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Erin Burnett Outfront
Just Into OutFront: Dispatch Audio As Floodwaters Take Over Central Texas; Judge Blocks Trump From Enforcing Birthright Citizenship Ban; Trump's Budget Chief: Powell Has "Grossly Mismanaged The Fed". Aired 7-8p ET
Aired July 10, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:22]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
The breaking news, new dispatch audio into OUTFRONT this hour, the first time that we hearing firefighters and first responders sounding the alarm about the flooding in Texas, near the moment a firefighter calls for a code red 90 minutes before a code red alert was issued to the public.
Plus, more breaking news. A major blow to Trump's agenda tonight and his quest to end birthright citizenship in the United States. A judge tonight issuing a nationwide block against Trump's order. And the lead attorney who argued against Trump is OUTFRONT.
And also tonight, an apparent assassination. A Ukrainian intelligence official gunned down, all of this actually caught on camera as Putin is now launching another unprecedented attack on Ukraine.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
And OUTFRONT tonight, we begin with the breaking news on that code red. We have new dispatch audio just into the show tonight. And this is the first time that we have aired here at CNN this crucial audio, and what it reveals is first responders and how they were trying to save lives. The terrifying, critical hours as they were rushing to save lives as those flood waters were surging in central Texas.
The floods we now know, have killed at least 121 people, 160 are still missing and unaccounted for at this hour as the search continues.
So, let's start with this audio that we are just getting in. I'm going to play it for you for the first time. Well before the code red, which came all the way, you know, 6:00 in the morning or close to then, this is the audio of a volunteer firefighter out there trying to save lives, 3:27 a.m. on Friday morning, July 4th.
Listen for yourself.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTER: Yes, ma'am. Just 3:43 (ph), the Guadalupe is starting to come up and Schumacher is no longer passable at this time.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: Talking about roads already being closed, being flooded out, I'm going to speak to the man who recorded all of this in just a moment, because he's the former I.T. director for Kerr County. He helped to install the code red system that's in place, and he said that that that you just heard very calmly delivered from that firefighter at 3:27 a.m., though, should have signaled a massive emergency because what it meant when he said Schumacher is no longer passable meant that emergency responders could no longer get to the city of Hunt from the East.
So, at that moment, he said that was crucial. And from that moment on, the waters were rising fast.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DISPATCH: Respond to 2029 Highway 39, 2029 Highway 39. It's going to be for a water rescue. House caller's house flooded. We're getting multiple calls off of 39, people are stating their houses are flooding. We're trying to advise them to get to higher area.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: Multiple calls off that road 39. And then at 4:30, that firefighter on the ground calls in and asks for that formal code red.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTER: Is there any way we can send a code red out to our Hunt residents, asking them to find higher ground or stay home?
DISPATCH: Ten four, standby. We have to get that approved with our supervisor.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right, you hear that exchange. It would be 90 minutes from that call to when Kerrville mayor told "The Texas Tribune" that he finally received that code red alert. During that time, roughly 30- foot wall of water decimated communities and children's camps along the Guadalupe River, and the 911 calls that you just heard referred to there on that emergency dispatch line, the 911 calls did not stop.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DISPATCH: We've received a phone call at our fire station. We have a lady. She's frantic. She's at Casa Bonita 117 Corto Way or Casa Bonita lodges. And she said her children are on top of one of the cabanas, and they're trapped.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: The terrifying calls one after the other, coming as right now, the painstaking search for 160 people still known to be missing is ongoing.
They're looking right now as were talking, and it's entering the eighth day. We are also getting a startling new image of the terror that so many had to endure during this storm. We'll show you this picture. This is from the boy's camp, La Junta, right nearby, about five miles north of Camp Mystic, Camp Mystic, where, of course, 27 counselors, 27 kids and counselors were known to have been killed.
Here, though this is in Camp Junta, you can see five kids clinging onto the rafters. I mean, look at them up there. If you can just look at that picture, clinging to the rafters in their cabin to survive.
[19:05:01]
A mother of one of them tells us that a counselor helped the kids climb onto those wooden beams once the water had reached the top bunks, and there was nowhere else for them to go, they couldn't get out. Thank God in that situation, everyone was safely evacuated.
All those children are safe. We're going to have much more on this dispatch audio in just a moment, along with the man who recorded all of it.
But first, Isabel Rosales is OUTFRONT. She is in Center Point, Texas, on the desperate search for the missing.
And, Isabel, another 24 hours. Still, no one else is found, but still at least 160 missing?
ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Erin, that is correct. And what I've seen here is a relentless, coordinated effort at the local, state and federal level, also including volunteers. We've been here for days now, and at this particular RV resort since this morning.
It's incredible seeing the hour by hour, real time evolution of the progress, the progress -- excuse me, that they're making, moving all sorts of major debris like campers like this out of the way to make sure that they're checking that nothing and nobody has been left behind.
But at the same time, to what you were saying, Erin, a grim fact that they haven't found anyone alive here in Kerr County for six days now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JORDY MARKS, OWNER, LA DRONE SERVICES: You hear the dog barking right now.
ROSALES (voice-over): A hit from a cadaver dog.
So, you're thinking that there could be remains in there?
MARKS: Yes, ma'am. Possibly.
ROSALES: Sends Jordy Marks and his team into action. The private drone company owner launching a surveillance drone over the Guadalupe River to aid the Cajun Navy and first responders in their search.
MARKS: We just heard the dogs get a hit. So I scanned that area and make sure, you know, just make sure there's nothing there.
ROSALES: With more than 2,000 emergency workers on the ground, the search for the missing intensifying nearly a week after floods devastated this idyllic part of Central Texas.
MARKS: What I'm looking for is anything different in the water, anything that stands out in the water. I'm going to zoom in the area.
ROSALES: It took days for the drones to get authorization to join the search after a private drone operating in the restricted airspace over the flood area struck an emergency helicopter on Monday, it was forced to make an emergency landing and all drones were grounded. From what has proven to be a challenging search for the second day in a row, there remains at least 160 people still missing.
MARKS: The current was so strong. I think they -- it took people and put them beneath the debris and the people that just trapped in the debris and the water, the water is receding. Then we start seeing more people.
ROSALES: Now, they join teams continuing their search in the water and on the ground.
Heavy machinery doing the heavy lifting, flipping over river swept vehicles. FEMA task force is now on site, setting up command along the Guadalupe River. Search crews wading its waters moving debris piece by piece. Cadaver dogs actively scanning miles of riverbanks. Helicopters assisting overhead while ambulances wait on site, all in the grim search for victims of the flood.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The efforts get more complicated by the day. We covered a lot of area, but now, it's the detailed work of getting through all this debris and destruction and making sure that we find every last victim.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROSALES (on camera): And it's not lost on people, the gravity of the situation, 160 people missing. But really, that is also a focus on bringing closure to these families. There's a FEMA task force that set up a command post right here at this RV resort that's been destroyed. They're wrapping up for the day, Erin, but they will be back tomorrow.
BURNETT: All right. Isabel, thank you so much, on the ground there.
And let's go now to John David Trolinger. He's the former information technology director for Kerr County. He told us he helped install the code red system.
And I really appreciate your time, John, because I know you were there listening, right? You were listening to these calls start to come in on dispatch. You were, you know, recorded that, and shared the audio that we have been playing for, for viewers. So, you know how the whole system works. As you're monitoring the
scanner traffic, the floods start, you know, you do this as a hobby. You know, you listen to this, so everyone understands that.
When you first heard something that signaled to you, there is a problem, right? I understand it was at 3:27 a.m. I want to play what you heard at that time.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTER: Yes, ma'am. Just 3:43 (ph), the Guadalupe is starting to come up and Schumacher is no longer passable at this time.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: So, John, when you hear Guadalupe starting to come up, Schumacher is no longer passable at this time, you knew emergency. How come?
JOHN DAVID TROLINGER, FORMER IT DIRECTOR FOR KERR COUNTY, TEXAS: Well, that's the main highway that goes into Hunt. And that means EMS, fire, the sheriff's office can't get there.
[19:10:01]
There might be a couple of small roads that are still passable to go around, but it's a long way. But with the -- with the way it was raining, I knew that the river was coming up and that those low water crossings from there out to the west were already flooded because I've been through that before. I've been in the sheriff's office dispatch when it occurred previously and us keeping minute by minute updates as the sheriff directed me to -- as the previous sheriff here also directed me to update the website, to keep the public informed.
BURNETT: So are you saying as early as 3:27 a.m., that -- that things could have played out very differently in terms of alerts and code reds and, and frankly, just to be blunt, hundreds possibly of lives saved.
TROLINGER: Well, it's too late for Hunt. The water is up and the volunteer fire department guys been there. He knew it was coming because he's awake and he's sitting in his truck looking at it.
But the waters come up and the wall of water is heading down to Ingram. So you hear some radio traffic and a little bit that's going to warn people that warned to tone out Ingram that they need to start evacuating the RV park down river.
And I fully believe that a really quick action could have -- and I'm not going to hindsight at all, but a quick action could have helped people down river. But at 3:30, once it hit 4:30, it was just too late. The code red would have been ineffective in my opinion.
BURNETT: And -- and when you talk about the lives that could have been saved in those RV parks, I mean, we still don't know 160 people are missing, right? We don't know where they may have died. We're going to find out.
But I want to play again. Something else that stood out to you. This is a little bit later, John. So, this is at 5:11 a.m. here's what you heard.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got one female pulled out of the water. If you'll have more units come down to the end of rolling trail and go through the gate. She's going to need medical attention.
DISPATCH: Ten-four, we're getting EMS in.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: So that's 5:11 a.m., John, the mayor said that he didn't get the code alert until 6:00 a.m., right? So, 50 minutes later, 49 minutes later.
When you heard that at 5:11 a.m., what did you think? Obviously, you still hadn't gotten a code red.
TROLINGER: Well, at that point, Erin, the weather alert radar or the weather reporting from the National Weather Service and all the other things, I had three radios going. It was just so busy that, you know, it all scrambled together. I didn't even think about, you know what? What could be done at that point, other than I might be able to call in to dispatch. I had that thought briefly, but this first responder, he went in the river.
I was listening to all these little bits of traffic that not -- not everything was captured on the recorder, but that first responder went into the flooded Guadalupe River. And my family's been here for a very long time. I know exactly what it looks like when it floods, so I can picture it. And he could have easily died, but instead he rescued that woman. He pulled her out. Those are the people that really need the attention here.
BURNETT: I mean, the heroic acts of those first responders. And I -- and I know that the sheriff has said were going to learn more and more about them, and hopefully we will the individuals who are willing to, you know, to allow us to know what they did, because of course, they did it with the expectation no one would ever know they did it, because that's who they are and what they do.
When do you think, John, that an alert should have been sent? And do you think that it would have saved? I don't know, maybe all -- all of the lives lost, some of them. I mean, how do you see this when you take a step back?
TROLINGER: Well, I've only got my direct experience with Sheriff Hierholzer and dispatch and just how attuned he was to informing the public. I'm not going to second guess the dispatchers or the sheriff, but certainly when the National Weather Service and the Texas Emergency Management Agency Operations Center are staffing up, someone needs to be paying attention and prepare people in our county for a, you know, for an emergency. Someone should be ready at 1:00 when the weather service said that it's going to -- there's going to be a flash flood.
So, the 1:00 a.m. National Weather Service call would be my, you know, my pick that that would be the latest that an alert could have gone out to the public that could have saved lives.
[19:15:07]
BURNETT: Of course, that's five hours earlier than it did. And, you know, you think about those hours, you listen to this, you listen to it that night. But now listening to it, I know it's -- you get emotional because you hear those voices. You know, some of those people may have survived, some did not. What is it like listening to all of this again?
TROLINGER: Well, I've been able to heal up a little bit on Sunday. I had a lot of my -- my shipmates from when I was in the navy. I had a lot of people that I've been able to connect with. I've gone up to the church, I've thanked first responders.
But, you know, even after that day on Sunday, it's still, you know, what I'm seeing? I see the kids at the soccer field and their soccer coach and their family. It's just -- you know, I stopped for the first time ever. And, you know, I go running around the soccer field a lot. They see me out there all the time.
And on Monday, I stopped and talked to those kids and told them that, you know, I thought really well of the coach and I was glad they were out there. It was noon, it was very hot, and we were all just getting it out of our system, getting exercise to, you know, helps a lot, Erin, to do that exercise and diet.
BURNETT: John, thank you very much. I appreciate your time and thank you for sharing all of that with us to hear, you know, in the -- in the moment, the raw, unfiltered moment of what happened. So, thank you.
TROLINGER: You're welcome.
BURNETT: And I want to go to Shimon Prokupecz OUTFRONT in Ingram, Texas.
Because, Shimon, you know, John David there is talking about Ingram and how its downriver from where those initial calls came from, as we were playing some of what he had recorded that night, you heard his ultimate conclusion was that 1:00 a.m. is the time he would identify when the National Weather Service had issued its warning, that that's when he would have gone ahead with a code red, that that could have saved many lives.
What are you learning about all of this? The decision making, the timing?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So, here's the thing, Erin -- we don't know on the county level. And I think it's good that he was being so specific here, because we do know that people at the Texas Department of Emergency Management professionals, a pretty -- an agency that has a lot of credibility, was sounding the alarm two days before this, on July 2nd and talking about resources available and moving resources into this area and getting ready. They were getting ready for what could possibly be.
But the problem is, it appears up to this point that no one in the city, no one in the county, was doing the same thing. While the state is sending out alerts and telling people, go and listen to your local authorities, listen to the people in your community. The law enforcement, the people who are supposed to protect you. See what they're saying, monitor what they're saying and follow their instructions.
And it seems that that never happened. And the fact that at 1:00 a.m. that is so key, because that's something that I've been asking about because at 1:00 a.m. and normally what happens is if you have an emergency operation center, if you know there's a concern over flash flooding, someone is up, someone is monitoring it, someone is talking to meteorologists, someone is talking to people along the river who could possibly be monitoring what is happening, where you are, what is happening, where you are, and they are anticipating and they are anticipating the worst. And that's how emergency management works.
And you at least give people the option if they want to evacuate. You give them that option. You say to them, do what you need to do, and if you need to get up and you need to get out, get out. But there was no option here. These people went to bed with their little kids, expecting everything was going to be okay.
And in the middle of the night, they get woken up by screams and by flashing lights. Those are the people I spoke to who told me that is how they knew something was wrong.
BURNETT: Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, talk to someone in a camper, right? They hear the screaming. Ten minutes later, their RV is gone. They're alive. That's the miracle. So many around them are not.
Shimon, thank you very much, on the ground in Ingram, down river, where, of course, you know, an earlier warning of what was happening upriver could have made a difference, as we try to understand what happened.
Bill Weir is up next, just upstream from Camp Mystic. You know, he was there. He has new reporting on just how many structures at that camp were built in harm's way when you think about a flash flood, something the government models do not account for.
Plus, a devastating blow to Trump's efforts to end birthright citizenship. It is a crucial moment.
[19:20:00]
The lead attorney, who argued against Trump is next.
And also this hour, an extraordinary attack from Trump's administration, the White House claiming that the chairman of the Federal Reserve is grossly mismanaged the Fed.
The president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago will be OUTFRONT tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news, a potentially fatal blow for President Trump's laser-focused push to end birthright citizenship in the United States. A federal judge just blocking Trump's executive order from being enforced. Now, it's very specific, right? Again, blocking the order against birthright citizenship, but it applies to any -- against any baby born on or after February 20th of this year.
Judge Joseph Laplante was appointed by then President George W. Bush. He is the Judge issuing this ruling. And he is saying that this was not even a close call in a passionate ruling where he also says in part, and I'll quote from it, "For families across America today, birthright citizenship represents the promise that their children can achieve their full potential as Americans. It is the greatest privilege that exists in the world, and that's what makes it irreparable harm."
Now, this decision is obviously hugely significant because the issue is core to Trump himself. But the context is crucial as well, because it comes just weeks after the Supreme Court limited the power of lower court judges to issue nationwide injunctions against Trump policies, right, expanding the power of the executive branch.
Cody Wofsy is OUTFRONT now. He was the lead attorney for the ACLU, which took this case on.
So, Cody, I guess let's just take a step back here first. This ruling comes down today from this judge, Judge Laplante, appointed by George W. Bush. How big of a loss do you think this is for President Trump and his administration? Because, of course, the president has made ending birthright citizenship a core push.
CODY WOFSY, DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE ACLU IMMIGRANTS' RIGHTS PROJECT: Absolutely. And thanks so much for having me.
This is a major win in the fight against the Trump administration's executive order. Essentially, the Supreme Court's decision left open the very real possibility that that order could be applied to children as soon as a couple of weeks from now. What this decision means is that the executive order cannot be applied to anyone, and that not a single child could be denied their birthright citizenship under the executive order.
BURNETT: Okay, so now I want to get to whether this will hold, right? But the White House is slamming Judge Laplante. They're calling it an obvious and unlawful attempt to circumvent the Supreme Court's clear order against universal relief. And I guess I'll just try to put it in English, right?
The Supreme Court just said that district court judges can't come out in one district and issue nationwide injunctions against the president, against executive orders, unless there is a class right, a class action that would go across broader jurisdictions, right? Trying to put it in English. The Trump administration says that the judge's decision here disregards the rule of law by abusing class action certification procedures. They go on to say that they will fight this vigorously.
Do you think they could be right?
WOFSY: Absolutely not. Look, the Supreme Court's decision essentially said were going to limit the availability of broad court orders like this unless you have a class action. And so, what we've done is really just take our marching orders from the Supreme Court in terms of what the next steps would be. We brought a class action and the court certified the class.
This is very routine in federal court. These kinds of classes, including classes across the entire country, happen all the time in all sorts of issues. And so, the administration can disagree with that. It can complain about it. It can take the issue up on appeal, even to the Supreme Court if it would like, but it will lose. This is a very typical, very well-supported class-wide injunction. And we have every belief that we are going to prevail on it at the end of the day.
BURNETT: Well, it'd be hard to find a broader class than anybody born after February 20th. I mean, you have babies and obviously, all 50 states. Birthright citizenship, though, as you know, is something President Trump has made a center point, right? He has repeatedly talked about the fact that he thinks it isn't fair and that it needs to end.
Here are just a few of the times he's made it clear how he feels.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Hundreds of thousands of people are pouring into our country under birthright citizenship, and it wasn't meant for that reason. I signed an order that will end birthright citizenship for the children of illegal aliens. We're the only country in the world that does this with birthright, as you know. And it's just absolutely ridiculous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So, Cody, they aren't going to give up, right? This could go to the Supreme Court, the very Supreme Court that just broadened the entire concept of executive power. So, is this going to be the ultimate test for this court?
WOFSY: Look, it's clear that the Trump administration doesn't like birthright citizenship. The problem for them is that it's written into the Constitution, that the text of the Constitution is clear, the history is clear. The precedent is clear. So, can they take the issue up to the Supreme Court? Quite likely, yes. Will they win? Absolutely not.
And I think it's extremely telling that we just had a case about birthright citizenship order with full oral arguments, lots and lots of opinions, dozens of pages of writing from various justices. Not one justice suggested that this executive order is legal, and that's because the case against it on the merits is really crystal clear.
[19:30:10]
What the Trump administration wants in the CASA case was a procedural victory that essentially created a roadblock. We've now done what we need to do cross our T's on the procedural issue, and were back in the position of having a court order blocking this cruel and unconstitutional executive order across the board.
BURNETT: And I guess eventually forcing them to see what they will say on the substance, as you say, as opposed to just the procedure of power and injunction.
All right. Thank you so much, Cody. Appreciate your time. Thank you.
WOFSY: Thank you.
BURNETT: And also, tonight we have new emails from a DOJ whistleblower. And these reveal that top DOJ and homeland security officials actively worked to labor label Kilmar Abrego Garcia. You may remember him. The man from Maryland who was wrongfully deported.
These emails show that they portrayed him as an MS-13 gang leader, and that they did that with no apparent evidence to back it up. One ICE official writing in emails that now are out there. Quote, I have not found anything indicating, quote, leader, end quote, but I'll keep looking.
Whistleblower Erez Reuveni is a 15-year DOJ veteran. He was fired after expressing doubts in court about Abrego Garcia deportation and tonight is revealing that a top DOJ official suggested the administration might tell the federal court, quote, F you of any replies. Guess we're going to say F you to the court. Super.
OUTFRONT now, Simon Sandoval Moshenberg, attorney for Kilmar Abrego Garcia.
So, Simon, these emails come out and this is at the heart of it because from the very beginning of this case, anybody watching may remember that the Trump administration said, okay, maybe it was an administrative mistake or whatever, but this guy is a bad guy. He's domestic violence and he's a gang leader.
And at the core of all of it, before they even started with the domestic violence, was gang leader, right? They desperately tried to portray your client as a, quote, leader of MS-13.
And you can see in that whistleblower email that there's actually an email where they say, I haven't found anything to support leader, but I'm still looking. And that when the whistleblower objected to how they were handling it, he was met with resistance -- very clear resistance.
So, what do you think about the fact that you're now looking at these emails in black and white?
SIMON SANDOVAL-MOSHENBERG, ATTORNEY FOR KILMAR ABREGO GARCIA: Yeah, it's good to be back, Erin. Thanks for having me.
It's really not a surprise at all. It's very been very clear from the get-go that the government is trying to make an example out of Kilmar Abrego Garcia. It's not clear why, but it's clear that that's what they're trying to do. This is a case that never should have gone this far, right? This is a case that could have, you know, they made a mistake. They needed to fix the mistake.
But they've been far more interested in, like you said, saying f you to the judicial system and sort of defending their power to do whatever they want to whomever they want, whenever they want, without any judge telling them otherwise. That's really what their priority and for whatever reason, they've chosen to use this case to make that stand.
BURNETT: So, when the other part of the exchange that I just shared, a top DOJ official allegedly says the administration might tell the federal courts, and he says he puts this in quotes, there's an email, F you, to which he replies, yes, were going to say F you to the court. Super.
Does it surprise you to see something like that? Put actually in print that you know that that the DOJ would say F you to the federal courts?
SANDOVAL-MOSHENBERG: Yeah, I mean, they usually don't put it down in email what they're doing, but it's been their strategy since day one is to essentially to say F you to the judicial system, not just in the Abrego Garcia case, but also in the Alien Enemies Act cases and in so many other cases where, you know, courts have ordered them to do things and, you know, for example, the case of the individuals who were deported to South Sudan, so many cases in which they've just blatantly disobeyed court orders, and the Abrego Garcia case is really just the tip of the spear.
BURNETT: So let me just ask you, you spoke personally with your client about what he says happened inside that prison. He says in El Salvador, he says that he was stripped naked, beaten, forced to kneel for hours. He lost 31 pounds in two weeks.
The president of El Salvador disputes all of that. He's put out a video saying, oh, he was not tortured. None of this happened. And by the way, if it did, he wouldn't look fine in every picture. Why would he look like he gains weight if he's saying he lost 31 pounds in two weeks? Okay, so when you look at the denial, but you've talked to your client, where do you come out on this?
SANDOVAL-MOSHENBERG: Yeah, I think the video put out by president of El Salvador almost proves our point, because it's a video of the second facility that he was sent to after it became apparent that he was a high-profile individual, you know, that the eyes of the world were upon him.
[19:35:07] They sent him to a different facility on the other end of the country. And that's all the video. There's not a single second of video from the CECOT, the black hole torture facility where he was held for the first several weeks. So, if anything, it almost proves our point.
But interestingly, he explained that the biggest, you know, the biggest concern he had was not so much the physical beatings, the malnutrition, it was the psychological torture of the guards telling him, we're going to throw you in the general population. We're going to throw you in with all those gang members, and they're going to tear you limb from limb.
That's really what affected him the most.
BURNETT: Simon, thank you very much. I appreciate your time, as always.
SANDOVAL-MOSHENBERG: Good to be back.
BURNETT: All right. And next, the White House slamming the chairman of the Federal Reserve, claiming Jerome Powell is, quote, grossly mismanaging the Fed. Well, the president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago is next.
And a top Ukrainian spy gunned down in broad daylight. It's a stunning story. And it comes as Trump says he has struck a deal now to send more U.S. weapons to Ukraine.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:40:22]
BURNETT: Tonight, grossly mismanaged, the words of White House budget director Russ Vought. In an extraordinary attack saying that Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell has, quote, grossly mismanaged the Fed. Vought even suggesting that Powell has misled Congress over renovation of the Fed's headquarters in an incredible charge.
This as President Trump came out today and slammed Powell and the Fed. Now, of course, he's called Powell stupid. Before now though continuing his pounding the table on lower interest rates, saying that the Central Bank must rapidly lower interest rates and arguing that Chairman Powell, who he calls too late. Powell, of course, quote, "demeans the great credit in America by not acting on rates"
OUTFRONT now, Austan Goolsbee, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago.
So, Austan, you know, an unprecedented situation. And, by the way, a stunning charge to suggest Powell misled Congress over the Fed headquarters.
But let's just start with what Trump said. He said that Powell is demeaning the great credit of the United States by not acting to cut interest rates. Is he right? AUSTAN GOOLSBEE, PRESIDENT, FEDERAL RESERVE BANK OF CHICAGO: Well, I
don't want to get into the political side. If you just look at the economy as you know, Erin. The rules of the Federal Open Market Committee, of which I'm a member and Jay Powell is a member, we don't -- we can speak only for ourselves.
So I'm not going to speak of what the Fed thinks or what chair Powell thinks. I think that before April 2nd, as we were coming in before liberation day the hard data in the economy is looking pretty solid. We were looking like full employment, stable prices were coming down from way too high of inflation to something like the 2 percent target.
And I was feeling comfortable that rates could come -- start coming down. We've thrown wrenches in the air, if you will, since then with disruption -- potential disruptions to the supply chain. And there's just a lot of ambiguity and uncertainty that I think we need to get resolved. I still think underneath there, the economy could have rates going down.
The argument that we should be cutting rates at the Fed, because that will make the cost of increasing the debt cheaper. I don't totally understand that argument. The law gives the Fed a dual mandate. We were supposed to look at prices and employment. That's all we're supposed to look at when setting monetary policy.
BURNETT: I guess one could look at it, Janet -- back to Janet Yellen and say, wow, the U.S. should have issued 100-year debt at 1 percent. That would have been pretty transformative. But that didn't happen. And here we are. Rates are higher.
So Trump's budget director, Russ Vought, when he attacked Powell. And the charge there is that he's grossly mismanaged the fed. And the suggestion that he misled Congress by running over budget on what Vought says is an ostentatious renovation of Fed headquarters.
Look, I don't want to ask you to get political. I just want to take a step back here because we're talking about the Fed. It's supposed to be an independent institution, an institution that has trust and credibility for the American people. That matters. It matters to the world.
So, when someone comes out and is alleging mismanagement, and I don't know what the word is to use, but misleading congress on renovations, you know, does that sound anything like the Jay Powell that, you know, that you sit in those rooms with and make these important decisions alongside?
GOOLSBEE; It doesn't sound like the Jay Powell I know. The Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago is a separate entity from the Federal Reserve Bank in Washington. So I don't -- I don't know anything about the budget.
It's not -- the Fed building is not a luxury building. It's a very old building. And like the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, we have a lot of money in a in the vault. And there's a -- it's an old building over 100 years old, in Chicago's case, and they need to be renovated, and they have to be done so with a -- with a high level of security as I'm sure you can appreciate.
So --
BURNETT: Yeah.
GOOLSBEE; I don't know the details of that particular renovation. I do know it's not a luxury building, if you go see what the Fed is has got going.
BURNETT: Austan, the tariffs, nobody knows what they're going to be, where they're going to land. We know another 50 percent was just announced on copper to go into effect August 1st. We'll see what happens with that. But have you seen any indication that the tariff action so far has pushed inflation up?
GOOLSBEE: Not a lot.
[19:45:00]
And that's been the good side, has been. We've had -- we've had the tariffs in place for a bit and surprisingly little direct impact on inflation. And that's heartening.
Now, as you know, the price data only come out with a lag. So, as I'm going around the Midwest and talking to businesses, there's still expressions of uncertainty and unease that it could still be coming. But if we get a few more readings like the ones we've been getting for the last month or two, that would feel good.
If we keep piling them on, piling tariffs on, then we're going to have to keep waiting.
BURNETT: Austan Goolsbee, thank you very much.
And next, an apparent assassination on the streets of Kyiv. A stunning moment. Top spy killed, gunned down as Trump has news on a deal.
Plus, our Bill Weir on the ground in Texas. And what he has discovered tonight is alarming when it comes to the flood zones around the children's camps.
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BURNETT: Breaking news, an apparent assassination of a Ukrainian intelligence officer. The security camera footage, which CNN has yet to independently verify. But here's what it shows, you can see.
It shows the official leaving the building. Broad daylight. Then he walks towards a nearby car. So, you see him walking in slow-mo here. He's walking across the street.
And then on the left, you see a masked individual come up. That's the other dot starts to approach him. Now you know they're getting closer. He's walking up to that car and in moments that were going to not actually, I don't -- I don't want to show you the person actually killed. The shooter opens fire. Victim falls to the ground. So, this is all on surveillance footage, on the streets of Kyiv. And
that is an intelligence officer, Ukrainian intelligence officer that you were looking at there. It comes as President Trump is telling NBC News that the U.S. will officially be sending weapons to Ukraine through a deal that he struck with NATO, and that NATO will pay for those weapons.
OUTFRONT now, Ian Bremmer, president and founder of the Eurasia Group.
And, Ian, I mean a lot to talk to you about. I just want to you know, that video is pretty incredible that we're looking at, a Ukrainian intelligence officer. And obviously we don't know exactly what happened.
It is, though, just evidence of what is happening here to see something like that. And assassination on the streets of Kyiv and in a sense of this sort of thing happening regularly.
IAN BREMMER, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, EURASIA GROUP: Well, there are virtually no constraints by either the Ukrainians or the Russians in the way they're fighting this war, because it's become existential. I mean, the Russians don't want to hit NATO, but they're hitting Ukrainian -- any Ukrainian targets they could find. They don't care if there's civilians or not.
The Ukrainians are hitting targets deep inside Russia.
[19:50:03]
Anything they can do to try to maintain their position in this war, and not lose their country.
So, I mean, the fact that this has been going on for three and a half years now, Erin, I mean, I know that we kind of get used to it, but the fact is that there is extraordinary danger around escalation every day that this fight goes on. And, you know, we're one accident away, one lucky bullet away, one escalation away from a major assassination, from an environment where regime change is more plausible. I mean, all of those things continue as this war keeps going.
BURNETT: Right. When you talk about regime change -- I mean, you raise a question, what about Zelenskyy himself? I mean, and you think about what these moments mean. I mean, just the other day, Ian Trump said Putin was throwing BS at him. He's clearly frustrated. Weve not heard him like this before.
Now, officially confirming to NBC is going to make sure those weapons continue through that NATO deal. How do you see this in terms of Putin and Trump right now? I know that you believe that this moment is very dangerous.
BREMMER: I do. And I -- and I also, of course, want us to just remind ourselves how courageous President Zelenskyy continues to be, the way he's led his country, knowing that he's facing this kind of danger every moment of his life from a leader, a very powerful military leader, brutal dictator that wants him dead, right? I mean, that ordered, the clearly ordered the killing of his own, you know, former major supporter in charge of the Wagner Group that turned against him. I mean, that's nothing close to what Zelenskyy represents to Putin. So we just need to always remind ourselves of that.
But Trump -- the Trump point here is important. I think what we're seeing is that this is the biggest shift in foreign policy that Trump has made on any issue since he became president second time around, he's really changed. He thought he was going to get a deal. He thought he'd make an offer to Putin. He's had many productive conversations with him when he was president first time around.
He was going to use the carrot. Biden used the stick. Biden was weak. He didn't respect him, didn't treat him properly. That's what Trump believed.
And now, suddenly, that deal has not worked out. And Trump is legitimately angry. Erin, the last the last couple conversations Trump has had directly with Putin have been all -- Trump has stuck to his talking points. They've been cold. It's a very different environment.
BURNETT: All right. Ian Bremmer, thank you so much as always.
Next, our Bill Weir is in Texas looking at how these camps for children were even allowed to continue building, expanding in what was known to be extremely hazardous flood zones.
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[19:55:26]
BURNETT: Tonight, the urgent search continues for the more than 160 people still unaccounted for in Texas. Among those, five young campers and a counselor from Camp Mystic. As the toll of this disaster grows, so do the questions about how prepared we really are for this kind of extreme weather.
Our Bill Weir is on the ground near Camp Mystic tonight.
BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Erin, we're just upriver from Camp Mystic and you don't have to look far to just see the heartbreaking symbolism of the violence of this storm and what it took from people's lives here.
We have probably laid out by search teams, a photo album where the images have all been washed away by the floodwaters next to a child's chair, and then framing it. Above, look at the canoe, bent around that tree a good 30 or 40 feet in the air.
The hydrology in these canyons, of course, have been dangerous for decades. We've known that. This is a Flash Flood Alley. Grandma and grandpas in Hill Country have been talking about the big ones through the decades. There was a deadly one that took campers lives back in '87.
But the planet is so much warmer now, and we're seeing in real time that these rain bomb events and the ensuing deadly flash floods are becoming even more violent. Just Google last month, June, flash floods around the world. You can see them just about on every continent.
And so, the water line, the life and death line in valleys like this is changing. And the future health, wealth and happiness of these people depends on knowing where that line is. And for example, here, if you look at Camp Mystic, about eight of their structures were inside FEMA's most dangerous flood plain there. But if you use a map used by the First Street Foundation, that number jumps to 17 buildings, because FEMA does not account for flash flooding in their flood risk models.
Isn't that crazy? It doesn't account for rain bombs and these kinds of events only focuses on coastal flooding and big river systems.
So, First Street Foundation does take into account these modern phenomenon, and as a result, it doubles the number of Americans who are at risk of these kinds of flooding events and not just in Hill Country of Texas or the Southwest deserts, but cities like New York, where a big chunk of folks live in flood zones.
Unwittingly, people in basements most vulnerable because the dynamics there are the same as a canyon or arroyo. It's that water rushing on hard surfaces faster than you can run, and bringing such destruction in its path.
BURNETT: Well, those -- it's incredible to see that. I mean, to imagine that canoe that you showed 30, 40 feet in the air and look, Bill, you're on the ground. Youve reported on climate disasters for years, you know, but you're standing in Hunt, Texas, tonight. All those images as you were walking around near Camp Mystic when you see this, does this moment feel different? Does it feel like any sort of a turning point in how we're going to prepare and respond to these increasingly deadly natural events?
WEIR: Erin, I tell you what? That is a -- that is a constant question that every one of these, you think, boy, is this one big enough is the fatality count big enough on this one to change things? I couldn't help but be reminded of covering actually, the Japanese tsunami that caused the Fukushima disaster.
If you remember that I went to this village where an elementary school lost so much young life because the kid had been trained to get on a bus to evacuate instead of just going uphill. And the same dynamic sort of -- could play there at Camp Mystic if some kids had gone uphill. But the families are so reeling right now, they're in stages of grief. There's so much raw emotion here right now.
Who knows what you know, further reforms will be made in this area, but the parents that send their kids to a lot of these camps, you know, are thinking about this. They're thinking about alarm systems with current gauges that would sound alarms and wake people up in the middle of the night, rejected years before because it was either too annoying or too expensive.
But these sorts of things have the capacity to change, folks. But right now, Erin, the federal leadership and leadership in some states don't want to talk about climate change at all, much less the science. The measurements needed to equip communities to know what's coming and build accordingly.
So, now, more than ever, it seems incumbent on communities, wherever they are in the country, to say, hey, where are we in the floodplain? What's our plan? What can we do? Because being prepared these days, as you can see, means so much.
BURNETT: Yeah. And just in the past few days, you know, hundreds of flash flood warnings across the country, it is -- it is not just isolated to any place.
Bill, thank you so much, on the ground in Hunt, Texas tonight.
Thanks to all of you for being with us.
"AC360" starts now.
