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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump Warns Putin Of "Severe Consequences" If He Doesn't End War; Dems Demand Maxwell Prison Transfer Docs, DOJ Interview Transcript; National Guard's Presence In DC "Significantly Higher" Tonight; ICE Planes Making It Harder To Track Flights & The Detainees Inside. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired August 13, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:27]
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Severe consequences. Trump's new threat to Putin if he doesn't end the war in Ukraine. But will that change when the two meet face to face?
Plus, is the Justice Department tampering with a witness to protect Trump? Democrats are demanding answers now from the attorney general. The top Democrat on the Judiciary Committee is my guest.
And ICE deportation planes flying in secrecy as the number of flights are skyrocketing. The planes are becoming impossible to track until we found one. A special report you'll see first here tonight.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan, in for Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, breaking news, President Trump conceding he can't control Russian President Vladimir Putin even as Trump issues a new threat to Putin ahead of their Alaska summit set for less than 48 hours from now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Will Russia face any consequences if Vladimir Putin does not agree to stop the war after your meeting on Friday?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes, they will. Yeah.
REPORTER: What will the consequences be?
TRUMP: There will be consequences.
REPORTER: Sanctions? Tariffs?
TRUMP: There will be -- I don't have to say. There will be very severe consequences.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLDUAN: But it's unclear why President Trump thinks this will pressure Putin to end his war in Ukraine, because Trump has set deadlines for Putin before and threaten consequences, and nothing has changed.
Pay close attention to the dates on these videos.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If I'm president, I will have that war settled in one day, 24 hours.
I will have that war settled when I'm president-elect. Meaning before I get to office on January 20th.
I will settle the war in Ukraine before I even take office. I'll settle it as president-elect.
REPORTER: Do you trust President Putin?
TRUMP: You know, in about two weeks.
REPORTER: Do you still believe that Putin actually wants to end the war?
TRUMP: I can't tell you that, but I'll let you know in about two weeks.
I'm going to make a new deadline of about 10 -- 10 or 12 days from today.
Ten days from today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Every single one of those deadlines has clearly passed, and the war continues. If anything, Putin has only stepped up his attacks on Ukraine. In fact, July was the deadliest month for civilians in Ukraine in more than three years.
And what is President Trump going to do about it? It is hard to know because even he admitted there's really nothing much he can do to stop Putin on any front.
Today, the president was asked if he can convince Putin to just stop targeting civilians in Ukraine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'll tell you what? I've had that conversation with him. I've had a lot of good conversations with him. Then I go home and I see that a rocket hit a nursing home or a rocket hit an apartment building, and people are laying dead in the street.
So, I guess the answer to that is no, because I've had this conversation. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: And also then, what about Putin's continued attacks on the United States through hacking?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Are you surprised? You know, are you surprised they hack in? Thats what they do. They're good at it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: So essentially, a resigned shrug from the president of the United States.
We've got all the angles of this story covered for you tonight. Kristen Holmes is at the White House. Nick Paton Walsh is on the ground in Kyiv.
Kristen, let me start with you. Trump is making a long trip for this summit. And Trump's prior warnings to Putin very clearly haven't gotten him anywhere. Does the president really think this time is different?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's unclear. And it is clear from what President Trump is saying that he doesn't really know if anything is going to change. Thats why you're hearing him. That's why you're hearing the white house hedge so much when it comes to this meeting.
Every time he says something like, right after the meeting, I'm going to try to set up that three-person meeting. Then he corrects himself and says, if it goes well. This is all because president Trump has been disappointed and in some ways embarrassed by the Russian president time and time again.
What we're told is that President Trump really does believe that he can get a better sense of where Putin stands in all of this from sitting down with him, and he's tired of talking to him on the phone. President Trump has had a series of conversations with the Russian president that really haven't ended where he wanted them to. We know that he heard him say it there, that he's asked Putin at times to stop bombing, to end what's happening in Ukraine. Putin gives him kind of a back and forth answer, and then does not stop at all.
So, he's been growing increasingly frustrated. We are told, by officials close to Trump that he believes this sit down is going to give him the answers. He needs that on the phone. He's not getting a clear idea of whether or not Putin is serious, but that if he sits down with him, hell get a better sense of where Putin is.
[19:05:01]
Obviously, he himself is hedging this, downplaying result, really just trying to get in the room with him. They clearly understand that there could be nothing that comes out of this. BOLDUAN: And how he can trust that he's not being tapped along yet again, as he said previously.
Kristen, thanks.
Nick Paton Walsh, let's get to you OUTFRONT live in Kyiv.
You've been talking to your sources all day, Nick. Do the Ukrainians and Europeans feel that they got through to President Trump on this call that happened today?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY: I mean, they have urgently tried to project all day the idea of what their messages were to Trump and that he was listening. But I think ultimately there is a recognition that when Trump and Putin get in the room together, that is a huge roll of the dice. And they've seen in the past Trump get dragged back towards Moscow's narrative when talking or meeting with Putin. So that's a huge concern.
Trump has, according to some European diplomats, suggested that he won't make deals about Ukrainian territory without Ukraine being involved. That's a key European ask here. But he's also said that land swaps are an integral part of these discussions, so it's hard to imagine how he gets into the discussion about what peace would look like with Putin without discussing territory.
Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, alongside the German chancellor Friedrich Merz, who hosted him in person in berlin today for a virtual conference with Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance and other European leaders. Zelenskyy reaffirmed that he's not going to be giving up any parts of the Donetsk region that Ukraine still controls as part of a deal.
That seems to have been one of the ideas emerging from us, special envoy Steve Witkoff's meeting with the Kremlin last week. I have to tell you, there are European officials I'm speaking to who are still kind of in consternation about how Witkoff has handled the results of those meetings, one calling him amateurish on the matters of utmost importance, another saying that negotiations are a lot clearer when Witkoff is not involved.
So, I think there's concerns about that, that's percolated throughout the whole week with Europeans trying to catch up on exactly what that idea has really been. Look, today, we heard from Friedrich Merz, the German chancellor, that they will not accept legal recognition of Russian occupied parts of Ukraine as being Russian territory. We've heard, too, from Merz. The idea they believe there could be serious decisions made in Alaska, very much not playing down like the white house were 24 hours later.
Zelenskyy has said he could end up going to Alaska as well. And one European official I spoke to familiar with Trump's call with the Europeans. They seem to think that the threat is on still of secondary sanctions against Russia's major energy customers, thinking that the threats against India, one of those had an obvious effect on Moscow's thinking, they believe, but still great anxiety about the unpredictable nature of what may follow in Alaska -- Kate.
BOLDUAN: Yeah, and those -- those sanctions, many think, may be the last chance, the last avenue, the last path to try to change the course of where this is headed.
Nick, thank you so much.
I want to bring in now, Fareed Zakaria, host of "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS", of course.
Fareed, this threat now from the president of severe consequences if Putin doesn't basically give in to a ceasefire, finally -- I mean, Trump's already as Nick was just talking, he's hit India with this new tariff for buying Russian oil and gas. But the real punch would be hitting China with the same. Do you see President Trump doing that? I mean, if not, what severe consequences are left?
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": Well, you have it exactly right, Kate. It's a -- it's a paper gun that he's aiming at the Russians. If India were to stop buying Russian oil and if China were to stop buying a Russian oil, oil would go to $150 a barrel, right? You'd be taking a huge amount of supply off the market, which would plunge the western world into a recession. So, Trump doesn't actually even want that to happen.
More importantly, China is not going to listen to him on that. The Chinese have a long, very close relationship with Russia, so that whole threat is meaningless. The threat of more sanctions is largely meaningless. The only thing that matters to Vladimir Putin is battleground success. What Trump could do is give Ukraine much more support in military terms, in terms of arms and weapons, ammunition and logistics, intel.
But for some reason, he's really never wanted to go down that path. So, my gut is Vladimir Putin understands what I just said pretty well. And I don't think this is going to scare him.
BOLDUAN: Well, on that, I mean, Russia's foreign ministry says that Russia won't swap any land after Trump said with certainty that he would be there'd be land swapping in any peace deal, and the German chancellor, as Nick just noted, said that legal recognition of occupied Ukrainian territory is not up for discussion.
It sounds like they're all talking past each other already.
ZAKARIA: Yeah, well, it's not even clear what Donald Trump meant when he talked about land swapping.
[19:10:03]
BOLDUAN: Yeah.
ZAKARIA: The Ukrainians have no Russian territory. They have not -- they have not, you know, been the aggressors. They don't have Russian territory. They don't have land to swap. They are defending their country. The Russians do have land. And I think the German chancellor put it
exactly right. This would be the -- one of the rare cases, perhaps the only case since 1945, where we would be ratifying an aggressive war. And, you know, territorial conquest. And it's frankly shameful that the president of the United States should be cavalierly talking about legitimizing, you know, massive aggression by a rogue regime for the first time since World War II. And it's the Europeans who have to point out that this is -- this is not okay, and that they will not go along with it.
You know, what exists on the ground exists, but there should be no legal recognition or reward of Russia's aggression.
BOLDUAN: And, Fareed, just simply on location, just even that. I mean, the summit will be Putin's first time on U.S. soil in ten years, and he's actually being hosted at a U.S. military base, the same base that's been used to intercept Russian warplanes in the region, seen by many as a victory for Putin already. I mean, what do you think?
ZAKARIA: Look, I do think it is a victory. John Bolton, Trump's former national security advisor, said this is exactly what Putin has been -- has been looking for.
What's strange about the way that Donald Trump handles Putin and he's not like this with everyone. He is, generally speaking, a competent negotiator. He has goals that I may not agree with, but he often negotiates using leverage in an intelligent, rational way.
What he's doing with Putin from the start has made no sense. Putin had a certain set of goals that he was trying to achieve. He wanted to keep all the territory he had conquered. He wanted to make sure that Ukraine was not part of NATO, and he wanted to make sure that U.S. troops would not be in Ukraine at any point.
Trump gave all the concessions before even beginning the negotiation. So similarly, one of Putin's great goals here has been to be legitimized and be able to travel in a place like the United States or Europe. He can't go to Europe because there are warrants out for his arrest. You know, under the International Criminal Court.
So why give him a concession OUTFRONT? I mean, isn't, you know, the great negotiator is supposed to understand this, that you get something in return for a concession, like you get to come to the United States, go to an army air base, all that kind of thing.
So, it's all somewhat puzzling. You know, some of us have been saying it wouldn't work from the start. I still hold out hope because it is true that both sides are war weary. Both sides are fatigued.
There is an opportunity here, and I think one has to wish Donald Trump well because it would end an enormous amount of human suffering. But he's gone about it in a very odd way, which is repeated multiple concessions to the Russians, repeated multiple pressure on the Ukrainians, whereas in fact, the problem is the other way around. It's the Russians who need to feel the pressure.
BOLDUAN: Yeah, just raising the stakes once again on what we are going to see play out on Friday.
Fareed, it's really great to see you. Thank you so much.
OUTFRONT for us next, House Democrats accusing Trump's DOJ of giving Ghislaine Maxwell special treatment, raising concerns of even witness tampering. The top Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, Jamie Raskin, joins us next.
Plus, more breaking news this hour. National Guard troops expanding their presence in D.C. tonight. You can see a large police presence also gathering this hour. Trump is now signaling his police takeover could extend beyond 30 days. We're on the ground.
And ICE flights are now so hidden, tracking them has never been harder. But we found one and followed it. Special report next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:18:22]
BOLDUAN: Tonight, Democrats are now demanding answers. Members of the house judiciary committee firing off a letter to Attorney General Pam Bondi and the head of the Bureau of Prisons, saying that they want a host of documents about Ghislaine Maxwell's transfer to a minimum security prison, a transfer that happened shortly after she met with the deputy attorney general about the Epstein files.
The lawmakers are also demanding a transcript of Maxwell's interview with that deputy attorney general, saying in part in this letter, quote, these actions raised substantial concerns that the administration may now be attempting to tamper with a crucial witness conceal President Trump's relationship with convicted sex offenders, and coax Ms. Maxwell into providing false or misleading testimony in order to protect the president.
OUTFRONT now, the top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, Congressman Jamie Raskin.
Congressman, thanks for coming in. So, say they do comply with your requests and demands here. What do you think is in these documents?
REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): Well, look at the bizarreness of this situation. Sex offenders are not allowed in that Texas camp, which I've heard referred to as Club Fed. So, she gets a transfer from a maximum security prison in Tallahassee to a minimum security camp pretty much instantaneously, overnight after she's visited by Todd Blanche, who was Donald Trump's personal criminal defense lawyer just ten months ago. And he liked what he heard from her.
Donald Trump's former defense lawyer, who's now deputized over at the Department of Justice. And he's apparently arranged for this transfer.
[19:20:01]
Now, even for people who are allowed to be transferred normally, that's a process that takes months. You've got to demonstrate why there's some compelling reason you need to be moved from one facility to another, a change in the facts of your case, or a change in the law. And then, even if you're granted the permission to switch, it generally takes months to get off the wait list.
Well, she bypassed that entire process and is just moved over to that facility. Obviously, the administration is sending the message to her that she will be rewarded for the proper cooperation. Blanche liked what he heard her saying in terms of Donald Trump. And we know that's all they've been concerned about. They're not concerned about the victims.
They're not concerned about ongoing sex abuse, trafficking, if there's any that's taking place, what they're concerned about is Donald Trump, because they had an army of more than a thousand FBI agents working around the clock searching for any mention of Donald Trump's name or any photograph or any video glimpse of him in all of these documents.
So, we want everything turned over, like Donald Trump. We're demanding of the Epstein file, and we want a transcript in the original recording of all of his interviews with her, because they sacked one of the attorneys who had been on that case for a long time, he didn't bring any of the line prosecutors with him. And Todd Blanche engaged in that questioning or that conversation totally on his own.
BOLDUAN: Congressman, you gave a deadline of August 26th, 13 days from now. If they don't comply, what then? What can -- what can you do? What power do you have?
RASKIN: Well, we don't want to give away what we're going to do at that point, but the whole country wants this information. We think that there's a strong bipartisan majority in congress that is demanding release of the Epstein file and no cover up. I mean, this thing just stinks to high heaven when you have a person that close to President Trump going and spending many hours with Ghislaine Maxwell, and then suddenly she gets this movie star treatment within the federal Bureau of Prisons, it just makes no sense.
BOLDUAN: When you talk about bipartisan calls. I spoke yesterday on this show to your counterpart, the top Democrat on the House Oversight Committee, Robert Garcia. I want to play for you what he told me about Republican congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna's statement that sending a subpoena to Alex Acosta, the former prosecutor who gave Epstein a sweetheart deal in Florida years ago, that that subpoenaing Alex Acosta is not off the table.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ROBERT GARCIA (D-CA): That's something that we want to work with her on. She has been someone that believes. I know, in transparency and accountability, and I know there are other Republicans who are also pushing to get the facts out. We just want the truth out. And I think, like, Congresswoman, we don't care at the end of the day, who gets implicated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: You have been vocal about the need to hear from Alex Acosta, but why aren't Democrats shouting this from the rooftops now? And let's be honest, in years past?
RASKIN: Well, we were when he was the secretary of labor, and that was why he was essentially forced out of his position rather than come testify to Congress about why he gave Jeffrey Epstein that sweetheart contract, exchanging a 60-count federal criminal indictment on all of the sex abuse trafficking for one count of solicitation. He decided just to abandon his post and resign from the cabinet.
So we believe that there's a lot of smoke there and there's a lot of fire there. And we do need to reeducate people, as you're saying, to get people to remember, hey, this cover up started a long time ago with Epstein's lawyers and Alex Acosta when he was the U.S. attorney for the southern district of Florida.
BOLDUAN: Well, I'm very interested to hear what you hear back. If you hear back and when you hear back on your request regarding Ghislaine Maxwell's transfer.
Congressman, thank you very much for your time.
And here with me now on that is our legal expert, Ryan Goodman.
You're listening to this with me, Ryan. I mean, you have Jamie Raskin and others making sending this letter. You also had Democratic Senator Sheldon Whitehouse. He previously had sent made a similar request, about the Maxwell prison transfer.
Are you -- are they right to suspect in your mind that there's something "there" there?
RYAN GOODMAN, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL AT DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE: There are a number of red flags. It is deeply suspicious. And some of it's the timing.
So, the fact that this occurs after she has actually subpoenaed by the House side of Congress, which means Republicans voting in favor of that subpoena, then the deputy attorney general, I would say, rushes to her, meet with her. That's highly unusual. And then, as the letter says, which is also very revealing, that there's no line prosecutor with him, that's also unusual because he doesn't really know the case.
If you really want to be in there with her, going toe to toe and verifying what she says, you would have one of the line prosecutors that brought her to trial and knows the case inside out.
[19:25:05]
BOLDUAN: There are a few other things when you're looking through this letter that really stuck out to you. What is it?
GOODMAN: So, the members of the Congress that are citing to this actually backed this up in their footnotes that the fact that there was actually a queue. There's a waiting list, even if the waiver got approved, that would allow somebody as a sex offender to go to this minimum security prison, that alone is unusual.
But then this would have to wait on a list. She jumped the whole list. So that's also very unusual. It really is special treatment for a very high-level offender. And that's one part of it.
BOLDUAN: Who do you think should be most worried or concerned if Alex Acosta now moving, moving to that element of it, if Alex Acosta does ultimately come before Congress and testify about Epstein?
GOODMAN: I think Alex Acosta needs to worry about Alex Acosta. Yeah, I think he -- he engaged in what "The Miami Herald" broke as the deal of the century. The fact that Jeffrey Epstein got --
BOLDUAN: He was somewhat reprimanded by the Justice Department, right?
GOODMAN: Absolutely. They said that he engaged in improper behavior in the way in which he did it. Now, they didn't go all the way through and say unethical and illegal, but they, for example, one of the things they fault him for, and I would love to hear him have to say, this is why did he end the investigation when it had not really reached its conclusion?
They actually say witnesses were waiting to be interviewed, and if they were interviewed by the FBI, they might have led to other culprits. Thats one of the biggest questions for him. And then the other big question for him is, did you receive any communications from wealthy or powerful individuals that suggested to you to go easy on Mr. Epstein? And that would be -- those people need to worry if they did send that kind of communication that needs to be transparent.
BOLDUAN: And that gets to why there is this bipartisan push.
GOODMAN: Absolutely.
BOLDUAN: Push for information on this, because it's not necessarily pointing a finger at a Republican or a Democrat. It could be much -- it could be all.
GOODMAN: Yeah. The first person in the Congress was actually Senator Ben Sasse, at the time a Republican, who went right after Acosta while Acosta was a Republican member of the cabinet and said, this is putrid. What has happened here? There needs to be answers. And that's when Acosta then actually steps down.
BOLDUAN: Yeah. Thanks, Ryan.
GOODMAN: Yeah.
BOLDUAN: Great to see you.
OUTFRONT next, breaking news. We're going to show you. Look at that. Live pictures of Trump -- President Trump's national guard troops in Washington, D.C. the number on the ground is growing tonight. And a special report on ICE detainee flights operating in secret.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's on approach. It's on approach right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:32:08]
BOLDUAN: The breaking news, President Trump intensifying the National Guard presence around Washington, D.C. Now, a White House official tells CNN the presence on the ground tonight is significantly higher than past nights, and it's now expanding to 24/7 shifts instead of just nighttime enforcement.
The president is signaling that this now could go beyond the 30 days that he's currently authorized to take over the city's police force.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're going to be asking for extensions on that long term extensions, because you can't have 30 days. I don't want to call national emergency. If I have to, I will.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Brian Todd OUTFRONT for us live from D.C., where the guard and other federal units are staging.
Brian, what are you seeing tonight?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, we're at probably the biggest staging area of any for this operation here in Washington. This is the national park police headquarters in the Anacostia section of Washington, D.C., and just about every federal agency is staging from here. I'll take you through what we're seeing.
These are armored, armored Humvees and personnel from the D.C. National Guard getting ready to stage here. This has been really kind of a beehive of activity since my photojournalist, Andrew Smith and I have been here. We're going to take you along this fence line here.
Basically, we have been seeing agents and vehicles from every agency you can think of. The National Park Police, the U.S. Capitol Police, Metropolitan Washington Police. There are more vehicles over there. Those are Metropolitan Police Officers there in the foreground, we've seen DEA agents, FBI agents all wearing protective vests and carrying weapons.
Now, one thing we can tell you about the National Guard is were told that they will not be carrying weapons on their person when they are deployed. And according to a White House official, the national guard will not be making arrests. They could conceivably have the ability to temporarily detain people. But according to a White House official, they will not be making arrests and were told they will not be carrying arms, firearms on their person, unlike some of the agents and officers from other agencies.
There's also kind of a command and control area over here where you have these temporary communications stanchions. As you see, this FBI agent getting out of his vehicle and getting ready to stage over here. Again, a lot of activity here.
This, we're told, is going to be the most significant, or at least the National Guard presence, we're told, Kate, is going to be significantly larger starting tonight. And I believe, as you mentioned, they're adopting a 24/7 operational stance from here on. They had 43 arrests last night. They have now surpassed more than 100 arrests since this operation began on Thursday night.
And again, the operation is only growing. I think you mentioned the president wanting to now extend it past the 30-day mark. He needs a congressional bill for that. But again, in the meantime, you're going to see a lot of deployment, significantly larger deployment starting tonight, Kate.
BOLDUAN: Yeah, Brian, it's great to have you and Andrew Smith out there tonight. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
OUTFRONT with us now, David Axelrod, CNN chief political analyst, and Bill Kristol, editor at large of "The Bulwark".
Guys, thanks for being here,
David, so while Brian was talking about the number of arrests and clearly a growing presence, the numbers show that arrests kind of -- when you look at the average over time, are stagnant, at least now, right?
[19:35:11]
We don't -- we can't say what tomorrow or next week will bring. But D.C. is averaging about 70 arrests per day over the last week, which is the same average since the start of the year.
So, how -- how serious do you think this is? I keep getting a read from like -- it's serious that he's doing it or its complete show. I -- where are you on this?
DAVID AXELROD, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, look, I mean, I don't know, I don't think we know exactly what they are doing. And so, you have to conclude that there is an element of a show here.
You know, the president has this habit, whether he's bragging about his own accomplishments or, setting up situations like this to be incredibly hyperbolic. And so, you know, that I think is part of this story, just to -- Washington, D.C. has problems just like every other city with crime, with homelessness. But the numbers, as we've all talked about, have been coming down. And to depict it as a dystopia, as he does, and to say in the
proclamation that crime is rising when it's not, you know, raises a whole lot of questions about what exactly is he doing? And, and why?
BOLDUAN: And what's the measure of progress, then? Honestly.
Bill, the president is quickly also going after those who are criticizing his move and those who have said that this this just smacks of an authoritarian push. Here he is. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Fighting crime is a good thing. We have to explain. We're going to fight crime. That's a good thing.
Already, they're saying he's a dictator. The place is going to hell and we've got to stop it. So instead of saying he's a dictator, they should say we're going to join him and make Washington safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Bill, how concerned are you that this is just the beginning?
BILL KRISTOL, EDITOR AT LARGE, THE BULWARK: Well, Trump has said it's the beginning. He said he might have to do this in Chicago and Los Angeles and Baltimore. So, so much for the special status of Washington. Washington is an easier place for him to do it because it's the federal city. It doesn't have a state. It's not part of a state. There's no governor to go through.
But clearly, he wants to extend the 30 days, right? Its not as if he did a study of crime in D.C. and decided, we need this number of additional troops. They're well-trained, additional law enforcement people who are trained for this kind of patrolling.
He wants to establish the principle that he gets to send federal agents into cities when he wants to. He did it in L.A. Now he's doing it here without any serious factual showing of why it might be necessary, why it's an emergency.
He wants to establish the principle. Now in D.C. this is where this gets, I think, much more ominous. He can take over the local police force, and he's not limiting that to D.C. so I think it's -- it is a show, of course, but the show is itself very serious. And the key is he wants this to be normalized.
Brian, that was a good report that Brian gave. But he wants that report. He wants us to get used to it. Gee, what are all the federal agents doing today? I don't' know if crime takes down 3 percent. If they're an additional 20 arrests over the next week in Washington, maybe we should do it in some other cities.
And suddenly, Donald Trump, you put this together with ICE and everything else has vastly expanded personal law enforcement authority in potentially major parts of the United States. BOLDUAN: This actually gets at something I've been thinking about
today, because I spoke earlier today with the mayor of Kansas City, Missouri, Quinton Lucas, and his take is that president Trump, targeting major cities led by Democrats is a win-win, no matter what he does next.
Let me play this for you, David.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR QUINTON LUCAS (D), KANSAS CITY, MISSOURI: This is one of the best fights to pick because what I have to sit in front of you and say is, yes, there are homicides in my city. Yes, there is crime but we don't think the same prescription of help is necessary. It's a tough position, but I think, frankly, this is the situation we're in and he's not really interested in trying to save lives for us, but just exploiting the political issue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: What do you think of that?
AXELROD: I think that there is an element of baiting a trap here for Democrats. He wants to create a situation where he describes a crime in the city as a, you know, an outrageous emergency and then have and then have --
(CROSSTALK)
BOLDUAN: But the mayor says we do have crime issues that we are working on, you know, like --
AXELROD: Of course, of course. But he wants -- I mean, the reason I think, you know, he wants to extend this and get a vote in Congress is to try and get Democrats to vote against this. And then he can argue that they are anti-crime.
So, you know, I think there -- there is a lot to it. Listen, it'll be interesting to see. I mean, we saw in L.A. the presence of the Marines, and the presence of the National Guard, and it still isn't clear exactly what they were doing. Let's see what happens here and see if he actually produces something.
[19:40:02]
But as Bill said, there's another issue here, which is the militarization of law enforcement using military -- the way he's using it. And that's going to make a lot of people nervous.
BOLDUAN: Bill, on David's point, do you think that Democrats are taking Trump's bait if he's setting a trap?
KRISTOL: No, no. Democrats need to stop being such nervous nellies. If they can't explain to the American people that for 200 years in this country, we have resisted for very good reasons the federalization, the presidential control over local law enforcement, if they -- if they -- if that makes them very nervous, tough.
It's really important to kind of defend civil liberties in this country. It's important to prevent an all-powerful president from having personal command of law enforcement internally in this country, for all kinds of reasons. There are obvious things that Trump has talked about wanting to use law enforcement for.
So, I think Democrats need to toughen up, denounce this correctly. This is a pretext. Donald Trump does not care about crime in Washington, D.C., can we just be honest?
Does any actual grown up person think Donald Trump is really terribly concerned about what's going on in the streets of Washington, D.C.? It's a pretext. It's part of his authoritarian agenda.
BOLDUAN: David, Bill, it's good to see you both. Thank you very much. OUTFRONT for us next, ICE detainee flights operating in secret, detainees disappearing their flights impossible to trace. But we found a way to track one. What we uncovered is next.
In just an hour into Taylor Swift's podcast tonight with Travis Kelce, it's already smashing records, even outpacing Trump's first hour numbers with Joe Rogan.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:46:16]
BOLDUAN: Tonight, a judge is just now ordering ICE to immediately improve the conditions at a holding facility here in New York City, including limiting capacity, cleaning cells three times a day, and giving out sleeping mats. The ruling comes after detainees were complaining about dirty conditions and cell phone video showed about two dozen men crowded into one room, with only blankets.
This comes as the number of ICE deportation flights is skyrocketing and also becoming harder than ever to track.
Rene Marsh has more in a story you'll see first on OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: More than 30 migrants detainees handcuffed walk up those steps and get on board. One, two, three, four more detainees. You can tell that their hands are restrained.
(voice-over): This is one of about 6,000 ICE flights since President Donald Trump took office. We were able to find this plane here in Richmond, Virginia, but most of them are hidden from the public and operating with little transparency. Virtually every ICE flight carrying detainees blocks their tail numbers from flight tracking websites, making it nearly impossible for families and advocates to find their loved ones once they're in ICE custody.
This is one of the tail numbers that we think could possibly come here, and right now, it's in Youngstown. Oh, look, I think it's taken off because the altitude is increasing. Yeah.
We studied months of flight paths, got a tail number and made an educated guess about which flight would arrive in Richmond. Then using a crowdsourced database that monitors aircraft radio signals, we tracked the suspected flight, revealing every city and state it stopped in within 24 hours.
This is the plane we're tracking, a Boeing 737 operated by Eastern Air Express, with the tail number N668CP. It has up to 148 economy seats, a bathroom in the front and the back, but it's unclear how many people are on board this flight or any other ICE flight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tyson 51, continue on.
MARSH: Okay. Tyson 51 is this one right now. That's the call sign that they're using for this flight.
Many ICE flights go by Tyson. The same call sign used to identify Trump's personal plane after he was elected in 2016.
Here's the flight path it took on August 6 -- Ohio, New York, Pennsylvania to Louisiana, back to Ohio, then New York, picking up and dropping off detainees at every stop.
If it's actually coming to Virginia, it should be here very soon.
It's on approach. It's on approach right now.
It's altitude is like literally 50 feet. So --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, I think over there, over there. Go, go, go.
MARSH: All right. I think -- I think that might be it. This is a plane. This is a plane that we've been tracking all morning. This is it.
And we just saw like more than 30 detainees handcuffed, walk up those steps and get on board.
There's one, two, three, four more detainees. You can tell that their hands are restrained. Another, another one, another. Okay, so they're unloading another vehicle here. Multiple detainees walking up to get on board this Eastern Air Express flight.
The Trump administration has used more than 70 airports across the country for domestic shuttle flights so far, moving ICE detainees between detention centers before deportation.
In the past three months, the number of these flights spiked 90 percent compared to the same time period last year, according to an immigrant rights group.
And that trend is expected to continue after the Department of Homeland Security recently earmarked $14.4 billion for ICE flights.
[19:50:07] We know that the tail number of the flight that we've been tracking today is N6668CP, and we want to see if this public tracking site that gets its data and information from the FAA has any record of the flight. Nothing comes up.
But we were able to track the flight as it made its way back to Alexandria, Louisiana, the busiest hub for ICE deportation flights. At this point in the journey, some of the first detainees on board were possibly on this plane, handcuffed for nearly ten hours as this ICE flight completes its 24-hour trip, Louisiana is likely the last stop in the U.S. before the people on board are deported.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARSH (on camera): And, Kate, here's the reality. It really wasn't very simple to track this ICE flight. We weren't even sure we had successfully tracked it until it was actually coming in for landing at Richmond's airport. And the point is, these flights really have virtually no eyes on them. Families and advocates have no idea where their loved ones are going once they're in ICE custody.
Now, one of the airlines flying for ICE, Avelo Airlines, told CNN in an email. And I'm quoting, flights operated on behalf of the United States government are often unidentified at the government's request.
So, we reached out to the Department of Homeland Security, the agency that oversees ICE, to get more information about why these planes are hiding their tail numbers. But the agency did not respond to our request -- Kate.
BOLDUAN: Wow. It's pretty amazing to watch it all play out as you as you were working it.
Rene, thank you so much. Great reporting.
MARSH: Thank you.
BOLDUAN: OUTFRONT for us next, the Internet exploding right now, more than a million people listening to a football podcast. The numbers outpacing Trump's podcast with Joe Rogan. The reason right there -- Taylor Swift is the guest.
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[19:56:04]
BOLDUAN: Tonight, the Internet is going wild right now. Taylor Swift's appearance on her boyfriend's podcast just dropped. Sitting there with NFL star Travis Kelce and also in the podcast, his brother. And it's the first time that were seeing the very private star interacting so candidly with her boyfriend, Travis Kelce, since they started dating two years ago.
Of course, that's after Kelce professed his love for her on the very same podcast.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAYLOR SWIFT, SINGER: I'm just circling back to "New Heights" to say thank you for -- for this.
TRAVIS KELCE, NFL PLAYER: Yes.
SWIFT: Look at this.
T. KELCE: I'm the luckiest man in the world.
JASON KELCE, FORMER NFL PLAYER: How did you know he wasn't crazy? Because that's the other side of that, right? Like a guy goes up there and professes his love for you. It's either one, it's like, this could be the most romantic thing in the world. It could also be like --
(CROSSTALK)
SWIFT: He is crazy, Jason.
J. KELCE: But there's a -- there's a right crazy.
SWIFT: Yeah, he's the good kind of crazy. And I knew that he wasn't crazy the first couple of times that we talked. I was just like, he's -- he's truly like, he's truly getting to know me in a way that's very natural, very pure, very normal. Like -- also like just the way that he could make me laugh so immediately about normal things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: So this episode is already on track to become one of the most watched podcasts of all time. More than 1.3 million people watching live right now on YouTube, just about an hour since it started.
And for comparison, our Harry Enten points out that Donald Trump's podcast with Joe Rogan got 800,000 views in the first hour. When you think about it, it is pretty remarkable.
Part of what -- part of what she is doing is also announcing her new album, which will be also dropping, which is why, you know, a lot of Swifties are listening to that.
Oh, I'm told we now have we have another, we have another piece from this episode that I want you to listen to. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SWIFT: I get a call from my mom and she's like, she's like, they -- we got your music.
T. KELCE: Yeah.
SWIFT: And so sorry that this is -- it's literally been so long since this happened. Like, it's every time I talk about it, she was like, you got you got your music and I just, like, very dramatically hit the floor for real. Like, honestly, just started -- T. KELCE: It's been a long time coming.
SWIFT: -- bawling my eyes out, and I knock on the door. He's playing video games, and I'm trying to say it in a normal way, and I'm just like, Travis.
T. KELCE: Oh, no. What just happened? What just happened?
SWIFT: And he's like, he like, puts his headset down. He's like, guys, got to go. And I think he thought something was wrong. And you come up and I'm just like, I can't hold my music back.
And then just start absolutely heaving.
T. KELCE: Just deadweight. Just deadweight. Losing all control.
SWIFT: Had no power in my legs to support myself. And, yeah, this changed my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Talking about acquiring -- acquiring her masters -- recordings once again.
Elizabeth Wagmeister is here with us now, battling, of course, some sirens in the background, but we will power through. This has been going on and this is breaking records, Elizabeth, this podcast.
ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: This is, Kate. So over 1 million viewers tuning in just on YouTube live. And you know, that's just one of the platforms. So this is absolutely going to break all sorts of records.
But aside from Taylor getting very emotional, as you saw there, talking about her ownership of her music, she also has revealed some big details with her album. Her 12th album is going to be coming out on October 3rd. She also revealed that she is going to have a single with Sabrina Carpenter, who is one of the biggest Gen Z musicians out there, and this is going to be a pop album.
So, we have heard country music from Taylor. We've heard more somber, angsty music, and now she's getting back to her pop roots.
And look, Kate, for anyone who may not care so much about this, this is one of the most important couples in the world. Biggest football player, biggest star in the world. So, a huge cultural force right here.
BOLDUAN: Huge cultural force. And they're still talking. So there's much more to come.
Elizabeth, thank you very much. I really appreciate it.
Thanks for joining us, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan.
"AC360" starts now.
