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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump Threatens More Networks; Protests At ABC; Epstein Haunts Trump. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired September 18, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:29]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
The breaking news, new images of Jimmy Kimmel just in, as Trump intensifies his crackdown on critics, threatening to pull the broadcast licenses of more networks.
Plus, breaking news, protests outside ABC after Kimmel's show was pulled indefinitely, as we are hearing from some Republicans that they believe Trump crossed the line.
And Trump cannot escape the Epstein scandal. Joe Rogan today asking Trump, what the F is wrong with you?
Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news. We have new images just in of Jimmy Kimmel less than 24 hours after his show was suddenly pulled from ABC after a threat from Trump's administration.
And tonight, Trump making it clear he is not done. The president is now threatening more networks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They give me only bad publicity, the press. I mean, they're getting a license. I would think maybe their license should be taken away. It will be up to Brendan Carr.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: He mentioned Brendan Carr. We're going to hear in a moment from another FCC commissioner who serves with Carr. She says the FCC doesn't have the authority to do this, but the harsh reality tonight is that they didn't actually even need the authority to get Trump what he wanted, silencing comedian Jimmy Kimmel.
If you are surprised at what has happened, maybe it is because you took the president, the vice president and the chairman of the FCC at their word when Trump came into office.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If you don't have free speech, you don't have a country.
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank God we have a president now who believes in free speech.
BRENDAN CARR, FCC CHAIR: Free speech, diversity of opinion, those are the bedrocks of democracy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT : That last person to speak, of course, was Brendan Carr, the very same man who made this threat this week after Kimmel's comments regarding Charlie Kirk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARR: Any license granted by us at the FCC, and that comes with it an obligation to operate in the public interest. But frankly, when you see stuff like this -- I mean, look, we can do this the easy way or the hard way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Threats obviously don't get more clear than that. And that threat is a real about face from a man, Brendan Carr, who in December of 2023 wrote, and I want to quote him, free speech is the counterweight. It is the check on government control. That is why censorship is the authoritarian's dream.
Okay, so then what sparked Carr's sudden threat against ABC over Kimmel? It was this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY KIMMEL, TALK SHOW HOST: We hit some new lows over the weekend, with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them, and doing everything they can to score political points from it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So that's what it was from what Carr was saying. That's what it was that Kimmel said that was worth a threat to ABC, get rid of Kimmel, or else. And sure, free speech is free speech. This is America. But Kimmel's words aren't some hate filled diatribe. They're frankly, not even this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: Now you go in for the kill shot. The kill shot with an ambush, deadly, because he doesn't see it coming. This is when you say, Dr. Fauci, you funded risky research at a sloppy Chinese lab. The same lab that sprung this pandemic on the world. You know why people don't trust you, don't you?
Boom! He is dead. He is dead. He's done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: That was Fox's Jesse Watters in December 2021, trying to be funny. A month later, Watters got promoted.
And after the brutal attack on Nancy Pelosi's husband Paul, in which he was attacked by a man with a hammer, Pelosi's skull was fractured. He was in the hospital. There was a lot of really ugly rhetoric and conspiracy theories coming from the right at the time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At 82 years old, and comes home to find out that her husband is playing hide the hammer with a Black Lives Matter guy.
TUICKER CARLSON, FORMER FOX NEWS HOST: Well, you know, of course we can't confirm or deny your suggestion.
GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS HOST: It's MAGA extremist behind this because they always attract illegal alien nudists who live in school buses who think they're Jesus Christ. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) hell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And there was also Don Jr. He posted this image after Pelosi was attacked, "Got my Paul Pelosi Halloween costume ready," right? And you see the link there to the sexual jokes that you heard before.
And Elon Musk, two days after he bought Twitter, posted a conspiracy theory about the attack on Paul Pelosi, writing there is a tiny possibility there might be more to the story than meets the eye. He linked to an article that claimed the attack was the result of a drunken sexual encounter with a male prostitute.
Now, of course, none of this was based in fact. The government, though, didn't try to get people fired because, after all, free speech, tasteless, gross, crass, awful. So what? Free speech.
So, what is this silencing Kimmel all about? Because it's not about that one thing he said this week. It's not. I mean, after CBS announced it was canceling Stephen Colbert's show, Trump predicted Kimmel would be next. Quite simply, Trump has been a bit obsessed with Kimmel.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Kimmel has no talent.
Jimmy Kimmel is a loser.
I saw Jimmy Kimmel said that his show's practically dead, because nobody that likes Trump will watch.
Jimmy Kimmel, that guy is terrible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Those clips of Trump go back seven years, and tonight, Trump using the power of the office of the president of the United States, finally got what he wanted. And I want to start with Elizabeth Wagmeister in Los Angeles. She has been breaking so much news on the story.
And, Elizabeth, what is the latest you're learning tonight?
ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Erin. So I am hearing really how this went down at Disney and ABC and you know, everyone that I am talking to in Hollywood is really just horrified over this entire situation. They cannot believe that Jimmy Kimmel has been pulled off the air.
But what I am hearing is that ABC is very hopeful. They really want to figure out a path forward. They love Jimmy. They want Jimmy to come back. But with the threats from the FCC, this is a real threat to have stations that are pulling Jimmy show across the country. They just felt like they had no choice. That in order to protect both Jimmy and the ABC brand, that they felt the best path forward was to preempt the show indefinitely.
Now I am hearing that the decision ultimately was made by Bob Iger and Dana Walden. I hear that Dana Walden has a great relationship that goes way back with Jimmy Kimmel. She was the one who made that call to him. Now, after Jimmy's comments on Monday and Tuesday during his show, we're getting heat from the right. That is when this got onto Disney's radar.
But again, it was when Brendan Carr started to make those remarks and making threats against ABC. And it is when Nexstar started to say we are refusing to air the show, that this really escalated and became a major issue. One source explained to me that this is much bigger than just Jimmy Kimmel show, that this is about all of ABC and really protecting all of ABC and all of its employees.
Now, I do want to note, Erin, you said that this is not just about those comments, and that is what I am hearing. In fact, I will finish on this final point. Trump took to his Truth Social today, and I believe we have that post and he actually went all the way back to the Oscars from two years ago when Jimmy Kimmel made a joke about him on stage and Trump seized on that.
So, this is a long-standing history of jabs in a public feud between Trump and Jimmy Kimmel. Everyone that I'm talking to in Hollywood said it's not just about the comments this week, it's about years and years of insults -- Erin.
BURNETT: Elizabeth, thank you so much.
OUTFRONT now, FCC Commissioner Anna Gomez..
And, Commissioner, I appreciate your time.
So, President Trump today comes out. You heard him. He suggests that networks licenses, you know, their right to broadcast over the air could be pulled and revoked if they air mostly negative coverage of him. So, if he comes out and says five untrue things and they call out three of them, then that's on them. I mean, it's unclear exactly what he's saying, but he did say it will be up to Brendan Carr. Obviously, chairman of the FCC.
Is this something the FCC could actually do?
ANNA GOMEZ, FCC COMMISSIONER: Well, first of all, we don't license the networks. We license local broadcasters. So, there is no license to pull for the networks. The local broadcasters get some programing from the networks.
But second of all, we are governed by the First Amendment and by the Communications Act, which prohibits us from censoring broadcasters.
[19:10:03]
So no, we cannot pull local broadcasters' licenses simply because they air content that he does not like.
BURNETT: Okay. So, then I guess the question is where do we go from here? I mean, have you spoken with Carr since last night?
GOMEZ: I've been in New York today. As you know. The thing that we need to understand is that the FCC cannot -- it does not have the authority. It does not have the ability. It does not have the constitutional right to take action against broadcasters, because the administration doesn't like what they're saying, because they don't like anyone that pushes back against them.
So, what you see are just threats, but the threats are the point.
BURNETT: And the threat in this case, the threats worked, right? Do it the easy way or the hard way or, you know, I guess the sensible threat is we're not going to approve your merger at the FCC.
GOMEZ: That's exactly the point, because we don't have the authority to do this because it's against the law, we would not be able to actually take that final action because on appeal, the FCC would be wrong on the facts and the law, if in fact, it retaliated against the networks. I mean, the broadcasters, the local licensees, because of what they air.
So, the threats are the point and the capitulation is so disappointing because what we are doing is eroding little by little, the freedom of the press, the freedom of speech on which our democracy relies. We need the fourth estate to push back against the likes of me, to hold me and the government to account.
BURNETT: All right. And just one more point to make here. One of the companies that owns a lot of the ABC affiliates, of course, that said they would pull Kimmel show, one of the local broadcasters, Nexstar, and they are in the middle of trying to buy another company, a merger which would get a lot of FCC scrutiny because it would provide a lot of consolidation within certain media markets. So that's important. Paramount settled that lawsuit brought by Trump
and received FCC approval for its sale to Skydance. By the way, Paramount did several other things to assuage Trump to get that deal done.
Are these, in your view, example after example of quid pro quo?
GOMEZ: It is inappropriate for the FCC to demand concessions that have nothing to do with whether a transaction is actually in the public interest. If it doesn't actually have any harms that are raised, then we should not be demanding things that are extraneous.
So, you raise Skydance, for example, this FCC has demanded that any party that has a transaction before it eliminate all its diversity, equity and inclusion programs. That has nothing to do with the harm of a particular merger, for example.
And with Skydance also, Paramount agreed to appoint an ombudsman. I call it a truth ombudsman. And that person's role is to report directly to the president of Paramount and wield any complaints against the network for its content.
It is inappropriate for the FCC to force a company to self-censor if it wants to get a transaction. It is simply not appropriate.
BURNETT: And I hear your frustration. I guess I come back to this, but it happened. It happened with Skydance, and it apparently had just happened with ABC and Nexstar. So it's happening. Can anything be done to stop it?
GOMEZ: This is the problem with corporate capitulation. Unless the commission actually directly requires it, there is no ability to go to court and to get it overturned. These are parties that are very cowardly, capitulating before they're even required to do something. And that is what we're seeing again and again. ABC capitulated, Disney capitulated. Paramount capitulated. We need courage, not capitulation.
BURNETT: Commissioner Gomez, thank you so much. I appreciate your time.
GOMEZ: Thank you.
BURNETT: And OUTFRONT now, Terry Moran, he worked at ABC as a correspondent for 28 years. He was dropped by the network after an online post calling Trump and Stephen Miller, quote/unquote, world class haters.
So, Terry, I -- there's a lot I want to ask you about in the context of what's happening right now, in the context of what Mr. Gomez just said.
So, your former employer puts Jimmy Kimmel off the air indefinitely after an explicit threat from the FCC chairman as an important merger is pending, that that chairman would have to approve.
Now, Trump is threatening today to take away network licenses. I'm saying plural because he's saying who else, right. He's going to other networks. Where is this headed, do you think terry?
[19:15:01]
TERRY MORAN, VETERAN REPORTER FIRED BY ABC NEWS AFTER CALLING TRUMP, WH AIDE "HATERS": Well, if it ever gets to court, Anna Gomez was a great interview is absolutely right. We don't have a country where the government, simply because they issue broadcast licenses, can tell comedians what joke they can tell, what joke they can't tell, or news organizations what story they should publish or not.
This does not come with the authority of broadcast licenses. And that law is almost 100 years old. And the Supreme Court has interpreted it as strictly under the First Amendment for 80 years.
So, she's right. What we have learned is that the corporations will knuckle under every time the dollar is more important than free speech.
BURNETT: They -- I mean, and I guess you're making the point, right? In the cases we were just talking right about Skydance, we're talking about ABC now, right to the point that you're making. The FCC didn't have to go ahead and make good on that threat the easy way or the hard way, right? It was -- it was done before it even got to that point.
MORAN: Terry, I know -- I've talked to you about your interview with President Trump back in April. At that time, you asked him directly whether he was using his presidential powers to seek revenge against his critics. So, at the time, the context for this, as you remember well, right, was about law firms that law firms connected to Democrats were capitulating to Trump on a variety of policies on what pro bono work they would do on a whole variety of donations, all sorts of things. All right?
Now, just to remind everybody watching. So that puts it in context for them. So here's some of the exchange you have with the president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: These are the biggest, most powerful lawyers. These are not --
MORAN: You got a lot of leverage --
(CROSSTALK)
MORAN: -- as president, you've got all the cards.
TRUMP: They paid hundreds of millions of dollars because they felt -- I guess they probably felt they did something wrong.
MORAN: It was for survival, sir. You were crushing their business.
TRUMP: No, these firms are very powerful firms.
MORAN: Are you using your powers as president to get personal revenge? TRUMP: No. I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what you should not.
You're really not asking. And you should be asking. There has never been a president in this country in the history that was persecuted like I was persecuted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So, the conversation could be applied to the current situation, right? Now, it's a different set of players, but it's a similar question, right. Are you using your powers as president to get personal revenge?
So, what happens, Terry, if media companies don't stand up to Trump? And obviously, there has a precedent. There has a precedent has now been set. And it's not just with these two mergers, right. It's with legal settlements that have been made as other examples.
MORAN: Well, that's the question. I mean, if the corporations knuckle under, which they clearly are, to let's make it clear, these are empty threats, right? Brendan Carr sounding like a cheap hoodlum says, you know, you can do it the hard way. You can do it the easy way.
You know, that's just -- he can say that as soon as it got into a court, the First Amendment would destroy that claim of power. Same with President Trump's threats. Nevertheless, the corporations and major institutions across the board are simply surrendering to Trump. And so, it never gets to court, as Anna Gomez pointed out, that means it's up to us.
That means these freedoms, these rights that we've taken for granted. What president would have ever thought he could dictate to a broadcaster or a comedian what they could or could not say. This is what every petty autocrat in history wants, that their wishes, their whims, their resentments, their angers become the law. Not here, not in America.
BURNETT: So I know, terry, you have said you do not have regrets about the post you wrote on X and just reminding everybody that was. This is what led to you losing your job at ABC back in June.
All right. Context here. You said Stephen Miller is a, quote, man who is richly endowed with the capacity for hatred. He's a world class hater. Trump is a world class hater, but his hatred is only a means to an end. And that end is his own glorification.
Thats his spiritual nourishment. Now, you posted that just after midnight and the following morning, Vice President Vance came out. He said ABC should apologize to Stephen. Karoline Leavitt came out and said, we've reached out to ABC to inquire about how they plan to hold Terry accountable. You get suspended two days later. ABC says they're not going to renew your contract.
Terry, do you think that ABC would have let you go, gone to that level here had the White House not said those things?
MORAN: You know, that's a what-if question. As I -- as I've said before on this, it's their company, their policies. They can do what they want. But I seriously doubt it. They knuckled under to pressure.
Look, did I know it was hot? Yes. Did I think it was truthful, fair and accurate? You bet. I've got no regrets about it.
But I knew I've been in trouble before for various social media posts and for things I've said, and I have no problem with that. That's what we're supposed to do is challenge people.
[19:20:01]
I think the biggest challenge before every reporter and before every citizen right now is to see what is happening for real, in front of us and say it's name. And I think a lot of people and a lot of positions of authority at these news divisions and corporations cannot do that. And that's one of the reasons we're in this -- in this trouble.
BURNETT: Terry, I really appreciate having the opportunity to talk to you. Thank you so much.
MORAN: You bet.
BURNETT: Terry Moran, as I said, spent nearly 30 years working at ABC.
And next, we have breaking news. House Republicans just blocking an effort to subpoena the FCC chairman over his threats to take action against ABC.
Plus, former late night host David Letterman speaking out tonight about Kimmel's suspension.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID LETTERMAN, LATE NIGHT HOST: And you can't go around firing somebody because you're fearful or trying to suck up to an authoritarian criminal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And Bloomberg reporting that Trump's treasury secretary did something that the Trump administration has said warrants a criminal investigation when done by others.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:25:17]
BURNETT: Breaking news, House Republicans just blocking Democrats from sending a subpoena to FCC Chairman Brendan Carr over ABC's suspension of Jimmy Kimmel. Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna, who fought for the subpoena, claims the Trump administration is making comedy illegal. And moments ago, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton spoke on Kimmel's suspension to our own Fareed Zakaria.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: I had no idea when I was in public life and listening to the jokes that were made about me and the attacks that were, you know, coming from people like Jimmy Kimmel and others that I could have called up the head of the FCC and said, take them off the air.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Making a joke of it or trying to, in the sense of it.
Manu Raju is OUTFRONT on Capitol Hill.
And, Manu, you have been talking to a lot of lawmakers. And, you know, just to be clear here, after the horrific assassination of Charlie Kirk, there were some Republicans, people like Ted Cruz, who spoke out very clearly that even if speech is hateful, it is free and must be allowed.
In this current moment with what we are seeing with Jimmy Kimmel, what are you hearing from Republicans? Are any of those who stand up for free speech, standing up for it now?
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, just like so much in the Trump era, this reaction today has been mostly along party lines. We've heard mostly the outrage coming from Democrats warning of censorship and the infringement on the First Amendment. We've had some Republicans raise some concerns about this, but by and large, many of them contending that this was simply, they say, a business decision.
And when I asked them about the threats and the warnings coming from Trump's FCC, chairman Trump appointed FCC chairman about potential broadcast license being revoked if action was not taken at ABC. Some of them shrugged it off or said they weren't aware of it altogether.
Some, like Senator Josh Hawley said he was fine with the ultimate outcome, which was Jimmy Kimmel off the air.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): Well, this isn't the government, Manu. This is -- this is Disney, ABC.
RAJU: Well, the FCC was threatening taking action against ABC. Brendan Carr was out publicly warning --
HAWLEY: One FCC guy.
RAJU: He's the chairman.
Is the right dabbling in cancel culture?
HAWLEY: Not this guy on the right. I mean, I just -- I just said he's entitled under the First Amendment to say what he wants. But on the other hand, I applaud the move of Disney, his corporate parent, to say we think this is terrible. REP. KEVIN KILLEY (R-CA): I think that, if government authority is
being used in a way that that chills speech that is -- can be problematic. If you're committed to free speech, you should be committed to free speech across the board.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: But by and large, that that comment came from Kevin Kiley. He's a swing district Republican. But by and large, though, Erin, the response from Republican leaders has been to align themselves very much with Donald Trump, including the speaker of the house, Mike Johnson, who had no issues with this whatsoever, despite himself fighting against what he considered cancel culture in the Biden administration -- Erin.
BURNETT: Manu, thank you very much. And it will be interesting to see you if even having a swing district Republican say what he said is, is something amiss?
Jamal Simmons is with me. Doug Heye is with me.
And, Jamal, let me start with you because you heard -- what you heard from Manu, right? You heard from that swing state Republican obviously saying free speech is free speech, but that is not what most Republicans he spoke with said they were defending it and saying, well, oh, well, since ABC did it, I guess who cares if it was because they were threatened, because they actually did it? Let's just move along here. What do you say to them?
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's hypocrisy. It's hypocrisy.
You know, the Democrats have put out a video on Instagram. I think people should take a look at. It often promote what the Democrats are up to. But on this one, they sort of did it the right way.
It's just the words of Donald Trump and the words of J.D. Vance and the words of Pete Hegseth, all talking about protecting free speech. Elon Musk said, let's legalize comedy and then said, you know, we need to make sure people the point of free speech is to make sure people are saying things is free speech. We know they say things that we don't like.
Those are the -- those are the kind of comments and sentiments I think most Americans agree with. We've kind of settled this legally for a long time. It's just disturbing that the president and the FCC chair have decided that that's no longer true.
BURNETT: I mean, to the point of where this applies and the slippery slope, Doug, let me just play, again, the core part of what Kimmel said, that that drew the specific outrage from Carr. Let me play it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIMMEL: The MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them and doing everything they can to score political points from it.
[19:30:02]
In between the finger pointing, there was grieving.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Okay, so that was Jimmy Kimmel, obviously, the other day. Doug, when the Minnesota House speaker, Melissa Hortman, was assassinated, shot and killed in the dark of night by someone posing as a police officer, Donald Trump, Jr. said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, JR., SON OF PRESIDENT TRUMP: The guy that committed those atrocities this weekend is a Democrat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now, according to the court filings, the Minnesota gunman had a list of Minnesota public officials. Democrats mostly are all Democrats.
I mean, look, I guess in a sense, Doug, it's kind of a ridiculous conversation to even have. But yet here we are, right? Why are either one of those things wrong for them to say.
DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, I think ultimately what we should try and do is -- I'll go back, Erin, to when I worked at the Republican National Committee on a Saturday morning in January of 2021, I received a text message that Gabby Giffords had been shot, and I was at the Republican National Committee. Obviously, she was a Democrat. I went to my office and got on a conference call with colleagues from Mitch McConnell's office, John Boehners office. And what we did is we had a very serious and sober, somber conversation holding a mirror up to ourselves.
How are we going to be responsible in this moment? How can we respond in the most responsible way possible and make sure that we set that signal for other House and Senate Republican offices? My guess is whether you're talking Republican or Democrat these days, depending on what happens and to whom, those things don't happen. And when I see the news of the past few days now, I'm reminded of that more than one thing can be true at the same time, that the chair of the FCC or anybody from government trying to shut down speech because they don't' like it is dangerous and un-American.
But also, that in a moment that we're in right now, if you try and score political points as a late night comedian, that's going to bring a real reaction and potentially, as we've now seen, consequences. And I say that because, Erin, you mentioned David Letterman earlier, you're going to obviously talk about him in a little bit.
BURNETT: Yeah.
HEYE: Jimmy Kimmel is emulated himself on being like David letterman. David Letterman's response to 9/11 was one of confusion and anger and compassion, and something that brought the -- brought the country together.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: As was Jimmy Kimmel on the day that Charlie Kirk was --
HEYE: -- attacking George W. Bush's government.
BURNETT: No, but as was Jimmy Kimmel on the day that Charlie Kirk was shot.
I mean, look, Doug, I'm not trying to relitigate everything that he said, but coming out and speculating, there was actually a lot of speculation about where what political spectrum the gunman came from. All of that, as the facts started to come out, right? And I'm trying to understand why is it so hateful to even weigh in on that? And he is a comedian, right? He's not coming out and reporting the news on the very latest that's known.
HEYE: Yeah, I think -- I bring up the Gabby Giffords example because we were holding up a mirror to ourselves. And in politics today, what we see is people holding up mirrors to their political opponents and saying, you're wrong.
When Steve -- when Steve Scalise was shot, I wrote a piece for CNN saying, we all need to do a better job in political rhetoric. And what I heard so often, Republicans and Democrats are saying, I don't need to do a better job. You need to do a better job. And here we are.
BURNETT: Yes. And I would hope everyone could agree with that.
Yeah. Go ahead, Jamal.
SIMMONS: Erin, here's what bothers me about the not just this conversation, but also the way that the administration is trending. It's -- the censorship seems to be showing up in a variety of places.
You know, when Confederate statues were up in front of many of the many of the statehouses, many Democrats and progressives said, take them down, but not get rid of them. Not let's talk -- not talk about the Confederacy. Let's move them somewhere. Let's not have an honor. Let's not honor the Confederacy, right?
But now we know the president of the United States has ordered the National Park Service to start going through and scrubbing images of slavery. And what happened with native Americans from public places. So, we're not having an argument about how we talk about our history. We're having an argument about whether we talk about hard parts of our history.
And that's what has me concerned about this particular conversation. At some point, you know, we are going to have to have a conversation again about the ideas that were being put forth at Turning Point USA. And when we have a conversation about that, it's not whether or not we talk about it, but how we talk about it is going to be incredibly important.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you both very much. I do appreciate talking to both of you always. You both know that.
And next, does Jimmy Kimmel have any legal recourse? Former Trump White House attorney Ty Cobb will be with us next.
And Trump making this claim tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You know, we've already solved inflation. We've solved prices.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: That is not what Jerome Powell is saying. The whiteboard, Einstein and Ives are ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:38:51]
BURNETT: Breaking news, late night legend David Letterman blasting the Trump administration tonight, calling it criminal and authoritarian. After ABC's decision to pull Jimmy Kimmel off the air.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LETTERMAN: We all see where this is going. Correct? It's managed media. And it's no good. It's silly. It's ridiculous. And you can't go around firing somebody because you're fearful or trying to suck up to an authoritarian criminal administration in the Oval Office. That's just not how this works.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OUTFRONT now, former Trump White House lawyer Ty Cobb.
So, Ty, Letterman saying Trump is acting like an authoritarian regime in the context of what's just happened here. What do you say?
TY COBB, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE LAWYER: Well, I say he's right. I mean, you know, keep in mind that Trump's idol, Vladimir Putin, when he took over in Russia in the early 2000s, one of the first things he did was to systematically silence or co-opt critical media outlets. Independent TV stations were pressured, bought out or shut down. And if Trump has his way, you know, pretty soon, the only comedian on TV is going to be Karoline Leavitt.
[19:40:01]
BURNETT: If you look at the Supreme Court decision last year, there is -- there is precedent, it would appear at least. Let me ask you what you think. So they were unanimous in their decision.
COBB: Sure. BURNETT: They said, quote, government officials, Ty, cannot attempt to coerce private parties in order to publish or suppress views that the government disfavors. Now, that seems to be very applicable here.
So, I guess the real question would be if that is what indeed is happening, are there any consequences?
COBB: So, it's pretty nuanced. You know, that's absolutely the law. Of course, that's not what the chapter that Brendan Carr, the bully, chairman of the FCC who initiated all this, wrote in his chapter. And you know, 2025 project. But it is -- it is the law primarily, though limited to when it's a government actor.
Here you have, you know, a private actor being ABC, who took this action. Yes, they did it in response, clearly, to pressure that was threatened by Carr. But they also did it in response to threats from, you know, two of their larger, at least one, but perhaps two of their larger, owners of ABC affiliates.
And the law is murkier when you know, you have a private actor acting on things that might, impinge on free speech and violate the First Amendment. Because the First Amendment doesn't really directly apply to them. Now, there is a concept under California law called jawboning, which means if somebody gives in to a threat and the purpose was for everybody to -- or was to coerce private companies into impinging on the First Amendment, there might be there might be a path there.
But I think the likelihood is right now, Jimmy's limited to whatever his contract entitles him to in terms of whatever violations this this may constitute of that contract.
BURNETT: Which is a very important thing to say. And I also, just as a matter of fact, will point out, you know, there's affiliates, you know, trying to do a merger, which would require FCC approval, right? So, you know, their reasons for pulling it could have also, you know, it all may go back to the same -- the same source and the same opinion of the same individual.
I want to ask you, Ty --
COBB: Nexstar, I'm sorry. Go ahead.
BURNETT: Yeah. No, no, finish your thought.
COBB: Six point -- no, I was going to say, they have a six -- they have 6.2 billion reasons to, you know to want to curry favor with Carr.
BURNETT: Right, right. And the value of the deal as you put out there.
I want to ask you about one other thing, Ty, because, you know, in all of this, Trump was overseas and he was overseas surrounded by the Jeffrey Epstein investigation. Everybody saw obviously, those images which were put on the side of Windsor Castle. It was -- it followed him there.
And in his latest podcast, the conservative Joe Rogan did something I think that's very significant. He read out loud the note bearing Trump's name that was included in a birthday book for Epstein, according to that original reporting from "The Wall Street Journal" that has now been released by the Epstein estate. And I wanted to play part of Rogan's exchange with, I guess I shouldn't say the word ironically, but with a comedian, a comedian, Jordan Jensen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE ROGAN, PODCASTER: It says voiceover like he's like a movie star. Like he's in a script. Donald, yes, there is, but I won't tell you what it is. Jeffrey, nor will I, since I also know what it is. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) talks like this?
JORDAN JENSEN, COMEDIAN: I don't get why he's writing a script.
ROGAN: Yeah, it's very odd stuff.
JENSEN: It's quite strange.
ROGAN: But it's also like the way, like enigmas never age. Have you noticed that? And, Jeffrey, as a matter of fact, it was clear to me the last time I saw you. Like, if one of my friends sent me that, I'd be like, I'm getting a new number.
JENSEN: Yeah, you need help.
ROGAN: You get a new number.
JENSEN: Why don't you just write happy birthday?
ROGAN: Yeah. What (EXPLETIVE DELETED) is wrong with you, Enigma?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Obviously, Ty, Trump denies that he wrote that note, but the Epstein issue isn't going away, and it isn't going away because a lot of people care about it, including some Republicans who at threat of their careers on Capitol Hill, are standing up and saying they want transparency. Will Trump move past this one successfully?
COBB: I don't know. You know, he's been very fortunate in the way that you know, these controversies evolve. And he's thrown, thrown so much at the wall that much of it seems to be sticking. So, I worry that he may walk away from this.
On the other hand I will say, if I was -- if I was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to depose him, which perhaps could take place in the frivolous lawsuit he filed against "The New York Times", I would spend a day and a half on, on this note and everything Epstein, because he's put everything about his reputation in play there.
[19:45:16] And there's no way to contend that it's not relevant. So, he'll either have to walk away from that lawsuit if it's not dismissed or answer questions. And ideally, that may be the -- the way this this comes out.
I mean, unfortunately, you know, we have -- we have too many situations where people cave and don't take him on. I mean, Harvard's taking him on, you know, some principled law firms took him on. I wish ABC had taken him on in this instance, but they did not ideally in one of those battles, we'll get to the bottom of all these things, including Epstein.
BURNETT: Well, Ty, thank you very much. And of course, I know you're referring to Trump's current lawsuit against the New York times, $15 billion.
All right. Ty, thank you.
And next, Bloomberg has reported that Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent once did the very thing that the Trump administration now claims merits a criminal investigation.
Plus, live pictures outside Jimmy Kimmel studio in Los Angeles. Protests growing tonight after ABC put Kimmel on indefinite hold.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: So tonight, President Trump is ramping up his effort to fire Lisa Cook in other important stories to watch. She is, of course, a Biden appointed Federal Reserve governor and he's asked the Supreme Court to terminate Cook. Trump calling her, quote, ethically compromised in the filing for reporting two different homes as her primary residence on mortgage documents.
Now, just laying all that out very clearly, because this development comes just one day after Bloomberg news reported that Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent also simultaneously claimed two homes as primary residences on his mortgage documents, they say on mortgage documents signed the same day.
[19:50:08]
Bessent's lawyer responded to Bloomberg, quote, nearly 20 years ago, Mr. Bessent lawyers filled out paperwork properly. The bank has confirmed it was done properly, and this nonsensical article reaches the conclusion that this was all done properly.
Now, that could all very well be true, because the reason that this is a story is because of Trump. It is because by the Trump administration's standards, having two homes claimed simultaneously as a primary residence warrants criminal investigation.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
BILL PULTE, DIRECTOR OF THE FEDERAL HOUSING FINANCE AGENCY: If somebody is claiming two primary residences, that is not appropriate, and we will refer it for criminal investigation.
(END VIDEO CLI)
BURNETT: Okay, that is Bill Pulte. That is the standard of the Trump administration. He is the top federal housing official on this. He has referred not only Cook for criminal investigation over alleged mortgage fraud on this issue, but two other top Trump critics, including Democratic Senator Adam Schiff and New York Attorney General Letitia James.
Now they all deny any wrongdoing. There has been subsequent reporting from ProPublica and now Bloomberg looking at the Trump cabinet and finding that indeed, it turns out, many in Trump's inner circle did the exact same thing. As of now, there are no criminal investigations into any of them.
Einstein and Ives are OUTFRONT, Peter Tuchman and Dan Ives.
And I appreciate both of you very much.
PETER TUCHMAN, TRADER AT THE NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE: Thanks for having me.
BURNETT: So, so, Dan, you know, here we are. As I said, this is literally a story for one reason and one reason only. And that is because of what the Trump administration is doing and the standard that they have explicitly put out that they are applying to three people who are critics of the administration, or they don't like what they did in the case of Cook and her interest rate vote, and to none of the individuals Bessent included in the -- in the Trump administration who have also claimed that by their rule the same thing.
So, what do you make of this now? Bessent in the middle of it.
DAN IVES, GLOBAL HEAD OF TECHNOLOGY RESEARCH, WEDBUSH SECURITIES: Look, I think, part of the problem is that when you politicize the Fed, you know, there's really like there's a huge ripple effect. And I think it's exactly what you don't want to see happen.
You know, look, this is such an important time, right. In terms like Fed just cutting everything we see with the economy. And you can't put the genie back in the bottle. And I think that's the problem here is that it's a, you know, shots across the bow left and right. And I think now this is something that once it's unleashed, you can't stop it. But as we've talked about, the important thing is not to politicize the process with the Fed. That's so important to the independence.
BURNETT: So important. And Jerome Powell, I watched the whole thing yesterday, carried himself as if it was, 2015. I mean, you know, he -- it was he was the same fed it has always been. And that was clearly the way that he chose.
Yesterday, Peter, Lisa Cook was one of 11 Fed officials who voted to cut interest rates. There was unanimity, except for one, okay? Then. And that was the first rate cut in nine months. She had held out. Other times they were, you know, two had dissented.
They all were in line except for Stephen Miran. His first day at the Federal Reserve. So, he missed all the meetings. But he cast his vote, and he still holds a position as top as a top white house adviser. Trump made it clear he wanted 50 basis point, half a percentage point cut. One person voted for that.
It will come as no shock to anybody watching in the world that we live in, that it was Stephen Miran. So, what does that mean when we talk about the importance of the Fed's independence?
TUCHMAN: You know what? If you listen to and it's -- I think everybody should do this. Anybody who's listening, interested in finance and -- or just -- I don't know if its politics or what, but just to listen to the news conference that Jay Powell put on yesterday because its just the breakdown is extraordinary. He had to -- he had to unpack the bag. He had to -- he had to -- he had to make a case for why he made this decision to cut rates. First of all, even though he had held his ground last meeting in August, he gave us no inkling that he was going to do that in Jackson Hole. He pivoted because all the economic data that's come out ever since then gave the case for a cut.
BURNETT: He just talked about the weakest job market in 15 years.
IVES: Of course.
TUCHMAN: To be perfectly honest with you, I thought 50 was also appropriate. So, I'm going to -- I'm going to dissent against it as well. And it was not because Mr. Trump called me and told me to say that it was 50 basis points. I believe that the economic data --
BURNETT: Maybe if Trump didn't say that and then have his adviser go in and vote for that, people wouldn't be questioning it, right? That's the point.
IVES: And also --
TUCHMAN: I believe that that it was an inappropriate number. So, you know, look, the fact is that, yes, that's what he called for. And the one who he appointed just recently called for that as well.
IVES: I'd also say -- I'd also say to his point, what it just show is like, okay, what's the dot plot? What's the path now knowing when Powell's gone in May, who's coming in next? And you're going to have massive cuts. And that's what everyone's trying to figure out in terms of the market, right?
BURNETT: Right.
TUCHMAN: You heard you heard him say that the independence of the Fed is so important. He said it in the news conference.
IVES: And news conference --
[19:55:00]
TUCHMAN: He laid that out --
BURNETT: And he did. And that's why I say, you know, it was 2015 and I -- and I watched it, you know, there's different ways that people in these institutions are choosing to handle an unprecedented moment. And Jay Powell chose to handle it by saying, I am doing my job as I have always done it.
TUCHMAN: Correct.
BURNETT: And you asked me the questions you've always asked me because the Fed is the Fed. And that was -- that was the way he chose to handle it.
IVES: And could I do a drum roll because the whiteboard is back.
BURNETT: The whiteboard is back. Okay.
IVES: Drum roll. Drum roll.
BURNETT: Okay.
IVES: Whiteboard's back.
BURNETT: We talked about how Powell said, weakest job market in 15 years. And he pointed to immigration specifically for that. But then part of the reason people are so concerned is he also said inflation is still a problem, which would have led you to maybe not do that interest rate cut. He's worried about both, much more worried about the economy, inflation.
Just to give everyone a sense of where we are because we all feel it. Here's my little drawing of the day. If I can do this, can you tell what I just drew? Like a little, little, little cup, a little cup with hot, hot. That's coffee.
It's a cup of coffee. But to the daily life that we all face. So, the average pound retail price of coffee. So, this is what you actually buy. Not when you're buying it on wholesale. Coffee beans is at an all-time high of $8.87 a pound, $8.87 a pound. That is the average among the 75 urban areas price for CPI. So they're looking at that. That is a stunning number. And that is a real problem.
So, rates are -- rates are theoretically going down. But you got this?
IVES: But it speaks to what we've talked with Powell because if you look if relative to tariffs he would have cut I'd argue 25 bps last, but you look at the inflationary numbers, even though you could argue that they're cutting, like it's still something to be focused on because the prices are higher.
TUCHMAN: I'm going to send one last quick time because if you -- I think that Jay Powell did a spectacular job taking us from 8.5 percent inflation down to where we were, that target number of 2 percent seemed a bit erroneous. In my opinion, he should have gotten down to when we got to 2.5, spiked the spiked the football and claim victory.
IVES: And next, our leaders stop drinking coffee, now he's drinking tea.
(LAUGHTER)
BURNETT: All right. Thank you both.
And live pictures where protests are growing now after Jimmy Kimmel show was suddenly pulled by ABC. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news protests growing right now in support of Jimmy Kimmel, including one right outside his studio in Los Angeles. That is actually where he would normally be taping his show, as I speak.
The protests were a day are coming a day, and we're watching this live here in Los Angeles after ABC suddenly pulled Kimmel's show because of his comments about Charlie Kirk's shooter.
Protesters carrying signs including one that says ABC bent the knee. It comes as CNN learns that ABC hopes to bring Kimmel back, but has no timetable on how or when.
Thanks for joining us.
Anderson starts now.
