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Erin Burnett Outfront
U.S. Bracing For Government Shutdown At Midnight, First In 7 Years; Hegseth Lays Out Reforms, Decries "Stupid Rules Of Engagement"; Source: Trump-Picked Comey Prosecutor "Was Set Up To Fail". Aired 7-8p ET
Aired September 30, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:26]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
The breaking news: votes fail and a government shutdown now hours away as Trump threatens to fire federal workers if there's no deal. Jim Cramer, the host of "Mad Money" on CNBC, is OUTFRONT.
Plus, Trump and Hegseth upending America's rules of engagement, railing against what they call a woke military. Hegseth making it clear he wants more men working for him. A retired Army general with a stark warning to all Americans tonight.
And set up to fail. Breaking details just in about the prosecutor Trump handpicked to oversee the James Comey case. Sources telling CNN Lindsey Halligan was a, quote, "lamb sent to slaughter." How come?
Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
And OUTFRONT tonight, we do begin with the breaking news of fail. Last-minute votes to stop a shutdown have failed, and at this moment, we are now just a couple of hours away, a few hours away from a government shutdown, the first in seven years.
I'll show you, Capitol Hill live pictures as we count down to a midnight deadline. It doesn't look like much is happening there because it isn't because they failed.
And tonight, Trump is talking about cutting vast numbers of American jobs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We can do things during the shutdown that are irreversible, that are bad for them. And irreversible by them, like, cutting vast numbers of people out, cutting things that they like, cutting programs that they like.
A lot of good can come down from shutdowns. We can get rid of a lot of things that we didn't want.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: A lot of good, he says.
But to the workers involved, Trump's team isn't talking about a lot of good. They're blaming Democrats. Workers at several agencies received emails today that read, unfortunately, Democrats are blocking this continuing resolution in the U.S. Senate due unrelated policy demands. The administration trying to pass the blame, which, frankly, as you listen to this may sound like politics as usual, although other times we've covered this, right? There hasn't been a shutdown.
At this point, it is pretty much certain that there's a shutdown coming, and it comes on a day when Trump spent an undisclosed amount of money flying American generals in from countries around the world, an absolutely extraordinary and unprecedented move, where his now secretary of war told them America's fighters must hunt and kill enemies.
We have new reporting on this ahead, because this is not a time of politics as usual. And the usual shutdown showdown. It is actually a time where truth itself is being tested. And when it comes to the shutdown himself, even tonight, Trump is claiming Democrats want to give health care to millions of undocumented immigrants.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We cannot allow them to charge tremendous amounts of money for health care for people that aren't even citizens.
Our country can't handle people that come into our country illegally, and they want to give them full health care benefits.
What they're really asking for is they want to pay for illegal aliens.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, just on the basic facts here, the Democrats' proposal does not provide free health care for undocumented immigrants.
Illegal immigrants are barred from federally funded health care programs. I mean, the wording on the healthcare.gov website itself says the undocumented immigrants can't get marketplace health coverage. Undocumented immigrants are also ineligible for other federal programs, Medicaid, Medicare, and CHIP, the Children's Health Insurance Program, all of them.
And the Democrats budget proposal does not make them eligible for those programs. The Democrats want is to essentially restore recent cuts to health care to migrants who have protected status, as in people who are legally in the United States of America.
Manu Raju is OUTFRONT live on Capitol Hill to begin our coverage.
And, Manu, a beautiful day, beautiful sunset behind you. And after that sunset, finalizes, were going to end up having a shutdown. It seems pretty much a sure thing? MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, 100 percent sure thing.
In fact, senators are leaving right now. They're headed home for the night. The House is out of session, and the bill is about to fail. The bill that would. The only real path out of a government shutdown. The Republican plan that actually passed the United States house last week, about a week and a half ago, along -- largely along party lines that would keep the government open for seven weeks now, will be blocked by Democrats in the Senate. The vote is now 53-44. It is still ongoing, but there are not enough votes to break a filibuster, which requires 60 votes to advance.
Just three Democrats have voted to advance this bill. That includes Senator John Fetterman, who is someone who has long been opposed to Democrats shutdown plans.
[19:05:01]
Also, Catherine Cortez Masto of Nevada, also voting with Republicans on this, and Angus King of Maine, an independent who caucuses with Democrats, also voted for it. He told me before heading into this, he was still torn and uncertain on where to go.
But other Democrats who voted for a stopgap measure back in March to keep the government open, along with Chuck Schumer at that time, say that things have changed in their view, they think that the health care crisis has gotten much worse under the Trump administration policies. They are calling for the One Big, Beautiful Bill Act's Medicaid cuts that are in that plan to be reversed. They want to extend Obamacare subsidies that are set to expire at years end, and they want to try to rein in Donald Trump's effort to cut federal spending without the consent of Congress, something they say that is blatantly unconstitutional.
But Democrats say that there is -- Republicans say there is no way they could consider that now. So, the question, Erin, is now that the government is shut down, how long will it last? What will it take to get out of it? And how painful will this be for so many federal employees who will be furloughed, who could lose their jobs for good, and for people who are relying on government services that they could see soon dried up -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right, Manu. Manu, thank you very much.
And as Manu said, sure thing at this point for a shutdown first time in seven years and one where the majority leader had said there -- once it happens, John Thune has said there won't be negotiations with Democrats.
So, we are going to be an unprecedented territory. And joining me now, two people at the center of this storm, first, Republican Senator Kevin Cramer. And in a few moments, we'll be joined by Democratic Senator Mark Kelly.
I want to start, though, with you, Senator Cramer, if I may, and thank you so much for taking the time.
So here we are. Trump says it's probably likely, but you heard Manu Raju, this is done. And there is going to be a shutdown at midnight, the first in seven years. Is that where we are?
SEN. KEVIN CRAMER (R-ND): Well, it certainly looks that way, 53 votes are not enough. Even if a couple more votes come in, we're not going to get to 60. I think that's by design. I think that's the commitment Chuck Schumer has made to the far left in his party. It's the commitment that he's gotten the vast majority of his Democratic colleagues to agree with for tonight.
I expect and hope that this will be a short Schumer shutdown. But we need the sooner we get the shutdown done and get the government back running, we can get back to the negotiating table where these big issues like the Biden -- the Biden bonus premium credit can be discussed in a proper forum. But we have a bill before us that's already passed the House of Representatives.
That fact is oftentimes forgotten. And Manu did point that out, but its passed the House, which is no small feat. And we have the opportunity to keep the negotiations going by keeping the government open.
BURNETT: Okay. Trump said today a lot of good can come from shutdowns. And then he added a couple of specifics. I wanted to play them for you, Senator.
K. CRAMER: Sure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We can get rid of a lot of things that we didn't want, and they'd be Democrat things, but they want open borders. They want men playing in women's sports.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Senator Cramer, you know, just in a moment like this of such seriousness is this really about stuff like men playing in women's sports?
K. CRAMER: Well, I don't know whether it is or it isn't, but the issue of the moment is keeping the government open, and the Democrats have chosen not to do that. This is not like complicated, Erin. This is a clean C.R., something Democrats voted for 13 times in the Biden administration when Chuck Schumer was the majority leader.
So, this is not -- you know, this isn't, you know, unknown territory to anybody. This is become far too common, quite honestly. And the other thing that's discouraging about it is we actually have real momentum in regular order in the appropriations process.
Last year, Chuck Schumer didn't allow one appropriations bill to come to the Senate floor. We've already passed three of them on the senate floor and on our way to passing just about all of the rest of them. And with agreement, by the way, with the House in many cases.
So, all of that momentum is being closed up now because Chuck Schumer is afraid of AOC more than he is afraid of the consequences of a government shutdown.
BURNETT: You said something important, though. You said it's a clean bill, right? Meaning it doesn't have all sorts of other stuff added on to it.
K. CRAMER: Right, yeah.
BURNETT: But Senator Schumer categorically says it isn't. Let me play for you what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), SENATE MINORITY LEADER: The leader says it's a clean bill. It's a partisan bill, not once were Democrats asked for what input should be in the bill. We were not told about it.
So, the leader will say it's clean. No, it's not clean because there was no discussion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Does he have a point, Senator? I mean, if the shoe were on the other foot, would you be saying the exact same thing?
K. CRAMER: Well, first of all, it is clean. And not only is it clean, it is a continuing resolution of the continuing resolution that Democrats helped pass in March, which was a continuing resolution of the bill of the Biden budget from last year.
Furthermore, the four chairs that the chairman and the ranking Democrat of both the House Appropriations Committee and the Senate Appropriations Committee agreed to this deal. This was the deal they negotiated. That wasn't good enough for Chuck Schumer, because his polling showed that he was in trouble.
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He's probably lose a primary that he probably won't be retained as majority leader next year. And to which I say, okay, you've had your time, Chuck, except that do the right thing and just stop trying to play to this far left fringe in your party. And fortunately, three Democrats tonight realized that and came along with us. Which is why I don't think this is going to be a very long shutdown at all.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Senator Cramer, I appreciate your time. And thank you for taking the time to talk to me tonight.
K. CRAMER: My pleasure.
BURNETT: And as promised, now I do want to go to the Democratic Senator Mark Kelly. And, Senator Kelly, what do you say? Senator Cramer points out that
that three Democrats have joined in. Your colleague, Senator King among them, to vote with Republicans. And obviously, you are not among them. What made you say no?
SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): Well, Erin, I appreciate my colleague from North Dakota, but this is fundamentally a question about how much do people have to pay for their health care. And Donald Trump and Republicans in the House and Senate prioritized billionaires over hardworking people and stuck them with a really bad deal, and they're going to see their health care costs skyrocket.
In Arizona, you know, folks are going to lose $475 a month of help. And what that means is we estimate about 100,000 people are going to lose their health care because they can't afford it anymore.
So that is what this is fundamentally about. And it's pretty easily fixed. My Republican colleagues know what they can do. Not so sure the White House, the president understands how this works, but there is clearly a path forward here.
BURNETT: So let me ask you about what's happening here. And I know, you know, Senator Thune had said, once it shuts down, there's no negotiations. And we'll see. I know Senator Cramer is hopeful it's short, but as I said, we're not in normal times. We're in extraordinary times. And the White House Budget Office is saying prepare for mass firings if it shuts down.
And I wanted to read for you something, I don't know if you saw it, but conservative commentator Erick Erickson had a really interesting post on social media that I saw. I want to read it to you, Senator.
KELLY: Yeah.
BURNETT: He said, here's the trap Democrats are walking into with the shutdown. When the agencies are funded again, because the staff were fired and laid off, no -- the agencies can be expanded and hirings can happen. New people can fill the jobs. MAGA can embed into the bureaucracy suddenly protected from firings, thanks to both the civil service laws and the rulings of progressive judges against Trump in the last nine months.
Suddenly, Democratic constituencies are out of the bureaucracy. MAGA is in. Does that give you pause?
KELLY: Well, Erin, I believe you've been watching very closely with this president, and the people around him have been doing for the last eight and a half months. They've been doing just that kind of stuff. We have no expectation that they're going to stop.
Things have gotten very unaffordable for the American people. This president ran on lowering costs. And if you look at the data, as I do, often costs are up, utility costs, you know, natural gas, food and now health care, prescription drug prices are up dramatically in some cases. And this president is doing nothing to help. In fact, what he did is exactly the opposite. And, you know, Senator
Thune says, well, we're not negotiating anymore. Well, for the last two weeks, there was no negotiation except for, what, one hour in the White House with the president that doesn't even understand how this works.
BURNETT: And so, how long do you think this will be? Do you share Senator Cramer's view that this will be short, or are you concerned, given that, as I said, we are not in normal times, we are not in normal shutdown showdown mode. That's not the way -- where this country is right now, that this could be different.
KELLY: Well, I hope it's really short. I mean, it's pretty easily fixed. You just extend what are called these tax credits for the Affordable Care Act for people getting their health care on the exchange. And we've got an easy way out of this.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Senator Kelly, I appreciate your time. And thank you very much for being with us, sir.
KELLY: All right. Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, we have breaking news. Pete Hegseth laying out his vision for the U.S. military. Now that, of course, he is the secretary of war, one that upends America's rules of engagement.
And Jim Cramer is here with me tonight, my friend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM CRAMER, CNBC HOST: Costco, try getting the gold. That is we try every week to buy Costco gold on the website three times a week. Sold out, sold out, sold out, sold out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well guess what? Gold just hit another record high. I mean, it surged since then. So does my friend Jim still think that right now, with all of this crisis going on, gold is the way to go?
And new video tonight capturing ICE agency -- ICE agents shoving journalists to the floor. One actually got sent to the hospital and we'll tell you what happened.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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BURNETT: Breaking news, the president and the secretary of war in a truly historic moment today, flipping decades of U.S. policy on its head, addressing hundreds of America's most senior military officers that they had brought in from around the world in an unprecedented moment, laying out a new vision for how the American military will look and behave.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) PETE HEGSETH, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: We also don't fight with stupid rules of engagement. We untie the hands of our warfighters to intimidate, demoralize, hunt and kill the enemies of our country. No more politically correct and overbearing rules of engagement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: The U.S., of course, is respected around the world and trusted in fields of war because of its rules of engagement, which are established for many things, including to minimize civilian casualties, to protect soldiers from being hauled in front of military tribunals for alleged war crimes, to prevent the kinds of things that we talk about happening all the time at the hands of Russian soldiers that are widely seen as so disgusting and so wrong.
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America is right to be proud that our soldiers do not behave that way.
Colonel Cedric Leighton telling CNN that this would be, quote, the biggest mistake the United States could make. Hegseth also spent a lot of time today talking on what he about, what he wants the U.S. military and the people in it to actually look like.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEGSETH: For too long, we've promoted too many uniformed leaders for the wrong reasons, based on their race, based on gender quotas, based on historic so-called firsts. Every designated combat arms position returns to the highest male standard only. If women can make it excellent, if not, it is what it is. If that means no women qualify for some combat jobs, so be it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OUTFRONT now, retired Army Major General Marilyn Quagliotti. She served in the U.S. military for 32 years, becoming the first woman to command a battalion in a combat division. She was also the first woman promoted to general officer and received a second star.
So, Major General Quagliotti, I very much appreciate your time.
A lot to talk about here, but let's just start with the words from the now secretary of war, who said that the United States does not, quote, fight with stupid rules of engagement. We untie the hands of our warfighters to intimidate, demoralize, hunt and kill.
So, what do you -- what are the impact of those words? No -- we're not going to fight with stupid rules of engagement, talking about hunting and killing our enemies?
MAJ. GEN. MARILYN QUAGLIOTTI, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Well, first of all, we don't want to be an army that does that. Once you lose all discipline with an army, what you end up with is what we saw in Russia. The American people do not want to see their army or their military act like that. That's not who we are or who we think we are as Americans. So that was very disturbing to hear him say that.
It was also disturbing for him to talk about changing standards that really we have had lots of standards, and standards are good, and standards sometimes need to be elevated, especially if you've been at war for 20 years. We go through periods of time, long, long periods of time where people are in war, and standards lapse. So, what he said about standards, I have no problem with. It was some of the other things that he mentioned that were really disturbing.
BURNETT: Okay. So, tell me, such as what? And I just want to again get back to you, right. You were -- you were the first woman in the United States to command a battalion in a combat division, right? So, you come with that when he says it's the highest male standard only. And if that means no women in combat, so be it.
QUAGLIOTTI: Well --
BURNETT: How do you see that?
QUAGLIOTTI: Yeah.
BURNETT: And what else particularly troubles you?
QUAGLIOTTI: Well, I think what he's talking about is physical training standards. And we've always had two separate standards. One for women, one for men.
Be honest with you, I'm out now, so I don't know what they're doing now, but those standards were pretty tough. And if he's saying that if you have an MOS or a military occupational specialty in combat, and you want to maintain the same standard for everybody in that role, I have no problem with that. Okay, fine.
We've also had height and weight standards, and men and women have had different height and weight standards. You don't say to men you have to meet women's height and weight standards. So, establishing one standard for everybody doesn't make a lot of sense.
If you're going to do it for a job and say, if you want this job, you have to have this standard, that's fine. But that takes a lot of work and a lot of effort to put that in place.
BURNETT: So, what troubles you the most then?
QUAGLIOTTI: I guess what troubles me the most was just his belief that we don't have to follow the rules of war. We don't have to abide by the Geneva Conventions, which we are signed on to. And rules of engagement -- you can argue all you want to about rules of engagement, but those are put in there mainly to protect civilians during war.
And, you may not like it, but, you know, we don't drop 2,000-pound bombs on apartment buildings, for example.
[19:25:08]
BURNETT: Well, right, people look at what's happening in Gaza, or they look what's happening in Ukraine. Nobody wants to have that happen at the hands of American soldiers. I can't imagine anybody would. Hegseth did also say, though, and perhaps it's part of the reason that he wanted to fly them all in. Of course, the irony of that happening on a day where the government is going to shut down, that they have to get in line or step aside.
Here's how he put it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEGSETH: But if the words I'm speaking today are making your heart sink, then you should do the honorable thing and resign. We would thank you for your service.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So, do you think we're going to see resignations or no?
QUAGLIOTTI: I don't -- I don't think so. Not right away. Flag officers and all officers really are used to policy changes. You have a new administration, policy change. Policy changes happen, and then you're responsible for executing those policies.
If you come to a point in time when you really cannot execute those policies, as long as they're legal and ethical and you no longer can support something because it's not legal or ethical, or you just say, I just can't do this, this is wrong, then, okay, maybe it's time for you to resign.
But, you know, I don't see this as a full-scale resignation of everybody who was sitting in that room. I just don't think that's going to happen. Nor should it.
BURNETT: All right. Well, General Quagliotti, I appreciate your time, and thank you very much.
QUAGLIOTTI: You're welcome.
BURNETT: And next, it's time for Cramerica. "Mad Money's" Jim Cramer on the shutdown that's about to happen. And a whole lot more because we've -- we've had something special to go through here, kind of waving it around.
We'll talk about gold. We'll talk about crypto. And Jim will be here in the flash.
Plus, breaking news, KFILE reporting. You will see first OUTFRONT on the top prosecutor Trump tapped to take down Comey once railed against using the Justice Department for getting political revenge.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:31:49]
BURNETT: Breaking news, we are now hours away from a federal government shutdown, and it's going to happen. My friend Jim Cramer of CNBC's "Mad Money" and "Squawk on the Street" is weighing in here tonight, not holding back the shutdown. It's going to start in a few hours would mean no monthly jobs reports this week. Key inflation numbers set to come out, won't be released either. That leaves more uncertainty and chaos for the fed and for the country.
Jim Cramer is OUTFRONT now, and today is the first day you can get his book. The author of how to make money in any market just came out today.
JIM CRAMER, CNBC HOST: I start my tour with you because you're the best there is.
BURNETT: And because we are, we are such dear friends, I am honored. Thank you. Day one --
J. CRAMER: I am thrilled to be here. I like it when the truth comes out. And the truth has always been here. It's your province. Congratulations.
BURNETT: Well --
J. CRAMER: Look, this -- this shutdown. You're absolutely right. In terms of things that won't be provided, are the numbers. So you have a guy like Jay Powell under constant fire from the president, right?
BURNETT: Right.
J. CRAMER: Who's trying to figure out what the right thing to do is for the country. And now he's going to fly even more blind because it's very difficult to figure out what's going on.
I will say that from the point of view of people who are watching when it comes to the stock market, I've looked at the last six of these shutdowns and believe it or not, the markets been up at the end of the night.
BURNETT: So, do you think -- and as I said at the beginning of the program, right, the context of this shutdown isn't -- because you said the last six shutdowns.
J. CRAMER: Yeah.
BURNETT: It's not shutdowns as usual, right? We're in extraordinary times.
J. CRAMER: Right.
BURNETT: And extraordinary doesn't mean good, right? We're in tough times. We're in challenging times. So, do you feel confident looking at the -- you know, how much how much weight do you put on that?
J. CRAMER: Well, I just -- look, if it were the actual treasury debt ceiling, that complicated thing about whether we will pay our bonds back --
BURNETT: Right. J. CRAMER: I would be frightened and I -- and I don't frighten easily
because you can't mess with that. We have to pay our bills.
BURNETT: Yeah.
J. CRAMER: This is more of a I feel terrible, could be 700,000, 900,000 people furloughed. Furloughed means whatever you were thinking about in your life doing, it's not going to happen.
BURNETT: On hold, yeah.
J. CRAMER: And we want everyone to have a, you know, we want people to have to have prosperity. And those people will not have prosperity because of something that is just Republicans and Democrats can't agree. And they suffer.
But is -- it has not historically been a longer term issue because we still pay our bills.
BURNETT: All right. Well, and hopefully that is the case because as you point out, that once you get past certain stages of shutdown, which we have not done before.
J. CRAMER: And that's the one --
BURNETT: We have not done before.
J. CRAMER: That's the one where we can't borrow, and that no so great.
BURNETT: All right. So -- but the context, when I say about extraordinary times, part of these extraordinary times are an extraordinary level of debt, an unacceptable level of debt for this country.
J. CRAMER: Thirty-seven trillion.
BURNETT: You know, which even 10 years ago, people would have thought was absolutely unimaginable. But yet, here we are. And in your book, you talk about gold, right?
J. CRAMER: Yes.
BURNETT: You talk about gold. And today, by the way, it hit another record high.
J. CRAMER: Because it should.
BURNETT: Because people are scared.
J. CRAMER: Yes.
BURNETT: And you talk about Costco gold bars.
J. CRAMER: Betcha.
BURNETT: I'm doing the whiteboard. You know what? I have this thing, the whiteboard. I had to do it with you.
J. CRAMER: That's just called talent. I'm looking at raw talent.
BURNETT: Manzo and Jamie are laughing because --
J. CRAMER: Because you have another Picasso.
BURNETT: Raw talent? Yes, that's my talent.
Okay, so on January 5th of 2024, you say buy Costco gold bars is a smart idea.
J. CRAMER: The best. And boy, I'll tell you, we go in every day to try to buy them. We went to Costco just ten days ago, they had none.
[19:35:03]
BURNETT: And you still couldn't.
J. CRAMER: We did get managed to get some, though we did manage to get some. I like gold, I like the bars. I like the gold. You remember from your old stock day?
BURNETT: Yeah.
J. CRAMER: This is a -- that's a tracking stocks. Gold. Yeah. I don't like silver as much. And I like crypto. As crazy as that is, because they can't print more of it. The government can't.
BURNETT: I want to ask you about crypto, but I want to first let everyone know how right you are.
January 5th, 2024, Costco gold bars were 2,000 bucks, I think just a little bit under 2000 bucks at Costco. Okay? This is when Jim makes his recommendation. Okay?
In April of that year, you and I were talking about it. You were -- you went again. You said. Three days a week you try to buy in. Here you are.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J. CRAMER: Costco, try getting the gold. That is, we try every week to buy Costco gold in the website three times a week. Sold out, sold out, sold out, sold out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Okay, since then 65 percent.
J. CRAMER: Well, I'll tell you -- you know, you know, my wife, Lisa. I tell her constantly, I don't care. Go in early, go in often, whatever. You can get whatever's available that day. Even a CEO --
BURNETT: She's watching right now and saying, Jim is seriously saying that I go into Costco. J. CRAMER: Of course, because she's much better than you. And I blew
her off because of my book tour. Can you imagine? She wants to kill me. She said she was doing facetime. Where are you?
I said I'm being with Erin Burnett. And she said --
BURNETT: She said, I'm in Corsica. Okay.
J. CRAMER: But she knows the imperative of gold has a lot to do with the fact that how are we going to pay back $37 trillion?
BURNETT: Okay. How, how?
J. CRAMER: How are we going to do it?
BURNETT: Okay. Well, I don't know. And I'm terrified about it. And I've been thinking about this for there's a time I used to count every day since how many days it had been since we lost our AAA credit rating, and it got up to thousands of days. And Jeff Zucker said, why are you still putting this thing on the air? And here we are. It's still --
J. CRAMER: We still look at our kids, our kids -- one of the reasons why I wrote this is because younger people don't believe. They don't believe in anything. I think you can still believe in the companies that make money.
I understand that you'd be worried about the deficit, but that does not mean you should forego investing, because then you're going to have -- you're never going to be able to retire. And this book is designed to make -- I don't want you dying at your desk, because there's no day that you can ever take off, because you haven't made enough money. Saving matters. But you can also have insurance by owning crypto or gold.
BURNETT: So okay, so gold you said buy. So that brings me to crypto.
So you posted, buy crypto, I saw this morning. And it was actually the debt clock. This debt clock, which you and I have been looking at for years, I mean, and I can't even believe they have to keep adding, they have to keep adding little spaces on it.
J. CRAMER: Stunning.
BURNETT: And your family share almost $1 million for every American family. It is. It is honestly disgusting what --
J. CRAMER: It is.
BURNETT: -- our government has put us in in both.
J. CRAMER: Both parties were equally involved. Both were negligent, both were irresponsible.
BURNETT: So, but crypto. Crypto is scary. Most people still do not understand how it -- how it -- how it operates, and in a world where debt actually causes real financial chaos and crisis, how does crypto hold up?
J. CRAMER: Well, it just holds up because it's not connected to a government. And I think that it's governments that are irresponsible.
It is mysterious. That's not a good thing. It's not alchemy. There is a limited number. You can use it to buy things, but it tends to be a store of wealth.
And I'll tell you, Jay Powell, our Federal Reserve chairman, I think would argue that it is an acceptable store of wealth. So, it's a way to be able to put something away that can't be -- where there's no printing press. And that's what I'm concerned about.
The printing press of the government, you -- I tell my kids, look, there's the main one, obviously, bitcoin.
BURNETT: Bitcoin.
J. CRAMER: But Ethereum is used for transactions. I've used Ethereum for transactions. They didn't go well, but I used them.
(LAUGHTER)
BURNETT: I don't know that that's a ringing endorsement.
Okay. So, but you would even at this -- I mean, because I look at these prices, it's like, okay, it was $2,000, now it's $200,000. And it's still -- it's still going up.
J. CRAMER: Look, I completely agree with you. It does seem phantasmagorical that it would be this high. And I do say, people, maybe bitcoin has to come back under $100,000 to do a little buying. You can do it in an ETF now. I do think that you need to be diversified away from just the dollar because of what's happened and how debased the dollar has gotten.
You're a world traveler, you know, for the first time, it seems like we almost have a policy of let the dollar go down, where historically, you and I have said, listen.
BURNETT: Strong dollar. Yeah, yeah. No, no. And it's down this year. Right.
Okay. So, you have a whole chapter in your book on Nvidia, and you talk a lot about the Magnificent Seven. Yeah. Now those are seven stocks that make up a quarter of all the capital spending in the entire S&P 500. They're up 250 percent since ChatGPT launched. I mean that is stunning. And the broader market is like not even along for the ride. So it's like these seven are pulling the whole thing up by the puppet strings.
There is one stock, though, not in the magnificent seven that you talk a lot about. And I've been watching you on Twitter.
[19:40:00]
I've been watching you and people turn sour on it, and you've stood firm. And that is Palantir. It's an A.I. company. Let me play you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J. CRAMER: Palantir is a company that is going to get 100. When there's 100, I said it was going to go to 150; 150 I said, it's going to go to 200. And I'm not backing away from that.
Palantir technologies, the A.I. fueled software company, has become one of the hottest stocks there is. I predict, a total blowout that will smoke the shorts.
Palantir I still think it's going to $200.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
J. CRAMER: It's 182, when I went out strongly.
BURNETT: You said buy it on its IPO. That was five years ago today. Five years ago today --
J. CRAMER: By the way, they hate me.
BURNETT: One thousand seven hundred percent.
J. CRAMER: This guy Karp, he hates me. I could care less.
BURNETT: Alex Karp.
J. CRAMER: He's from Philly. He's -- he thinks he's, like, more of a trash talker than I am. Give me a break.
BURNETT: So. And you still like this?
J. CRAMER: Oh my God. Yeah. 100. Look, I'm not going to raise my price target until we get to 200. But it's not that -- it's $18 away, okay? They're having a good quarter.
BURNETT: So, before you go, I got to ask you something because I've known you a long --
J. CRAMER: I have nothing to do.
BURNETT: Well, I would like to just keep you a whole hour, you know, but were not fully streaming it, so I still have commercial breaks.
J. CRAMER: No problem.
BURNETT: Can I -- can I tell you something? I read this book and I've known you. Youve written book after book after book. You know, you talk about Lisa in this book, you talk about your girls. Yes. And I just want to ask you what it's like when you're done.
J. CRAMER: Oh, my God, don't make me go. I don't know.
BURNETT: No, I don't mean done, done, Jim. I mean done your book, I mean done. J. CRAMER: I finished that book. Yes. Oh my God.
BURNETT: Oh, my God.
J. CRAMER: I thought I'd like, done -- I don't know, I thought maybe I'm retiring.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: No, you talk about the fact that when it's done, you can actually return to doing things that you love.
J. CRAMER: Okay. There was a tremendous amount of tension on this, on this book. Yes. In part because I had to get it from 500 to 250. But, of course, I was --
BURNETT: Pages.
J. CRAMER: We have a different administration from when I started the book, and it's kind of a change of pace. I don't know if you got that, but there was a different kind of read you had to do, so you had to kind of take the book and go like, where's the, you know, you had to go like and then quickly read. Thats right. And so, what -- I had to redo the book because I had to say, listen, we got to go a little bit more, about next ten years and not the next two years. And so that was harder. But my, my, my wife and kids were furious at me because it was every Saturday and every Sunday.
And it kind of -- look, I love the book was a work of love, but it was also a work of hate, meaning that they hated me. Even the dogs hated me. I dedicated the book to the dogs.
BURNETT: I know. I saw -- I know the book I dedicated.
J. CRAMER: I'm sorry what I did to the dogs.
BURNETT: I know the dogs. But I love your books.
J. CRAMER: Thank you. And I love you. And I love your family.
BURNETT: And as for Jim -- and as for Jim, the next for Jim is still always helping people. So that's what it is. Whatever it will.
J. CRAMER: Be no different from --
BURNETT: Probably no bike tours in Corsica, though.
All right. Great to see you, Jim.
J. CRAMER: Thank you, Erin.
BURNETT: All right.
J. CRAMER: Thank you so much.
BURNETT: It is great to see you. And next, the breaking news why sources say the top prosecutor, Trump
tapped to indict Comey was set up to fail, calling her a, quote, "lamb sent to slaughter". As we have new video just in tonight that shows ICE agents shoving journalists to the ground. We're going to show you exactly what happened here and explain.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:47:18]
BURNETT: Breaking news set up to fail. Sources telling CNN that President Trump's handpicked U.S. attorney overseeing the case against James Comey was, quote, set up to fail in her first ever presentation before a grand jury. The grand jury did ultimately indict James Comey on two of three counts. But according to a source, quote, Halligan was the lamb sent to slaughter.
Evan Perez broke this reporting, and he's OUTFRONT now.
Evan, of course, you know, she was willing to take the job. What does your source mean that Halligan was set up to fail?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know, Erin. That behind the scenes at the Justice Department, there's been a lot of tensions over this case in a week. A week ago today, Halligan was doing a crash course working with FBI agents, working with FBI lawyers to try to get ready to do this presentation herself, because we know lawyers inside that office had declined to bring this case. They believe that it was weak.
We know that some of the doubts were shared by Attorney General Pam Bondi and by Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche. And we know that one of the things that happened was, you know, they declined to even give her attorneys to try to help her get ready for this grand jury presentation. We're told by sources that that FBI agents were looking for a paralegal to come and help the presentation that day, and they were -- they were denied that help.
So, all of this puts into perspective that Halligan really kind of performed against all those odds, right? She was able to get two of those three counts approved by the grand jury. And it really, again, goes to show you how behind the scenes, despite all the celebration from the attorney general, from everyone else, they really thought that she was going to crash and burn last Thursday when she made her debut before a grand jury.
We got a couple of statements from the Justice Department, from the White House, the Justice Department accused us of sowing division, and they said Lindsey Halligan is fully supported by the attorney general, deputy attorney general and the entire team at Main Justice. We also got a statement from Karoline Leavitt, the White House spokeswoman. She said President Trump stands by Attorney General Bondi, Deputy Attorney General Blanche, and the U.S. Attorney Lindsey Halligan.
She is not out of the woods, though. Erin, you know, these cases are very hard to do. And we still don't know who's actually going to try this case if it gets to trial.
BURNETT: Right, right. Of course we do know, right. She has not prosecuted a case before.
Evan, thank you very much.
And for more breaking news on this front, we've got KFILE. KFILE has an investigation tonight revealing that Halligan's history actually includes railing against the Justice Department and accusations of the DOJ playing politics. The very same thing, of course, the Trump administration accused of doing in the case against the former FBI director, which Lindsey Halligan is now leading.
[19:50:05]
KFILE's Andrew Kaczynski is OUTFRONT.
So, Andrew, what more can you tell us about what you found here?
ANDREW KACZYNSKI, CNN KFILE SENIOR EDITOR: Yeah. So, we looked at years of her media appearances, radio interviews, TV interviews from her time as president, Trump's personal attorney and surprise, she used to actually have a very different view of politically charged prosecutions.
She argued that politically charged prosecutions would unravel the justice system. This is 2022 when she's representing President Trump into this system in which every president is indicting the last president or their staff. She said that the justice system against Trump was corrupt. She called these probes into Trump election interference.
And she even said the FBIs actions around the raid at Mar-a-Lago were the first step to tyranny. Listen to a little bit of what we found.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDSEY HALLIGAN, TRUMP'S PERSONAL ATTORNEY: The power to prosecute people criminally rests exclusively with the executive branch. That means it's up to the sitting president to ensure that our criminal system does not unravel into retaliatory or political prosecutions of former presidents and other government officials. Just imagine what if -- what if it is now protocol for a new president of the United States to prosecute his or her predecessor?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KACZYNSKI: Just imagine. Right? So, she also repeatedly --
BURNETT: I was laughing as it was being said, because I can't believe it's just really quite incredible.
KACZYNSKI: So, she also argued that all Americans across the political spectrum, opposed what she said was an overreaching Department of Justice. She slammed the Biden administration after that Mar-a-Lago raid is out of control. Listen to a little bit more of what she said. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HALLIGAN: The government seems to be out of control. It's plagued with manipulation, corruption, greed, deceit and fraud. This incident has ironically created bipartisanship on this issue because no American, whether Democrat or Republican, wants an overreaching Department of Justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Has the DOJ responded?
KACZYNSKI: So, we reached out to the DOJ. We say, how do you square all this stuff versus now versus then? They gave us a statement that said, quote, "No one is above the law. The Justice Department will continue to follow the facts and hold those who abuse positions of power accountable. Separately, we talked to a source close to Halligan who said that they insisted the case was not political. They relied on new evidence. She worked with the FBI, so it will be interesting to see how this all goes.
BURNETT: Sure will.
All right. Thank you very much. KFILE with new reporting.
And next, we have new video in tonight showing ICE agents shoving journalists to the ground. One of them was sent to the hospital.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:56:26]
BURNETT: Breaking news, dramatic new video of ICE agents shoving journalists to the ground. Masked officials grabbed a reporter as he went to photograph them, apprehending an immigrant inside a public elevator. This is according to AM New York. At least one reporter required a neck brace loaded onto a stretcher, taken to a hospital.
Immigration is among the most divisive issues right now in America. One of the many issues that independent voters have to grapple with.
Jeff Zeleny is OUTFRONT with this special report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA MUNSON, MARYLAND INDEPENDENT VOTER: I don't want to get sucked into well, I'm a Republican, so I will only vote Republican or I'm Democrat, so I'll only vote Democrat. I -- there's candidates -- both candidates could be equally good or equally bad.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Lisa Munson, a Maryland mother of three is one of the most important wild cards in American politics.
Why are you an independent?
MUNSON: I never wanted to declare either Republican or Democrat. I guess.
ZELENY (voice-over): She's an independent voter.
MUNSON: There you go.
ZELENY (voice-over): But a conservative one, supporting Donald Trump in the last three elections.
A conversation around Munson's dining room table reveals frustration at Washington.
MUNSON: No one seems to want to work together to get things done.
ZELENY (voice-over): And helps explain the findings of a new CNN poll that shows the mythical swing voter, one who goes back and forth in each election may be a relic of the past.
More Americans identify as independents than as Republicans or Democrats. Yet some lean right, like Munson or left, like Ryan Wissman, a Pennsylvania voter who also took part in the CNN poll.
RYAN WISSMAN, PENNSYLVANIA INDEPENDENT VOTER: I feel very apprehensive about the state of the country right now.
ZELENY: Why apprehensive?
WISSMAN: Because it seems to me that we are going down a path that we've maybe never gone down before.
ZELENY (voice-over): To better understand this influential piece of the electorate, a CNN analysis finds independents breakdown in categories like this Democratic and Republican lookalikes, the disappointed middle, upbeat outsiders and the checked out.
The bottom line, the definition of an elusive swing voter has shifted in a divided America and has more to do with political engagement than persuasion.
Despite different views, many find common ground in their disdain or disinterest toward political parties and leaders.
We asked many independents who responded to the poll for one word to describe the state of politics.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Flammable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chaotic.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Blindsided.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Narrow-minded.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Downward spiral.
ZELENY (voice-over): When we spoke to Chris Burroughs in Arizona, we asked him this. Do you believe Americas best days are ahead of us or behind us? What
do you think?
CHRIS BURROUGHS, ARIZONA INDEPENDENT VOTER: I would like to think that they're ahead of us. However, I think our best days are behind us lately, you know? And that's really a sad way to feel.
ZELENY (voice-over): He's hardly alone. In fact, a majority of Americans agreed. The best days are behind us. The first time in at least a decade of CNN polling.
Across the ideological spectrum of independents, a shared feeling of discontent runs deep. Among those who voted for Kamala Harris like Wissman --
WISSMAN: The rhetoric is beyond anything that I could have possibly imagined. I think the divisions in our country, the speed at which we are apparently losing some rights that we've just always had, frightens me quite a bit.
ZELENY (voice-over): And even among some who voted for Trump, like Munson.
MUNSON: I liked what he did the first term. I liked that he shook stuff up. Unfortunately, he's taking his ego I think a little too far. And it's all about him. And how about he's -- how he's perceived and that's really -- it's not about you.
ZELENY (voice-over): Jeff Zeleny, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZELENY: Thanks to Jeff.
And thanks to all of you for joining us.
Anderson starts now.
