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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump At War With Harvard, Threatens Wider Crackdown; NYT: Several Guests At Trump Memecoin Dinner Say They Attended The Event With The Intent Of Influencing Trump; Apple Loses $92 Billion In Value After Trump Threatens 25 Percent Tariff. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired May 23, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:20]
ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Trump putting universities across the country on notice, saying they like Harvard could be targeted. This, as one brave college president is OUTFRONT tonight to say what's happening here isn't right.
Plus, new details about what happened behind closed doors at Trump's crypto dinner. As we learn more about the Chinese billionaire who says he is the top holder of Trump's meme coin. Just who is Justin Sun and why was he once facing civil fraud charges here in the U.S.?
Plus, Trump's tirade war ramping up. Trade war, rather. The markets sliding as Apple loses more than $90 billion in a single day. Einstein and Ives are here.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening. I'm Erica Hill, in tonight for Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, Trump's crackdown, what began as an order to bar Harvard from enrolling international students may soon reach far beyond that one campus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Are you considering stopping other universities besides Harvard from accepting foreign students?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, we're taking a look at a lot of things. And as you know, billions of dollars has been paid to Harvard. How ridiculous is that? Harvard is going to have to change its ways.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Trump's plans facing a legal setback, though tonight. A federal judge has now temporarily blocked the government from enforcing the ban on international students. They make up more than a quarter of Harvard's student body.
In a scathing lawsuit, Harvard calling the Trump administrations move, quote, arbitrary, capricious, unlawful and unconstitutional.
Trump claims the move is to protect students. The letter from Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem, reading in part, quote, this administration is holding Harvard accountable for fostering violence, antisemitism and coordinating with the Chinese communist party on its campus. Noem also making it clear Harvard is not the only target.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTI NOEM, DHS SECRETARY: Get your act together, because we are coming to make sure that these programs that you are facilitating an environment where students can learn where they're safe and that they're not discriminated against based on their race or their religion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Prior to this latest push, of course, the funding at multiple universities was already in jeopardy. In addition to Harvard, Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Northwestern, the University of Pennsylvania, Princeton, and dozens of other schools have been under scrutiny by the administration.
Democratic Congressman Stephen Lynch, whose district includes Harvard, is now sounding the alarm.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. STEPHEN LYNCH (D-MA): It will take years, maybe decades, to repair the damage that that Donald Trump and that group of morons and buffoons is doing to this country each and every day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Jason Carroll is OUTFRONT live at Harvard University tonight.
So, Jason, I know you've been speaking with a number of students there on campus all day. What are they telling you about this latest move?
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erica, look, it has been a rough 24 hours for international students here on campus at Harvard. When you imagine how many here are affected, more than 6,800 international students here. So, this is affecting thousands of people. And quite frankly, Erica, many of them simply don't know what they're going to do next.
I mean, do you stay and hope that the courts eventually side with Harvard, or do you just pack everything up, pack up your dreams and leave? I mean, these are some of the tough choices that many of the students that we've spoken to are having to face.
I want you to listen to just a small sampling of some of those we spoke to today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ABDULLAH SHAHID SIAL, HARVARD STUDENT BODY CO-PRESIDENT, FROM PAKISTAN: At least 7,000 individuals at Harvard right now who again represent the absolute best of their own respective countries. And now they're being tossed around between the Harvard administration, the Trump administration. I spoke with Chips as negotiating tools where they're not seen as individuals, as people.
GENIA LUKIN, HARVARD STUDENT FROM ISRAEL: I think everybody is kind of considering at least some amount of probability that were going to be looking at a situation where we either have to very quickly find an alternative or leave.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARROLL: So, Erica, you heard it there. Some students having to make some agonizing choices and some just not sure if they're going to be back in the fall. I should also tell you, I spoke to a professor here at Harvard who laid it out this way. He said that a lot of students have been coming to him looking for advice, looking for some sort of guidance. And he looked at me and he said, look, at this point, I can't look at them in the eyes with confidence and tell them specifically what they should do.
So, it is really a dire situation and a huge development for folks here at Harvard looking to see what happens next -- Erica.
HILL: It really is. Jason Carroll live for us in Cambridge tonight, appreciate it. Thank you.
OUTFRONT now, Michael Roth, he's the president of Wesleyan University.
[19:05:01]
It's good to have you with us tonight.
So, both the president and Secretary Noem have said that this is a warning, actually, to other schools, these actions taken at Harvard. Do you believe Wesleyan could be a target? How concerned are you tonight?
MICHAEL ROTH, PRESIDENT, WESLEYAN UNIVERSITY: I am very concerned. I'm not just concerned about Wesleyan. I'm concerned about all colleges and universities in the United States, even high schools that accept students from around the world because America has the freedom of inquiry and freedom of research and expression that is attractive to talented students from all over the world. And it's a mystery to me why the administration would want to take on such a successful aspect of the American economy and the American culture.
But I guess what they want to do is make everybody a little afraid that if they don't follow the leader's views, that they're going to be in trouble and that they can be attacked via their students or via their research funding. So I'm afraid not just for Wesleyan, but for the fate of colleges and universities and of freedom in the civil society. HILL: You know, to that point, you have been one of the most vocal, if
not the most vocal critics of some of these moves by the Trump administration targeting universities. Why take that risk?
ROTH: Well, I think I'm just saying the things that most Americans believe that is that you should have the freedom to pursue your profession. If you're working in a university or working anywhere else. If you're a journalist, you should be free to publish the things you want to publish and do the kinds of inquiry you are paid to do.
These are basic American freedoms, and I think I'm just saying the obvious things that Americans have said for since the founding, really, which is that the federal government, especially the executive branch, shouldn't tell people what to think or how to teach or what to learn, just like they shouldn't tell people where to go to church or where to go to the store. And this notion that the executive branch could push people around just because it has the power to do so, has been already labeled by judges as lawless, as overreaching.
And I think we have to speak out against it if we value our freedoms.
HILL: Do -- federal funding, as I understand it, accounts for about 7 percent. The federal funding, that you have about 7 percent of your budget at Wesleyan. I know you've lost some federal funding. Do you believe those cuts are in any way tied to your speaking out?
ROTH: I don't I think the cuts that have happened at Wesleyan and they've happened all over the country are misguided cuts. They -- people get letters saying the grant that you were awarded to do work, that we've engaged you to do no longer fits the priorities of the administration. Thats the letter that people have been getting from the Trump administration.
But people have gotten that all over the country, whether their presidents have spoken out or not. And so, I think that the fear to speak out is really unfortunate, because I think if we value our freedoms, as I do, and I think many of my colleagues value their freedoms, we should say we do. We -- I'm not saying anything that that Trump wasn't elected president or he doesn't have a mandate. I'm not saying anything like that.
He was elected and he does have the power to do certain things within the law. But that does not mean that the president gets to have everybody bend the knee to the White House. It doesn't mean that they get to control what we think and how we do research.
HILL: Part of what the administration has said when it comes to a lot of the moves that have been made and specifically in higher education. I'm thinking specifically of Columbia and Harvard. The administration has said this is part of an effort to combat antisemitism. You're the first Jewish president of Wesleyan University.
Do you believe these efforts are having a meaningful impact on the way schools are dealing with anti-Jewish hate on campus?
ROTH: I do not I think that this is a bogus reason has nothing to do with curbing Jewish hate. Hatred of Jews is real. We saw these poor kids gunned down yesterday, not because they work at the Israeli embassy or anything. That's nonsense. They were gunned down because they were at a Jewish event.
Antisemitism is real and its violent in America, but it's not confined to college campuses. Colleges and universities can be places where Jews, Christians, Muslims get along reasonably well. And we have to make sure that they -- that it never degenerates into the kind of violence we see elsewhere in the country.
But I think this reason reasoning about antisemitism is bogus. And you see this in the department of education's letter to Harvard cutting other funding. They don't mention anything about antisemitism or Jews. So I think that's a subterfuge to try to get more control over what happens at a -- on a campus.
HILL: Before I let you go, Wesleyans' graduation is this weekend. How have the events of the last couple of months changed your message to the class of 2025, if at all?
ROTH: Well, I -- I give a speech every year and I'm going to speak about American freedom on Sunday. I'm going to speak about how free speech is a vital ingredient of American life.
[19:10:02]
And free speech depends on the diversity of views that you hear, being a good listener, it depends on inclusion. It depends on fairness.
The very things that are under attack, free speech, diversity, inclusion, equity these things are under attack. We need to protect them from people who want to ban books and control our lives. We need to defend our freedoms, because if we don't, they'll be taken away. And that's the message I'll give on Sunday.
HILL: Michael Roth, really appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.
ROTH: Thank you very much.
HILL: OUTFRONT now, Democratic Congressman Jamie Raskin, he is the ranking member of the House Judiciary Committee and an expert in constitutional law.
You are also, Congressman, a Harvard alum. It's good to have you with us tonight.
Harvard has called this latest move by the administration unlawful. The federal government, though, does get to decide who is approved for a student visa.
So, while they may believe it's unlawful, do you believe it's actually illegal?
REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): Well, it's definitely unconstitutional because it was in retaliation for Harvard rejecting the last round of unconstitutional attacks on its autonomy. When Donald Trump essentially said that the federal government of the United States was going to take over their admissions process, take over their faculty hiring process, take over their curriculum, Harvard just said, that's a bridge too far. No way.
And they stood up. And that's something that was cheered by colleges and universities across the country to have the oldest and the wealthiest universities saying that they were going to use their resources to reject that. But then in return, Donald Trump is trying to exact vengeance and retaliation again by taking it out on 7,000 students from other countries, forcing them to completely change their plans, turning their lives upside down and stripping Harvard of a quarter of its students.
So, I was not surprised at all that a federal district court in Boston entered a temporary restraining order. On the way to the argument about a preliminary injunction. But this is a completely lawless situation. The administration doesn't get to control higher education in America and tell colleges and universities what to do. They don't get to control newspaper entities and TV networks the way Donald Trump has been trying to do. And they don't get to control law firms or any other private entity, but they're trying to move us into an authoritarian situation so he can continue to embark upon his corruption tour of the world.
I mean, the guy has made more than $1 billion a month since this started. And incidentally, last night had all of these people who are participating in his new crypto scam. They each gave more than $1 million to get to go to dinner with the president and to rub elbows with -- you know, the power brokers in Washington. And a lot of those people were neo-Nazis and antisemites who bought their way in, too.
So obviously, invoking antisemitism is purely a distraction and a pretext for his desire to take over higher education in the country.
HILL: I should point out we do not have that reporting at CNN in terms of the exact makeup and their beliefs of the people who were at that dinner. I do know there are a number of questions about the dinner. We're actually getting into that a little bit later in the show.
When we look at what is happening, though, with Harvard, as you point out, right,, so, this was obviously challenged. Hearing is now set for Thursday. The reality is this could be yet another issue that ends up winding its way through the courts.
And I was struck recently by some comments just earlier this week from Vice President Vance when he was speaking with "The New York Times", and they were talking about the power of the judicial branch. Take a listen to this exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I saw an interview with Justice Roberts, Chief Justice Roberts, recently, where he said --
CHIEF JUSTICE JOHN ROBERTS, U.S. SUPREME COURT: Its job is to, obviously decide cases. But in the course of that, check the excesses of congress or of the executive, and that does require a degree of independence.
VANCE: The role of the court is to check the excesses of the executive. I thought that was a profoundly wrong sentiment. That's one half of his job. The other half of his job is to check the excesses of his own branch.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Do you agree that the Supreme Court, as the vice president said, needs to -- essentially, he's saying they need to step up their efforts in terms of checking their own excesses?
RASKIN: Well, look, I think that J.D. Vance's Yale Law School education was completely wasted on him. I mean, you go back to 1803 and Marbury versus Madison, Chief Justice Marshall said its emphatically the province and the duty of the judicial department and the Supreme Court to say what the law is. That's the role of the Supreme Court.
So, if anybody violates the law, it could be a state, a county, Congress, the president, the role of the court is to state what the law is and then to enjoin the unconstitutionality. That's not that complicated. Americans understand that.
And J.D. Vance is just engaged in smoke and mirrors ever since he said that Donald Trump somehow gets to define what the law is for Article Two.
[19:15:04]
I think not -- and that's not something that any of the Republicans believe during the Biden administration, when they were bringing lawsuits, you know, on a weekly or monthly basis to try to strike down everything that Joe Biden was doing in terms of climate policy, in terms of forgiving student loans, you know, how soon they forget.
But in any event, that's clearly the role of the judicial department. And there's a record number of injunctions that have been entered against the lawlessness in the chaos of this administration. It's now more than 160 preliminary injunctions and temporary restraining orders. American history has never seen anything like this, because we've got a completely lawless executive branch that wants to take over all of the institutions of society.
That's not their role. And that's got nothing to do with conservatism, by the way. That's authoritarianism. That's something completely different. And nobody voted for that.
They wanted to bring the price of eggs down and the price of eggs have gone up, and the price of Eggs Benedict is just intolerable. We cannot have them betraying the basic institutions and documents of the country, like the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
HILL: Congressman Jamie Raskin, appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.
RASKIN: You bet.
HILL: OUTFRONT next, who is the Chinese crypto billionaire who had dinner with Trump last night and says he's the top holder of Trump's meme coin. And why was he, until very recently facing civil fraud charges?
Plus, Trump's hopes for a breakthrough with Iran now on the cusp of falling apart as Iran turns on Trump's top negotiator. We are on the ground in Iran.
And Billy Joel fans tonight in shock after the singer cancels his tour because of a serious new health issue.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:21:08]
HILL: Tonight, new details about the crypto dinner Trump didn't want the world to see. "The New York Times" reporting that, quote, several of the dinner guests in interviews with "The New York Times" said that they attended the event with the explicit intent of influencing Mr. Trump and U.S. financial regulations.
Let that sink in for a minute. The black-tie dinner was a special reward for the top 220 holders of the president's personal meme coin. Among the attendees, Justin Sun, a Chinese born crypto billionaire who happens to be the top holder of the president's personal meme coin. The 34-year-old millennial mogul was also, until recently, facing civil fraud charges in the United States.
CNN's Jeff Zeleny is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A winning night for crypto billionaires and for Donald Trump. A rare look tonight inside the private black tie dinner with President Trump and more than 200 wealthy investors at the Trump national golf club near Washington. It was closed to the public and press, but wide open to those investing hundreds of millions of dollars in the Trump family's cryptocurrency accounts.
One guest of honor, Justin Sun, a Chinese crypto billionaire and one of Trump's best customers, showing off his prize of a $100,000 watch. On X, he wrote: As the top holder of Trump, I'm excited to connect with everyone, talk crypto, and discuss the future of our industry.
TRUMP: What a nice place. Did you get to see the helicopter?
ZELENY: The investors, many of whom flew to Washington from outside the country, dined on Trump organic filled green salad, filet mignon and pan seared halibut, followed by warm lava cake. U.S. law prohibits foreign nationals from making political contributions, but no such rules apply to crypto investments. For some, it's the latest act of a high-flying life, well-documented
on social media. He's perhaps best known for a $6 million banana duct taped to a wall, which he bought and ate. Two years ago during the Biden administration, the Securities and Exchange Commission charged Sun with fraud and market manipulation. After Trump returned to office, the legal action was paused.
Sun's publicity stunts include paying $4.6 million for a charity lunch with Warren Buffett, before canceling at the last minute. He ponied up $28 million for a seat on one of Blue Origin's first manned space flights, but canceled that, too.
Sun holds more than $20 million in the Trump meme coin, and invested $75 million in World Liberty Financial, a Trump family crypto company.
The White House did not release a list of guests, saying it was a private dinner and the president was attending in his personal time.
Nicholas Pinto, a social media influencer and investor, was among those posting videos.
NICHOLAS PINTO, SOCIAL MEDIA INFLUENCER: There's a leaderboard here, so I get to see what I see online in person. I found myself and I just signed it.
ZELENY: Amid an outcry of protests and accusations of corruption, the White House defended the event.
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president is abiding by all conflict of interest laws that are applicable to the president. It's absurd for anyone to insinuate that this president is profiting off of the presidency.
ZELENY: Yet that's precisely what the dinner was intended to do, benefit the president rather than the GOP or a political committee. Like most fundraising dinners do.
DEMONSTRATORS: Fund our kids.
ZELENY: Democrats called the dinner a major conflict of interest.
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): In effect, he's putting a "for sale" sign on the White House. It is truly putting this president on a Mount Rushmore of corruption.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZELENY (on camera): Now, for all the black tie dinners that all presidents hold, Erica, this one was extraordinarily different. We have never seen one like this because it benefited the president's business personally, as well as his golf club, of course, just outside Washington.
But Justin Sun, for his account, was afraid to come to the U.S. for years for fear of being arrested.
[19:25:01]
But today, I'm told he arrived here for a private tour at the White House -- Erica.
HILL: That is quite a shift, is it not?
Jeff Zeleny, appreciate it. Thank you.
OUTFRONT now, David Urban, former Trump campaign adviser, and Lulu Garcia-Navarro, "New York Times" podcast host.
So, David, full disclosure, you are on the Coinbase global advisory board. I know you're pro-crypto. Let's look though at beyond the crypto right. Should the president be embracing people like Justin Sun?
As Jeff just reported, he was afraid to come to the country. Fast forward to today. He's getting a private tour of the White House. This is a Chinese billionaire who has invested tens of millions of into Trump coins, and until recently, again was facing civil fraud charges.
DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Erica, I don't like it, right? I don't like it at all. I don't like when members of Congress benefit off their trades. I don't think, you know, political figures, whether you're president of the United States, or a House member or Senate staffer should be, you know, benefiting off the markets. And so, I don't like it at all. I think it's a major distraction from real legislation that's being taken, you know, taken up in the Senate and moving forward.
So, no, I think it's a distraction. And it was, you know, something the president probably shouldn't have done.
HILL: We also heard, you know, from this reporting from "The Times" that a number of the attendees told the times they attended, and I'm quoting here with the explicit intent of influencing Mr. Trump and U.S. financial regulations.
You look at that. I mean, having been an advisor, who does President Trump listen to in a moment like this? Is there anyone around him who could say, hey, this is a really bad look?
URBAN: Yeah, I'm not quite sure, Erica. You know, I noted some of the -- some of the members on the Senate and the House who are who are working towards, you know, real reform on crypto legislation, the Genius Act and other things. They said -- they noted it was a distraction as well.
So, I'm not quite sure who he listened to on this one. If he was listening to me, I would have said, stay away, because it's really damaged some real work that was being done in the industry and for the industry.
HILL: Lulu, when we look at this former Chicago mayor and 2028 presidential prospect, perhaps Rahm Emanuel warning his fellow Democrats, and I'm quoting here: If we want to win, we need to narrow our critique, to set aside Trump's crypto schemes and his solicitation of Qatar's, quote, free plane. Those are baked into the electorates deep seated cynicism, going on to say Trump's agenda is unchecked and out of control. We need to hound that narrative until it becomes the essential question animating voters casting ballots in November next year.
Do you see any evidence of Dems broadly embracing that, Lulu?
LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: No. I think part of the problem with Democrats is that they're constantly playing defense to what the president is doing on any given day. The president is really pushing the agenda of what Democrats are asked to talk about, and that leaves them in the position of not being able to speak to what they want, what agenda they're pushing, what alternatives they're proposing.
And so, you know, were hearing this a lot from Democrats. Don't get distracted, you know, focus on what matters, what matters to the American people, which is their pocketbooks. Unfortunately, when you have things like this crypto event, I mean, this really speaks to a very worrying thing that for many people in this country, which is like, are people coming here and trying to buy something that's basically valueless to put money into Donald Trump's pocket so they can get something in return?
I mean, this is the president of the United States. And so, it raises many ethical and moral questions. And so, I think in this particular case, Democrats are right to talk about it.
HILL: President Trump also formally announcing today, quote, magnificent parade to honor the United States Army's 250th birthday on Saturday, June 14th, of course, is set to happen in the nation's capital. June 14th is also Pesident Trump's 79th birthday.
David, you are, of course, are an Army veteran. You're a West Point grad. These parades, I think most people in the country are totally fine with celebrating the 250th anniversary of the U.S. Army. There are questions, though, about the display itself. These types of military might parades. They are not a typically American event.
Does it concern you at all?
URBAN: Erica, let me just tell you this. And I have zero concerns about this parade. I am a huge supporter of this parade. I think for once, once every 250 years, we can blow it out for the men and women who've served in uniform in the U.S. Army.
This -- the U.S. Army was created by the Continental Congress June 14th, 1775. Since then, we haven't had a party. Okay, so, let's have a big blowout and thank all the men and women that serve in uniform to keep our country free, strong and safe.
This has nothing to do with Donald Trump. He didn't ask for it. I've been -- I've been talking to the army about this for quite some time. Long before Donald Trump was elected.
And so, I'm all for it. I think it's a great use of money. [19:30:01]
I think the American people should stand proud, salute. They're going to reenlist soldiers. It is a great thing and America should celebrate it.
HILL: David, question for you. You said you've been working on the planning here, that Donald Trump never -- you said the president never asked for this. He has been very clear that he wanted exactly this. He wanted a giant military parade.
URBAN: Erica, I don't know this but I can tell you this -- this parade had nothing to do with Donald Trump's birthday or nothing to do with Donald Trump's asking. The U.S. Army planned on having a celebration and having a parade and celebrating its 250th birthday. It is a big deal for the U.S. Army. It should be a big deal for all Americans.
Take a minute. Come to D.C. if you can. Celebrate the Army. Lots of men and women have laid their life down on the on the altar of freedom so that we could be here today and have this debate. Lulu and I could disagree, and we could talk about all these things. So, let's celebrate the Army on the 14th.
HILL: Lulu, do you believe that there -- there is this separation there, that this doesnt have anything to do with the president? Is David right?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I mean, I think reporting has shown that the president did want a parade, and he wanted it for himself. Obviously, it's not just the 250th anniversary of the Army, which is, of course, a wonderful event. It's also Donald Trump's birthday. Those things are now being conflated, which I think is worrying to people.
The other thing that I think is worrying to people is that the, you know, United States military, quite rightly, has never been used as a sort of advertisement, right? It's considered the sacred institution in American life. Other countries like Russia, China, North Korea, Belarus, Pakistan, they have these big military parades.
But a country that has is the most important military in the world. It often doesn't feel the need to sort of swing its big guns, if you will. To sort of show that it's powerful. It's chosen to sort of use its might when it matters.
URBAN: Yeah, but I disagree. So, Erica, just right now, if you go down the street in New York City, there ships docked, its fleet week in New York, and many big Navy ships come under the Verrazzano-Narrows Bridge. And they have a huge display of --
GARCIA-NAVARRO: It's a big event every weekend, absolutely.
URBAN: -- military force. Every week --
HILL: Every memorial -- every Memorial Day -- it is Memorial Day on Monday. It is a time to remember those who did make the ultimate sacrifice. But it's also okay if there are some questions. Lulu, David, appreciate you both joining us tonight. We're going to
leave it there. Thank you.
OUTFRONT next, Trump taking on America's cell phones now threatening to hit just about every new phone sold in the U.S. with another tariff. Ives and Einstein are next.
Plus, it is considered a historical treasure by many when it played a major role in the fight against slavery. So why does the Trump administration -- why is it slashing the funding?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How is the fight against slavery not in the interest of the United States?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:37:24]
HILL: Tonight, Trump waging war on the phone. Companies threatening to slap a 25 percent tariff on all smartphones manufactured outside the U.S. after initially targeting only Apple for its overseas supply chain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Would be also Samsung and anybody that makes that product. Otherwise, it wouldn't be fair. When they build their plant here, there's no tariff. So, they're going to be building plants here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Apple losing roughly $92 billion in value today on that news. Trump also saying he's not looking to make a trade deal with Europe after, of course, threatening a 50 percent tariff on all E.U. goods, set to go into effect in nine days.
All of this sparking a major selloff on Wall Street today.
OUTFRONT now, you know them well. Peter Tuchman and Dan Ives.
Nice to see you both in person tonight.
So, when we look at this, Dan, I know you've done the math here, right? You've done the math on not only the cost of the iPhone, but the very real timeline of what it would mean if apple was actually able to shift all of its production to the U.S. what are we looking at?
DAN IVES, GLOBAL HEAD OF TECHNOLOGY RESEARCH, WEDBUSH SECURITIES: So look, this is a fairy tale that ultimately Apple could bring iPhone production to the U.S. because we've said if you actually produced iPhones in the U.S., it would ultimately take 4 to 5 years and probably $20 billion just to get 10 percent of the supply chain to come to the U.S. and what that means, $3,500 iPhone and that look and that speaks.
And Tuchman and I've been talking about for weeks, is that the reality is that you could talk about this, but it's a fairy tale that you could actually get iPhone production to the U.S. India is where Apple went. That was a smart strategy, but now you're starting to see companies go around there because they know the reality. And the reality you cannot produce at scale in the U.S.
HILL: Right. So they're finding those workarounds.
So, in terms of the impact that we saw today on Wall Street, a 3 percent hit to Apple stock after this announcement, the markets all closing down today. Is that about a reaction to what happened with Apple and smartphones in the comments from the president today, is it a reaction to this warning floating 50 percent tariffs or is it everything at once?
PETER TUCHMAN, TRADER AT THE NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE: You know what? I think it's a bit of a flashback for everybody to what the trauma that we experienced back from February 19th down into the bowels of April, right? I mean, that was -- that was a -- what we called a economic vandalism, right? And it was almost, you know, people really were traumatized by it.
I know that the markets recovered, and that's wonderful, and I'm happy about that. We've been able to get back a lot of the loss from Independence Day -- Independence Day? Was that what it was called? Liberation Day. Sorry.
[19:40:00]
And however, the market is, is still reeling off of that and people's fears about feeling, you know, that hundred and 401k became 201k, and there was that short period of time. And even though the numbers in the indices have regained some of their value, a lot of the stocks and a lot of the image and a lot of that, even like Ken Griffin said, that we've lost that -- it's eroded that brand America by America concept.
And so, I think today when we woke up this morning and it was this sort of swath that were going after the E.U. and, you know, and it's not like they came at it with, we've got a plan were going to address tariffs. The discrepancies with the U.S. and Europe, let's talk about it.
It was like I'm doing this and, you know, and that brought back the -- PTSD almost to it.
HILL: Well, but so what we'll hear, right? What you will often hear from the president and those around him. And we've heard from years. Well, that's because that's you know, that's part of his negotiating tactic. He's got to keep everybody on their toes. You can't know what's coming next. I'm just throwing it out there.
But is there starting -- are we starting to reach a saturation point? Is it becoming the boy who cried wolf?
IVES: Well, look, I mean, and we've -- and we've talked about the boy who cried wolf.
But look, I think the bigger issue it comes down to if you're a company, you're Apple, you're -- or you're a retail company, how are you planning in this environment.
HILL: You can't.
IVES: So now you're getting down. It's what we've been talking about. Now you're getting down to the reality -- and for companies, companies can't get bullied because companies be like, okay, what? How do I go about my business? What's the best thing?
And that's why what Peter's talking about is that to just come out Friday and be like 25 percent tariff, 50 percent tariff in the -- look, that's part of the market reaction. You're starting to see it wear thin.
HILL: So if it's wearing thin, is the president and the United States -- are you talking about the brand erosion? Is he also -- I mean, starting to lose patience, but also, is he -- is he losing leverage at this point? I mean, what's left if there's this constant -- this is constantly what you're getting.
TUCHMAN: Yeah. And that's a really hard thing to know. Who is in his in, in his court still who is not. You know, how we had -- what's left us in a little bit of a paradox is that the market, even in the eyes of not a lot of deals like we did, have somewhat of a deal with China, but that was more like a one off, right? I mean, think about it. Do we know anything really more than we did on liberation day? No, we don't. We don't know any particulars.
And yet the market rallied. And so, people are not really clear about that. I think it was you know, also the president told everybody to buy the market. So, we know that.
But I think were, were everybody is confused. And I'm not sure, you know, what I've seen. I analyzed the market on a day-to-day basis, right, sort of the forensics. And what we've seen over the last three days was the market had nice intraday reversals. We opened down on Monday due to the Moody's downgrade. Right? But we have -- we had a beautiful rally into the day.
But each day, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, in the last 20 minutes of trading, we sold the market off hard. That to me meant that people have no confidence that tomorrow is not going to be what happened today, that they -- we don't know what the next, you know, we're one tweet away from crazy.
IVES: Right? And I think exactly like he's saying, you don't know what's coming ahead. And that's why --
TUCHMAN: How do you position yourself.
HILL: We're stuck with the one constant right which everybody can agree on at this point. And that's the uncertainty.
TUCHMAN: The uncertainty. And market can't handle that at all.
HILL: Nice to see you both.
TUCHMAN: Thank you. Thank you.
HILL: OUTFRONT next:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We will teach our children to love our country, to honor our history.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: So, then, why is the Trump administration now slashing funds for museums that tell that history, America's story?
Plus, chants of death to America now echoing across Iran as Trump's crucial talks with that nation appear to be on the cusp of breaking down. We'll take you to Tehran.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:43:17]
HILL: Breaking news: no trust. That's what one Iranian official tells our Fred Pleitgen about talks with the U.S. President Trump's hopes of a breakthrough with Iran are in danger, as the Iranians aren't even happy with his chief negotiator, Steve Witkoff.
Fred Pleitgen is OUTFRONT in Tehran.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Death to America and death to Israel chants at Friday prayers in Tehran.
The prayer leader laying into the Trump administration as the U.S. Iran nuclear talks hang in the balance.
Iran's leadership is telling the United States that they want a nuclear agreement but they're also not afraid of a confrontation if the talks fail.
Tehran not happy with both President Trump and his chief negotiator, Steve Witkoff, after Witkoff said the U.S. wouldn't allow Iran to continue enriching uranium as part of any deal.
No way. There is no trust, this member of the elite Revolutionary Guard corps tells me they failed their previous tests towards the Iranian nation. However, we have initiated the talks to prove our intention is not war. We want the enrichment for medical and other purposes. The negotiations are unilateral, this woman says. Trump is trying to
show his power, but it is our right to have nuclear capabilities.
Iran has consistently said its nuclear program is purely civilian in nature, and Tehran insists on keeping its uranium enrichment capabilities. Iran's foreign minister, acknowledging the talks are complicated.
We stressed the positions and principles of the Islamic Republic of Iran regarding the negotiations, he says. Our positions are completely clear and we insist on them. I think the American side now has a better and more clear picture of our position.
[19:50:02]
President Trump is threatening even tougher measures against Iran if the talks fail. And American officials tell CNN intelligence suggests Israel is preparing for strikes against targets in Iran.
Iranians we spoke to are vowing a tough response if that happens.
The United States knows better what will happen, he says. If things get serious, there will not be a country named Israel on earth. But for now, both sides say they're gearing up for the next round of talks, trying to forge a new nuclear deal.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PLEITGEN: And, Erica, of course, the U.S. saying that progress continues to be made, but there is still work to be done. Of course, for the Iranians, that main sticking point remains uranium enrichment. That is something where they say it is their right, and they're not going to walk back from that -- Erica.
HILL: Fred, appreciate the reporting tonight. Thank you.
Up next here, museums that tell Americas history could soon be history themselves. We'll tell you why.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:55:43]
HILL: Tonight, it no longer serves Americas interests. That was the justification given for slashing funding to what many consider a historical treasure a 200-year-old building where renowned abolitionist Frederick Douglass once held crucial meetings.
Sunlen Serfaty is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good morning. SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For more than six
decades, Boston's Museum of African American History has been a connection to the past, inspiring students like seventh grader Excel Alabi (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I realized that, like so many people have fought for us, fought for our freedom.
SERFATY: The museum is a 200-year-old African meeting house where former slaves and abolitionists like Frederick Douglass once spoke.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel it. Seeing it like in person, better than seeing it on screen or on paper.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You get to touch history and engage with history.
SERFATY: But school programs like this 1st may themselves soon be history, after the Trump administration sent the museum's CEO a letter saying its grants, quote, no longer serves the interests of the United States.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I will forever remember that line. How is the fight against slavery, a conflict that literally affected everything from the writing of the declaration to the Constitution through the civil war? That literally divided the country and us not offering a perspective on that story, not in the interest of the United States?
SERFATY: In April, the museum's $500,000 grant from the federal government was abruptly canceled, money which was supposed to be used for school field trips and educational programs. And it didn't end there. Corporate support started drying up after Trump took office, which the museum blames on anti-DEI sentiment.
When you receive that letter, what was your reaction?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was really shocked.
SERFATY: This museum is not alone. The administration has proposed eliminating the agencies that dole out the grants. The National Endowment of the Arts and Humanities. And in the last two months, the White House has pulled tens of millions of dollars in funding from cultural groups across the country, affecting a music program for young children in Nebraska, a young readers program in South Dakota, and the national history day competition. Valuable programs for kids now wrestling with cutbacks or even closure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Department of Government Efficiency canceled these grants, not the NEAH staff. Nobody was involved who actually knew what they were talking about.
SERFATY: These changes are an effort by Trump to exert more control over the nation's cultural fabric.
TRUMP: We will teach our children to love our country, to honor our history.
SERFATY: And drastically shrink the size of the federal government.
Many conservatives have long advocated such cuts, arguing arts and humanities programs are a waste of taxpayer money.
Why should taxpayers still be on the hook for this?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a joint investment in our community. Your taxpayer dollars don't always go just to what you can immediately put your hands on, but it also goes into the things that affect your daily lives and sort of very subtle ways.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be a tremendous loss for our students because a lot of our students wouldn't experience this in any other way.
SERFATY: Including Excel Alabi, who says she learned something about the Civil War she never learned in school?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Teenagers were going to war just to fight for rights because their families were slaves. That really stuck to me.
SERFATY: So you made a direct connection.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
SERFATY: Teenagers your age?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I think that was, like, really amazing. Like high schoolers going to war just to fight for rights.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SERFATY: And there are battles being played out in the courts right now to try to get the funding restored, that the administration continues to fight against. Meantime, as all of this is happening, Erica, CNN has also learned that the administration is redirecting some of that money that was pulled in those NEAH grants, and they're putting it towards the president's proposed National Garden of American Heroes Project, a sculpture garden that will cost millions.
HILL: Fascinating.
Sunlen, really appreciate the reporting. Thank you.
Billy Joel canceling all of his upcoming tour dates after being diagnosed with a brain disorder known as normal pressure hydrocephalus, or NPH. In announcing the news today, Joel said the condition has been exacerbated by recent concert performances, leading to problems with hearing, vision and balance. NPH occurs when fluid builds up inside the skull, pressing on the brain. Joel had previously delayed his tour by four months, and also revealed at that time a prior surgery.
Thanks so much for joining us tonight. I'm Erica Hill in for Erin Burnett.
"AC360" starts now.
