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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump: Putin "Is Playing With Fire", As Putin Steps Up Air Assault; NYT: Trump Pardons Tax Cheat After Mother Attends $1M Dinner; Trump To Cut $100M In Funds To Harvard, Nixing Remaining Contracts. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired May 27, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:24]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Trump says Putin is playing with fire, as a top Russian official says, that sounds like World War III. My guest tonight, the American ambassador to Ukraine, who just resigned, and the president of Finland, who shares the largest border in Europe with Putin.
Plus, a tax cheat pardoned after his mom reportedly attended a Mar-a- Lago fundraiser. This new reporting tonight from "The New York Times". And well speak OUTFRONT to the reporter, breaking this news.
And breaking news, live pictures out of Texas in just moments. Elon Musk's Starship rocket will take off. Tonight's launch, coming after the past two test flights exploded, even shutting down parts of U.S. airspace.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, playing with fire, a war of words erupting between Trump and Putin with Trump now flat out threatening the Russian leader on social media, writing, what Vladimir Putin doesn't realize is that if it weren't for me, lots of really bad things would have already happened to Russia and I mean really bad. He's playing with fire.
Well, this comes as Putin, over just the past week, has felt free rein, perhaps thanks to Trump's prior comments saying that he trusts Putin, he believes Putin wants to end the war, that he blames Biden and NATO for Putin's invasion. Putin's free rein has meant that in just the past week, Russia has fired more than 1,400 drones in nearly 100 missiles at Ukraine.
And tonight, Putin adviser and former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev is responding to Trump's sudden about face, posting regarding Trump's words about Putin playing with fire and really bad things happening to Russia, I know of one really bad thing, World War III. I hope Trump understands this.
And the Russian state television network RT, using Trump's about-face against him, tweeting Putin doesn't realize he's playing with fire. Trump's message leaves little room for misinterpretation until he posts the opposite tomorrow morning.
Well, meantime, some of Putin's most trusted mouthpieces are going out onto the airwaves defending Putin against Trump's most recent comment. Just listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm not happy with what Putin is doing. He's killing a lot of people. And I don't know what the hell happened to Putin. I've known him a long time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, tonight in Russia, they're flipping the script on Trump. They are pointing out that his view on Putin has changed big time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARGARITA SIMONYAN, EDITOR IN CHIEF OF RT (through translator): And suddenly, Trump says terrible things. Trump is going back somewhere to the 19th century. Trump suddenly says, no, we're not going to do this anymore. I am somehow seriously worried about his life and health.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Russian television openly mocking Trump, right? She's saying she's suddenly worried about his life and health.
Well, here's the thing about it, though. This is a total about face for Trump. He has long said this about Putin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I also have a very good relationship, as you know, with President Putin.
I knew Putin very well. I got along with him, actually great.
Putin is a nicer person than I am.
So now I like Putin. Now Putin called me a genius, by the way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Perhaps even the Russians can't believe what President Trump is now saying, to say that, quote, something has happened to Putin. Well, I mean, here's the reality -- when you look at his record, I mean, this is the same dictator that the world has known for decades, as if Putin woke up one day and went, in Trump's words, absolutely crazy. Just woke up now and went absolutely crazy?
I mean, think about how you would see it if you lived in Ukraine, 1,190 days ago. Putin launched an unprompted and unprovoked invasion of Ukraine. He's killed more than 12,000 civilians, 5,000 people are dying a day, 19,000 children were kidnaped, a war crime, countless cities and towns are destroyed, completely and utterly flattened.
Well, it's also not how the city of Salisbury, England, sees it. I mean, in 2018, remember this? Uk investigators pointed the finger at Putin for ordering the poisoning of a former double agent and his daughter with a deadly nerve agent. Now they survived the attack in Salisbury because it was bungled by KGB agents. But an innocent British woman died after being exposed to Novichok found in a discarded perfume bottle there.
Putin also has been very consistent. No change for those who witnessed his actions in Crimea illegally annexing it in 2014, seizing control of Ukrainian bases, arresting Ukrainian officers. And then, you know, perhaps you could tell Putin's critics that he has suddenly changed. These are the ones that maybe you can't tell because they're dead. They were killed by falling out of windows, falling out of a bathtub onto the street, falling down the stairs, assaulted, poisoned. Through the years.
Perhaps if you told them something has suddenly happened to him and he suddenly gone crazy, they would think that you had gone crazy.
[19:05:03]
Think about Russian agent turned Kremlin critic Alexander Litvinenko. He's dead. He was poisoned in London, a British investigation found that Putin probably approved the killing personally, and opposition leader Alexei Navalny poisoned by a Soviet era nerve agent, miraculously survived but died in February of last year, being held at one of the most notorious penal colonies in all of Russia.
In an op-ed, "The Wall Street Journal" writes, Mr. Trump may be the only person in the world still surprised by how Mr. Putin is behaving. The Russian is the same man he's been for two decades, bent on reconstituting as much of the old Soviet empire as he can get away with Ukraine is his obsession.
Kristen Holmes begins our coverage OUTFRONT live outside the White House.
So, Kristen, what are you learning about why Trump has suddenly and, you know, so it's not just that it's abrupt. It is -- it is a complete 180 in terms of his tone on Putin.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Erin, there are a couple reasons for this. So, one, they say that a lot of it is because he has escalated the attacks in Ukraine, but particularly the fact that this escalation came after the two of them, the two leaders, Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin, had this 2.5 hour long phone conversation.
But there is something else as well. We are told that in this conversation, Putin committed to drafting what he called a memorandum of peace to give to both the U.S. and Ukraine in a matter of days, which was essentially what Russia wanted or what they needed their requirements for a Ukrainian war ceasefire.
Now we are at more than a week since that phone call, and nobody has gotten any such document.
Now, we did hear from Russian official who said that they were still working on it. But that is adding to this layer of frustration that you are seeing from Donald Trump. Now, we are also told that Trump told Putin he had to work directly with Ukraine, that Russia and Ukraine had to work together, and that Europe and the United States would serve as potential intermediaries, but also would be there to help.
This, again, the fact that were seeing Putin then escalate the attacks in Ukraine instead of doing any of what he committed to doing during this phone call, is causing a lot of this frustration and why you're now seeing these conversations behind closed doors of these administration officials are talking to us about Donald Trump potentially adding to the sanctions on Russia. Just a week ago, when Putin and Trump had this phone call, what we heard from Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance, it sounded like the sanctions were really off the table or any additional sanctions.
Now you're hearing Donald Trump talking about this. But in addition to that, we know that this is being floated behind the scenes as potential next steps.
BURNETT: All right, Kristen, thank you very much. With all that new reporting from the White House.
Let's go now to former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Bridget Brink. She resigned recently due to President Trump's policy on Ukraine. She has served in the foreign service for three decades under five presidents, Democrats and Republicans, and now potentially considering a run for Congress.
So, Ambassador, I appreciate your time.
You know, obviously, the record of what Trump has said about Putin publicly, about trusting him, about liking him, right? It is -- it is well-established and it is consistent. What we're seeing now is very different, right? He says Putin is playing with fire. He called today over the weekend. He calls him crazy.
I know you've likened Trump's policy with regards to Ukraine to appeasement, but when you see statements like this on social media, do you think something's actually changing or do you think Russian media is right when they qualify it with, okay, this is all fine, quote, until he posts the opposite tomorrow morning.
BRIDGET BRINK, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: Erin, thanks so much for having me on. Well, I would just say that the change in tone from President Trump and the administration is positive, but the proof is in the pudding, because the next thing that really needs to happen is for the Trump administration to put on additional sanctions on Russia, including especially in the energy sector, and to get at the sources that are financing Putin's war.
BURNETT: So, can I ask you about that? Because this has been something that I have struggled to understand since the beginning, right. When they said sanctions and then more sanctions. And you'd think at this point, this many years in, there was nothing left to sanction.
I mean, you look at big U.S. companies, they don't have any presence in Russia, right? But there is more to sanctions. So can you explain what is at this point going to create that delta where okay, now at this point, this extra sanction would really do it.
BRINK: Well, I think the next step is to go after the sources of income that are funding the war that Putin is raging and has raged now for more than three years in Ukraine. That includes the sale of oil and the shadow fleet and other sources of revenue coming from the energy sector.
The Europeans have recently added additional sanctions. There are some already U.S. sanctions that have continued, but there's more that we could do, and we can do it in a way that will choke some of Putin's ability to wage the war.
The Russian economy is suffering. They have 20 percent interest rates, 10 percent inflation. We need to put additional pressure on right now.
BURNETT: And obviously, when you're looking at 20 percent interest rates, I mean, it's a lot of pain, right?
[19:10:05]
So, you know, I know that you have noted, you know, your resignation, that one of the reasons you finally, you know, you finally chose to do it, right? You stayed with it. You stayed with it because you believed in Ukraine. You know, you wanted to contribute and make a difference when you finally resigned.
I know that you've noted that moment in the oval office when Trump yelled at Zelenskyy and Trump went on this weekend when he called Putin crazy, he went on to say this. Likewise, President Zelenskyy is doing his country no favors by talking the way he does everything out of his mouth causes problems. I don't like it, and it better stop.
Why do you think Trump talks to Zelenskyy this way? And I'll be clear on this one. This is consistent with how Trump talks about Zelenskyy.
BRINK: Well, Erin, I can't explain it. What I can say is that when I see it and I lived in Ukraine and I lived under these terrible, horrible Russian missiles and drones and talked to the families who lost their children and talked to the families who lost their husbands or their wives or their grandkids. And I think what President Zelenskyy is doing is trying to rally the world to save his country.
And what I think Vladimir Putin is doing is sending thousands of missiles and drones not only to fight frontline battles, but to places of residence to kill people in their homes, to kill children on playgrounds, and to kill people in churches and other places. These are -- these are acts which are absolutely horrendous and unacceptable, and ones that I believe that we and the rest of the free world need to do everything possible to stop.
BURNETT: So after Trump came out and called Trump crazy, the foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, said today that Trump may, quote, reveal certain emotions. And he's saying because Europe is sabotaging Trump's peace efforts.
You know, when you look at how Russia is handling Trump, whether it be via state media, what you're seeing from Lavrov, Medvedev, perhaps a bit more of a loose cannon and even Putin himself, what stands out to you?
BRINK: I mean, the problem that exists now and the problem that has existed throughout the entire time that I have been a professional diplomat working in this part of the world, is that Putin's goals are very simple and they're different than ours. They are to subjugate Ukraine and other countries in Europe, to divide Europe and to weaken the United States. And that is his longtime goal. You said it exactly correctly, in my view, at the beginning.
And so, as the United States and my strong recommendation to the Trump administration would be that you counter such goals with an equally strong and robust response, and I think it's just as simple as playground politics that you have a playground bully. And if you let that person proceed, it's only going to get worse. I think to the fear of World War III is letting this aggression continue unchecked. That's my fear.
BURNETT: Ambassador Brink, so much appreciate your time. And thank you.
BRINK: Thank you.
BURNETT: OUTFRONT now, President Alexander Stubb of Finland.
And, President Stubb, so President Trump this weekend said, and I'm quoting him, something has happened to Vladimir Putin. He went on to say, quoting again, that he's gone absolutely crazy. Is that how you would describe Putin right now?
ALEXANDER STUBB, PRESIDENT OF FINLAND: Well, I've been speaking with President Trump on numerous occasions, and I think there's always a strategy behind what Putin does. And that strategy is a strategy of delay. And while we're speaking, he continues his war of aggression in Ukraine. And we're talking about at least 5,000 dead or wounded soldiers per day. So if that's defined as crazy, then so be it.
BURNETT: You mentioned your many conversations with President Trump. I know you had a surprise visit with him in Mar-a-Lago this spring, and you played golf, and I know you're extremely good golfer. So he then posted a picture of you. He was praising your golf skills.
Obviously, that was just before tariffs. But even after the tariffs were announced, Mr. President, you sat next to Trump at Pope Francis's funeral.
So how often do you speak with him?
STUBB: Well, you know, I've had the opportunity to obviously meet him on a few occasions and then speak over the phone fairly regularly. And, you know, it's normal diplomatic exchanges of ideas. And I'm glad that I can do that, because, as you understand, I come from a small country. And whenever the president of a small country is able to speak with the president of the United States, it's a good part of our diplomacy.
BURNETT: A small country, but a crucial country. And you have the longest land border with Russia in Europe. So, when you talk of Putin, you know of what you speak, right?
[19:15:00]
About 830 miles. We're showing it here.
Right now, Putin is building up his military along Finland's border. Mr. President, what exactly are you seeing him do along your border right now? What is happening?
STUBB: Well, I mean, we Finns are cool, calm and collected. And sometimes when you see things in the international media, it's perhaps a little bit twisted. We have the border under full control. Russia has always had military bases along our border, and there is a normal buildup. You have to remember that four brigades were moved from the Leningrad military district when the war began in Ukraine, and our expectation is that there will be a build up after the war is over, and that buildup will continue.
And, you know, the reason is very simple. We have one of the largest militaries in Europe, together with Turkey, Ukraine and Poland. And on top of that, we have just doubled NATO's border.
So that's normal Russian activity. We have obligatory military service, 900,000 men and women who have done it. We have over 60 F- 18s. We just bought 64 F-35s. We have the largest artillery in Europe together with Poland.
And as I keep on saying, we don't have it because were worried about Sweden. We have it because we want to create a deterrent against Russia. So, you know, one of the borders that the French or anyone else should be least worried about is the Finnish border, as we put it here. We got this, and especially we got this with our allies.
BURNETT: And when you talk about defending that border, one of the most common excuses made for Putin's invasion of Ukraine. Is this, right? Well, if Putin hadn't wanted I'm sorry, if Ukraine hadn't wanted to join NATO, Putin wouldn't have invaded. Right? It's the propaganda that comes out of Moscow.
It is also what we hear from some politicians, actually, frankly, including President Trump, who made this exact point. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I believe that's the reason the war started, because Biden went out and said that they could join NATO, and he shouldn't have said that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So they say, look, NATO's on Russia's border. That's why Putin invaded. You can't have NATO along the border.
But again, to make the point, you've got the largest land border with Russia, and you are in NATO. So what do you say to those people who will explain and excuse Putin's invasion using the NATO rationale?
STUBB: Well, probably two answers on that. The first one is that I don't think Finland would have joined NATO had not Putin attacked Ukraine. And of course, Finland and Ukraine are different kettle of fish. And we have a very different history.
Now, the second reason is that I think actually Putin made one of the biggest strategic and tactical mistakes in recent military history. He underestimated the power of the Ukrainian army. He overestimated his own army, and he underestimated the resolve of the unity of the West.
And look, what was he trying to do? He was trying to make Ukraine Russian while it became European. He tried to split the European Union. I've never seen it more united. He tried to split the transatlantic partnership and especially NATO, and he ended up with neutral Sweden and Finland joining NATO.
So, you could perhaps argue that whatever he made was a colossal mistake.
BURNETT: President Stubb, thank you so much for your time.
STUBB: My pleasure.
BURNETT: And next, a Republican megadonor reportedly attending a fundraising dinner with Trump. Weeks later, her son got a pardon. The veteran "New York Times" reporter breaking this story is OUTFRONT to tell you all the details.
Plus, Trump now set to hit Harvard with another $100 million blow as First Lady Melania Trump enters the fray trying to squash a conspiracy theory that involves their son Barron.
And pay up. Trump tells Canada they can have his Golden Dome missile defense system for free. It doesn't exist yet, but okay. And there's another catch.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:23:20]
BURNETT: Tonight, a tax cheat pardoned by President Trump after his mother attended a $1 million per person dinner at Mar-a-Lago. Thats according to new reporting tonight from "The New York Times'" Ken Vogel.
Paul Walczak, a former nursing home executive, pleaded guilty to tax crimes last fall. He petitioned Trump for a pardon around inauguration day and, according to "The Times", also cited his mother's support for the president on his pardon application. His mother, Elizabeth Fago, a Republican mega-donor, has hosted multiple fundraisers for Trump and attended VIP events at both his 2017 and 2025 inaugurations.
Vogel reports, and I quote from "The New York Times" article, as Ms. Fago and Mr. Walczak awaited word on the pardon, she was invited to the Mar-a-Lago fundraiser with Mr. Trump, an invitation billed as an intimate candlelit dinner with very limited space available to people who paid $1 million each. Now, it's unclear if she personally donated $1 million, but Vogel writes, and I quote again, less than three weeks after she attended the dinner, Mr. Trump signed a full and unconditional pardon.
And Ken Vogel is OUTFRONT now.
Ken, it's really incredible reporting here through and through. What more can you share about how connected Elizabeth Fago is to Trump and how when we say megadonor, what does that really mean? How big of a fundraiser is she?
KENNETH VOGEL, NEW YORK TIMES REPORTER: Well, she's a very big fundraiser. In fact, in this pardon application for her son, it's noted that she has raised millions of dollars for Trump and other Republican candidates. Now, her value to the Republican Party is really more as a fundraiser and less as a megadonor herself. Her previous biggest or her biggest federal campaign contribution on record is $100,000 back in 2002 to President George -- or to the RNC during the George W. Bush administration.
[19:25:10]
So that shows you she's not really the type of person who is expected to stroke a check for $1 million. Yet this application comes in for a pardon for her son, and she's citing her financial support. And then she receives this invitation while she's awaiting action on the pardon to a $1 million per person fundraiser at Mar-a-Lago with President Trump.
That shows you two things. I think. Number one, it shows you how people who are seeking clemency from President Trump think about the best path to get it. That is citing their support for him. And number two, that the folks around Trump would see this as an opportunity to send out an invitation to someone who clearly wants to be in Trump's good graces for a fundraiser that has a huge upfront, per person asking price.
BURNETT: Right. I mean, and I suppose, you know, the presence at the dinner is so crucial. Do you know if she personally gave $1 million to attend that Mar-a-Lago fundraiser, or whether she was just invited because of her ties and her support, and was just included for that reason?
VOGEL: We don't know. But in our reporting around other fundraisers like this, and President Trump has held a series of these candlelight dinners or intimate fundraisers at Mar-a-Lago in Washington. And they don't tend to invite people who are going to give money or who aren't supporters in other ways. So, it would be surprising if she didn't give.
That said, we don't know for a fact how much she gave or whether she gave and how much she gave, and we won't know necessarily until the end of July, when the organization MAGA Inc. gets called. It's a PAC that can accept unlimited donations when it is required to file a Federal Election Commission report that reveals its donors for the first half of the year.
BURNETT: Well, so, you know, it's interesting when you say people, you know, money matters, right? Money talks, but you also say and support in other ways. And on that, Ken, you have some really amazing reporting in here. You say Fago is connected to a plot to publicize Ashley Biden's addiction diary around the 2020 campaign.
And there was a lot that was sort of coming out from that and that had been put out in the public, and that she was apparently connected to that, to a plot to publicize that diary, you report, something which her son included in his pardon application.
VOGEL: Yeah, that was surprising as well, because this plot actually resulted in a criminal investigation. And we got a search warrant in that investigation that showed that Ms. Fago and her daughter, this is Paul Walczak sister, were actually listed as potential coconspirators in this investigation. That led to guilty pleas by two other people. And by the way, these two people who had the diary brought a contact to one of them, contacted Elizabeth Fago and then brought the diary to a fundraiser at her house in the run up to the 2020 election.
And there were campaign, there was at least one campaign representative there. In addition, by the way, to Donald Trump Jr. and his girlfriend at the time were the featured guests at this fundraiser. So that shows you the connections of Ms. Fago and her family to the Trump family. And it also shows you that she thought that this would be something that could help the Trump campaign. And even though there was a criminal investigation into this that led to at least one person being sentenced to a year in prison, the other person is yet who pleaded guilty is yet to be sentenced.
So, this seems like maybe it should be like something that you would want to keep your distance from. Yet, she -- yet Paul Walczak, her son, cited it in this pardon application as almost like a testament, like something that that was spoke in favor of them and showed their support for President Trump.
BURNETT: All right. Ken, thank you very much. Such important reporting. And of course, hope everyone will read your full article. Thanks for sharing all of this with us.
And Gretchen Carlson is OUTFRONT now, journalist, former Fox News anchor, and the co-founder of lift our voices.
You know, Gretchen, you know, we all remember the campaign promise that got -- well, there were many. There was lower prices, okay? But then there was this as to why Trump got elected.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: It is time to drain the damn swamp.
It's time to drain the swamp of corruption.
We will drain the swamp.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And yet these pardons.
GRETCHEN CARLSON, JOURNALIST: Yeah, im not surprised at all. Look, this is Trump at his best in his own mind because he always wants to support the people that supported him. And so that is the first requirement here.
As far as whether or not his base or MAGA is paying attention to this. I don't think that they care about this. They're paying very close attention to the tariffs, the price of gas, to immigration. And if they were paying attention to this, they would say, well, it's okay that they get off, because, by the way, they were probably found guilty because Biden's people came after them, right?
[19:30:06]
BURNETT: Right. Because of a rigged system.
CARLSON: Yes. And so, that's the way that you will rationalize all of this.
BURNETT: So, you know, the other thing that I don't know, you know, who's paying attention to, but is the issue of corruption, pay to play, you know, selling off the presidency as its been talked about, whether that's the Qatari plane or business deals around the world, right?
And there was an exchange last week between Tucker Carlson and Shawn Ryan, who's also a conservative podcast host, and they were talking about what's going on with Trump business deals around the world. And in this case, they were specifically talking about Middle East. And this is the exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER CARLSON, PODCAST HOST: I've not made $1 in the Middle East, not one.
SHAWN RYAN, PODCAST HOST: Well, I mean, I mean. You're a lot more on the inside than I am.
CARLSON: No, no, no, I'm just -- I'm just a visitor and a traveler and a watcher, but I don't, you know, there's --
RYAN: That stuff kind of worries me. You know?
CARLSON: Well, it seems like corruption. Yeah.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I mean, you know, you know Tucker better than many -- I mean, you know, for him to come out and say that, you know, he's not -- he's not looking for reasons to hit Trump.
CARLSON: Yeah. He sort of sheepishly said that there might be something wrong with this. There might be corruption. Look, I think the only person so far who Trump has listened to is Laura Loomer.
I mean, that had a lot to do with getting rid of Mike Waltz, the national security adviser, and many other people in that side of Trump's administration. But as far as other people coming out, remember a couple of months ago, Dave Portnoy, who was responsible for getting a lot of the young men to vote for Donald Trump, he was very openly criticizing president Trump.
And I thought at that point in time, maybe the dam is going to break. Maybe Trump will start listening to them, or maybe more and more will come forward. I'm not so sure now, unless it's Laura Loomer.
BURNETT: And she -- she does seem to carry incredible weight with him. He's been going through his enemies list very quickly, right? I mean, you know, that fear that that would happen. He has not seemed to have any concern about doing it.
CARLSON: No, I mean, he promised he was going to do this. Now, here is the key to me -- independents. You're going to have a midterm election coming up. Independents are likely not going to be happy with some of this behavior. With Trump and the enemies list, MAGA will always support him. But if he is concerned about losing the midterm elections, he's going to have to start playing to the independents pretty quickly.
BURNETT: All right, Gretchen, thank you very much. Gretchen Carlson.
And next, Trump trying to cut another $100 million from Harvard. First lady getting into the fray. Did her son Barron apply to Harvard? And that's why it's a target. That's the conspiracy theory. And she now came out and responded to it.
Plus, breaking news, Elon Musk's Starship rocket about to take off, coming after the last two launches ended with explosions over the Atlantic. We've got it all live in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:36:59]
BURNETT: Breaking news, $100 million. That's how much in government contracts President Trump is taking away from Harvard in his latest move to cripple the university. Just days after Trump warned he could take away $3 billion in grant money to Harvard, and after he tried to ban Harvard from accepting international students, which is a third of its entire student body.
Tonight, the first lady, Melania Trump, is stepping in trying to squash a conspiracy theory that Harvard is being targeted because it rejected Barron Trump. Her office says Barron Trump, who attends NYU, never even applied to Harvard.
OUTFRONT now, Larry Summers, the president emeritus at Harvard University and former U.S. treasury secretary, in both your capacities, wer'e really grateful to have you with us tonight.
So, Secretary, you know, you heard the first lady's office. They've gotten involved now. They came in and brought up that theory out there and said that the targeting of Harvard from President Trump has nothing to do with revenge, because Barron Trump never even applied by responding to it, it became news.
But I guess the question for you is a very simple one, because this is now -- I mean, there have been issues for universities across the country. Right. But it is personal to Harvard at the same time. What do you think Trump's war against Harvard is about?
LAWRENCE H. SUMMERS, FORMER HARVARD UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT: I certainly can't psychoanalyze the president's motives. What I do know is that this is a preposterous, entirely extralegal act of extortion against an American institution. Just like what was done to any number of law firms. Just like what was done to government agencies that had appropriated funds. There's plenty of policies at Harvard that reasonable people can debate, and plenty that I have sharply criticized.
But simply cutting off all funding for cancer research. That's not some gift Harvard got. That's the government deciding it wants to fight cancer. Finding the best researchers and giving them the money, cutting off people from all over the world who we have a chance to have enormous influence on in the most important years of their lives, by having them study in the United States.
And, yeah, Harvard right now is the tip of the iceberg in terms of what they're attacking. But the homeland secretary made clear that Harvard was an example for everyone else. This is, I hate to say it, and I frankly never thought that I would say it about anything in American government.
But this is a step towards tyranny. It's a step towards an authoritarian government. It's the kind of thing that has happened in many other parts of the world. It's the kind of thing that the founding fathers worried about when they drafted the constitution. And now we've got to count on the courts to stop it.
BURNETT: So I guess I'm curious, though. Harvard's endowment is $53 billion.
[19:40:02]
You look at I'm not -- I'm not saying any of this is okay. All right. I'm just saying, if you're looking at a $3 billion hit or $100 million hit, all of these things, I'm listing, right, a $53 billion endowment can cover all of it easily. It can cover all of this for a long time. Is that how this is going to go? I mean, in a certain sense, money is fungible. In a certain sense it isn't. But I mean, can Harvard continue to fight this?
SUMMERS: Erin, look, it's a little complicated. I think you have to take a balanced position. Yes. Harvard has financial resources that it can use to respond to cutoffs. Yes, it does.
And if there's research, that's the difference between curing cancer and not curing cancer. Harvard can make sure that it continues to be funded. But that $53 billion is not just sitting there. All of the income from that $53 billion is and -- at Harvard. And, yes, Harvard can run down the $53 billion, but if it does, it will be running down the ability to provide scholarships to students. It will be running down the ability to hire new professors.
It will be hiring -- it will be running down the capacity to do all the things that the university does. So, yes, we can fight this. And I imagine the university will maintain its core programs while it's looking for judicial rulings.
But make no mistake, if you launch this kind of assault on the idea that the federal government is trying to cure diseases, on the idea that the federal government is trying to make it possible for kids from not wealthy families to go --
BURNETT: All right. It looks like we just had a freeze there of secretary and professor Summers shot, former president of Harvard, as I said, emeritus.
All right. Thanks very much.
And next, the breaking news, Elon Musk's Starship Rocket just taking off. So far, a small victory for a man whose companies are taking a huge hit.
Plus, North Korea accusing Trump of inciting what could become a nuclear war.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:46:41]
BURNETT: Breaking news, Elon Musk's SpaceX moments ago launching its Starship rocket into orbit. You're looking at this right now. There was a slight delay on the launch pad. You are watching the moment of launch here right now.
Now, just what we're seeing here is actually the ninth test flight. It is being very closely watched. It's very important because the last two Starship test flights abruptly ended when the company's rockets exploded. This is right over Starbase Texas, which, of course, you know, Ed Lavandera seen so many great reports from. But they've been under a lot of pressure there because of some of these failures.
Harry Enten is with me now to tell us something that we don't know.
So, you know, Elon Musk, part of the reason there's been so much criticism of him is they've said, well, why don't you focus on things like rockets so that they, you know, function the way they should, your cars, et cetera.? His approval ratings have been crushed since he became a politician, since he became the right hand of the president. SpaceX, which is obviously what's launching this rocket, show his fall from grace.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Absolutely. You know, that rocket may be going up and hopefully it continues to go up, but SpaceX reputation is going down, down, down, falling back way to earth.
What are we talking about here? You know, before Elon Musk really started this politics thing, the reputational rank for SpaceX among the 100 top companies in the United States, among Americans, it was right near the very top.
What are we talking about here? Well, were talking about a reputation that get this was fifth, fifth out of the top 100 American companies. Look where it fell to by 2025. Oh, my God. It fell 81 spots down to 86.
BURNETT: Out of 100.
ENTEN: Out of 100. Thats crazy talk right there.
BURNETT: Who's below? Tesla?
ENTEN: Tesla is below that. Yes.
BURNETT: It's not funny.
ENTEN: But it's true. This is part of what we've seen with Elon Musk is it's not just bringing him down, its bringing down the organizations, the companies that he has run, whether it be SpaceX or Tesla, whose net favorability rating at this point, I think was minus 20 points, according to a recent CNBC poll.
BURNETT: It's amazing. You know, I was talking to the president of Finland earlier and was looking at the numbers there. I mean, number one EV car in Finland was Tesla. Sales were down 66 percent. I mean, it's just unbelievable.
Now his unpopularity is rooted right in being with Trump all the time. And perhaps and also DOGE, right? The thing about DOGE was the people who supported it said, okay, we don't -- may not like the method, we may not like the lack of transparency. There's lots we don't like, but if you can go in and successfully cut all this from the government, then that is a good thing. Okay, there are some people who felt that way.
So, can you compare the promises of what he said? He was going to cut $3 trillion at one point he's saying?
ENTEN: Two trillion.
BURNETT: Two trillion to where what he actually did.
ENTEN: You know, it would be one thing if Elon Musk went into government, made these cuts that a lot of folks would see painful. And he actually did what he set out to accomplish.
But take a look at the promises that Elon Musk made in terms of the cuts. He said that DOGE was going to make versus what actually ended up happening. His first goal was $2 trillion. Okay, then we cut in half to $1 trillion. What was the actual cuts to government at this point? According to DOGE, they've only been able to cut $175 billion. Now, that's not half bad.
But keep in mind, first off, that's way short of the first goal, way short of the second goal. But more than that, we don't -- we haven't actually seen the numbers. This is what DOGE is telling us.
But either way, Elon Musk has fallen way short of where he said that DOGE was going to be.
BURNETT: Even if all that's true, and I'm not saying the 175 is true or not true, I don't know. I do know that many things that they said they did originally were off by, like exponentially.
[19:50:04]
So, you know, they need to show the receipts even for the 175.
ENTEN: Exactly.
BURNETT: By the way, the budget bill that was just passed was $2 trillion, like right off the bat. So, I mean.
ENTEN: It's pennies.
BURNETT: Tell me something that I don't know.
ENTEN: All right. I'll tell you something that you don't know, Erin Burnett.
You know, you spoke about at the top that Elon Musk net favorability rating in this country has plummeted, right? But compare it to Europe. You were mentioning Finland earlier. How about Great Britain?
So, let's take a look at the net favorability of Elon Musk in America, and then look at it in the United Kingdom. In the U.S., he's not a popular guy at minus 15 points.
But look at the United Kingdom. Holy cow. Minus 66 points on a net favorability rating? Trying to find someone in the UK with a favorable rating of Elon Musk is like trying to find someone who has a favorable view of the French soccer team.
BURNETT: Wow. Thats incredible. All right, well, that's a downer.
However, I will say this that rocket looks like it's going okay, and that's something everybody should be able to celebrate when something like American ingenuity does well, which is why SpaceX used to be ranked so high.
ENTEN: And now -- BURNETT: Absolutely.
All right. Thank you, Harry.
ENTEN: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, Trump telling Canada to cough up $61 billion if it wants to be protected by his non-existent Golden Dome. And if they want it for free, you know, he's going to build it and they get it. They have to agree to a very specific set of terms. And we'll tell you what it is.
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[19:56:03]
BURNETT: Tonight, President Trump trying to get Canada to contribute to his Golden Dome defense missile system that does not exist and may never exist. Posting online, quote, I told Canada, which very much wants to be part of our fabulous Golden Dome system, that it will cost $61 billion if they remain a separate but unequal nation, but will cost zero dollars if they become our cherished 51st state. They are considering the offer. Well, of course that's what he says.
North Korea, though, is already up in arms about the Golden Dome, accusing Trump of risking a nuclear war.
Will Ripley is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The friendly handshakes feel like a distant memory. North Korea is blasting President Donald Trump's planned Golden Dome space shield, calling it an outer space nuclear war scenario supporting the U.S. strategy for unipolar domination. A typical product of America first, the height of self-righteousness, arrogance.
Harsh words not just from Pyongyang.
Also, China, amid its own rapid military buildup. Beijing warns the Golden Dome would violate the principle of peaceful use of outer space, igniting a dangerous space arms race.
MAO NING, CHINESE FOREIGN MINISTRY: This has a strong offensive nature. It will exacerbate the militarization of outer space.
RIPLEY: From China and North Korea to Russia, and perhaps someday, Iran. The list of Americas nuclear armed adversaries is growing, and so are their missile arsenals.
TRUMP: I promise the American people that I would build a cutting-edge missile defense shield.
RIPLEY: President Trump's Golden Dome would be the most ambitious and expensive space weapons system ever, $175 billion. Israel's Iron Dome defends cities from short range rockets in a country about the size of New Jersey. Golden Dome would try to shield the entire U.S., shooting down nuclear missiles in orbit before they reach Earth. But experts say the technology to pull it off doesn't exist, at least not yet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's been described as hitting a bullet with a bullet.
RIPLEY: Missile defense company Lockheed Martin says: We will bring in the best and brightest of American innovation to rapidly develop game- changing tech like space based interceptors and hypersonic defenses that will ensure America's Golden Dome stays well ahead of adversary threats.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And destroys the ICBM warhead by force of impact.
RIPLEY: Despite hundreds of billions of dollars for research and development going back more than four decades to President Ronald Reagan in 1983 --
RONALD REAGAN, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I know this is a formidable technical task, one that may not be accomplished before the end of this century.
RIPLEY: -- no U.S. missile defense system has ever been proven effective against a realistic, large scale intercontinental ballistic missile attack, especially one involving modern ICBMs with decoys, multiple warheads, or countermeasures.
ANDREW REDDIE, ASSOCIATE RESEARCH PROFESSOR OF PUBLIC POLICY, UC BERKELEY: There is a historical precursor to what we're seeing now when it is Star Wars during the Reagan administration, and there are echoes of that program in what's being proposed.
RIPLEY: President Trump's Golden Dome is a bold promise.
TRUMP: We'll have it done in about three years, and we will have the best system ever built.
RIPLEY: But critics warn it may also be a perilous pipe dream, escalating tensions with U.S. adversaries not just on Earth, but in space.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RIPLEY (on camera): One hundred seventy-five billion dollars, actually a pretty low estimate of what Golden Dome could cost, Erin. There's a new estimate from the Congressional Budget Office putting the cost at more like $831 billion over 20 years. And experts doubt if it would even be possible to deploy hundreds of satellites to detect and intercept missiles by the end of Trump's term in 2029, because, again, technology doesn't really exist at this point.
What is more likely, experts say, is that the space arms race with adversaries, especially North Korea, especially China, that will accelerate. It's already underway. But if the Golden Dome blasts off, who knows what will happen in space? BURNETT: Well, thank you very much, as always.
And thanks, of course, to all of you. We'll see you tomorrow.
Anderson starts now.
