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Erin Burnett Outfront
"Dangerous As Hell": Ted Cruz Slams FCC Chair's Threats To ABC; Epstein Prosecutor Testifies; Trans Community Under Attack. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired September 19, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:26]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Breaking news, Ted Cruz breaks with Trump over ABC, calling the administration's moves "dangerous as hell", to use his exact words. As President Trump lashes out at a top White House reporter after a question about free speech.
More breaking news, too. The prosecutor behind Epstein's sweetheart deal testifying behind closed doors. We'll talk to someone who was on the other side of those doors.
And Trump ramping up attacks on the transgender community after Charlie Kirk's murder. Vance's former friend, Sofia Nelson, who Vance supported during her gender-affirming surgery, is OUTFRONT.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
(MUSIC)
BURNETT: And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, we begin with the breaking news, "dangerous as hell". Those are Ted Cruz's words. The senator speaking out about Trump's FCC chairman, Brendan Carr and his threats to ABC to deal with Jimmy Kimmel the easy way, or it would be done the hard way.
Here's Cruz.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): Look, look, I like Brendan Carr. He's a good guy. He's the chairman of the FCC. I work closely with him. But what he said there is dangerous as hell. He says, "We can do this the easy way, or we can do this the hard way."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.
CRUZ: And I got to say, that's right out of "Goodfellas", that -- that's right out of a mafioso coming into a bar going, "Nice bye you have here. It'd be a shame if something happened to it."
(END VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: Okay. Well, there it is. As we've said from the beginning, this is what it is.
And tonight, Trump is not happy with his friend, Senator Ted Cruz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think Brendan Carr is a courageous person. I think Brendan Carr is a great American patriot. So I disagree with Ted Cruz on that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Carr is courageous and a patriot, says the president of the United States for what he said. So, let's just play it again. What did he say about ABC after Kimmel's monologue, which included comments about Charlie Kirk and the suspect in his murder?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRENDAN CARR, FCC CHAIRMAN: Any license granted by us at the FCC, and that comes with it an obligation to operate in the public interest. But frankly, when you see stuff like this, I mean, look, we can do this the easy way or the hard way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And within hours of that warning, ABC pulled Kimmel off the air indefinitely. And Trump's assault on the media has sort of -- it's gotten a lot louder even since then.
Tonight, the president, in his second confrontation this week with ABC White House reporter Jonathan Karl, threw a lot of insults at Karl, his network and other networks, all after he was asked this. Let me play it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JONATHAN KARL, ABC NEWS WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: You've said that you have restored free speech in America.
TRUMP: Yeah.
KARL: Is that free speech, including for people who are harshly critical of you for your political opponents, for people who say things you don't like?
TRUMP: I've become immune to it.
KARL: -- unfairly.
TRUMP: I've been -- I've become immune to it. There has never been a person that's had more unfair publicity than me. And that's why your network paid me $15 million or $16 million, I believe, to be exact. George Slapadopoulos, and that's why CBS paid me a lot of money, too. And that's why I sued "The New York Times" two days ago for a lot of money because I --
KARL: The judge --
TRUMP: Well, I'm winning. I mean, I'm winning the cases. And the reason I'm winning is because you're guilty, Jon. You're guilty.
ABC is a terrible network, a very unfair network. And you should be ashamed of yourself. NBC is equally bad. I don't know who's worse. I think they're equally bad. And, you know, for you to stand there and act so innocent and ask me a question like that.
But look, you paid a big price because you were dishonest, Jon. The reason I won that lawsuit was because you were dishonest. You were proven to be dishonest.
And so, you can't sit back and just say, oh, well, what do you think? You don't like -- you're some wonderful person. You're not a wonderful person. Frankly, you're a terrible reporter. You know it and so do I.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I mean, can we just take a step back and realize that there's the insanity and absurdity of that entire exchange, for the record? And I guess it's got to just be said. Jonathan Karl is the best of the best, and certainly doesn't to be, you know, deserve to be spoken of as a terrible reporter. But Trump has free speech, too.
And on the point of suing "The New York Times", it was just today that Trump's $15 billion lawsuit against the times was flatly rejected by a federal judge nominated by former President George H.W. Bush. The judge calling it decidedly improper and impermissible. Comparing the 85-page lawsuit to a megaphone for public relations.
[19:05:05]
And as Jimmy Kimmel's future at ABC remains unclear, although, right, they pulled him off the air indefinitely, dozens of ABC affiliates across the country were planning to air Charlie Kirk tribute specials during Kimmel's usual time slot tonight.
Well, the former CEO of Disney, Michael Eisner, who led the company for two decades, has come out and broken. His silence doesn't usually come out and talk about things with the company, but he did tonight.
And he said this, "Where is a leadership gone? If not for university presidents, law firm managing partners and corporate chief executives standing up against bullies, who then will step up for the First Amendment? The suspending indefinitely of Jimmy Kimmel immediately after the chairman of the FCCs aggressive yet hollow threatening of the Disney company is yet another example of out-of-control intimidation."
Elizabeth Wagmeister begins our coverage OUTFRONT.
As anyone watching knows, Elizabeth has been leading the breaking news on this Kimmel story. And you're here again tonight, Elizabeth getting new information about a really important meeting that Kimmel had with ABC after the firing or the indefinite on hold. Sorry. Make sure I say that correctly.
What are you hearing?
ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So I'm hearing that yesterday, on Thursday, that Jimmy Kimmel met with top ABC executives at his lawyer's office. Keyword there, at his lawyer's office.
Who was present? It was Jimmy Kimmel, his lawyer, his manager and a few top ABC executives.
Now I hear that there was no resolution with this meeting, so we have no indication of if there's a path forward for his show. What that path forward may be. But as we spoke about last night, Erin, you know that I am hearing from sources that Disney is hopeful that they can bring Jimmy Kimmel show back.
They love Jimmy. They would love to bring him back. But what my sources had told me is that they told Jimmy that the temperature has to come down for you to come back, and that is not what he wanted to do. At least on Wednesday night.
So, it remains to be seen what happens with the show if we will ever see Jimmy Kimmel back on that set doing his show. But I have to tell you that what I'm hearing from all across Hollywood, sources outside of Disney, the Hollywood community, the creative community, artists, actors, writers, they are all backing Kimmel and they want answers from ABC. They want answers to stand behind him. They want ABC to reinstate him.
You have Hollywood guilds like the WGA, which represents the writers, and SAG-AFTRA, which represents the actors, which are all rallying behind Kimmel speaking out for free speech.
You have protests outside of Disney. Today, the WGA leading a protest. So, this is a big issue because Hollywood knows this is not just about Jimmy Kimmel. This is not just about Disney. This is about FCC threats and serious threats from the Trump administration that could impact all of these companies, Erin.
BURNETT: Yes. Could impact -- could impact everything to news delivery itself. And, Elizabeth, thank you very much.
All right. Bill Kristol is with me now, Lulu Garcia-Navarro and Elliot Williams.
I appreciate all three of you.
So, Lulu, Ted Cruz, Senator Ted Cruz was silent for a bit. Okay? I was looking all day yesterday to see when he was going to come out and comment on this, because he has been so clear about free speech. And even in the wake of Charlie Kirk's assassination, he spoke out that even people who celebrated it right free speech. This one was napalm to touch. Okay? And he thought about it, and he waited a whole day. But then he came out today and he said, no, not okay. How significant is it?
LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It is significant. Ted Cruz is, you know, an ally of the president, a huge supporter of Donald Trump.
But Ted Cruz is also something else. And I have this in common with him. He is the child of a Cuban refugee. His family left Cuba in the late 1950s, as did mine.
And so, we know that when you start down a path of trying to curtail free speech it is a path that leads to nowhere good. It is not the path to democracy. It is often the path to dictatorship.
And so, it is good that he said it. It was good that he's clear. I think the other question is he is a sitting senator. What is he going to do now?
BURNETT: Right. I guess that is a crucial question.
So, Bill, when he come -- President Trump comes out and look, he said he thinks Ted Cruz is wrong. He didn't, however, say that his actions were a hostile act against this administration as he has to Thomas Massie, who has been pushing for release of the Epstein files. Right.
So, Trump withheld some fire. He withheld some fire. We'll see where this goes.
But, you know, Ted Cruz went and did the whole, you know, put on the accent to be "Goodfellas" to act this whole thing out. He's not -- he's obviously not, you know, going to back down, right? This is -- he has made his point.
Will there be a price to pay for Trump -- with Trump or not?
[19:10:04]
BILL KRISTOL, EDITOR AT LARGE, THE BULWARK: Well, you know, Representative Massie actually has done things, cast votes, introduced resolutions that have really discomforted Trump and challenged him. We'll see if Ted Cruz does that. I'm pretty skeptical.
You know, just one other point. I was struck when you played the tape of Trump going after Jon Karl pretty disgracefully, I would say. But whatever. You know, he cites his victories, the payments from ABC and CBS. Isn't there a lesson there?
The bullying worked. And once some bullying works, you just keep on bullies, keep on bullying. And so, for me, so much of the story here, Jimmy Kimmel is a huge figure. I understand that and all that, but so much of the story is the progressive and repeated capitulation of corporations to Trump, which encourages him to do more and then sort of lays the groundwork for the next corporation to say, well, gee, I mean, if they -- if we conceded on this, how are we going to stand up on that? Or how is the other one going to stand up on that? So that for me, this is a -- it's a very bad pattern and it's getting
worse.
BURNETT: So, Elliot, we heard Trump use the word "illegal" tonight when talking about the media. In fact, he used it several times. Here are some.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think that's really illegal. That's no longer free speech. That's no longer -- that's just cheating. I think Brendan Carr doesn't like to see the airwaves be used illegally and incorrectly, and purposely, horribly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Does the word illegal hold up in any way, shape or form, Elliot?
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I really think it doesn't. Now, certainly the president has every right to be bothered by critical coverage he's gotten, but so does every president who's ever served. And quite frankly, every political leader who served since the time of Jonathan Swift. We have a long tradition in the Western world of criticizing leaders.
And so the idea that you get into the world of illegality merely by criticizing the president simply isn't the case. You know, the more he talks, the more he risks jeopardizing any of these cases, because he's laying or helping to lay the groundwork for a lawsuit from Jimmy Kimmel or someone else about the fact that, you know, ABC was coerced into acting, or that Nexstar was coerced into acting.
And the more the president suggests that there's some sort of bias against the pardon me, that action is being taken on account of the views that he's hearing, that starts stepping into the realm of the First Amendment. So really, you know, he's making his own bed here. The more he speaks publicly.
BURNETT: Well, Bill, there's also -- I mean, you know, if the price of saying something counterfactual is -- if there's a price calling Jonathan Karl a terrible reporter is counterfactual. I mean, Trump, Trump said in many interviews with Jonathan Karl for Jonathan Karl's own books, right?
But Trump's entitled to say it, even though its not true. You know, it is. It is sort of an absurd-a-stan that we are -- we are living in right now, Bill.
KRISTOL: Right. But you know what I've noticed that so far there isn't a lawsuit. And I think if Jimmy Kimmel wants to get back on the air, and I certainly don't blame him for wanting to get back on the air, he's probably not going to sue, and he's probably going to be supported by ABC or Disney or Nexstar if he does sue.
So again, I take the legal analysis. Obviously. Thats correct, I'm sure, but Trump is getting away with so much. I just want to come back to that. Trump, we -- we listen to him and think, oh, my God, now he's saying this, and now he's saying that.
What price has he paid for any of it?
BURNETT: Well, no, I mean, he's gotten the money from CBS. He's gotten the money from ABC, he's gotten Terry Moran's -- not at ABC. I mean, the list, the list goes on. Jimmy Kimmel, Colbert.
Lulu, I want to read again what we heard from Michael Eisner, the former CEO of Disney. And he said, in part, where is all the leadership gone? And then he specifically listed university presidents, law firm, managing partners and corporate chief executive standing up against bullies, right? That those are the people that have to do it. We know when Trump came after, the colleges, right? There were only a few that stood up.
The suspending indefinitely of Jimmy Kimmel immediately after the chairman of the FCC aggressive yet hollow threatening of the Disney company is yet another example of out-of-control intimidation.
The reality, though, Lulu, is what Bill just said, which is that they haven't had to have the consequences, right? That in this case, right. Disney just went ahead and did what Trump wanted and there was no fight.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: You know, it is incredibly sobering that these companies that are some of the biggest companies in the United States of America are essentially saying, were not going to do anything about this, and we're going to placate you, because the question isn't so much about Disney and what happens here. What message does this send if they can do it to Disney, to companies that aren't as well- resourced, that don't have the money for legal fees, what message does it send to smaller news organizations that aren't ABC, that can't defend themselves against a lawsuit like "The New York Times" is?
[19:15:02]
So, the question here isn't just about what's happening right now, but the chilling effect it has for -- across this country and across industries.
BURNETT: So, Elliot, when Bill and Lulu are talking about how the bullying has worked, we are just learning some new information right now. So I'll share it with everybody. And that is that the U.S. attorney, who had been under pressure from Trump to charge New York Attorney General Letitia James with mortgage fraud, told staff today he's going to be stepping down and we're learning this just an hour or so after Trump said, yeah, I want him out. And they said they, you know, they had come to the conclusion they didn't have the goods to go ahead with these charges.
So, they didn't have the goods. Trump says I want him out and he is out. He's gone.
WILLIAMS: Yeah. If true, and that's a big if true. That is seismic and horribly problematic. Now, let's be clear -- U.S. attorneys bring things to the grand jury all the time that don't end in charges, because the rules and the guidelines that U.S. attorneys follow are to, number one, bring the most readily provable offenses that they can, things that they know they can win in court.
So, they either, number one, go to the grand jury and sometimes lose or simply don't bring cases. And that's okay. You do not want to proceed as a prosecutor with a case you do not think you can win. And this idea that simply because the president thinks someone is guilty, you know, might put him at odds with the U.S. attorney. It's just simply not appropriate to fire a U.S. attorney for that basis.
BURNETT: Well, no. And they wanted those charges. It is pretty incredible, though, too, just to consider, right, that it is by the Trump administration's logic that having two primary residences at the same time is a criminal investigation. Right. That is what Bill Pulte said. And they have only done that against Democrats. That is not, of course, the legal standard for criminal acts on mortgage claims.
All right. Thank you all three very much. I appreciate you.
And next, FCC chairman Brendan Carr once slammed Democrats for calling out Fox, Newsmax and OANN for misinformation. I mean, he really did. He was loquacious about it.
So, what has happened? Weve got a KFILE investigation new, next.
Plus, breaking news, Alex Acosta wrapping up six hours of testimony behind closed doors. He's the prosecutor who gave Epstein that sweetheart deal today facing questions. A lawmaker who was in that closed door hearing OUTFRONT next.
And the right vilifying transgender Americans and the right of Charlie Kirk's murder.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, JR., SON OF PRESIDENT TRUMP: I can't name including probably like al Qaeda and the Taliban, a group that is more violent per capita than the radical trans movement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: J.D. Vance's former friend and Yale classmate Sofia Nelson, who is transgender, responds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:22:08]
BURNETT: New tonight, Brendan Carr's complete about-face. A KFILE investigation has unearthed the FCC chair's long history of staunchly defending free speech, once accusing Democrats of a, quote, "chilling transgression of free speech when it came to government pressure on media companies."
But now, Carr, the Trump appointed chair of the Federal Communications Commission, appears to be delivering that exact kind of pressure.
KFILE's Andrew Kaczynski joins me now.
And, Andrew, what you found here is a sharp contradiction to Carr's years of free speech rhetoric.
ANDREW KACZYNSKI, CNN KFILE SENIOR EDITOR: Yeah, it really is, Erin. It's exactly the kind of government pressure that he spent years warning would erode free speech. We reviewed dozens of posts on his public social media official statements and interviews going back years that all reinforce that image.
And I want people to look at just a little bit of what we found. Carr has defended political satire as, quote, one of the oldest and most important forms of speech. He warned that shutting down this type of speech, especially at the urging of those targeted or threatened by its message, would represent a serious threat to our freedoms and our ability to hold those in power accountable.
He also said that political censorship was, quote, a tool of those in power to suppress any challenge to their positions or their orthodoxy. And then in 2019, he even wrote, quote, censoring lawful speech based on its contents. I'm with the First Amendment. I'm a no.
So, all of this, very, very different, Erin, than what he is saying today.
BURNETT: I mean, wow, talk about different. I mean, Andrew, I know you also found a specific incident where Carr attacked Democrats for making similar threats to cable providers?
KACZYNSKI: Yeah. Erin, that's right. In February of 2021, two House Democrats sent a letter to major cable and streaming providers asking why did they continue to carry Fox News, Newsmax and OAN. They argued that those channels had really played a central role in spreading election misinformation. This came in the aftermath of Trump's false claims that the 2020 election was stolen, claims that had been echoed by those networks. And this was, of course, just weeks after the riot at the U.S. Capitol.
Now, in a statement at the time, Carr blasted Democrats, he wrote that they were, quote, sending a message that is as clear as it is troubling. These regulated entities will pay a price if the targeted newsrooms do not conform to Democrats preferred political narratives, he said. In a public statement. Further, that this is a, quote, chilling transgression of free speech rights that every media outlet in this country enjoys. He went a little bit further in a media appearance that we found that he did with a conservative think tank a month later.
[19:25:04]
Listen to him here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CARR: I think having the government, you know, on official congressional letterhead writing to news outlets and asking them what is the moral and ethical principles that guide your coverage, really is a -- is a chilling transgression of free speech and not one that we should -- that we should be going down. And so, we have this effort that I would say sort of outside of the constraints of the First Amendment. That's a thumb on the scale in favor of censorship in this entire trend in this country towards less speech, more censorship.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KACZYNSKI: Now, we reached out to both Carr personally and the FCC. We asked, how do you square what you said then with what you're saying now? And we didn't hear back from either of them. But on CNBC yesterday, Carr said licensed TV broadcasters have a, quote, unique obligation to serve the public interest and said Jimmy Kimmel appeared to, quote, directly mislead the public.
Now, on X last night, Carr described Kimmel's suspension as a business decision based on low ratings and said local TV stations are, quote, responsive to the local communities that they serve.
Now, it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out. You saw what he said, then you saw what he's saying now. And it's very tough to square those two together -- Erin.
BURNETT: Right, right. And of course, thanks so much, Andrew. And just to make the point that, look, one thing to do, what you say your audience wants, another one, you've got a merger that won't pass without approval from the FCC.
Thanks, Andrew.
And next, breaking news, Alex Acosta just wrapping up six hours of testimony behind closed doors. The prosecutor who gave Epstein that sweetheart deal, facing the questions, a lawmaker who was in the room, tells us what happened. He's next.
And the right doubling down on transgender attacks after Charlie Kirk's killing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): Tyler Robinson that murdered Charlie Kirk is not MAGA. He was in a relationship with a biological male.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: J.D. Vance's former Yale classmate and friend, Sofia Nelson, who is transgender, is OUTFRONT to respond.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:31:30] BURNETT: Breaking news, the former U.S. attorney who gave Jeffrey Epstein that controversial sweetheart plea deal back in 2008 was on Capitol Hill tonight. Alex Acosta is his name. You may remember him also because he worked in the Trump administration as the labor secretary for a while. He just finished up his closed door testimony before the House Oversight Committee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEX ACOSTA, FORMER LABOR SECRETARY: I testified for six hours. I'll let the record speak for itself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Okay. Well, just to remind everybody, why is Alex Acosta important here?
Well, because of that plea deal that he made. Epstein served only 13 months in a county jail when he had to register as a sex offender. He was allowed to leave almost every day for 12 hours a day. And it is important to emphasize that when you think about the context here of what he had done, to think about the abuse that such a deal could have knowingly allowed, even while he was serving his time. And that deal also gave Epstein and any potential coconspirators immunity from further federal prosecution, which is pretty incredible, because at the time, they had a lot of evidence and a lot of other names of potential victims. Epstein -- and evidence that Epstein had sexually abused other teenage girls.
So, to give him immunity from anybody coming with other claims is stunning.
Still, Acosta stood by his decision over the years.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: There was value to getting a guilty plea. You can always look at a plea after the fact and say, should it have been the safe play, or should you have gone for the big score?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And there's also do the right thing.
Well, Trump stood by his side, too, even on the day Acosta was forced to resign from Trump's first administration when he was labor secretary, as I mentioned. The reason that he had to resign was because of growing questions about his role in that Epstein plea deal.
At the time, Trump said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He made a deal that people were happy with. And then 12 years later, they're not happy with it. You'll have to figure all of that out. But the fact is, he has been a fantastic secretary of labor. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: A Justice Department investigation later found that Acosta actually allowed that plea deal to happen. While the FBI and Acosta's prosecutors were actually still investigating the case and identifying new victims. So, they did a deal before they even knew the extent of any allegations.
The report notes, and I quote, the government did not know the full scope of Epstein's conduct, whether given Epstein's other domestic and foreign residences, his criminal conduct had occurred in other locations or whether the additional victims might implicate other offenders. That's really crucial, right? That's the -- whether it could implicate other men or coconspirators?
And the report then concluded that Acosta exercised poor judgment.
OUTFRONT now, someone who was inside that closed door, Acosta testimony today, the Democratic Congressman James Walkinshaw, who sits on the House Oversight Committee. I appreciate your time very much, sir.
What did you learn from Acosta's testimony today?
REP. JAMES WALKINSHAW (D-VA): Well, I think we learned what we've seen from Donald Trump and his allies throughout this Epstein saga, which is, in my view, a very callous disregard for the victims, the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein's crimes. And I think Alex Acosta is in that category. The idea that Jeffrey Epstein, after the heinous crimes he committed, could receive an 18 month sentence, serve only 13 months, be released on a daily basis to continue his crimes, and then be released fully to commit more crimes is outrageous.
[19:35:08]
It shouldn't happen in the United States of America. And the idea that Donald Trump then selected Alex Acosta to be his secretary of labor is also outrageous and raises a lot more questions.
BURNETT: So did you get a chance to ask today any of the questions as to what the motive would have been? And I know there's a lot of speculation out there. You know, some have tried to explain why such a seemingly insane deal would have been made. Did you get any answers as to the why that you felt were legitimate?
WALKINSHAW: No answers that I felt were legitimate. He said essentially the same thing. He has said publicly that he didn't have confidence that there was a strong enough case to get a stronger conviction and longer sentence.
Quite frankly, I don't buy it. He struck me as somebody who really didn't fully believe or trust the victims that he was hearing from.
One of the things that deeply disturbed me is that when he was asked about Jeffrey Epstein committing more crimes, including rape, after his release, Mr. Acosta's response was a legalistic one. Essentially, those assertions, those allegations, hadn't been proven in a court of law, so he wasn't going to accept them. Despite what we have heard even recently from the survivors.
BURNETT: You know, according to the chairman of your committee, Mr. Comer, Acosta also said today that he never saw President Donald Trump's name on any document related to Epstein. Of course, we do know that do know that the Department of Justice has informed Trump that his name is in the files more than once. We know that to be the case. We know that he was told about that.
But Comer says that Acosta said he never saw President Trump's name in the files.
So, do you believe that?
WALKINSHAW: I think when the transcripts are released and reviewed, the most common phrase from Alex Acosta today was, I don't recall. And a lot of the questions about Donald Trump, he responded with, I don't recall.
So, I think there's a lot more that we need to learn and look to Chairman Comer. Theres an easy solution to this. If what you and Alex Acosta are saying are true in that respect, then release the files.
Chairman Comer could go to the floor of the House and sign the discharge petition. We can take a vote to release the files. Why doesn't he do that?
BURNETT: I really appreciate your time, Congressman. Thank you very much. I think one of the interesting what he just said.
WALKINSHAW: Thanks for having me.
BURNETT: The words that when the transcripts come out that he believe will be the most used words by Alex Acosta today will be, I don't recall which says so much.
OUTFRONT now, Danielle Bensky, one of the Epstein survivors who shared her story at the Capitol. She was first recruited back in 2004 at the age of 17, to give Epstein a massage at his townhouse on New York's upper east side. Now, at the time, Danielle was struggling to make ends meet. She was an aspiring ballerina in New York City, and she joins me here tonight in her first one on one television interview.
And, Danielle, I'm very grateful to have the opportunity to speak with you.
DANIELLE BENSKY, JEFFREY EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: Thank you for having me.
BURNETT: As you've chosen to put yourself out there and tell this story. So, this was an incredibly difficult time in your life. You were an aspiring ballerina in New York City, right? And going forward, as big as you possibly could. And your mother gets diagnosed with a brain tumor.
BENSKY: Yeah. BURNETT: This is the context in which you meet Jeffrey Epstein. What
happened?
BENSKY: Yeah. So, I had met him a little bit prior to that, and there was really a systematic breaking down that happened that now that I look at it, there was quite a bit of manipulation that happened leading into that moment where I did bring him the brain scans.
And in that moment, that was when the abuse really ramped up. And he said, what will you do for this? What will you do for me?
BURNETT: And to get help for your mother?
BENSKY: Yeah. It really. Exactly. Yeah. And it really felt like a dire situation in my life.
So, he offered, he said you can either recruit more girls or you're going to have to do something for me. And I didn't recruit anybody. I didn't want to recruit anybody. I was not, you know, ever even going to tell anybody about what was happening to me.
I was so ashamed of it. But the manipulation held me there for so long. And so, yeah.
BURNETT: Because you thought -- you thought basically, if I allow him to rape me, if this happens --
BENSKY: Yeah.
BURNETT: -- I could help my mother.
BENSKY: That's true. Yeah. And he also. I mean, there were so many things leading up to this that he was trying to find the way in with me. He would always talk about, I know ballet masters. I have studio space. I have and like couldn't really find the way in until I gave him the brain scans.
And I thought that he had made all this money through the medical profession. And it turns out, of course, that is untrue. But at that moment, I did feel that that, you know, was where it was coming from.
So I did bring him the brain scans, and he -- the abuse rubbed up. And then he knew he had me, you know?
[19:40:01]
So, yeah.
BURNETT: How long did it go on for, Danielle?
BENSKY: About a year. Yeah. So, I was 17 to 18.
Yeah, it was not great.
BURNETT: So as you sit here tonight and you talk about this as a as a victim and as a survivor -- BENSKY: Yeah.
BURNETT: --you know, when you hear what the congressman just said, that the most common words used the most today by Alex Acosta, who did that deal with Epstein in 2007 or -- I don't recall. You know, you were sitting here next to me while we were doing that interview, and I and I saw you reacting. I mean, how do you respond to that?
BENSKY: I mean, I think that -- unfortunately, I think survivors are quite used to that. We're getting that a lot from politicians that are I don't recall that this happened. I can't. And it is really turning a blind eye to survivors.
And I think there has been a systemic breaking down where I feel that, you know, we saw it at the house oversight committee. It was part of that. I was in that room, which was very special to be a part of, because it did feel nonpartizan in that moment.
But as we sat there, we listened to each other's stories in chronological order. And it started with Maria Farmer story in 1996. In 1996, I was ten years old, and she's not the oldest victim, actually, we now know Jess Michaels came forward and her abuse began in 1990. I was five, you know?
So when you look at starting with Maria's story in 1996 and you work your way down the table, you start to see the breadth of this, and it is -- it's absolutely appalling that the justice system has failed us time and time again. And we ended up talking about Acosta in 2008.
And there was a victim who sat there at the House Oversight Committee and spoke of he -- Epstein -- he's not the -- she's also not the only one who mentioned this. Epstein was in an ankle monitor on work release with the police at the door and she --
BURNETT: And this is that 12? Yeah.
BENSKY: And she was being abused. And so --
BURNETT: So while he's on that allowed to be out, he was abusing --
BENSKY: Yeah, and that's on record you know. And that was in front of the entire House Oversight Committee. So, when we hear these words like, you know, were not credible or that it's a hoax, all of these things. It is so personal to survivors, and it is so nonpartisan.
And so, to hear more of the same sort of rhetoric, the same sort of, oh, I can't, I can't recall, I don't know, I don't, you know, dig deep because I promise you, survivors recall.
BURNETT: So the FBI Director Kash Patel was questioned this week about whether there was evidence Epstein victims were trafficked to other men. We know there are more than 1,000 victims. Danielle.
BENSKY: Yeah.
BURNETT: Every one of them. BENSKY: Yeah.
BURNETT: With a face and a name just like you who are in those files.
BENSKY: Yeah.
BURNETT: We also know there are other men. We don't know how many that are mentioned, but Kash Patel said, and I'll quote him, that there have been no new materials brought to me launching a new indictment, and he continued to say that they hadn't seen more names. Okay?
Have you -- what do you -- what do you say to that?
BENSKY: I think it's so -- obviously, it's so painful. Like, I think a lot of victims this week hit sort of a wall and really felt, you know, the brunt of that comment. Because were human. But beyond that scope, I think he needs to educate himself quite a bit more.
I think there's a real deficit in understanding and knowledge, because it's -- most of it is in the established public record. You can go and find these things. I mean, look at Ghislaine. Ghislaine Maxwell was convicted on four counts out of five counts. That in itself should say enough.
So, I really do advise him to do a bit more homework.
BURNETT: All right. Well, I appreciate you, Danielle. Thank you very much for coming out and talking about this so many years later. You could want to just not talk about it.
BENSKY: Yes.
BURNETT: And you are -- you are choosing to put yourself through it. Thank you.
BENSKY: Thank you so much for having us. Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, J.D. Vance's former classmate and friend weighs in on the vice president's rhetoric in the wake of Charlie Kirk's murder.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT FO THE UNITED STATES: We have to talk about this incredibly destructive movement of left wing extremism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And, Willie Nelson, Dave Matthews, Bob Dylan on stage together right here on CNN. We'll tell you why.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:47:28]
BURNETT: Tonight, the White House not letting up on taking on transgender rights as Trump allies are painting transgender people as violent in the wake of Charlie Kirk's murder, the suspected shooters partner is transitioning from male to female. An erroneous reporting in the hours after the shooting said there were transgender messages on the shooter's ammunition.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP JR.: I can't name, including probably like al Qaeda and the Taliban, a group that is more violent per capita than the radical trans movement.
REP. RONNY JACKSON (R-TX): Antifa has embraced these transgenders, and it's just been become one big mess.
GREENE: Tyler Robinson was not MAGA. He was in a relationship with someone who identified as furry and trans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OUTFRONT now, Sofia Nelson, former close friend and Yale Law School classmate of Vice President J.D. Vance, who supported her gender affirming surgery way back in 2012.
And, Sofia, I know our viewers regular of the show are very familiar with you. Thank you for coming back.
So, when you hear all this and you know, there's a lot more where those few examples came from -- are you afraid by this effort that is being put out to try to blame the transgender community for Kirk's murder?
SOFIA NELSON, J.D. VANCE'S FORMER YALE CLASSMATE AND FRIEND: Certainly, I am, Erin. And thank you for having me. Good evening.
We are scared. And this is -- let's stick with the facts. First. J.D. Vance has welcomed me into his home and to his wedding. He knows. And I was then and am now a transgender rights activist. He knows that we're not dangerous.
And if we look at the facts, Erin, there's been well over 5,000 mass shootings unfortunately since 2013. Of the perpetrators of those shootings, five have been trans.
Trans people are one to two percent of the population, but less than one tenth of a percent of the mass shooters in this country. So there's simply no evidence to support these claims, and rather, this is some moral panic and effort to stir up hysteria to target a marginalized and small group of people in this country.
BURNETT: And you just laid out, by the way, right? Just factually math that the disproportionate argument that Donald Trump, Jr. just made was inaccurate. Right? But when you look at it out there since 2022, right, three of the mass shootings, you mentioned, five out of those thousands, but only three in since 2022, where the person responsible identified as transgender or non-binary. And that does include the Minnesota school shooting last month. So, obviously, it's a fraction of the mass shootings in America. But
yet you do hear this notion that transgender people are disproportionately violent because two of the most covered shootings -- there have been multiple mass shootings in the past couple of months, but two of the most covered have been Minnesota, and obviously, Charlie Kirk's assassination.
[19:50:15]
So, how do you come combat this notion, if facts aren't going to be enough?
NELSON: I mean, all I can say is I know that I'm not dangerous. I know my community is not dangerous. And I suspect that the people parroting this rhetoric also know that.
What's happening is leveraging a very terrible tragedy. And, you know, political violence is both morally wrong and counterproductive. And my heart goes out to everyone who's mourning Charlie Kirk, including the vice president. I know they were close friends.
But political violence is endemic to this country. Ten of our 47 presidents have been subject to assassination attempts or assassinated. What we can decide to do is how we respond to that. Do we weaponize it to engage in collective punishment like we did after, with Japanese internment or post 9/11 with the mass surveillance of Muslim Americans? Or like the MAGA movement is currently trying to do to transgender people right now. Or do we tamp down the rhetoric and try to find common ground like other people are trying to do?
But I'm not seeing that coming from the White House right now. And it's scary. And in the history that I'm pointing to, I think it can be quite tragic.
BURNETT: Well, the stat you had about U.S. presidents, I think, would a lot of people probably at home are going, wow, I hadn't thought about it in quite that way. So thank you for putting it out there that way.
The vice president, your friend or former friend, has placed sole blame for Kirk's murder on just in one place on the political left. Okay? He said things like this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: We have to talk about this incredibly destructive movement of left wing extremism that has grown up over the last few years, and I believe is part of the reason why Charlie was killed by an assassin's bullet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Sofia, is that the person you knew?
NELSON: No, but what I'm concerned with is leveraging this tragedy to engage in a political project, which is to censor free speech and criminalize nonprofit organizations. We're heading down the path of Putin's Russia, where it's no longer safe to be openly LGBTQ. And people are either returning to the closet or fleeing the country.
And this kind of targeting of nonprofit organizations and censoring of free speech is not the sign of a robust civil society that we would like in a democracy.
BURNETT: Sofia, thank you very much. I'm glad to talk to you as always.
NELSON: Thank you for having me, Erin.
BURNETT: And next, for decades later, former cotton and corn picker Willie Nelson, still at it, standing with U.S. farmers and Farm Aid and Bill Weir, has a special report.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:56:21]
BURNETT: Twenty-four hours from now, Bob Dylan, Dave Matthews, Willie Nelson and more, all performing at CNNs special presentation of Farm Aid 40.
Bill Weir is OUTFRONT on why.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a debt crisis that inspired the first Farm Aid when foreclosures and suicides inspired Willie Nelson and friends to raise money and awareness.
WILLIE NELSON, MUSICIAN: As long as there's one family farmer out there who wants to stay on the land, we'll be here.
WEIR: Forty years later, there is still plenty of farm debts, along with plenty of worry about immigration raids, trade wars and climate change.
Earth is hotter by 1.4 degrees Fahrenheit since Farm Aid one, bringing more drought, flood and pestilence.
PENNY JORDAN, FARMER: Our big harvest at this point in time is tomatoes.
WEIR: Penny Jordan recently lost tens of thousands of dollars worth of strawberries to fruit flies that now survive Maine winters. And now she's dealing with historic drought. Scrambling for irrigation gear never needed before.
JORDAN: Farming has never gets easier. It always gets harder. And all of the inputs cost more. Everything is expensive.
And so, you're looking at a season that you always hope has promise and every time you have more money going into your inputs and then you want your product to be affordable for people. WEIR: Meanwhile, in Minnesota, Angela Dawson says she's losing her
dream of a 40-acre co-op to grow hemp and train a new generation of black farmers to grow the kind of biodiversity we saw in Penny's farm in Maine, where variety helps feed the surrounding ecosystem.
ANGELA DAWSON, FARMER: It's really a simple saying, but like if you ate today, thank a farmer, is like the reality hasn't hit I think most of us yet.
WEIR: First, she says, epic storms destroyed her hoop houses and then a Biden era grant she was counting on to buy a tractor was killed amid cuts by the EPA.
DAWSON: I think when we just commoditize everything and try to put it into a stock market tick --
WEIR: Right.
DAWSON: -- it just might not. It doesn't work that way. And so I feel like if we just had more of a holistic and comprehensive approach to agriculture, including all the diverse aspects that makes things grow --
WEIR: Yeah.
DAWSON: -- you know, farming can't just be a monoculture.
WEIR: Ironically, it is monoculture commodity crops like corn that get the most federal subsidy help, while those growing the veggies at your farm stand often struggle to stay in business.
REP. CHELLIE PINGREE (D-ME): I ended up becoming a hippie back to the lander and coming to Maine in the 1970s.
WEIR: Chellie Pingree was one of those organic farmers before joining Congress, and is now trying to pass her Agricultural Resilience Act.
PINGREE: Some of the parts of the bill talk about things like keeping farmland, because a lot of farmers are just worried about losing their farm and what protection programs can help keep it. And then when you have your farm, how do we make it more viable? Is it a value-added producer grant that allows you to turn your goat milk into cheese or your raspberries into jam? You know, what is it?
WEIR: Farm aid is helping promote her bill, but she's up against an administration that is openly hostile to climate science.
TRUMP: And windmills. We're just not going to allow them. They ruin our. They're ruining our country. They're ruining everyone.
PINGREE: I mean, one of the goals is to make agriculture net zero. But, you know, today, climate change isn't such a popular item with this, with this president. But on the other hand, keeping farms viable should be. And this USDA should be all about how do we serve our farmers. So, this bill is really to talk about those things that would make it more viable to be on the land, how to reduce your energy costs. What kind of research do you need to deal with the weeks and weeks we've had of drought this year, what do you need to do more irrigating? How do you do all these things?
WEIR: Bill Weir, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Don't miss Farm Aid 40 live tomorrow night at 7:00. Thanks for joining us.
"AC360" starts now.
