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Erin Burnett Outfront

New Video: Kimmel Arrives At Studio For First Show Since Suspension; Trump's Major Shift; American Children Stranded. Aired 7- 8p ET

Aired September 23, 2025 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:24]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:

Breaking news, new video into OUTFRONT of Jimmy Kimmel just arriving at his studio, moments away from his return to TV, as major questions remain about what Trump and his administration will do next.

Also breaking this hour, the president's stunning shift on Ukraine, now saying not only can Ukraine win the war against Putin, but it can also take back all of the land that Russia seized. So, what is behind this sudden 180?

And a special CNN investigation uncovers more and more children in America are now stranded and alone after their parents are deported by ICE.

Let's go OUTFRONT.

Good evening, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan, in for Erin Burnett.

OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news, new video just in of Jimmy Kimmel arriving at his studio ahead of his highly anticipated return to TV. And this exclusive video captured by "Entertainment Tonight", we can -- you can see Kimmel exiting his car, grabbing his backpack and then heading into the studio.

In a moment, were going to talk to ET's Kevin Frazier, who was there when and about to happen as all eyes are on Kimmel for what is sure to be one of the biggest nights in TV history. The audience beginning to arrive and file in to the studio now.

This all comes as the president and his administration continue to threaten other late night hosts and media writ large that they deem as unfriendly, and it's having an impact.

Tonight, a quarter of the country, that's tens of millions of Americans, won't be able to watch Kimmel's remarks on TV. That is because of a boycott by two local TV giants who have a lot of power over what people see and hear, Nexstar and Sinclair. Together, they own 70 ABC stations across the country, stations in cities like Washington, Seattle, St. Louis, Nashville, Salt Lake City, and both companies are making it clear that they will not be airing Kimmel tonight, a decision that's being cheered by the Trump administration. The chairman of the FCC, Brendan Carr, still talking and still

tweeting, saying this, "Democrats simply can't stand that local TV stations, for the first time in years, stood up to a national programmer and chose to exercise their lawful right to preempt programming."

So, is Nexstar really standing up for what it thinks is right, or is it just looking to curry favor with that Brendan Carr who has the power to sign off on a $6 billion media merger that Nexstar is looking to get approved?

OUTFRONT now, Kevin Frazier, co-host of "Entertainment Tonight", who is outside the studio where its all about to happen.

Kevin, you saw Kimmel as he arrived today. Just how big is this moment for him?

KEVIN FRAZIER, HOST, ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT: Sure. I believe this is the biggest night in his career. And, Kate, I've worked with Jimmy since back in the day when he was on "The Man Show", and I've covered him a lot here in Hollywood.

This is an important night just because it's not about what happens in the future, it's about making sure that he does what he's supposed to do so ABC can keep him on the air.

BOLDUAN: Are you hearing anything about what this show is going to look like?

FRAZIER: Well, we know Glenn Powell will be here, and so Sarah McLachlan will be the guest.

But I want to show you a couple of things. Jimmy arrived right here at this door. This is the backstage door. And I want to show you all the media that's here. They brought him down this alley because usually Jimmy drives in, he parks, and he walks in and goes in that backstage door.

But today, he wanted to avoid the media. And so, he took his time in coming in and came down the alley and got in here just before noon. His sidekick Guillermo arrived about 90 minutes earlier. Jimmy was with his wife.

And I think the tone he is going to set tonight is very important because, look, say what you want next, and Sinclair hold a lot of power. I worked at the very first Sinclair news station in Baltimore, Maryland, with the Smith brothers have built out of that one station now into 198, has become a real powerhouse.

So, this is an important night because you lose 70 affiliates that drastically changes your entire rating system. And also, how many people get to see you each and every night and how popular you are with advertisers.

BOLDUAN: That's a great point. Kevin, stick with us, please. It's great to have you there. And thank you for joining us. Also joining us right now is Katie Drummond, global editor -- global

editorial director at "Wired". Brian Stelter is here, CNN's chief media analyst. And Alex Weprin, senior editor at "The Hollywood Reporter".

Guys, thank you for being here.

Brian, is this going to be the biggest show of Kimmel's career?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: It absolutely is. And I think he clearly knows the moment. He's had a week to think about what he might want to say.

And given what he's been saying on the air for months, actually for years, about President Trump, I think he wants to send a message to the country more broadly about what's at stake, about what rights are at stake, about whether this country is going to be a thriving democracy or whether it's sliding into something that we don't recognize in this country.

[19:05:16]

That is the moment. That is the backdrop for what he's going to say. And of course, he's also going to try to have a lot of fun because it is supposed to be a late night comedy show. Let's not forget that.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLDUAN: Yeah, let's not forget that in this moment. The fact that Jimmy Kimmel arrived with his wife kind of could be a statement in and of itself, of how important he feels this moment is. If that's not a typical thing for them.

Alex --

STELTER: Well, she is executive producer of the show, actually.

BOLDUAN: But arriving together is a great thing.

STELTER: That's true. And it does show how the family -- this is a family affair for Jimmy. Not only do they work together at the show, he really wanted to keep his staff employed. He did not want to become a martyr and be canceled and go off to Netflix or something.

He wanted to be back where he belongs and that's what he's doing.

BOLDUAN: Two hundred plus people working for him.

Alex, Kimmel did sort of kind of maybe break his silence a little bit on Instagram, on social media today for the first time that he's posted anything since this all started, he posted a picture and well put it up of him with the legendary TV producer Norman Lear, with the caption simply saying, "Missing this guy today."

What do you think is behind that? How big is this moment for Kimmel himself? ALEX WEPRIN, SENIOR EDITOR, THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER: Yeah, look, I

think this is one of the biggest moments in Kimmel's career. Norman Lear, of course, was a big proponent of free speech. He believed that creatives should be able to tell the stories they want to tell.

Kimmel, of course, produced these live ABC specials based on Norman Lear's sitcoms. So, they -- they had a personal relationship. This is a -- this is a big moment, as Brian noted. I think that they're really going to -- to make it -- make sure that they can live up to the expectations that they've set.

BOLDUAN: Norman Lear was a big free speech advocate throughout, throughout his career.

WEPRIN: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: And, Katie, Joe Rogan is also talking about this today, saying that for one, he thinks this -- how this has all gone down and what is all happening is going to make Kimmel just more popular than ever.

But I want to play. Also, Rogan's take from a new episode of his podcast today on this. Let me play this for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE ROGAN, PODCASTER: For Jimmy Kimmel, all this does is help him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.

ROGAN: It makes his show bigger, much more support. He comes back to a standing ovation. Donald Trump tweets mean (EXPLETIVE DELETED) about him. And then the world moves on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This show still sucks. It still sucks.

ROGAN: I think that is also (EXPLETIVE DELETED) insane. I don't have time to do that. How do you have time to do that? How do you have time while you're running the world to be tweeting that you don't like talk show hosts?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.

ROGAN: That is so --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So crazy.

ROGAN: -- crazy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: He went on to say, it's F-ing crazy for the government to be involved in dictating what a comedian can or can't say.

How significant is that?

KATIE DRUMMOND, GLOBAL EDITORIAL DIRECTOR, WIRED: Well, first of all, he's right. And just to sort of lay out the stakes for people, I mean, Joe Rogan's audience is enormous. He has a healthy eight figure audience for this show, and it is primarily young men. And let's keep in mind here that this is someone who endorsed Donald Trump in the 2024 presidential election, who is reaching a very important demographic of Trump voter with a message around the importance of First Amendment.

And I think ultimately, you know, my view here is that it doesn't matter what you think of Joe Rogan, what you think of Ted Cruz, for example, this is a really important moment for anyone who cares about the First Amendment and freedom of speech to lock arms around this. And that's exactly what we're seeing.

BOLDUAN: Yeah. I mean, Joe Rogan wants to be able to say what Joe Rogan wants to say. No matter -- no matter who's running the country, right?

DRUMMOND: Absolutely. I mean, that -- that's really what it is. Who's in charge today is not who's in charge tomorrow. Let's talk about the money element of this. You're talking about Sinclair and Nexstar. They're not. It's 70 local TV stations are not going to be airing this. They're going to be both -- these kind of local TV giants are going to be preempting the show.

What do you think that means? And how do you think Disney sees this?

STELTER: Disney sees this as a power struggle between the local stations and the national company, and that they believe they'll win that power struggle. This is one of those rare blowups that happen from time to time between affiliates and the national network. This does happen. It will get resolved eventually, but it does speak to this red blue divide in America, and it speaks to, you know, a lack of common ground in the country.

You know, notably, I just learned the Sinclair station in Providence, Rhode Island, will air Kimmel tonight to Sinclair Station, but it's in a blue state. And it makes me wonder if the company is thinking about where the audience is interested.

BOLDUAN: It's so wildly fascinating.

STELTER: Yes.

BOLDUAN: That's really, really wild.

STELTER: Isn't it? Yes.

BOLDUAN: Just because of where this locality is and what red and blue state?

I mean, talk about how everyone is not only in a silo, in an echo chamber. It's -- we're seeing this on like a level we've never seen before. STELTER: In a way that I find very uncomfortable as an American who

does not want to see us pull even further apart, to be even more divided. But the reality is, a lot of Trump voters are already so dismissive of Kimmel, they're never going to watch that show. They're not interested in the show.

BOLDUAN: Just turn it off.

STELTER: This divide is deepening as a result, well, well --

DRUMMOND: But they should be able to access it, right? That is sort of fundamentally the point here.

BOLDUAN: Yeah, that is why we all -- have a remote and have their TV on our phones.

[19:10:03]

You can always change a channel.

STELTER: But don't you think from a Trump voter point of view, all these liberal late night shows, all these anti-Trump comics, it is something that's been really frustrating for voters for years.

BOLDUAN: Sure.

STELTER: And this is an eruption that really emphasizes that and underscores that people who are still hurting about Charlie Kirk assassination, people who are still mourning, and they believe Kimmel was mocking them. They believe Kimmel was lying about them.

So, I'm really interested to see, Kate, what is the counterreaction. What do we hear from President Trump after the un? What do we hear from more Trump supporters about ABC's decision? Will there now be another boycott, this time by conservatives? I don't know.

BOLDUAN: I mean, rolling boycotts from all over the country.

That tweet that I put up, Alex, from the FCC chairman, let's put it up again and I'll read it again that Democrats simply can't stand that local TV stations, for the first time in years, stood up to a national programmer and chose to exercise their lawful right to preempt programing. We need to keep empowering local TV stations to serve their communities of license. I mean, what are your sources telling you about what these local stations are going to do next?

WEPRIN: Well, what I find so fascinating about this is that Brendan Carr is basically deputizing these local stations to take action to be activists against the national network partners. So that's what is so --

BOLDUAN: It's an interesting take. Yeah.

WEPRIN: It's a really unusual situation. Like we've never been in a situation where an administration has kind of openly pushing for, you know, these local station owners to go to their networks and say, hey, we don't like that content. We find it wrong, we're not going to run it. And I think we might be at the beginning of a longer battle here between the station owners and their network partners.

BOLDUAN: I just wonder what that -- I mean, what is that going to look like? Can we just talk about kind of -- we are all no one knows and everyone is waiting to hear from Jimmy Kimmel himself. What the -- the what -- here's the what-if.

What if, after tonight's show, he is seen as going easy, he's seen as not -- and I don't know what the measure is going to be in the eye of the beholder for sure. What -- it just to me says, like, there's so much on this man's shoulders on what words he utters tonight.

DRUMMOND: I don't envy him. I mean, he has a big job to do. I would say that as a journalist, right? And someone who cares deeply about the First Amendment, knowing that there were backroom conversations between Jimmy Kimmel and executives about sort of how to get him back on the air, it will be very important for me to see -- is it a conciliatory tone? Is it a softer version of the Jimmy Kimmel that we are used to, or does he come out swinging? I think that will be fascinating.

STELTER: More broadly, in a country of Disney, of Paramount, of major media companies appear to be caving to Trump, not just tonight, not next week, but in the months to come, that just creates more energy in this country for alternatives, for startups, for Substacks, for YouTube channels, you know, for "Wired Magazine", it creates more energy for the ones who have a backbone.

I don't know Kimmel is going to go that direction. But if that's what happens, it creates more energy for rivals and alternatives.

BOLDUAN: I don't know, Alex. What do you think?

WEPRIN: Yeah. I mean, look, this is going to be, I think, a turning point in late night TV. And for Kimmel personally, like, as Brian noted, you know, the future of late night comedy is already shifting towards YouTube and those platforms. And, you know, I think what happens tonight could kind of paint a little bit of a picture of what we might see going forward.

BOLDUAN: Let's get back to Kevin Frazier, who's on the ground outside the studio for us.

Kevin, what if -- what do you think? Weigh in on this. What is at stake for Jimmy Kimmel? And what if he touches on it and decides to move on and says, now it's time to get to the funny stuff?

FRAZIER: Well, I think there's a -- there's a couple important things to understand that the discussions with Jimmy and Disney began while he was sitting in his lawyer's office. That's number one.

Number two, the reason that Jimmy is still here doing this show is because the people that work for him mean so much to him. I was here after the suspension and the shocked faces as they left, and I'm sure Jimmy exhorted him to have to worry about these people and their jobs. You see the audience right behind me.

This is the audience that will load in for tonight's show. They are the lucky ones who will get in there and get a chance to see Jimmy. And, you know, we have to remember, he works for Disney. You know, you hear other voices that don't work for anybody but themselves. And that's where you can say what you want to say and do what you want to do.

And so, I think that tonight, he'll take it down a notch. I really do believe that. And one of the reasons is because of the people in this building that he cares so much about.

BOLDUAN: Is the win getting back on air, or is the win in what he says or decides not to, do you think Kevin?

FRAZIER: The win is getting back on air and finishing this run. We don't know if he's going to go past May, but we know that at least the folks here will be employed and that he will come back night after night. You see, they have a full schedule now, and there is a plan to keep them on the air.

I'm sure they have vetted his monologue up and down, and that they're really trying to stay away from any more madness. They want to get the Nexstar stations back. They want to get the Sinclair stations back.

And at the same time, Nexstar and Sinclair. They have business that they're doing with the government and the FCC. We know that Nexstar is trying to push together, push through their merger with Tegna. It's important to them, and it will make them one of the biggest owners of local stations in this country.

[19:15:01]

And the FCC is going to have to bypass a law to make this thing happen. So, of course, they have to acquiesce to the FCC. And so they're trying to play nice with the government. And at the same time, they're trying to run their stations.

BOLDUAN: Yeah. I mean, talk about -- do you care about -- do you care about an issue? Put $6 billion as a price tag on it. You can be sure that that's -- that's the thing.

Kevin, it is great to have you there. Thanks so much for jumping on I really appreciate it.

Guys, thank you all so much for being here with us. Much more to come on that.

And make sure to check out Katie Drummond and the "Wired" team's new November/December issue of the first ever completely devoted to politics issue of "Wired". An important look at big tech's embrace of Donald Trump.

Thanks, guys, so much.

OUTFRONT for us next, the breaking news an extraordinary about-face by Donald Trump. The president now urging Ukraine to fight on and win back all of the land that Russia seized, plus one of the nation's top voices on health policy, says Trump's announcement linking Tylenol use to autism was a "jump the shark" moment and a, quote, total disaster. He's our guest.

And a shocking moment inside a courtroom. The man accused of trying to assassinate then candidate Trump tries to stab himself after being convicted.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:20:37]

BOLDUAN: Breaking news. A complete 180 from President Trump on Ukraine and Russia. The president, in an extraordinary statement, in large part due to the whiplash inducing nature of it, now says that he thinks Ukraine can, quote, win back all of the land that Russia seized.

I'm going to read just part of what was a lengthy Truth Social post from the president. Quote, I think Ukraine, with the support of the European Union, is in a position to fight and win all of Ukraine back in its original form. He also went on to add the war was making Russia look like a, quote/unquote, paper tiger.

The same Donald Trump who has previously and long said Ukraine will need to cede territory as part of any deal to end the war. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There will be some land swapping going on. There will be some swapping of territories to the betterment of both.

The contract in terms of dividing up the lands, et cetera. Et cetera. It's being negotiated as we speak.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: President Trump's about-face came after a one on one meeting with Ukraine's President Zelenskyy, a meeting that Zelenskyy himself described as definitely the most substantive one that he has had with Donald Trump.

Outside of that substance, President Trump spoke before the U.N. General Assembly and dressed down the entire world, basically lecturing world leaders from nearly 200 countries, like on this about immigration policy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It's time to end the failed experiment of open borders. You have to end it now. I can tell you. I'm really good at this stuff. Your countries are going to hell.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLDUAN: OUTFRONT now, Lulu Garcia-Navarro and former Republican Congressman Charlie Dent.

Guys, thanks for being here. Lulu, let's start with what's going on with the about-face from Trump on Russia.

Just what do you make of it?

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: You know, I don't know what to make of it. As you pointed out, because he changes his tune all the time. He oscillates from one position to another.

But I think what we need to take away from this is that I'm not sure anything really has changed. He didn't talk about putting sanctions on to Russia, something that he has been sort of threatening for a long time. He really hasn't changed his position on giving weapons to Ukraine more directly.

So, I don't see any substantive difference. This is really just him posturing in a different direction. So, you know, I'm not sure what to make of it. And I can tell you that neither do our allies. Many of them were very confused by the statement, and it took them by surprise.

BOLDUAN: I will say, though, some Republicans in Congress who have been pushing and long supporters of Ukraine were elated that they heard this. Lindsey Graham, taking to social media, saying that this is a game changer, hearing this statement. Again, but the question is, Lulu says, it must be asked, can you believe the president and that he won't flip flop again because if not, you know, we don't need to go in the wayback machine too far. But like you're rolling out literally the red carpet for Vladimir Putin in one moment and then you're lashing out at him the next?

Forget if we can. If anyone can believe he's going to stick to it. Can anyone make him and force him after taking this position, having this sit down looking Zelenskyy in the eye, coming out and having this, is there anyone who can force him?

CHARLIE DENT, FORMER U.S. CONGRESSMAN: I don't know if they can force him, but I welcome his rhetorical shift. I mean, he actually said things I didn't think he'd ever say --

BOLDUAN: Right.

DENT: About the weakness and fragility of the Russian economy. He said all sorts of things here, and that he -- and on the territorial issues, he's -- he's saying the right things. But as Lulu pointed out, will this, will this, this rhetoric be followed up with concrete actions, sanctions? What about the $300 billion in frozen Russian assets? Why don't we tap into those for the war effort, and to reconstruct the country?

He didn't get into any of those issues, but he also said to win that territory back with the support of the European Union. And it sounded like, well, we might not be as directly involved. Yes. We have been sending weapons to the Europeans who then transfer them. So, will he actually support greater arms shipments for this effort? That's the big question. I hope he does.

BOLDUAN: Look, the secretary of state just this morning, again, this is not a surprise. Donald Trump can say things and not clue in his clue in his team all the time. But the secretary of state just this morning said that they're not there yet on sanctions. It could be coming. But he also reiterated Rubio this morning that the belief was from their standpoint that if you put on sanctions now, it would make it less likely and harder to push Russia towards peace, which really everyone involved thinks at this point.

[19:25:09]

Like, what are you waiting for and that can't be true.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I mean, I think this is the point. Nobody who knows anything about Vladimir Putin or this conflict thinks that there will be peace, or that Vladimir Putin will negotiate in good faith. The only language that he understands is the language of weapons and the language of war.

And so, therefore, the big question remains with Donald Trump, is he going to actually put Americas might where his mouth is.

BOLDUAN: If he really does believe that Russia is a paper tiger, then there should be nothing stopping them from actually now making moves to force Russia to the table, because if they look dangerous, but they're completely ineffectual. Thats what a paper tiger is.

DENT: Ukrainian battlefield success will force Russia to the table. More weapons, more sanctions taking Russia's frozen assets that will get them to the table.

BOLDUAN: And then we have the nearly hour long speech that the president gave before the general assembly. He spent nearly a quarter of his speaking time attacking efforts to address climate change. He called it, quote, the greatest con job ever perpetuated -- ever perpetrated on the world. And he really unleashed and ripped into world leaders over unchecked migration, buying oil and gas from Russia, ignoring his peace efforts, he said. What do you think the end result of that address is?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: So, like with a lot of things with Donald Trump, there was a lot of untruths, a lot of bombast, but there is a kernel of something real there, which is that the United Nations is extraordinarily weak, and everyone who knows anything about it.

I was a longtime foreign correspondent. I know the United Nations extremely well, and it is very fragile at a moment, as is sort of, the world order. The United States is stepping back.

What Donald Trump said in that speech is this is the time of monsters. You know, might is right, but is it the United States stepping in to fill that vacuum? It is not. He's saying, basically, we're not going to be involved in this. You guys are on your own. And so you're seeing the world order right now really shifting away from the United States, away from the sort of policeman role that the United States has traditionally played. And the United Nations, frankly, has not been able to fill that void.

BOLDUAN: One of the things that -- let me just play for play for you, Charlie, one of the things that the president did say during his speech is that he said again, and he has said before he claimed that he has ended seven wars, even though it is far more complicated than just saying that. But listen to how he talked about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: In a period of just seven months, I have ended seven unendable wars. They said they were unendable. Everyone says that I should get the Nobel Peace Prize for each one of these achievements. What I care about is not winning prizes. It's saving lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: As you watched this speech, kind of to Lulu's point, one of the things, the vibes coming off of that dais seemed apparent that Donald Trump does not believe that he needs the United Nations for anything.

DENT: Well, I think he probably feels that way. But I think the world leaders who are watching him today see this as America retrenching, retreating from the global stage economically through tariffs. Geopolitically, we saw what happened, shutting down our development efforts through USAID, that we are pulling back. Vacuums are being created. He's opened the door for the Chinese.

And I think many of these countries are watching, saying, America. This seems to be pulling up the drawbridge in so many ways. And certainly, on the climate issue is another area, immigration. So, I think right now, basically, Donald Trump was just being himself today. And telling the world America First or America alone.

BOLDUAN: Yeah. America alone. And I will say, especially on economic issues, China is happy to say we're open for business is what we were saying in many big ways. It's great to see you guys. Thanks for being here.

OUTFRONT for us next, one of the nation's leading experts when it comes to medicine and ethics, says Americans can no longer trust the United States government after President Trump's announcement linking Tylenol use to autism. Art Caplan is our guest.

Plus, a CNN special investigation. Children deserted oftentimes left with strangers because of the president's unprecedented crackdown on immigrants.

(BEGIN VIDOE CLIP)

REPORTER: What happened to mommy?

UNIDENTIFIED KID: ICE took him. (END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:34:05]

BOLDUAN: Tonight, total disaster. That is how world-renowned medical ethicist Art Caplan, who's my guest in just a moment, is responding to the president's claims about Tylenol use and autism. Caplan writes this in a new piece: We now have a regime that sees science as an enemy and -- as an enemy, and public health as only fit for personal anecdotes and conspiracy. Americans cannot trust their government.

That message about not trusting the Trump administration is echoing around the world.

Here's the British health secretary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WES STREETING, UK HEALTH SECRETARY: There is no evidence to link the use of paracetamol by pregnant women to autism in their children. None. Don't pay any attention whatsoever to what Donald Trump says about medicine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: The secretary there, using a different generic term for acetaminophen. But you hear that message loud and clear.

[19:35:00]

OUTFRONT with me now, Art Caplan, professor and pioneer of medical ethics at New York University's Grossman School of Medicine.

It's good to see you again, Professor. It's been a while.

I want to read more of what you wrote about this for our viewers. You also write this: Americans cannot trust their government. The HHS, FDA, NIH, CDC, and executive branch have collectively jumped the public health shark. And you also write that you've never seen anything like this in your lifetime.

Why is this moment different from others?

ARTHUR CAPLAN, LEADING BIOETHICIST AT NYU'S GROSSMAN SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Hey, Kate, thanks for having me. And my lifetime is pretty long, so I've seen a lot of press conferences and a lot of advice scratch my head through a few on covid over the years. But this big reveal on autism that was supposed to give us the answer was the saddest display from beginning to end of high-level government advice. Lacking in evidence, recycling old myths, offering outright lies, Trump telling personal stories that don't rest on anything.

Autism is a huge public health problem. And to present us with, if you will, a baseless solution, baseless causation to what's really causing the autism epidemic just an enormous, inexcusable disappointment. And remember all the docs that run NIH, FDA CMS, Oz, all standing behind him, nodding, no disagreement, nothing corrected.

That makes me want, you know, I'm -- you cannot trust what's coming out of there.

BOLDUAN: And as so many know, your life's work and I have followed and talked to you over the years about your work, you take on and struggle with some of the toughest questions when it comes to medicine. Advancements in medicine, and the ethics around it.

This does not seem that I mean, what do you fear is going to be the impact?

CAPLAN: Well, look, Kate, for one thing. You don't want women not to take Tylenol when they're pregnant, when they have a fever. You're basically saying, what did the president say? Tough it out?

Tough it out? That's a moral claim that is irresponsible. Those docs were standing behind him know, you learn it in medical school pretty early, fever is the worst enemy of a fetus in a pregnancy. You got to get it down.

To tell people don't do that, height of irresponsibility . Remember he said to you, get the hepatitis B shot, but it's sexually transmitted. You don't need it till you're 14. You need it when you're delivering the baby because the mom can pass the disease to the baby. Absolutely irresponsible advice again.

So, what makes this ethics? You come and you offer the autism community, promise them an answer, give them misinformation, distortion. And I can tell you, having talked today to a lot of people on the autism disability side of the street, they're not buying any of this. Most of the things that were talked about that Tylenol idea, it's been around 10 years. It's not news to them. They already have given up on that.

BOLDUAN: You talk about the misinformation. I mean, the president has very clearly the power of the bully pulpit. How do you go about combating public health misinformation when it is coming from the most powerful office in the world?

CAPLAN: Well, one thing we got to do is call it out, and I want more of my colleagues and experts in obstetrics, in vaccinology, to speak up locally, nationally and say, this is bad information. I was very pleased to see the UK health minister do that. There are other countries health ministers doing that. So that points me in the right direction. Let's try to talk to our doctors, not to people who aren't doctors, RFK Jr. and Donald Trump, talk with your doctor when you're pregnant about what's best for you. What might help prevent problems.

Let's look at trusted websites. The American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology, the American association of pediatrics, American Psychiatric Association, all of them have good information, up today saying what Trump and Kennedy and the rest said is false.

And let's look overseas. Good websites in Sweden, Canada, Britain, good sources of information for moms who are worried.

Look, pregnancy is a tough time. I know that. I hear from women -- they're told, do this, don't do that. Watch out for this. Beware of that. They want to do the right thing.

We can't trust our own government to help us here. Weve got to look elsewhere.

BOLDUAN: It is quite something to hear, you can't trust the U.S. government when it comes to -- what the U.S. government, when it comes to science and medicine. You need to look elsewhere outside the country now.

Art Caplan, thank you for coming in. Thank you for it.

OUTFRONT for us next, a special CNN investigation across the country.

[19:40:03]

More children are finding themselves stranded without their parents because their parents were picked up during Trump's immigration raids. So, what is happening to these children now?

And the French president phones a friend, calling Donald Trump after getting blocked by the president's motorcade.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT: How are you? Guess what? I'm waiting in the street because everything is frozen for you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:45:10]

BOLDUAN: Tonight, a CNN investigation revealing a growing number of American children are being left behind, sometimes with no relatives or friends to care for them after ICE deports their parents out of the United States.

Kyung Lah is OUTFRONT with this special report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: What happened to mommy?

UNIDENTIFIED BOY: ICE took him.

LAH: For more than a month, six-year-old Phoebe (ph), nine-year-old Angelo, and 14-year-old Isaac have been in Galveston, Texas, separated from the only parent they have. ICE arrested and deported their mother to Honduras.

The siblings can explain they missed their mother. Why it's happened is what they don't understand.

ISAAC PEREZ, MOTHER WAS DEPORTED TO HONDURAS: Do you know what ICE is? Say immigration.

UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Immigration.

LAH: Do you know what that means? Did you guys get to say goodbye?

UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: Yes.

LAH: Did mommy say something?

UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: I love you.

LAH: Those were the last words they heard at home. Their mother's arrest was just the beginning of their goodbyes. The eldest, Isaac, is leaving. He came to the U.S. at age eight and is undocumented, now self-deporting to join their mother in Honduras.

Your brother is leaving tomorrow.

I. PEREZ: You are strong, don't cry.

UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: Mm-hmm.

LAH: Phoebe and Angelo in limbo. They're different from Isaac and their mom. They were born here and are U.S. citizens.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hola. Hola.

LAH: Their mother is Kenya Perez, who raised the kids alone after her husband died during the pandemic. She fled Honduras 10 years ago and was detained at the border. She was eventually released. She had a legal U.S. work permit, no criminal record, paid taxes, never missed an ICE check in.

What's happening to citizen children like Phoebe and Angelo is unfolding across the country. CNN found more than 100 U.S. citizen children, many through public GoFundMe pages, essentially orphaned in recent months because of ICE enforcement. No one is tracking these children, and experts say it's just the beginning.

Estimates show nearly 2 million citizen children live in households where both parents are undocumented, vulnerable to ICE's new immigration enforcement. These children met their new reality on June 4th.

I. PEREZ: Like I woke up to, like, calls and texts on my phone. It was my mom. She was like, run, like run away as far as you can. I jumped out the window. I just kept running because I'm like, if I -- if I -- if I get taken, too, there's not going to be a way for Angela and Phoebe to like, figure out what's going on.

LAH: Without their mother, the kids were left in the care of friends like Jeff Chaney.

JEFF CHANEY, FAMILY FRIEND: This is my first time ever coming here.

LAH: Kenya had asked him to become a temporary legal guardian for the children one day before she was picked up by ICE.

CHANEY: If you would have told me, no, they're going to get families, too. I said you're crazy. Thats not going to happen.

LAH: But it is happening.

CHANEY: No. It's happening, it's happening now. It's shameful. It's shameful what our nation has become.

LAH: Today, Isaac is leaving the U.S. for Honduras. We're following him on his journey.

What is it like to leave your siblings behind?

I. PEREZ: I hate it because I know my brothers going to be scared. My sisters going to be scared.

LAH: What is it like to say goodbye to them?

I. PEREZ: I was crying. I didn't want to leave them. I thought I was going to go with them to Honduras.

LAH: Isaac is flying alone. His younger siblings were supposed to join him, but since they don't have U.S. passports yet, they can't legally fly out of the U.S.

I. PEREZ: Never thought I would be --

LAH: Worried about your brother and sister to go?

I. PEREZ: I never wanted to leave them behind. I wanted them to come with me. But --

(CRYING)

I. PEREZ: I'm here.

KENYA PEREZ, MOM: I love you. Thank you for coming. I am happy but not complete.

[19:50:00]

LAH: You're not complete.

K. PEREZ: No. I need my two kids. My daddy today. Tell me, mom, I need. I need to hug. No, it's not easy.

LAH: Kenya now lives in San Pedro Sula, a city in the northern part of Honduras. This country tops Central America in its murder rate.

This is a working-class community that is heavily controlled by gangs. The big concern about her kids coming back to this community is that the recruitment age for gangs is between 13 to 15.

Hello, Kenya.

K. PEREZ: Hello. One more time okay yep.

Welcome for my new room. This is the bed for Phoebe, Angelo and me. Probably Isaac go for my mother.

LAH: All three of you will sleep here.

K. PEREZ: Yes. I need my kid here. My daughter. My son, not easy, not easy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAH (on camera): More than a month after we first met Phoebe and Angelo, the children finally got their U.S. passports. They have now left Texas and are with their mother and brother in Honduras.

In total, Kate, it was nearly three months that Phoebe and Angelo were without their mother. We did reach out to ICE and in a statement, a spokesman said about Kenya Perez, quote, any claims by Kenya Perez now that ICE improperly separated her from her kids are patently false. Illegal alien parents willingly chose to break our nation's criminal and administrative laws and as a result of those choices, are responsible for what happens to their children. ICE goes out of the way to provide illegal alien parents who have been arrested with the opportunity to designate a guardian, or have their children accompany them when they are removed to their country of origin -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: I mean, that is just gutting all around, Kyung.

Thank you for following this story and telling it for them when they can't tell it themselves.

Ahead for us, let me tell you about this, a dramatic moment inside a Florida courtroom. The man who pointed a rifle at Donald Trump outside one of his golf courses, tried to stab himself this afternoon after being convicted of trying to assassinate the president. The scene unfolding as jurors were leaving the courtroom. That is, when Ryan Routh took a pen and repeatedly jabbed himself in the neck. Yes, Routh was quickly dragged out of the room by court martials. Routh was back -- will be back in court December 18th for his sentencing. He faces up to life in prison.

OUTFRONT next, France's Emmanuel Macron calling Donald Trump for help as he sits, stands in New York City gridlock. Harry Enten is here to tell us something we don't know.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:57:33]

BOLDUAN: Tonight, Emmanuel macron phoning a friend. The French president stuck in New York City gridlock after speaking at the United Nations. And traffic was blocked by Donald Trump's motorcade. So what's a macron to do? He calls Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MACRON: How are you? Get guess what? I'm waiting in the street because everything is frozen for you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Literally taking the incident in stride as he continued his trip on foot. I mean, it's really handling it quite well.

Harry Enten is OUTFRONT to tell us something that we don't know.

Harry, Macrons phoning a friend seems a little bit symbolic. I mean, if you look back in France, you could use all the friends he can get.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: He can use all the friends he can get. You know, people talk about the fact that Donald Trump is unpopular in this country. His unpopularity in this country, Donald Trump doesn't come anywhere close to touching Emmanuel Macron's unpopularity in France.

I mean, look at this. His approval rating in France. Macron's is 17 percent. Donald Trump looks like the most popular dude in the world, with a 44 percent approval rating here in the States.

But here's what's interesting. Look at their approval ratings in the other guy's home country. Look at this. Donald Trump's approval rating in France is just 21 percent.

BOLDUAN: That's fascinating.

ENTEN: While Emmanuel Macron's is 49 percent here in the States, so maybe they can do some trading places?

BOLDUAN: Oh, you're so cute.

Let's talk about something that everyone can agree on. And it doesn't matter where you stand on the political spectrum. Traffic is the worst thing ever.

ENTEN: Actually, I agree with you 100 percent. If I was to list my top three least favorite things would be traffic, traffic and traffic. And let me tell you, people in New York City and in Paris, they spend so much time in traffic. Oh my goodness gracious. What are we talking about here?

BOLDUAN: How much time, Harry?

ENTEN: How much time do they spend in traffic? Hours lost. Sitting in traffic 102 hours on average per year in New York. In Paris, it is 97. Both of those are near the top of the list.

Of course, I was looking at all the countries and cities that are top list. There are a lot of cities in India that are near the top of the list, as well as surprisingly, Dublin as well as London as well. BOLDUAN: Lots of traffic. That is so sad, 102 hours. That's me.

Definitely.

Tell me something I don't know.

ENTEN: I will tell you something that you don't know. It turns out that Emmanuel Macron was pretty smart to get out on foot because guess what? The average speed is for a car in midtown during un week. Look at this. It's about 2.8 miles per hour. How about walking? If you're walking, the average person can go 3.3 miles per hour.

So, you know what? Emmanuel Macron was not just getting his heart beat up and doing some good exercise.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

ENTEN: He was, in fact, going faster than he would be by car.

BOLDUAN: This is one of those moments when my father living in Indiana just starts laughing at us. He's like, what are you guys doing? Honestly.

It's great to see you, Harry.

ENTEN: Nice to see you.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

Thank you all so much for joining us.

I'm Kate Bolduan.

"AC360" starts now.