Return to Transcripts main page
Erin Burnett Outfront
Top Economist Predicts 90 Percent Chance Of A Recession, Lays Out Timeline; Trump Nominee Repeatedly Praised Alleged Nazi Sympathizer; RFK Jr.'s Sister Fights Back. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired April 28, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:28]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Flashing warning signs. One top economist tonight predicting a 90 percent chance of recession as Trump's trade war rages on. Is his technique less art of the deal and more George Costanza? Einstein, Ives, the white border coming up.
Plus, our KFILE uncovering audio of one of Trump's top nominees praising an alleged Nazi sympathizer. He claims he didn't know better, but KFILE has the tape to show he did.
And RFK Jr.'s sister, Kerry Kennedy, is our guest, OUTFRONT live from El Salvador, where she's been blocked from visiting migrants deported by Trump. But she is not backing down tonight.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, a 90 percent chance of a recession. That is the prediction tonight from a top economist. Torsten Slok painting a dire picture of Trump's trade war and the implications, saying its pushing the U.S. economy to the brink of full-blown crisis. He writes that in just weeks, quote, the consequence will be empty shelves in U.S. stores in a few weeks and COVID-like shortages for consumers and for firms using Chinese products as intermediate goods.
And the administration tonight, not giving much of a reassurance when pressed on this prediction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
INTERVIEWER: Are you worried about empty shelves?
SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: Not at present. We have some great retailers. I assume they preordered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I assume they preordered. What about the millions and millions of small businesses that couldn't even preorder? Never mind everyone else supposed to be in that, you know the ball, the crystal ball.
Those great retailers were all just at the White House. Some of the biggest ones. CEOs of Walmart, Target and Home Depot, they warned Trump in that meeting that his tariffs could lead to product shortages and more.
Barclays tonight is echoing the warnings in a memo to investors, writing we expect a sharp slowdown and a likely U.S. recession in the coming quarters. All of it comes as tonight we're learning Jamie Dimon, the CEO of JPMorgan Chase, reportedly told investors just days ago, according to "The Wall Street Journal", that a best case scenario is a mild recession.
It's a daily drumbeat of warnings now coming from people who know a lot about the economy, and it has Americans worried. Our latest poll out this afternoon, finding a majority of Americans, 59 percent say Trump's policies have made economic conditions in the U.S. worse, which could explain why the administration is tonight doing all it can to not talk about the economy.
Moments ago, Trump signing executive orders, this time regarding truck drivers and what language they speak, saying they have to speak English. Just look at the North Lawn of the White House fitting that theme. It's covered in photos of people the administration say are illegal immigrants. That's what they want to talk about. That's the discussion they want to have.
They certainly do not want to talk about the economy over the past 100 days, the Dow has sank nearly 4,000 points, trillions of dollars gone for now. According to CNBC, the S&P drop over the first 100 days of President Trump's presidency is on track to be the worst 100-day performance in the stock market since Nixon, and that's clearly not something that you'd want to talk about if you were Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The next Trump economic boom will begin on November 5th, 2024. It's going to be a boom like no other.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Words, of course, that now live in infamy at this moment. Tonight, the treasury secretary is trying to turn things around. They -- they feel the clock. They feel the pressure. He's previewing deals.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BESSENT: I would guess that India would be one of the first trade deals we would sign. So watch this space.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: That could come as soon as tomorrow. Who knows. They've got announcements in the morning. It's one of the many deals were told Trump is making. But it's been very, very tough to pin the administration down on something of such a crucial nature. Tariffs and the economy or recession.
How many deals are they negotiating?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We now have 18 proposals on paper that have been brought to the trade team.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Okay, 18, who knows? I mean, sort of lick your finger and stick it in the air, because Trump's number dwarfs anything the White House has put out, he told "Time Magazine". And I quote him, I've made 200 deals. "Time" responding, you made 200 deals. Trump, 100 percent.
Now, never mind, Karoline Leavitt said 18. Trump says 200. Let's just compare Trump's number of 200 to the list that he released when he announced his sweeping tariffs earlier this month. In front of that board, when they were all scrolling by, there were not even 200 countries on it in total.
Now -- and that and that. Remember that island? What's it called? Is there anyone who remembers that island?
The island that was inhabited only by penguins.
Now, one of those countries that team Trump is continuing to say they are talking to as we speak, is China.
[19:05:01]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BESSENT: All aspects of government are in contact with China.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: China, though, keeps shutting down this claim, the Chinese embassy telling OUTFRONT exclusively that no one from the Chinese government has spoken to the Trump administration. And all this back and forth has come, as Trump has said, he would slash the tariffs on China.
Now, he said that without any negotiating or any talks at all, which brought to mind an episode of "Seinfeld" where George and Jerry were negotiating a deal with NBC for the show about nothing. So, in this episode, NBC offers -- offers them $12,000, OK, for the whole show. And then this happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So what did we get?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: $8,000.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Beautiful. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's for the two of us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Four thousand apiece?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me see if I understand this. In other words, you held out for less money.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was wrong. You were right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, the basic idea of negotiation, as I understand it, is to get your price to go up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're smart. Dumb, dumb.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, this is how they negotiate in the bizarro world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Which may be the world that we're living in right now. Why is it that Seinfeld. There's always something there? Is Trump about to make the same deal as George Costanza?
Alayna Treene is OUTFRONT live outside the White House to begin our coverage.
So, Alayna, you know, we know that Scott Bessent may be speaking tomorrow before the markets open. They're under incredible pressure to announce some things. How much pressure is Trump feeling right now to get an actual trade deal on the table?
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: I think, of course, there's a lot of pressure, particularly when you look at some of the dismal polling numbers we saw from that new CNN poll. I mean, Americans are not confident right now that the president is delivering on his promise for this economic revival. I remember covering the president throughout his time on the campaign trail, repeatedly saying that it was going to be the golden age of America that he would usher in.
But when it comes to the economy, Americans aren't feeling that. So yes, this administration is under heavy pressure to try and get a deal out on this. Now, we did hear Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent say a deal with India could come as early as this week. In my conversations, I do -- I'm told not to anticipate that that would be announced tomorrow, but we are going to hear from the treasury secretary directly tomorrow morning, 8:30, before markets open. He'll be speaking in the briefing room, obviously taking questions from reporters who are going to be pressing him on that exact topic. What is the status of these trade deals?
But, Erin, one thing that's been so striking to me is the president's tone on the economy. I am told that when he goes to Michigan tomorrow, he is going to try to go on offense on this issue. He's going to talk about tax cuts, which really we haven't heard anything about other than Bessent today telling people on Capitol Hill just moments ago, really, that he wants the tax cuts deal by July. But no one Americans haven't had really, you know, something to look
forward to. And that's been the thing that I'm hearing behind closed doors is really been a key frustration. The president has said that he is willing he wants Americans to be patient. He is willing for there to be some pain in the short term. But how long will that -- will they be able to endure that pain?
That is really a key question. And tomorrow that's going to be the focus. His 100th day in office. They are choosing to make it about the economy. And right now, it's really not one of the winning issues for this White House -- Erin.
BURNETT: Of course. Thank you so much, Alayna.
An economy, you know, sometimes you think something is short term. It gets out of your control and then you don't know what it is.
All right. Everyone's here with me.
Dan, so let's just start off with Apollo's chief economist, Torsten Slok, came out big analysis, and its worth reading in full, but saying the probability of a recession now 90 percent which is just a stunning turnaround here in the past six weeks. What do you think?
DAN IVES, GLOBAL HEAD OF TECHNOLOGY RESEARCH, WEDBUSH SECURITIES: I mean, look, we've talked about it, the uncertainty and this avalanche that's created. It's likely a recession. That's what -- what's likely in the cards because what's happening on the enterprise and what is going to happen with consumers because it comes down to like times not on their side. That's why they continue to talk deals, deals, deals.
But it's a Costanza moment because ultimately, they know the cards on the table. It's not a good deck. And that's why the reality is, is that the market knows that they know they have to walk back.
BURNETT: And, Alexis, you know, sometimes economics is about psychology, right? So, you've got the economic reality. The CNN poll, 59 percent of people say Trump's policy may have made things worse. You know, it's gone up. I mean, when people get scared of a recession, sometimes a recession happens.
ALEXIS GLICK, FORMER MORGAN STANLEY EXECUTIVE: That's exactly right. And you often don't know you're in a recession until after the fact. Technically, a recession is two consecutive quarters of contraction. What's really important here is that in the fourth quarter, GDP was about 2.4 percent.
This Wednesday, our first look at first quarter GDP is going to come out. The prediction right now is 0.8 percent. But a lot of folks believe it's going to be negative because you're going to see a lot of distortions for the fact that people were actually stacking up inventory in advance of the tariffs.
[19:10:02]
The second thing to keep in mind is the University of Michigan consumer sentiment index, which came out two weeks ago. That reading was the lowest reading since covid. And the inflation predictions there took it up from 5 to 6.5 percent.
So, sentiment is absolutely not your friend right now. Add to it on Friday, you'll get the first look at the jobs data on Friday, and that will be reflective of the month of April. What is business doing?
BURNETT: And that shows some of this.
Paul, looking at this eve of 100 days, this is your whiteboard.
Dan got a whiteboard. Okay. This is your whiteboard.
But this was just going through okay. This is eve of first 100 days, okay? I want to start with red because there's one market down.
PAUL HICKEY, CO-FOUNDER, BESPOKE INVESTMENT GROUP: Yes.
BURNETT: That's big and it's down a lot. And that is ours is down 8.4 percent, okay? That's the U.S. economy since U.S. market since --
HICKEY: Since inauguration.
BURNETT: So, basically, eve of 100 days, eve of tomorrow. Okay. And then just to pick some of the others Canada where the trade war is, is in full swing. That market is up 3.4 percent. I'm going off your numbers, Paul. These are the -- these are the ways you track the index.
HICKEY: Yes.
BURNETT: Okay. U.K. up. Imagine a world in which this was us 10.2. Okay?
Germany, the German bond we've talked so much about Germany. Okay, 18.5 up. I mean, this is sick. Now, what about Mexico?
HICKEY: Mexico?
BURNETT: I don't expect to remember it offhand, but your number was 20.9 percent. So, one thing stands out here.
HICKEY: We're outperforming Turkey.
BURNETT: Oh!
IVES: That's great news.
BURNETT: There is a glass half full kind of guy.
IVES: That's a Hickey glass half full.
HICKEY: But so when you think about it, since liberation day and since the inauguration, the U.S. markets have underperformed. Every G7 country and most other countries. So, it's been a -- you know, it's been a pullback. A lot of it is stock markets. And more importantly, the weakness in the dollar.
The last two months is on pace for the weakest two month stretch in the dollar since December 1987. So we've seen a big pullback in the dollar. You can argue that it was overvalued.
BURNETT: Of some dark things that happened around that time.
HICKEY: But -- but again, December 1987, that was one of probably the best buying opportunities in decades. So, in that --
BURNETT: There we go. So, the guy always finds a way to possibly glass hall full.
HICKEY: And we're talking -- we talked about Torsten Slok talking about a 90 percent chance of a recession. I think most anyone will say we're going to have a recession, or at least it's better than a coin flip that we're going to have a recession.
Look, we did see a 20 percent pullback in the market. We're still down over 10 percent. So, it's not as though were you know, just you know, you know, being complacent and not --
BURNETT: Whistling to the graveyard.
HICKEY: Yeah. Exactly. So, the markets have reflected.
PETER TUCHMAN, TRADER AT THE NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE: You know, look, you have to put it in perspective. In 2024 out of 212 trading days, we had 58 record closes. Think about that. Okay?
The beautiful box with a bow and some beautiful. Yeah. That was handed to this president from the last president, right, was an economy that was solid. It was a market that was trading at record highs across the board.
And so, as we talked about it with Richard the other day, this is self-inflicted. It does not need to happen. It's -- I feel like Jim Cramer when you were with him that day when he was screaming, they know nothing. They know nothing.
It is so disrespectful to the general population of this country. Many people who voted for him to think that this did not have to happen. This was not in the cards, right?
You know, you're creating this catastrophe around the R word. Okay? This is so real. What's happening?
And today, I felt that in the market -- yes, we had four days last week where the market was up. Why it was up? We all talked about it, that maybe it was a little bit of hope. You know, that a deal had to be made because the dark side of that, of that scenario is so bad. Right.
And you talked about it that boats are lining up and that there are going to be empty shelves. And the last time we saw this was, was COVID, right? Think about that. We couldn't get toilet paper or paper towels, and if that's what we're looking at. This did not have to happen.
BURNETT: And, Dan, I'm curious, you know, the India deal. They've talked a lot about. They say they have an India deal member of I'm understanding. Obviously, that would be significant. And I say without trying to be tongue in cheek, though, I raise the Seinfeld example, you know, everything's going to be in the details of a, quote/unquote, deal.
IVES: It -- look, it goes back to the reason it's a Costanza moment. It's because the reality is that investors need to see a deal. You could talk all day long. You need to see what the details are.
And I think that's why this continues to kick the can down the road. But I think it's something that pierces like every day. And we all see, like, clocks ticking. Times not on your side. You need to get a deal done, a good deal.
GLICK: That's the -- that's the key thing is a good deal. And I think the reason India is interesting, right. First of all, we need deals. But the reason India -- India is interesting, it is the 10th. You know, if you look at the list, they're the 10th on the trade deficit list.
But there is what's called the quad grouping which is essentially Japan, India, Australia and the United States. And the four of them are meeting later this year.
[19:15:02]
And we have talked with Modi about the idea of building a bilateral trade agreement worth as much as $500 billion by 2030. Right now, that's at about $130 billion.
So, if they can come out and give some tea leaves into we are really working toward a half a trillion dollar bilateral trade agreement. And you look at those four countries seated around the table in the quad grouping. Theres news to that. And that's why you're hearing them talk more about India and more about Japan than anywhere else.
But the other quick thing I would just add is keep in mind that with all the performance in the stock market of late in Europe, right, if you look at the last 16 years, the euro index has only outperformed the U.S. in three of the last 16 years in large measure was for two reasons. The U.S. dollar is up 30 percent in that period of time, just like you talked about. So, some of this is the dollar contraction. And some of this is that tech is a huge leader in the U.S.
BURNETT: This also though, brings, as you've talked a lot to what we heard Ken Griffin say, who had donated to the inauguration and now talks about the self-imposed damage to brand America.
TUCHMAN: The brand America, which is being eaten away in so many -- I mean, think about it. You're talking about Ken Griffin, one of the one of the wealthiest people in the world, somebody who has a major presence in, in on the floor of the stock exchange as citadel, one of the largest funds and market makers in the world and a big Trump supporter as well to be talking about that, we have eaten away by America as a brand is devastating. Think about what we're talking about here. You're talking about 2030.
We did not have to be sitting here in this point. This was not -- this was not in the cards. Right. We literally at the end of last year, the last Fed meeting that that Jay Powell had when he cut guidance, going from '25 and '26 from four cuts each year to two, was because he said, we don't need to expel a bullet from our gun if we don't need to.
The economy and the market is strong enough to support everything that's going on. We're in good shape, right? And so to think this is just so reminiscent of COVID, it's reminiscent of the predatory, you know, of the financial crisis of '08, '09.
IVES: Paul --
HICKEY: There's no precedent. And as Willie Nelson, whose birthday is tomorrow, said, if you create your own hell, only you have the power to get yourself out of it. So, this is all self-inflicted and there's still time.
We talked about time last week, so much -- earnings news has come in this for Q1. Results have been much better than expected on earnings and sales. That's all backward looking. But we've talked about and we expected guidance to be terrible.
So far this quarter, an equal number percentage of companies have raised guidance versus lowered guidance, which is -- which is shocking -- which is shocking like that companies are willing to raise guidance in this situation. So, it's not -- it's unexpected and gives us hope that there's still times if we get good details on a deal tomorrow.
IVES: So, Paul, do you think this is basically do we go Willie Nelson or Costanza? I think that -- that that's --
GLICK: You know, actually --
IVES: I know -- that's what --
BURNETT: I think they might be in the same place.
IVES: I think that --
BURNETT: Deal went from 12,000 to 8000.
IVES: I think that's what Hickey's saying in his wife --
GLICK: You know what, actually, we're going to be talking about a week from now? We're going to be talking about stagflation, everybody recession, recession, recession, recession right now. And then it's going to move to stagflation and stagflation, as we know it is basically low to no growth, right? With high inflation and rising job losses.
And the issue will be that technology, A.I., will have a stagflationary enforce -- a stagflationary impact on the economy. So, this will be so interesting to watch the sea change in the language move from recession to stagflation. That is my prediction. That's the next thing.
TUCHMAN: Think about what you're talking about for the last year. You're talking about Nvidia. February 2023, $108.
IVES: A.I. revolution.
TUCHMAN: February 2024, $900, right? $50 billion buyback. One of the great earnings estimate. It is what brought this market all together.
You said for the first time that the U.S. is side by side, if not leading a little bit, China in the A.I. and the tech. Tik, tik, tik, tik. Tik. Yeah, giddy up on that.
(LAUGHTER)
IVES: That was that was Cramer.
TUCHMAN: That was a little -- that was a little Cramer.
HICKEY: That was some that was some Cramer -- getting a little crazy.
TUCHMAN: I mean, that's just -- it's madness.
(CROSSTALK)
TUCHMAN: Absolute madness that we are sitting here talking about this when this did not. And I kept harping on it. But it's not.
BURNETT: All right.
TUCHMAN: Let's think about it February -- February 19th, we were at a record high in the market. Two months later we were talking about it. I mean, that's why things are the earnings are not so bad because things have been so good for so long.
IVES: So, Cramer, but the guidance -- the guidance is -- is --
BURNETT: I -- I hit pause until tomorrow. We'll see what we're talking about.
And next, more trouble for a top Trump nominee. This happened today on Capitol Hill. KFILE then uncovered audio of this person praising an alleged Nazi sympathizer. Wait until you see the full report.
Plus, RFK, Jr. feeling more heat tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN OLIVER, TV HOST: RFK needs to go.
[19:20:00]
And by impeachment if necessary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Kennedy's sister, Kerry -- Kerry Kennedy is our next guest with her response.
And a special OUTFRONT investigation tonight, how some of Trump's wealthiest advisers stand to gain even more money thanks to Trump's policies. Wait until you see the details on the people and the money.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight, praising an alleged Nazi sympathizer, President Trump's nominee to be one of the nation's most powerful prosecutors, apologizing for doing just that as he faces a tough confirmation battle.
Ed Martin is Trump's pick as U.S. attorney for Washington, D.C., and he claims that he did not know the man you see on your screen, whose name is Timothy Hale-Cusanelli.
[19:25:02]
He said he didn't know his history as a January 6th rioter or as -- as perhaps you can tell from this, an alleged Nazi sympathizer.
Now, Martin says, quote, I'm sorry, I denounce everything about what that guy said. Everything about what the way he talked and all, as I've now seen it. But KFILE has uncovered all the audio that shows Martin should have known better. Still calling him an amazing guy, quote/unquote.
And Andrew Kaczynski of KFILE is here with me now.
So, Andrew, this is Trump's pick to be U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia. It's really important job. Ed Martin distancing himself now from this alleged Nazi sympathizer who obviously sported that Hitler mustache there. But he had repeatedly praised this individual in the past. What did you find?
ANDREW KACZYNSKI, CNN KFILE SENIOR EDITOR: Yeah, he's -- he's apologizing now. He says he wasn't aware of the full extent of his comments, but the audio that we found really sort of directly, appears to directly undermine that because we found on multiple podcast interviews they actually discussed this guy's alleged views. They even brought up that mustache that everybody just saw.
And they were -- they discussed it. They -- they really sort of almost dismissed it. Take a listen to them talking about it here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED MARTIN, TRUMP NOMINEE: And in your case, they used your phone and took a photo and leaked a photo to say look, these people, these people, MAGA people are antisemitic. And the photo was of you. You've -- I've heard you say it before. You know, you had, like, a mustache shaved in such a way that you looked vaguely like Hitler and making jokes about it again, you know, not -- not your best moment, but not illegal.
Have you ever been to a Nazi rally?
TIMOTHY HALE-CUSANELLI, ALLEGED NAZI SYMPATHIZER: No, I have not. I mean, I wouldn't know where to find one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Vaguely like Hitler.
KACZYNSKI: Vaguely, yeah.
BURNETT: Okay. So not only is he aware of this guy's past behavior, it would seem from what you found. But the two have been friendly from your reporting now for quite a while.
KACZYNSKI: Yeah, that's right, Erin. He called him an amazing guy, a great friend. You know, he was downplaying in some of the appearance that we -- that we saw that he was downplaying those views that came out ahead of the trial.
They called it character assassination, even, and though when he's saying that he didn't know about it his racist and his antisemitic views came out long before Martin started associating with him. I'm pretty sure every single article on this guy as of January 6th, rider mentioned that it had been thoroughly documented. There was a Navy investigation where he worked. It came out in court records.
And still, this is what Martin said about him. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: We'll miss her but she subbed out with a great friend of ours, too, Tim Hale. The only thing you did that was really egregious to me was at one point on camera, you were sort of dancing in one of the one of the areas as celebrating America. That wasn't your best dance moves. Our next guest is my friend Timothy Hale. He's an amazing guy who has gotten through all that and has a great perspective.
So welcome back, Tim. How are you?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KACZYNSKI: And look, Erin, so -- his -- the vote for Martin is coming up. He had to submit questions and answers to senators. Senators sent him a bunch of questions. And we just actually -- my colleague Annie Grayer got those answers tonight. And one of the answers that he said about Mr. Hale was, quote, and I'm just reading from what he sent to senators was, I am not close with him, but we in another clip that we found said, quote, Tim Hale is an extraordinary guy. I've gotten to know him really well. I'd say we're friends over the last few years, so now I'm not close with him. But before he --
BURNETT: Got to know him.
KACZYNSKI: Really well and extraordinary guy. Yes. BURNETT: Extraordinary guy.
All right. He is also under scrutiny for failing to initially disclose about 200 media appearances. As we're talking Ed Martin who's up for this important position? "Washington Post" found more than 150 of those 200 that he failed to disclose were with Russian state media.
KACZYNSKI: That's right. And we actually ourselves at CNN did a story where we found that he failed to disclose a lot of appearances on a host of shows, including some far right shows that he went on. And one of these rules about a nomination is you are supposed to give everything -- you're supposed to give every speech, everything written. It's actually really pretty invasive and that they want to examine everything that you said.
Now, five days before he submitted his paperwork to the Senate Judiciary Committee in late March, the episodes of his podcast is Apple podcasts and Spotify were made unavailable. That's according to what a source told us, who was familiar with the review process for the committee.
Now, CNN, we saved all of those actually long, before that they were removed. And one of the episodes we found was him and the sort of shows what he might do as the, as, you know, one of in his position as an assistant attorney general, they said one of the files that we found was him suggesting that anybody who investigated Donald Trump in 2024, should be charged under the RICO law.
[19:30:02]
That's a law that was used to previously, investigate the mafia. He said that it was sort of a collusion to bring Donald Trump down. Listen to him here.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
MARTIN: Congressman Donalds was on TV and he was saying, hey, look what the Democrats are doing and how they're colluding together and working together to take down Donald Trump. He said, it's like it should be charged under RICO. It's a coordinated effort, like -- like a racketeering organized crime.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
KACZYNSKI: So we did reach out to the folks at the Justice Department about all of this stuff, the missing appearances, what he said about hale, and they declined to comment to us on the record.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Andrew Kaczynski of KFILE.
And next, Michelle Obama revealing her biggest fear of President Trump right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER U.S. FIRST LADY: And I don't know that we will have the advocates to protect everybody. And that makes me -- that frightens me. It keeps me up at night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Plus, as we're speaking here this hour, we have breaking news. Russia striking Kyiv tonight as Putin once again talks about a ceasefire that is anything but.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:35:23]
BURNETT: Tonight, former First Lady Michelle Obama revealing what she says her biggest fear is right now in the Trump administration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: In this current climate, for me, it's -- you know, what's happening to immigrants. My fears are for what I know is happening out there in streets all over the city. And now that we have leadership that is sort of indiscriminately determining who belongs and who doesn't. I worry for people of color all over this country, and I don't know that we will have the advocates to protect everybody. And that makes me -- that frightens me. It keeps me up at night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right. Those comments come as one of the world's top human rights advocates is now trying to take the fight directly to the Trump administration over the deportations, an administration that her own brother, RFK Jr. serves him.
Kerry Kennedy is the daughter of the late Robert Kennedy and niece of former President John F. Kennedy, and she is in El Salvador right now getting blocked from entering multiple prisons where immigrants deported by the Trump administration are currently being held.
Kerry Kennedy is OUTFRONT with me now.
And, Kerry, I'm glad to see you again. I know today you said you were holding a press conference just today, and you were talking about your attempts to visit the prisons to meet with some of the Venezuelan detainees, ten of whom you are legally representing. And as you're doing this, police showed up.
Can you tell me what happened next?
KERRY KENNEDY, PRESIDENT, RFK HUMAN RIGHTS: Yeah, they showed up and they said they want to know who was there in the press conference, who was covering our press conference, and they said they were going to take photographs of all of the cars that were in the parking lot of an independent nonprofit organization, one of the leading human rights organizations in El Salvador.
BURNETT: And take pictures of the plates and the license plates. That is chilling. I know, Kerry, that you had requested as part of this access specifically to CECOT, the, you know, among the other prisons, Kilmar Abrego Garcia at one point certainly was being held there. He is the immigrant, wrongly deported by the Trump administration. Now, you asked for access you know, to visit CECOT. And that's the maximum security prison.
So, I know you're still waiting for that access, but I'm curious, Kerry, because others have not had any trouble obtaining access. Republican members of Congress, current and former quite a few of them have gone through CECOT, some of them I'm showing here.
What do you think is what's the difference? I mean, it's much easier for them than it is for you.
KENNEDY: Yeah. Well, let me just say, first of all, that we represent ten of these clients there are up to 288 people who were kidnaped off the streets of the United States. We don't know exactly how many U.S. citizens might be among them.
We know that among our clients, none of them had criminal convictions except for one who is human, who was a victim of human trafficking. His traffickers were subsequently convicted, and he now should, under U.S. law, have asylum. None of our clients were in the United States illegally.
So, these are the people who the Trump administration wants to label as criminals, as gang members. But, you know, we don't know the truth or falsity of any of this in our assumption is, as Americans, that you are innocent until -- until deemed, guilty. And access to clients, we have -- we asked for -- from the president's office. We communicated with the vice president's office.
We communicated with the government of El Salvador and Washington, D.C., and we were not given access to our clients. That is completely consistent with everything we heard from victims here, from human rights organizations here and from the independent journalists with whom we spoke. People are held incommunicado in jails for years and years and years under what has become really martial law under the state of exception for the last three years in this country.
[19:40:06]
And these poor people, they're the poorest and most vulnerable on Earth, are now stuck between the authoritarian rule of the Trump administration, the authoritarian rule here in El Salvador and the authoritarian rule in Venezuela.
BURNETT: Kerry, you know, when you and I spoke recently, you know, we talked about your brother who you said not only did you love him, but you liked him, but obviously you and he disagree with great vehemence right now on politics and health issues. And I'm curious, I don't know if you had a chance to see this, because I know that you have been on the ground here fighting in El Salvador.
But John Oliver gave a 35-minute segment last night, 35 minutes he dedicated to your brother's actions at -- as HHS secretary, and it has gone viral. I wanted to play for you just a clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN OLIVER, TV HOST: RFK needs to go. And by impeachment, if necessary, how much damage has already been done? This is a man who is clearly in way over his worm riddled head. He doesn't know what he's doing. He doesn't know who he's fired. He doesn't even know how many diabetic people there are in China. And if that wasn't bad enough, he's currently spreading dangerous nonsense and gutting lifesaving research.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And obviously he's -- he's putting his own spin on it. Kerry. But do you agree fundamentally with the point that he's making?
KENNEDY: Well, I think that, you know, as I say, I love Bobby and I find him incredibly charismatic. But I have said and my other family members have been super clear about this, that we disagree again and again and again on the things that he said that that one shouldn't get vaccinated. Of course you should get vaccinated. Thats the only way to save you, your children are families and our communities, our country and our world.
That he said that people are transgender because of pollutants in the water, meaning that anybody who's transgender is somehow inherently sick, that HIV does not cause AIDS. This is insanity. Just look at the science.
So, I think this goes on and on and on. I love my brother. I think he's dead wrong about people with autism, which anybody who knows who has friends, family or has met people with autism. So, I think he is not an appropriate HHS secretary.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Kerry, I appreciate your time. And thank you very much for joining us from San Salvador, where I know you are working to get access to your clients who are currently detained in prisons in El Salvador. Thank you.
KENNEDY: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, the breaking news once again, Putin striking Kyiv tonight as the Trump administration has some tough words for Ukraine.
Plus, they are some of Trump's wealthiest advisers and they now stand to cash in on the very industries that they were a part of. A special OUTFRONT investigation is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:47:39]
BURNETT: Breaking news: Kyiv right now under attack. Air raid alerts going off at this hour in Ukraine's capital. Air defense systems trying to repel an air attack as Russia and North Korea tonight finally admit something that we've been reporting on, which is that its soldiers are fighting together against Ukraine.
And Fred Pleitgen is OUTFRONT tonight in Moscow.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A once concealed relationship now celebrated by the Kremlin, Russian state media releasing this video of North Korean troops training inside Russia, shooting rifles and firing grenade launchers after Vladimir Putin praised the North Korean troops for helping Moscow oust Ukrainian forces from Russia's Kursk region.
Congratulations to the entire personnel, all soldiers and commanders, on the success and victory, Putin said. Thank you for your courage, heroism and service to our fatherland and the people of Russia.
Even though Kyiv claims they still have forces inside the Kursk region, Russian and North Korean soldiers were pictured celebrating together after taking back one of the last Ukrainian held villages. Putin personally thanking North Korean strongman Kim Jong un for supporting Russia's military efforts.
Moscow and Pyongyang have dramatically expanded their military and economic ties in the past years. Putin receiving a hero's welcome when he visited North Korea in 2024.
North Korean TV now for the first time, acknowledging Kim Jong Un personally ordered his forces to help the Russians on the battlefield.
Under the order of the head of state, the subunits of the armed forces of the republic regarded the territory of Russia as one with their country and proved the firm alliance between the two countries. North Korea and Russia, state TV says, citing North Koreas central military commission.
And Putin says the victory in Kursk could set the stage for further military advances, while also declaring a unilateral ceasefire from May 8th until May 11th.
Vladimir Putin's unilateral ceasefire is set to go into effect around the celebrations commemorating 80 years since the defeat of Nazi Germany.
[19:50:03]
But it also goes into effect as President Trump's diplomatic initiative seems to be hitting a roadblock. While the Russians say they're also ready for direct talks with Kyiv any time without preconditions, with no peace deal in sight, President Trump, now acknowledging his efforts to end the conflict, are struggling.
REPORTER: Do you trust President Putin?
TRUMP: I'll let you know in about two weeks.
PLEITGEN: The Russians say they, too, want an end to the conflict. But the Kremlin has vowed they won't sign on to any agreement that could hurt what the Kremlin says are Russia's core national interests.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Moscow.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Thanks to Fred in Moscow.
And next, an OUTFRONT investigation. Some of Trump's wealthiest advisers are now actually overseeing the industries that made them so wealthy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight, if I'm not president, you're F-ed. President Trump sitting down for an interview with "The Atlantic". Thats a quote that I just read there, which also recalled a moment after the election when Trump told a room full of oil executives, and I want to read the quote from "The Atlantic". Quote, if I'm not president, you're F-ed.
[19:55:01]
Look at your profit and loss statements. You realize what would have happened to you if she was president. What's wrong with you?
It comes as Trump's cabinet members increasingly face questions over conflicts of interest, and Kyung Lah is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Where are we going in?
BRENT FOSTER, PARENT AND VOLUNTEER, MOSIER COMMUNITY SCHOOL: We're going into the boiler room here.
LAH: Through this door sits the impact of the Trump administrations first three months, says parent Brent Foster.
Is there a date on this thing?
FOSTER: It is very old. It's a diesel-powered fuel oil boiler. You know, this is 100-year-old technology.
LAH: That's why you may not recognize that this is a heater. It's an inefficient gas guzzling relic. It's as old as Mosier Community School in Oregon, a public school in a building constructed in 1920.
It sits 2,700 miles away from the White House. But the problem with this heater --
FOSTER: It's directly related to the decisions that are happening in Washington.
LAH: Throughout the school, many of the original windows are cracked holes in classrooms sealed with tape. The K through 8 students hold gym class underneath gigantic vents that violate national standards. This was all scheduled to change when the department of energy, under the Biden administration, awarded the school an $870,000 infrastructure grant funded by Congress.
FOSTER: To get that federal funding, it was just like -- it felt like a miracle. At the same time, when the funding got froze a month ago, it was kind of equally devastating.
LAH: Are you hearing anything from Washington.
FOSTER: Right now? I'd say there's not much more than uncertainty.
LAH: How did this stall so suddenly?
Enter Chris Wright, President Trump's new secretary of the Department of Energy.
CHRIS WRIGHT, ENERGY SECRETARY: The Trump administration will end the Biden administration's irrational, quasi religious policies on climate change.
LAH: Wright jumped into this job from founding and leading a $2 billion fracking company, which is regulated by the Department of Energy. Meaning in his new role, he oversees the industry. He just left.
Under Wright, the department has been boosting business for fossil fuel corporations. At the same time, the department has been slashing green energy efforts opposed by oil companies. Caught in the middle, energy efficient grants like the one for Mosier community school.
Wright is not the only uber wealthy cabinet secretary or adviser to Trump overseeing the industry. They came from posing potential conflicts of interest.
A CNN review of his actions over Trump's first 100 days found many of the changes made by this administration could directly enrich the president, his advisers or their former companies.
Trump's cabinet and advisers are the wealthiest in modern American history. These billionaires and multi-millionaires now call the shots in Washington, and some of them even oversee their former industries.
DANIELLE CAPUTO, SENIOR LEGAL COUNSEL, CAMPAIGN LEGAL CENTER: You have these titans of industry, these extremely wealthy people who are, you know, not just the top 1 percent, but the top 0.1 percent who are working within the administration. The industry itself is not what you should be focusing on as an administration official. You should be focusing on what's best for the public.
LAH: Elon Musk, not an official member of the cabinet known for Tesla.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I love Tesla.
LAH: And also, Starlink, Musk's Internet company. Trump's administration changed the rules, clearing the way for Starlink to win new government contracts, some potentially worth billions. And then there's Howard Lutnick, billionaire and commerce secretary.
TRUMP: Yesterday, I signed an executive order officially creating our strategic bitcoin reserve.
LAH: That move by Trump, a potential windfall for Lutnick's former financial firm now controlled by his son, which launched a cryptocurrency business last year.
HOWARD LUTNICK, COMMERCE SECRETARY: We're going to use digital assets to pound forward.
LAH: Disclosures show at least seven of Trump's top officials made significant investments in crypto.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You say and.
LAH: Mosier community students may not care or even know what a cabinet secretary is. They do know this.
UNIDENTIFIED STUDENT: Yesterday, the heaters went out.
UNIDENTIFIED STUDENT: It was kind of cold some of the days.
FOSTER: The idea that the federal government would sign a contract to essentially bring your school up to just very basic minimum and then pull the rug out from under us is difficult to understand, you know, and I hope it's not how it ends.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAH (on camera): And we did reach out to the Department of Energy to ask about this grant to Mosier Community School. It's a grant that does impact dozens of public schools across the country. The Energy Department spokesperson says that the department is currently undergoing a review to make sure its activities align with the law, as well as Trump administration policies, Erin.
And the secretary said in regards to -- the energy spokesperson said in regards to Secretary Wright, that he does follow all procedures within the department and disclosure rules -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right, Kyung, thank you very much.
Such important stuff for us all to know. And thanks to all of you for being with us.
"AC360" with Anderson begins now.
