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Erin Burnett Outfront

Epstein Accuser Speaks Out In First TV Interview Suing Government; Inside Russian Drone Factory; Letterman Slams CBS. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired July 21, 2025 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:31]

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:

An Epstein accuser speaks to OUTFRONT about Epstein's relationship with Donald Trump. The accuser says she told the investigators twice to look into Trump after an alleged encounter with him in Epstein's office in 1995.

Plus, a rare look inside a Russian drone factory as Putin ramps up unprecedented attacks against Ukraine.

And the face of Trump's tough talk. David Letterman slamming his old network for suddenly canceling Colbert's show as all eyes are on Stephen Colbert and his friend Jon Stewart tonight as they return to their studios, as to whether they'll speak out.

Let's go OUTFRONT.

And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.

OUTFRONT tonight, a woman who told the FBI to look at Donald Trump's connections to Jeffrey Epstein is speaking to OUTFRONT tonight.

My guest, Maria Farmer, has accused Epstein of sexual assault. She told investigators twice, once in 1996 and again in 2006, that they should also look into people close to Epstein, which included Trump. Of course, we should note that Trump has not been accused of any wrongdoing in relation to Epstein, and Farmer isn't accusing him either.

But Maria does point to a 1995 incident with Trump and Epstein's office that she said made her uncomfortable, and she's going to talk to me about that incident and much more about the relationship between Trump and Epstein in just a moment. So, you'll hear from her.

And this comes as Republicans are trying to force Trump to release federal records relating to Epstein. Ten House Republicans have now signed on to a bipartisan measure that would help do just that. And if all Democrats support it, which it's expected that they will, then they can force a vote.

But the House Speaker Mike Johnson is not allowing any Epstein votes right now. In fact, he says a vote will not happen before September at the earliest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: My belief is we need the administration to have the space to do what it is doing. And if further congressional action is necessary or appropriate, then we'll look at that. But I don't think we're at that point right now because we agree with the president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: That is a real kick the can down the road. I mean, it's July. September is a long way away.

And that is the same Mike Johnson who just a week ago said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNSON: We should put everything out there and let the people decide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Well, things have changed in a week, but putting things out there, that is what members of his own caucus are demanding still right now. Johnson now, though, is standing in the way. It's important to just point out, though, who are these Republicans who are standing in the way? Right. Are these the kind of purply state?

No, these are not anti-Trump Republicans trying to force this vote. In fact, among them is someone who we all know has historically been one of Trump's biggest allies in the House, Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene.

And she has a warning to the president. Today, she posted on social media, I quote her, if you tell the base of people who support you of deep state, treasonous crimes, election interference, blackmail, and rich, powerful elite evil cabals, then you must take down every enemy of the people, if not, the base will turn and there is no going back. Dangling bits of red meat no longer satisfies. They want the whole steak dinner and will accept nothing else.

Well, a metaphor which makes a lot of things loud and clear. By the way, she's saying this now, which is important. And I talked about her and Trump. Right. This is the same person who has said things like this about Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): He's the greatest president this country has ever had.

We trust President Trump.

Absolutely love him, I love him. I have so much faith in him.

He's always so sweet. I'll vote for President Trump even if he's in prison.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Right. And now she's making it clear the base will turn.

Now, Trump is hoping he can distract her and others in his party who are calling for the Epstein documents. Here's how he's doing it. Today, the FBI released records on Martin Luther King Jr. over the family's objections, and Trump is continuing a barrage of social media posts today and all weekend long to get people to run after shiny objects like he weighed in on the Idaho murder sentencing, he railed against cashless bail.

He continues on his crusade against Democratic Senator Adam Schiff on falsifying loan documents. He went out in all caps about Samantha Power, asking, how did she make all of that money. Then he reposted a fake A.I. video showing President Obama being arrested in the Oval Office.

And there have been multiple tweets about the topic of the Washington Commanders and the Cleveland Guardians. They both changed their names. Right. The Commanders were the Redskins. The Guardians were the Indians.

[19:05:00]

And Trump has been weighing in on that. This one is interesting. He said, "The Washington whatever should immediately change their name back to the Washington Redskins. There's big clamoring for this. Likewise, the Cleveland Indians.

Now we just point out that it is ironic in light of this tweet sent by Trump all the way back in 2013 after then-President Obama had suggested the Redskins should change their name since it was offensive to some, Trump tweeted at the time, the president should not be telling the Washington Redskins to change their name.

Our country has far bigger problems. Focus on them, not nonsense. And perhaps something he could listen to.

Now, Kristen Holmes is OUTFRONT at the White House.

And, Kristen, you know, just putting all these things out there, this variety of topics, its like spaghetti against the wall. And so far, the White House has taken everything related to Epstein punting it over to the Department of Justice, which is not what many in his base want to hear as Marjorie Taylor Greene makes so crystal clear.

What are you learning?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. And, Erin, just really quick before we get started. That's right. But President Trump and his chief of staff, Susie Wiles, just walked out from the White House behind me. It was unclear what they were doing, but we saw a heightened security presence behind me. So, if you see him again, let me know, because obviously I'm facing

you so we can see what it is he's up to. It's really unclear why he's walking around. He's pointing to a bunch of different things on the lawn when it comes to Epstein. It is so clear president Trump wants to talk about literally anything but the Epstein files.

And as you noted, this has been obvious in Truth Social post after Truth Social post. At one point, he was praising Mark Levin's book at another point, as you said, wading into the conversation over the Washington Commanders name and threatening not to help build the new stadium or to pull out of the deal if they don't change back to the Redskins.

He was even weighing in, as you noted on the Idaho murderers plea deal, anything they could do to talk about something else. And we did catch up. A group of reporters caught up with Karoline Leavitt earlier today, and we had a lot of questions for her. One of them was, why not release everything else? Why just do this tip of the iceberg, which we've heard from a number of legal sources, is not going to give that much information in terms of unsealing the grand jury testimony.

She punted, as you noted, not just to the DOJ, but also to the FBI, saying that Trump has told both Kash Patel and the attorney general, Pam Bondi, that if there's more, quote, unquote, credible information, that they should release it. Of course, the big question is what exactly determines what's credible and who gets to say what's credible to be released?

So, he's sitting here and he's kind of hanging out to dry. Both the head of the FBI and the head of the Department of Justice.

But what his supporters are asking is for him to publicly call for Pam Bondi to release these investigative materials. They understand that names, addresses, personal details are not going to be something that that can be released, that all that must be redacted, but they are still thinking that there is a lot more there.

And we continue to see these reports about hundreds of thousands of pages within this document, within this file, within this case, and investigation. And they're asking why it is that after all of that, there was only one memo.

So, this kind of punting, kicking the can down the road, saying it's up to the DOJ saying it's up to the FBI, it's just not flying with his MAGA loyalist base.

And I'll tell you one thing -- right now, you're hearing some of them kind of fall in line saying, okay, Trump is taking those first steps. A lot of them are still calling me behind the scenes and asking me that if I get a chance to ask President Trump a question, to ask why he's not releasing more.

So, this is not ending anytime soon.

BURNETT: No. And that's fascinating that they're reaching out to you for that. And extremely telling. Kristen, thank you very much. Kristen Holmes reporting from the White

House tonight.

And my next guest as promised is Maria Farmer, who says Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell sexually assaulted her. So, she says she saw Trump at Epstein's office late at night in 1995. At the time, she was 25 years old.

Epstein had just hired Farmer, who was an artist, to help him acquire art. Now, Farmer urged the FBI to look at Trump's connections to Epstein twice, in 1996 and again in 2006, which, of course means Trump's name could very well be in those government files that the administration is refusing to release. Maria Farmer is now suing the government to try to get the unredacted files about the allegations she brought forward about Epstein.

President Trump has not been the target of any investigation related to Epstein, nor has he been accused of any criminal wrongdoing in this case.

Maria Farmer is OUTFRONT now for her first television interview, sharing her story since filing her lawsuit, and she is joined by her attorney, Jennifer Freeman.

So, thanks very much to both of you.

And, Maria, I want to give everyone a chance to understand exactly what happened here. I mean, you said that Jeffrey Epstein calls you to come to his office, and you go, and then you're sitting there waiting, and Donald Trump walks in.

[19:10:01]

What happened?

MARIA FARMER, EPSTEIN ACCUSER: Yes. Well, first of all, id like to thank you for having me on, Erin. I really appreciate it because I need to say up front that I've waited three decades to be able to even be heard about this because the government has not held any of the people I reported accountable. And so, basically, the night before I went in, before I began working for Epstein, he called me at very late in the evening and asked me to come up to the Helmsley Palace offices and I didn't even have money for a subway token. It's kind of embarrassing.

So I had to go running up there. And so, I told Epstein, I'll be up there. It'll probably take me until like nine. He's like, okay.

So, I get there and I'm waiting. It's dark, like there's no light on in the offices. And I thought that was really weird. So I'm seated against the wall in the main part of the offices and just waiting for Epstein. And he says, I'll be out in a minute, you know, and he's got the door closed.

And then a few minutes later, this man walks in in a business suit, kind of tall, imposing. And I immediately was like, that's Donald Trump. What's he doing here? I'm supposed to be working for Epstein and interviewing with him. Why is Donald Trump here?

And he walked up about, you know, a few feet from me and just stood over me in a very imposing way and looked at me like, like he was in on some secret or something. It was really weird, like smirking, kind of. And I felt threatened. So I made an ugly face.

And when I made that ugly face, Epstein walked out from the offices on this side. Trump standing here, I'm here. And he walks out of his office and he goes, oh no, no, no. He was laughing at me. And he goes, she's not here for you. Follow me. Right?

And he escorts him in to this other room. And I always wondered, who was she in there? Was someone in there, right? And I have no way of knowing, nothing.

But I felt very intimidated because I had on running shorts and I was vulnerable, sweaty, just a nobody in an office with these two men that felt very predatory and uncomfortable. I have to say that when I made that ugly face, he backed off. It wasn't like he was aggressive after that, but he made a really vulgar comment following.

And I don't know if it was like, you know, like locker room talk in the '90s the way men were. But he made a joke to Epstein. Oh, I thought she was 16. And I thought that was so strange because at the time my sister was -- she was 15, actually, and I didn't think it was funny, even though it was like it was just a little bit inappropriate.

But I thought, I don't know what it was. But anyway. And then they entered that room.

BURNETT: So, Epstein says she's not for you. And then when did Trump make the comment about -- about your age again? You were 25 at the time, right? So, I mean, you know, you were 25-year-old woman.

FARMER: Yeah. Yeah. I was --

(CROSSTALK)

BURNETT: But was it after Epstein said that comment that that he made the comment about age or --

FARMER: Yes. So, he first said, no, she's not here for you, which immediately made me feel weird. Like, was there someone there right in that other room? And so, I -- that's another reason I was nervous. And so as soon as he said that, laughed, I made the face, all that stuff, they started to walk away and did that other room where he's escorting him. He goes, come with me. And he takes Trump into this other room in the offices at 9:00 at night, and there's no one else in, you know, that I know of in these offices.

But was someone in that room? So, I always wondered what that was about. And anyway, that comment was made under his breath as they were entering that room.

BURNETT: As they were in that room.

FARMER: And I thought it was rude. I thought it was rude. I don't care what age I was like. It's rude to say.

BURNETT: Which Jennifer, I guess brings me to the -- where you are now. I know you're helping Maria now sue to get the unredacted files, unredacted government files related to her story. What do you expect these will show?

JENNIFER FREEMAN, ATTORNEY FOR EPSTEIN ACCUSER MARIA FARMER: Well, we would really like to -- excuse me -- we'd really like to understand what's in those files and what is, because we really have never had access to them. We've been making FOIA requests, and we had to bring a lawsuit to get access to the files, as well as to hold the government accountable, which is what this suit is really about.

BURNETT: So, Maria, when you talk about the closeness of the relationship, when you were working for Epstein, you say that that he was present very regularly.

[19:15:10]

How close were they as far as you were able to tell?

FARMER: Well, like Epstein said, he inherited him in the divorce. You know, he said, basically I -- you're going to see us together all the time. We're fixtures because in the divorce, I inherited Trump and Ghislaine inherited Ivana. So, he said, you're not going to see him at the house the way you see Ivana, and you're not going to see her at the offices. The way you see Trump.

And, you know, it was just -- it was a known thing, like among the staff and everyone, that they were best friends. And Epstein bragged about it. And I gave up 30 years to report this. And it's a very serious thing to fight the government. You know, it's been unbelievable. I've been fighting two cancers because of it.

BURNETT: Maria, when we reached out to the White House for a comment, they responded, and I'll just read for you what they said. Quote, the president was never in Epstein's office. And in fact, the president kicked him out of his club for being a creep. They then say that Trump you know, they're clear. They're -- they say he was never in Epstein's office, which of course from the original incident that you're talking about is where this occurred according to your recollection at the Helmsley building in New York.

FARMER: Yes, it was absolutely in the offices.

BURNETT: So, what do you say when they give a response like this?

FARMER: Yes. I say that they're being disrespectful to the fact that I have given up my entire life for this case, just to have it investigated. And I'm really sorry for him that he's caught. But, you know, I don't know what to say to that. He's lying. I don't appreciate it.

He was absolutely at the offices and it was 9:00 at night. I thought it was inappropriate, but also, they were best friends at the time. So, what I say to that is I don't think he's really responding to the fact. And what does he mean the offices? He needs to be specific because he was in the Helmsley Palace offices. Yeah.

BURNETT: Well, I appreciate so much both of your time and, Maria, your choosing to speak out. I know that time may make some things easier and others perhaps even harder. So I'm very grateful that you're choosing to speak and thank you.

FARMER: I appreciate you. Thank you.

BURNETT: And OUTFRONT now, Jack Scarola, who has represented nearly 20 women against Jeffrey Epstein, has spent 18 years litigating cases against him.

Also with me, journalist Gretchen Carlson, former Fox News anchor and the co-founder of Lift our Voices.

So, Jack, when you hear Maria Farmer talk about her, her case now and you hear what she just told us, how significant do you think her story is?

JACK SCAROLA, PARTNER AT FIRM THAT REPRESENTED 20 WOMEN IN CASE AGAINST EPSTEIN: I think her story is significant. I think anything and everything that directly challenges Donald Trump's account of his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein is a matter of significance. Donald Trump himself, in 2002, in "The New York Magazine" article exploring profiling Jeffrey Epstein, acknowledged a 15-year-long close relationship with Jeffrey Epstein.

At that time, he spoke about Epstein's association with beautiful women, the recognition that many of them are very young, and during the period of the relationship between Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump, anyone associating with Jeffrey Epstein on a regular basis had to have been deaf, dumb and blind not to recognize the fact that something very unusual was going on in Jeffrey Epstein's relationship with young girls. So, the more information there is that helps to establish and cement that relationship between Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump, the more likely it's going to be that the unanswered questions about Jeffrey Epstein ultimately get answered. And there are many questions that are still unanswered.

BURNETT: There are, and so many across this country who want answers to them. You know, Gretchen, when you hear maria speak, you know, you made the decision in your career to speak out about harassment. Youve been fighting for victims of sexual assault. And she talks about 30 years that she has waited 30 years to be able to tell this story of her, you know, and she had called the FBI multiple times. So, what do you hear when you hear her speak?

GRETCHEN CARLSON, FORMER FOX NEWS HOST: Well, one of the things my lawyer said to me, the most important thing they said is that it ain't fun to come forward.

[19:20:00]

And I can attest to that. It's very difficult. It's a very personal decision.

But also, they warned me that people will not believe you. They will malign you. Some may kill you.

So, it is an incredibly personal decision to decide to speak your own voice. What I fight against now is that some people don't even have the ability to speak their voice, because they're silenced through non-disclosure agreements and other things like that, but somehow I made this crucial decision in my life. I dug deep, I came forward, I persevered, and now I've dedicated most of my life to making workplaces safer for other survivors. Millions of people that I will never meet.

The interesting thing is, I don't even own my own voice. You know, I may never own my own voice. And that's why when I listen to maria be able to say what actually happened to her, you know, this is why I do the work I do, because I don't own my own story. And people are often fascinated by that. I may never own it.

BURNETT: Right. And she -- the fact that she's able to speak out and that she's --

CARLSON: Yes.

BURNETT: -- but, you know, taking 30 years to do it. I mean, Jack, when you talk about finding out about the relationship between Epstein and the people who were around him a lot, people who were close to him, one of whom multiple people have now said to us, a very good friend of his was Donald Trump's.

Back in 2017, you listed President Trump as a potential witness in a civil lawsuit against Epstein. Now, Trump has talked about the relationship, as you mentioned. Right. But in the early 2000s, he talked about that, that he had a falling out with Epstein. He never said what it was about.

He did say, though, that it had nothing to do with what we have subsequently learned about Epstein. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: With regard to Jeffrey Epstein, did you have any suspicions that he was molesting young women?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, I have no idea. I had no idea. I haven't spoken to him in many, many years. But I did have no idea.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: In light of what you know, Jack, in light of hearing stories like Maria's, what do you say to that?

SCAROLA: I don't find that denial to be credible in any respect at all.

BURNETT: Because you're -- from what you know -- and again, I want to emphasize here, you spent nearly two decades litigating. You believe that there would be -- you say you would have to be deaf or blind to not know if you were him.

SCAROLA: Absolutely. We know that Donald Trump spent a good deal of time with Jeffrey Epstein in a variety of locations. We know that his name appears on the flight log manifests of Jeffrey Epstein. When Epstein was traveling from various locations here in the United States to other locations around the world. We know from the testimony of young women also on those airplanes what was going on during those flights.

Now, I don't have information that ties Donald Trump directly to those abuses of children, but it would be very difficult not to have understood what was happening.

BURNETT: So, Gretchen, I guess the question is, are we going to get more answers? You got Mike Johnson now after pushing for disclosure, saying were not going to have a vote until at least September?

CARLSON: Yeah. I mean, a couple of things could happen here. First of all, I think that Trump and his team are hoping that the story is going to go away. Maybe they're going to get to those ten Republicans who so far say they're going to vote with the Democrats to release all of the information, millions of documents like they did with the Big, Beautiful Bill. I would not be surprised to see that happen, but it could also continue to erupt over the next 5 to 6 weeks with people, you know, it's moved out of the political sphere now. It's into pop culture.

BURNETT: Yeah.

CARLSON: And once you get into that realm where 80 percent of Americans have heard about this story and they want to have answers, it's a very dangerous territory.

BURNETT: Thank you both very much.

And next, Russia unleashing one of its most massive aerial assaults on Ukraine tonight. And tonight, the Kremlin -- well, wait until you see this. We have a rare look inside a drone making factory in Russia. An incredible report.

Plus, why do many Trump voters also love Zohran Mamdani, a Democratic socialist?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Did you vote for Zohran Mamdani? Who did you vote for, for president in 2024?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Okay, that's a Venn diagram. And Elle Reeve has a special report.

And the actor best known as Theo Huxtable on "The Cosby Show", Malcolm-Jamal Warner, dead at the age of 54 from an apparent accidental drowning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:28:56]

BURNETT: Breaking news Russia pounding Ukraine with a brutal aerial attack, launching 450 missiles and drones at Kyiv and other parts of Ukraine, coming as a German general warns that Russia is developing capabilities to launch 2,000 drones a night even deeper across Ukraine, as we have unprecedented video of a highly secretive Russian drone factory showing the mass production of what has increasingly become the weapon of choice, the one that Vladimir Putin relies on the most in his arsenal.

Matthew Chance is OUTFRONT tonight in Moscow.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Over Kyiv, the ominous buzz of a Russian drone before it finds its target. Waves of these attack drones pose a nightly threat against Ukrainian towns and cities.

Now, we have a rare glimpse inside one highly secretive Russian drone factory where thousands of the cheap, simple and deadly weapons are virtually flying off the assembly lines.

[19:30:06]

This is now the biggest factory in the world for attack drones, the company CEO, who sanctioned by the U.S., tells the Russian ministry of defense television station. It's secret, he says. But we will show you something.

And what were shown is a vast and modern production facility employing thousands, hundreds of miles from the front lines and recently expanded, we're told, enabling Russia's escalating campaign of drone strikes across Ukraine.

We must give credit to the strategic foresight of those who foresaw that this war would be a war of drones, the CEO says. And it's good. We're ready for it, he adds.

There's also this extraordinary footage of drones being test launched at speed, while their performance is remotely monitored. While Russia's drone program, once reliant on imports from Iran, is now self-sufficient.

Ukraine is waging its own drone war. Of course, striking Kremlin forces deep inside Russia in highly sophisticated operations like this one last month, targeting Russian strategic bombers.

On the front lines, drones from both sides have transformed the battlefield.

But these unprecedented images from this one Russian factory shows how the Kremlin is dramatically scaling up drone production, and its capacity to wage a long and devastating drone war in Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHANCE (on camera): Well, Erin, it's interesting because the way this sort of factory was cast wasn't just as a weapons factory, but as a sort of patriotic response to things like, you know, the culture of woke in the United States. Thats how the CEO described it.

So, it's not just a simple arms manufacturer. It's a kind of, you know, community sort of response to that. Those Western sentiments that makes drones. And so, it served a very strong propaganda value inside Russia as well -- Erin.

BURNETT: All right, Matthew, thank you so much. Live in Moscow tonight.

And next, David Letterman speaking out about the sudden cancellation of Stephen Colbert's show, slamming his former network, CBS. All eyes on Stephen Colbert as he returns to the studio tonight for the first time since the cancellation.

Plus, Democratic socialist Zohran Mamdani winning with voters who supported President Trump. So, what's going on with that?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Are you worried at all that Trump and Mamdani will fight?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Elle Reeve with a special report, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:37:09]

BURNETT: Tonight, former "Late Night Show" host David Letterman trolling CBS, days after his successor, Stephen Colbert, announced that CBS canceled his show, the most, the top-rated show.

Letterman's YouTube page, posting a 20-minute video with past criticism of CBS with the caption you can't spell CBS without B.S.

And here is just some of what is in that video, including Letterman's famous top ten list.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID LETTERMAN, FORMER LATE NIGHT SHOW HOST: Number 10, CBS could be sold. Number nine, more powerful than the Weather Channel. Number eight, you're watching CBS at least for another week or two.

It's all about teamwork, and we have to pull together as a team. And if you don't, bad things will happen to your team. Sometimes I get the feeling our team never even gets off the bus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Letterman's video coming as Colbert is taping his first new show since announcing his show was canceled. The network said it was canceled for financial reasons. But of course, there are a lot of questions about whether that is the truth. Because, you know, Colbert had had criticism of CBS's parent company for its settlement with Trump for $16 million over a "60 Minutes" interview. And, of course, Colbert's show is the top-rated show.

OUTFRONT now, Sam Wheeler, the executive director for the Writers Guild of America East, which represents writers on the show.

So, what do you think, you know, David Letterman coming out, obviously, you know, sort of the godfather, you know, of late night there. What does it say about Colbert's show?

SAM WHEELER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, WRITERS GUILD OF AMERICA EAST: Well, I think at the top, it's a reminder that "The Late Show with Stephen Colbert" is an institution, that there's a lineage to this show that you know, comes from Letterman to Colbert. I think it's very similar to a lot of what we saw over the weekend, where, you know, celebrities and former guests pretty much spent all weekend reposting, sharing their appearances on the show. It's got a tremendous place in American culture, and that's why it's so disheartening to see it cast aside so quickly.

BURNETT: Right. So okay, so we get to that now. The network is saying this was financial. This was financial. CBS has a hell of a lot of problems.

Okay. We know that. Most media has a hell of a lot of problems.

They're saying -- they didn't say this, but reportedly the show lost -- show lost up to $40 million last year. Okay, so that's a lot of money. But as I said, it is the top-rated show.

I mean, when you hear this is financial, this is financial. Theres nothing else to see here. Do you think that's right?

WHEELER: No, I don't and I don't for a couple reasons. I mean, first, this show is not taken any of the steps that other late night shows have taken to cut costs to stay on the air. And also, you know, profit and loss reports don't account for a lot of ways in which a show like "The Late Show with Stephen Colbert" brings value to CBS and to Paramount. "The Late Show" is referenced in almost every quarterly Paramount investor call that we could find.

BURNETT: Right, oh, wow, yes.

WHEELER: And I think that the right -- and that's because of the tremendous brand value that this has for the company.

[19:40:02]

When you think about CBS, one of the first people you think about is Stephen Colbert. BURNETT: Yes.

WHEELER: And so, I think that the right, the wrong question is, was this -- was their financial problems? I think the question is why was this canceled? Was it because of a -- of a --

BURNETT: Well, and as you point out, if you have the top rated show is something that is part of pop culture and, you know, ubiquitous in American culture, then would you try to do everything you could to keep it as right as opposed to jettisoning it so quickly?

Now this brings me to Colbert, things he said that people are now honing in on, in light of that "60 Minutes" settlement, which was also CBS prior to this merger. Colbert criticized Trump, and he actually talked about the settlement between Trump and paramount.

Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST OF "THE LATE SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT": Now, I believe that this kind of complicated financial settlement with a sitting government official has a technical name and legal circles. It's big, fat bribe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: I mean, that was the First Amendment there. That was obviously before the cancellation. They're giving him another year on the air, not another year. But what, ten months on the -- on the air?

WHEELER: Yeah. And I think the timeline is really important. Right. On Monday, he makes that joke. On Tuesday, David Ellison, the CEO of Skydance, meets with the FCC. In that meeting, there's a discussion about how CBS is going to represent a range of ideological viewpoints. On Wednesday, Colbert gets the notice that the show has been canceled.

And so, I think that to believe that this is about finances means that you have to kind of forget everything you know about the Trump administration, everything you know about CBS's capitulation, CBS and Paramount's capitulation to the Trump administration, and everything that we know about the timeline.

BURNETT: Right. I mean, sometimes when things are staring you in the face, you know, you can look and see them.

WHEELER: It's more comforting to believe that it was for that reason. But I think that the facts are what they are in this case.

BURNETT: All right. Well, Sam, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

And next, Trump supporters who also support Zohran Mamdani, the Democratic socialist frontrunner in the New York mayoral race. I mean, you might say, what are these people? Are they unicorns?

No, they are not. In fact, there are many who share this view and Elle Reeve special report is next.

And the actor, best known as Theo Huxtable on "The Cosby Show" is dead at the age of 54. The cause, we understand, is an apparent accidental drowning. But tonight, an entire generation remembers him.

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[19:46:35]

BURNETT: Tonight, dodging. House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries of New York ducking multiple questions about why he still hasn't endorsed Zohran Mamdani, the Democratic nominee and the frontrunner in the New York City mayoral election. Jeffries district is in Brooklyn. He only says that he's agreed to continue talking with Mamdani.

But this comes as we are learning about what may seem to be surprising, and that's an overlap between Trump voters and Mamdani voters. Mamdani, of course, is a Democratic socialist.

Elle Reeve is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(CROWD CHANTING)

ELLE REEVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Zohran Mamdani's win in the Democratic primary for New York mayor shocked the Democratic establishment.

He did this with a seemingly contradictory coalition immigrant neighborhoods that trended sharply to the right in 2024, plus, young people who are so lefty, their neighborhoods have been nicknamed the "Commie Corridor".

Some areas in the Brighton Beach neighborhood shifted to Trump by 20 points or more in 2024. We visited a precinct that shifted 25 points towards Trump, yet voted for Mamdani by nearly 50 points.

The first time we went to Brighton Beach, we kept striking out, often because of the language barrier.

Who did you vote for mayor?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For mayor?

REEVE: Yeah.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I like Eric. Eric.

REEVE: Eric Adams?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

REEVE: Okay. So, then we went back with someone who could be our guide. Asad

Dandia, a Muslim activist. He says it was the large Pakistani population here, not the Russians, that the neighborhood is usually associated with who turned out for Mamdani.

ASAD DANDIA, MUSLIM ACTIVIST: So check it out, vote for Zohran Mamdani. And there's an American flag behind it.

REEVE: Do you think they talk to us about him?

DANDIA: Yeah. Go ahead.

REEVE: Dandia helped by translating from Urdu.

Did you vote for Zohran Mamdani?

IMRAN RAFIQ, SUPPORTED MAMDANI AND TRUMP: Yeah.

REEVE: Why?

RAFIQ: Because he's a nice guy. And everybody likes. So (INAUDIBLE), grocery and a rent freezer. So he --

DANDIA: He says things that resonated with him were the free busses, municipal groceries, and the rent freeze.

REEVE: Who did you vote for, for president in 2024?

RAFIQ: Trump.

DANDIA: Trump. Trump. Yeah. So, Trump, Mamdani.

RAFIQ: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

DANDIA: OK. So, he said, I supported and voted for Trump because Trump is very conscious about his country, he's a very good business oriented-man and he wants to take immigrants -- he wants to take corruption out of the system.

REEVE: Are you worried at all that Trump and Mamdani will fight?

DANDIA: Okay, so he says he has faith that the two of them are going to kind of move the country in a good direction.

REEVE: Zunera Ahmed is from south Brooklyn and works in city Democratic politics.

Tell me about the Trump to Mamdani voter.

ZUNERA AHMED, DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF AT NEW YORK CITY COUNCIL: Yeah. I mean, I think southern Brooklyn, you'll find them all over the place. What both campaigns did successfully was they reached out to the voters.

I was with voters on election day, and when asking Pakistani voters how they're voting, many of them said Trump and a lot of them said, because during the Trump campaign, they spoke about former Prime Minister Imran Khan and things that were happening in Pakistan.

[19:50:03]

They just weren't hearing that from other campaigns.

REEVE: Do you think there's a connection in both Trump and Mamdani talking about affordability or grocery prices?

AHMED: You know, there's a connection in terms of they're talking about it, but the Mamdani campaign has put out proposals that people can really grasp.

REEVE: Another major part of Mamdani coalition are voters that live in a string of neighborhoods. That political writer Michael Lange calls the "Commie Corridor". Many younger, college educated people live here. These neighborhoods voted overwhelmingly for Kamala Harris and then voted for Mamdani by huge margins in some precincts by 9 to 1.

Commie Corridor is not an insult.

MICHAEL LANGE, NYC POLITICAL WRITER: Not an insult at all.

REEVE: Are the young people in the commie corridor angry at the Democratic establishment?

LANGE: Absolutely.

REEVE: Why?

LANGE: Because kind of for their entire adult life, that party establishment has not really been delivering for them, that American dream of previous generations, of being able to, like, have children in a city, right? Be able to buy a home in a reasonable interest rate, just feel increasingly out of reach.

I think in some respects, the disconnect kind of between the party establishment and the voting base that Trump exposed in 2016 is reminiscent of the one that Zohran Mamdani exposed in 2025.

AUDREY FRECHTMAN, ZOHRAN MAMDANI SUPPORTER: I feel anger with a lot that's going on in our government right now, just even in the sense of there's a lot of corruption and people who are claiming to be Democratic candidates don't necessarily have views that really line up with what I support or what I think the general people even support.

REEVE: Elle Reeve, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT: And OUTFRONT next, remembering the actor best known as Theo Huxtable on "The Cosby Show", dead at the age of 54 after a total tragedy and apparent accidental drowning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MALCOLM-JAMAL WARNER, ACTOR: Hey, what's happening, Dad? (LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:56:37]

BURNETT: Tonight we are learning more about the accidental drowning of the actor best known as Theo Huxtable on "The Cosby Show", Malcolm- Jamal Warner.

Warner was in Costa Rica on vacation with his family when the tragedy happened. He was only 54 years old.

Elizabeth Wagmeister is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WARNER: Is this my shirt?

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Beloved actor Malcolm-Jamal Warner, best known for his role as Theo Huxtable on the iconic sitcom "The Cosby Show".

WARNER: There's something I want that's not in the refrigerator. I say, yo, mom, we need some peanut butter.

WAGMEISTER: Drowned while on a family vacation in Costa Rica, a source tells CNN investigators say he was swimming on the Caribbean coast on Sunday when a strong current pulled him and another individual out to sea. Beachgoers who came to his rescue were unable to resuscitate him.

The actor, director, podcaster, Grammy winning musician, poet --

WARNER: I am tired of running for shade.

WAGMEISTER: -- and father of an eight-year-old daughter was 54 years old. Malcolm-Jamal Warner was named after Malcolm X and Ahmad Jamal.

WARNER: Hey. What's happening dad?

WAGMEISTER: He told CNN more than a decade ago just how much "The Cosby Show" meant to him.

WARNER: This show, you know, was really more than a show. Clearly, it was -- it was really a social -- social statement.

WAGMEISTER: Many echoed that sentiment.

SEGUN ODUL, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: To see us represented is so powerful. It's definitely a tragic loss, not just for the entertainment community, but the black community as a whole. It's like losing a family member because he we grew up with him.

WAGMEISTER: While much of America watched him grow up on television during "The Cosby Shows'" run from 1984 to 1992, Warner had a long and diverse career in television and beyond.

WARNER: I don't want to be known just as Malcolm-Jamal Warner, the kid from "The Cosby Show". I want to be known as Malcolm-Jamal Warner, the actor who can act.

I have always presented myself as someone who wants to do more than just enjoy celebrityhood.

WAGMEISTER: With roles in "Malcolm and Eddie", "Suits", "The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air".

WARNER: Oh, I don't believe this.

WAGMEISTER: "The Resident" and as Al Cowlings in "The People Versus O.J. Simpson".

WARNER: I think I've been doing all right.

WAGMEISTER: Warner's podcast, "Not All Hood", highlighted diversity in the Black community, focusing on the importance of representation, and he reunited with Keshia Knight Pulliam, his TV sister from "The Cosby Show", on an episode just last month.

KESHIA KNIGHT PULLIAM, ACTRESS: A lot of people give their power away.

WAGMEISTER: On one of many appearances on the red carpet, Warner spoke of hope for more uplifting programing.

WARNER: We need more of that, that positivity that love. At the risk of sounding corny, but I think we need that again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WAGMEISTER (on camera): Erin, this is just such tragic news. People who I've spoken to today, who worked with him in the industry, all said that they loved working with him. He really had a stellar reputation. In fact, I met him a few years back and he was just a lovely man. So gone too soon. And of course, those who knew him and those who felt like they knew him from their TV screens over the years, are reeling tonight.

BURNETT: Absolutely. I mean, just so shocking and terrifying to imagine just swimming on a family vacation and a tide just so tragic, so terrifying with an eight-year-old child.

Elizabeth, thank you so much.

And thanks so much to all of you, as always, for joining us.

"AC360" begins right now.