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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump DOJ Interviews Epstein Accomplice Ghislaine Maxwell; Fed Chair Jerome Powell Fact Checks Trump In Real Time; Trump's FCC Approves $8B Paramount-Skydance Merger; Wrestling Legend Hulk Hogan Dead At Age 71. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired July 24, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:26]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Breaking news, team Trump meeting with Epstein's ex-girlfriend. The deputy attorney general, Trump's former personal attorney, face to face with the woman who is serving 20 years in prison in connection with Epstein's crimes. And tonight, her attorney issuing a new statement to us OUTFRONT.
Also breaking, Trump gets fact checked live on television by the chairman of the Federal Reserve, as the two showed up together to tour construction project that Trump has been pounding the table on and could try to use as cause to fire Jerome Powell.
It's an extraordinary moment. I mean, it's worth literally watching it, slowing down. It's incredible.
And breaking news, the Trump administration greenlighting Paramount's merger with Skydance Media. After a year in limbo, the deal is now a go. Why is it a go? Just days after Paramount suddenly canceled Stephen Colbert's show.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
And OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news, Trump's Justice Department meeting with a key witness in the Epstein case. That is Ghislaine Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein's ex-girlfriend. She is serving 20 years in prison after being convicted of helping Epstein groom and sexually abuse underage girls.
This is video of Maxwell returning to prison just moments after meeting with Trump's deputy attorney general. And you can see her there, actually, if you look closely, she's carrying a box of material.
Now, Maxwell's attorney says she was forthcoming with every question that Trump's team threw at her today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DAVID OSCAR MARKUS, GHISLAINE MAXWELL'S ATTORNEY: Ms. Maxwell answered every single question. She never stopped -- she never invoked a privilege. She never declined to answer. She answered all the questions truthfully, honestly, and to the best of her ability.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And just moments ago, Maxwell's attorney issued a statement OUTFRONT. All right. So let me read this to you, because he went on to say, and I quote from the statement that he gave us here on the show.
"There were no topics off limits. This is the first time anyone from the government has had the courage to sit down with her and ask her questions, so we are grateful that the deputy attorney general for doing so. I have no further comment at this time."
Now, Maxwell is the only person who knows nearly as much as Epstein did, and he's dead about the sex trafficking crimes. And as I mentioned, for her involvement, she is serving 20 years in prison. And obviously, she wants to get out.
So, what did she say to the Trump Department of Justice? I mean, remember, she knows Trump. You see her here and I'm sure you've seen other pictures, but there's plenty around of her with both Trump and Epstein.
And Trump, of course, after she was first arrested back in 2020, had this to say about her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I do wish her well. I'm not looking for anything bad for her.
(END VIDEO CLPI)
BURNETT: He says he felt bad for her. And while the attorney general's number two was in Florida speaking with Maxwell today, Pam Bondi, who briefed Trump back in May that his name appeared in the Epstein files multiple times, was a no show, was a no show at one of the most influential gatherings of conservatives today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do have a note from the attorney general, from Attorney General Pam Bondi, that I wanted to share, which is the following. I'm sorry to miss all of my CPAC friends today. Unfortunately, I am recovering from a recently torn cornea, which is preventing me from being with you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Okay, well, Bondi has been under fire ever since her agency released a memo back on July 7th. That was the memo, right? That said, guess what? There's nothing more to release. And it came to Epstein. So sorry we told you there was a lot there. Turns out there's nothing. I mean, that -- I'm sort of, you know, playing with words here because
coming out and saying there was nothing came despite Bondi's previous claims.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: The DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients. Will that really happen?
PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL: It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's been a directive by President Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Bondi, you know, feeding into the theories that the MAGA world has been pushing for years. And as we're seeing firsthand, it has all now backfired. In an op ed, Republican operative Karl Rove, writing, now I quote him, were seeing what happens when conspiracy collides with reality. There's hell to pay when those who hyped the conspiracy have closed the books on the case.
And Trump does want to close the books on this case. According to "Politico", he's been stewing ever since learning his name was in the Epstein files. And as we've reported on this program, Trump and Epstein were close.
[19:05:01]
They were close over years. And many around him have told us that best friends, many of our guests have called them best friends.
And Epstein himself is on tape saying that he was Trump's closest friend for ten years.
But during a deposition in 2010, Epstein invoked just about every legal option he could in order to avoid talking about Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever had a personal relationship with Donald Trump?
JEFFREY EPSTEIN: What do you mean by personal relationships?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you socialized with him?
EPSTEIN: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes?
EPSTEIN: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever socialized with Donald Trump in the presence of females under the age of 18?
EPSTEIN: No. I'd like to answer that question, at least today. I'm going to have to assert my Fifth, Sixth and 14th amendment right, sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, that's incredible. Okay, Paula Reid is OUTFRONT.
And, Paula, I know you have some breaking news here as were learning more about what happened, possibly in this meeting between Ghislaine Maxwell and attorneys from the DOJ.
What are you learning?
PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right, Erin. For the first time, we are hearing from Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche about the status of this ongoing conversation with Ghislaine Maxwell. He said, today I met with Ghislaine Maxwell and I will continue my interview of her tomorrow.
The Department of Justice will share additional information about what we learned at the appropriate time.
Erin, this is huge because there were a lot of questions about why the number two official who runs the sprawling Justice Department was taking any time to travel down to Florida to have this conversation. And now the fact that this interview, which lasted most of today, is going to go into a second day, that is really significant. I mean, that tells you that this is a lengthy conversation.
But what we don't know is the substance of this conversation, because earlier today, when her lawyer spoke with reporters, he said he would not comment on the substance of what she offered or what she was asked. And that's the big outstanding question here, Erin. What, if anything, is the administration willing to offer her, and what would she still have of value that she wouldn't have shared when she was facing this 20-year prison sentence?
And even if she does have something to offer the government, why should she be believed? This is a convicted sex trafficker, someone who has had serious issues with credibility in the past. Even any attempt to make a deal with her is questionable and will result in blowback from victims. So, you showed that that drone footage at the top of the show? I mean, my first question is, what is in that box? What did she bring to this meeting?
But the fact that its going to go into a second day, we're just learning, that is big.
BURNETT: Yeah. I mean, absolutely. And of course, to your point, what more is there to find out?
All right, Paula, thank you very much.
So significant development. Paula saying that she has just learned from the Department of Justice from Mr. Blanche, that they're going to be meeting with Ghislaine Maxwell again tomorrow.
So -- excuse me. Joining me now, Barry Levine, former editor of "The National Enquirer", also the author of "The Spider: Inside the Criminal Web of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell".
Spencer Kuvin is also with us. He represented nine clients who made claims against Epstein.
And here with me, Stacy Schneider, criminal defense attorney who I will also note was a contestant on "The Apprentice". So obviously you knew Donald Trump in that capacity.
So, Spencer, can I just start with you? You represent nine clients who have made claims against Epstein. I understand, you know, Tara Palmeri is saying there are thousand women who are mentioned in these Epstein files, whatever you want to call them, along with, of course, many men.
So when you hear that Blanche is going to continue meeting with Ghislaine Maxwell for a second day tomorrow, after much of the day, as Paula said, the majority of the day today spent in a meeting with her. What do you think is coming out of this?
SPENCER KUVIN, REPRESENTED 9 CLIENTS WHO MADE CLAIMS AGAINST EPSTEIN: Thank you for having me on.
You know, this has become an absolute dumpster, if not dumpster fire for the administration currently. This is an attempt to influence a key witness that has information. More so, frankly, than Epstein about what was going on for many years. You know, a number of my clients identified Ms. Maxwell as the one that organized all of the get- togethers and the women that were being brought to the home, the young girls that were being brought over from high schools here in Palm Beach County, those were organized by Ghislaine Maxwell.
She also would organize girls to go to other places here in Palm Beach, homes of certain individuals that I can't discuss because of confidentiality. And she would make sure that that happened. When the calls were made, Ghislaine Maxwell would then coordinate and arrange for the girls to go to those homes.
Ghislaine knows everything. She knows about all of the people that were in Epstein's orbit and all of the influence that was being peddled by that couple.
[19:10:02]
BURNETT: So, Stacey, now two days, two days of an interview. By the way, she's already been convicted because of information that had been, you know, in a court of law for 20 years. And this is behind closed doors with a deputy attorney general who was the personal attorney prior to that for Trump.
So, what comes out of this?
STACY SCHNEIDER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think the government is looking for one thing only, and it's a statement from Ghislaine Maxwell that there is no client list, period. I don't know why they need two days to get that out of her. It could be in a second, but I think this entire scenario is a dog and pony show to show off. The Trump administration needs someone to cover up the mess that was
made when Pam Bondi said, I have that client list on my desk, and then somehow she was only, she says, referring to a file. There is no list. Case closed. Everybody go home. Go away.
So if they can get someone who's already serving a 20-year sentence to just utter a couple of words, whether they're true or not, and well never know, because the FBI knows what's in those files. The DOJ knows, the attorney general knows.
They already have this information. They need her to say it because it gives a much greater impression.
BURNETT: Okay, Barry, though, you know, just to put the exclamation point on what Stacey's saying, a client list or not, I mean, that's a euphemism, right? That's rhetoric. Right?
The reality is, were there men other than Jeffrey Epstein who were engaging in assault and rape of underage girls? Right? That's the question. Is there -- is there anything that she can say that would put that to rest?
BARRY LEVINE, AUTHOR, "THE SPIDER: INSIDE THE CRIMINAL WEB OF JEFFREY EPSTEIN & GHISLAINE MAXWELL": Listen, Erin, I wouldn't believe anything that Ghislaine Maxwell says. She -- when she was charged by the feds, they also charged her with perjury. They were later dropped because they didn't want to expose the victims.
But this is a woman who has been lying about her involvement in the sex trafficking ring for decades. As I reported in my book, she told a friend, these girls are nothing but trash. She had no respect at all for these girls.
She groomed these girls. She took them out and bought them children's underwear so they could wear them for Jeffrey Epstein. She told them how to give specific sexual acts to Jeffrey Epstein and to others.
It is mind blowing that they are sitting down with her, even though, yes, she knows all the information. Will she ever tell the truth? I don't think so. She's only in this to cut a deal for herself.
BURNETT: Right. I mean, well, the only motivation she has is to shorten the duration of her prison time, right? I mean, just to state the very obvious here that we're all aware of.
Spencer, I'm also curious here, and I guess it's important to get your perspective on this, given that you represent people, women, right, who have made allegations against Epstein. Maxwell's lawyer is a man named David Oscar Markus. And our Brian Todd last night on this show laid out that Mr. Markus is friends with the Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, okay?
They are friends. They are the ones who are behind closed doors with Ghislaine Maxwell today. They'll be there tomorrow again.
And here is some of what Blanche has said to Markus. They were actually on a podcast together. I want to play the clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TODD BLANCHE, PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP'S ATTORNEY: I know a lot of people that have worked with you, and I know a lot of people who know you very well. I now consider you a friend and someone who I know pretty well. You are by far the best out there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Spencer, does their friendship present any sort of a problem in terms of the professional interaction that they need to have now?
KUVIN: I do believe so. I mean, look, at the end of the day, this is not an arms-length transaction. These are people working together to cover-up crimes.
And, you know, there's a concern on behalf of the victims that you have, all of these people continuing to work together to basically concoct a story to tell the general public. And I also want to address this issue of a list.
Look, during the litigation that we had. And this dates back to 2006, 2007. We never saw as the attorneys for the victims, an -- a list of actual clients. Don't get distracted by that. If she comes out and says there's no list, that's not the big issue.
What it is, is the people would call the home, arrangements would be made, visits would be made, and there are thousands of hours of videotape of surveillance from inside of Epstein's homes. And I have no doubt that the FBI has watched that video and probably internally created their own lists of people that are seen on that video.
I want to see, on behalf of the victims, those lists. I want to see the internal memos that the FBI have created, summarizing the videotapes that they have in their possession.
[19:15:02]
BURNETT: And that is -- that's what the American public wants to see and deserves to see. I mean, Barry, are we ever going to see that? Are we ever going to know the names of the men who are -- who were involved in these acts that spencer is talking about and that you have reported so extensively on?
LEVINE: I certainly hope so, Erin. And if not, I hope a whistleblower, you know, brings some of that material forward.
I also want to see in those files what the FBI actually did to go after those other individuals and to check out the victims stories and how they may have corroborated some information if they could. There is for us to finally get to the end of this case. We need for complete transparency of these files, not only for the victims, for the victims that have passed on from suicide and other means because of their involvement with Jeffrey Epstein. We need answers for these victims. BURNETT: So, Stacy, you've watched Trump's handling of this, right?
And you had interacted with him on "The Apprentice". Youve watched him, you say this is the first time you've really seen a misstep.
SCHNEIDER: Yeah, Donald Trump doesn't make mistakes. He's head of the one-liners, of the sound bite, the Big, Beautiful Bill.
To me, this is coming out in the administration like the big, beautiful lie. It looks terrible. And I don't think he ever expected this. I think when he told his base that this would all go away, nothing to look at here, I thought. I think he thought they would believe him.
But it's not just the base that's interested now because of the way this was bungled by his administration. So, this is troublesome. I've never seen him in this kind of position where he is not handling it the way he normally does with control, with steadiness, with the proper responses. There's nothing really great coming out of his mouth or anyone else at the top there.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you all very much. I appreciate it as we have that breaking news from Paula that Ghislaine Maxwell will meet with the DOJ again tomorrow for a second day. Very unexpected.
Next, a former Trump White House insider talks about just how big this Epstein crisis is for Trump and what may be the only way Trump can get out of it now.
Plus, that incredible moment as the chairman of the Federal Reserve shakes his head no. And then it escalates, as Trump talks about the Fed renovations price tag.
And Hulk Hogan, one of the biggest stars of professional wrestling, has died.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HULK HOGAN, WRESTLING LEGEND: Even in Tokyo, Japan, there's all kind of Hulkamaniacs running wild. That's why it's so popular.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:22:07]
BURNETT: Tonight, actions speak louder than words. House Speaker Mike Johnson punting on Epstein related votes until September. That's the action. And yet, here's what he's saying to CBS.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We want full transparency. We want everybody who is involved in any way with the Epstein evils, let's call it what it was, to be brought to justice as quickly as possible. We want the full weight of the law on their heads.
INTERVIEWER: This is not a hoax, in other words?
JOHNSON: It is not a hoax. Of course not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Full transparency and not a hoax.
Okay. What he's saying is right. What he's saying is true.
But again, there could have been a vote to push a lot of this out there now, his actions so far were to punt that vote until September. And that is an action that protects the president.
Alayna Treene is OUTFRONT from the White House.
And, Alayna, Trump quiet on this today. He talked about the Fed, did not talk about this, but how all-consuming is this for the White House for him behind closed doors?
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: I mean, it's all-consuming. It's incredibly consuming, Erin. And I think there's no question that they recognize that despite their best efforts to try and get the public to move away from this, to try and get his supporters to move away from this, they are unable to do so. And I think, you know, it's been so fascinating to me as someone who's covered this president so closely because he normally is one of his superpowers people say here at the White House is that he always has his finger on the pulse of his movement. And this is one of those moments when really he hasn't.
And part of it is because it's not even this question of, you know, we reported how Attorney General Pam Bondi had told the president yesterday or excuse me, told the president in May that his name appeared in the files. It doesn't really have to do with that. It has to do with this lack of transparency. That is what I'm hearing in my conversations with a lot of the president's supporters, that they feel like they aren't being transparent enough when it comes to this.
And part of the reason we actually saw the deputy attorney general, Todd Blanche, go to Florida to talk with Ghislaine Maxwell and interview her, is because of this growing pressure from inside their own party, from a lot of these House Republicans who are asking for more. I mean, we've now seen multiple interviews and people like very conservative people who are the biggest supporters of the president, people like Marjorie Taylor Greene, Josh Hawley, the list goes on, saying that they are getting nonstop calls from their constituents about this issue.
That is why we saw blanche go to Florida, because they want to get ahead of this potential subpoena. And just to this point, about this subpoena that the House committee has voted on, saying that they are going to subpoena the Justice Department on this.
I mean, the files, when that subpoena lands, they would be ready to turn that over. The names are already redacted. We've learned they could essentially turn this over as soon as it lands on Bondi's desk. It's really going to be a decision for her to make. And so, they have some time now to decide what happens there. But
it's, of course, something that they are very much struggling with, some sort of off ramp and how to get out of this.
[19:25:04]
BURNETT: Yeah. All right. Alayna, thank you so much.
And of course, Alayna is pointing out if it's ready to go with the names redacted and anything about the names that would make it possible for you to know who the names are, that really defeats the whole point of what the public want, which is transparency on whether there were other rich and powerful people who were engaged in pedophilia. Right?
So, it still leaves the big gaping question out there.
OUTFRONT now, Marc Short, the former chief of staff to Vice President Mike Pence.
And, Marc, you know, look, just me stating the obvious there when I say that, I mean, you say there's really only one thing Trump can do to regain control of what is now a full-blown crisis. What is it?
MARC SHORT, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: Well, Erin, I think your point I think it does require transparency. And I think to the Speaker Johnson's point, he's right. It's going to require, I think, the president to release the files that they have and be transparent with the American people.
I'm sure that there's some who think that they sort of have bought themselves more time with this discharge petition now being delayed until September, and you have the full August recess.
But, you know, even as your White House reporters are telling you, Erin, the reality is that it is a white hot issue for a lot of Republican voters. And so, members can be going back to their districts and having town halls. And this is going to keep coming up.
And so, I would expect to actually see more members join the chorus calling for transparency.
BURNETT: So do you think those voters and Trump's base will ever trust that all the Epstein information is out? And I guess in that, I'll just add in that layer if you're redacting the names of the people who knew or were involved, and anything that would enable you to identify those people, that's -- that's not transparency.
SHORT: I agree, and I -- and I think, you know, if there's some sort of notion that you can have the Maxwell interview transcript put out or notion of her testifying, there are no files. I don't think that's going to placate a lot of the president's supporters.
I think the reality is that the current vice president was, throughout the campaign trail, talking about specific flight logs that DOJ had the current attorney general promised to release the files and said she had them on her desk. The FBI director said the same.
And so, there's -- there's been a -- there's been a lot of chum in the water on this for Republican voters. And I think that they're going to anticipate full transparency.
BURNETT: All right. And you mentioned the FBI director, "The Wall Street Journal" is reporting that Director Kash Patel has privately told other government officials, I'm reading from their story that Trump's name appeared in the files.
According to people close to the administration. I guess, you know, how many people -- how many people does this implicate? I mean, that's the question. How many people could this implicate, Marc?
SHORT: Erin, I don't know. I don't think there's a -- there's a way for me to know that.
But I do think to your earlier question, I think when President Trump came on the scene ten years ago, part of it was he was feeding into, I think, a lot of healthy mistrust from a lot of Republican voters about the government and particularly those in the intelligence community.
And so, when you have something that's focused on DOJ and the FBI, a lot of his supporters believe that there was a cover up. And so and so now, when there's been promised transparency, I don't think partial release of information is going to be sufficient. They're going to need to release everything.
BURNETT: All right. Marc, thank you so much. It's good to talk to you again. Thanks.
SHORT: Thanks, Erin.
BURNETT: And next, breaking news, President Trump and Fed Chairman Jerome Powell clashing during a public photo op about renovations at the Fed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEROME POWELL, FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN: Just added in a third building is what that is. It's a third building.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's a building that's being built.
POWELL: No, it's been -- it was built five years ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: It's the handing off of the papers that says it all to me, that just the hand gestures for both of them.
Plus, "The South Park" showdown. The White House firing back tonight after the show's creators depicted the president in bed with Satan.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [19:33:28]
BURNETT: Breaking news, this extraordinary scene playing out moments ago live between President Trump and his federal reserve chairman, a man that he has called, quote, stupid and a, quote, numskull. But they were together today.
And Trump, who is zeroed in on the Fed headquarters over budget renovation as a reason to fire Powell, showed up at the Fed today and he had -- he had the -- he had everything ready to fire. He wanted to see the remodeling for himself.
But on a sheet of paper, he had all of the numbers, he thought. And then Powell, in a surprise move, showed up to, and fact checked the president in real time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It looks like it's about 3.1 billion. It went up a little bit or a lot. So, the 2.7 is now 3.1.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I don't know. It's just everything about it. It's the whole moment. It's the two of them with those looking so funny with the helmets on. It's all of it.
Powell's team further going on offense because they knew Trump was coming. So then they came in and did around him, cut him off, gave the media a tour of the renovations before Trump actually got there, and then actually said, well, hey, the high cost of the renovation is because of tariffs, and that has made the construction materials more expensive.
Brian Todd is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tonight, President Donald Trump ratcheting up his pressure campaign against the Federal Reserve and its chairman, Jerome Powell.
TRUMP: So, the 2.7 is now 3.1 and --
JEROME POWELL, FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN: I'm not aware of that.
TRUMP: Yeah. It just came out.
POWELL: And I haven't heard that from anybody at the Fed.
TODD: Today, Trump toured the feds headquarters undergoing a major renovation and got into a dispute with Powell in front of the cameras about the overall cost of the project.
[19:35:04]
POWELL: You just added in a third building is what that is. That's a third building.
TRUMP: But it's a building that's being built.
POWELL: No, it's been -- it was built five years ago.
TODD: The active construction site sits just a few blocks away from the White House. But the politically independent body is rarely visited by presidents.
TRUMP: Do you expect any more additional cost overruns?
POWELL: Don't expect them. We're -- we're ready for them.
TODD: The costly project has been on Trump's mind for weeks.
TRUMP: This guy is building this building that's severely overrun. And what does he need a building for?
I didn't see him as a guy that needed a palace to live in.
I mean, it's possible there's fraud involved.
TODD: The nearly 100-year old building is in need of safety updates to the antiquated electrical grid, plumbing, HVAC, and fire detection systems.
TRUMP: This is a very expensive job. I don't know, it got out of control. And that happens. That happens. It's a shame.
TODD: The project cost has shot up from $1.9 billion to $2.5 billion, which the fed claims is due in part to asbestos remediation, security enhancements like blast resistant windows and inflation. Workers seen today adding steel framing and reinforcing the walls temporarily clad in plywood to protect the buildings historic integrity, another added cost. Staff telling the press that building a brand-new building would have been much cheaper.
SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: The Fed has had big mission creep, and that's where a lot of the spending is going. That's why they're building these new or refurbishing these buildings, and I think they got to stay in their lane.
TODD: That's Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent seen as a possible replacement for Jerome Powell.
Critics point to claims that the renovation would include expenditures for lavish items like rooftop gardens, water features and VIP elevators.
POWELL: Some of those are just flatly misleading. The idea of elevators -- you know, it's the same elevator. It's been there since the building was built. So that's a -- that's a mischaracterization. And some of those are no longer in the plans.
TODD: And planned rooftop seating for staff removed. Instead, the focus on a green roof with grassy plants to help reduce cooling costs and water runoff. Federal Reserve watchers say Trump's focus on the building is only a sideshow.
DAVID WESSEL, SENIOR ECONOMIC FELLOW, THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: The president has been told, by his lawyers and by the Supreme Court that he can't fire the Fed chair unless he has, quote, cause, and it looks like he demanded of his staff. I need a cause. And they've come up with a mismanagement of the building as an excuse.
TRUMP: I'd love him to lower interest rates. But other than that -- other than that, what can I tell you?
TODD: Analysts also saying its Powell's unwillingness to lower interest rates that has really drawn the president's ire.
REPORTER: What would you do with a project manager who would be overbudget?
TRUMP: Generally speaking, what would I do? I'd fire him.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (on camera): But the president, after the tour of the building, said he did not want to fire Jerome Powell over the cost overruns for the renovation. Despite his defense of the renovation, Powell says he has asked the feds inspector general to conduct an additional review of the project -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Brian Todd. And I guess it's good to know that inspector general is still employed.
OUTFRONT now, Dan Ives and Peter Tuchman, Einstein and Ives are with me.
You laugh with us, still employed.
Okay. So, Dan, that you got the markets today watching this whole thing on the screen, you have Powell and Trump in their white hard hats arguing over the cost of a construction project.
DAN IVES, GLOBAL HEAD OF TECHNOLOGY RESEARCH, WEDBUSH SECURITIES: It's like a CNN of the office, right? I mean I think investors -- the last thing they want to see is just this squabble. You don't want to see this for the markets, just given uncertainty between Trump and Powell.
And look, this is essentially it's theater. And the reality is that Powell being there and even trying to sort of argue with Trump on some of the, you know, on some of the costs, I think that was a moment where he's not backing down. He's putting a line in the sand.
And look, this is a soap opera, but this is definitely a, you know, "Saturday Night Live" type scene.
BURNETT: I mean, this was the guy that Trump put Powell in the job just to remind everybody.
PETER TUCHMAN, TRADER AT THE NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE: And he's done an incredible job. And you know, I was thinking about it today.
The last thing you really want to do is to change the captain of the ship midstream here. That would make no sense. He's been with -- he's been through this journey since COVID. I mean, I don't know how anybody could think he's done anything less than a spectacular job. Right.
And so -- and I think he held his line exactly the line in the sand here. You know, he did have that smile at the end when he talked. But he the fact that he went back at him on the -- on the -- on the --
BURNETT: Well, it's okay, I want to play it again because his -- first, he shakes his head and you could maybe he went into it saying, okay, I am not going to engage. I am not going to engage. We've all been there.
He's shaking his head, shaking his head, and then all of a sudden, it's like, I've had it.
All right, let me just -- let me just play it here again.
TUCHMAN: So great.
BURNETT: All right. So then Trump hands the piece of paper -- we're playing with. Okay. This is the paper where Trump's like, well, no, I'm going to show you, I'm going to show you, right? I got it. I got -- hands it to him.
All right. Powell's pull out those reading glasses. We've all been there. Yep. Okay. Looking. And then he's like, no -- look, I'm sorry. Wait, wait.
[19:40:00]
Okay. You just added a third building. Okay? Then he's like, what do I do with this trash? Because he's mad about it. Hands it to Trump, who is mad to be handed it and then just hands it off to somebody.
IVES: His -- his blood pressure is probably going up by the second there.
TUCHMAN: You can see he's sweating.
IVES: And also it just -- he doesn't want to sit there being in terms of the grandstanding -- he doesn't want, he's not just going to sit there and take it.
BURNETT: No, no. And you know, Trump then made a joke about interest rates. But I mean, afterwards Trump's got to look back on this. Somebody made Trump look bad. Somebody made Trump look stupid by putting in a number saying, you know, of a building that counting --
IVES: Five years.
BURNETT: It was built. And then Trump stuck to it. He's like, no, no, the building it now. And Powell was like, no, it was finished five years ago.
IVES: With the head of the Fed. You think he's not going to --
TUCHMAN: Does not know everything. So, he takes his job really seriously.
IVES: I mean --
TUCHMAN: That's the difference between the two here.
IVES: And to your point, the soft landing he is engineering. You could argue a top three for Fed ever in terms of chair --
TUCHMAN: Where we are to -- look at where we are. We've just came out of one of the hardest second quarters with all that tariff market was sold off 20, 20.8 percent during the month of March and April. And we are now trading today at record highs. Even in the eyes of all --
(CROSSTALK)
IVES: You take the pilot off the --
BURNETT: So, let me ask you guys, last night, and we've all known Mohamed El-Erian for decades, okay? World renowned was one of the top at Pimco now, okay.
So, now, he's saying he doesn't agree with Trump's bullying. He doesn't agree with the full view on interest rates, although maybe he's a bit more prone to some lowering than others. But he thinks that Powell should resign because he says if he doesn't, this gets worse and worse. Eventually he gets kicked out. It makes it harder for the next person to come in.
So he actually, for totally different reasons. And Trump is saying that the right outcome is for Powell to go away.
IVES: And I get -- and Mohamed -- and I get exactly what he's saying. But I think the reality is that Bessent knows. And that's why every time you're not going to fire, you don't want anything to disrupt this market.
So, I just -- I believe right now, Powell stays to the end of his term. I just don't see the disruption here. And he stands the line.
TUCHMAN: The implication is that he's a lame duck at this point and that whatever, if he does cut them, it's because he was told to by Trump. And if he doesn't, he's just he's holding his line. And you know, I don't -- I don't think they'll fire him, which he said at the end, he wasn't going to. And I surely don't think he's going to quit.
But I don't expect him because he wants to finish the job. He's that kind of a guy who has to finish the job.
IVES: And I don't expect the champagne dinner after Powell's done between Powell and Trump. BURNETT: No, but I am just wondering, once today sinks into Trump of
what really happened that those numbers that he whipped out so confidently were just wrong. Someone gave him some really wrong numbers.
IVES: Really bad day.
BURNETT: Yeah, yeah. All right. Thank you.
IVES: Thank you.
BURNETT: Thank you both very much.
And next, the breaking news, the Trump administration just giving the okay for Paramount to merge with Skydance, a deal that's been in limbo. But tonight, it's a go, a week after Paramount canceled Stephen Colbert.
And Hulk Hogan a legend on and off the wrestling ring, in American culture, has died.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:47:46]
BURNETT: Breaking news, the FCC just moments ago approving Skydance's $8 billion merger with Paramount Global. The merger has been in limbo for nearly a year. But tonight, it's approved, a week after Paramount announced that Stephen Colbert, a huge Trump critic, would be taken off the air.
Of course, Paramount says Colbert was canceled for financial reasons, but major questions remain. It is the top-rated show in late night.
It comes as the White House tonight is going after "South Park", which is also owned by Paramount, and its explosive season premiere portraying President Trump in bed with Satan and making repeated references to Trump's anatomy totally and utterly "South Park" style. I'll spare you those details, but here is just a bit of what the audience saw.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SATAN CHARACTER: Another random bitch commented on my Instagram that you're on the Epstein list.
TRUMP CHARACTER: The Epstein list? Are we still talking about that?
SATAN CHARACTER: Where are you on the list or not? Its weird that whenever it comes up, you just tell everyone to relax.
TRUMP CHARACTER: I'm not telling everyone to relax. Relax, guy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right, the White House came out today and actually responded. They called the show fourth rate, claiming it's hanging on by a thread in a desperate attempt for attention.
Harry Enten is here to tell us something we don't know.
And, Harry, by the way, I should mention over the past year, you know, there was also that settlement with "60 Minutes".
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Yes.
BURNETT: I mean, there were a lot of things that CBS has done in the past year that raised a lot of questions. But now the deal is approved.
So "South Park" didn't just criticize Trump, obviously. I mean, that was -- that was just -- that was just down -- downright as nasty and vicious as you can get.
ENTEN: I would say so.
BURNETT: And everyone's talking about it today.
ENTEN: Yeah, everyone's talking about it today. I mean, look at the Google trends. I mean, look, Donald Trump wants this to go away. He obviously hates "South Park". But the American people are infatuated with the story.
Look at this. Google trends for "South Park" up 670 percent versus last week. It is the top topic searched with Donald Trump this afternoon. And I will note another person they one time put in bed with Satan with Saddam Hussein. Not exactly the comparison I think Donald Trump wants.
BURNETT: But that was the top two --
ENTEN: When you -- when you --
BURNETT: Trump plus something is Trump plus "South Park".
ENTEN: You got it exactly right, Erin Burnett.
BURNETT: Wow, okay. So, the episode didn't just target Trump. It did go after its own parent company, Paramount, over the merger that was just approved. And what happened to Colbert?
So that merger gets approved today. So, this was last night. So just on the eve of it, they said this.
[19:50:04]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARACTER: You guys saw what happened to CBS. Yeah. Well, guess who owns CBS? Paramount. You really want to end up the Colbert? You guys got to stop being stupid.
CHARACTER: We can't understand you.
CHARACTER: Just shut up. We're going to get canceled, you idiots.
If someone has the power of the presidency and also has the power to sue and take bribes, then he can do anything to anyone.
It's the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) president, dude. All of you, shut the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up or "South Park" is over.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So, okay, I guess maybe. Maybe I know the answer to this, but who exactly is "South Park" talking to?
ENTEN: You know, I think one of the things that's so important to point out is that Stephen Colbert was despised by Republicans in this country, as net popularity rating was way underwater.
But "South Park" is in this unique position. It doesn't just talk to Democrats, it actually talks to Republicans as well. Look at the net popularity rating with the GOP. 'South Park" is actually on the positive side of the ledger compared to Stephen Colbert, who is way underwater at minus 35 points. "South Park" at this particular point, running 37 points ahead of Stephen Colbert, when it comes to the Republican Party.
And therefore, last night's episode might actually be talking to some Republicans.
BURNETT: Which is fascinating and actually goes to the point of the White House saying that its a fourth rate show, not even a third. It was a fourth. They say that it hasn't been relevant for over 20 years.
Tell us something we don't know.
ENTEN: I'll tell you a few things that you don't know, Erin Burnett. First off, it is the longest running show in cable, at least among scripted shows. But more than that, obviously, we're in an era of streaming as well.
And here's the thing that's so important. It's not just that "South Park" is the longest running, it's a successful in the streaming space. It is at this particular point, a top 20 show on streaming. And that was before the season premiere.
So, I really would not be surprised if it jumps even further. I wouldn't be surprised if it's in the top ten, especially given all of the situations going on with this particular program. There's nothing more that comedy writers like more than a little bit of drama and a little bit of controversy.
BURNETT: Oh, well, they've got more than a little. Thank you, Harry.
ENTEN: Thank you.
BURNETT: And OUTFRONT, next, Hulk Hogan, the legendary wrestler and pop culture icon, has died.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:56:20]
BURNETT: Tonight, an American icon, dead at the age of 71. Wrestling Legend Hulk Hogan, born Terry Bollea, has passed away. His larger- than-life personality transcended entertainment, sports and politics. President Trump, among those mourning his, quote, great friend saying he entertained fans from all over the world and the cultural impact he had was massive.
CNN's Stephanie Elam is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HULK HOGAN, WRESTLING LEGEND: Since I'm the number one in professional wrestling, everybody wants to jump on the bandwagon, man.
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The legend who became Hulk Hogan was first drawn to wrestling as a fan. A young musician named Terry Bollea, whose height and enthusiasm got noticed by the wrestlers he met.
HULK HOGAN: And they said, man, if you could gain some weight and get in little bit of shape, you got a little charisma there. You know, you might be able to fit in with us.
ELAM: Bollea received his stage name, Hulk, after fellow wrestlers noticed he was bigger than Lou Ferrigno, the bodybuilder who played "The Incredible Hulk" on TV.
HULK HOGAN: We got hundreds of thousands of Hulkamaniacs. We're going to make Woodstock look like a backyard barbecue, brother.
ELAM: Hogan was not a graceful wrestler, but he was skilled in getting the audience on his side. He became an overwhelming crowd favorite, riding a huge wave of popularity he called Hulkamania, that even led to his own cartoon.
HULK HOGAN: For me, you can turn your TV on, on some weekends and catch ten saturating hours of Hulk Hogan or more. So I spent a lot of time in front of the camera.
ELAM: Hogan's star continued to rise, presenting himself as a healthy, family-friendly, flag-waving patriot.
HULK HOGAN: Train, say your prayers, eat your vitamins, be true to yourself, true to your country. Be a real American.
ELAM: A persona he perfected campaigning for Donald Trump, whom he called his hero.
HULK HOGAN: Let Trumpamania run wild, brother.
ELAM: The peak of his wrestling career was during 1987's Wrestlemania 3, when he defeated Andre the Giant with a body slam.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at this. He slammed him. I don't believe it.
ELAM: But Hogan's antics also got him into legal trouble. In 1984, comedian Richard Belzer asked Hogan to try a wrestling move on him. Hogan put Belzer in a sleeper hold, causing him to pass out and collapse, hitting his head.
Belzer sued Hogan and the World Wrestling Federation. It was settled out of court.
Out of character, Hogan admitted that his level of stardom couldn't last forever.
HULK HOGAN: They're excited as heck to see you, and it's a once in a lifetime opportunity. And thank God, it's still happening. What if it wasn't?
ELAM: Eventually, Hogan's wrestling stardom did fade and was tarnished when he was forced in court to admit he had used steroids.
Hogan tried to rebrand himself as a reality TV star. The overprotective dad to two kids, in "Hogan Knows Best".
HULK HOGAN: If we're dysfunctional, we're a normal, dysfunctional family.
ELAM: But that family image was rocked after his longtime marriage ended, and a video later leaked online showed him having sex with a married woman and uttering a racial slur.
Hogan sued the website Gawker for invasion of privacy. The case ultimately bankrupted Gawker and ended with a $31 million settlement for Hogan.
HULK HOGAN: I think we made history today.
ELAM: In the ring, on TV, or even in the courts, Hulk Hogan fulfilled his dreams of celebrity, performing for decades.
HULK HOGAN: When it's in your blood, you'll do about anything to make it and get the job done.
ELAM: He died Thursday after paramedics were called to a cardiac arrest. He was 71.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: And thanks so much for joining us.
"AC360" begins now.
