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Erin Burnett Outfront

India Launches Military Operation Against Pakistan; Soon: Cardinals Hold First Vote To Elect The Next Pope; Where Are Trump's Trade Deals? Aired 7-8p ET

Aired May 06, 2025 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:25]

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:

The breaking news, two nuclear nations on the brink of an all-out war tonight after India launched a surprise deadly attack. Inside Pakistan. Now, Pakistan vowing to retaliate. CNN tonight, live on the ground.

And tonight, we are coming to you live from Rome, where one of the world's most sacred and secretive rituals. The conclave will begin at the Vatican behind us in just hours. We'll show you the top contenders for the next leader of the Catholic Church.

And the Dow dropping even after Trump promises again that there will be trade deals, but says none are necessary. Where are they?

Let's go OUTFRONT.

And good evening. Welcome to a special edition of OUTFRONT. I'm Erin Burnett, live from Rome, just outside the Vatican. You see behind me tonight where the sacred process to select a new pope will begin in a few hours.

We're going to have so much more on that in a moment. But the breaking news right now, two nuclear countries on the cusp of war tonight, a surprise deadly attack inside Pakistan. We're showing you on the screen, India claiming responsibility, saying that it attacked nine sites in Pakistan and Pakistan-controlled Kashmir.

Now, Pakistan's top military spokesman just moments ago warning. And I -- and I quote him, this heinous attack will not go unanswered. That same spokesman for Pakistan's military also telling CNN that Pakistan shot down two Indian aircraft. The two countries in this incredibly fragile moment, perilous moment reportedly have a combined 300 plus nuclear missiles. And not only that, 1.6 billion people live in those two countries.

Nic Robertson is OUTFRONT to begin our live breaking coverage. He is live inside Pakistan tonight.

Jim Sciutto also standing by with breaking news in this developing story.

Nic, can I just start with you here because you're on the ground. I know you're in Islamabad. Pakistan's military has vowed to respond.

I mean, what more can you tell us about this attack and Pakistan's threat to retaliate?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: At least five locations have been indicated by Pakistan's military that have been struck. Three of them are in Pakistan administered Kashmir. Two of them are in Pakistan proper.

One of those sites struck is the deepest India has struck inside Pakistan proper in more than 50 years, since Pakistan and India fought a major war in 1971. So, this is very, very significant. The Pakistan military say that three people have been killed, that all the casualties so far that they are seeing in this early assessment have been women and children.

They were also seeing there have been women and children and men as well, but there are women and children among the casualties. We've seen images of that.

The explosions were and the strikes were close enough to the capital, Islamabad, to shake buildings in the suburbs of the capital here. This is what Pakistan said they have been expecting their response thus far.

They say that they have shot down two Indian air force jets that have come down inside India, inside India, there is a possibility and we're waiting for more clarification on this, that a third Indian fighter jet may have been shot down.

But Pakistan's response that they describe as their proper response, we understand that has not yet begun.

BURNETT: So that ha not yet begun. Youve got two countries with nuclear weapons, you know, a war in the context of such instability worldwide, a terrifying thought. So how high is the tension? You're talking about multiple planes possibly shot down, nine attacks? What happens here?

ROBERTSON: Pakistan had vowed, as a matter of military doctrine, to respond. Senior security officials that I've been talking to have been describing this as an existential moment. Over the past 20 years, Pakistan's military has become tougher. It has fought an insurgency on the other side of the country. It's resolve has grown stronger.

The fact that India has moved very quickly, according to Pakistani officials, to abrogate, to stop the 1960 Indus water treaty, which shares three major rivers of water vital to Pakistan, flowing out of the Kashmir region, that India has said that they will turn that water off.

In effect, Pakistan sees that as an existential threat. They believe that this that India jumped to this decision very quickly. They believe its something that India was planning and therefore very senior security officials here told me that there is a dynamic at play that needs to be broken, and therefore, it is clear to me that because India struck in Pakistan proper, that Pakistan -- Pakistan will strike back forcefully, as they say, inside of India.

How India responds to that will -- will then determine how quickly this ratchets up a security source here or has told me this evening that the national security advisor here in Pakistan has taken a call from secretary of state and national security advisor, Marco Rubio.

But this has gotten to a very, very serious level. It is not -- not over by any stretch. And yes, this could escalate a lot more and very quickly.

BURNETT: All right, Nick, thank you very much.

And, Nick, I know it has been speaking to sources in the Pakistani military as this is rapidly developing. I mean, we understand, right? We're not even sure how many planes have been shot down.

Jim Sciutto, our chief national security analyst -- Jim, I know you have also been speaking to senior sources within the Pakistani military using incredibly strong language. What have they told you?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yeah, just a short time ago, I spoke to Lieutenant General Ahmed Sharif Chaudhry, who's a spokesperson for the Pakistani military, and his words are concerning and words matter in a conflict such as this, he called India's attack an unprovoked, blatant act of war.

And I pressed him on that language because I said, are you saying that you're at war? And he said, no. He called it an evolving situation. But we should be clear, Pakistan is quite publicly vowing a military response at this point. And he said that India has pushed the two countries right up to -- and I'm using his words here, the brink of conflict.

So, Pakistan is vowing a response. We're waiting to see how broad that response is. I should note that just in the last several minutes, an explosion was heard inside the Indian administered part of Kashmir. It is not clear yet that this is a Pakistani response, but we are checking to see if this might be the first salvo, as it were.

I should also note that, as you said earlier, Erin, Lieutenant General Chaudhry said to me that Pakistan managed to shoot down at least two Indian aircraft during this Indian operation. Now, I should note India has not yet responded to that claim. And it is possible because this is an information war as much as anything else, that that will not be confirmed, right?

And that that that gives Pakistan some freedom, as it were, to claim that they have already struck back a blow against India. But it remains to be seen. This has the ingredients of something larger. We'll see if they're able to contain the escalation.

BURNETT: Yeah. I mean, and obviously vowing to respond, you know, in a situation, Jim is just so crucial to emphasize, its not just the number of people, right? Almost 2 billion people involved in whatever more broadly could occur. It's the nuclear, both of them are nuclear countries. SCIUTTO: Yeah. Listen, I was going down the list of prior events of

exchanges of fire between India and Pakistan, 2019, 2016, 2014, 2013, 2011, 2008, 2002. I was in Pakistan all those years ago, in 2002, and at the time of that military exchange, there was genuine concern in this country that it might lead to a nuclear exchange.

We are not there yet, but given the volatile combination of weapons systems and internal politics, we should be -- we should be clear, Erin, here, because there is appetite in Pakistan for a military response to the terror attack that took place in Kashmir a couple of weeks ago, killed some two dozen Indian nationals. And now, there is appetite -- appetite in the Pakistani public for some sort of Pakistani response.

And that that adds to the volatile mix here, right, of pushing leaders to -- to show strength. Of course, the trouble is what is viewed on one side as a measured response, as India is describing its attack, might be viewed by the other side as escalatory.

BURNETT: Yeah. All right. Jim Sciutto, thank you very much. And Nic Robertson on the ground in Pakistan's capital tonight.

All right. And here in Rome, just behind me, the 133 cardinals are about to begin. One of the worlds most secretive processes, the conclave. And it starts in just a few hours.

And the entire world is waiting to hear who the next leader of more than a billion Catholics around the globe will be. It is, of course, important for so much more than Catholics. The conclave itself is an 800-year-old ritual. It's steeped in intrigue and tradition. It is still devoid of social media and all the modern trappings that we are now used to.

And it begins in just a few hours from now, with a mass for the cardinal electors that will be in St. Peter's Basilica, which is just behind where were sitting now. From there, that will be, in a sense, a spiritual battle for the soul of the Catholic Church.

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And it will play out inside the Sistine Chapel, which is also behind us, to the side of St. Peter's Basilica. The whole process will be sealed from the outside world. When I said none of the modern trappings, there is no cell phone service. Every signal is blocked. They don't have phones. They don't have iPads. Nothing.

No access to the outside world shut off to ensure that what happens during the conclave remains a mystery to the outside world, and is not influenced by the outside world.

So we'll just show you here. This is the order in which the conclave, the cardinals are going to vote during the conclave, 133 names. And by this time tomorrow, the first votes are going to have taken place. They're going to be voting over days until they have a pope. So, this is the list and the order they're going to go. The person who is chosen will be so much more than the leader of the

worlds Catholics. The new popes influence will be felt beyond the Vatican and the Catholic faith. And that is why this is such an important moment in history.

Pope Francis, who was pope for 12 years, was very vocal on some of the world's most pressing issues and political ones. He warned against the rise of nationalism in Europe. He compared some present-day political rhetoric to that of Nazi Germany. He wasn't afraid of the word. He wasn't afraid of making comments about dictatorships and authoritarianism.

He spoke about climate change, insisting the planet was near a breaking point and took on Putin's war in Ukraine, begging him to end the spiral of violence and death. And he wasn't afraid to repeatedly criticized Trump's crackdown on immigration, one of the most defining images and moments of his papacy. From Trump's border wall to his policies that resulted in separating families. Francis took all of that on.

And what remains to be seen is whether the next pope will follow in those footsteps, both intellectually, spiritually, religiously, and also rhetorically, or take the church on a much more conservative, traditional path.

One cardinal seen as a top contender to be the next pope, has spoken out about the growing role religion has been playing in politics. Cardinal Pizzaballa from Jerusalem recently saying the lesson I see here is that faith and power don't go well together. If you want to be free as a religious leader, you have to be independent from any kind of power, economic power, political power, social power, whatever. And we are not there now. Criticism.

And there is no time limit for how long this conclave will take. The longest one took nearly three years. There were reforms after that, the shortest only hours. The cardinals will vote until there is a two- thirds plus one majority.

And Christopher Lamb is our Vatican correspondent. He joins me here live.

And, Chris, a significant moment, you know, for the church, for the world, there are very few moments like this now in this world we live in. And you actually have a very rare copy of something that cardinals are looking at. Cardinals who really up until this point, many did not know each other well, but biographies and descriptions of top contenders.

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, that's right, Erin, you said, of course, that this conclave is a secretive process. And the reason behind that is to stop lobbying and influencing. And this report, though, is an attempt by some groups to try and influence the conclave in a direction which is different to Pope Francis. This is a dossier of the leading candidates, written in a certain way, that praises the conservative contenders, but raises questions about those cardinals closer to Pope Francis. Of course, there are many groups trying to influence this conclave.

It's one of the most intensely watched, I think anyone can remember. I've been talking to cardinals recently about what they're -- what they've been discussing, what they're thinking about, and I had a look in this report about what's on the table.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAMB (voice-over): An election that takes place behind closed doors. Followed more intensely than ever before thanks to the popularity of the 2024 film "Conclave".

In real life, cardinals are in Rome, preparing to be cut off from the world for the vote. Coming from 71 countries taking part in the most unpredictable papal election in decades. One cardinal telling CNN exclusively what it's like to take part.

CARDINAL OSWALD GRACIAS, RETIRED ARCHBISHOP OF BOMBAY: I want to tell you it's a spiritual experience. It's when we get into there -- there's no socializing, there's no small talk. Everybody is conscious of his responsibility and there's no chatting.

LAMB: At stake. The future direction of the Catholic Church. The days leading up to the conclave have been full of debate and fevered speculation. The choice, continue with Francis's reforms or make a course correction.

Some retired cardinals reportedly attacked Francis's desire for the church to give greater authority to women and those not in the hierarchy. American Cardinal Timothy Dolan is hoping the next pope brings together qualities of the last three, including John Paul II and Benedict, who are more conservative on internal reforms.

CARDINAL TIMOTHY DOLAN, ARCHBISHOP OF NEW YORK: You kind of hope that maybe we could blend them all. I'm thinking, obviously, of Papa Francisco.

[19:15:01]

I think of Benedict XVI with his intense intellect. I'm thinking of Pope Saint John Paul II, with his courage and his call -- his call to follow Jesus. If we get a beautiful combination, that'll be a blessing.

LAMB: One purported frontrunner remains Cardinal Parolin, but some say his star is fading. A cardinal told me privately we have the saying he who enters a conclave as pope leaves a cardinal, and that encourages me.

Outsiders are being talked about and like the movie, someone unexpected could emerge. Cardinal Aveline of France, who was strong on interreligious dialogue and welcoming migrants. Cardinal Grech of Malta, who has overseen a multiyear reform process started by Pope Francis. Cardinal David of the Philippines, who stood up to President Duterte and faced death threats. Cardinal Pizzaballa, an advocate for peace based in Jerusalem. Even an American pope is not off the cards, with talk of support growing for Chicago born Cardinal Prevost.

GRACIAS: This is unthinkable. The. American I don't know why, but there could be an American pope. It's a good American who's got the qualities and can lead the church. Certainly, I think all the American cardinals are friends of mine, and I think any of them could have been -- could be the pope. They have good qualities. And why not?

LAMB: Aan unpredictable conclave which could be set up for a surprise.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT: So, Christopher, you know, we were talking about this list. You obtained this list. This is the order that they're going to vote. So do they literally go in this order every single time. And what determines the order?

LAMB: Yes, they do follow that order because the conclave is also a kind of a liturgy as well. And it follows a set pattern. And it starts with the cardinal bishops. Theres ranks within the cardinals, cardinal bishops, cardinal priests, cardinal deacons. So, you start with cardinal bishops, the most senior, and then you go down to cardinal priest, cardinal deacons.

And they will each process forward, place their paper ballot in the urn and go back to their seats. And then, of course, wait for the ballots to be read out.

BURNETT: And then we see, you know, how many, how many rounds it takes. At least Elise Allen, our Vatican analyst is also here with us tonight.

And it is a special moment here because, you know, right. What begins tomorrow, there's a feeling of that kind of butterflies in the stomach, just -- just being present in this place, this moment of history.

You say the cardinals though, who are ostensibly sleeping right now, have been sizing each other up and waiting for this moment for years, even though weve heard so much emphasis about how the vast majority of them were named by Francis and thus haven't had a lot of time to have interpersonal, you know, kind of connections and relationships.

ELISE ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: No, exactly. I think that's one of the unique aspects of this conclave is so many of these cardinals are unknown to one another. You know, Pope Francis really made it a goal of his to appoint cardinals that were very diverse. He wanted the church and the College of Cardinals to represent the global church, not just, you know, the western church or certain regions of the world. He wanted it to reflect the realities on the ground, you know, appointing many more cardinals from the Global South, for example, you know?

And so that means that coming here to Rome for this conclave, many of them were unknown to one another, you know, and so these pre-conclave meetings that they've been having have been very important occasions for them to get to know one another. BURNETT: And so, you know, Chris, this is the most unpredictable

conclave in. Well, in decades. Youve been saying we've been hearing that, which makes it in a sense that there's that excitement. 260 this will be the 267th pope, never an American pope. And obviously popes predate the concept of America to state the obvious.

But you think that could change. You mentioned in your report, Cardinal Robert Prevost from Chicago.

LAMB: Yes. There is a conventional wisdom in the past that says there couldn't be an American pope because of the U.S. position on the world stage, but that seems to be shifting. The cardinals I speak to say that nationality isn't the most important thing, and someone like Cardinal Prevost is seen as a potential candidate because he spent so much time outside of the U.S. in Peru. So he's seen as a kind of un- American American candidate and therefore could be considered.

BURNETT: You're looking at him as well as others I know. Tagle of the Philippines and others that you're focused on, that you do think there's sort of a final group?

ALLEN: I think there's a final group of frontrunners, you know, that everyone's talking about going into this conclave, and certainly Cardinal Tagle, Luis Tagle of the Philippines would be one of them. Cardinal Pietro Parolin, you know, the secretary of state under Pope Francis would be another. Cardinal Pierbattista Pizzaballa, if you can say that ten times fast.

BURNETT: It is a beautiful name. Pierbattista Pizzaballa.

ALLEN: I want him just for the name, you know?

But he's another one people have been talking about a lot just because of the role that he's had in a very difficult situation in Jerusalem, you know, for decades.

[19:20:01]

And he's navigated that situation with craft, you know, and he's done extraordinarily well in that position. So, he's another one getting a lot of looks.

But also coming up, you know, as you're saying, is Cardinal Prevost is starting to get a lot of attention simply because he's seen as so balanced.

BURNETT: Yes. It's going to be fascinating. Obviously born in Italy and moved to Jerusalem when he was only 25. So really a lifetime there. But young -- young by pope standards.

All right. Thank you both. And they're going to be with me of course, here for this very special week of coverage.

Next, we're going to take you to America's busiest port. We've been checking in on this port, right? This is where you're going to look for it. The canary in the coal mine on that Chinese trade. Well, guess what? Cargo traffic now down 35 percent just compared to

the exact same time a year ago. The trade war is the reason why. And we're going to tell you exactly what's happening on the ground. A special report, Einstein and Ives, also OUTFRONT next.

And also breaking this hour, a key Republican saying one of Trump's top nominees does not have the votes. So, is this the end of the road for Trump's pick for the absolutely crucial role of U.S. attorney in Washington, D.C.?

And breaking news tonight out of Kyiv, the mayor there saying Russia is firing missiles at the capital as we speak in these early hours of Wednesday morning.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:25:25]

BURNETT: Tonight, the Dow dropping as President Trump shows frustration over all of the talk about trade deals.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Everyone says when, when, when are you going to sign deals? We don't have to sign deals. We could sign 25 deals right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: So then why hasn't he signed those deals? I mean, it just doesn't add up. After all, he has been the one who has been bragging constantly about having a deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We have many, many countries that are coming to negotiate deals with us.

These countries are calling us up, kissing my ass. They are -- they are dying to make a deal. Please, please, sir, make a deal. I'll do anything. I'll do anything, sir.

Everybody wants to make a deal.

They're coming from all over the world to see your president. They want to make a deal.

They all want to negotiate. They want to make a deal.

I set the deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Well, everyone wants a deal, he says, but it has been more than a month since what Trump called liberation day. And there has not yet been a single deal.

In the meantime, it is clear Trump's tariff war is having a very real impact on the American economy and jobs.

Nick Watt is OUTFRONT to begin our coverage tonight. He is at the crucial port of Los Angeles tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Today, the busiest port in America isn't so busy anymore.

GENE SEROKA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, PORT OF LOS ANGELES: This week, were down about 35 percent compared to the same time last year. And these cargo ships coming in are the first ones to be attached to the tariffs that were levied against China and other locations last month.

SAL DICOSTANZO, INTERNATIONAL LONGSHORE AND WAREHOUSE UNION: Naturally, that's going to lead to less work.

WATT: So, we are looking at people losing money here?

DICOSTANZO: Oh yeah.

SEROKA: A trucker who last week was hauling about 4 or 5 containers a day, this week will likely haul just 2 or 3.

WATT: A stone's throw from the port sirens coffee shop, telling CNN that tariffs have already added 700 bucks to their weekly bill for beans and --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right to 80 percent of our clientele base are longshoremen.

WATT: Oh, really?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah. So ,they a lot of them come in here. We don't have anything happening in the port. It gets very quiet in here.

WATT: They've already seen their hours drop off.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, yes.

WATT: Fewer people coming in in the morning.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

WATT: Already?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

WATT: Port workers bracing for a hit similar to the recession of 2008.

And that recession. Did people lose their jobs?

DICOSTANZO: Yeah, I lost mine. WATT: This week, port officials say the number of ships coming in from

China is down 50 percent.

SEROKA: As far as we can see right now, this cargo volume will be light for the weeks and months ahead.

WATT: And Americans far and wide will feel it.

DICOSTANZO : There are 900,000 workers in southern California connected to the supply chain, and there are 9 million across the United States in all, 435 congressional districts that depend on what happens right here.

WATT: There's less coming in, also less going out. American agricultural exports are falling, according to the port.

SEROKA: In fact, Brazil sold more soybeans to China in the month of March than ever in their history.

WATT: Oh, because they're not coming from here.

SEROKA: That's right.

WATT: The Trump administrations rationale for these tariffs bring manufacturing jobs back to the U.S.

Folks around here aren't buying it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What jobs are you talking about? You're taking away jobs. Youve taken away all the jobs down at the dock. You're taking away jobs from my customers. So where is -- I don't see it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT (on camera): So how bad is this going to be? Well, the problem, Erin, is nobody really knows. What we do know is that were supposed to be 80 ships coming into this port during the month of May. 20 percent of them have already been canceled. We're already seeing cancellations going into June, but it really is unclear. And if you're in the shipping or the supply chain business, uncertainty, Erin, is a terrible, terrible thing.

And that's what people are feeling here right now. Back to you.

BURNETT: Yeah, it's a terrible thing. All right, Nick, its just such a so important to actually see it on the ground.

Dan Ives, Peter Tuchman are with me OUTFRONT.

And, Dan, so, you know, you hear nicks report. You see the chief, the busiest port in America, the port of Los Angeles. He tells Nick they're down 35 percent compared to the same time last year, and they can already see in advance. Right, because ships are already sailing. What you're going to see in June.

I mean, you have been following this data so closely, Dan. DAN IVES, GLOBAL HEAD OF TECHNOLOGY RESEARCH, WEDBUSH SECURITIES:

Well, Erin, it's everything that we've talked about on the whiteboard. I mean, the cargo doesn't lie.

[19:30:00]

And we're talking with down 40, 50, 60 percent in inventory, now that that runs out, the price increases, they're starting.

And you're going to see that continue to increase. And the fear is that does this actually cause -- when you think about the economy, you talk about recession, you talk about trade deals. And right now, it's all talk. Boy that cried wolf. No deal is on the table.

This is the reality, from GM to Mattel to Ford to the port of L.A., that's the reality.

PETER TUCHMAN, TRADER AT THE NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE: You know, Erin --

BURNETT: Peter, you know -- so Dan's talking about small businesses. Sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead.

TUCHMAN: No, no I just wanted to just you know, this is these are real numbers. Real people. Real, real, real problems. I mean, and this is just the beginning. You know, think about it, we're in the first couple of weeks of how -- how quickly this already has caused an interruption of the -- you know, I have a small story to tell that on my social media platform, a young man texted me he was a trucker. What they just talked about in your entry and he's trucking agricultural goods across the U.S.

And he said that he used to have to reserve a spot at the truck stop to sleep overnight for a month in advance, he said. And now those truck stops are basically almost half empty. Right? So that's -- these are this is reality, you know, and to see this reality this quickly, I -- you know, I feel almost its, you know, it's -- he's very flippant with the way he's talking about no deal this, no deal that. But the reality is people are going to eventually start losing jobs over this, as we say. And you know --

IVES: That's reality.

BURNETT: Peter, so, you know, the owner of that small family owned -- there's, you know, were talking about companies and what it means, you talk about the trucker. So there's a store called Rothmans. You both probably know it, right? Union Square in New York.

And the head of that store posted on LinkedIn today that they had just received their first tariff surcharge. So, it's a brand that they buy that's imported from China. It happens to be, I believe, an Italian brand. But the clothes come from China. So -- and they're all trying to work together.

So, the brand said, all right, well pay half of the 145 percent tariff. We'll pay half. But Rothmans the store. And then a man coming in to buy a suit or a suit jacket have to pay the other half. So they're now saying that $100 jacket, $100 jacket, Dan, is now $175. So that's -- that's real. This is the kind of hypothetical now that 100 jacket is 175.

IVES: But, Erin, is now it's not hypothetical, it's real. And that's what we've talked about, is that you're seeing the price increases come through. And that's -- and the cargo data.

Thats why for most U.S. consumers, you start to get into Memorial Day. Thats where the price shock is going to start.

TUCHMAN: Look, the last time we saw anything like this was COVID and there was a legitimate reason for what we had. And if you look at it -- the response by the federal reserve had to be putting $3 trillion into the market, printing money to be able to support us. And I'm a firm believer whether one likes Jay Powell or not, if we had not printed 3 trillion and put it into the market around the time of COVID, if we all remember people dying in the streets and the interruption of our lives, then we would have been on bread lines, surely within a few months.

And so, so quickly. We're not even a month into a post the day of liberation, and we're starting to see.

IVES: And it's small businesses --

TUCHMAN: -- one and it is. It doesn't seem like it was necessary. Why are they sort of pooh poohing making these deals?

Some of it is confidence that were now starting to erode, but some of its just the reality of people not going to be able to support what's going on.

BURNETT: I mean, Dan, they have been out talking about deals. I mean, Trump got annoyed today when he was asked about when there'd be a deal, sort of why is everyone pushing on this issue?

The reason people are pushing on this issue isn't just the dollars and cents that you're talking about, but this is now real. And then something that starts this way can, you know, domino effect into a very bad economic situation very fast.

It's also because they have been talking nonstop and telling us every, every day or every other day that they have a deal. I mean, we tried to put together the time because you guys have been talking about it. Let me play it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD LUTNICK, COMMERCE SECRETARY: I have a deal. Done, done, done, done.

KEVIN HASSETT, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL HEAD: I'm sure there'll be news by the end of the day.

TRUMP: At some point, in the next two weeks or three weeks, I'm going to be setting the deal.

SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARTY: I think we're very close to some deals.

I would think that perhaps as early as this week.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: I mean, Dan, and now, Bessent says he's going to meet with Chinese representatives later this week, but they're going to meet to discuss what they're going to talk about.

IVES: But, Erin, that's part of the problem. It goes to the boy that cried wolf. Market needs to see deal activity and what the deals look like. And ultimately, you're starting to see. I mean, obviously the market was up for nine straight days, but now you're starting to see the worries because what that really is going to do in terms of the economy, what the deals are going to look like, how this is all going to play out.

And I think that's the frustration now that's starting. And obviously Trump got frustrated. But markets basically saying, show us the deals.

[19:35:02]

You're playing cards? What you're -- what's your hand?

TUCHMAN: You know what? Look, what's the most frustrating thing is if we had not been talking about it. You know, it's like overdelivering -- underdelivering -- over expectations and underdelivering.

He's the one who's been -- he's the man. He's the -- he's the art of the deal. He's the guy who's been talking about these deals. And in a perfect example is today in the afternoon, they announced that they're going to start having trade talks with China on May 9th. And the markets response was incredible on the upside. That just shows us, the markets funny. You can't -- I guess you can't bully the market. But the market tells us what it thinks of this information.

The market is very reactive. We -- they're sitting on -- you know, on every -- on every little word that comes out, hoping for a deal to be made so that they can, you know --

IVES: Have some optimism.

TUCHMAN: Exactly.

BURNETT: Yeah. And the markets are used to being able to trust government officials in the U.S. to mean what they say and say what they mean, to take their word so seriously. So we'll see.

All right. Thank you both. And we'll see you tomorrow.

And next, the breaking news, Trump's pick for the top prosecutor in Washington, which is a crucial role is tonight in jeopardy. And the reason is a key Republican saying he does not have the votes for confirmation.

Plus, Putin inviting several American World War II veterans, Americans, to a major celebration in Moscow. What's going on?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:40:30]

BURNETT: Breaking news, Trump does not have the votes for one of his top nominees. Senate Judiciary Chairman Chuck Grassley admitting that he currently does not have the votes to move forward with Ed Martin's nomination to be U.S. attorney in Washington. This even after Trump had made calls, he had personally lobbied skeptical Republicans.

One of them, Senator Thom Tillis, has just announced today that he will not back Martin's nomination after a lot of reporting from our KFILE.

Paula Reid is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONENT (voice-over): Ed Martin, President Trump's controversial pick for D.C. U.S. attorney, appears unlikely to be confirmed after failing to garner support from a key GOP senator.

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): At this point, I've indicated to the White House I wouldn't support his nomination.

REID: North Carolina Republican Thom Tillis says he won't vote for Martin, even after meeting with him Monday, because of his support for January 6th defendants.

TILLIS: If Mr. Martin were being put forth as a U.S. attorney for any district except the district where January 6th happened, the protest happened, I'd probably support him, but not in this district.

REID: Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley acknowledged Tuesday that Martin doesn't have the votes, but says, I wouldn't say it's over until it's over. And the White House is fighting on issuing a statement that Martin is the right man for the job, and we look forward to his confirmation.

The president has personally called Republican lawmakers to generate support, but Martin has been one of Trump's most controversial nominees.

ED MARTIN, TRUMP NOMINEE: We're proud and we're happy that we finally have a president who is on the side of fighting back.

REID: He has been under scrutiny for having to update his mandated disclosures to Congress at least three times, after leaving off hundreds of media appearances from the past few years, including many hits on far right outlets.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our friend Ed Martin, thank you so much.

REID: And Russian state media.

MARTIN: We needed to be allies with nuclear powers like Russia.

REID: CNN also reviewed martins responses to the Senate Judiciary Committee and found several answers falling flat. Asked if he had ever equated a Democratic politician to Adolf Hitler, Martin wrote, I do not recall doing so.

But in October 2022, on an episode of his own podcast, he said this.

MARTIN: President Joe Biden is Hitler. And I am not joking when I say that.

REID: Martin has also drawn criticism for his praise of a Capitol rioter who is an alleged Nazi sympathizer, seen here presenting him an award.

MARTIN: He's an extraordinary man, extraordinary leader now.

REID: But Martin has since disavowed those views. He was a prominent supporter of Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election results, seen here holding a Stop the Steal sign, and has represented several January 6th defendants.

MARTIN: The due process that's at the heart of America has been denied to the individuals here.

REID: During his short tenure as acting U.S. attorney, Martin has raised eyebrows by referring to federal prosecutors as President Trump's lawyers and ordering the firing, demotion or reassignment of attorneys who worked on January 6th cases.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

REID (on camera): Now, Martin needs to be confirmed by May 20th. Thats when his appointment expires. Now, despite resistance from their own party and no clear path forward, the White House says this isn't over. And I'm told they are speaking with the justice department to try to find some other avenue to keep Martin in this critical job -- Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Paula, thank you very much. And such a crucial appointment.

And next, breaking news. Air raid sirens heard moments ago in Kyiv. Now, reports of attacks inside the capital from Putin.

Plus, we're going to take you inside the highly secretive conclave that's going to unfold just behind me starting in just a few hours. We're going to show you exactly what is going to take place during this nearly 800-year-old ritual.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:48:41] BURNETT: Breaking news, Kyiv under attack. Russia hitting the capital of Ukraine with missiles moments ago. Explosions shaking the city. This is according to the mayor of Kyiv. It comes as all airports in Moscow were forced to shut down for several hours after a Ukrainian drone attack.

And we are learning from the kremlin that several Americans, American World War II veterans, are headed to Moscow to attend Russia's victory day parade with the president, Vladimir Putin. It's unclear if any U.S. government officials will attend. What an incredible sentence to say.

Fred Pleitgen is in Moscow tonight, and he is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): A waltz for victory. Hundreds of young people in Moscow putting on a massive performance, dancing in Soviet military uniforms.

Honoring veterans of World War II who defeated Nazi Germany, while also showing support for Russian soldiers fighting now in what the kremlin calls its special military operation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We won in the big war and we can win in another war, of course.

PLEITGEN: I think we should support our fighters who are currently taking part in the special operation in any case, he says.

[19:50:02]

It's very important to support them. They are feeling the support.

And the Russians claim their troops are bringing the heat on nearly all front lines, making continuous gains in Eastern Ukraine in the past weeks, they say, while all but eliminating Kyiv's remaining forces still scattered in the western Russian-Kursk area.

They had no chance, the soldier says, as they tour a recaptured town. With U.S. President Donald Trump's initiative for a 30-day cease fire between Ukraine and Russia, seemingly stuck in a rut, even Russian state TV marveling at the chaos inside the Trump administration, speculating who the next national security adviser might be.

He named Stephen Miller as his favorite, the host says. According to Trump, the official already indirectly occupies this position. In the meantime, State Secretary Rubio is officially dealing with the tasks of the adviser. Such a consolidation of powers has not been seen since Henry Kissinger in the '70s.

But painting a very different picture of Vladimir Putin's leadership after the Russian president showed his private Kremlin quarters to a Russian state TV reporter for the first time, serving the typical Russian fermented buttermilk drink kefir. Is it a Russian product, the interviewer asks. Of course, Putin

answers. The Kremlin, saying it all shows how rock solid and stable Putin's approval is.

It's not kefir that's causing the stir, the Kremlin spokesman says it's probably the consolidation of the whole society. It's a manifestation of the consolidation around the president. It's the popularity of the president of our country and how attentively people treat the head of their state.

And one thing Putin is projecting is power. Putting on a show of force about Russia's past, while vowing not to be denied victory in the present.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PLEITGEN (on camera): However, Erin, the Russians are pretty concerned about what they say are these Ukrainian drone attacks. They say they took down more than 160 drones in the past day or so. All of this, of course, just hours before world leaders, including China's Xi Jinping, are set to arrive here in Moscow for the victory day celebrations -- Erin.

BURNETT: It'll be absolutely crucial to see what happens and the interactions between Putin and Xi Jinping. Thanks so much to you, Fred, in Moscow.

And next here in Vatican City, we're going to take you inside the secretive conclave to show you how this vote for the next pope will take place.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:56:59]

BURNETT: Finally, tonight in just about eight hours behind me, the 133 cardinals will meet for mass before the conclave begins. We've got this video just into OUTFRONT, and it shows the American cardinals together before making their way to the Vatican. Here, they were just hours, hours ago.

Now, there has never been an American pope. There is growing buzz that Cardinal Robert Prevost, a native of Chicago, is a long shot contender. We'll see, of course. But what's going to happen behind us is so fascinating.

And Boris Sanchez tonight has this special report on what really is about to go down.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The secretive process for voting for a new pope all happens here inside the Sistine Chapel. After the death of Pope Francis, the Catholic Church must choose a new pope in a process called a conclave. On Wednesday, the conclave begins with a mass for the cardinals in St.

Peter's Basilica, and after the mass, the cardinals will gather in the Pauline Chapel.

Then the voting members of the College of Cardinals, those under the age of 80, will enter the famous Sistine Chapel, the lowest ranking cardinal first. The highest ranking cardinal last.

Inside, each cardinal takes the conclave oath, part of a vow of secrecy under penalty of excommunication. The Sistine Chapel is then placed under a total lockdown, including cell blockers installed in 2013 that prevent any calls, texts or Internet access.

Nine cardinals are then chosen at random to perform specific roles in each voting session. These three are the scrutineers who oversee the voting. There are also three revisers who verify the results, and finally three infirmary leave the chapel to collect votes from any sick cardinals.

Next, the vote. Vatican law specifies the ballots be rectangular paper bearing on the upper half the words "Eligo in Summum Pontificum," or I elect as the supreme pontiff.

The cardinal then writes his choice for pope on the lower half, folding the ballot twice, then highest ranking cardinals, first, they carry the ballots to the altar, holding it in their hand like this, so that it can be seen.

Each cardinal then places the ballot on a receptacle covered by a plate that sits in front of the three scrutineers.

After all the cardinals have cast their votes, the scrutineers add them up and the totals are checked by the revisers. The names are then read aloud for all the cardinals to hear, and then a scrutineer pierces the ballot with a needle threaded with red string through the word Eligo or "I elect", and secures it to the rest of the votes.

As many as four votes a day can take place, two in the morning and two in the evening. A candidate must receive more than a two thirds majority to be elected pope.

Next, the ballots are taken to stoves in the back of the Sistine Chapel. The stove has an electronic device that adds chemicals to alter the color of the smoke. The color of the smoke from these ballots is the only indication to the outside world of whether a new pope has been chosen. Black smoke means that no candidate has received a two thirds majority, and a pope has yet to be picked.

White smoke means that the cardinals have come to a consensus, and the pope has been chosen.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT: And I'll be here tomorrow, starting just before 4:00 in the morning and throughout the day. And of course, here on OUTFRONT tomorrow night for live coverage of this historic conclave. Thanks so much for joining us.

"AC360" begins now.