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Erin Burnett Outfront
Jimmy Kimmel Pulled Off The Air Over Charlie Kirk Remarks. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired September 17, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:24]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
We have breaking news. ABC is yanking Jimmy Kimmel's show indefinitely, indefinitely, after remarks about Charlie Kirk. And this is just breaking.
We have the very latest, really shocking news just breaking here tonight as the FBI director today was accused of an Epstein cover up. Kash Patel repeatedly testifying he can't release the documents. The courts, though, have said otherwise, as Trump tonight is facing protests and questions about Epstein, even on his trip to London.
And tonight, a sheriff's warning to Tyler Robinson romantic partner. The sheriff telling friends and family of Charlie Kirk alleged killer to, quote, lay low. That sheriff is my guest.
Let's go OUTFRONT. And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
And OUTFRONT tonight, we do begin with this very late breaking news, Jimmy Kimmel's late night talk show has been pulled off the air indefinitely, pulled off the air indefinitely.
ABC is just making this announcement about "Jimmy Kimmel Live!" just hours after the Trump-aligned chairman of the FCC went on a podcast threatening to take action against ABC and its parent, Disney, about Jimmy Kimmel, specifically over these comments by Jimmy Kimmel two nights ago.
What Jimmy Kimmel did, I'm going to play it for you, but I'll tell you what he did. He suggested that the suspected killer of Charlie Kirk might have been a pro-Trump Republican.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE!": We hit some new lows over the weekend, with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them, and doing everything they can to score political points from it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Of course, he didn't celebrate it, didn't do anything like that. He just came out and talked about it. And you saw what he just said. He said, we hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize the kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them, and doing everything they can to score political points from it. That's the direct quote of what Jimmy Kimmel said.
So why does that warrant this? Again, it wasn't even a celebration. And I know people are very torn on that. And what is free speech or not free speech?
But here is what the FCC chairman, Brendan Carr, just warned.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRENDAN CARR, FCC CHAIRMAN: You know, when you look at the conduct that has taken place by Jimmy Kimmel, it appears to be some of the sickest conduct possible. Obviously, there's calls for him to be fired. I think, you know, you could certainly see a path forward for suspension over this. And again, you know, the FCC is going to have remedies that we could look at.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, he said it and then it happened. A suspension.
Note he called Kimmel's words the sickest conduct possible. Again, Kimmel wasn't coming out. He wasn't celebrating anything that happened to Charlie Kirk. He was simply speculating as to what side of the political spectrum his killer came from.
What's happening with Kimmel's show, though, comes in the context, of course, of "The Late Show With Stephen Colbert". CBS announced it was canceling, that Colbert was a long time and vocal critic of President Trump. Now, CBS said that this was due to financial reasons, which many, of course, have doubted. In this case, it doesn't appear that such a fig leaf is even present, right? It is pretty clear this is what it looks like.
Elizabeth Wagmeister is OUTFRONT.
And, Elizabeth, it is stunning news. There is no attempt to say that this is anything other than what it appears to be. Kimmel came out, he spoke. The FCC chair said it warranted a possible suspension. And now his show is on indefinite suspension.
What else do you know?
ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: This is a huge shock in the world of media, in the world of entertainment. So let me take you a few steps back. But this has been playing out literally minute by minute, just happening, Erin. So, Nexstar, which is one of the country's biggest station owners, they said that they were going to preempt "Jimmy Kimmel Live!" after the FCC came out with those comments on that podcast that you just referenced.
Then I reached out to ABC, and here's the statement that they gave me on the record. Aaron, they say, quote, "'Jimmy Kimmel Live!' will be preempted indefinitely. Short and sweet. But direct and to the point."
Now, this is Jimmy Kimmel. This is the face of ABC. For this to happen so quickly with really again, no explanation from ABC, just it is what it is, it is stunning. It is shocking.
[19:05:02]
I just saw Jimmy Kimmel three nights ago at the Emmy Awards, you know, at the after parties. And he was rubbing shoulders with the who's who of Hollywood, obviously still in good graces.
Now, I know that you played Kimmel's comments that he had made about Charlie Kirk suspected killer, but I also want to read to you some comments that came the day Charlie Kirk was murdered from Jimmy Kimmel. Here's what he tweeted. He said, quote, "Instead of the angry finger pointing, can we just for one day agree that it is horrible and monstrous to shoot another human? On behalf of my family, we send love to the Kirks and to all of the children, parents and innocents who fall victim to senseless gun violence."
So, obviously, he has spoken out about this. You know, the day that it happened with some grace. But it's no secret to anyone that Jimmy Kimmel has been a foe of President Trump. They have been going back and forth at each other for years. So again, not a secret that he is not, you know, at the top of President Trump's favorite list for sure.
BURNETT: Well, no. And president Trump has obviously gotten -- gotten what the administration wants in this case. As we said, its an indefinite suspension.
Elizabeth, please stay with me. And I know you're literally, you know, texting with your sources as we speak. So please stay with us.
As you're doing that, I want to bring in Brian Stelter and Bill Carter, of course, long time media career analyst, so many decades at "The New York Times".
Okay, so let me just ask you, Brian, what more you're learning about this just in these minutes. I mean, it truly dropped as I think a shock to anybody who heard it, even if they knew that Brendan Carr, the pro-Trump chief of the FCC, had made the comments he made on that podcast. I don't think there's anybody who literally thought within hours Jimmy Kimmel would be gone.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Right. Absolutely right. In fact, this was very sudden this afternoon after Carr spoke out on that far right podcast. Then some stations that are owned by other companies but affiliated with ABC started to complain to ABC. We know one of them, Nexstar, which has about two dozen stations with the ABC logo and all the ABC programing. Nexstar publicly announced that they were going to drop Kimmel's show indefinitely within a matter of minutes. We heard from Disney that the show was being pulled altogether. That suggests to me that other station owners were probably also getting scared.
Other station owners were probably also coming up with backup plans not to air Kimmel show. But even though we're talking about comedy, this is so serious, Erin, America is a less free place if late night comedians cannot do and say what they want.
Of course, they can be tuned out. People can change the channel. That's how we vote. That's how we have our say in America.
But this really does have a chilling effect across the American media. And it's not just me saying it. Weve heard from the group FIRE in the past few minutes. The free speech group FIRE saying, quote, the government pressured ABC and ABC caved, quote, "We cannot be a country where late night talk show hosts serve at the pleasure of the president. But until institutions grow a backbone and learn to resist government pressure, that is the country we are.
And just one more note, Erin. I've heard from Brendan Carr in the past few minutes. He's very pleased about Nexstar deciding to preempt the show. He has not officially reacted to ABC's decision yet, but when I told him about ABC's decision to go ahead and basically, this is a cancellation unless the show ever comes back, he did send me a Gif. He sent me a celebratory meme as his reaction, Erin.
BURNETT: I mean, Bill, let me just ask you about where we are in this moment, okay? Because fear has a domino effect. You have a late-night comedian who is first reaction to the horrific assassination of Charlie Kirk as Elizabeth just laid out, was to say, my wife and is thoughts go out to that family. What a horrible thing, right? Made very clear where he stood.
By the way, hard core free speech advocates would say that that isn't even a caveat that is needed in this conversation. Okay? But I'm not even -- but I'm just making the point that he had taken that stance.
He comes out the other night and he and he merely has a late night comedian could do said, by the way, no one knows the full facts about this assassin and says, well, it could be this. And that's what he says. Could be -- could be MAGA.
And to that he gets this response from the FCC chair. I want to play a little bit more of you, Bill, a little bit more of Brendan Carr here from the FCC for you. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRENDAN CARR, FCC CHAIR: Any license granted by us at the FCC, and that comes with it an obligation to operate in the public interest. But frankly, when you see stuff like this -- I mean, look, we can do this the easy way or the hard way. These companies can find ways to change conduct, to take action, frankly on Kimmel or, you know, there's going to be additional work for the FCC ahead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:10:01]
BURNETT: Again, Bill, there's no fig leaf there. You can do this the easy way or the hard way. I don't think it gets any more painfully and disgustingly obvious than that.
BILL CARTER, FORMER NEW YORK TIMES MEDIA REPORTER: Does that not sound like a mob thing to you? That sounds like a mob thing to me.
BURNETT: Yes.
CARTER: You know, it's a definite open threat, and the FCC is basically saying we have control of broadcast licenses, and we will use that against you if you don't play ball with us. And it's really a serious moment. This is a serious moment.
This is ABC basically saying we can't stand up to this. We have to back away. We can't stand up to this.
And every time this happens, it means the next thing is in the offing. They're not going to back off. This means you can't say anything without us coming after you. I think they're promising that they're basically sending the message out there. It's going to be this way if you don't play ball with us, if you criticize us, if you use your airwaves in ways we don't like, we have your license and we can take it away. It's really a dangerous, dangerous time.
BURNETT: Elizabeth, it also comes in the context of -- I mean, I mentioned Colbert, right? And now were talking about Kimmel, but you have -- Trump talking about lawsuits that settled in his favor by news organizations yesterday, making it clear not only does he add all of that into this, his victories, but also that he wants to go after others.
Here was the exchange as he's on his way to England that he had with ABC News longtime, top of the top ABC News White House correspondent Jonathan Karl. I'll play it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: She'll probably go after people like you because you treat me so unfairly. It's hate. You have a lot of hate in your heart. Maybe they'll come after ABC.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: He was talking about free speech there.
I mean, Elizabeth, where does this all lead? Right? I mean, this is -- I understand we were in a domino situation, but this one is seismic.
WAGMEISTER: This is seismic. And if you had told me a few weeks ago that Stephen Colbert show was no longer going to exist, I would have said, you're crazy. If you had told me yesterday or an hour ago that "Jimmy Kimmel Live!" was going to be pulled off the air indefinitely, I would have said, in no world is that going to happen.
So, we are really in unprecedented times. And trust me, the people at ABC did not want to pull "Jimmy Kimmel Live!" He is a favorite of that company. As I said, he is the face of that company. He doesn't just host his
late-night show. He also hosts and produces a series of other projects for them. So, these really are unprecedented times, and I have reached out, by the way, to Kimmel's personal representative. I have not heard back anything yet. I have also asked some additional questions.
Of course, in that initial statement that I obtained, it said that it has been pulled indefinitely. That's not a cancellation, but to Brian and Bill's point, it's almost hard to see a path forward. It's hard to see a world in which President Trump says, sure, I would love for Jimmy Kimmel to come back on the air. I love the guy.
I mean, they hate each other's guts. Let's be honest about that. So, I have asked, is this a cancellation? Are there any plans? Do you know how much longer, how long it will be pulled off the air?
So, all these questions are unanswered. Now, I would imagine that the executives over at Disney and ABC are asking the same questions as us, and that their minds are scrambled, as well as well right now.
BURNETT: Brian, in terms of where we are at this very moment, you know, the general or the very specific taping schedule of Jimmy Kimmel, right? And when they tape, when they get ready. So, we're at 7:30 Eastern Time, what would he normally be doing tonight? What are they doing? What is he doing?
STELTER: Right. And, Bill, correct me if I'm wrong as the true late- night scholar, normally, Kimmel show would be about to be taped is getting ready. He's preparing right now, and maybe that's why we haven't heard from him yet.
Like I said, this escalated very quickly. Really, just in the last hour or so. So, it is possible the audience was already starting to be loaded in and things like that. Yes. A little more time. Yeah, you know, Erin, it occurs to me --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: Go ahead, Bill.
CARTER: I'm just interested because are they -- are they sending everyone home? You know what's happening on the scene? You know, the show would have been taping within the next hour. So people would be there. Yes. This -- this is a very abrupt, very abrupt.
BURNETT: Go ahead, Brian.
STELTER: And this is all about jawboning. It's all about public pressure. You know, actually revoking FCC licenses is extremely difficult. I wrote about this last fall when candidate Donald Trump was talking on the campaign trail about wanting to punish stations by taking away their licenses. And throughout the history of the country, ever since, we've had broadcast television license revocations are extraordinarily rare.
[19:15:04] Once you've got one, you're pretty much guaranteed to keep it.
So the threat is not that the FCC is actually going to take away a license. It's about the public noise. It's about the shame and embarrassment. It's about Brendan Carr going on podcasts and embarrassing ABC. You know, there's a term for this. It's jawboning.
And that's what we've seen happen today in a very real way. Trump vowed retribution on the campaign trail, and he's getting it. He's getting it against entertainers and comedians.
But, Erin, for every reaction, there is a counter reaction. Stephen Colbert has already been joking about getting hired somewhere else. Those jokes mask a real, very real intention, right? Where will he get picked up instead?
If Kimmel parts ways with ABC, and again, Bill, correct me if I'm wrong. I think Kimmel's contract is coming due soon. Kimmel will probably end up somewhere else. And if big old fashioned mainstream media companies don't have the guts to employ these people, then were going to see startups start to flourish.
BURNETT: Yes.
STELTER: You know, we talk about the Substack era with people launching newsletters and live streams on YouTube. We're going to see more of that. If these old-fashioned media companies can't stand a little bit of pressure from the president.
BURNETT: Yeah. Well, I mean, but it is stunning to see such a thing happen and to show this world that we're living in.
Van Jones is joining me now on the phone.
So, Van, you know, all of a sudden you see this headline, Jimmy Kimmel canceled -- not canceled, I'm sorry. Put on hold indefinitely by ABC News after the head of the FCC goes on a far right podcast and says, we can do this the easy way or the hard way. And do you think -- do you think in your mind, it's possible this might not be real?
VAN JONES, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR (via telephone): I don't know what's real and what's not real. I do know that, a news organization anywhere in the world has a responsibility to stand up to government bullying to government censorship. That is what we do. That is why we exist.
Not to knuckle under, not to do what were told, but to stand up and to say, listen, if you want to pull these licenses, then we're going to go to court and we'll be in the court of public opinion. But you don't get to go on a podcast and set policy for American media, for an American media institution that's been around a lot longer than me, you or Donald Trump.
This is a -- this is a red line that has been crossed for our industry, for the First Amendment. For the right of people to speak. There was nothing hateful about what was said. And even hateful speech is protected.
This is -- this is not acceptable. The -- if you are going to run a media organization that's called a news organization, you have to stand up to government bullying anywhere in the world, and certainly in the United States.
BURNETT: Well, the job should be to speak truth to power, even when there are people who don't like the word truth anymore.
All right, Van, stay with us. I want to bring in the Democratic Congressman Robert Garcia, because he is the ranking member on the House Oversight Committee.
And, Congressman, I appreciate your time.
You know, we had planned to talk about something very different and obviously very important tonight in the Epstein files. This news, though, has just broken, and it is of utmost importance at this very moment. May I just ask you, what's your response when you hear what ABC has done after the FCC chair said we could do this the easy way or the hard way?
REP. ROBERT GARCIA (D-CA): Yeah. I mean, obviously we are all just learning about what just happened. Not having all the information, but what I'm hearing is pretty outrageous. Look, we can all, of course, agree that political violence is horrific. What happened to Charlie Kirk is horrific. But the idea that someone is going to get pulled off a news program, off a news, a channel that's supposed to be independent, and that ABC is making this decision because of possible political pressure through the president, is both stunning and outrageous.
And so, I think that as information comes out, we've got to understand what exactly happened, who made these decisions. And there's a lot of questions right now. I think the foundation of a democracy is also having a strong, independent news -- news organizations and a strong independent media. And it's a huge important part of democracy. So I'm honestly pretty, pretty stunned.
I mean, what happened with Stephen Colbert, what's happening right now with Jimmy Kimmel, this cannot be a pattern in the United States. We've got to stand up and allow the media to be independent.
BURNETT: Well, it is unfortunately a pattern now. I -- we're going to -- I want to -- we're going to cue up again in just a second what Brendan Carr, the FCC chair said on that far right, that right wing podcast earlier today. But first, just because you made the point, Congressman, that what Jimmy Kimmel said was not celebratory or hateful hate speech which it wasn't. And again, I will make the point that there are some, including people like Ted Cruz, who came out yesterday and said even that speech is protected in the United States.
So, I'm not trying to put up that that would be some sort of an excuse.
[19:20:01] I am just pointing out that's not what he said. I want to play again for anyone just joining to understand what it was that Jimmy Kimmel said that prompted the FCC chair to say, we could do this the easy or the hard way. Here's Jimmy Kimmel.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIMMEL: We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them, and doing everything they can to score political points from it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Congressman, I'm just going to take a step back and say, after January 6th, you had many on the right saying, no, it's a -- it's an act. It's antifa, right? These speculations about who's to blame for what. And it's not what it looks like. They are everywhere on every horrible act. Okay?
And Jimmy Kimmel just came out and put that in his monologue. I think anybody would say that's obviously not hate speech, but obviously, people on the right, Brendan Carr, didn't like it.
When you see that Jimmy Kimmel is gone because of that, does that even hit harder home to you?
GARCIA: Look, I -- honestly this is very concerning. I think first, Jimmy Kimmel is a late-night host. He is a comedian. We have the First Amendment in this country. Folks have a have the right to say what's on their mind. And certainly, in a monologue on a late-night show.
And I think anyone that's going to listen and watch that clip, I mean, it's pretty clear that this is a direct attack on free speech, and it's one thing for all of us to unite and talk about political violence and denouncing political violence. It's another now to target people who you may not agree with their opinion with, or that you don't like what they have to say.
What's happening right now in these attacks on universities, attacks on people in their job because we don't like what they say, or were policing every word. This is an extreme example now and another direct attack on the media.
And I think one thing is important to be said at this moment, Donald Trump has been in a systematic way, attacking the media, causing harm, impacting the way people believe and interact with the with news gathering, what people are saying. And he continues and continues to tear media and media institutions down.
That overall will harm our country. It's going to harm our world. People need to be able to trust the media and this and what this ABCs actions here at this moment, I think we have a lot of questions about what happened.
BURNETT: So, is there anything Congress can do about it? The FCC chair goes out on a podcast. He says do it or else it gets done. Is there anything you can do? You're the top Democrat on the Oversight Committee.
GARCIA: Look, I will tell you this. I have a lot of questions, and I won't be the only one. I think there's no question that there are going to be some conversations in the Congress very quickly about this and this pattern that continues on from the president. And you cannot have the FCC making and pushing these political decisions, let alone on a podcast, on a -- on a -- on a, on a podcast that you, you know, you're sharing an idea with another right wing commentator, and then all of a sudden, you're implementing this, which is a huge impact.
I mean, there are, as you know, I mean, millions of people watch Jimmy Kimmel, know Jimmy Kimmel interact with what's happening every night. And to somehow pull the show because we didn't like his opinion, not because he said something that was hateful or that somehow encouraged political violence. I think this is a very concerning night for American media and democracy.
We've got to watch this very carefully.
BURNETT: Yes. And I appreciate your time, Congressman, thank you very much. And an important distinction you're drawing again between what would have been a hateful thing to say and, and just speculation. His opinion. Again, as I've pointed out, Ted Cruz, your colleague Don Bacon, all came out and said even hate speech in their view would be protected, right? It was a bipartisan protection. Again, that's not what this was. This is just pure opinion. But I want to make the point.
Thank you so much, Congressman. I appreciate your time.
I want to go straight now to Anna Gomez because she is a commissioner, the Federal Communications Commission, who was appointed by President Biden.
And, Commissioner Gomez, let me just ask you what you even know about all of this from your position, what do you even know about how all this happened? Brendan Carr going on that podcast, what can you tell us?
ANNA GOMEZ, FCC COMMISSIONER: Yeah, well, I know probably as much, if not less than what you do. I understand that, there was a podcast and there was the opinion that, that broadcasters should not broadcast these types of jokes which, you know, let me -- let me just say this, an inexcusable act of political violence by one disturbed individual must never be exploited as justification for broader censorship or control.
And what you're seeing here is this administration is increasingly using the weight of government power to suppress lawful expression, not because it glorifies violence or breaks the law, but because it challenges those in power and reflects views they oppose.
BURNETT: All right. So, Anna, let me just try to break this down a little bit because you're sitting here obviously as somebody who, you know, you're a commissioner of the FCC, right? You work with Brendan Carr.
So, he goes out on this podcast. Okay? And he says something very specific. I'm just going to play again, the explicit threat that was made. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARR: Any license granted by us at the FCC, and that comes with it, an obligation to operate in the public interest. But frankly, when you see stuff like this, I mean, look, we can do this the easy way or the hard way. These companies can find ways to change conduct, to take action, frankly, on Kimmel or, you know, there's going to be additional work for the FCC ahead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: The easy way or the hard way. Right. That's there's no -- frankly, obviously, there's no even attempt at ambiguity here, right? It's just a blatant bald direct threat. What do you say? What do you say to that? What do you say to Brendan Carr? I mean, he's your colleague.
You guys are on the FCC together. You work with him. He went out and said this.
GOMEZ: So I think we really need to make very clear that the First Amendment does not allow us, the FCC, to tell broadcasters what they can broadcast.
Personally, I'd rather not speak ill of the dead, but I understand Jimmy Kimmel is a satirist and a comedian. I saw the clip. He did not make any unfounded claims, but he did make a joke, one that others may even find crude.
But that is neither illegal nor grounds for companies to capitulate to this administration in ways that violate the first amendment. And we must be careful not to allow the government to punish critics simply because of content. This sets a dangerous new precedent, and companies must stand firm against any efforts to trade away First Amendment freedoms.
BURNETT: So. So, anna, when Brendan Carr goes out and said, the FCC, you know that we can do this the easy way or the hard way and talks about revoking broadcast licenses. Okay? For people out there who don't understand the machinations of the FCC and exactly how it works, if ABC had not caved and had kept Jimmy Kimmel on the air, and Brendan Carr went ahead and actually went forward to do this, to try to revoke a broadcast license for ABC, goes to the FCC.
You're a sitting member. You are there. There are others. What actually would happen?
GOMEZ: So the FCC does not have the ability to revoke licenses just because we don't like what is being said on a particular broadcast, especially by a satirist like Jimmy Kimmel. So I don't think this commission could have legally revoked a license based on this particular episode.
What we keep hearing by this administration is that broadcasters have to serve the public interest, and it's undefined what we mean by the public interest. It is true that we have a public interest obligation to serve communities, but it doesn't mean that anything we don't like is against the public interest.
And what I think we need to do as a commission is we need to issue a rulemaking where we say here is specifically what we mean by serving the public interest, because just saying it's against the public interest, because we don't like particularly particular content is not enough.
BURNETT: Yeah.
(CROSSTALK)
GOMEZ: And it's important to note we don't have -- I'm sorry. We don't have an exception to the --
BURNETT: Finish your point.
GOMEZ: I was going to say we don't have an exception to the First Amendment for broadcast licensees. They are still -- they are still protected by our First Amendment. And free expression is non- negotiable. It marks the line between freedom and oppression, and we must defend it without compromise.
BURNETT: So, Anna, I just want to I wanted to ask you about Brendan Carr here, but Brian Stelter, my colleague, he was just on a moment ago. I don't -- I don't know if you heard him, but talking about this news actually asked Brendan Carr for comment on these developments.
And Brendan Carr responded to Brian Stelter, I'll show you what he did. He sent him back a meme from the TV show "The Office" of the show character celebrating. Okay, so that just came from the commissioner of the FCC, Brendan Carr, a meme -- I don't know if you can see it, Anna, that that's his response to this.
GOMEZ: I don't think we should be celebrating violating our First Amendment rights and weakening our democracy.
BURNETT: So, Anna, what -- what can you do about it? Again, to try to explain to us what happens in the FCC. Wait a minute.
Brendan Carr has made it clear where he stands. He put out a threat. He got an outcome that he now puts out a meme from "The Office" celebrating, and he's not going anywhere.
[19:30:06]
What is -- what -- what do you do about it?
GOMEZ: So, what I am doing is I am doing whatever I can to use my position, my position to call attention to this, this administration's campaign of censorship and control. It is what I can do. I can use my platform to tell people that we need to protect our democracy and freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of association, all of that is -- is there for a reason. And it is an important foundation for our democracy. And we must speak up and push back.
BURNETT: All right. Anna, thank you very much. I appreciate your time, Anna Gomez, as I said, is a sitting current commissioner of the FCC, along with Brendan Carr.
All right. Up next, our breaking news coverage is going to continue on this breaking news. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer will be with me to talk about this breaking news of ABC deciding to pull Jimmy Kimmel off the air after the FCC threatened about comments Kimmel made on Charlie Kirk.
Plus, the sheriff, who was key to getting Charlie Kirk's alleged killer to surrender, is revealing new details about how it happened, including the Tyler Robinson was in the woods and suicidal, and that sheriff will be OUTFRONT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:35:52]
BURNETT: All right. We're back with our breaking news this hour. And that is that Jimmy Kimmel's late night talk show has been pulled off the air indefinitely. And the context of this, of course, is everything. It came hours after the Trump aligned chairman of the FCC threatened to take action against ABC and its parent company, Disney, over these comments by Kimmel two nights ago about the motive of the Charlie Kirk shooter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIMMEL: We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them, and doing everything they can to score political points from it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And then Brendan Carr went on that right wing podcast and said that Jimmy Kimmel is a problem and that they could do this the easy way or the hard way. And then within hours, Jimmy Kimmel put on indefinite leave by ABC.
OUTFRONT now is Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer.
Senator Schumer, your reaction to this?
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): It is outrageous. It's a page right out of Xi's playbook. This is just despicable, disgusting and against democratic values. Trump and his allies seem to want to shut down speech that they don't like to hear. That is not what democracies do. That is what autocracies do.
And it doesn't matter whether you agree with Kimmel or not. He has the right to free speech. And so, it is just outrageous. It is indicative of autocracy. And I am just outraged by it.
Again, this is what dictators do. This is what she would do. This is what Putin would do. We are not that country.
BURNETT: Well, I want to read to you, senator, what President Trump's son, Don Jr., just posted. He just posted a quote. I'll read it to you. They're not losing their jobs to cancel culture. They're losing them to consequence culture. Consequences and accountability are something Democrats haven't had to face in a long time. What's your response to that?
SCHUMER: He has no understanding of what he has no understanding of what free speech is all about. It's not whether you agree or disagree with what the person said, they have a right to say it. They have a right to say it on ABC. They have a right to say it in newspapers. They have a right to say it to their friends and families.
And this puts this country in a -- in a road that could go to autocracy if this keeps going. What democracies have been known for, what our Founding Fathers and our country has been proudest of is we are a bastion of free speech, and they're trying to shut it down simply because they don't like what the person said. That is outrageous.
BURNETT: It also, and again, as I've been clear throughout the program, to say, you know, what he said should not necessarily be the point, but what he said was to speculate about what side of the political spectrum the shooter came from. Right? It was not something to celebrate the killing in any way. Actually, when the -- when the -- when the horrible assassination happened, he came out and spoke about it.
So, Senator, what can you do about it?
You -- I know you probably just plugged in, but I was talking to Anna Gomez, who's also a current commissioner at the FCC. Brendan Carr, of course, is the chairman and was asking her what could be done even within the FCC itself. And she said, well, you know, that she would come out and she would speak out for freedom of speech, for the First Amendment. That's what she would do, right?
So, it just raises the question to me about what really can be done. Is there anything --
SCHUMER: Well --
BURNETT: -- explicit and specific that can be done, Senator?
SCHUMER: The bottom line is this that first, when things like this happen, everybody from all sides ought to speak out against it. We ought to have conservative Republicans speak out against it.
But second, the courts have always defended free speech. Let's see if they step up to the plate, because I'm sure there will be lawsuits about this, and there ought to be right away. BURNETT : Well, it comes in the context of the political division in this country, Senator, as you know, at a crisis level, and we're facing another possible government shutdown, which in all of this gets buried under it, but is at the heart of this divide. Democrats and Republicans dug in.
[19:40:00]
One Democratic senator, John Fetterman of Pennsylvania, came out and specifically said in this moment, after Charlie Kirk's assassination, he is going to buck your party, Senator. He's going to support the GOP funding bill. And I wanted to play exactly what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): I would never, ever hold the government open as a hostage, saying, if you don't do this, then I refuse to keep our government open. That's our -- look, I mean, we were just talking about what happened to Kirk's. Our country's not right now where we need more of that kind of chaos to shut the government down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHUMER: Look, the bottom line is very simple, Erin.
For weeks and months, we have been saying to our Republican colleagues, simply sit down and talk to us and negotiate with us. That's how these budget bills have always been done. And we didn't understand. Weve been asking since late July. Thune, Johnson, sit down with us. We have a different view of what should be funded. And then you do.
But the bottom line is we didn't understand that until last week when Trump came out and said, don't negotiate with Democrats, don't include Democrats. We don't need them.
Well, Trump either doesn't know how to count or doesn't understand the Senate because you need 60 votes. They have 53.
We Democrats have now put out our proposal. Their proposal is status quo. The Americans are not happy. American people are not happy with that status quo. And what our bill says is control, rising costs, which American people hate. Fix health care, which the Republican Big, Beautiful Bill decimated.
And the American people, I believe, will side with us because we are on their side. The Republican bill is not.
But at the very minimum, negotiate. How can you put out a bill with no Democratic input and say that that that's that? Well, we're not saying "that's that".
And the bottom line is very simple. Donald Trump, aided and abetted by Thune and Johnson, are putting us on the road to a shutdown because they won't even sit down and talk with us.
BURNETT: Senator Schumer, thank you very much. I appreciate your time tonight.
SCHUMER: Thank you, Erin.
BURNETT: I want to go now to Andrew Yang and David Frum, both with us in an important moment.
Andrew, this is an important moment. And, you know, there are times when -- you know, you feel things are changing and there are things to be concerned about. And then there are times when you are faced with a hard reality. And this is -- this is that moment.
ANDREW YANG, INDEPENDENT, FORMER DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I was on Jimmy Kimmel's show during the 2020 presidential cycle. I very fond memories. We compared notes about playing Ted Cruz in basketball. It was that kind of atmosphere.
And now seeing him potentially come off the air in this fashion, it's really jarring to say the least. I will say, though, that from some of the earlier commentators characterizing him on one hand as a news personality, which I don't think Jimmy was. I mean, Jimmy was a --
BURNETT: He's an entertainer. He's a satirist. He's a comedian.
YANG: Yes. And he clearly has a political point of view --
BURNETT: Yeah.
YANG: -- and well-known hostility with this administration. But my sense of the order of events was that there was an owner of ABC affiliates, Nexstar, who said, look, were going to preempt this show. And then ABC had a choice and say, okay, are we going to get in a food fight with some of our affiliates and say, we're going to stand by this host, or are we going to capitulate? And they chose to capitulate.
But I see this as a commercial decision. And there's a distinction between saying, look, First Amendment right news organization, which this was not in my opinion, this is an entertainer on a major platform. And the corporation said, look, this is not worth fighting, the administration or our affiliates.
BURNETT: Which is a pretty incredible thing to say, David Frum, because as Elizabeth Wagmeister, who's been breaking so much of this, was pointing out Jimmy Kimmel is the entertainment face of ABC, right? It' not just -- he's Jimmy Kimmel.
DAVID FRUM, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: There's only one thing that matters. There's only one thing that matters. We had a threat of retaliation by a government official for not -- for someone, not pronouncing government commanded speech.
There was an order from the state about what people must say. Jimmy Kimmel did not say that. And he and his corporation was threatened with consequences by a government official. This is not cancel culture because it's not culture. It's state repression. It's an order from the government. Here's the script you must read. If you do not read it, you will be
taken off the air. Jimmy Kimmel didn't read it. He was taken off the air.
I -- this cannot be -- because he's a comedian. There'll be people who say, maybe we shouldn't take this as seriously. But here's the question I would -- here's the comparison I would suggest.
When Paul Pelosi was brutally attacked, many unfortunately including the son of the former President Trump made light of it a terrible thing, heartbreaking, a terrible attack on an 82-year-old man. Imagine if the Biden administration had given a script and said, this is what everybody must say about Paul Pelosi.
[19:45:03]
And if you don't say it, we will bring pressure to bear on your parent corporation to fire you. Greg Gutfeld at Fox, you're not sad enough about Paul Pelosi. You're not saying what we command to be said about Paul Pelosi. Therefore, unless Fox fires it -- fires you, we are going to bring regulatory havoc to bear on the parent corporation.
That is what is going on here. It is -- it could not be more serious and no one should be at this moment saying, well, it's about business. It's not about business. It's about the state repressing speech where people don't say what the state commands to be said.
BURNETT: All right, both of you, please stay with me. We're going to take a break, but you're going to be with me on the other side, as our breaking news coverage continues. We are just getting in here. Some new details about what is next for Jimmy Kimmel. After his show was put on hold indefinitely.
So, we will come back with you with this news. We're just getting here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:50:31]
BURNETT: All right. Breaking news, the White House now has wasted no time in celebrating ABC pulling Jimmy Kimmel's late night show off the air indefinitely. It's rapid response account on Truth Social posting, and I quote, "They're doing their viewers a favor. Jimmy is a sick freak." That's from the White House rapid response team.
Ryan Goodman is OUTFRONT legal analyst. He's now with me. Andrew Yang and David Frum are also still here.
So, Ryan, when you now have had a few minutes here to digest this, to think about the implications, to think about what can be done. What happens here?
RYAN GOODMAN, JUST SECURITY CO-EDITOR-IN-CHIEF: So, ABC News has a very strong legal claim if they were to try to find some way to sue. This is a clear First Amendment violation. It's interesting to note that just last year, the Supreme Court decided a case in which the attorney general of Missouri and Louisiana, very conservative attorney generals, tried to bring to the Supreme Court the idea that the Biden White House was, pressuring social media companies as to what content they could, produce in terms of, like the White House saying, can you please stop doing disinformation or misinformation around COVID?
And the key for them was that they had to prove government coercion, and they couldn't because there was no statement really coming out of the Biden White House saying, if you don't do it, we'll do X. This is a clear statement of coercion. So, the law would look at this very unfavorably --
BURNETT: You're referring to Brendan Carr saying easy way or the hard way.
GOODMAN: Absolutely. That's the most -- one of the most coercive statements possible. It would be a golden piece of evidence for plaintiffs that would want to bring that kind of a case. It's -- I would think they would lose 7-2 or 9-0, the Trump administration, Brendan Carr, before the U.S. Supreme Court. It's just such a obvious violation of the First Amendment.
And just to think about it -- I mean, that's very conservative attorney general is bringing that case before the Supreme Court. They didn't have that kind of evidence. And were talking about an atmosphere in which the FCC is supposed to be independent of the president. But just within the last 24 hours, it's notable that President Trump said to ABC's Jonathan Karl, quote, I'd probably go after people like you. Maybe I'll come after ABC.
So, it seems like a concerted campaign in which Mr. Carr is in lockstep with the president.
BURNETT: Yeah, right. And that that that comment was obviously specifically about ABC.
So, David Frum, when you see the response from the White House, right? Do they say, Jimmy, I don't have the quote in front of me right this very second, but I believe everyone said Jimmy's a sick freak. Viewers -- doing viewers a favor or something -- something along that. I'll be -- there it is.
They're doing their viewers a favor. Jimmys a sick freak. That comes from the White House, David Frum, from the White House of the United States of America rapid response team.
Brendan Carr's response to our Brian Stelter when he asked him about all of this, was to send a meme of the office TV show where everybody celebrating. So that's the manner in which this is being handled.
FRUM: We don't have to speculate about what comes next, because President Trump and his televised speech after the assassination of Charlie and his aide, Stephen Miller, have already told us what is coming next. And we -- they previewed it back in April. What is coming next is a crackdown on Democratic Party fundraising. They -- President Trump said, we are going to go after those who raise
funds for causes we don't like. Stephen Miller said that even more emphatically. In April of this past year, Donald Trump, at his personal command, ordered his Department of Justice, an astonishing thing for president to do to investigate the Democratic Party's small dollar donation platform at ActBlue.
The attack on Democratic Party fundraising is coming next. The suppression of Democratic Party speech is coming next.
Look, Donald Trump has maliciously attacked the standards of living of ordinary Americans with his tariffs. He's enormously corrupt. He's taking billions of dollars in meme coins and other kind of crypto coins. He cannot afford a free and fair election in 2026.
And what he thinks about every moment of the day is how do I head off a free and fair election in 2026? And what is happening now is part of a hastily developed strategy to seize this opportunity created by this terrible tragedy --
BURNETT: Yeah.
FRUMP: -- afflicting a family, afflicting many people admired him, to make political competition in the United States unfree and unfair.
BURNETT: And it is clear, Andrew Yang, that from what Ryan just laid out, that Trump said what he said about ABC the other day. Brendan Carr said what he said.
[19:55:03]
Their responses are to celebrate. But Trump also actually spoke out about Jimmy Kimmel. After Colbert Show went away, he chose to speak about Kimmel. He said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Kimmel has no talent. They're next. They're going to be going. I hear they're going to be going.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: They're next. Again, there's no ambiguity.
YANG: I've always seen Trump as an accelerant to the disintegration of various institutions. And Jimmy Kimmel is an institution. You know, everything kind of exists in rivalry with Trump, particularly if it commands a big audience and attention. And unfortunately, he has had it out for Jimmy. It's a sad day that we've gotten to this juncture, but unfortunately, I agree with David that in many ways, this is predictable.
BURNETT: Well, and I think that's the sad thing in a sense. I guess all of you would say it's predictable and yet somehow it is stunning. And it is at the same moment, something shocking. Even though, perhaps shocking but not surprising.
All of you, thank you very much. Yeah?
FRUM: You must never lose your ability to be shocked.
BURNETT: No.
FRUMP: Must never lose your ability to be shocked. That's a resource for dictators when we lose our ability to be shocked.
BURNETT: Thank you very much, all of you.
And our breaking news coverage continues. We do have some new details just coming in about Jimmy Kimmel's future at ABC. Elizabeth Wagmeister breaking all of this. She's with me after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: And back with our breaking news, Jimmy Kimmel show pulled off the air indefinitely amid controversy for suggesting in a monologue that the suspected killer of Charlie Kirk might have been a pro-Trump Republican.
Elizabeth Wagmeister is back with us.
And, Elizabeth, you've been breaking news on this throughout the night, and I know you've got new information. What have you found out?
WAGMEISTER: Yes. So, a source close to the situation tells me that this is not a cancellation at the moment, but there is no timeline for the show to come back. As we know. ABC said officially in their statement that this is preempted indefinitely. But I have to tell you, Erin, my phone is blowing up.
People in the industry are absolutely shocked over this. And many people saying that even though it's not a cancellation at this moment, it's hard to imagine the show coming back.
This is not about one comment about Charlie Kirk's killer. This is a decade of Jimmy Kimmel bashing Trump. They've been going back and forth for years. So, it's really hard to imagine Trump rolling out the red carpet and saying, hey, you've taken a break.
Why don't -- why don't you come back on the air? So that's where things stand right now. But people just really shocked in Hollywood, Erin.
BURNETT: Yeah, really shocked in Hollywood. And I would imagine anyone across the country shocked by a development like this in this country.
Elizabeth, thank you so much for all of your reporting.
And thanks to all of you for being with us.
"AC360" starts now.
