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Erin Burnett Outfront
DOJ Indicts NY Attorney General After Trump Pushed Prosecution; Judge: No Troops In Chicago; "Get Out of My F***ing Shot". Aired 7-8p ET
Aired October 09, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:22]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
The breaking news, Trump's DOJ indicting another top Democrat, the New York attorney general, using his handpicked prosecutor to do what her predecessor would not.
And you'll want to hear what Letitia James told me when I asked her if she feared being a Trump target.
Also breaking just moments ago, a federal judge blocking the deployment of National Guard troops in Illinois for 14 days. As a Chicago pastor who was struck in the head by ICE while praying, is my guest in his first television interview tonight.
Plus, get out of my F-ing shot. Those words from Democrat Katie Porter throwing her campaign for California governor into chaos. Can she recover?
Let's go OUTFRONT.
(MUSIC)
BURNETT: And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
And we begin OUTFRONT tonight with the breaking news -- indicted. One of President Trump's biggest adversaries, the New York Attorney General Letitia James, has just been indicted by a federal grand jury. It is a historic move. James is the first attorney general of New York to be indicted by the Justice Department, and it follows a nearly six- month investigation into claims of mortgage fraud.
Now, that is a charge the United States Justice Department rarely brings against individuals. But of course, James is not an ordinary individual. Trump considers her an enemy after she sued him in 2022, accusing Trump of lying about his real estate empire and inflating the value of his properties.
James won that case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LETITIA JAMES (D), NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL: The scale and the scope of Donald Trump's fraud is staggering and so too is his ego and his belief that the rules do not apply to him. Today, we are holding Donald Trump accountable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now, Trump made no secret of the fact that he wanted revenge for that. Nineteen days ago, remember, Trump mistakenly posted a private message to his attorney general. This is according to "The Wall Street Journal". Pam, colon, it read, and then told Pam Bondi to get going on the indictments.
Trump wrote, right, he published this publicly. He meant to do it privately. That's why it's Pam, colon, I reviewed over 30 statements and posts saying that essentially same old story as last time. All talk, no action, nothing is being done. What about Comey, Adam Shifty Schiff, Letitia? They're all guilty as hell, but nothing is going to be done.
Comey, of course, was indicted five days later. And today, Trump's handpicked new prosecutor brought the case against James to a grand jury in Alexandria, Virginia. This will be only the second case that Lindsey Halligan has ever prosecuted, because James Comey is the first.
Well, Letitia James is responding to all this online, posting a video with a caption that reads in part, "I am not fearful. I am fearless."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES: This is nothing more than a continuation of the president's desperate weaponization of our justice system. These charges are baseless, and the president's own public statements make clear that his only goal is political retribution at any cost.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And Trump's public statements do, of course, show that Trump has wanted revenge on James for years.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The fascist and racist attorney general of New York state, Letitia James.
There's no question about it. Letitia James, the corrupt attorney general of New York.
You have an attorney general who's a total stone-cold crook, New York state, Letitia James, a total crook.
A crooked A.G. Letitia James.
Letitia James from New York. This is another real lowlife.
Letitia James, the corrupt attorney general of New York.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now, I spoke to James last July, and I actually asked her directly whether she was afraid of Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Given the case that you brought against him in New York -- you won that case. That was fraud at Trump Organization. The judge has ruled he has to pay $464 million in that case. Do you expect or are you worried, Attorney General, that you could be on his list for retribution?
JAMES: I was always taught that faith and fear don't share the same space, and I don't believe that individuals should engage in retribution for me simply doing my job.
I did my job, law enforcement. There was evidence that Mr. Trump had engaged in financial fraud. He was held liable by a judge.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: When it comes to evidence, it is unclear what evidence Trump's DOJ has on James. CNN reporting last month that Justice Department prosecutors were struggling to build a case against her. In fact, sources told CNN that prosecutors did not believe they had gathered enough evidence to indict James for a crime.
But that, of course, was before Trump tapped his former personal attorney, Lindsey Halligan, to replace the U.S. attorney, as was the case with the Comey indictment.
[19:05:08]
Halligan's name is the only one on the indictment, same as Comey, and she was the one who presented the evidence to the grand jury.
And tonight, now, questions are growing if Congressman Adam Schiff is next on the list. After all, he's the only other name not yet indicted that Trump included in that September 20th tweet to Pam.
I spoke to Schiff last month about Trump's claims that he, too, committed mortgage fraud.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Senator, you've been a vocal critic of President Trump and in turn, obviously, that has resulted in a lot of accusations against you by him. He's accused you of treason. Now he's accusing you of mortgage fraud.
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): This is about political payback and political attacks. In terms of my own mortgage situation, I was completely transparent with my lenders. That's what's required. In fact, I even talked to the mortgage company lawyer that approved the application that they're contesting. So there's no "there" there.
The only purpose of this is to try to smear and attack his opponents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, one by one, Trump has been going after his political opponents, accusing James Schiff and Lisa Cook, a member of the Fed.
The Fed official, the Trump is trying to fire because of alleged mortgage fraud.
Yet when it comes to the actual charges themselves, they are hypocritical. I mean, "ProPublica" reports at least three Trump cabinet officials also claimed to have multiple primary residences on their mortgage applications, including the labor secretary and the transportation secretary.
And Bloomberg reports that the Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent once agreed to occupy two homes simultaneously as a, quote, primary residence. Now, all three deny any wrongdoing. None are being investigated.
Now, maybe they should be. Maybe they shouldn't be. But there is one standard on investigation right now, and that is the Trump administrations standard. And here is their standard for investigating mortgage fraud.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
BILL PULTE, DIRECTOR OF THE FEDERAL HOUSING FINANCE AGENCY: If somebody is claiming two primary residences, that is not appropriate, and we will refer it for criminal investigation.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: Which, of course, is what Trump and his Department of Justice are doing. Only when the person claiming to mortgages as a primary resident residence is a Democrat.
Kara Scannell is OUTFRONT live in New York.
So, Kara, with the developments here, what more are you learning about the indictment of Letitia James tonight and what happens next?
KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Erin, Letitia James is facing two felony charges, one count of bank fraud and one count of making a misstatement to a financial institution. This all relates to a mortgage she took out on a home in Norfolk, Virginia.
According to the mortgage documents, this was taken out as a second home. But the indictment alleges that Letitia James had rented it out and that misrepresentation not as a second home but as an investment property they allege gave her a better mortgage rate, according to the indictment, she had illegal gains of $18,933 over the life of the loan. Her attorney has said that they will flatly and forcefully deny that there was any fraud at play here.
Now, Letitia James is due in court on October 24th, where she will face these charges. She will be appearing before a Biden nominated judge, Judge Amara Walker. He is someone who used to work in the Eastern District of Virginia as a prosecutor, prosecuting financial crimes and public corruption. The same colleagues of his who decided that there wasn't enough evidence to bring this case, which caused Trump's handpicked U.S. Attorney Lindsey Halligan, to be the only one to appear before the grand jury today -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Kara, with the new reporting.
Jamal Simmons, Ryan Goodman, Gretchen Carlson, Philip Bump are all OUTFRONT.
So, Ryan, you know, a few weeks ago, DOJ prosecutors, according to the reporting, they didn't believe they had enough evidence to indict James, but Lindsey Halligan comes in, we get the indictment, we get this indictment right away.
You've had a chance to read through it. It's six pages, I believe, but that includes all the phone numbers and all that. It's really only about four.
Is it a real case?
RYAN GOODMAN, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL AT DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE: It's deeply suspect that it's a real case. Also, the reporting is even over a couple days ago, the senior criminal career prosecutor thought there wasn't even probable cause to bring a case. And so, if it's the September 17th date or a couple of days ago, how much investigation did they possibly do to them? Bring it over the line to charge. That's one question.
And then the second is that this distinction that is being made in the indictment between somebody having a secondary home and an investment property, there's also been reporting that one of the reasons senior DOJ leaders did not want to bring the cases, because those rules are quite ambiguous or vague when it comes to federal guidelines.
BURNETT: Yeah.
GOODMAN: And everything has to turn on that. Or what happens if she got a secondary home and then later in time, she decides I'm not really using it, I'd like to rent it out, or I'd like to charge my family member who's using it afterwards after she applies for the loan.
All sorts of things that could go into this that weaken the case and explain why there's been so much reporting that the career prosecutors thought this was a dud.
BURNETT: Thought it was a dud. I mean, that is the reporting.
[19:10:00]
And, Gretchen, yet when you look at the situation here, especially when it comes to mortgage fraud, right? They're talking about Adam Schiff, they're talking about Letitia James, Lisa Cook, and yet, when it comes to people in Trump's own administration who may have two primary residences, which was the Bill Pulte standard for criminal investigation is absolute crickets.
GRETCHEN CARLSON, JOURNALIST: Yeah.
BURNETT: So, is it -- does this -- so what happens in this case? Is this worth it politically?
CARLSON: I don't think that Trump's actual goal here is convictions. This is about putting people through absolute humiliation publicly. This is about them having mug shots. This is about them having to invest in lawyers.
This is about putting them through hell, scaring them to death, right? And it's basically what he felt happened to him --
BURNETT: Right.
CARLSON: -- under the Biden administration.
So I'm not sure at all that he really actually cares if this goes to a full conviction. It's the actual process that he's caring about.
And by the way, what he should be caring about tonight is the Israeli- Hamas deal. Like anything about PR would tell you that you should be lauding that kind of a victory and not having this rot out now, to get back at your political opponents.
BURNETT: Right.
CARLSON: I mean, this is the worst PR situation. Although he, you know, it's probably good for him personally, but he should be -- and we should be talking about the fact that he brokered this deal, not this.
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Erin?
BURNETT: I mean -- yeah?
SIMMONS: I want to pick up on this because this is exactly why Donald Trump probably won't get the Nobel Peace Prize, right, because on the same day that he might be striking one of the deals that people have been looking for, for two years in the Middle East, he's also got troops that he's trying to put on the streets of American cities. He's using the Justice Department to go after his political opponents, and he may have had federal agents firing pepper spray bullets at priests.
These are the kind of images that you see from countries that are falling apart at home. Now, at the same time, he's trying to strike deals abroad. I just don't see how people around the world can rally around such a figure.
BURNETT: I mean, Trump has talked -- to Gretchen's point -- about Biden weaponizing the DOJ, right? Letitia James, I don't think is trying to pretend that this isn't retribution. You did it to me, so I'm doing it to you. That's his entire argument.
There's no -- there's no pretense or even attempt at a fig leaf. So here's what he said repeatedly about the Department of Justice under Biden.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It's all caused by Biden because Biden has weaponized the Department of Justice.
They weaponized the Department of Justice.
I've been prosecuted because I'm a political opponent of two people that have weaponized our justice system.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I mean, is it a case of, I take out your eye, you took out my eye, take out yours, eye for an eye?
PHILIP BUMP, FORMER WASHINGTON POST COLUMNIST: I mean, it's not from the standpoint that what Donald Trump did, the reason he was prosecuted by the Justice Department was primarily that he tried to overturn the results of the 2020 election, right?
BURNETT: Right. He did this thing and there was a response to it. He didn't like the response, and he may not have liked the prosecutions in Georgia. He didn't like the prosecution in New York City, but he's talking about the Justice Department.
The Justice Department went after him primarily for documents in Mar- a-Lago, classified documents, and for January 6th. And what his efforts to overturn 2020.
I think fundamentally, and it's very hard for all of us to observe this and not sit back and be like, okay, well, what's the merits of the case? There is no reason we ought to extend the benefit of the doubt to Donald Trump on this. Donald Trump has made repeatedly clear that this is his goal.
It is basically akin to what happened after 2020, when he said the election was stolen. Now prove it. All of you go out there and find some evidence that the election was stolen, never turned up because it wasn't stolen.
But it's the same thing. He's starting from the conclusion, which is my enemies are bad people. Now come up with anything you can to make that the case.
BURNETT: And, Jamal, I also want to say here, when you talk about this, it is important to remember and as I know you have been pointing out the Biden Justice Department when it came to Hunter Biden, kept the special counsel from Trump's team, John Durham let him finish, right?
That -- that all played itself out. They didn't try to intervene and switch it. They actually charged Bob Menendez for the gold bar thing. So, you know, we're not seeing any of that here.
SIMMONS: We're not seeing that. And we're not saying we never saw the president of the United States go out and publicly identify political enemies that he wanted the Justice Department to go after. You know, when we think about --
BURNETT: Merrick, colon, where's my indictment? No.
SIMMONS: Exactly. So when we think about our democracy, our democracy sort of stands on some pillars. And one of those is independent judiciary, prosecutors who see themselves as agents of justice, not agents of the president. And that is -- that's something that I think we're really wrestling with. And a lot of prosecutors who we know, some of them who are on this network, who, you know, you talk to them offline, they kind of think of themselves as guardians of the realm, right?
BURNETT: Yeah.
SIMMONS: They think they're above the kind of political fray this president is, not allowing them to be the guardians of our realm.
BURNETT: And just to be clear, Lindsey Halligan, this will be her second case prosecuting and again, her name the only one on the indictment. I mean, this isn't -- again, no one's pretending that there's anybody else in the office who's willing to do it.
[19:15:00]
GOODMAN: Right. And we're not drawing inferences here. We have a communication from the president to Pam Bondi that says, bring this case against these individuals.
BURNETT: We'll put up the post. Yeah.
GOODMAN: And against these individuals. And why? Because they did it to him.
Like the bottom line, that last sentence in that message to her is because they did it to me. And that's -- people should understand, so completely off the range of anything that's been done in modern presidencies to order the attorney general to indict, let alone over one's own political foes. And then, lo and behold, she seems to have followed through. She would also have had to have signed off on this.
And that's about what I think one of Letitia James' first arguments is going to be vindictive prosecution. He's retaliating against her.
BURNETT: And now -- so and Comey's going to make that case as well.
GOODMAN: Yes. He is.
BURNETT: Comey had one other case he could make that I know you and Ty Cobb were saying you took very, very seriously, which is Lindsey Halligan. You know, there was a statute of limitations. They got her in right before that, and they got it charged off. She wasn't formally seated yet.
Does that have any implication on the Letitia James case?
GOODMAN: It does in Letitia James case because once again, she's the only signature. So, she's not validly in place. The indictment goes away. But the DOJ can fix it as long as they're within the statute of limitations --
BURNETT: Which they have more time here.
GOODMAN: -- which has a serious problem with Comey, that indictment is over. If she's invalid or invalidly put in place when she signed that indictment, there's no case against him because now the statute is wrong.
BURNETT: So, Phil, I mean, it just seems were now just waiting on the day for Adam Schiff and others. But, I mean, it's pretty obvious here.
BUMP: Right. Yeah. I mean, it says in the docking of he lists three people, two of whom have now faced indictments, I -- you know, I don't know that Donald Trump really cares. I mean, he listed these three -- my guess is that he had had a bunch of people throw things in his face like, look, we got him on this and this. And he's like, great, go for it, right?
You know, to my prior point about looking for whatever he can. So, who knows who's next. Yesterday, he threatened to have the mayor of Chicago and the governor of Illinois thrown in jail.
I do want to reinforce that you raised a good point earlier, which is that during the Biden administration, not only did Biden not target Trump specifically, but there were prosecutions of his allies. And one of the things we've also seen, Donald Trump's DOJ do is apparently drop a case against a key ally of Donald Trump, which is Tom Homan, right?
BURNETT: Right.
BUMP: So, we have also seen this work not only for Trump exacting revenge, but that we also have these this politicization, apparently, of the DOJ in this other --
BURNETT: I mean, Tom Homan, a $50,000 bag of cash on tape, apparently with audio being exchanged.
CARLSON: And, look, this is a little bit inside baseball here. We all follow this on a daily basis on a minute-by-minute basis. But this is not why people voted for Donald Trump to become president last November. They voted specifically on inflation, the economy, immigration, and maybe "woke" politics, okay?
So they now are watching this and thinking to themselves, is, is this what I really want? Is -- do I want my president to combine himself with the Department of Justice? Do I want him to come after his political enemies? Because what happens the next time around when somebody else is in office? Is this the America -- BURNETT: Right, Senator Tillis was talking about that.
CARLSON: Yeah. I mean, is this the America that we want? I think that this could have an impact on the midterms if this continues. But I also would be very wary of anyone else who's on that list, because I think it will come true.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you.
Yeah?
SIMMONS: Pepper spray, pepper spraying priests and bags of cash are two things that people understand in America.
BURNETT: Yeah. All right. Well, thank you all very much. And that pepper spray, we do have breaking news. A federal judge moments ago temporarily blocking Trump from sending troops to Chicago as a Chicago pastor that Jamal is talking about, who was hit in the head with pepper balls fired by ICE joins me in his first television interview.
Plus, RFK Jr. with a new autism theory tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HHS SECRETARY: There's two studies that show children who are circumcised early have double the rate of autism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Tylenol. Now, circumcision.
And breaking news, Israel officially approving the Gaza cease fire as the U.S. announces it's sending 200 troops to the region.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:23:18]
BURNETT: Breaking news a major blow to Trump's crackdown on American cities. A judge just blocking Trump's deployment of National Guard troops to Chicago for at least two weeks, warning that it will only, quote, add fuel to the fire. The judge also calling the use of chemical agents against protesters, quote, arbitrary and indiscriminate. And in just a moment, I'm going to be speaking with the Chicago pastor who was shot in the head with pepper balls while praying in front of that ICE facility outside Chicago.
We told you about him last night. Today he was granted a restraining order by a judge against the federal government over its use of force against protesters, and he is joining us for his first television interview since the incident in just a moment.
But first, I want to go to Omar Jimenez. He's live outside that ICE facility near Chicago, the center of all of this.
And, Omar, this is a major ruling coming right now. OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's a major ruling and a major
moment that a lot of people had been waiting on here.
The judge granting this temporary restraining order, blocking President Trump's deployment of National Guard troops in Illinois on the same day that we got our first glimpses of Texas National Guard troops just behind me here in Broadview, outside Chicago.
Now, I want to take you through a little bit of what the judge considered here as part of her oral ruling, which she described as a high-level summary today. One of the things she talked about was describing what rebellion was. She described it as deliberate, organized resistance, openly opposing the government as a whole. And she said, I have seen no credible evidence that there has been rebellion in the state of Illinois.
And that's critical because, again, the government had been arguing that the protests that we have seen threatened this state of rebellion. She also talked about the protests that we've seen here, that there were at one point, 200 protesters, but 100 state and local law enforcement were on scene and were able to maintain control.
[19:25:09]
Ultimately, it seems, she said, this came down to the court having to make a, quote, credibility, determination. And she called the assessments made by DHS as unreliable as you can imagine. Governor J.B. Pritzker very happy with this decision, saying Donald Trump is not a king and his administration is not above the law. He had been pushing in that regard for a while and of course, helped lead this lawsuit that began this court process.
And I just got reaction in from Mayor Brandon Johnson of the city of Chicago that said, Judge Perry echoed many of the points we have made repeatedly. Trump's deployment is illegal and unconstitutional, dangerous and unnecessary. We will see what appeal efforts may come up as well. But obviously, a very big moment and day here in the Chicago area today -- Erin.
BURNETT: Absolutely. And, Omar, thank you very much, outside that facility just outside Chicago in Broadview, Illinois, that's been at the center of this.
And I want to go now, as promised to Reverend David Black. He was also at that facility. He's the minister of the first presbyterian church of Chicago. And I know, pastor, this is your first television interview since the moment that were showing here where you were shot seven times with pepper balls by ICE agents while praying outside that Broadview ICE facility where Omar is standing tonight.
And, Reverend, I really appreciate your being willing to speak with us about this because we had shown people this video last night. I know you sued the Trump administration after this happened, and today a federal judge granted you a victory, ordering federal agents from using riot control weapons against protesters, religious practitioners and journalists unless they have probable cause of a crime. Obviously, a significant victory, Reverend. What's your reaction to
that?
REV. DAVID BLACK, CHICAGO PASTOR SHOT BY ICE AGENTS WITH PEPPER BALLS: Well, it's a victory that belongs to everyone who lives in the United States of America, and particularly to the brave protesters and demonstrators who have been showing up. And I am so grateful for the work of the ACLU, and Loevy and Loevy, who argue this case so well and brought it to this conclusion.
BURNETT: So, you -- we were showing, right, those agents on the top of the roof, right? You were shot by pepper balls. You were obviously, you know, brought down to the ground and a top department of homeland security official is defending what they did to you and what they're saying, reverend, is quote, what this clip video doesn't show is that these agitators were blocking an ICE vehicle from leaving the federal facility, impeding operations over and over again. Law enforcement ordered these agitators to move off of federal property so the vehicle could move.
Law enforcement verbally warned these agitators that they would use force if they did not move and stop impeding operations. They did not comply. She then accused you of giving ICE agents the middle finger. I wanted to read all of that so that you would have a chance to respond to it.
BLACK: Thank you, Erin. It's categorically false. There were no ICE vehicles attempting to leave the facility, and I was standing to the side in a gesture of prayer and praying verbally for the ICE officers and those detained inside.
I find it interesting that this individual believes I flipped them the bird because theologically, as I've been praying for all of these people, I have been hoping that the Holy Spirit will descend upon them and convert their hearts and minds. And to the extent that the Holy Spirit appears as a bird, perhaps there is spiritual truth to her claim.
BURNETT: Which I understand what you're saying.
Okay, so you're saying that what they are alleging there is not true.
I want to show another moment, Reverend, where a large group of ICE agents are walking towards you. So here they are. They're walking towards you. They're shoving you. I just want everyone to get a chance. And now they can see you. They know who you are there. You're obviously in. Youve got your clerical collar on.
They are spraying what appears to be pepper spray at that time directly into your face. This I -- correct me if I'm wrong, I believe is after you had been hit with the pepper balls in the head. Do you know why they did this to you?
BLACK: No, there was no warning for any of these things. After they shot me in my head and my face and multiple times in my torso, arms and legs, I was shielded by the bodies of others who were there, who rushed in to support me and took many more hits that were intended for me.
I was then guided away to a place where street medics helped to wash out my eyes and try to keep me safe, but I was completely disabled at that point, and within two minutes, quite a number of ICE officers, maybe 15, maybe 20, rushed out of the gate and began to shove us down. And I was already disabled on the ground, but attempted to get away, and they continued to shove us in a kettling maneuver towards a place where we would not be able to escape as they brandished their weapons.
[19:30:04]
And you can see in that video, ICE officers shoving protesters who were standing and speaking and chanting and singing peacefully and praying peacefully, shoving us down, and then dispensing a huge amount of chemical weapons onto us.
I was drenched from the crown of my head to the socks and my shoes. It was indiscriminate and it was vicious.
BURNETT: I know you said that they were laughing. There were some of the agents laughing after this happened. Can you tell me more about that? What they did, and at that moment, what you thought?
BLACK: Yeah, we could hear them laughing as they were shooting us from the roof. And it was deeply disturbing. We've gotten to witness a few things about these ICE agents operating in broad view, and really, what it has shown us is how disorganized they are and how poorly supervised and trained they are.
We've also heard ICE agents talking to each other one, one of whom said man, I don't even remember why I'm here anymore. And the other said, I don't know either. So there's a deep demoralization that we are seeing as were bringing this peaceful and spiritual protest against their tactics and what they are doing to our city and our communities and our neighbors.
And I'm grateful to show up with these protesters, people who deeply believe in democracy and are bringing peaceful and moral witness against what the Trump administration is trying to do in Chicago.
BURNETT: Reverend Black, I'm grateful for your time, and thank you very much for being willing to come on and share the story.
BLACK: Thank you very much, Erin. And thank you for your moral courage in reporting on these stories.
BURNETT: Thank you. And next, RFK Jr., again, linking autism to Tylenol, while in the same breath admitting that he does not have the data to back up his claim.
Plus, viral videos of Katie Porter derailing what had been a promising campaign for the governor of California.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATIE PORTER (D), CALIFORNIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Out of my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) shot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:36:13]
BURNETT: Tonight, HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. suggesting there is a link now between circumcision and autism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENNEDY: There's two studies that show children who are circumcised early have double the rate of autism. And it's highly likely because they're given Tylenol.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Kennedy did not detail these studies or any other evidence to back up his claims, which of course, come after Kennedy and President Trump have both linked Tylenol use during pregnancy to autism, despite decades of evidence that it is safe.
OUTFRONT now, Dr. Scott Hadland, he is the chief of adolescent medicine at Massachusetts General Brigham for Children.
And I appreciate your time, Doctor. Thank you so much.
So, are you aware claims like this get made and they can be really scary for people? Obviously, most people circumcise their children. Are you aware of any studies or evidence to back up Secretary Kennedy linking circumcision to autism?
DR. SCOTT HADLAND, CHIEF OF ADOLESCENT MEDICINE AT MASS GENERAL BRIGHAM FOR CHILDREN: Right. Well, this conversation that has been really sort of erupted today has prompted a lot of us to take a look at the data and just make sure that we're not missing something. It is very clear. I've looked at the two studies that the secretary mentioned. It is very clear that there is not a strong evidence base that links circumcision to autism.
And when I look at those studies, there's a lot of methodologic concerns. Look, pediatricians actually recommend circumcision as something that families might choose because the benefits outweigh the risks. And this discussion today doesn't change how we think about that.
BURNETT: So, I want to play a bit more of what we heard from Secretary Kennedy, because he then went on to defend his claims of a link between Tylenol use and autism. Here's what he said just today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENNEDY: Somebody showed me a TikTok video of a pregnant woman at eight months pregnant. She is an associate professor at the Columbia Medical School, and she is saying F Trump and gobbling Tylenol with her baby in her placenta, it is not proof we're doing the studies to make the proof.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Okay, so he said her baby in her placenta were doing the studies to make the proof. What is your reaction to that? To the words and how he used them?
HADLAND: Well, I have a couple of reactions. The first one is that, you pediatricians like me, are really focused on the science, and many of us have, you know, in the last couple of weeks, just looked back at the science to make sure we're not missing something. There is not a clear link between Tylenol and autism. There just really isn't, when you take a look at the data.
And so, you see major organizations like the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology saying, look, Tylenol is safe in pregnancy. It's safe for babies. And we can continue to give it to help relieve families suffering.
BURNETT: President Trump went on a long rant about this again, and he has done as you know, he has put on social media. He has spoken about it today. He talked again about saying to pregnant women that they should avoid Tylenol use. I want to play some of what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I would say on Tylenol, don't take it. And that will be -- I think it's going to be a big factor. I think it will be -- I think it will be a very good result. There are other things you can do, but you have to tough it out. I'm addressing it the best I can as a non- doctor, but I'm a man of common sense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Of course, science on these things is very important and it doesn't back it up. I'm just curious, Dr. Hadland, in your practice right now and you've gone through and looked, as you said, at the studies on circumcision. Now, the studies on Tylenol, what are your patients doing and what are they asking you?
[19:40:02]
I mean, they've also been told by the president now multiple times to do something that the science has not recommended, which is to split up all of the childhood vaccinations. One MMR shot, no more. Go ahead and get it in three or five installments or whatever it is that he's saying. What are families asking you about?
HADLAND: Families are coming to us with a lot of questions. And this isn't new, right? It's the job of pediatricians and doctors to be good providers of good, high quality information. So that hasn't changed. I think our work has gotten a little bit more difficult because this misinformation is being sort of shown on such a large stage right now, but ill highlight that actually, earlier on today, a national survey from the Kaiser Family Foundation actually showed that if you look at Americans from across political lines, 83 percent of them trust their health care provider as a source of high quality information. And that's actually much higher than many other sources of information that they have.
And so, our job as pediatricians, as doctors, is to be there and help families navigate this misinformation and to provide high quality information that can help guide them to make the right decision.
BURNETT: I'm really glad you brought that up. I hadn't seen it from Kaiser. I'm so glad you did. I'm glad to see the results when obviously there's such a lack of faith and information sources, whether it be media or public health. After all of those things, that is something to be grateful for, that people do trust their primary providers. Thank you so much, Doctor. I appreciate your time.
HADLAND: Thanks for having.
BURNETT: And next, Katie Porter caught on camera viral videos raising questions about her have turned the California race for governor on its head. So where are these videos suddenly coming from?
Plus, breaking news, the Israeli government formally approving the ceasefire resolution, but Cardinal Pizzaballa, who has been to Gaza, has a warning tonight. He's our guest.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:46:02]
BURNETT: Tonight, campaign and chaos. Democrat Katie Porter, who was once a rising star with her tough questioning of the country's top CEOs, is now going viral for not good reasons. Newly uncovered video shows the former congresswoman lashing out at her staffing, saying, "Get out of my F-ing shot," this days after a cringeworthy interview with a local journalist went viral, and now, betting platform Kalshi shows that Porter's chances of becoming governor in 2026 have plummeted in the last day from 40 percent to 18 percent.
Elex Michaelson, CNN's newest anchor and expert on anything California politics is OUTFRONT with how two days have thrown the state governors race in California into total turmoil.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PORTER: Out of my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) shot!
ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Then Congresswoman Katie Porter lashes out at her staffer in this 2021 zoom call with a member of the Biden administration obtained by "Politico".
For years, there's been chatter from California to Washington about Porter's treatment of her staff, and now, it's on video.
PORTER: You also were in my shot before that. Stay out of my shot.
MICHAELSON (voice-over): Porter denied CNN's request for an interview, but her campaign sent us a statement that says, in part, quote, "I have sought to be more intentional in showing gratitude to my staff for their important work."
This video coming on the heels of Porter's CBS interview.
PORTER: I'm going to call it. Thank you.
MICHAELSON (voice-over): That went viral because of moments like this.
INTERVIEWER: What do you say to the 40 percent of California voters who you'll need in order to win who voted for Trump?
PORTER: How would I need them in order to win, ma'am?
INTERVIEWER: Well, unless you think you're going to get 60 percent of the vote, do you think you'll get 60 percent? All -- everybody who did not vote for Trump will vote for you. Thats what you're saying?
PORTER: In a general election?
INTERVIEWER: Yes.
MICHAELSON (voice-over): In 2024, nearly 40 percent of California voters cast their ballots for Trump. California has twice as many registered Democrats as Republicans.
PORTER: I don't want to keep doing this. I'm going to call it. Thank you.
INTERVIEWER: You're not going to do the interview with us?
PORTER: Nope. Not like this. I'm not -- not with seven follow-ups to every single question you ask.
MICHAELSON (voice-over): Porter stayed for an additional 20 minutes of questions about her campaign for California governor, but her frustration with follow ups is ironic, since Porter made a name for herself wielding a whiteboard and asking tough questions and plenty of follow ups during congressional hearings.
PORTER: Any increase in the price of Revlimid would also increase your bonus by increasing earnings. Isn't that right, Mr. Ellis?
MICHAELSON (voice-over): Her reputation as a minivan driving, relatable single mom of three --
PORTER: Get in, loser. We're going voting.
MICHAELSON (voice-over): -- has helped to make Porter a leading contender in Californias governor's race.
ANTONIO VILLARAIGOSA (D), CALIFORNIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I'm Antonio Villaraigosa. I approve this ad.
MICHAELSON (voice-over): Antonio Villaraigosa buying a three-minute ad on Sacramento TV stations and airing the CBS interview.
Betty Yee posting Porter is, quote, self-destructive and asking for her to drop out of the race.
But one possible candidate hasn't criticized porter.
MICHAELSON: California's U.S. Senator Alex Padilla, who by all accounts is considering whether or not to jump into the governor's race and recently had his own viral moment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands behind your back.
SEN. ALEX PADILLA (D-CA): Let go of my hands. Don't put them behind my back.
MICHAELSON (voice-over): Padilla, detained while asking a question of U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem.
When CNN's Manu Raju asked Padilla about the Porter videos, the senator responded, quote, 'I'm not even sure what to say".
On how damaging it is for her, he said, quote, "That's up to the people of California."
WHOOPI GOLDBERG, CO-HOST OF "THE VIEW": Maybe people are having a bad day.
MICHAELSON (voice-over): Porter getting some support from the co-host on ABC's "The View".
GOLDBERG: We see these videos where guys --
JOY BEHAR, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": Trump does it every minute.
MICHAELSON (voice-over): Voters we talked with in Los Angeles, a little less forgiving.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn't know that Katie Porter had that in her actually.
MICHAELSON: This is your first impression of her. Is this video?
A.J. JOHNSON, L.A. RESIDENT: Yeah.
MICHAELSON: Does it make you want to vote for her?
JOHNSON: No. I guess not.
HEIDI VAN TASSELL, L.A. VOTER: You know, I have friends in England who saw it and were like, what's up with this woman?
MICHAELSON: And what did you say?
VAN TASSELL: I said, I don't know, she sounds pretty -- I don't want her as my governor, so it's too bad, you know?
[19:50:03]
MICHAELSON: It makes you think differently about her. VAN TASSELL: Of course. Of course.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Elex, it's amazing. We've watched Katie Porter in those whiteboards in Washington that she was so famous for. And I know that no one knows more about the California race, California politics than you, right? Gavin Newsom, Arnold Schwarzenegger, all of them are names you've interviewed so many times, including Katie Porter. Has she done irreparable harm? I mean, this is a governor's race, obviously, that matters for the whole country.
MICHAELSON: First off, good to be with you, Erin. In terms of that, look, there's a long way to go. A week is an eternity in politics. The primary is not until June.
But one thing that was interesting in talking to people today, a lot of people said that they had never heard of Katie Porter until this, which means there are people that don't pay that close to politics. And this is breaking through in a way many other things haven't.
In terms of Porter's strategy, its clear her strategy has been this be a strong Democratic frontrunner, lift up a Republican, and then win. But if Padilla gets in the race, which could happen because of this, that could really hurt that strategy. And Padilla was asked by Manu Raju today, when would you potentially make a decision by, he says he still doesn't have any hard date.
BURNETT: It's really all going to be fascinating. But as you point out, if no one knows who you are and then they suddenly do, is it okay if it's for something like this or not? I mean, we'll see.
Elex, thank you so much.
I want everyone to know, you know, beyond thrilled to have Alex here at CNN. We are lucky. His new show debuts in a few weeks right here. He's going to be on from midnight to 2:00 a.m. Eastern, 9:00 to 11:00 prime Pacific Time.
So, Elex, welcome to you.
And next, we've got the breaking news. The Israeli government just approving Trump's ceasefire deal. But will it hold? And at what cost?
Cardinal Pizzaballa, the top Catholic in Jerusalem, has been to Gaza during this conflict. Multiple times. He's seen it all firsthand. And he's OUTFRONT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:56:10]
BURNETT: Breaking news, the Israeli government just formally approved the ceasefire resolution. This comes after Israeli strikes killed at least 30 people in Gaza since Trump announced the deal. That's according to the Palestinian health official. Our next guest has witnessed the catastrophe inside Gaza. He is the
cardinal of the catholic church in Jerusalem, Cardinal Pierbattista Pizzaballa.
Cardinal Pizzaballa, I so much appreciate your time tonight.
How hopeful are you tonight that this is really over?
CARDINAL PIERBATTISTA PIZZABALLA, LATIN PATRIARCH OF JERUSALEM: I very we are all very happy about this first step of this agreement that will bring a smile in the family of the Israeli hostages and many also Palestinian prisoners and many people also, especially in Gaza, the population of Gaza. But the road to the end, the final agreement is still very, very, very long. And there are a lot of obstacles there are many, many things that are still very vague about the future agreement.
So, we have not to delude ourselves -- not to delude ourselves that things will be that easy.
BURNETT: More than 67,000 people, most of them women and children, of course, have been killed in Gaza since the war began, according to the Palestinian health ministry. The death toll obviously is going to be a lot higher. There are so many believed to be trapped under the rubble, just to even consider what a horrific death that must have been.
Can you even put into words, Cardinal, the human loss of this war?
PIZZABALLA: Is, I don't think he -- I don't have the words about this. All the words cannot represent really what has been for the population of Gaza this period, and also the horror of the deaths, the people and so on is a crime. Of course, I think crime -- horrific crime, unacceptable and morally unjustifiable. All what we can use our expression, are not able to anyway to express properly the level of suffering, pain and also anger within the population.
BURNETT: You know, as you're talking, were showing some of the images of, you know, a place that is uninhabitable. I mean, 90 percent of the residential buildings are gone in Gaza, destroyed. And there's also another 90 percent figure that 90 percent of the water sanitation, the hygiene resources have been destroyed in Gaza.
Cardinal, where are these people going to go -- you know, to end and to have the idea of going home. But home is not there anymore. Where are they going to go?
PIZZABALLA: It's a big question. We don't know what is going to happen after the war if the war will finish, really finish, and everything has to be rebuilt anew -- all the infrastructures, housing, houses, schools.
Don't forget, it's a third year without schools. So how to talk about future of the children if they for three years without school and hospitals?
You said water. Everything has to be rebuilt anew. For the first period, they will be totally dependent from the humanitarian support from abroad, from the international society or any other institutions. And the rebuilding will take years.
Meanwhile, what to do? Some will leave for sure, but many are meanwhile, what to do some will leave for sure, but many are very rooted there. They want to remain there. This will be a big question. And the main concern also for all those who have to take responsibility for the future.
BURNETT: Cardinal Pizzaballa, your beatitude, thank you so very much for your time.
PIZZABALLA: Thank you to you.
BURNETT: Thanks to all of you for joining us.
"AC360" starts now.
