good job, great physical exam, and unlike every other president, I took the cognitive test and I aced it 100 percent. And I bet you guys couldn't get 100 percent on that exam. It's a tough exam. It also comes as Trump makes extensive comments to time magazine about
the war in Ukraine, claiming Putin would never have invaded it if he were president. And as our will Ripley reports, that battle is not only raging on right now, but Putin is now using mercenaries for more and more places, including right now, China.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the brutal war between Russia and Ukraine, Chinese nationals are joining the fight and not always on the same side.
"JASON", FORMER CHINESE FIGHTER IN UKRAINE: Scariest part? I think it's still just sitting in a foxhole and get shot at.
RIPLEY: And you saw that and experienced that.
"JASON": Yeah.
RIPLEY: Jason is a Chinese citizen living in the U.S. He fought for Ukraine because he believed they needed help. We agreed not to reveal his last name, occupation or location because what he's telling us could put him in danger.
"JASON": Friend got killed. Friend got injured.
RIPLEY: It's hard. Do you -- do you regret going there?
"JASON": No.
RIPLEY: You still would have gone there knowing this.
"JASON": Yeah. I mean, I still have friends over there. It's rough.
RIPLEY: Jason deployed near Bakhmut. He says he saw American friends injured and killed. He didn't give much thought as to who he was firing at, but says he knew some of them, like him, could be from China.
"JASON": A lot of my friends posting and stuff like Chinese mercenaries went to Russia and joined their side and posting stuff on TikTok.
RIPLEY: Would it have changed anything for you if you knew that there were Chinese mercenaries on the Russian side, that you that you were fighting?
"JASON": No, I don't think it will change anything. I mean, they are they are invaders.
RIPLEY: Ukrainian intelligence claims at least 155 Chinese nationals are fighting for Russia. Ukraine captured two of them in Donetsk and is now proposing a POW swap with Russia. Beijing says it's verifying the situation.
Russian propaganda videos like these are flooding Chinese social media. Many subtitled in mandarin glorifying military service. Some ads even list the pay around $2,500 a month. This Chinese fighter from Sichuan province says he flew to Moscow on a tourist visa and enlisted, posting these videos on Chinese platforms. A personal war diary from inside the Russian army. He even shows himself making Chinese instant noodles in uniform.
CNN spoke with another Chinese soldier currently fighting for Russia and injured in combat. He says he joined Russia's army seeking real battlefield experience, but now he regrets it. We agreed not to show his face or air his voice.
I feel the world's number two military is a joke. You know, I think the Russian army's individual combat capability is indeed stronger than the Chinese People's Liberation Army. I don't deny that, he says, but their equipment is too poor, the logistics are too poor, and the corruption is very serious.
[19:50:01]
Beijing says it has no involvement in the war. A spokesperson for China's foreign ministry called the claims groundless. Washington accuses China of supporting Russia's war effort. Jason thinks state propaganda may be to blame.
"JASON": I think most of the Chinese people are being brainwashed for a long time. They just believe what the government is telling them. And maybe in the future we can use the skill we learned from this war and. They think they are going to invade Taiwan or somewhere.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RIPLEY (on camera): Look, Beijing is certainly learning a lot from the Ukraine war. They're studying closely any lessons that could potentially be used here in Taiwan, experts say.
But we know that foreign fighters have been involved on both sides of this war since the start, Erin. Ukraine holds POWs from places like Sri Lanka, Nepal, Africa, Syria, former Soviet states and of course, those North Koreans that were captured earlier this year, part of Pyongyang's estimated 14,000 troops who are aiding Russia and learning about modern combat as we speak.
BURNETT: It's just an absolutely incredible report. Just so many -- every one of those characters.
Will, thank you very much.
And next, we have a special report, this from the late pope's hometown, where people are going to incredible lengths to carry on Pope Francis's legacy tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:55:58]
BURNETT: President Trump has just landed in Rome ahead of Pope Francis's funeral tomorrow. Joe Biden will also be there. It is the first time that the two will have been together since Trump's inauguration. And it comes as our David Culver goes back to trace the pope's roots in Argentina, where so many Catholics are now trying to follow in his footsteps.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Not even two minutes into our conversation and Father Lorenzo de Abadia (ph), known here as Padre Toto, needs the mic off him. He's got to go.
As a Catholic priest working in one of Argentina's villas, or simple, humble neighborhoods, Padre Toto's work does not stop as he pedals away.
So, he said he's going 25 blocks on his bike.
We try to keep up.
Is that me? No, that's not him.
He's heading here.
You can see a lot of these people are now just getting off the bus, as they've come in from places outside of Buenos Aires.
A gathering of the working class.
She's explaining to me what the cartoneros are. And she said its individuals who, on their own, will basically collect things that are to be recycled, and then they'll sell them to make a living.
They're here combining a planned protest for higher pay and better benefits with a warm tribute to Pope Francis.
And she said Pope Francis would look around as she believes and would see this crowd and see it as his people, the humble, which explains why Padre Toto is here.
He's clearly well known here.
And too busy still for a chat, suggesting we try tomorrow.
So, we do.
How many years have you been here?
Twenty-five years.
There's a lot of prevention work they do too. He points out, as a priest of the villa, he says, you're not just in charge of a parish which is his back there, but you're part of the community and you minister to the people here actively, which we witness ourselves.
Her son passed away.
Loss is shared here.
She says her son had his feet washed by -- by then, Cardinal Bergoglio.
A few years later. Steps from where we sit, Luisa Rodriguez says her son was gunned down and killed. She says Cardinal Bergoglio was always here for them. And now, with his passing, it's like we're left with no one in the world. He was so valuable to us, she says.
It's in part by Padre Toto who feels this is no time for him to sit still. Even if he too is hurting.
He says you have to continue on with the pope's legacy. He says in this moment, you feel a lot of sadness for the loss, but the same time, peace.
He's got to go. Okay.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CULVER (on camera): Padre Toto, Erin, needing that mic to come off again because just in a few hours from now, he's going to be coming here to the plaza de mayo and they're preparing.
You can see -- they've got security behind me. Several large screens are up there testing the music. They're going to hopefully try to live stream the funeral mass, and then they're going to have another mass at the funeral, followed by a pilgrimage to the sites that Pope Francis visited when he was cardinal here.
And then his beloved San Lorenzo soccer team will be playing an entire day to celebrate one of their own who became the worlds.
BURNETT: You hear those bells tolling? Of course. 9:00, where you are in Buenos Aires.
David, thank you so very much. And such poignant reports through this week, from that special place to the pope.
Please join us here on CNN for special live coverage of his funeral, starting at 3:00 a.m. Eastern.
It's time now for Anderson.
