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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump Fires Senior Official Over Weak Jobs Numbers; Maxwell Moved, Without Explanation, To Lower-Security Prison; Trump Says He Moved Nuclear Subs Over Russian Official's Threat. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired August 01, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:27]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
The breaking news, firing the messenger. Trump firing the person in charge of the U.S. jobs report because he didn't like the numbers -- very weak numbers -- in part because of his trade war. The president of the Minneapolis Fed is OUTFRONT tonight.
Plus, Epstein accomplice Ghislaine Maxwell getting a mysterious upgrade. Suddenly, a transfer to a minimum security prison days after meeting with the number two official at the DOJ. So why this move now?
And more breaking news this hour, Trump doubling down, sending nuclear submarines towards Russia after a top official got under his skin.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
And OUTFRONT tonight, we begin with late breaking news on this Friday, firing the messenger. President Trump firing the top official behind the government's jobs numbers. It is a stunning and an unprecedented move in the United States, coming just hours after the bureau of labor statistics, which is around the world, the most trusted gold standard of jobs reporting numbers issued a report that revised job growth, showing the job growth in the United States had slowed to a near halt over the past three months.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Mr. President, why did you fire the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Because I think their numbers were wrong.
REPORTER: You said the jobs report today were rigged?
TRUMP: Oh, yeah, I think so. I think you'll see some very interesting information come out. But we got rid of -- you have to have honest reports. And when you look at those numbers or when you look at just before the election and then after the election, they corrected it by 800,000 or 900,000 jobs -- yeah, I would say so. (END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: Of course, just to be clear, that revision he's talking about under Biden didn't happen after the election. It happened months before it.
And here are some more facts, Erika McEntarfer is a 20-year U.S. government veteran. She was confirmed to run the BLS by the Senate with overwhelming bipartisan support. Senator J.D. Vance at the time, of course, backed her, voted for her.
And to be clear, her termination tonight is for political reasons. There's no evidence the jobs numbers were manipulated, as Trump is claiming. Theres no one credible or serious who's saying any such thing.
Today's report was bad. It did show bad numbers, not because the numbers were cooked, but because there was weakening in the economy, in large part over that three-month period, with all the uncertainty and the constantly changing tariffs and threat of 160 percent tariffs at some point, because of the tariffs.
And the chief global strategist at principal asset management sums it up by writing this, the monster downward revisions to the past two months inflicts a major blow to the picture of labor market robustness. What's more concerning is that with the negative impact of tariffs only just starting to be felt, the coming months are likely to see even clearer evidence of a labor market slowdown.
Now, the negative impact of tariffs only starting to be felt. We'll see because the numbers keep changing. But what happened over those past few months since liberation day was Trump's own doing. But of course, tonight he's firing the messenger.
And as we've seen in the past, when the numbers were good, right, those very months that have now been revised downwards originally looked pretty good. And that was good for Trump politically. He wanted the world to know about them.
Then 30 days ago, the White House was celebrating the jobs numbers before they were revised downward.
Today, they called it a June boom. And White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt posted on X: For the fourth month in a row, jobs numbers have beat market expectations, with nearly 150,000 good jobs created in June.
And even during Trump's first administration. Just listen to then Press Secretary Sean Spicer when he was talking about jobs numbers that made Trump look good.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN SPICER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I talked to the president prior to this, and he said -- to quote him very clearly, they may have been phony in the past, but it's very real now. (LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Of course, everyone laughed, then harder to laugh about things like that. Now. The truth is, they weren't phony before Trump took office the first time. They aren't phony now. They weren't phony when he was in office and casting doubt on the Bureau of Labor Statistics, which is relied upon in the United States and, frankly, around the world by government, private entities, businesses, all around the world.
That can destroy trust in American institutions and in government statistics, which threatens the very core of what makes America the greatest, biggest and most respected economy in the world.
[19:05:00]
The United States puts out a jobs report every month, whether it's good or not. It does rely on some estimates. It revises the reports based on new data.
And when you see big, big, major changes like you saw today, it comes when there is a major shift in the economy. And what happened on liberation day is the definition of major. And the BLS is an independent agency. It functions regardless of who the president is. Hundreds of people are involved in that data.
You can't rig and cook the books. Yet the president of the United States is now putting question marks around one of the great independent institutions in America, because he didn't like the numbers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Going forward, why should anyone trust the numbers? And if you're --
TRUMP: You're right, no, you're right. Why should anybody trust numbers? So, you know what I did? I fired her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Why should anybody trust the numbers? He should be proud that the United States has the most respected numbers in statistics. People believe in. Unlike China, where they say, oh, things are so great and nobody believes them because they know that the numbers aren't real there.
Jeff Zeleny is OUTFRONT live at the White House to begin our coverage.
And, Jeff, this is a major escalation in Trump's effort to shape the government in his image, right? When you talk about firing people for political purposes, the first person that comes to mind is not going to be the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Here we are. What more are you learning?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Erin, we're learning that the president was troubled by the economic numbers as we saw and for several hours said nothing. That was unusual in and of itself as his top economic advisers were trying to explain away how the numbers were not as bad as some analysts were saying. It's particularly the revisions, I'm told in May and June that really got the president's attention and caused anger.
So, he decided to do something he could not do with Jerome Powell, the head of the Federal Reserve. He can fire her. He asked his aides if he could get rid of her, and they said, yes, she does serve at the pleasure of the president. She was appointed, of course, by President Biden.
But as you said, she was confirmed in the Senate by a vote of 86 to 8. That does not happen routinely. It was J.D. Vance, but also Marco Rubio, now the secretary of state.
So, there is no sign in her history that there's any type of politics involved here. In fact, these are always apolitical reports. But the narrative that was being set in that the economy was not as good as the president would like, was not acceptable to the president.
So, he started a new narrative today rigged numbers. Where does that sound? It sounds familiar, right? He said that, you know, that the process was cooked.
So, we asked the president on the south lawn just a short time ago as he left the White House to head to his Bedminster golf resort for the weekend. What evidence is there that the numbers are rigged? And he did not point to any new evidence.
So, the bottom line here is this is going to set a precedent that these numbers may not be believable. But is Congress going to investigate ? Some former members of the BLS, the -- are saying that Congress should investigate. Of course, Congress is largely at recess. So, the Senate is still in town. We will see.
But, Erin, for all of the firings, this rings a bit different because it's the reputation of the U.S. but the bottom line, the economic numbers are what they are. And that does not change at all regardless of who is leading the BLS -- Erin.
BURNETT: No, it absolutely doesn't. And, of course, a lack of confidence, such a concern. Thank you, Jeff Zeleny.
ZELENY: Sure.
BURNETT: And OUTFRONT now, Neel Kashkari, president and CEO of the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis.
And, President Kashkari, I appreciate your time tonight. I mean, an unprecedented firing of the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the jobs report was obviously very disappointing. What's your reaction to this response? Bad jobs report, fire the head of the jobs numbers? NEEL KASHKARI, PRESIDENT AND CEO, FEDERAL RESERVE BANK OF MINNEAPOLIS:
Well, I have to -- I can't really comment on the president's personnel decisions. That's up to the president. We at the Fed obviously lean on and rely on the best economic data we can get, both from government sources like the BLS, the Bureau of Labor Statistics and private sector sources to inform us in the economy.
And so, you know, we want the best data we possibly can get. Now, I'm not that surprised that the labor market is slowing. The data was worse than I had expected. But when -- when tariffs go up, you expect prices to go up and the economy to slow. And we're seeing both of those effects. Goods prices are going up and the economy is slowing. And that's a real challenge for the Fed and for any central bank.
BURNETT: So you talk about needing to trust the numbers as you make decisions at the Fed, right, at the Fed, the decision about interest rates, nothing more important for the economy. So, the president today said that the reason he's firing the head of the BLS, the Bureau of Labor Statistics, is that she was manipulating the jobs data for, quote, political purposes.
Do you see any evidence of that, that there was political, politically motivated manipulation of the data?
[19:10:04]
KASHKARI: Well, the data that we -- I've looked at, which is both the BLS data, private sector data, and then we talked to companies all across the country. It all basically says the same thing, that companies have been very cautious about hiring because of all of the uncertainty that we've been under. If you look at the wage growth, both private and government measures of wage growth of the average worker in America, wage growth has also been gradually declining.
So, all of these together point to the same thing, which is a gently softening labor market. And so that tells me that's probably what's really happening in the economy.
BURNETT: So, I guess if when he uses the word rigged and scam, I guess it would assume that everybody is in on it. Certainly not just the BLS. You know, I'm not -- I'm not trying to be tongue in cheek about it, but I'm just making a point. Obviously, you're saying this is consistent with other all the other data sources you're looking at.
So, Trump is celebrating the resignation of one of your colleagues, one of the seven members of the feds board of governors, Adriana Kugler. Obviously, she happened to be a Biden appointee unexpectedly just stepping down early.
So, you had the firing of the BLS today, then this happened. And perhaps they weren't intended to be related, but here they are happening the same day. Trump's going to get the vacancy to fill here. But as I said, he just said, you know, he's celebrating this, saying that she wasn't willing to lower interest rates. Like too late Powell, as he refers to the chairman of the Federal Reserve.
So, what do you make of her stepping aside and what it -- what it creates here?
KASHKARI: Well, I didn't know Governor Kugler. Adriana Kugler is a very respected colleague of mine who I've enjoyed working with. I did not know that she was going to resign. I know, of course, that she was not at the FOMC meeting this week. And so, I look forward to chatting with her at some point.
I think it just brings forward -- we knew that, you -- the governor served 14-year staggered terms. We knew that Governor Kugler's term expired at the end of January, and so the president would have the opportunity to fill that vacancy then.
This, of course, brings that forward several months. So that's the surprise. But the fact that the president would have a chance to make his own appointments, that's not surprising.
BURNETT: So, he would get this appointment either way, but it coming on this day. And by the way, the president just moments ago, President Kashkari I'm sure you didn't get a chance to see this. Although it may not surprise you is saying that Powell should resign like Fed Governor Kugler. He has just come out and said that.
Is all of this unsettling. When you talk about the United States being the largest, strongest, most trusted economy in the world to see these changes at the fed, the president saying these things, the president firing the head of the BLS.
KASKHARI: Well, we know I can only speak for myself and my colleagues who have gotten to know very well at the Federal Reserve.
We are all committed to making our decisions based on the best data we can get our hands on, both government data and private sector data, and do what's right to try to achieve the dual mandate goals of 2 percent inflation and maximum employment that congress has assigned us. And I'm confident we will do everything in our power to make decisions just based on the data, not based on politics.
And that's what our charge is. And I'm confident we're going to live up to that.
BURNETT: So before we go in that context, it's been more than 30 years since there was a dissent on the Fed. Like we saw this week, two Fed governors going against Powell. I know obviously you didn't vote this week because that rotates. But you were in the room for the discussions.
Was there tension?
KASHKARI: No, there was no tension. Both -- both of the governor, Vice Chair Bowman and Governor Waller made their case of the economics that they saw, and they released statements today consistent with what they said at the meeting, laying out their rationale. And there was a very rich, robust debate and a wide range of views around the table.
And I think everybody is doing their very best to read the data and make the best calls that they can. And there was no tension that I detected.
BURNETT: All right. Well, President Kashkari, we appreciate your time. And thank you so much for coming on tonight.
KASHKARI: Thank you, Erin.
BURNETT: OUTFRONT now, Erica Groshen, the commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics under President Obama. So held the same job the Commissioner McEntarfer was fired at today.
So, Commissioner Groshen, and I appreciate your time.
I know when you ran the BLS, you were told that your position was safe from political meddling. And as long as you did your job right, your position was safe.
Is it clear that that's no longer the case? The president is saying that the numbers are rigged and that the commissioner is political.
ERICA GROSHEN, FORMER COMMISSIONER, BUREAU OF LABOR STATISTICS: Unfortunately, I think that that's going to have to be determined by Congress, and perhaps in the courts or something like that. But really, up until this point, that was not disputed.
[19:15:00]
If you look at any of the -- any of the descriptions of the autonomy that federal statistical agencies were given in order to protect the integrity of their work, it always mentions that the heads of statistical agencies do not serve at the pleasure of the president, but that they are experts -- technical experts whose terms -- they're either civil servants in some cases or they are technical, or they are presidential appointees, but they have fixed terms and that that that will span different.
BURNETT: So, can I ask you just one of the very basic things here? And I know 100-plus people put these numbers together. Any one person tries to do anything, the number wouldn't add up, right? I mean, the fact to make the argument that its rigged is, is obviously false.
However, the revisions were major. We do get major revisions sometimes at significant economic points and threatening tariffs of 160 percent on China. If there was a major economic point, you know, sort of a seismic event, one did happen in April. Does that add up to the revisions that we've seen? Does what we came out today and the -- and the -- and the large scale of the revision makes sense to you sure.
GROSHEN: I mean, I think the important thing is to realize that revisions are not a bug. They're a feature, right? They are the BLS tries three different times to get employers to report what their job, how many jobs they have, and sometimes the employers can't report it right away. So, the BLS imputes the number from behavior of other people, other companies like them, and history, right?
And it puts out the first monthly number because there's a lot of good information in it, but it's not complete. And then a month later it goes back and asks those employers again, they have another chance. And if they made a mistake, they have a chance to correct their mistakes. And it goes back a third time to make sure that that they got it right.
And so yes, we --
BURNETT: And I want to --
GROSHEN: -- BLS, I was just going to say that --
BURNETT: I just want to say it's consistent with -- yeah, I'm sorry that a bit of a delay, but what President Kashkari was just saying that the revisions themselves are consistent with what the Fed is hearing from private sources from individual businesses, right?
So, the numbers that came out today are consistent with everything else they are seeing as well.
Commissioner, can I ask you just to respond again and I'll play it for you specifically, what President Trump said about commissioner McEntarfer. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Going forward, why should anyone trust the numbers? And if you're --
TRUMP: You're right. No, you're right. Why should anybody trust numbers?
I believe the numbers were phony, just like they were before the election. And there were other times. So, you know what I did? I fired her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Commissioner, you've known Erica McEntarfer for more than 20 years. What's your response?
GROSHEN: She is a dedicated public servant. She's dedicated her whole career to public service. Her -- it's not a political position that she has -- it's a technical one. It's a leadership position. And she -- there's actually no way for her to manipulate those numbers because she doesn't see them until their final.
So, in order for her to have manipulated the numbers, there would be a clear record, you know, she would have disrupted the normal functioning of the BLS that happens every month. And you would -- I think you'd have whistleblowers. I think you'd have resignations, if anything like that happened.
And she would not be the -- she would not be the exemplary person that that every all the rest of us know her to be if that had happened. So this makes --
BURNETT: Yeah. GROSHEN: -- no sense at all.
And I want to note that, that there is no evidence on which. That has been presented that of her -- you know, doing something wrong, nor is there any evidence on which to base the idea that somehow we know those numbers are wrong. These are the numbers that have come out of more than 100,000 businesses, telling the BLS how many people they have on their payrolls.
[19:20:06]
BURNETT: Yeah.
All right. Well, Commissioner, I appreciate your time and thank you so much also for explaining, because I think this is one of those moments where we all need to understand exactly where these things come from. And, and you've explained it. So, thank you.
And OUTFRONT next, we have some breaking news. Jeffrey Epstein's longtime associate Ghislaine Maxwell, right, serving a 20-year prison sentence, will suddenly it just got a whole lot cushier. She's been moved to a new prison, a low security one with celebrity convicts, coming just days after she met with Trump's DOJ.
Plus, more breaking news. Trump saying that he's sending nuclear subs toward Russia after saber rattling from a major Russian official. We have new details coming up on this developing story.
And it's cool again to be Catholic. More American teens are flocking to Rome to celebrate what's being called Catholic Woodstock, inspired by the new American pope.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: If you could ask Pope Leo one thing, what would it be?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Deep dish or thin crust pizza?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:25:36]
BURNETT: Breaking news, this move smacks of a cover up. Those are the words of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwells accusers tonight, as Maxwell is transferred to a lower security prison. It's called Camp Bryan, and it is the least restrictive type of facility among all federal prisons in the United States. Minimal fencing -- I mean, you can look at it. Inmates can move relatively freely inside.
It comes just one week after Maxwell spent two days speaking to Trump's deputy attorney general Todd Blanche, and now a complete and total change in her circumstances. No reason has been given for this sudden and unexpected move. Maxwell's attorney, though, had indicated that she was looking for a
pardon from Trump. Someone, of course, that she has known personally for decades.
Maxwell now is a convicted child sex trafficker. She is known to lie to Virginia Giuffre, who was one of Epstein and Maxwell's most outspoken accusers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VIRGINIA GIUFFRE, ACCUSED OF JEFFREY EPSTEIN OF SEX TRAFFICKING: I believe she doesn't think that what she did was wrong. That's the kind of evil monster she is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Giuffre died by suicide in April. An evil monster is what she called Maxwell. Giuffre spent decades struggling to recover from what she said happened to her at the hands of Epstein and Maxwell.
Ed Lavandera is OUTFRONT. He is in Bryan, Texas.
So, outside that facility, the prison where Maxwell is now being held, you know, Ed, you know, sometimes high profile prisoners moving takes months and months and months and months, and then maybe it's going to happen and maybe it isn't. These aren't just sudden about-face things.
And now, suddenly, Ghislaine Maxwell shows up at this prison in Texas. What are you learning about this prison, and what Maxwell can expect there?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it appears to have happened rather quickly. And one of the first things, Erin, that strikes you as you pull up to this prison camp in Bryan, Texas, is that there's very little of it that is surrounded by tall fencing and razor wire. You can see the black metal fence, the kind of fencing that you would see in many residential neighborhoods across the country, really speaks to the minimal security of this particular facility.
We're told that there are more than 600 female inmates here. We should also point out, highly unusual for someone like Ghislaine Maxwell to be transferred to this particular unit, considering the crimes that Maxwell has been convicted of. This is a facility and the federal -- what they describe as federal prison camps that usually have low risk, nonviolent offenders that are not believed to be an escape threat as well. But there are a number of high-profile inmates at this facility behind me.
You have Jen Shaw, who was one of the cast members of "The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City", as well as Elizabeth Holmes, who was the executive of that blood testing company, Theranos, and part of a high profile criminal trial several years ago. And this particular facility, which we should also point out, Erin, sits in the middle of a residential neighborhood here in Bryan, has areas around the grounds where outdoor recreation areas where you can exercise and walk around. There's also an area literally by the entrance into the camp
underneath some oak trees in the shade, with benches and seats with a single chain around it that says anything beyond that is considered to be out of bounds. That sits at the entrance into the prison camp. Weve reached out to prison officials, federal prison officials, to explain how the move and the transfer of Maxwell to this particular facility happened, and we have not received word on those details -- Erin.
BURNETT: Crucial details.
Ed Lavandera, thank you so much.
Just imagine looking where -- I mean, I don't want to overstate it, but it looks like you're standing in front of a pretty nice place. You talk about it being in a residential neighborhood, and that's exactly the feel from the image where it is standing.
OUTFRONT now, Mimi Rocha, she's former prosecutor for the southern district of New York. She's joined by Barry Levine, author of "The Spider: Inside the Criminal Web of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell".
Good to see you both.
So, Mimi, when you see where Ed's standing and that behind him, it's sort of a nice looking black fence. You know, when he talked about the residential neighborhood he's in and then he talked about other well- known inmates at Camp Bryan, Jen Shaw, Elizabeth Holmes, these are white collar criminal convictions.
Maxwell is serving a 20-year sentence for child sex trafficking, right? Pedophilia. She's only served a few years, and it seems like this came about very suddenly.
[19:30:03]
Can you just explain? Is it unusual for somebody to just suddenly be moved to the lowest security type of facility in her position?
MIMI ROCAH, FORMER SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK DIVISION CHIEF: Yeah, Erin, it's extremely unusual. There are so many things about this that raise red flags. First of all, as you mentioned, you know, this happened very quickly. Normally, if someone gets transferred from one prison to another while serving a sentence, the U.S. marshals transfer you and that can take weeks or even months. Believe me, I know, I've tried to get prisoners, you know, transferred when I needed them for some purpose when I was a prosecutor. And you cannot move the U.S. marshals quickly because they take them on a security route.
The reporting that I saw somewhere indicated that she had been moved by Bureau of Prisons. So that right there is unusual. Why is she getting special transportation? Why is someone who should be in according to BOP regulations, a minimum -- sorry, a low security facility unless it is waived. That is the only way she can go to a minimum security like this. So, does that mean that the Department of Justice Todd Blanche, has
now waived her security level, waiving for child predators? This is a woman who had her hands on teenagers who used -- I mean, when you read this, the sentencing transcript by the judge, the findings that she made are chilling. And if I were a parent in that residential neighborhood now where Ghislaine Maxwell has been put, I -- it seems by the Department of Justice, I would not be happy about that. I would be quite afraid, frankly.
BURNETT: Yeah, yeah. And just to make, you know, an exclamation point on something you said, Mimi, you were talking about the transfers. They take -- it takes so long. I mean, I know just dealing with some prisoners recently, then they disappear for weeks often, right? It's not like you go straight from point A to point B, you have no communications, and it can take you weeks to get from A to B because you go via many other places, right? This is just completely abnormal.
Barry, is there a reason that Maxwell may have wanted that Texas specifically, not just the level of security, the timing, all of it that Mimi is laying out, but why Texas? Is there something about it that could have mattered to her?
BARRY LEVINE, AUTHOR, "THE SPIDER: INSIDE THE CRIMINAL WEB OF JEFFREY EPSTEIN & GHISLAINE MAXWELL": Well, Erin, we do know that Ghislaine's sister lives in in the Dallas area, and her and her brother-in-law. But I have to say, this is a -- some type of sweetheart transfer, you know, this thing is just -- the victims are completely traumatized over this, you know? I mean, the judge who sentenced her, Alison Nathan, said her actions constituted a horrific scheme. The U.S. attorney said it was heinous crimes against children.
This is not where she belongs. This is absolutely a slap in the face to the victims who -- the four victims who testified against her at trial. This is horrible.
BURNETT: Mimi, so can someone like Todd Blanche, who's number two at the DOJ. He met with her, obviously at the facility in Florida, right when they said, oh, she talked about 100 people. That was just last week.
So is it -- I mean, when you are convicted, convicted of crimes like this, serving a 20-year sentence, can the DOJ just suddenly come in and say, oh, we waive your security levels, we're going to arrange special transport. We're going to put you in another. Could this actually just have happened by order by Blanche in just the past few days?
ROCAH: Yes, I believe so. I mean, look, we don't know for sure.
BURNETT: Wow.
ROCAH: And, you know, I will be happy to be proven wrong, but all the arrows point to the idea that this was a quid pro quo. This was an exchange for meeting with them. Whether she gave information or not. I don't know or what that was, but the way that, you know, it seems like someone just snapped their fingers and made this happen and be a DOJ has the control to do that.
And I just want to make one other quick point, which is at sentencing. Judge Nathan also found that Maxwell had been not truthful about allegations she was making about her conditions of confinement. In a BOP facility at the time, and they had to do all sorts of investigations. I mean, they followed up on all of them and found them to the judge, found them not to be credible. BOP found them not to be credible.
And so that is not the kind of person that BOP on its own is going to say, hey, let's give you a benefit. This had to come from somewhere else. And I totally agree with Barry that, you know, we really need to think about the impact this is having on the victims here.
BURNETT: And, Barry, you know, the DOJ here is obviously run by Pam Bondi. Blanche's number two, it's Trump's DOJ.
[19:35:03]
Trump and Maxwell have known each other for decades, and very well during much of that time.
So, as we try to understand what role he could have played in any of this, how well do they know each other?
LEVINE: Well, Erin, they go back to the -- to the late '80s when Ghislaine Maxwells father, the press baron, wanted to make inroads into America. And in fact, he brought his daughter -- Ghislaine was turning 30 then to America. They had parties on his yacht, which was called the Lady Ghislaine, in New York harbor, and he -- and Robert Maxwell entertained Donald Trump. He, Donald Trump, was interested in a Trump branded magazine.
Trump got to know Ghislaine at the time, and also in that circle of -- that social circle was Jeffrey Epstein. So, you know, the three of them actually go back very far away. And I'm just fearful that -- that this could end in some type of a pardon. It's very disturbing.
BURNETT: Something that you would hope would be dealt with bipartisan refusal.
Thank you both so very much.
And next, President Trump saying he's repositioning two U.S. nuclear submarines after a new and provocative threat from Russia.
Plus, one Republican congressman getting an earful at his town hall.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I see no leadership. I see following Trump 100 percent of the time and Trump's lead has been --
(CHEERS)
(END VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: You'll see how he responds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:40:53]
BURNETT: Breaking news, President Trump moments ago, doubling down on his social media post saying that he has directed two American nuclear submarines toward Russian water.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We had to do that. We just have to be careful. And a threat was made and we didn't think it was appropriate. So, I have to be very careful. So I do that on the basis of safety for our people. A threat was made by a former president of Russia, and we're going to protect our people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right. The threat that he is referring to does come from the former Russian president, also now currently very senior in the Russian defense department, Dmitri Medvedev. He is now the deputy chair of Russia's security council.
And Medvedev said, and I quote, "Let Trump remember his favorite films about "The Walking Dead", as well as how dangerous a dead hand that does not exist in nature can be."
Now, the dead hand is a reference to Russia's dead hand system. Basically, even if you knock everybody out with a nuclear strike, the Kremlin is destroyed. The system will automatically fire back. That's the dead hand pushing the button.
And it comes as Russian President Vladimir Putin tonight said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Russia isn't capturing territory. We are returning what's rightfully ours.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I want to go straight to Natasha Bertrand. She's at the Pentagon. And our Nick Paton Walsh, who is right now on the ground in Kyiv, both with us on this breaking news on this Friday.
And, Natasha, Trump doubling down on this, right, sending nuclear submarines towards Russia. Obviously, when you think about the context here, what Putin is saying, this couldn't come at a more fraught time.
NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yeah, I mean, this is a very thinly veiled threat, not only by Medvedev but also by President Trump. And it's maybe an empty one because we don't actually know where these submarines are. That is by design. We may never know because their location at any given time is one of the most closely held secrets by the U.S. military officials. That is why the location of these submarines is very rarely publicly discussed.
But, you know, we also don't know what kind of submarines President Trump is talking about. All of the Navy's submarines are nuclear power, but only about 14 of them can actually carry nuclear warheads. So that is unclear as well.
But they are regularly carrying out these kinds of patrols in international waters, and they can hit targets thousands of miles away. So if President Trump really wanted to order some kind of strike on the Russians, then he could have done that without telegraphing this publicly -- of course, without even having to move them any closer to Russia than they perhaps already are as part of their routine patrols.
But at the very least, this is a very clear message to the Russians at a very sensitive moment between Washington and Moscow because of the tensions over these peace talks with the Ukrainians that are simply not materializing, because President Putin continues, of course, to ignore President Trump's entreaties to come to the table here, Erin.
BURNETT: And, Nick, you know, as you know, and you're on the ground in Kyiv tonight, Medvedev thrives on provocation, right? Dire nuclear threats, right? Which are not nothing, but most world leaders dismiss them as real threats.
But Trump tonight doing something different, right? Wanting to publicly acknowledge it, even though he has ignored some of Medvedev's past threats of nuclear Armageddon. So, you know, when you take that, plus what we're hearing from Putin today, right? What he said, Putin today, he talked about, Nick, it was, quote, taking back what's rightfully ours, certainly seeming to imply why do a ceasefire if he could go ahead and continue to win militarily in Ukraine. So how is this playing out on the front line?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, I mean, it's utterly bizarre that Medvedev, someone who's been kind of tuned out, frankly, for the last three and a half years, whenever he makes a particularly wide ranging apocalyptic threats as just somebody who doesn't have agency within the Kremlin is the one who sparks this unprecedented, frankly, public discussion of American nuclear assets by U.S. president -- something, frankly, that never happens.
[19:45:07]
And you wouldn't really expect to hear from the White House.
Clearly, Trump feeling he has to escalate back, not wanting the Kremlin to feel they can idly threaten the United States. So that leads us into a very complex week ahead, because on August the 8th, just under seven days from now, Trump has to decide to implement the sanctions against Russian energy consumers that he's threatened if, as it seems, Putin doesn't come to a sudden peace agreement and Putin himself returning to his maximalist demands, saying that they're taking back what's rightfully theirs, is the Russian narrative that Ukraine doesn't really exist as a country that led to the invasion in February 2022.
He's going back to those wider ideas, not shifting in the slightest. And earlier today saying Trump's disappointment in him is down to unrealistic expectations.
Look, Putin was clear they're having success on the front lines. That's something we've seen over the last weeks reporting along the eastern front line. He's confident that will indeed continue. And so there's no sign at all, frankly, from the words were hearing in Moscow, that any kind of successful peace is imminent.
And so that makes this odd, weird nuclear bluster we've just heard, coupled with the week ahead of that deadline next weekend, so incredibly fraught and important.
But some Ukrainians, frankly, will hear this and think, this is the United States potentially suggesting military involvement here, or talk back to Moscow. And that will lift hearts here -- Erin.
BURNETT: Yeah, sometimes the rhetoric of the U.S. using the word nuclear, that rhetoric alone, as you point out, unprecedented. And that may be what matters most.
Thank you both so much with us on that breaking news, Nick and Natasha.
And next, angry voters taking on their lawmaker.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We would like to know what you who are supposed to rein in this dictator, what are you going to do about it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right, so are any Trump policies backfiring? What are we seeing in these town halls across the country?
And tonight, young Americans flocking to Rome. And it's not to see the Colosseum, although maybe. Sure, in part its actually because of Pope Leo now getting rock star treatment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:51:21]
BURNETT: Tonight, a Republican congressman facing a deeply hostile crowd in his home district. Questions about Gaza immigration, unwavering support for Trump. Are any of these policies backfiring for some Republicans?
Tom Foreman is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Trump seems to run southeast Wisconsin through you.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Republican Congressman Bryan Steil was hammered at a town hall style event back in Wisconsin, over foreign affairs --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two million people in Gaza are starving.
FOREMAN: Immigration, consumer prices, tariffs --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was always under the impression that Congress was responsible for issuing the tariffs.
(CHEERS)
FOREMAN: And his party seemingly ceaseless bowing to the will of President Donald Trump.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I see no leadership. I see following Trump 100 percent of the time and Trump's --
FOREMAN: Steil pushed back, but with limited success.
REP. BRYAN STEIL (R-WI): We'll probably agree to disagree on some of my answer here, but what I view is the moral hazard created by the Biden administration by allowing the U.S. --
(BOOS)
FOREMAN: Before Congress gaveled out for the summer break, some analysts predicted a possible pounding back home for the GOP, in part over the largely unpopular funding bill just passed.
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): If you want to shout and chant, we will have you removed.
FOREMAN: After all, Republican lawmakers caught hell in the spring break, too, as Trump's second term was just picking up steam.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We would like to know what you who are supposed to rein in this dictator, what are you going to do about it?
FOREMAN: Back then, the president's party dismissed many of the loudest voices as Democrats, rabblerousers.
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: They're doing this for the cameras. We all know it. And I think it's wise not to play into it right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are all immigrants.
FOREMAN: To be sure. It's often hard to know the precise motivation for anyone at these meetings, and some Democrats are getting grilled as well.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have done nothing. You have done nothing. FOREMAN: But with polls now showing Trump's approval ratings
considerably down and disapproval rating up since the start of the year, some Dems like Congressman Mark Pocan, are ready to take a little fire, even holding a town hall in a Republican lawmaker's district.
REP. MARK POCAN (D-WI): He's simply missing in action once again.
FOREMAN: If that will keep turning up the heat on the GOP.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am so disappointed.
(CHEERS)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN (on camera): It is quite a scene out there. We don't know how it's going to go as they have more meetings. What we do know is this they may be able to withstand the fire right now. The thing they have to worry about is if that sizzle is still out there next year, when the midterms come around -- Erin.
BURNETT: Tom, thank you very much.
FOREMAN: You're welcome.
BURNETT: And next, the Catholic Church is having a moment. Young Americans are suddenly flocking to the Vatican for what's being called Catholic Woodstock. Take a look at that. We'll take you there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:57:53]
BURNETT: And on this Friday, pontiff like a rock star? All right, well, American teens and social media influencers are flooding the Holy See this week for what's being called Catholic Woodstock. They're hoping to get a selfie with the first American pope.
CNN's Christopher Lamb is there OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
POPE LEO XIV, CATHOLIC CHURCH: You are the light of the world.
CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A surprise appearance by Pope Leo in front of thousands of young Catholics. The future of the church is gathered in Rome in what's being dubbed a Catholic Woodstock. The mega youth gathering, part of the church's jubilee year celebrations, bringing together an estimated hundreds of thousands from every corner of the globe.
Many of them camping out in warehouses like this one, all part of the festival atmosphere. Not tourists, but pilgrims.
Among those on the streets of Rome, youngsters from Leo's hometown of Chicago, like him, fans of the White Sox and the city's pizza.
VICTORIA AGUIRRE, U.S. PILGRIM: It is such like once in a lifetime experience to just be here, gathered with so many teens of the same faith from around the world.
LAMB: And if you could ask Pope Leo one thing, what would it be?
AGUIRRE: Deep dish or thin crust pizza?
LAMB: This week, Leo was handed a slice from Aurelio's Pizza, his favorite.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amazing.
POPE LEO XIV: Amazing.
LAMB: It's less than 100 days since Leo's election, and he's still settling into his new role. But this week is a big test.
The long-term trend shows an uptick in young people disaffiliating from mainline religions in the West. But for the Catholic Church, some research points to a growing interest among Gen-Zers in Catholicism.
To that end, Pope Leo meeting Catholic social media influencers this week who were trying to reach a younger generation, and who have turned out in force.
There are also events like this one where young people are invited to go to confession. There are hundreds of tents laid out for them to go and receive the sacrament of reconciliation. Same time, though, there's huge enthusiasm for Pope Leo.
JEAN MATTHIEU BILLES NOL, U.S. PILGRIM: I feel like I already know the guy, you know, and just -- just seeing him walk down with the papal cars and him seeing the American flag and just waving at us, it's super exciting. And I feel like he truly loves us.
LAMB: And at a time of uncertainty, political and otherwise, young people finding in their faith and Pope Leo a reason to hope.
Christopher Lamb, CNN, Rome.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: And thanks so much for joining us. A good way to end on this Friday.
"AC360" starts now.
