Return to Transcripts main page
Erin Burnett Outfront
Man Mistakenly Deported To El Salvador Back In U.S. To Face Charges; Trump Officials To Meet With China For High-Stakes Talks On Trade; Ukraine Braces For More Attacks In Response To Strikes Inside Russia; Trump On Whether He's Heard From Musk: Too Busy To Think About Him. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired June 06, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:25]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Breaking news, the man mistakenly sent to El Salvador from Maryland tonight back in the United States just appearing in court, where he is now facing criminal charges -- charges that led one federal prosecutor to resign in just the past hour.
Also breaking, President Trump just speaking about his very public breakup with Elon Musk. Did he misjudge the richest man in the world making a mistake?
And the UFO files. We'll take you to the largest gathering of so- called ufologists. They have a message for Trump when it comes to America's secret files.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
We begin OUTFRONT tonight with the breaking news. The man from Maryland, the father of three mistakenly sent to that notorious prison in El Salvador, is tonight back in the United States. Kilmar Abrego Garcia just appearing in a Tennessee court to face charges. The Department of Justice bringing him back to the U.S. to face charges of transporting undocumented migrants.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAM BONDI, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: The grand jury found that over the past nine years, Abrego Garcia has played a significant role in an alien smuggling ring.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now, of course, it took them months to bring him back. Attorney General Pam Bondi went on to make another a number of other accusations, including claims that Abrego Garcia had a role in a murder.
But according to the indictment, okay, which I'm going to hold up here, right? So, talking about a role in a murder, they actually also at another point, talk about child pornography. But in the indictment, there are no charges related to those things, none at all. There are only two charges, conspiracy to unlawfully transport illegal aliens for financial gain, and the unlawful transportation of illegal aliens for financial gain. So, it's both things, conspiracy and the transport itself.
Two charges, very serious ones that could result in at least ten years in prison for each one, they can prove. But again, these other things mentioned are not charged. They're incredibly serious. They should be charged if they have evidence.
Bondi making it clear he will be deported back to El Salvador no matter what once his sentence is over. They're saying if he's convicted. But the timing certainly raises the question of whether this is simply an off ramp for the administration, a way to bring Abrego Garcia back without being seen as caving to what the courts have already told them to do.
Moments ago, on Air Force One, Trump praised Bondi for bringing Abrego Garcia back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He should have been returned. He should have never -- he should have never had to be returned. But you take a look at what's happened with him. You take a look at what they found in the grand jury and everywhere else, I thought Pam Bondi did a great job today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now, according to sources, the DOJ's decision to pursue the indictment against Abrego Garcia caused a disagreement between prosecutors in Tennessee, a high ranking federal prosecutor even resigning, which is obviously very crucial when you talk about all these things that are put in here but not charged, what's actually going on here?
Remember, everybody from Trump on down in the administration made it very clear that, well, they weren't defying the rule of law in a court order because they were not able to bring Garcia home. The Supreme Court had ordered Trump officials to facilitate his return, and they just didn't do it, Trump told time. I haven't asked El Salvador's president positively, but he said he wouldn't.
And of course, we heard this from the administration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BONDI: That's up to El Salvador. If they want to return him. That's not up to us.
TOM HOMAN, BORDER CZAR: Well, El Salvador would have to agree to release him. It doesn't sound like they're going to. STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF FOR POLICY: That
would be kidnaping that we have to kidnap an El Salvadorian citizen against the will of his government and flying back to America, which would be an unimaginable act and an invasion of El Salvador sovereignty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: But when Salvador's President Bukele was asked about Abrego Garcia in the Oval Office, he said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Do you plan to return him?
NAYIB BUKELE, PRESIDENT OF EL SALVADOR: Well, I'm not suggesting that I smuggle a terrorist into the United States. Right? It's only saying, how can I smuggle? How can I return him to the United States? Like I smuggle him into the United States? Or what do I do? Of course I'm not going to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIPO)
BURNETT: Well, now, Bukele is tweeting tonight if they request the return of a gang member to face charges -- of course, we wouldn't refuse. Well, that means that a lot of people were not telling the truth in a lot of different instances. But now that Abrego Garcia is back, right, there's also the crucial question of whether the DOJ charges that we are looking at now and accusations will hold up in court.
[19:05:06]
And Evan Perez is OUTFRONT live in Washington.
So, Evan, you were there in the press conference with Attorney General Bondi today. So what are you learning about the charges, how they came to what is a charge and what isn't, and why now? Why now, suddenly, they bring him home, and they said for months they couldn't?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Erin, so I asked the question to the attorney general, what changed? What has happened in the intervening period to be able to bring us to this point? And one of the things she said was that new facts have emerged.
And so, what we know is this is that this all goes back to that 2022 traffic stop in Tennessee. State police pulled him over. They contacted the Homeland Security Department, which declined to take custody of him at the time.
And what we -- what we've been told is that there was an ongoing investigation in that period. It has been not exactly active. It's been kind of dormant, but it was never closed. And that in recent months or in recent weeks, as this case has gotten so much publicity for the -- for the reasons you're mentioning with the court fight, that a witness, someone who is an associate of Abrego Garcia, reached out to the Justice Department and provided some information and offered to provide additional information that could be helpful in this case. And so that is what has made this case possible.
Now, as you pointed out, it's not clear. You know, obviously, what else is there to support the evidence of this, of this case. We're going to find out when it goes to trial.
But we know that in Tennessee, in the Nashville U.S. attorney's office, that there was some disagreement over this case.
Now, we know that Ben Schrader, who is the chief of the criminal section there, he resigned. And he posted this on LinkedIn, he said, after 15 years, he had resigned that day. And this happened the week, by the way, that these charges were brought in the federal court there.
He said it has been an incredible privilege to serve as a prosecutor with the Department of Justice, where the only job description I've ever known is to do the right thing in the right way, for the right reasons.
Now, I reached out to Mr. Schrader. He declined to comment. But I will tell you that the -- you know, I talked to an official who said, look, this is an immigration is a priority for this administration. And if you don't want to do that, then you don't have to stay.
BURNETT: All right, Evan, thank you very much. But obviously, the resignation of the chief of the criminal section in Tennessee after 15 years coming at this very moment is significant. And obviously, we don't yet know the details as to why or why such a thing would have happened.
Simon Sandoval-Moshenberg is with me now, the attorney for Kilmar Abrego Garcia.
So, Simon, all of a sudden, he was on a plane. He came back to Tennessee to face those charges today. And the charges that we see, I'm just looking at the indictment.
There are two of them. There are two formal charges, right? Conspiracy to unlawfully transport illegal aliens for financial gain and unlawful transportation of illegal aliens for financial gain, two different counts. They sound the same to a layperson, but they are two different ones.
What's your response to these?
SIMON SANDOVAL-MOSHENBERG, ATTORNEY FOR KILMAR ABREGO GARCIA: Yeah, it's quite clear from the face of the indictment that almost all of the information they have comes from two supposed coconspirators, both of whom have already been federally prosecuted and who are likely sitting in a federal prison somewhere. So, the very first question I'm going to be asking is, what were those two people offered to make up these really fantastic, you know, hyperbolic allegations against Mr. Abrego Garcia? BURNETT: All right. So, in terms of Tennessee, you know, we've got
the, you know, the video that the government points to the 2022 traffic stop, which was in Tennessee, where Abrego Garcia, you know, they say they say that there were several men inside his SUV, and he was transporting people from Texas to Maryland, so across state lines.
Do you know the full details about this incident that is now at the core of this? Because that's why this is all being charged in Tennessee.
SANDOVAL-MOSHENBERG: Right. So, you know, Mr. Abrego Garcia had been held completely incommunicado for three months in El Salvador. That's one of the major human rights violations is that he was denied attorney visits. We had an attorney go down there three times to try to visit him. He was denied attorney phone calls.
So now that he's back on U.S. soil, I'm going to have the opportunity to visit him hopefully as soon as this weekend. His wife is going to have the opportunity to visit him. So it's really mixed emotions for her because on the one hand, she's going to have the opportunity to see him and speak with him that she's been waiting for, for so many months. But on the other hand, it's going to be inside of a Tennessee jail, at least for now.
BURNETT: So when he was on the plane today, coming back right, there had been all these times they said they couldn't bring him back. They weren't defying a court order. They couldn't bring him back.
Then, all of a sudden, they did today. Did you even know he was coming? And do you know why they're doing it now?
SANDOVAL-MOSHENBERG: We learned about it on TV, just like the rest of the country.
What's clear -- this just makes crystal clear. What we've been saying, frankly, for the past two months is that they've been playing games with the court. Two months ago, the Supreme Court ordered that they facilitate his release from custody in El Salvador, that they facilitate his return to the United States, and that the case be handled in the same way it would have been handled if he'd never been improperly sent to El Salvador.
[19:10:13]
That is clearly not what happened today.
BURNETT: So, I just want to ask you, because this is also confusing. There are two things today, right? Theres the motion for detention, and then there's the actual indictment. In the indictment, as I mentioned, there are two counts. They are about transporting aliens. That's what they are about.
Yet in there, Simon, they talk about specifically, I was just thumbing through they talk about that he was transporting firearms illegally purchased in Texas. They don't charge for that. They talk about narcotics purchased in Texas being transported. They don't charge for that.
And the motion for detention, they go so far as to on page ten, Simon, say the government also learned that the defendant solicited nude photographs and videos of a minor beginning in approximately 2020, the government's investigation into the defendant's solicitation of child pornography is ongoing, and no charges against the defendant regarding child pornography have been filed, but it demonstrates the danger the defendant poses to the community, not just with respect to alien smuggling.
Have you seen something like this where they would put a whole bunch of things? I mean, that's a really serious thing you're alleging putting the words child pornography in here and you're not charging someone for it?
SANDOVAL-MOSHENBERG: Yeah. It just goes to show that they've been more interested in dragging his name through the mud than in actually sort of going through with proper court proceedings, just like it's been since day one. I mean, look, Mr. Abrego Garcia did not ask to become the center of this national commotion around his case. Right.
He was just driving his son home from daycare when he got pulled over. And then, you know, within a weekend, he was accidentally sent to El Salvador.
The government made a mistake. They could have quickly and quietly fixed the mistake. None of us, none of y'all would have ever heard his name right. But instead, they chose to make this into a national cause celebre, drag his name through the mud, and frankly, if they can do that to him, they can do that to any one of us.
BURNETT: All right, Simon, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much. I know you have a lot more to share as you get more information here over this next day or two. So, thank you so much.
And Ryan Goodman is with me now, OUTFRONT legal analyst.
So, can we just start where I just finished with Simon? They put in all these things you know, illegal guns and narcotics, and they mentioned this this they use the words "child pornography", and they say that shows the danger that the defendant poses to the community, even though they say they don't -- they don't have any charges on it because they don't -- they don't have it yet.
Have you -- is that normal to put things like this in these kinds of filings? Motion for detention and indictment when you don't charge them.
RYAN GOODMAN, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL AT DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE: It's abnormal. And then just to add one more piece of it, the attorney general of the United States of America today, in their public statement, also said that Abrego Garcia, according to one of the coconspirators, was involved in the murder of another gang member's mother. That's nowhere in the indictment, not even alleged in the indictment, let alone charged. So that kind of public disparagement of a defendant is highly unusual,
especially since it's not charged conduct or even mentioned as conduct in the indictment. So that seems to me to be an indication that it's running a public messaging campaign. It's not about --
BURNETT: Right, because let's be clear, the murder and the child pornography are both in the motion for detention.
GOODMAN: Yes.
BURNETT: Neither one of them are mentioned in the indictment.
GOODMAN: None at all.
BURNETT: Not only not charged, not mentioned.
GOODMAN: Not mentioned.
BURNETT: Okay. So when you take all of this together and the fact that they're suddenly bringing him back now when they said they couldn't, and Bukele said he wouldn't, but then he said, oh, I will whenever you want me to. And they said, you know, that that whole game of words that has been being played.
What -- why is this happening now?
GOODMAN: It's difficult to know why it's happening now. I do think it does strongly indicate that they could have always done this. And in fact, President Bukele's words were I'm not going to smuggle someone in.
In other words, I'm not going to send somebody that you don't want to have in the United States. So, if the United States says to his government we want him back, then he would say, we'll give him back. And also, the vice president of El Salvador said the same thing to Senator Van Hollen, that the ball is in your court. If we are told that you want these people back, we'll give you them. They were speaking specifically about Abrego Garcia. But he said in other cases, too.
BURNETT: Evan, reporting that the chief of the criminal section in Tennessee resigned. We're finding this out today after 15 years. Yeah. Does -- and I know you don't necessarily know this individual, right, but that happening right now as this is happening, what could that mean?
GOODMAN: So, for me, I didn't want to jump to any conclusions. I want to see what the evidence is in the case with respect to criminal charges. But when that news came out, it's a very significant indication that something bad is happening here. If were concerned about weaponization of the Justice Department, you do not have a 15 year veteran who's the chief of the criminal division resigned, and ABC News reports that he's resigned, apparently because he thinks that this case was brought for political reasons.
BURNETT: Right. So, in other words, he doesn't think all this adds up. [19:15:00]
GOODMAN: That's right. And he would be the person to know.
BURNETT: He would be the person to know.
All right. Well, Ryan, thank you very much. All very sobering.
And next, Trump says he wants to make a deal. A key member of his administration is about to meet face to face with Chinese officials in the next few hours. But how do the Chinese view Trump's inner circle? Fareed Zakaria is next.
Plus, Ukraine bracing for another round of strikes from Putin after the shocking drone assault on those Russian air bases.
And tonight, we have a special CNN investigation into how Ukraine is actually pulling off these frankly groundbreaking attacks.
And Trump, just speaking about his explosive blowup with Elon Musk. What is his response to Musk's attacks?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news, Trump announcing members of his cabinet will be traveling to London for a high stakes, face to face meeting with Chinese officials.
[19:20:01]
One of them is Howard Lutnick. Watch him here testifying to Congress that tariffs on bananas could be among the things going to zero if they are produced in America.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MADELEINE DEAN (D-PA): What's the tariff on bananas?
HOWARD LUTNICK, COMMERCE SECRETARY: The tariff on bananas would be representative of the countries that produce them.
DEAN: And what's that tariff?
LUTNICK: Generally, 10 percent.
DEAN: Correct. Ten percent. Walmart has already increased the cost of bananas by 8 percent and --
(CROSSTALK)
LUTNICK: As countries do deals with us that will go to zero.
Would you mind if I make one quick comment to the representative, please? There is no uncertainty. If you build in America and you produce your product in America, there will be no tariff.
DEAN: We can't produce bananas in America.
LUTNICK: So, the concept of building in America and paying no tariffs --
DEAN: We cannot --
LUTNICK: -- very, very clear.
DEAN: We cannot build bananas in America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OUTFRONT now, Fareed Zakaria, a host of CNN's "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS".
Fareed, that exchange you know, igniting, igniting conversation around the world. And Howard Lutnick has a very big role here in these discussions and all of them. Right. What is his reputation among the countries negotiating with Trump's team?
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": Well, he's been a markets guy. And so, he understands markets. But what I'm struck by about so many of the people around Trump, the some of the businessmen who are supporting him, let's assume that they are being honest, that they genuinely believe in this agenda.
What it suggests is they may understand business, they may even understand markets, but they don't understand economics. Economics comprises the entire economy.
And if they don't understand, for example, that the reason we have a trade deficit with a place like Madagascar is because Madagascar sells us a few products like vanilla, and we buy that from them because we're a rich country, we can buy anything from anyone but Madagascar, people are very, very poor. They can't buy iPhones, they can't buy, you know, the kind of things America makes. So, there's going to be a trade deficit. It's more a sign of our wealth than that somebody is dripping us.
And, you know, if Howard Lutnick doesn't understand that, he might be, you know, a smart businessman, but honestly, he just doesn't understand economics.
BURNETT: Yeah. Well, and bananas obviously fit into that category, as you point out, so perfectly. You know, Trump's trade adviser, Peter Navarro, as you know, is credited with a lot of the China tariffs and what supports them in terms of the Trump worldview. Okay.
And Peter Navarro said something today that does not add up in an interview. Let me just play it for you, Fareed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER NAVARRO, WHITE HOUSE TRADE ADVISER: We will have deals. It takes time. Usually, it takes months and years. In this administration, it's going to take more like days. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Fareed, liberation day was April 2nd. And that was, of course, 66 days ago. And this whole idea of sort of deals are done or done in days -- I mean, you know, we've heard this again and again, April 25th, Trump tells "Time Magazine", I've made all the deals. And then on May 1st, there was this from Kevin Hassett.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN HASSETT, DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm sure there'll be news by the end of the day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: That was 37 days ago. I'm just curious, Fareed, in this context, right. We keep hearing this again and again. Do other world leaders when it comes to tariffs here right now, take Trump's word seriously.
ZAKARIA: Not really. I mean, they take the United States and its power seriously. But they know with Trump, they have somebody who you know who says Trump's tariffs are going to be 150 percent. Then he says they're going to be 100 percent. Then, you know, he knows that. They know that it's all bluster.
More importantly, you know, the most important negotiations are between China, China and the European Union. And both those countries have powerful cards that they can play.
The Chinese, you know, they're used to doing this kind of thing. They're used to playing the long game. They have an economy that's built. They already suppress consumption, as you know, and they, you know, they -- it's an investment driven economy and export driven economy. If they -- if their people, you know, suffer a bit, it's not as big a deal as it is for us.
The European Union has enormous power to tax American services. You know, part of the bizarreness here is that Trump doesn't realize that America's real strength is its extraordinary service industry, software, software services, technology, entertainment, financial services. We dominate the world. We export $1 trillion worth of goods there.
Other countries could start taxing or tariffing that in retaliation. So, they have a lot of cards that they can play. They have a lot of leverage and they're not going to cry uncle, on any timetable that Peter Navarro sets for them.
BURNETT: Which is why I wonder when -- you know, why CEOs in America are behaving the way they're behaving.
[19:25:05]
And in general, that is behaving with public silence. And you wrote an op ed today that talks about that. The title is "Why CEOs are Silent in the Face of Trump's Destruction". And in it, you write, business leaders must deal with America the way they used to deal with Third World dictatorships, appease the supreme leader, and they are adjusting to this new model quietly, without much dissent.
And, you know, Fareed, I'm just thinking of conversations I've had with major CEOs recently, and they're wrestling. They're struggling with whether they should speak out or how or what are the repercussions of it.
Why do you think so many, almost all frankly, right, have chosen silence?
ZAKARIA: Well, I think it's shameful, frankly. It's a culture of silence and cowardice. They're all looking for, you know, very specifically at their companies and their bottom line. They're miscalculating. By the way, Trump can't do a lot of the things he threatens them with. He cannot tariff an individual company as he threatened Mattel and Apple.
If they were to collect together, with the Business Roundtable, the Chambers of Commerce, and forcefully present the view that they believe in that tariffs are taxes, that for every steel job you preserve with a steel tariff, you endanger 75 jobs because 75 industries that use steel like cars and construction, that's how the American economy works.
They've railed against uncertainty. Well, you now have a tsunami of uncertainty. They've railed against, you know, politicizing the economy. Well, now you have a president who says, come to me personally to the White House. His press secretary boasts that CEOs have to beg to come to the White House to get special deals and carve outs.
I mean, you know, are we in Kazakhstan or are we in the United States of America? By the way, that that might be insulting to Kazakhstan because it's actually running its economy reasonably well these days?
BURNETT: Fareed, thank you. Certainly something that will leave people with a lot to think about.
And you can catch, of course, all of "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS". It is this Sunday at 10 a.m. and 1 p.m. on CNN, as well as, of course, reading that op-ed.
And next, Ukraine bracing for a second wave of strikes after pulling a stunning attack deep inside Russia off. How did they do it? We have a special investigation next.
Plus, we're going to take you to one of the largest gatherings of UFO fanatics. And guess what? They are all counting on Trump to vouch for what they have witnessed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was like light, light, light, light, light, light. (END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:31:48]
BURNETT: Tonight, Ukraine on edge. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy sounding the alarm, warning that Putin's attack on Ukraine is not over. Bracing for what will come next. It comes after Russia's massive and widespread strikes overnight.
We have some dramatic new footage. You can see that there. More than 400 drones, 40 missiles fired across nine regions. And these are the scenes from Kyiv where explosions lit up the sky. This is one of the largest attacks of the war so far.
The strikes, it seems, a part of the response to Ukraine taking out so many of Russia's strategic bombers. They say 41 of Putin's bombers destroyed, all carried out by drones, a weapon that Ukraine, of course, has used to completely redefine warfare itself.
Katie Polglase is OUTFRONT with a CNN investigation into exactly how they're doing it right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATIE POLGLASE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This attack, more than 18 months in the making, is a sign of how Ukraine has changed the face of modern warfare, damaging air bases deep within Russian territory.
A CNN analysis of thousands of drone strikes on Russia over the past three years, along with video and an exclusive interview.
VALERY BOROVYK, FOUNDER OF FIRST CONTACT DRONES: We can coordinate our drones in Moscow, et cetera.
POLGLASE: -- sheds light on how Ukraine's drone program has rapidly expanded since the start of the war. In the first months, you can see the attacks are mainly along the border area, but by the end of the year they start hitting key military targets like this blast shown on surveillance footage at a fuel depot at Engels Airbase in December 2022. Five months later, and the missions become more ambitious. This bold drone attack in May 2023 even damaged the roof of the Kremlin, the heart of the Russian government and over 400 miles from Kyiv.
Drones are now frequently flying over Moscow, bringing the terror of war home to the Russian people. At the same time, Ukraine is maintaining pressure on Russia's war supplies wherever they are stored. In late summer of 2023, they target Pskov Air Base in northern Russia. Beyond Moscow, in satellite imagery taken shortly after, you can see the damaged planes.
By 2024, the number of drones getting sent into Russia is soaring. In June alone, over a thousand launched, according to CNN analysis. Ukraine's muscle comes from a coordinated national effort to make combat drones ready to be sent into Russia. We spoke exclusively to one of these manufacturers who told us how the
war kickstarted Ukraine's national drone unit.
BOROVYK: Now we -- I think Ukraine is leader in this area, in our world.
POLGLASE: Which drones were used last weekend is still a tight lipped secret, but experts say his drones are identical to those seen in images of the attack, and were most likely the ones used.
BOROVYK: We can produce very good drones for special missions, and we will protect our country from Russian aggression.
POLGLASE: He shares some extraordinary insights into how it was possible for Ukraine to target so deep into Russia, hitting an airbase 2,500 miles away.
[19:35:09]
Is it possible to remote control that drone from Ukraine while the drone was in Belaya Air Base, for example?
BOROVYK: No problem. We can coordinate our drones in Moscow, et cetera. We need to link across satellite, across mobile towers, or maybe our pilot will stay near Kremlin.
POLGLASE: And the success of the program is apparent by the damage left behind. Multiple air bases hit, some in Russia's far east. Ukraine claims it inflicted $7 billion worth of damage on Russian weaponry, though that number has not been verified.
Even so, the details of this stealthy operation are extraordinary. Drones smuggled in on wooden crates then driven across Russia in containers, catching locals by surprise as drones flew out of trucks to launch the assaults.
Russia now faces an even steeper challenge to its long-held dominance of the skies.
Katie Polglase, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: All right. And joining me now is Seth Jones, national security expert and president of the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
So, Seth, you have just returned from reviewing frontline drone footage. Youve done that with top military leadership from Ukraine. So, you've seen things that none of us have actually seen.
What stands out to you from that? From what you saw, from what you heard about what really happened on those air bases?
SETH JONES, PRESIDENT, DEFENSE & SECURITY DEPARTMENT, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC & INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: Well, Erin, what is really stunning is how the Ukrainians used the Russian logistics system, including their mobile network, to first to smuggle drones into Russia itself and then to use the mobile system and the satellite system from Russian territory as they conducted strikes. So, I mean, it's not just getting that -- those platforms into Russian territory, but it's also taking advantage of what was available in Russia to strike targets. I mean, he really shows how vulnerable countries can be if those kinds of drones are smuggled inside of those countries. Obviously, more than just Russia.
BURNETT: Right. Well, and that in that sense, a very sobering thing you just said there. So, when you're with that top military leadership, though, and, you know, we had those big attacks overnight, some of the biggest since the war began in Kyiv. Is that it? I mean, what do they think Putin is going to do?
I mean, Trump made it very clear that Putin was going to do something big and that ceasefires off and which it was never really on. But you get the point. What does Ukraine think is going to happen?
JONES: Well, Erin, I think there are a few things. One is the Ukrainian leadership. And I talked to the head of the office of the president while he was in Washington this week. They do expect the Russians to conduct a range of cruise missile, ballistic missile and drone strikes against cities including Kyiv, in large numbers. That's the way the Russians respond.
I don't think they expect to see any kind of a nuclear response. Although Putin routinely threatens those. But I think at the end of the day, the problem that the Russians have is they are not effectively conducting military operations. They're dying in really historic numbers, at least since World War II.
And so, I think that's what -- that's the Ukrainian response is to keep fighting them on the ground. And that's where the Russians really are at their biggest weakness.
BURNETT: Okay. So, on that, you know, we haven't heard that sort of an argument in a while. In fact, what we've heard is that in a war of attrition, Russia will win because they have more men. And it's just that simple. And that it boils down to numbers, and the numbers are horrible, but they don't favor Ukraine. So, the longer this continues, the more it favors Russia, right? That has become the narrative right out there.
But you've got new reporting and that and you're talking about struggles on the front line for Putin's forces to advance. Youve got numbers on the equipment that they've lost a lot more equipment than Ukraine, that the casualty numbers now approach a million for Russia. In fact, you gave us a chart that shows the daily average of casualties since the war began.
And it all challenges the narrative that Putin can just continue and afford to go on indefinitely. You know, when you went through and looked at all these numbers right now, which do challenge the current narrative, what surprised you the most? JONES: Erin, there were two things that surprised me and the and one
of them was, was one of the numbers that the president himself remarked out of our report in the oval office yesterday. One was just the sheer casualties that the Russians have suffered. Nearly a million -- they'll hit the million mark by June or July.
[19:40:01]
And also in a historical perspective, the Russians have lost now more than five times the number of soldiers than in all Russian wars combined between the end of World War II and the beginning of their full scale invasion in February 2022. I mean, 77-year period versus a three-year period, a little over a three-year-period. Still five times the number that they've lost over the last three years. I mean, it's just stunning in it's in its significance.
And also, the other thing that was that was interesting in what we found was how little territory and how slow the advance of the Russians has been, slower than some of the most grinding and grisly offensive during World War I.
BURNETT: Wow. And you know, when we hear about those and just the sheer death and suffering in that war, trench warfare, where of course, its trench warfare here again.
Seth, thank you so much.
JONES: Thanks, Erin.
BURNETT: And next, Trump is just moments ago addressing his public blowup with Elon Musk. So what's he now saying about his one-time number two?
Plus, our Donie O'Sullivan takes us to one of the largest gatherings of UFO believers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two very tall, Nordic looking beings and had a couple of little short grays on each side.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:45:36]
BURNETT: Breaking news, Trump speaking out about his spectacular blowup with Elon Musk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: What's your view on Elon Musk as of today? Have you heard from him at all?
TRUMP: Honestly, I've been so busy working on China, working on Russia, working on Iran, working on so many that I'm not thinking about Elon.
REPORTER: Do you have any plans to speak with Mr. Musk? This was one of your closest advisers.
TRUMP: Yeah. No, I don't have any plans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: A source, though, just telling CNN that Trump is thinking about Musk and in fact, is asking aides and advisers about Musk's recent behavior and whether it could be related to his alleged drug use.
Drug use, which "The New York Times" reported last week went well beyond occasional use. So much so that they report that Musk had bladder problems and they say that this was happening, as Musk rose to prominence in Trump's inner circle, including Musk allegedly telling people that the ketamine amount that he was the ketamine was what was affecting his bladder. They even had a photo of the pills in "The New York Times" story.
Musk did admit in March of last year that he took ketamine. He said at the time, though, it was occasionally, and it was with a prescription. And after the report, denied taking any drugs. That's after "The New York Times" report.
Kara Swisher is OUTFRONT, host of "On" and pivot podcast and obviously has covered Musk extensively for years.
So, Kara, you know, Trump is out there. He is thinking about Musk. But in a very specific way, right. Talking about his alleged drug use and stirring the pot on all of that.
What does that mean for Musk? If Trump's going to go out there and he's going to go there?
KARA SWISHER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, he didn't precisely go there. His aides went there off the record. You know, sources close to President Trump said --
BURNETT: Yeah.
SWISHER: -- which is obviously him, who knows who it is. But he said yesterday, I said the next thing he's going to do is focus in on the drugs, and they're doing everything to sort of warn Musk. You know, you better keep it quiet or else we have things we could do.
But the problem is this is a guy who doesn't care obviously that much. Now, he certainly has a lot of government contracts and other things that he has to pay attention to, especially shareholders. But he is not someone that is easily, you know, scared. I think we'll see. I mean, he may think it's smart to stop fighting with Donald Trump. It probably is a good idea for Donald Trump to stop fighting with Elon Musk, too, because no one's going to win in this particular fight.
BURNETT: So, you know, yesterday when Musk was Defcon, he went there on his on his, you know, the kind of, you know, as Trump goes to drugs, Musk goes there on Epstein and he says that Trump is in the Epstein files. He calls it a bomb.
And I guess the question is, Kara. He said, you know, save this post, right. Will he follow through on this claim? I mean, do you think he'll do anything more with it? Do you think he has more attacks that rise to that level?
SWISHER: He could. He could. He often uses the pedophile kind of thing. He's done that a number of times. It's one -- everyone has their go-tos and Donald Trump's has his. And you know, people are saying, I have heard this stuff.
So, you know, I don't know if he will I don't know if he has those. I mean, certainly it's been reported, you know, they had a relationship for a long time before they had a falling out.
So perhaps there are files he has. He's the world's richest man. He certainly can buy them if they exist. And the question is will he use them or anything else? Or somehow, they get leaked or anything like that? It's just the whole thing is ridiculous.
I mean, it's not good for either of them, especially when the president's trying to pass a bill that Elon is against. But it's all -- it's all circus at this point.
BURNETT: Yeah. Well, right. It's obviously -- well, it's not good for the country and it's not good that the -- your contracts with the government could come down to whether one person likes you or not. I mean, it's really against everything that it should be. But, you know, I guess this brings me to kara, what we've seen.
So, we talk about, you know, all those tech CEOs that that came to the inauguration. Right? And they were all there, and there were ones there who cannot stand Trump. And I'm not going to pick out which ones here.
But they were all there. Mark Zuckerberg was there, Jeff Bezos was there. Tim Cook was there, CEO of google was there. They were all there. He goes to Saudi Arabia and them and a whole lot of others are there. And its sort of, you know, one at a time, gets to walk up and kind of, you know, bow and yeah, you know, this is what it takes.
So, when they watch this and you know, all of them, you cover all of them, do they see this and say, oh, now, it's my opportunity to jump in and fill the Musk void. Do they -- do they get more scared of Trump? Do they -- do any of them think? Actually, no. I'll speak up. I mean, what's the ripple effect of this?
[19:50:02]
SWISHER: You know, most of them aren't like Elon Musk. Elon Musk takes risks compared to other people, good and bad. Right? He's -- this is what he's known for. And he's -- it's in fact true whether it's rockets or stuff he says on Twitter. You know, these people are pretty craven and they are interested in
shareholder value and they want to get in on the A.I. stuff. So they'll do what it takes to kiss up to Trump. At the same time, you're not going to see him sleeping in the Lincoln bedroom or hanging out at the White House, or wearing hats or jumping up and down. That's not what they're going to do, but they'll certainly be as obsequious as they need to until they don't.
And then Donald Trump will have a whole new experience with these tech CEOs. When they don't need him, he'll be they will care about him at all. So we'll see.
I mean, obviously they're not going to try to become his best friend or be his, I don't know, the first, first buddy or whatever the heck that was.
BURNETT: I don't know what it was. The first joint interview there.
SWISHER: I don't know what it was. I mean, it feels like a dream. It's a dream. It's a simulation. I don't know.
BURNETT: All right, Kara, it's good to see you. And thanks so much.
SWISHER: Thank you.
BURNETT: Kara Swisher.
And next, we'll take you to a convention for UFO enthusiasts. And they are all banking on Trump to do what no one else has done, and that is to release the governments secret files on the topic.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:55:21]
BURNETT: Tonight, President Trump giving hope to UFO enthusiasts around the country, all looking to him to open up long secret U.S. files on extraterrestrial life.
Donie O'Sullivan is OUTFRONT at a major UFO conference with more on why they think that Trump may finally deliver.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Greetings. Do you all come in peace. We're all fellow earthlings here.
We're out here because we're looking for UFOs. We're also looking for what is not a UFO.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just put it right over it and then.
O'SULLIVAN: Oh, see that one?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That was a bird, I think.
O'SULLIVAN: Oh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I knew I was going to be an astronomer when I was nine years old. Okay? I actually had a missing time event. I lost a whole day, and it put me in the hospital. And I thought, boy, this universe is something crazy up there. I have to -- I have to keep looking up.
O'SULLIVAN: We are here in the California desert on our way to contact in the desert. The biggest gathering of ufologists in the world.
Here we are, light years past the question whether we are alone in the universe. Instead, people share stories of encounters.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was like light, light, light, light, light, light, light.
O'SULLIVAN: Abductions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two very tall Nordic looking beings and had a couple of little short grays on each side.
O'SULLIVAN: And things they just can't explain.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you see orbs dancing in the sky like they're skipping across water, that's not military.
O'SULLIVAN: But there is still one debate to be had. Everybody's talking about what the Trump administration is going to tell the world about UFOs.
Stephen, you say we're on the cusp of a major disclosure event.
STEVE BASSETT, UFO LOBBYIST: The disclosure event.
O'SULLIVAN: The disclosure event.
BASSETT: Right.
O'SULLIVAN: Brought about by --
BASSETT: The disclosure president is going to be Donald Trump. And the reason for that is he is the president who got the last year when the music stopped, the first head of state that confirms that we're not alone gets one of the greatest political legacies of all time.
O'SULLIVAN: Do you think he's the kind of president we might enjoy having an incredible legacy like that?
BASSETT: And I think so.
O'SULLIVAN: Trump didn't make this massive announcement in his first term.
BASSETT: Right.
O'SULLIVAN: What gives you confidence that he'll do it this time around?
BASSETT: Second time around, right. This time not with a lot of carryovers that are in there to kind of keep them, you know, guardrails and crap. Now, this is maybe the most important thing I can tell you right now.
Anna Paulina Luna, she says the UAP issue is the most bipartisan investigation in the history of the United States.
REP. ANNA PAULINA LUNA (R-FL): We'll be conducting investigations into the following.
O'SULLIVAN: As part of Trump's promises for greater transparency from JFK to Epstein to UFOs, he created a task force chaired by Representative Luna, on the declassification of federal secrets. It's a promise Jeremy Corbell has dedicated his life to helping fulfill.
You are responsible for bringing people to Congress to testify on this, something now that people are taking seriously.
JEREMY CORBELL, INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: You're going to blame me for that?
O'SULLIVAN: I'm going to blame you.
CORBELL: Look, yeah, it was ingrained in our kind of society that this is not something to be taken seriously. I'd say the interest is now surging a little bit, because people that are serious can come forward and seriously talk about it.
O'SULLIVAN: Say some of the most optimistic people we've spoken to here this week have said they think Trump is going to come out an Oval Office address and say, here it is.
CORBELL: So I just -- I don't feel the same way. I haven't seen evidence that the new administration, new-ish administration is actually going to make good on that promise.
O'SULLIVAN: For many here, what are Trump's government discloses? What it really knows is of lesser importance. The truth is coming anyway.
BASSETT: So, the public's awareness on all fronts is just growing, growing, growing. But the Internet sealed its fate. That's the world we live in. You want to put out a piece of disinformation by the government? Fine. The Internet will shred it in a day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you told someone this 20 years ago, how do you think they would have reacted?
O'SULLIVAN: They say you're crazy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you. Thats why.
O'SULLIVAN: So what's changed?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This community. O'SULLIVAN: Community.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yep. Our community. This community. That's what changed. People waking up and going, we need to talk about this.
Yes, we do. We need to talk about it a lot because it's coming whether we are ready or not. So --
O'SULLIVAN: Donie O'Sullivan, CNN, Planet Earth.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Thanks to Donie for that amazing report. And thanks to all of you for being with us on a Friday.
Anderson starts now.
