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Erin Burnett Outfront

Epstein Survivors To Trump: "This Is Not A Hoax" And "Not Political"; Trump Appeals Ruling That Use Of National Guard In L.A. Was Illegal; Trump: Xi, Putin And Kim "Were Hoping I Was Watching -- And I Was"; 1,000+ Health Workers To RFK Jr.: It's Time To Resign. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired September 03, 2025 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:20]

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:

The breaking news of a hoax. Trump lashing out over calls to release the Epstein files, calling the investigation a hoax. The family of Virginia Giuffre, an Epstein survivor, is OUTFRONT.

And Senator Adam Schiff on the president's legal battle over deploying the National Guard to American cities like L.A., D.C., and Chicago, and being the target of a Trump DOJ investigation. Is this all politics?

And he was once the richest man in all of Russia until he took on Putin. Tonight, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, who spent a decade in prison because of Putin, speaks out on the Putin hot mic moment. What the Russian president really thinks of Trump and where Putin's next invasion will be.

Let's go OUTFRONT.

And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.

OUTFRONT tonight, Trump lashing out about Epstein, calling the investigation a hoax, actually, around the exact same time that Jeffrey Epstein survivors were publicly telling their stories on Capitol Hill, pleading for transparency.

Here's President Trump today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: From what I understand, thousands of pages of documents have been given, but it's really a Democrat hoax because they're trying to get people to talk about something that's totally irrelevant to the success that we've had as a nation since I've been president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Well, maybe irrelevant to the success, as he says, but of course, relevant to the thousand or more victims, relevant to possibly the many men who are in there who were raping children. Well, not a hoax.

Jeffrey Epstein is accused of targeting, assaulting and raping underage girls. That's not a hoax. Thats something that needs to be investigated. And everyone should be pounding the table on this. This one isn't hard, and it's not complicated.

And it's why Republican Congressman Thomas Massie is leading the revolt on this against Trump as we speak, rallying Republicans to break with Trump and support Massie's movement, to force a vote -- to force a vote that would allow for releasing every single Epstein document that exists.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): I care most about the policy here, not the politics of it. But politically, it's really bad for Republicans. They should just have this vote and put it behind them. Eighty percent of Republicans. It's not just independents and Democrats who want these files released, 80 percent of Republicans support releasing these files.

So, they're at odds with our base right now, and particularly the MAGA base.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT : Massie is being practical, but he's also right there that this shouldn't be political. There's a right and a wrong. And exposing people who assault and rape children is the right side of the issue.

If Massie can get two more Republicans to join him, he can force the vote on his bill. It is a vote that Trump right now is scrambling to kill. The White House today actually calling Massie's measure, quote, a very hostile act to this administration. Unclear why they would want to make keeping secrets on Epstein being for their administration, but there you have it.

And while Trump sees the Epstein survivors today had a message for the president, who continues to call what happened to them a hoax.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HALEY ROBSON, JEFFREY EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: Mr. President Donald J. Trump. I am a registered Republican. Not that that matters, because this is not political. However, I cordially invite you to the Capitol to meet me in person so you can understand this is not a hoax. We are real human beings. This is real trauma.

MARINA LACERDA, JEFFREY EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: We are tired of looking at the news and seeing Jeffrey Epstein's name and saying that this is a hoax. We are tired of it.

CHAUNTAE DAVIES, JEFFREY EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: The truth is, Epstein had a free pass. He bragged about his powerful friends, including our current president, Donald Trump. It was his biggest brag, actually.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Trump's name was invoked multiple times during those emotional moments today at the Capitol. Epstein's victims recounting the horrors also that they endured.

The brother of Virginia Roberts Giuffre, who was one of the most vocal Epstein accusers, who really opened the door for so many before taking her life, joined the women in calling for Congress to stop slow- walking the release of the Epstein files.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SKY ROBERTS, VIRGINIA GIUFFRE'S BROTHER: I plead to you, whether you're a dad, a mom, a brother or a sister -- look your young ones in the face, look them in the eye and tell them you didn't stand against the very people who raped, molested, and preyed upon children and young women.

[19:05:03]

If you vote no, your stance will be clear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: In a moment, we're going to be speaking to Virginia Giuffre's family, including her brother Sky, who you just heard there. It is important, of course, to note that Trump has not been accused of wrongdoing.

Manu Raju is OUTFRONT live on Capitol Hill to begin our coverage.

So, Manu, you know, there's very little that is bipartisan on Capitol Hill. Congressman Massie really has gone out on a limb really, frankly, putting his entire career on the line to be on the side of transparency when it comes for the Epstein files. What is the latest, as you understand it, on the bipartisan push to release the files and whether it will be successful?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's still in the same place that it was before this news conference, when Massie had four Republicans, including himself, signing on to this effort to force a vote on the full house to compel the release of these documents, meaning he still needs two Republicans. That was the case this morning. That is the case right now, and there are roughly a dozen or so Republicans who actually do support his bill, but are not supporting yet this parliamentary maneuver to circumvent the Republican leadership and put this bill on the floor.

That is a rarely successful maneuver that is often employed or attempted by the rank and file. But this time, Massie is so close. But can he get there?

One big reason why they're having a hard time is this pressure campaign from the White House. Republican leaders urging Republicans not to sign on to this Massie effort. I caught up with one of the Republicans who did sign on to this

effort. That is Marjorie Taylor Greene, a MAGA Republican herself, someone who was at that news conference today. And I asked her about the contention from a White House official that signing on to this effort is a, quote, "hostile act".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): This isn't a hostile act towards the administration. The hostile act has been against these women for so many years now, for in -- the hostile act of covering up for Jeffrey Epstein and everyone else that's been involved in this. And that's the real hostile act.

I look forward to talking with President Trump about -- about these women that I've met. I also encouraged him already this morning that he should have these women in the Oval Office. They deserve to be there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: But still, the speaker of the House is very clear that he does not want to move forward on this effort. In fact, after this news conference, he told reporters, I quote, I think they have been misled. He also said that they that their House is moving forward on the investigative front. He pointed to the House Oversight Committee's ongoing investigation, contended that that would be more successful than Thomas Massie's bill, which he said has some flaws to it.

So, you can see there the challenges that Massie still has to move ahead on this effort -- Erin.

BURNETT: All right, Manu, thank you very much.

And as promised, now I want to go OUTFRONT to Sky and Amanda Roberts, Virginia Giuffre's brother and sister in law.

I appreciate you both so much to talk to you again.

Sky, we saw you there speaking outside the Capitol and urging, pounding the table to lawmakers to do the right thing and release all of the Epstein files. And right now, as we sit here tonight, Sky, talking to you and me and Amanda, there are only two more Republicans needed for this to succeed, for this to move forward.

Do you believe that members of Congress heard you today?

S. ROBERTS: I hope so. I think -- you know, you -- we were very clear during that -- you know, during that press conference and during the rally as well, that, you know, it's very clear that if you decide not to, then essentially you've already made your decision. We know what side you stand on.

And so, you know, we're very hopeful that it that they do come forward and they do the right thing. But at the end of the day, they need to do what they need to do. And then the survivors and were going to have to do what we need to do.

And so, I think this was really one of those stances where it's a call to action. It's -- we're tired of just hearing words and fancy words like transparency and accountability. Those aren't just words. They're actions, right?

So, I think we have yet to see full action on this. And it's important that moving forward, that we do see those things. So, this is a very important moment for them. It's a very important moment for survivors and a very important moment for history. And I really employ them that like this is a moment where your voters are watching you, where the American people are watching you. And this will define your careers on which side you stand on.

BURNETT: Yeah. I mean, there's a moral answer to this, Amanda, which is -- which is why, in a certain sense, you say, gosh, this should be easy.

[19:10:03]

Put it all out there. Not 1 percent of it as they did, of which almost all of it had already been out before. Put it all out there. Get through the legal fight on the redactions so people can get to the truth.

But that's not what the White House wants. And I want to play more for you, because literally, as you were at the press conference today -- so I know you've heard it now. At this point, Amanda, but earlier, you were standing there talking. The president moments later said this, I want to play it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: This is a Democrat hoax that never ends. Really? I think it's enough because I think we should talk about the greatness of our country and the success that we're having. We're having the most successful eight months of any president ever. And that's what I want to talk about. That's what we should be talking about, not the Epstein hoax.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: I mean, that was 45 minutes. Amanda, just to be clear, after you and Sky and other survivors were there, I just want to give you a chance to respond.

I mean, he's -- obviously, the word hoax. That is -- that is the word. That is what he is saying.

AMANDA ROBERTS, VIRGINIA GIUFFRE'S SISTER-IN-LAW: Yeah. I -- it's beyond frustrating. I mean, 45 minutes ago, you've heard from every survivor saying this isn't a hoax. The American people know that this isn't a hoax.

And so, I think we're all tired of, like, the distractions, the switch and bait. I think we're over that part. And there's just this desire that, like, this is an ugly stain that maybe he just wants to disappear and go away, but it's not going to. It's not going to go away.

And I think there's a certain point, especially as the leader of our nation, to sit back, take a moment of reflection and understand that this is huge. This is relevant. This is real.

We are talking about human lives. They were children and they are asking for the justice that they deserve. And they are asking that of their leader, of their nation.

BURNETT: Sky, you know your sister in some ways, many ways, right? Paid for, you know, the ultimate price for what happened to her and for speaking out and all of the bravery that she did in that.

And today, a White House official, you know, Trump made the point about hoax, but then told CNN, so this is a White House official to CNN said anybody who signs the Republican, Thomas Massie petition, right? His petition would force a vote on the full release of all the files, right? That any Republican who backs that, any lawmaker, in fact, who backs it. And here's the quote, Sky, would be viewed as a very hostile act to the administration.

What do you think about that? I guess on two levels I'm asking you, this guy. One, that they're calling it a hostile act, and two, that they're adding that level to this administration, that it somehow personal to this administration.

S. ROBERTS: Who are we here to protect? Are we here to protect monsters? Are we here to protect men that preyed on children and young women at the time? Is that who we're here to protect?

And I want them to answer that question because at the end of the day, they have to look themselves in the mirror and tell themselves why. But more importantly, they have to look at their children and their grandchildren in the eye and tell them why.

Why would you stand against this? What are we asking for here? Break it down to the most fundamental level. This is a human issue. This is not political.

And you know, yes, you know what? Let's call it political. That's fine. This is not a party issue then, right?

BURNETT: Right.

S. ROBERTS: There's politics involved, but it's not a party issue. We're not telling you to vote left, and we're not telling you to vote right. We're telling you to do the right thing. And I think that's why the American people, that's why we come across so genuine and what we're asking for, because it's at the most simple level.

It's literally the right thing to do. And I implore you, the American people -- I employ the government to go home and get on Facetime or go right in front of their faces and look your children in the eye and look your grandchildren in the eye and say, would I not fight for you for this? Is this not the right thing to do? Would I sign no to this?

Because if you do that, then you have to live with that. I don't have to live with that. I'm on the right side of this. The survivors are on the right side of this, and it's not their responsibility to have to come out with these names. It is their responsibility. It's the government's responsibility to protect the people.

BURNETT: It is. Well, well, it is. And as you point out, it's not -- well, it's not something that should be political. It's what Thomas Massie said, right?

[19:15:00]

I mean, this isn't something it has been made political. If you're going to say it's a hostile act to this administration. But, of course, it shouldn't be. The administration be for transparency.

Amanda, Marjorie Taylor Greene, who obviously, you know, supports Trump on, on most all the things that he pushes through Congress, right, on this has said no. She obviously signed on for Thomas Massie. She wants transparency.

And you know, she said something there. I don't know if you could hear it as we were getting ready to come to you, but Manu was playing her saying, okay, I talked to Trump this morning and I encouraged him to meet with you all, to meet with you and the others who went out bravely today to meet with survivors in the Oval Office. Do you want to meet with him, Amanda?

A. ROBERTS: I think there's a twofold to this situation. I think it's very powerful when you actually sit in a room and you hear testimony from family of survivors and survivors themselves, it's very powerful and it's moving, and it can change you. But I also don't want to create a position of, well, let's meet and then nothing happens.

BURNETT: Yeah.

A. ROBERTS: Don't meet with the intent of not doing anything about it. Don't have us in the room. Don't have us -- relive experiences that our sister went through. Relive experiences that survivors went through. Put ourselves vulnerable out there and then you still don't plan to do anything about it.

So, it's a two-fold thing. I think survivors are willing to come to the table, but not if there isn't going to be actual change and action happening after the fact.

BURNETT: And, Sky, you know, at that press conference today, you know, when you talk about action, action that could have saved your sister's life, right? Things could have happened a long time ago that could have changed the course of history in your life for your sister, her children, your family.

And today, so many survivors came forward to talk about your sister, to talk about her as the reason they were there. And, you know, she doesn't know this, right? She died four months ago. She was only 41 years old. And you had to suffer that tragedy.

And they're saying they came forward, so many of them that they have the courage to come out now because of her, because of what she did. And I know you heard it today. And it may be hard to hear it again, but I just want to play what some of them said about her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNIE FARMER, JEFFREY EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: Virginia Giuffre's heroism, speaking her truth, her humility, her bravery and love ended my 14 years of fear and silence. She is the heart of this fight.

JESS MICHAELS, JEFFREY EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: For Virginia, whose courage lit the path and open the door for us to walk through.

HALEY ROBSON, JEFFREY EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: I can feel their spirit, especially Virginia's today. She would be so proud, and she would be so beside herself to see this one moment we have all came together to unite.

MARINA LACERDA, JEFFREY EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: While she may not be with us, Virginia Roberts, we will continue to use our voices to strengthen yours always.

BRAD EDWARDS, ATTORNEY FOR JEFFREY EPSTEIN SURVIVORS: Virginia Roberts Giuffre is an American hero. She is somebody -- she is somebody without whom we would not be able to have this voice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Sky, just you get a chance to catch her breath. What is it like to hear that about your sister?

S. ROBERTS: We are so proud of her. I'm so proud to call her my sister. My friend. And I am so proud of her survivor sisters. And I know she would be so proud of them today. I can feel her through them.

I looked them in the eye and I can see her and the power that she had, they have, and they rose to the occasion today they said enough is enough. We're saying enough is enough. And it's about time the world listens to these strong women. And my sister was just so eloquent and how she did it. But she was fierce, and she would not back down, and she was not afraid to speak the names.

And I can tell you, we're at that point. We're at the point where you are forcing these women forward, because now they are moms, now they have children, now they know what is right and what is wrong. And so, I am just honored. I am so honored to stand by these brave survivors. I'm honored to be in their presence, and I can feel their power through my sister because they are her.

They went through the same experiences, and they are so strong to come forward and speak their truth.

[19:20:07] And I said it during one of and I'll end with this, this part of it is that we see them and we believe them. And it's time the world listens to them, and it's time that our political system, our justice system, our congressmen and women that we voted into power, listen to them and put these men away, put these monsters away for life.

And let's not forget the narrative, and I'm going to bring it up, put Ghislaine back in a maximum-security prison. Demand -- we're demanding justice at this point, and it's unfortunate that we even have to go there to do it. But we are. So, we hope we do -- they do something about it.

BURNETT: Ghislaine Maxwell, of course, in that minimum security prison as we speak, after her interview with the DOJ -- grateful to both of you and thank you so much after obviously such an emotional -- emotionally draining and exhausting day for speaking out.

Thank you, Sky and Amanda.

A. ROBERTS: Thank you.

S. ROBERTS: Thank you.

BURNETT: And next, President Trump getting personal in his back and forth with the California Governor Gavin Newsom. Tell you exactly what's happening. A new response this hour.

And Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping were caught in a hot mic talking about immortality and how they could age younger and younger, as if that was real. A man who was once the richest man in Russia until Putin put him in prison for a decade, knows Putin very well, weighs in.

And the death toll rising after a horrific accident at a popular tourist attraction.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:26:04]

BURNETT: Tonight, Trump versus Newsom round -- well, we're not really sure at this point, a lot. Today, President Trump was asked whether he would launch an investigation against the California governor for deaths from the Palisades Fire earlier this year.

And Trump took the opportunity to take on Newsom and his hands.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: This is a very incompetent guy. I watched him with the hands. I'm saying, what's going on with the hands? There's something wrong with -- there's something wrong with them. Do you watch him? There's something wrong with this guy.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: Newsom responding as has become his custom on social media with this post. Quote, "We talking hands?" followed by the video of Trump's hands.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

BURNETT: And this is not Trump's only battle with Newsom tonight, because Trump is now appealing a federal judge's ruling that found his deployment of National Guard troops and Marines to Los Angeles was illegal.

OUTFRONT now, Senator Adam Schiff from the state of California.

And, Senator, I really appreciate your time. So, this is the second time that this judge has ruled against Trump on the issue of troop deployment to Los Angeles.

The first time, though, when this judge ruled against him, a California appeals court, you know, when it went and took Trump's side. And so, this new ruling will likely be appealed. Trump could win again. So, when it when push comes to shove and this is now happening in other Democratic cities across the country, Senator, is there any way to stop Trump from deploying troops to Chicago to other cities, as he did in L.A. and Washington?

SEN. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): I think litigation is really the only way to stop it. And I think that this case, this new ruling by the judge, is more likely to be upheld. And I say that because the judge did a multi-day factual hearing to determine, were these military forces being used for law enforcement? And they were. That is now the factual record. And it is plainly unlawful to use the military for domestic law enforcement.

And I think the judge was exactly right in declaring the president's intention, which is to establish some kind of a national police force with him as the chief. So legal recourse is really the only recourse until my Republican colleagues in the Senate decide they're going to stand up to the lawlessness of this president. Sadly, we see no evidence of that. They seem quite content to let the president break law after law. So, the courts are only recourse. And I think this has much greater chance of being upheld.

BURNETT: All right. So, Trump, he has referred to himself as the chief law enforcement officer of the country, right? As opposed to commander in chief, right? A nuance that matters. But he says, senator, as you know, he says this is about combating crime. And he says its working in Washington, D.C., where, of course, you are tonight.

So, when you look at the numbers there, though, this is according to Washington, D.C.'s official database last week. I know you're familiar with these numbers, but here they are. At 44 percent decrease in violent crime in the three weeks since the federal surge, right, compared to the same period a year ago, that includes a 44 percent drop in homicides compared to the same time last year.

So, I mean, if that is the outcome of what he's doing. Is that something to actually celebrate?

SCHIFF: Well, I don't think I can analyze what D.C.'s crime numbers were, but I can say this about Los Angeles and the deployment of troops there. First of all, it was completely unnecessary. We didn't need the National Guard, thousands of National Guard troops activated for this purpose, something that, frankly, takes them away from doing work, fighting fires, doing the work that our military is called upon to do as a military force, not as a civilian force to deploy Marines to Los Angeles for that purpose, was also another waste of military resources.

[19:30:10]

And what's more, it squanders the goodwill of the National Guard in California. We love the National Guard. We value them for their heroic efforts during times of natural disaster.

But this really polarizes the public with respect to the guard and for the guard itself. Weve seen a collapse of morale. As you know, guard troops say, I didn't sign up with ICE. I signed up to serve my country as a member of the military.

BURNETT: Yeah.

SCHIFF: So, I can't speak to D.C., but I can't speak to California. And this was a terrible abuse and a lawless abuse of the military.

BURNETT: I have to say, having been there during the fires and on the ground during the protests in L.A., it was something to see the National Guard in both situations, right, and deployed in such different ways. But, you know, patriots who are there to help their country. And it was so visible in the fires, you know, as they were sleeping on the ground amidst the fires to help people.

Senator, you've been a vocal critic of President Trump. And in turn, obviously that has resulted in a lot of accusations against you by him. He's accused you of treason. Now he's accusing you of mortgage fraud.

And because mortgage fraud is so much in the news, he's accusing a fed governor of it as well. I wanted to give you a chance to address the accusations. And I guess it boils down to this -- as a sitting senator, you split your time between your home state, California and Washington, D.C. That's what senators do.

A review of mortgage records that we did here at CNN show that for more than a decade, you claimed your Washington home as your primary residence. And at the same time, over that period, you took a homeowner's tax exemption on a condo in California, which was also listed as a primary residence.

Obviously, you can get into the granular details on this. I guess it boils down to this, Senator, were you at any point getting a primary residence, tax or mortgage benefits, right? Benefiting on a tax basis for both homes at the same time? BURNETT: First of all, Erin, I think it's important to put this in

context. This is not about my mortgage or Lisa Cook's mortgage or Letitia James, the attorney general of New York's mortgage. This is about political payback and political attacks. In the case of Lisa Cook, he couldn't get the interest rates lowered, so he threatened her with investigation. In my case, he's threatening me with investigation because I led his first impeachment and served on the January 6th committee.

In terms of my own mortgage situation, I was completely transparent with my lenders. That's what's required. In fact, I even talked to the mortgage company lawyer that approved the application that they're contesting.

So, there's no "there" there. The only purpose of this is to try to smear and attack his opponents. I was interested when you led with Trump threatening. Now our governor with investigation. This is what Trump is doing essentially using the DOJ now as just a tool of his for political retribution against his enemies.

BURNETT: Senator Schiff, I'm really grateful for your time. Thank you.

SCHIFF: Thank you.

BURNETT: All right. Senator Schiff of California.

And next, Kim Jong Un's aide seen wiping away any trace of the North Korean leaders presence in a room. You know, any kind of a hair follicle, a piece of dandruff. I mean, an unbelievable cleaning after his meeting with Vladimir Putin. How come?

And the pressure building for RFK Jr. to step down? Over 1,000 workers from Kennedy's own agency claiming that he's putting the nation's health at serious risk.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:37:31]

BURNETT: Tonight, President Trump acknowledging that he tuned in for China's massive military parade with Putin and Kim Jong Un applauding in the crowd.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I thought it was very, very impressive, but I understood the reason they were doing it, and they were hoping I was watching and I was watching.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: And that may be exactly what Putin and Kim wanted. And a crucial audience member, the two of them appearing side by side, sharing a ride in a limousine to a 2-1/2-hour closed meeting, even embracing afterwards. Ivan Watson is OUTFRONT in Beijing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A massive show of force in Beijing, choreographed to symbolize a new world order.

At its center, two of Americas fiercest adversaries, in a public display of unity, Russia's Vladimir Putin and North Korea's Kim Jong Un, all smiles and warm handshakes. Meeting on the sidelines of victory day celebrations.

The Russian leader thanks Kim for his country's support with Moscow's war against Ukraine.

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I would like to note that we will never forget the sacrifices that your armed forces and the families of your servicemen have suffered. On behalf of the Russian people, I would like to thank you for your participation in the joint fight against neo-Nazism.

WATSON: Kim, for his part, signals that the cooperation will continue. Hopes for Ukraine peace talks led by President Trump seem to flounder.

KIM JONG UN, NORTH KOREAN LEADER (through translator): If there is any way we can assist Russia, we will certainly do it as a fraternal duty. We will spare no effort in providing help to Russia.

WATSON: A ride in Putin's limo, another sign of their growing partnership, and a message to Trump that this military alliance is stronger than ever. Following a 2-1/2-hour meeting, amid the smiles and hugs, Putin invites Kim to visit him in Russia. After all, North Koreans have fought and died for Putin.

Western officials estimate a third of the 12,000 troops believed to be a part of North Korea's initial deployment to fight Ukraine, have been killed or wounded, many of them fighting in Russia's Kursk region. It's a price Kim Jong Un seems willing to pay, as he enjoys new prominence on the world stage.

While Kim has worked to further North Korea's powerful alliances here in Beijing, a girl believed to be his daughter, Kim Ju-ae, was spotted by his side as he arrived.

[19:40:07]

The first public trip abroad for this mysterious young woman. We know little about her presence, fueling speculation she could one day become successor to her father's throne.

This was only the 11th time the North Korean leader has left his country since he assumed power in 2011. Known for paranoia around security, his team was caught on camera by a Kremlin pool reporter, carefully wiping away any traces of Kim Jong Un's presence after his meeting with Putin on Wednesday.

It's not clear why staff would clean the meeting room, but some genetics experts have suggested DNA can be used to collect valuable information about the health of world leaders. A glimpse, perhaps, of underlying anxieties still playing out beneath the show of strongman camaraderie.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATSON (on camera): Erin, I want to highlight the important message that the host country here, Xi Jinping, was sending in this day of remarkable events when all of these leaders were marching together down a red carpet, Xi Jinping had Vladimir Putin on his right side and Kim Jong Un, the North Korean leader, on his left.

He put him in front of leaders of other countries like Indonesia, Iran Belarus. And that is sending a very, very important signal that the leader of a country that has been long viewed as a pariah is one of the most important, trusted partners of China, which has the world's second largest economy -- Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Ivan, incredible. Thank you so much.

And OUTFRONT now, Mikhail Khodorkovsky. He was once the richest man in Russia. Then he took Putin on leading the political opposition. He ended up in prison for ten years and now lives in exile. And, Mikhail, I so much appreciate your time tonight. You saw Putin and Kim Jong Un highlighting their alliance, hugging after a 2-1/2-hour meeting, Putin inviting Kim to Moscow.

How much does Vladimir Putin actually need Kim right now?

MIKHAIL KHODORKOVSKY, EXILED RUSSIAN OPPOSITION LEADER IMPRISONED BY PUTIN (through translator): Kim provided surprisingly significant support to Putin in his war. In terms of weaponry, Korea delivered a significant part of the weaponry used by Putin in the war. But as for the soldiers sent by the North Korean dictator, this is obviously much more of a moot point.

BURNETT: So Putin and Xi are both 72 years old, it turns out, Mikhail, and they at least have no apparent successor either one of them. So, this moment today really was fascinating. They were caught on tape. They were talking to each other. It wasn't supposed to be broadcast, but it was.

And they were talking about biotechnology and the possibility of essentially living forever, maybe even becoming immortal.

Let me play it for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

XI JINPING, CHINESE LEADER (translated): In the past, we used to say that very rarely people lived past 70, but these days, at 70 years (you are) still a child. PUTIN (translated): Those who are 75, 65, they have better in a few

years, with the development of biotechnology, human organs can be constantly transplanted so that people can live younger and younger, and even become immortal.

XI: The prediction is that in this century, humans may live to 150 years old.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Putin used the word "immortal". The people can live younger and younger, essentially turn back time and live to be immortal. It seems to be, Mikhail, a fascinating insight into his mind.

KHODORKOVSKY: I would be delighted if Putin carried out biotechnical experiments on himself like that. We might see a regime change in Russia, but unfortunately, he is no fool, and indeed his daughter Maria Vorontsova is a serious endocrinologist who is actually researching these kind of questions. So she will have given him the necessary consultations.

My only hope is with another scientist who is seriously researching this kind of thing, and he is Mikhail Kovalchuk from the Kurchatov Center, a complete and utter charlatan. So maybe he will try it out on Putin. But I fear that this conversation essentially was a joke between two aged dictators.

BURNETT: Aging dictators, as you call them. President Trump today, Mikhail, said that if Putin continues the war in Ukraine, that the U.S. would be unhappy and things would happen. Now, of course, President Trump has said things like this before and nothing has happened.

[19:40:05]

So where are we at this point? Does Putin take Trump's warnings seriously, or does he believe Trump is weak?

KHODORKOVSKY: Putin thinks Trump is weak and that he can get a better deal for himself with Trump. But to my mind, Putin understands that he can only really get a better deal with Trump rather than anybody else in terms of concluding the war.

So therefore, Putin is, of course, interested in getting an agreement with Trump and is afraid of quarreling with Trump.

BURNETT: So when you recently predicted, Mikhail, that the war in Ukraine would end sometime over the next year, you also added something so crucial in this context, you said that Putin would launch another war within the next two or three years, and in part because of the domestic problems that Russia now faces. But the big question right now is where? What country do you think Putin will target?

KHODORKOVSKY: I think that its most likely that unless Ukraine defends itself very substantially in this lull in the combat that the next country could be Moldova or the Baltic countries. BURNETT: And finally, Mikhail, I am curious when Putin has now

offered. Of course, he'll talk to Zelenskyy. If Zelenskyy comes to Moscow, something it certainly seems to be intended as a nonstarter, given what Putin has tried to do. You were put in jail for ten years. Alexei Navalny is dead.

Why do you think or how do you think Volodymyr Zelenskyy is still alive?

KHODORKOVSKY: I think that certainly Putin personally really dislikes Zelenskyy, but Zelenskyy is not his main objective. His main objective is, of course, Ukraine and what he really wants to do is to weaken Ukraine. And that's perfectly possible if there -- if there are internal political rifts in Zelenskyy's camp. And that's something that Putin would like to play along with.

BURNETT: Thank you so much, Mikhail. We appreciate your time tonight. Thank you for being with us.

KHODORKOVSKY: Thank you very much.

BURNETT: And next, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, subjected to bursts of intense heat, yet he felt no pain. How is this possible? He will tell you next.

Plus, a deadly accident at one of the world's most popular tourist attractions. We're just finding out the extent of what happened here.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:52:02]

BURNETT: Tonight, growing calls for Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. to step down, now from over 1,000 current and former employees of his own agency. The employees, writing in part, quote, "Under Secretary Kennedy's leadership, HHS policies are placing the health of all Americans at risk. We demand Secretary Kennedy's resignation."

And Kennedy's troubles for now do not end there. Hours from now, he will also testify before a key Senate committee.

And OUTFRONT now is our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, the author of the new book, "It Doesn't Have to Hurt: Your Smart Guide to a Pain Free Life".

So, Sanjay, just, you know, on the subject of Secretary Kennedy, because what we're seeing at the CDC and HHS, it seems so unprecedented. When you see what's happening in the chaos and the firings and a thousand people writing a letter like this, have you ever seen anything like it?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: No, not -- not really. I mean, this is a big deal. Maybe not that surprising because I think even around the time of his nomination, there were a lot of concerns from the medical establishment sort of saying, look, we know his record on things like vaccines, but I think people have been sort of cautiously optimistic. He said all the right things during his confirmation hearing in terms of vaccines.

BURNETT: And then there was the health of the food, right? And people could get behind that.

GUPTA: Yes. And I mean, I think that's always been the challenge because I think people fundamentally agree with this idea that we should be healthier. We're not a very healthy nation, but how to sort of reconcile that with all these other things that have happened.

Just to give you some context, other health secretaries have resigned. Remember, Tom Price resigned --

BURNETT: Right.

GUPTA: -- from the Trump administration over private jets. Kathleen Sebelius resigned over a flawed rollout of Obamacare.

So, this is not without precedent. But what you mentioned about the thousand-person letter, that is unusual and what they're really focused on, I think, and what has brought it to a boiling point is what's happened at the CDC, the firing of the CDC director.

BURNETT: Monarez, yeah.

GUPTA: And then also the pulling of the emergency use authorization for COVID shots.

You know, he said he wasn't going to touch vaccines. Obviously, that has happened. So I think these things have started to, I think, boil over for a lot of employees. He runs the largest health enterprise in the world. Erin, this is almost a $2 trillion budget authorized agency.

So, it's a -- it's a huge job. And I think, you know, there's a lot of scrutiny, understandably. And we'll see what happens at these hearings tomorrow.

BURNETT: Yeah, whether -- and whether he can, whether he withstands it or not.

All right. Your book, here it is. And every one of your books. You know, I love going in the store. And I see them right on the front. You know, the picks by the staff and the bestseller. All of it, as this one will be.

You spent three years working on this one, Sanjay. And you're now convinced that it doesn't have to hurt, right? This isn't a euphemism. This is -- this is a really tangible thing. That pain is something that can be dealt with without addiction to an opioid or just being in pain because you're too scared to go on the opioid and possibly get addicted, right?

So, you've got a new documentary as well. GUPTA: Yeah.

BURNETT: And here's a clip of you when you actually are going through pain, heat stimulation and meditation. Here it is.

[19:55:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: So that first round, five powerful bursts of extreme heat on my arm. I got to say, it was pretty intense and pretty unpleasant.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So when you're ready, you can allow your eyes to close.

GUPTA: And then, Garland just talked me through some basic meditation techniques.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back to the sensation of the breath. Ready to try the heat again?

GUPTA: Yeah. Let's do it.

And then I was ready for another round of 119 degree pulses on my arm. This time I was just meditating the whole time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And just letting that sensation go.

GUPTA: And then the results he had measured my intensity and unpleasantness scores.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You went from a 7.4 in pain intensity to a 3.7 in pain intensity.

GUPTA: Wow.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you went from a 4.7 in pain unpleasantness to a 1.1 in pain unpleasantness.

GUPTA: That's incredible.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those are huge effects.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: I mean, it's incredible. I mean, can meditation really work for pain? And also, when we think about the inextricable tie often between things like pain and depression?

GUPTA: That's right.

BURNETT: Can -- can this really work?

GUPTA: I think so. I think we have anecdotally known this for a long time, but I think researchers have been saying, hey, look, we need to prove this. We need the evidence behind this. And so they've been conducting these trials for a long time. And what

they sort of landed on was the idea that meditation was about the equivalent of five milligrams of oxycontin. It has a half life, doesn't last forever. But there are people who have extreme refractory chronic pain who for the time that they are meditating, can bring those pain scores down to a zero.

Again, I want to be clear. It's not a -- it's not a cure. It's not a panacea for this. But the idea that people who never have relief from pain could bring their pain scores down that much just through meditation, I thought was really, really interesting.

All pain is in the brain. So, if you can train the brain in this way, you could potentially reduce or eliminate pain.

BURNETT: Wow. All right. Well, there's the book. Obviously, people will buy the book and they should. But also the documentary special report, that was a piece of that. "It Doesn't Have to Hurt". And that is Sunday at 9:00 for hopefully the first of many hearings of Sanjay here on CNN.

GUPTA: Thank you.

BURNETT: And next, crews racing to find survivors. There's been a tragic accident. A very popular tourist attraction, one so many Americans frequent. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: We are following breaking news out of Portugal right now. There is a death toll climbing right now. At least 15 after an accident at a very highly frequented tourist attraction.

One of the popular cable cars in Lisbon derailing. New images of the terrible accident. Snapping of one of the power cords. Officials reportedly say it was traveling up that steep hill. Cable came loose, which caused the car to crash into the side of a building. And what you're looking at there is the car on its side, surrounded by debris.

Unclear how many victims there will be in the building versus the cable car itself. We do understand tourists are among the victims.

It's known as the funicular. It first opened back in 1885. Each car carries up to 42 passengers throughout the summer, full all day, every day, has truly become one of the most popular attractions in Lisbon. A true tragedy as we wait for that full toll.

Thanks so much for being with us.

Anderson starts now.