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Erin Burnett Outfront
Charlie Kirk Killed, "Person Of Interest" In Custody. Aired 7- 8p ET
Aired September 10, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:31]
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, we have breaking news. A person of interest in custody in the apparent assassination of Charlie Kirk, the MAGA powerhouse, pro-Trump activist and media juggernaut. He was shot dead in broad daylight today.
Officials are saying at this moment, somebody is now in custody, one person. But they are still searching for anyone with information related to the shooting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEAU MASON, COMMISSIONER, UTAH DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY: The only information we have on the suspect, the possible shooter is taken from closed circuit TV here on campus. We do have that. We're analyzing it. But it is security camera footage that you can -- you can kind of guess what the -- what the quality of that is. But we do know dressed in all dark clothing, but we don't have a much better description other than that.
REPORTER: Where did the shot came from?
MASON: The shot came from here on campus from a location, at a fair --
REPORTER: In a roof?
MASON: Potentially from a roof, yes, at a longer distance shot from a roof.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: From a roof.
Well, we'll show you here. Police and police tape were seen on the roof of a building near the shooting. You can see that yellow tape there. That building near -- near where Kirk was. There was sort of building surrounding where he was speaking at the lower level of basically a -- stairs type amphitheater. He was speaking in front of a crowd, obviously, including a lot of college students when he was shot.
Police just moments ago said that there were about 3,000 people there. Now, Kirk was going, this is the first of a tour of college campuses, and his whole method is sort of, you know, he takes questions from people who disagree. He debates them.
He was a close ally of President Trump and Trump posted on social media tonight, "The great and even legendary Charlie Kirk is dead. No one understood or had the heart of the youth in the United States of America better than Charlie. He was loved and admired by all, especially me. And now he is no longer with us. Melania and my sympathies go out to his beautiful wife, Erica, and family. Charlie, we love you."
Trump then proceeded to order U.S. flags at half staff.
Now what happened today, a horrific moment, right? I mean, everybody at some moment today had to take a pause and say, this is horrible. This has happened in this country, and this is where we are.
Let me just play for you the moments leading up to the shooting. A beautiful day, everybody's there, college students, the regular rapport and back and forth, and then the horror.
And I want to warn you, the video is disturbing. What happened at the moment was this -- Kirk was responding to a question about transgender shooters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Great.
So, do you know how many transgender Americans have been mass shooters over the last ten years?
CHARLIE KIRK, CONSERVATIVE ACTIVIST: Too many.
(APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay. There's five.
Okay. Now, five is a lot, right? I'm going to give you -- I'm going to give you some credit. Do you do you know how many mass shooters there have been in America over the last ten years?
KIRK: Counting or not counting gang violence?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Great --
(GUNSHOT)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get down, get down, get down!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: We froze the video there to not show you the exact moment, but we did continue to play the audio so you could hear suddenly turning to fear. Kirk's body went limp. He appeared to recoil backwards, seemingly shot in the neck. A single shot we understand killing Charlie Kirk. He was only 31 years old.
And then the moment he was rushed to his SUV after the shooting where they had he got to the hospital. They said he was in critical condition. There were hopes that he would survive. And then they confirmed he was dead.
This was supposed to be the beginning of a tour across the country of universities talking to college students. As I said, you can see the crowd there and Kirk, I described him as a media juggernaut, a MAGA powerhouse, and he was and he was crucial to Trump's success. Trump even credited Kirk with helping him win the entire election.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I won the young people by 37 percent. No Republican has ever won, and I won by 37 percent. And Charlie Kirk will tell you TikTok helped, but Charlie Kirk helped also.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right. Evan Perez is OUTFRONT in Washington to begin our coverage.
And, Evan, you know, we got a tweet or a post from the FBI director indicating there was a suspect in custody, but still, a lot of questions about who that is and where they were.
[19:05:07]
We understand from that presser, perhaps it was a sniper. They used that word from a rooftop. But what are you learning about this investigation?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, at this stage, again, we don't know the identity of the shooter. We don't know exactly what stage this investigation is. You did mention, obviously, the FBI Director Kash Patel, who tweeted the subject of the horrific shooting today that took the life of Charlie Kirk is now in custody.
There was a little bit of a contradiction there at the top of the press conference in Utah. But they officials there eventually corrected themselves and said that there is a person of interest who is in custody, and they're interviewing that person. They're discussing, they're trying to get more information and trying to get to the bottom of whether that person is indeed the shooter. So eventually, what the FBI director is saying will, you know, perhaps turn out to be true, depending on the investigation.
But clearly, a lot of work is still left to be done. You can see there that scene that you just pointed out on the rooftop. There is some video circulating, which appears to be what the local police, the state police were referring to, that there is a closed circuit security camera footage that appears to show somebody on that rooftop. So that's part of the reason why law enforcement is focusing on that person.
And really now, the work will begin, Erin, trying to figure out whether that person has made any threats to Charlie Kirk. We know that there was some concern for his security, which is why he had his own personal detail that was working with the local law enforcement.
And so, the other question there, of course, is the weapon, trying to determine and connect the weapon to that single shot, which is what the state police said happened. There was a single shot that was fired from about 200 yards, which is what the university spokeswoman said is the belief was where that shot came from.
Again, that person likely is somebody who perhaps had some training. According to officials we've been talking to, they believe that someone perhaps had some kind of training in order to be able to carry a shot like that. Again, at this stage, it's still very early, and they're trying to do some search warrants and try to make sure they have the right person in custody -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Evan, thank you very much. And we have our team here to go through this breaking news as it is developing here, moment by moment. And let's -- including a reporter who's on the ground witnessed the shooting. And, of course, our team here.
I want to start, though, with Emma Pitts from Deseret News. She was there at Charlie Kirk event, five rows away from him when he was killed.
And, Emma, I'm sorry to you and for you that you had to witness such a thing and not the -- not the type of assignment that you would have ever thought or expected to be at.
Can you, as everyone tries to understand the horror of what has happened here, tell us about the moment this shooting happened?
EMMA PITTS, DESERET NEWS REPORTER WHO WAS COVERING KIRK EVENT: Yeah, of course. I mean, like you showed in the tape, it was his second question with this debater. He just answered and I watched him as he put his mic down. And the first thing I noticed was the amount of blood I saw. So much blood came out of his neck. And then I watched as his eyes closed and he went limp.
And it really, truly felt like I was watching his life leave his body. It was. It was so instantaneous.
BURNETT: And just horrific.
Could you, you know, given that you were obviously very close, right? You were five rows away. I'm sure you were very aware of the fact that there was plenty of security at this event. We hear that the shot we understand at this point, they think came from a sniper on a roof, but there was security around him, right? I mean, he did have a security detail, we know. Was it -- was it visible to you?
PITTS: Yes. He did have his personal security. And I did notice that I noticed there were local police officers behind his tent that were standing watch. I will note, though, that my colleague and I, that I was sharing a byline with for this story, we kind of made a point of, wait, there aren't that many police officers here. And in the press conference that we just left, they said that there were six university officers. I believe, that were assigned --
BURNETT: It looks like we just lost her shot when we get her back, though, I do have some more questions. If we can get him back, we'll get her back.
But, John Miller, let me go to you now.
You know, hearing her talk about it, it's just seeing such a horrific thing. And that it happened -- it happened like this. What is the latest that you're learning, talking to your sources? I mean, that press conference did have some moments of confusion.
Do they or do they not have the person in custody that they, for all intents and purposes, know did this or not? Can you tell.
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: They have a person in custody who they've referred to as a person of interest? But this is -- this is essentially their main suspect right now. How do they get there?
Let's go back to that footage of the rooftop with the yellow tape.
[19:10:02]
When the shots fired individuals saw people -- saw a figure on a rooftop. Now, this rooftop is the only one that has crime scene tape on it. It fits that 200-yard distance. It's way far away behind a building and then behind a lower building. And this is the taller building where someone could have been in the corner of that building where those air vents are, and actually got in a straight line of sight all the way across down that amphitheater to where Kirk was in that tent.
BURNETT: I mean, you know, Tim Clemente, I just to -- the horrible reality of this to be that far away. They're saying 200 yards, right, John?
MILLER: Right.
BURNETT: Two hundred yards with a single shot, that requires somebody who knows what they're doing, right?
TIM CLEMENTE, FORMER FBI COUNTERTERRORISM AGENT: It does, Erin. It's not a spectacular shot. I was actually training snipers this morning. And up until the time this event happened, and they were taking shots out 500, 600 yards routinely. So, 200 yards isn't a terrible distance, but you need to know how to aim and control your trigger pull. And that's about all it takes at 200 yards to make an effective shot like that.
BURNETT: And so, Tim, you know, and I think that context is so crucial as obviously you, you know, you're training snipers today. So, you know of what you speak.
This large crowd in attendance, we know that he had his own private security. Interesting. What Emma was saying that that there was a police presence, but not as much as she and her colleagues would have expected when they were there.
You know, Tim, just to think about this moment that were in, as you are training snipers today and all of a sudden you see this headline, how big of a shock is something like this happening in this country?
CLEMENTE: It's horrific. It's a terrible shock. I mean, this takes us back to a period of time in the 1960s when leaders on both sides were being killed. And, you know, we don't expect that today, but here -- it's, you know, one of my sons texted me and said, it's so tragic. And this is over hurt feelings.
Charlie Kirk never hurt anyone. He just had political opposition to some people and religious beliefs that were in opposition to some people. And because of those belief differences, he's now dead, and we can't survive as a nation when someone who speaks differently than you, who says things you don't agree with, is somebody you're willing to kill, and I don't know how we get past this without bringing people together.
And you mentioned earlier in the story how Charlie Kirk liked to go to these rallies and, and ask questions of people that disagreed with him so they could debate. And debate is the one thing that's lacking in the country.
BURNETT: So, we have Emma back now from "The Deseret News".
Emma, can I just ask you when that question happened? And just to be clear, we understand -- you know, they're pointing to the possibility of this person having been on the roof. That's the entire direction that this is going right now, that that's the person of interest, person on the roof and sniper.
The question obviously was asked from the ground, but could you see anything about the questioner at the press conference? They seem to indicate they still didn't know who that individual was.
PITTS: I'll be honest, I hadn't thought of it. But when that journalist had asked that, it kind of did -- it made me pause and think, you know, it -- it's almost like a dark irony of that was the question that was asked but again, yeah, there's just -- we don't know enough information. And law enforcement hasn't shared more on that.
BURNETT: Yeah, we don't know. Of course, as we played it, the question was about transgender shooters right before the shot was fired.
Adam Wren, you have been on this program so many times because of your incredible reporting on MAGA influencers and those media juggernauts in the MAGA influencer world. Charlie Kirk one of them, you interviewed him multiple times for "Politico". I know you spoke to Laura Loomer tonight who is also obviously crucial in the movement, and knew Charlie Kirk well.
So, what is the reaction? What are you hearing from MAGA about this horrific -- what seems to be assassination?
ADAM WREN, POLITICO SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Erin, I spoke with, with Charlie just a few weeks back for a story about whether the MAGA coalition could stay together and what Vice President J.D. Vance's role in that was. And, you know, he told me that he thought that Vance would inherit the coalition, that he wanted to see him if Vance himself wanted to run, wanted to see him run in 2028 but was always sort of struck by his cheeriness he, you know, always seemed to be, you know, in a good mood about this.
But what I'm hearing from influencers like Laura Loomer is they see this moment as a real rallying cry, for the right. They -- they want -- the left to be punished over this.
They see the left as producing a disproportionate number of violent people. They point to the assassination attempt -- attempts against President Trump last year.
[19:15:00]
And, of course, you know, we can zero back in and find instances, of the right on violence as well. But they clearly see this as a rallying cry and want vengeance. Some of them have used that word specifically, "vengeance".
Loomer is saying that this was a professional hit job on Charlie Kirk. And so, it doesn't seem like we can unwind the gordian knot of political violence here.
BURNETT: I mean, the word vengeance is a horrible word. I know others have used it even worse. Horrible in the context of where we are right now.
Juliette, an event like this Charlie Kirk had -- he had a security detail for a reason, right? He had received threats. They were real threats. And he had a security detail.
Are you surprised at how easy it was? I mean, there were no mags. I mean, you know, things that you had to clear for guns. I mean, this was not -- this was not Trump and Butler, right, where theoretically everyone had gone through security screening. This was just show up at a college campus and see Charlie Kirk.
BURNETT: Right, which was what his appeal was to so many in the movement and so many young people was his accessibility. And his level of security would reflect his desire in terms of his accessibility.
But I want to be clear, this was not an assassination from the crowd. This was a political assassination from a roof with a sniper. The severity and intensity of this kind of attack is, is not like the masses are dangerous. It is -- it is at Charlie Kirk was -- this was at a political assassination.
And there -- you know, this talk of what it means for the nation is serious now. It's always been serious, which is, you know, political violence, is a -- is a -- has been unleashed. And we can talk about this attempt or that attempt or that assassination, whatever. It's happening both on the left and right. And rational people know that. They know what the data shows.
That -- and what the commonality that we need as a nation is to understand that a free society only exists when people feel they can enter the political arena, as Charlie Kirk did, say things that people like, that they dislike and not be killed for it.
This is an attack on the United States, as well as Charlie Kirk. I'm not optimistic we're going to bring this genie back into the bottle, but it has to be said that this is -- this is -- this is a path that is really bad for the United States.
BURNETT: I think everybody should be able to see that and know that.
John, when we look at a map of this campus to understand exactly what happened, you see where Kirk was speaking right under that tent and you know, as to emphasize the casual accessibility of the entire event. It took nearly five hours, though, for police to say a person of interest was in custody.
MILLER: Well --
BURNETT: That's -- that feels like a long time? Is that feeling right?
MILLER: No. First of all, you have a guy who was arrested at the scene. Don't know why he was --
BURNETT: Believed to be the wrong guy, right?
MILLER: Yeah. So that's George Zinn. And George Zinn was charged with obstruction of justice. He is a known figure in Utah. He's been arrested numerous times in conflicts with authorities, allegedly making threats to the Salt Lake City marathon and so on.
So, he goes into the distraction category right now, he's a known entity. Don't know what caused him to take him in custody there. But not believed to be the shooter or anything to do with the shooter right now.
This other individual who would have been on that rooftop, they actually used a video canvass to say, okay, we have this dark figure on the rooftop. Do we have video of somebody in that clothing description leaving.
Now, there's --
BURNETT: A person went to all the trouble. I mean, all the planning, obviously planning --
MILLER: Right.
BURNETT: -- but then didn't change?
MILLER: Well, I mean, one thing we also learned was that the gun wasn't recovered at the scene. So, it sounds like he managed to do his pre-operational planning. Find that spot, line it up where he thought, you know, his victim would be, take out Kirk with a single bullet, pack up the weapon, maybe break it down, put it into a smaller bag. If you get off that roof, you have access right to a parking lot where he could have easily gotten into a car and left.
In the video canvas, what we don't know. Did they get a good image of him, or was it just the clothing? Were they able to get a license plate reader of a car leaving that took them to a name, but we know there's an individual about 25 years old who's in custody as that person of interest.
But this is -- this is where it starts, not where it finishes. That means getting, as Evan pointed out, a search warrant for the house, a search warrant for the car. Do you then recover the gun? Can you match the ballistics? They have a lot of work to do tonight.
BURNETT: Tonight?
MILLER: And they have to figure out. Was he acting alone? Who else is there? Who's he in communications with? They have a lot of work to do tomorrow, too.
[19:20:01]
BURNETT: Right. And all these things we don't know. We don't know that -- we don't know the topic of the question, transgender, with the moment that was chosen, was that relevant or not? We know. We just don't know.
All right. Thank you all very much. As our breaking news coverage continues here.
Utah Governor Spencer Cox, OUTFRONT next, just moments ago, confirming that a person of interest in the apparent assassination of Charlie Kirk is in custody. So, we understand that actually that person is being interviewed as we are talking. So we've got more on that. What's happening right now next.
And immediate bipartisan outrage. There was finger pointing, unfortunately, some really ugly finger pointing. But there was bipartisan outrage, too.
Arizona Senator Mark Kelly, his wife, Gabby Giffords, was severely wounded by a gunman in 2011. He is OUTFRONT next. And this horrible moment. And then more on who Charlie Kirk was. He started a political movement in his teens, and he never shied away from controversy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KIRK: Well, I think that we should put Americans above foreigners.
If a woman is going to have an abortion, is it 50 percent the man's decision?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:25:14]
BURNETT: The breaking news, a person of interest in custody in the apparent assassination of Charlie Kirk, the conservative activist, is now being questioned. The governor of Utah, Spencer Cox, said that that individual is being interviewed right now and that right now, he says they have no reason to believe a second person is involved.
The governor was then extremely emotional in pleading with this country to end political violence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. SPENCER COX (R), UTAH: Nothing I say can unite us as a country. Nothing I can say right now can fix what is broken. Nothing I can say can bring back Charlie Kirk.
We desperately need leaders in our country. But more than the leaders, we just need every single person in this country to think about where we are and where we want to be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Kirk was a strong ally of President Trump, and Trump almost immediately ordered flags across the U.S. to be flown at half-staff after announcing Charlie Kirk's death. Kristen Holmes is at the White House tonight.
And, Kristen, as you were watching all of this horror unfold and those moments when everyone across this country was hoping that Charlie Kirk would make it, that he would survive and then found out that he did not, how close was Charlie Kirk with Donald Trump?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT : Erin, he was incredibly close. I've been told by sources that Trump viewed him as a son, and just moments ago, Trump's own son, Don Jr., posted a lengthy and emotional tribute to Charlie Kirk, saying that he was like a brother to him.
You have to remember that when it comes to Donald Trump, his family and the closest allies that are here at the White House, they viewed themselves as loyalists to each other. It was a small group of people who were in it together to fight for the White House, to secure the presidency, and now to fight for President Trump's agenda. And Charlie Kirk was very much part of that.
And when you talk to the staffers and advisers to Trump, you have to remember when were talking about the small group of people, it wasn't just that Charlie Kirk was a figure that was here politically. He also had his family here. The families were close.
He had brought his family to the White House. He had spent time. These people in the White House, these staffers, these advisors had spent time with Charlie's family.
And when it comes to President Trump and Charlies relationship, it was one of mutual respect. I was told by a number of sources that that Trump deeply respected Kirk. Even if Kirk was to push back, and that there were so many inside of the Republican Party who viewed Kirk as having a finger on the pulse of the MAGA movement -- of the MAGA base in a way that even some of Donald Trump's own appointees that are serving in cabinet positions didn't have.
And you could hear President Trump -- he has time and time again thanked Charlie Kirk for his help in winning the 2024 election. I just want to play for you some of what Trump has said about Kirk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I won the young people by 37 percent. No Republican has ever won, and I won by 37 percent. And Charlie Kirk will tell you, TikTok helped. But Charlie Kirk helped also.
He's done great and I appreciate all the help. Charlie is fantastic. I mean, this guy don't believe the stuff. When you hear the kids are liberal, they're not liberal. Maybe they used to be, but they're not anymore.
I want to express my tremendous gratitude to Charlie Kirk. He's really an amazing guy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: And again, it's not just Donald Trump who believes that Charlie Kirk helped propel him into the presidency. It's all those around him as well.
I mean, we saw the crowd that was gathered there today in Utah. There were thousands of people at these events that I went to, many of them during the campaign that were there to see Charlie Kirk, to listen to Charlie Kirk. He believed he could persuade people through debate, and he was a true believer in President Trump and in conservative values.
And there are a lot of people out there who are mourning this loss. And in the White House behind me, you know, again, this isn't just somebody who helped Donald Trump win. It was part of their family.
BURNETT: And of course, someone who at times had taken Trump on, for example, on Epstein.
All right. Thank you very much, Kristen.
And I want to go now to Democratic Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona. His wife, former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords, was severely wounded by a gunman while she was meeting with constituents in 2011.
And, Senator, how horrible to be talking to you under such tragic circumstances of, something that happened that changed your life, Gabby's life forever. It happened 14 years ago.
And then today, in the middle of the day, you see this? Can you believe this has happened this time? Charlie Kirk husband, young father, two very young children. And tonight, he's dead.
[19:30:02]
SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): Yeah, Erin, it's another horrifying day in our country. I'll never forget that phone call I got 14, you know, years ago, you know, when Gabby was shot.
And I just think about his wife, Erika and his two children and the horrible situation that they face today. With Gabby, she survived. I mean, Charlie is now gone. He's not much older.
He's about the same age as my oldest kid, and I can't imagine what his parents are going through and how his wife is going to have to live with this and their children.
This is -- this is another horrible day in our country with again, unnecessary political violence, which is just un-American.
BURNETT: I mean, it's just so tragic. His children, I mean, I'm not putting anything out there that isn't out there on Wikipedia. I mean, one of them was just over a year old, right? That child's not going to remember their father. That is a horrible, horrible thing. The other one, just barely three.
Your wife released a statement, Senator, tonight that said in part, quote, "Democratic societies will always have political disagreements, but we must never allow America to become a country that confronts those disagreements with violence, attacks against political or ideological opponents are cowardly and un-American and must be universally condemned.
And of course, her words of grace and wisdom. I just wonder, and I think this is how maybe many see this, that it is such a terrifying and tragic moment because people wonder and we all wonder, senator, whether this country is simply too divided right now to do that, to come together and to stop this from happening again.
KELLY: Erin, I worry about that. I worry about it every single day here in Washington or wherever I am in the country. Back in Arizona, Charlie obviously was one of my constituents. Political violence is never the answer. It divides us.
But also, I've got to say, political rhetoric, too, from both sides often gets out of hand and it incites people to do things like this. And I think it's, you know, so important in times like this when we all take a step back and think about, you know, our words and the consequences of them, you know, from both sides of the political spectrum. Charlie had every right to be out there. It's his First Amendment
rights speaking to kids at a university and his life is ended because of this. This isn't who we should be. This is never the answer.
You know, just -- I mean, not too long ago in Minnesota, Melissa Hortman, because she was serving in the state legislature, was assassinated in her home. I mean, this is happening, you know, too frequently in our country, and it has to end.
BURNETT: You talk about the rhetoric, and it is it is awful on both sides at times, right? And today, of course, on Capitol Hill, you've had anger and outrage and frustration by everyone.
Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren was asked about, you know, some of the Republicans out there who came out and said, its Democrats. They need to lower the temperature. That is the problem here. She responded to that with this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): Oh, please. Right? Why don't you start with the president of the United States? Right? And every ugly meme he has posted and every ugly word.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Is that right or wrong, do you think?
KELLY: Well, it was kind of broken. I couldn't hear everything. But I would say everybody needs to lower the temperature.
You know, I've heard things said by my Democratic colleagues that are not helpful. I've heard things said by my Republican colleagues. And I think it's important for people to understand, especially when they are in leadership positions, that your words have consequences.
You know, people are going to debate why this guy did this. You know, in my view, this was a political assassination. It was the same attempted political assassination in my wife's case because of something she said. Melissa Hortman, because she was serving. Donald Trump, because he was the former president running for president.
We've seen this throughout our history, but I do feel like many Americans that this has gotten worse. And it's up to us, people like myself as a United States senator, to set an example and others need to do that as well, that we've got to bring the temperature down and, and convince people that we are one nation, and we are stronger when we work together.
[19:35:01]
Political parties should not matter. We all have the same goal here. And I know things can get a little out of hand. And we have elections, and elections have consequences and that's okay. But we've got to be really careful with how we speak about our political opponents. And, you know, when things get out of hand, I think it's up to us to just take a step back and think, you know, what are the consequences of what we say.
BURNETT: Senator, I'm grateful to have the chance to talk to you tonight. Thank you.
KELLY: Thank you, Erin.
BURNETT: And next, Elle Reeve. She covered Kirk extensively, spent time with him, interviewed him, and she's got a lot more tonight, including details on the security team he had around him and those threats that he was facing every single day.
And leading right wing voices saying Kirk's killing now means war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEX JONES, RADIO HOST: We're in a war.
STEVE BANNON, PODCAST HOST: Charlie Kirk's a casualty of war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:40:38]
BURNETT: Breaking news, the fatal shooting of conservative activist Charlie Kirk spreading well beyond the world of politics. Tonight, the New York Yankees just holding a moment of silence tonight before their game at Yankee Stadium in his memory. You see his image there for a packed Yankee stadium tonight.
This tribute coming as a person of interest in his apparent assassination, is in custody right now. Hours after he was shot while speaking at an event in a college campus, taking questions from students. The gunfire causing panic among the crowd who came to see him, and it was a big crowd. Several thousand, according to authorities.
Emily Anderson stern of "The Salt Lake Tribune" was there covering it.
And, Emily, it was a huge crowd. We understand at least 3,000. I mean, what was it like in the moments just before the shooting, as you were there?
EMILY ANDERSON STERN, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE REPORTER WHO WAS COVERING KIRK EVENT: You know, I was standing among a group of mostly college aged kids. There were a lot of folks who were pretty excited, big fans of Charlie Kirk, excited to see him there, answering questions.
There were also folks who clearly weren't students, adults with their kids in tow. And also, just, you know students who were onlookers. There were a number of students who were there, counter-protesting with counter messaging, holding up signs. But generally, the majority of the crowd were supporters of Charlie Kirk.
And, you know, there were chants of Trump, USA. And a lot of people who'd come who were either university students from this area or who traveled from other parts of Utah just to see him.
BURNETT: So, it sounds like you say mostly college students, but others that did come from other places, including people with children. I mean, so mostly college, but a diverse crowd in that sense.
Then when this happened, the question happens on transgender shootings. Right. And right after that question is when he was shot, did you realize immediately what had even happened?
STERN: Immediately after we heard the gunshot, everyone hit the ground. I initially wasn't sure if it was a prank or it was real. There were screams, and then we saw police officers coming with their hands on their weapons. And I realized, okay, this is serious.
Initially, after I heard the shot, you know, I went to the ground with everyone else. And as soon as I looked back at the table where Charlie Kirk was seated, he was gone. So I really didn't realize what had happened until -- until I started talking to some of the attendees who had seen what had happened, had seen him be shot.
BURNETT: Emily, I appreciate your time and thank you very much for sharing that. And you know, reliving its difficult. So thank you.
Alyssa Farah Griffin is here with me, Elle Reeve and David Axelrod.
And, Alyssa, you knew Charlie Kirk. You both came up, you know, in the Republican Party, obviously different political views over time, right? But you knew him.
What was your reaction to this? As you see this today? You're looking at your phone. You go, oh, my god.
ALYSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's devastating. Like even just hearing you say it, that Charlie Kirk has passed and that he was assassinated, that were saying those words is shocking.
He was a huge figure in Republican politics. He was a little younger than me. He came up under me. And I remember thinking when he hit the scene, it was like, who is this young guy who's going to college campuses engaging people directly, and he's really energizing Republicans to feel like on college campuses, when their minority voices, they can speak up.
There are going to be devastated young people across the country with this loss. And listen, I'm just thinking of his family. I'm thinking of his friends. He was 31 years old, a young father. It's absolutely devastating.
And I'm thinking also of the west wing right now. He had very close friends in this White House. I heard from people who were in tears as they got the news, you know, at work, just doing their jobs. It's -- it's really, truly shocking for a lot of people.
BURNETT: Shocking. And of course, you know, as it happened, Elle, there was a window of time when it was thinking, okay, people were thinking about back to Butler and saying, well, maybe it just maybe he's going to be okay. Right? As if somehow that would make all of this better.
And of course it would. But yet it was an apparent assassination in that case. Now it was. And this -- this horrible thing has happened. He's dead.
But yet, Elle, and in the emotion of it, there's finger pointing.
There's bipartisan outrage. There's people like Senator Mark Kelly, but there is also some really, really aggressive rhetoric out there. Some right-wing voices are saying it means war. You highlighted some of them. I'm going to play it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: We're in a war. The left has been saying, put a bull's eye on Trump, a bull's eye on his supporters.
BANNON: Charlie Kirk's a casualty of war. We're at war in this country. We are.
JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: They are at war with us. Whether we want to accept it or not, they are at war with us. What are we going to do about it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Elle, you wanted to go cover Charlie on this tour next week, actually, because he's going. He was going across the country, college to college.
You've interviewed him. What are you learning from his supporters now?
ELLE REEVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When we hear things like that from people like Steve Bannon, Alex Jones, there's basically two types of reactions. First, there's horrified, speechless people who professionally speak for a living are afraid to talk like Candace Owens didn't have her show tonight. A publicist for conservative activist told me people were too devastated to speak.
C.J. Pierson, a conservative influencer, told me the conversation among other influencers was like, is it too dangerous to do this work? The other reaction is, this is an escalation of political violence. There's going to be more one guy told me it would be very, very bad for the left when the right actually was provoked into responding. They see it as a very one-sided battle.
BURNETT: David, with the context of history, how precarious is this moment?
DAVID AXELROD, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think it's very precarious. And you just outlined it in the questions you asked earlier. We can go. One of two ways in this country. We can embrace this notion that somehow were at war and there'll be more killing and more violence. Or we can learn from this moment. I -- you mentioned history. I was a kid when, we went through a period
of assassination in the 1960s. I remember when Martin Luther King was killed. Robert Kennedy went onto the streets of Indianapolis. He was a candidate for president at that time and was very, very dangerous, frankly, for him to be out there but he insisted on going. And he spoke to the crowd.
And, Erin, he finished, and I wanted to share this. He finished with a poem by Aeschylus, the ancient Greek poet. And it was, even in our sleep pain which cannot forget falls drop by, drop upon the heart, until in our own despair, against our will comes wisdom. Through the awful grace of God.
The question is have we seen enough, to embrace wisdom here and recognize that this is not a path that we want to go? As a country, and let's be clear, I heard what those folks said. Weve had political assassinations of Democrats and Republicans of the left and the right. This is not something that is exclusive to one or the other.
But I will say, if we continue to embrace this notion that if we disagree that were not only political opponents, but you are an enemy, you are an evil. You want to destroy the country. You want to destroy our way of life. That is a prescription for disaster.
BURNETT: Yeah, yeah. Well, the civil war that so many fear that people talk about.
I mean, Elle, Jack Posobiec was one of Kirk's closest friends, also hugely significant and influential in the MAGA movement. He spoke with Steve Bannon and said that Kirk obviously knew about security risk, and that's why he had security detail. But he talked specifically about Kirk's awareness of some of the threats that he faced. Let me just play what Jack said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACK POSOBIEC, FAR-RIGHT POLITICAL ACTIVIST: After Butler, I said to Charlie -- I said, Charlie, are you sure you still want to keep doing these? And he said, he said, Jack, I'm never going to quit.
BANNON About the security, too, because he says, hey, I can't get too much security because it cuts me off from the young people. It cuts me off from the crowd.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Right. And that's why today I have to say, how come there were no mags, right? I mean, security machines to go through, because that's not the environment he wanted. And you spoke to someone at Turning Point USA about the threats. What did they tell you?
REEVE: Yeah, I talked to rob smith, who used to work at Turning Point with Charlie, and he said that they knew threats. They were just constant and daily. He said that every major conservative influencer speaking at that level gets constant threats. And, and it's really just chilling to know that -- I mean, what people
said when I talked to them was like, they get lots of people saying horrible things to them online all the time, and they don't know who's a keyboard warrior and who's actually capable of violence.
BURNETT: Right.
I mean, and that's the terrifying thing. Let me just play some of the things that Kirk has said, right, so people can understand more about him, right?
[19:50:04]
And I mentioned earlier there were times when he challenged Trump, for example, on Epstein, right? He really wanted more transparency on Epstein. But obviously in most issues, he was really at the front lines of what Trump wanted to put out there. And for those who aren't that familiar with him, let me just play some of Charlie.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIRK: We need to keep the pressure on these universities while young people are moving dramatically to the right. I see this in my college campus tour, which is kicking off again on Wednesday in Utah.
These universities themselves, the institutions, they are not adapting the way they should. Parents need to act accordingly. Alumni need to act accordingly. Board of directors, lawmakers.
We need to start defunding these schools if they continue to defy President Trump's amazing executive orders.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Just a few days ago, that was just a few days ago.
And he's so young. He's a husband and a father. But that that was his political point of view, right? Like that is what he's out there saying.
GRIFFIN: Yeah. And Gen Z is going to be the most right wing generation in 50 years. Statistically speaking, there was a huge turnout of youth voters for Donald Trump. That was unexpected, something that's usually a Democratic stronghold.
There's probably no individual -- individual more responsible for that than Charlie Kirk. You really can't underestimate and downplay how influential he was in activating young people and how hand in hand he was working with the Trump campaign to turn out younger voters.
And I would just say this, echoing what David said, which is you don't have to agree with a damn thing that he said, but he did it the way you're supposed to. He showed up and he debated people, and he engaged them to their faces. He wasn't a keyboard warrior. He wasn't threatening people. That is how a civil society conducts itself. You go to places and you
have debates on the issues of our day, and that's what he modeled. So many of his acolytes who are taking it a different direction, you're not honoring his legacy.
BURNETT: So, David, what happens now?
AXELROD: Well, that's a -- I think that's a very good question. And it goes back to what we were talking about before. Does this just harden what are already becoming very, very hard battle lines? And do people take this as a sign to retaliate? Or do we step back?
And a lot of it has to do with the tone of our leaders and whether they urge, whether they urge some calm and reflection or whether some people try and capitalize on an event in a grotesque way. This is a tragedy for the country, a tragedy for this young man, a tragedy for his family.
It would be a shame to try and weaponize this, but, you know, that can happen as well. And we'll see which way people go.
BURNETT: Yeah. Thank you all very much.
And next, we're following this breaking news, a person of interest in custody right now. New details ahead on that, as we look at Charlie Kirks vast political influence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Charlie is fantastic. I mean, this guy -- don't believe the stuff when you hear the kids are liberal. They're not liberal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:56:37]
BURNETT: Breaking news, President George W. Bush just reacting to Charlie Kirk's murder saying, quote, "Today, a young man was murdered in cold blood while expressing his political views. Members of other political parties are not our enemies. They are our fellow citizens." President Clinton adding that he saddened and angered and quote, "I hope we all go through some serious introspection and redouble our efforts to engage in debate passionately yet peacefully."
Tom Foreman has much more on who Charlie Kirk was.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KIRK: Taking guns is the beginning of the end of the rest of your freedoms.
Having children is more important than having a good career.
I think that we should put Americans above foreigners. There's a revival happening in this country right now, Lawrence. And
praise God.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Combative, clever, energetic and just barely in his 30s, Charlie Kirk was a major link to younger voters for the political right, praised by President Donald Trump as a key to retaking the White House.
TRUMP: Charlie is fantastic. I mean, this guy -- don't believe the stuff when you hear the kids are liberal. They're not liberal. Maybe they used to be, but they're not anymore.
FOREMAN: Growing up in a Chicago suburb, Kirk took to conservative ideas early, criticizing what he called liberal bias in education, minority hiring practices and more, co-founding the right-wing political group Turning Point USA and hitting the airwaves while still just a teenager.
KIRK: A lot of kids are feeling the effects of what we like to call, you know, what the Washington economy, with a lot of debt, plummeting, small business with higher regulation and higher taxes.
FOREMAN: When he did not get into West Point, Kirk dropped out of college and turned to political activism with a fury.
KIRK: Universities are not about the pursuit of knowledge. They're about the forceful pushing of a left-wing worldview.
White privilege is a racist myth that is rooted in bigotry, trying to classify people based on their skin color.
If a woman is going to have an abortion, is it 50 percent the man's decision?
FOREMAN: His outspoken ways drew a huge following and fierce opposition.
DEMONSTRATORS: You spread hate. You spread lies. We see Nazis in the sky.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you feel about being called a fascist? What's your opinion on that?
KIRK: I don't -- I don't care being lied about.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why is it a lie?
KIRK: Because I'm not a fascist. I believe in a free society. Let me ask you, who's the fascist? The guy that's smiling in the sun or the 500 people barking, trying to prevent me from speaking?
FOREMAN: Through it all, the married father of two engaged with not just political friends, but also foes, forever spreading a gospel of more.
KIRK: In order to create more conservatives and more people who love the country. You need to have the three M's. Young people need to get married. They need to mate, and get a mortgage. The three M's are three things the Democrat Party is against.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN (on camera): For all of his really extremist views in a political sense, there were an awful lot of people who talked about him as being likable, that he was simply an interesting person to debate if you disagreed with him, an interesting person to agree with if you agreed with him.
And the thing is, Erin, while we have no idea what lies, what would have been ahead if he had gone on with his life, we also do not know, as so many of your guests have noted, what the political left and right will now do with his death, and that could be a legacy that would go far beyond what he had done so far in his life.
BURNETT: Yeah, absolutely. All right, Tom, thank you very much.
FOREMAN: Yeah.
BURNETT: And thanks to all of you for being with us for this breaking news.
"AC360" starts now.
