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Erin Burnett Outfront
No Sign of Trump On First Day of Shutdown, Mass Firings "Imminent"; Lutnick: Epstein Got Deal In Exchange For Compromising Videos; Hegseth Plans To Use Polygraphs, Non-Disclosure Agreements. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired October 01, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:34]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
No sign of Trump on the first day of a government shutdown. The president nowhere to be seen. His team threatening mass firings, not furloughs, firings. Economists are warning this could be the start of a recession.
And a shocking split over Epstein. A top member of Trump's administration suggesting federal prosecutors struck a deal with the sex offender after Epstein handed over compromising videos of his powerful friends. So, do those videos really exist? And how does Trump feel about Howard Lutnick throwing this out there?
And paranoia in the Pentagon. American generals asked to sign nondisclosure agreements and take lie detector tests. What is going on?
Let's go OUTFRONT.
(MUSIC)
BURNETT: And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
And OUTFRONT tonight, we begin with the breaking news. No sign of Trump. We have not seen Trump today. We have not heard from Trump today. We haven't heard his voice.
Our Jeff Zeleny pointing out that on the first day of the government shutdown, as the Trump administration says, layoffs are imminent, there is no sign of the president of the United States, and it is no secret to anyone, anywhere in the world that Trump loves to be seen. Here he is on various days over the past two weeks. He loves to seize the moment, but today we have not seen him anywhere, as of 7:00 p.m. Eastern.
As a government shutdown enters its 19th hour with no end in sight, and Trump's team is threatening imminent layoffs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are going to have to lay some people off if the shutdown continues.
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We believe that layoffs are imminent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Imminent means this. Trump's budget chief telling Republicans to expect the pink slips in the next day or two.
Now, layoffs on top of layoffs -- I want to be clear, we're using that word specifically "layoff". That is what the administration is calling them. They're not being furloughed, which is what usually happens during a shutdown, right? You get a furlough, government reopens, you get back pay and you're back to your job. No, they are saying layoffs permanent good-bye.
And this comes as the government shutdown means that were not even going to get crucial economic data released. So, the payroll processing company ADP, it's a private company. They came out and released their monthly numbers, jobs numbers is all we got. We won't if the government's closed, get the federal ones this Friday.
The ADP number showed more than 30,000 jobs were lost in September. That is the biggest number in more than two years. And on top of it, they say jobs were also lost in August.
Now, that reality is grim, even though over the past few weeks, Trump has said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The jobs are being created right now.
A lot of jobs are coming in like I think we've never seen before.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, the numbers we are getting show that to be a fantasy. But back to the black hole of economic data we are entering during a government shutdown. We have not had a blackout in jobs data in 12 years. And it is not just jobs that are a concern.
Take this headline from "The Wall Street Journal" the other day. I've been saving it because it really stood out to me. It says beneath the GDP, a recession warning. In "The Journal", they point to the Commerce Department's latest analysis. It was released this week. So, when you read through it, what you see is America's gross output, which measures business spending at all stages of production. So, every stage of the factory all the way through, they say you can see the data slowing to a crawl.
As "The Wall Street Journal" puts it, when business puts on the brakes, employment slows and recession strikes, and this deeply worrisome and murky data is landing at the same time, this country is facing a shutdown unlike any shutdown in its history because of the unprecedented political moment we're in.
Lawmakers don't just go into a room and hammer out a solution and talk about nasty shutdown stuff. No, we live in a country where it is either fealty to Trump instead of the country or oppose Trump no matter what. That's the way it is right now. And as for Trump, while he didn't show his face, he did post another A.I. generated video of Democrats doubling down by putting another sombrero on Hakeem Jeffries, the sombrero again, Trump's way of saying that Democrats want to give health care to illegal immigrants from Mexico.
Of course, there is no such proposal from Democrats on the table. And I want to point out that Vice President J.D. Vance says he has no problem with the sombrero video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: I mean, Hakeem Jeffries said it was racist, and I know that he said that. And I honestly don't even know what that means. Like, is he a Mexican American that is offended by having a sombrero meme? The president of United States likes to have a little bit of fun when he's doing it, and I think that's okay.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:05:00]
BURNETT: I guess J.D. Vance is pretending he doesn't see color.
But the president does seem to be having fun with this. I mean, you can see the Hakeem Jeffries sombrero video now playing on a loop inside the White House.
Jeff Zeleny is OUTFRONT at the White House. Manu Raju is OUTFRONT on Capitol Hill.
Jeff, it's very significant, as you are pointing out, that the president, who does love to be seen and is happy to jump into controversy, has not been seen on the first full day of the shutdown. What does that signal?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erion, it signals first and foremost, he does not want to be OUTFRONT or the face of this shutdown, at least in its opening day. Of course, that could change and likely will change as the hours and days go forward.
But it was notable that the vice president came out to the press briefing room, a place where he has not been in that moment to be the face of this shutdown. But that does not mean the president and his administration officials are not doing things behind the scenes, because they are very significant movement happening at the Office of Management and Budget today, some $26 billion in funding already approved by Congress was yanked, was canceled. That is significant. Of course, the layoffs that you mentioned also significant.
But the president not wanting to be OUTFRONT on this signals a couple of different things. After talking to a variety of officials here at the White House and around the president, they also believe that there may be a possibility to get a few Democrats on board to vote for this. They believe that the pain point is a significant enough, that that is one reason, according to an official, that the president was not OUTFRONT poking people directly. We will see how long that lasts.
But now the shutdown will last at least until Friday because of the Jewish holiday, there are no votes planned for tomorrow, so I think well have to see how long the president stays behind this.
But for now at least, very significant. He's not OUTFRONT on this and he barely commented on social media at all, except, of course, those videos which are still playing right now in a loop in an empty press room -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Jeff Zeleny.
And I want to go to Manu Raju. He's live on Capitol Hill.
So, Manu, what are you hearing there specifically about the fact when you talk about there's not going to be a vote until at least Friday, right? So you're going to have two days. Thats when supposedly, according to their math, one to two days, you're getting mass layoffs that are going to be irreversible the way that they put it. So, what happens here?
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, right now, the threat of these mass layoffs have not really moved the needle on Capitol Hill, because Democrats say that the president and his team are already planning these mass layoffs. They don't believe that anything would have been different, given that there was a government shutdown.
And they're still demanding what they have since the outset of this debate. They want an extension of those Obamacare subsidies that are expiring at years end. They want to reverse Medicaid cuts enacted under President Trump's domestic policy law.
And we're hearing from Republicans about this, too. I asked a number of them, many of them siding with the president, but some raising concerns.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): They've done layoffs before, and they will continue them unless we take a strong stand and show we will not be bullied.
RAJU: But you would be okay with federal employees being fired?
SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): Again, that's what happens in the private sector all the time. I don't know why public sector employees ought to be immune from that process, but it's completely unnecessary.
SEN. KEVIN CRAMER (R-ND): This is certainly the most moral high ground Republicans have had in a moment like this that I can recall, and I just don't like squandering that political capital. When you have that kind of high ground, it makes it much easier for us to just push forward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: And that last -- that last comment coming from Senator Kevin Cramer of North Dakota, raising some concerns about the firings, the political impact on the firings. And that really is the big question here, Erin. The longer this drags on, which party feels the most pressure, which will feel the need to cave and which will find the need to cut a bipartisan deal, that question could play out into next week or even beyond -- Erin.
BURNETT: Manu, thank you very much.
And OUTFRONT here on this breaking news, Einstein and Ives. Peter Tuchman and Dan Ives, S.E. Cupp, political commentator, and Philip Bump, former "Washington Post" columnist.
Okay. Thanks very much to all of you.
Phil, interesting. No sign of the president. And maybe he doesn't want to be associated with this, but, you know, he usually likes to be out there and he's having others come out and brag frankly about imminent layoffs and other things.
PHIL BUMP, FORMER WASHINGTON POST COLUMNIST: Yeah. I mean, I think it may be the case, as we heard there, that he understands that resolving this means not getting in a fight with Democrats beyond what he already has, right? Like, this is what he likes to do as he likes to go and he likes to poke and he likes to he likes to throw punches. And so, this may be a reflection of that.
It may be a reflection too, that he's distracted by something else, which also happens with President Trump. You know, I think that one of the things we should keep in mind is its extremely hard, both for people in Washington and for anyone else observing to anticipate what happens here.
This is a very, you know, shutdowns are generally unique. This is a unique shutdown among unique things. And it's hard to know what's going to happen, like 2013, it seemed when the Republicans forced to shut down, then it was really going to damage them. And then the 2014 midterms, they overperformed.
[19:10:03]
It's really, really hard to know, particularly at this moment, what's going to happen. And I think that Donald Trump at least may be recognizing that he's not going to be a value add for his side by getting further fights with Democrats.
BURNETT: And yes, we talk about unprecedented. I mean, it is. You've got the fealty to Trump or no matter what he says, it's bad. That is the world that we live in.
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It is. And I think both sides know that. There's a lot of questions out here. To me, there's a question of the pain that we all feel, and that's great. This is a race between both parties to see who can add more to the debt and the deficit. It's not good for anyone.
Then there's what should happen. If you look historically at polls, the last government shutdown, the longest one in history, voters blame Trump. They vote. They blamed Republicans for that shutdown.
Maybe that's because of how long it was. And maybe we won't get to that pain point here. But I'm just watching the way Republicans are acting. They don't seem worried.
BURNETT: No.
CUPP: They seem giddy. They are loving this from the shenanigans over the, you know, the Biden autopen, the hats, the sombrero memes. They feel like they're in a great position.
They're not wrong. Democrats are kind of in chaos right now. They haven't gotten their stuff together. I don't think anyone's all that afraid of Chuck Schumer or Hakeem Jeffries -
BURNETT: No.
CUPP: -- including in their own party. So, they feel like they're doing well.
Are they? We'll find out soon.
BURNETT: I mean, you know, it is interesting, Dan, as S.E. says, there's a giddiness, right? Her word. And you've got that White House that -- the press briefing room playing the sombrero video on a loop as we are. What? According to their math, 24 to 48 hours away from mass irreversible layoffs.
What does that mean?
DAN IVES, GLOBAL HEAD OF TECHNOLOGY RESEARCH, WEDBUSH SECURITIES: Look, I think when it comes down from an economic perspective, it's how long this lasts. I mean, if it lasts a week or two, okay, no big deal. If it starts to last three or four weeks, that's basically half a point off GDP annualized.
So, I think some of the worry here is that markets shaking it off. Now, as we've talked about, but ultimately as this continues, especially with the job numbers, you know obviously not good ones today.
BURNETT: No.
IVES: The economic cloud there because you're not going to really have some numbers coming out given you know the jobs ultimately shut down in terms of those numbers coming through. So, I just think it could cause a white knuckle moment if it lasts. And this sort of shots across the bow is not what you want to see.
BURNETT: And yet -- and yet, Peter, the market in a sense, is acting like its shut down as usual. I mean, you have a fair point. Everyone is unique. But the markets say, oh, the jobs numbers are bad. That means it's great because we're going to get another rate cut and load it up. Let's just keep on whistling and walking along like this is a normal thing, is it?
PETER TUCHMAN, TRADER AT THE NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE: You know what? I don't think so. I think this is kind of unusual because, you know, usually they sort of they stay at the Congress. We into the wee hours of the night trying to at least whether for show or not, to try and figure out and come up with a deal. The Republicans weren't even there yesterday. They walked out before it was two hours even before.
So they didn't even make believe they were negotiating this thing. My gut is that there's a completely different agenda going on. He's got something in his mind where he wants to fire all these people. And then, you know, he loves to create drama, and then he comes in, you know, on his white horse. We talked about that back in the day.
Think about the self-inflicted economic Armageddon we had back in February when we started coming to talk to you. This is, once again the same kind of a thing. He's creating this giant scenario of drama. Okay? And then he's going to come in and go, there's nothing to see here.
IVES: I think it's to your point, too, what's the -- when the smoke comes through, what the real job losses are going to be?
CUPP: Yes.
BURNETT: So, okay, so on that layer of the onion though, here's the question I have, and we were quoting Erick Erickson yesterday because he had this idea. Ted Cruz just came out and said part of it just a few moments ago saying, hey, look, bring it on with the layoffs. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): President Trump is going to use that as an opportunity not to tell people you're furloughed for a few days, but instead to send pink slips and to get rid of left-wing bureaucrats who are imposing left wing priorities that are contrary to President Trump's priorities. I think that is fantastic. And what it's going to do is its going to cause Democrats in Congress to scream and weep.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Okay. And then Erick Erickson laid in, well, you know what? If you get rid of all these nonessential -- which is an offensive thing to say, but nonessential federal workers, three quarters of a million of them, you're going to have to replace some of them. And that Trump would view this as great. I'm going to replace them with people who are my people, not deep state people, as he sees it.
CUPP: Right.
BURENTT: Is it possible that there is someone, if not Trump himself, somebody who does have such a vision?
CUPP: Oh, yes. Lots. And Trump -- Ted Cruz rather is speaking for the MAGA base.
BURNETT: Yeah.
CUPP: First of all, federal employees, not a lot of sympathy, right or wrong. Thats just, you know, the truth of it.
BURNETT: Yeah.
CUPP: They realize inside their base, the base is with them for this and all the MAGA influencers are going to support this.
[19:15:01]
The problem is to your point, gentlemen, the economy is not great and voters don't sit around and parse out, okay, well, this this parts, this party's fault, and this party is this party's fault. Youve got tariffs wreaking havoc on farmers, you've got jobless -- jobless numbers, you've got bad stuff happening.
People, if this goes on too long, are just going to blame Trump for all of it. The dysfunction, the economic woes, the firing. But it has to go on long enough to your point for them to make that.
IVES: Three or four weeks, and also -- it also for the Fed as we've talked it gives them more complexity.
BURNETT: Right.
IVES: Because given cuts you add this in and that's going to be sort be a lot of --
TUCHMAN: That is going to complicate, right? Obviously, there's a potential for an October cut. It's not really on the table. But we know that November and December, we're looking at two more cuts before the end of the year. And so, this could set the stage once again for a more aggressive, even a 50 cut.
BURNETT: So, I know there's some -- you know, three Democrats voted for the Republican bill. There could be -- there could be others who are going to come over. That could be the bet. But I guess the question is, is that -- is that what Trump wants?
I mean, maybe, maybe pain. He has shown a willingness to take pain to get something that he wants.
BUMP: Yes, that's true. He although he is he rarely acknowledges that there is pain happening, right?
BURNETT: Well, that is true. He would deny that it was. Yes, fair.
BUMP: You know, I think when we talk about the job cuts in particular, we need to keep in mind that a lot of this is just context, right? The -- a lot of it are pretext rather, that a lot of it is in the same way that Donald Trump always wanted to send troops into D.C. and he seized upon this crime that occurred in D.C. as a means to do that.
He and his team and Russ Vought in particular, have wanted to do this since, you know, project 2025, on the campaign trail. They talked about this. They said, this is what they want --
BURNETT: Well, they even tried with DOGE, right?
BUMP: Yes. Right, exactly.
BURNETT: And then they failed, right?
BUMP: And what did they do when they fired all those people? They had to hire a lot of them back, right? And by the way, like if you're going to fire park rangers and bring in right wing park rangers, what are you talking about? It doesn't make sense.
But so, the point is, like when we're talking about these things, it's also important to realize that, yes, Ted Cruz is saying those things and J.D. Vance is saying those things because he wants Democrats to go like this and do a little Rodney Dangerfield, right? He knows Democrats are the party of governing, and they want to have a government and have government do stuff for people.
And they're saying, oh, we're going to fire all your folks. And it's a scare tactic. But it also is very legitimately something that Trump and his team want to do.
BURNETT: And so, the government --
IVES: Versus what the market, because, you know, this last two, three, four weeks, that's when you start to get some nervousness.
BURNETT: We'll see what happens. Tomorrow is a day to pause.
TUCHMAN: Nothing, we talked about today. There's absolutely nothing that you can throw at this market that is going to. We've had the most shallow pullbacks taking into account all this stuff. Nothing is interrupting this rally. It's spectacular.
IVES: To be continued.
BURNETT: All right. And thanks to all.
And next, a top Trump official breaking with Trump on Epstein. And by the way, not just any top official, one who is hand in hand, side by side all the time, hinting at a cover up now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD LUTNICK, COMMERCE SECRETARY: My assumption is there was a trade for the videos because there were people on those videos.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: He goes into detail. What videos is Howard Lutnick talking about? Does he know something?
Plus, Pete Hegseth now pushing for a surprise lie detector, tests for top officials. I'm going to talk to a retired major general who warns that this could lead to false accusations.
And CNN tonight on the ground in Greenland, we said there's so many things to focus on. Don't forget about that one. The military there is now putting on a major show of force that they claim is meant to deter Russia and China. But our Matthew Chance went there to see how much of it is really about Trump.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:22:48]
BURNETT: Tonight. Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick, in a remarkable break with Trump and his Justice Department, suggesting that federal prosecutors struck a deal with Jeffrey Epstein only after Epstein handed over compromising videos of his rich and powerful friends.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LUTNICK: What happened in that massage room? I assume, was on video. This guy was the greatest blackmailer ever. I assume way back when they traded those videos in exchange for him getting that 18-month sentence, which allowed him to have visits and be out of jail.
I mean, he's a serial sex offender. How could he get 18 months and be able to go to his office during the day and have visitors and stuff? It must have been a trade.
So, my assumption -- I have no knowledge, but my assumption is there was a trade for the videos because there were people on those videos.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Okay. Look, we don't know if that's true, but here's the deal, Howard Lutnick is saying the quiet part out loud. What a lot of people think, because there are so many questions raised about the sweetheart deal that Epstein got that allow him to avoid federal charges and only serve 13 months in a Florida prison on two prostitution charges.
So Lutnick says he's just speculating and he doesn't know and no one knows. But everybody wonders what the heck happened with that deal.
And OUTFRONT now is Congressman Robert Garcia, the top Democrat on the House Oversight Committee, who has been trying to get the Epstein files.
So, Congressman Garcia, when you hear Howard Lutnick say this -- look, Trump has said the administration made clear that anybody on the Republican side who wants more transparency on the Epstein files is pushing for those Epstein files, is a hostile act to this administration. So Lutnick coming out and saying all of this is remarkable. And he didn't just say, oh, you know, I want to know what happened. He
laid out an entire theory about Epstein recording people getting massages and having sex with underage girls in the massage room, and then using those tapes as blackmail. He laid all of that out.
What do you think when you hear that?
[19:25:01]
Do you think there's any truth to it?
REP. ROBERT GARCIA (D-CA): Well, first, those were some incredible comments, and I think that it just reinforces why it's so important that we get the full files released by the DOJ and the Trump administration. And quite frankly, after those comments by Mr. Lutnick, we need to speak to him the entire oversight committee. We're very interested in understanding what exactly he knows where those theories come from.
And anyone, particularly if you're in the Trump administration and you are saying those comments so freely, you have to have additional information so you can -- you can believe that we're going to follow up. It is outrageous that we've had a subpoena for all these documents, and there's no release of the documents.
We've got very little information, and we know there are a lot of people have information within the administration that could be helpful to our investigation. Clearly, there is some here. And clearly, we need all the files released.
BURNETT: So, do you add a specific subpoena for Lutnick?
GARCIA: I would 100 percent support a subpoena for Lutnick. And I think that I'm going to certainly be following up on this. I just heard these comments just obviously a little bit earlier today. Yeah, pretty substantial comments in my opinion. So we're going to have to follow up with that.
BURNETT: Okay. So, he said something else, congressman, which you obviously looking at this know. But some people watching may not. So, we just heard what Lutnick said, but then he also described how he first met Epstein, right. So, this wasn't just Lutnick speculating right. This was Lutnick who was a really wealthy person who happened to live next door to Epstein in Manhattan before Epstein's arrest, right?
So, Howard Lutnick knew Epstein. In fact, Lutnick tells the story about Epstein invited Lutnick and his wife over for a tour of his townhouse. So here is Lutnick in this interview describing, you know, he goes in for this tour. He and his wife, and he sees Epstein's infamous massage room.
Here's how Lutnick describes it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LUTNICK: I say to him, massage table in the middle of your house. How often do you have a massage? And he says, every day. And then he like, gets like weirdly close to me. And he says, and the right kind of massage. In the six or eight steps it takes to get from his house to my house, my wife and I decided that I will never be in the room with that disgusting person, ever again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Holy cow, Congressman.
GARCIA: I mean, stunning. Look, I -- I -- when I heard those comments earlier today, we were pretty stunned. Obviously, it's -- there's no question were going to be asking Chairman Comer. We need to have Howard Lutnick in front of the committee. Needs to happen ASAP.
The fact that he has information that could be critical to this investigation and that he is, of course, part of the Trump administration critical for us to get this information immediately.
BURNETT: And by the way, crucial that he said the one time he went to the house, he was told this and within eight steps he'd say he never see it again. When you just talk about all the people who knew Epstein very well or extremely well, and what they may or may not have known.
It's been a week since Democratic Adelita Grijalva won that special congressional election, and Speaker Johnson has not sworn her in, and he hasn't sworn her in. He has'nt told her when she's going to be sworn in. And of course, she's the decisive signature on that discharge position that would get the Epstein files, right? You need her signature. He knows that. He won't swear her in.
You know, has he directly had any conversation with you or anyone in Democratic leadership about why he's doing this?
GARCIA: Look, it's pretty clear to a lot of us that he partly doesn't want the government to be open because he doesn't want the 218th member Adelita Grijalva to be able to sign the petition to get full Congress on board with releasing the full files. They've done everything in their power to stall the release, to stop it from getting sworn in, to slow down the DOJ investigation, to provide cover for Donald Trump.
When Donald Trump spends his entire campaign saying, release the files, and then his DOJ and the A.G. say they have it on their desk, then they choose not to release the files and the information, it is clear there is a White House coverup. It's time for them to release the files. The American public have a right to know, and we've got to bring justice for all the survivors.
BURNETT: Congressman Garcia, thank you very much. I appreciate your time.
And next, an unprecedented crackdown on leaks inside the Pentagon. Or how about on at least leaks? Unlike anything ever seen in the United States from lie detector tests to nondisclosure agreements, new reporting next.
Plus, breaking news, an ominous message from Trump's top aide to law enforcement officials.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN MILLER, TRUMP AIDE: I see the guns and badges in this room. You are unleashed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:34:04]
BURNETT: Tonight, in an extraordinary move, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is right now working to impose sweeping new rules on Americas top generals and Pentagon officials, requiring them to submit to random lie detector tests, according to "The Washington Post". It comes as senior officials are also now being forced to sign strict nondisclosure agreements barring the, quote, release of nonpublic information without approval or through a defined process. CNN has reported on these nondisclosure agreements, but tonight "The Post" is learning new information that the Pentagon is now considering a much more aggressive approach.
National security lawyer Mark Zaid, who represents several Trump administration whistleblowers, including one at the Pentagon, sounding the alarm, telling "The Post", quote, this seems to be far more directed at ensuring loyalty to the DOD, the former Department of Defense, and the Trump administration leadership, rath than countering any foreign espionage.
OUTFRONT now, with the new details, Tara Copp, Pentagon reporter with "The Washington Post".
[19:35:03]
And, Tara, I really appreciate seeing you again.
All right. So, I mean, it is just pretty stunning just to take a step back and think that we're now in a moment, were going to submit the top generals in the United States to random lie detector tests. You trust them in fields of combat, but obviously -- but you don't trust them. I mean, who is going to be subject to these polygraphs and NDAs?
TARA COPP, WASHINGTON POST PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is what we're hearing. According to the officials we've spoken to and the documents we viewed, this new program would be much broader and much more intimidating in nature and could potentially affect thousands of people who work for not only the defense secretary, but also for the joint staff and the chairman, General Dan Caine.
So, according to the documents that we viewed, it's also much broader in what kind of information might be withheld. This is not about protecting classified information. This is about keeping out any sort of nonpublic non-approved information. That is what the NDA would cover. Everyone is going to be required to sign it. They'll have 30 days to sign it. If this policy is approved and again, the memos that we have looked at don't describe classified information. It's not approved information.
This is about prohibiting those employees from doing anything except touting an official message.
BURNETT: Right, right. The official message is from this Pentagon. That's all you're allowed to say. That is stunning. And that is unprecedented.
What are you hearing from people, Tara, about how they're responding or they're going to -- are they going to agree or are they going to submit to this, or are they going to sign the NDAs?
COPP: Well, those employees may not have a choice, and it affects contractors. It affects -- it affects defense civilians. It affects all the military personnel. If you don't sign, you might be subject to prosecution under the UCMJ.
And as we heard from the defense secretary yesterday, those who dissent always have the option to resign, which isn't really an option.
BURNETT: Yeah. Wow. All right, Tara, thank you very much again for being here with your great reporting from "The Washington Post".
And OUTFRONT now, retired Major General Randy Manner. He served as the deputy commanding general of the U.S. Army.
General, I'm grateful for your time tonight. I know, as you have thought about this push for random lie detector tests, polygraphs, you're concerned it could create the basis for false accusations. What do you mean by that?
MAJOR GENERAL RANDY MANNER, U.S. ARMY (RET.): I think it's one thing where the inspector generals are going to be gotten rid of by the secretary. That was stated yesterday. It basically means that you no longer can complain about people who might have corruption or are doing things that are illegal. But now, we're going to have people watching literally all the people in the defense department. This appears to me to be an administration that is running scared and is trying to run, is basically trying to control the information around them because they are not -- they don't have that control that they want, which is absolute.
BURNETT: It is a stunning moment, General. I mean, Pete Hegseth has threatened the top military officials with a lie detector test before, but it's been a threatened right. At one point, according to "The Wall Street Journal", he shouted at Admiral Christopher Grady, who was then the acting chairman of the joint chiefs. He shouted, "I'll hook you up to an f-ing polygraph." And he threatened Lieutenant General Doug Sims with the same.
So, you know, when you hear reporting like that, right, to be speaking like that, I'll hook you up to an f-ing polygraph, what does the tone? What does the manner, what are the what is the word choice, what does this mean about the level of anxiety he has?
MANNER: He has tremendous anxiety. This is something where if we don't trust our generals and admirals and our senior enlisted leaders, literally with the lives of our sons and our daughters, our husbands or wives, our aunts and uncles, which we do, of course, then why are we doing all of this stuff about polygraphs? This is all about a political move.
It's one of those things we also have to be very careful about. You need to trust our American military in the same way that the American people have to know that our military is behind our -- the American people. We are there. We will always be there for you.
The president talked about the enemy within, the enemy within is not in the military. The enemy within is not the American people. And I'll let it to the viewers to decide where the enemy within is. But it's not us, and it's not the American people.
Again, the American people have to have full confidence that the military is fully behind them. And we've got your back.
BURNETT: I do think it is quite profound what you said, though these generals are entrusted with the lives of American young men, young American men and women. Right?
MANNER: Yes.
BURNETT: And to be entrusted with that in a theater of war, but not trusted enough to be not submitted to random polygraph tests to see who they're talking to or what they're saying is a profound thing to say.
I want to show you, General, some photos from Hegseth's meeting. I saw these come out last night. They were very meaningful to me because you see, the generals sitting silently, stern faces, they're stoic, obviously, it's a somber moment. It's heavy. Hegseth was on stage at the time talking about fat generals, soldiers with beards, dudes in dresses.
[19:40:02]
These are all his words.
And they're sitting jammed in you know, sort of in some sort of like, you know, whatever. It looks like a hotel ballroom, sort of chairs, you know, and they're all jammed in there, much like, you know, I don't know, children in an auditorium. They've been flown in around the world to all jam in there.
What does an image like that say to you?
MANNER: It's important that the American people understand that that group of senior officers and senior enlisted leaders are very well- educated. All of them are combat veterans. They have, in many cases had many soldiers in their commands die in combat situations.
Those are American heroes there. And they were being berated by a disgraced major. That's all that he ever got, as far as the secretary of defense and a president who, quite frankly, dodged the draft.
Those young -- excuse me, those soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines, those all those leaders, they were professional. They sat there and they listened to what had to be said. It's not like the time that the president went to Fort Bragg with the 82nd Airborne Division, with these young 18- to 20-year-olds who were whooping and hollering for the president that were handpicked for is being Trump supporters.
These are the backbone of our nation's security, and they are apolitical, and they are going to stay apolitical. And that's why the American people have to be reassured that we are there for you.
BURNETT: General, I appreciate your time. I'm very grateful. And thank you.
MANNER: Thank you.
BURNETT: And we have some breaking news here just coming in. Trump's closest adviser, just speaking to law enforcement officials. And he is telling them that their guns are, quote, unleashed.
Plus, we'll take you to Greenland, where a massive military exercise is taking place. And on the ground, we tried to find out what it really is about.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:46:02]
BURNETT: Breaking news, White House deputy chief of staff Stephen Miller speaking to law enforcement officials in Memphis, telling the officers that they, along with their guns, are now, quote, "unleashed" amid a federal crackdown on crime.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MILLER: I see the guns and badges in this room. You are unleashed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Stephen Miller's comments come as President Trump says the National Guard is now in place. His exact words in Oregon, after federalizing 200 soldiers to protect, he says immigration officials and an ICE facility in Portland.
OUTFRONT now, the mayor of Los Angeles, California, Karen Bass. Los Angeles, was the first Democratic-run city where Trump sent federal law enforcement before doing the same in Washington, D.C., Memphis and Chicago. Now, of course, Portland.
Mayor Bass, Stephen Miller just told law enforcement that their guns are unleashed. That was his exact word. As you just heard. As the mayor of the second biggest city in America, what does that mean to tell law enforcement their guns are now unleashed?
MAYOR KAREN BASS (D), LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA: Well, let me just register that this is such a tragic moment in our history and the experiment that started here has now gone to other cities and is now being generalized. I believe that they have been dosing the American people so that this becomes normalized behavior. The statements that were made to the military yesterday, acknowledging that we are going to experiment with our cities and use our cities as training grounds for warfare.
So, what that is saying is, is that the president of the United States wants to turn the U.S. military against the American people and to tell law enforcement that they are now unleashed and they can use their guns, is essentially saying, go in primarily inner city communities and shoot people. So, after years of trying to work on police reform, and that was an issue that I worked on when I was a member of congress, the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act, to improve police and community relations. Stephen miller just said, lets antagonize it, because clearly this is only going to happen in certain communities. And this is just this is just a tragic moment, and it's a real challenge to our democracy and such a profoundly negative way.
BURNETT: Can I just play mayor? What the president actually said yesterday about Americas cities? You're referring to it. I just want to play it so everybody can hear it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It seems that the ones that are run by the radical left Democrats, what they've done to San Francisco, Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, they're very unsafe places. And were going to straighten them out one by one. We should use some of these dangerous cities as training grounds for our military.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: You know, Mayor Bass, go ahead.
BASS: You know, the -- first of all, in Los Angeles and several of those other cities, we are experiencing dramatic reductions in crime. Obviously, crime still exists. Theres more work to do. So instead of using us as a test ground for the military, they choose to cut programs that actually help to lower the violence and crime rate. And they did that in the bill. It's one of the factors of the shutdown in terms of programs that are cut.
And I'm so glad that my friends and colleagues in Washington, D.C. are standing strong. You are talking about creating warfare within cities. And again, I will point out he's not talking about everywhere. Theres something that all of these cities have in common.
BURNETT: One of those cities is Los Angeles. I mean, is New York. And I spoke on Monday with the front runner of the New York mayor's race, the Democratic socialist Zohran Mamdani.
[19:50:01] I asked him specifically about Trump's threat to withhold federal funds from New York. New York gets about $7.5 billion a year. Trump says he's going to pull it if Mamdani wins.
So I asked Mamdani how he planned to fight that, and he said something about what you're doing in California. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D), NYC MAYORAL CANDIDATE: And what we see in California is an attorney general of the state has estimated that for every dollar they spent on lawsuits against the federal governments threats to withhold funding, they won more than $30,000 in what would otherwise have been lost. And so, we will take that same approach.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So, he's looking to California as a model.
Mayor Bass, do you think Mamdani would be a good mayor of New York?
BASS: Well, you know, I mean, that's up to the people in New York to decide. I'm certainly dealing with what we have here, but what he is referencing, we are going to continue to use, too, a legal strategy.
But I just have to say that, you know, some of the legal decisions that have happened in a positive way have been reversed by the courts now. When I was there in Congress during Trump's first administration, they made profound changes to our judiciary system. And then you have the Supreme Court after two decisions on the local level, the state level in California around racial profiling of Latinos, which we refer to here as the hunting of Latinos, that has created a blanket of fear around this city and has had detrimental impacts to our economy. We had two court decisions, and then the Supreme Court basically gave a green light to racial profiling.
They are trying to dial us back to the 1940s, and that is a tragedy for the American people.
BURNETT: So, Mayor Bass, you talked about the shutdown and the impact that it is having. You know, this is going to go on at least until Friday and obviously could go on longer than that. But what would be the biggest impact or what is the biggest impact on Los Angeles right now?
BASS: Well, and let me tell you, I was there for the shutdown that lasted over 30 days and it had a devastating impact then. And if this goes on for much longer, it will absolutely have an impact.
First of all, the cuts that are in the bill in terms of health care are going to lead to over 300 hospitals around the country closing. That will absolutely impact hospitals and community-based clinics here in Los Angeles. A variety of programs, especially for lower income people like WIC and SNAP, those programs that provide basic needs of food and health care and support, are going to be cut. In a time, and especially in our city, that is a very expensive city to live in, it's devastating.
BURNETT: Mayor Bass, thank you very much. I appreciate your time tonight.
BASS: Thank you for having me on.
BURNETT: And next, we're going to take you to Greenland because the military there has a message for President Trump.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:56:10]
BURNETT: Tonight. Greenland's massive military show of force, CNN is there on the ground as Greenland publicly says, the war games are meant to deter Russia and China. But what is the message they want to send President Trump?
Matthew Chance is on the ground OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a vast landscape, remote and virtually untamed. But Greenland has emerged as a key arctic battleground as Russia and China vie with NATO allies for Arctic influence.
CNN was invited here by the Danish military to observe their biggest ever combat exercise, dubbed Arctic Light.
Much of Greenland, ruled by Denmark for three centuries, is a moonscape of jagged ice, a frozen desert rich in resources the size of Alaska and California combined.
Danish military officials say this unforgiving terrain is virtually unconquerable, but they're still training hard to repulse any would be attackers.
SEREN ANDERSEN, COMMANDER DANISH JOINT ARCTIC COMMAND: We are here to protect Greenland, and in order to protect Greenland, we have to train. And because if you're not up here and conduct training, you're not able to defend Greenland. So that's what we're doing.
CHANCE: What are the security threats to Greenland? Who are you protecting it from?
ANDERSEN: Yeah. Against Russia. That is the main threat for Greenland. There's not a threat now, but there's a future threat. So, we are looking into a threat when the when the war in Ukraine is over.
CHANCE (voice-over): But such a remote danger begs the question why Denmark is ramping up military spending right now to the tune of billions of dollars and pouring its limited resources into the Arctic.
Greenland has become a highly contested territory, seen as strategically important, and Denmark has deployed its air force, its navy and its land assets here to show that it is in charge very much and is increasing its presence.
Now, the purpose of this exercise is to deter countries like Russia and China, we're told by Danish military officials, which are increasingly active in the arctic region. But the real message, the real target audience for all of this is in Washington and President Trump.
TRUMP: We need Greenland for national security and even international security. And were working with everybody involved to try and get it.
CHANCE (voice-over): That ambition appears to have dropped off the White House agenda, at least for now.
TRUMP: One way or the other, we're going to get it.
CHANCE (voice-over): But in the icy fjords of Greenland, with naval exercises underway to it still seen as the most pressing diplomatic challenge.
Although Denmark's top general, who CNN met on board a Danish frigate, was careful not to admit it in public.
Is the real reason for these maneuvers, the remarks by President Trump about the sovereignty of Greenland? Is it intended to send a message to Washington?
MICHAEL HYLDGAARD, DANISH CHIEF OF DEFENSE: This is a military exercise. It is to demonstrate our ability to protect Greenland. And that's the military side of it.
CHANCE: It's not meant as a message to Washington that Greenland can protect this, that Denmark can protect Greenland.
HYLDGAARD: I'm not a politician, so I have a military task.
CHANCE (voice-over): But as we flew out of Greenland, it was clear that military task carries a key Danish political goal, not just to deter Moscow and Beijing from ever invading this vast arctic expanse, but also to convince Washington there's no need to take Greenland as its own.
Matthew Chance, CNN, Greenland.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Thanks so much to Matthew for that important reporting, and all of you for watching.
"AC360" starts now.
