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Erin Burnett Outfront

Prince Andrew Loses Royal Titles; Book Reveals New Epstein Details; New Video: Feds Ram Immigration Rights Volunteer's Truck; Video: Crowds Line Up At Stores Around The World To Buy Gold. Aired 7- 8p ET

Aired October 17, 2025 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:38]

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:

The breaking news. The Epstein fallout growing tonight. Prince Andrew giving up his royal titles as a new book accuses him of having sex with a 17-year-old trafficked by Jeffrey Epstein. But what about powerful men here in the United States? Are any of them going to pay a price for their Epstein ties?

Plus, a dangerous ICE encounter. New video just into OUTFRONT tonight shows unmarked ICE agents slamming into the side of a U.S. citizen's pickup truck. That man then detained. But for what? Well, the man driving the truck is our guest in his first national interview.

And global gold rush. There are long lines of people around the world right now lining up to buy gold. It's an incredible thing. Is it a bad thing of sign -- of things to come?

Let's go OUTFRONT.

(MUSIC)

BURNETT: And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett on this Friday.

And OUTFRONT tonight, Jeffrey Epstein haunting the world's most powerful men. We begin with the breaking news at this hour, which is that Prince Andrew has been stripped of all his royal titles by his brother the king. It comes as the younger brother of King Charles is accused again of forcing sexual encounters with a teenager who was trafficked by Jeffrey Epstein.

The vile details coming out in a new bombshell book written by Virginia Giuffre. It's called nobody's girl, and it's set to be published next week. And there is a lot in there. Now, Virginia Giuffre, she wrote this book, this is her memoir, this is her story. She did die earlier this year by suicide, writing that Andrew was entitled as if he believed having sex with me was his birthright. Now that's according to excerpts published by "The Guardian".

Now, Giuffre says that when this happened, she was 17 years old, and she describes in this book three occasions where she says Prince Andrew had sex with her. Andrew has denied wrongdoing, but he settled in 2002 with Giuffre for an undisclosed amount. And now being stripped of his titles by his brother. Imagine that conversation, especially because nearly 4,000 miles away here in the United States, there's no such conversation going on. Powerful men so far, nothing.

But maybe tonight, they are scared because this is where Epstein lived and built his empire. And yet, the full truth is still to come out about who, aside from Epstein and his convicted accomplice Ghislaine Maxwell, was sexually assaulting underage girls. Now there has yet to be a vote on the House floor on a bipartisan bill which would release the full Epstein files.

And there's a reason for that. There is one person who is responsible for that, and that is Speaker Mike Johnson. He will not bring that to the floor. So, members of Congress, again, this is bipartisan, found a way around this, around Johnsons stonewalling through what's called a discharge position.

So, they can go around him and they can gain a vote on it anyway. They just have to have enough votes for that. Well, guess what they do. They have enough votes. The final yes vote to get it over the finish line belongs to Congresswoman-elect Adelita Grijalva.

She was elected 24 days ago. So why is she not sitting in Congress? Because the minute she's sworn in, the vote will happen.

Well, Speaker Johnson is refusing to swear her in.

Well, today, Senator Chuck Schumer posted this video in Manhattan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), MINORITY LEADER: Speaker Johnson is more concerned about protecting what happened in here, than what happens in here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Well, the Republican co-sponsor of the Epstein bill to release all the files is Thomas Massie. And he says, and I quote him, the government is shut down, but the House refuses to go back into session. Why are we in recess? Because the day we go back into session, I have 218 votes for the discharge position to force a vote on releasing the Epstein files.

There's also the president, whose own DOJ told him he's in the Epstein files multiple times. He is trying everything he can to turn the page past the Epstein investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Epstein hoax, it's just a hoax. The whole Epstein thing is a Democratic hoax. Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? This guy's been talked about for years.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: Of course, it's bipartisan. And, of course, abusing underage girls is not a hoax.

We should note Trump, who was close friends with Epstein for over a decade, has not been charged with any wrongdoing. But the men who committed wrongdoing have not been held to account, in part because of the plea deal that Epstein pulled off in 2007, where he avoided federal charges and a potentially lengthy sentence. The former Trump cabinet official Alex Acosta, who was the architect of that plea deal -- well, this is what he did.

[19:05:01]

He sent Epstein to jail for 13 months. He allowed Epstein to leave for 12 hours a day, six days a week, in order to work and continue to see underage girls.

Virginia Giuffre writes about the first time that Ghislaine Maxwell introduced her to Prince Andrew. She says at the time she was 17 years old. According to the BBC, Giuffre says they went to dinner in a nightclub and on the way home, she says Ghislaine Maxwell told her when we get home you are to do for him what you do for Jeffrey.

And then she wrote of what happened next. He was friendly enough, but still entitled, as if he believed d having sex with me was his birthright.

Now, Ghislaine Maxwell is serving a 20 year prison sentence for trafficking a minor for sex, being the accomplice for Jeffrey Epstein. But after two lengthy meetings with Trump's DOJ, she was suddenly very quickly moved to a minimum security prison in Texas, where prison consultant Sam Mengel, who has clients in the same facility in maxwell that he's talking to their families, knows what's happening in there. He says that they say she is treated like she's a guest at a hotel in there.

Is that because Ghislaine Maxwell has said all the right things?

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

GHISLAINE MAXWELL, EPSTEIN ACCOMPLICE: As far as I'm concerned, President Trump was always very cordial and very kind to me. And I just want to say that I find -- I admire his extraordinary achievement in becoming the president now. And I like him. And I've always liked him. So that is the sum and substance of my entire relationship with him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: OUTFRONT now, Barry Levine, the former editor of "The National Enquirer", author of "The Spider", which is about Epstein and Maxwell, and also with us, Tara Palmeri, who has reported on Epstein and Maxwell extensively, also the host of "The Tara Palmeri Show" and author of "The Red Letter" on Substack, has had so much exclusive reporting on all of this.

So grateful to both of you.

So, Tara, this comes out, this this book is coming out. Virginia Giuffre and people are talking about it. Maybe people who knew about this story generally, but not specifically. And they're now going to see specific horrible things in black and white. What does this mean? Does this put more pressure on Trump, on Speaker Johnson for transparency or not?

TARA PALMERI, REPORTED EXTENSIVELY ON EPSTEIN AND MAXWELL: I think that her story is an incredibly graphic and horrific one, one that, honestly is hard to even script. Having known her so well, we traveled around the country together. I've heard the brutality that she went through, and I think when you hear this through her voice and you understand even the concept of it, nobody's girl that no one was looking out for, and that so many of these victims have the exact same story.

And when you see, even in the passages that have been released, the descriptions of the men she's talking about, you know, a senator from the Midwest, a hedge fund man, and his wife. I mean, it is something that a lot of people have been nervous about. This book will certainly cause a lot of earthquakes, whether there are names or not. Names like Prince Andrew is obviously named in the book, and its caused -- it's caused some serious repercussions in the U.K.

The question is, when are people in the U.S. going to pay for what is so blatantly out there and what we know?

BURNETT: Right. And we know there are more, but you know, you can imagine, Barry, were saying King Charles, the brother, you know, sitting down with his brother and stripping him of his titles because of this. So, it was the Republican Congressman, Thomas Massie, and I just quoted him a moment ago, but he came out about the Epstein files, talking about who was in them, right?

In the United States, who else is there that now there may be more pressure on? Here's what Congressman Massie said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): That list also includes at least 19 other individuals. One Hollywood producer worth a few hundred million dollars, one royal prince, one high profile individual in the music industry, one very prominent banker, one high profile government official, one high profile former politician, one owner of a car company in Italy, one rock star, one magician. At least six billionaires, including a billionaire from Canada. We know these people exist in the FBI files.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: I have two separate but important questions on this. First, do you think this new book from Virginia Giuffre that's coming out is going to shed light on more of these individuals?

BARRY LEVINE, AUTHOR, "THE SPIDER": Well, Erin, you know, we have known through court testimony and interviews that she's given that there's about a half dozen men, including Prince Andrew, that she has named as being trafficked to. Representative Massie brings that number up to 19. So, there's many other individuals that we had heard rumors about. But he has very specific information about these men.

And, you know, there's material in those files that would hopefully corroborate some evidence against these individuals. And these are, as you know, as he said, these are people here in the U.S. and abroad. And we need to investigate all of these men, including the half dozen that Virginia is likely to discuss.

[19:10:06]

BURNETT: And she's likely at least half a dozen. And then Massie talks about 19.

LEVINE: Yes.

BURNETT: Tara, again, Massie, seeing what Massie seen. But that whole release, all the Epstein files, we don't -- we don't -- we don't know how many additional people could be in there or what, right?

PALMERI: Right. And if you look at Virginia Giuffre's depositions, which are in the Epstein files right now on the FBI's website, remember when Pam Bondi said here classified documents, but they were just Virginia Giuffre's depositions? There are a number of names, but there are -- they are redacted. They are blacked out.

And the question is, if we get these Epstein files, if the DOJ somehow is compelled to release them, if somehow President Trump actually signs that law, are they just going to release the same thing that we've already seen, which is --

BURNETT: And can we just do some basic math here because you've done so many reporting, both of you, but on the victims, right?

PALMERI: Yes.

BURNETT: The number of victims that that you know of at least is what?

PALMERI: The FBI estimates 1,000 victims, which would probably be a conservative estimate because the FBI is not going to exaggerate that.

BURNETT: So, 1,000 victims, at least. That's not all. Probably, Barry, probably going to be six to 19 men, right?

LEVINE: No, there's no question that there are probably dozens of men who took part in the sex trafficking, not to mention individuals like the enablers who put girls on planes to the Virgin Islands to be abused. There are individuals that are out there -- that are still out there that that can be corroborated. And that's what we really need to do.

In fact, we know that Jeffrey Epstein paid $1 billion through bank funds, paid out money to people all around the world, money that was moved through, not only in the U.S., but also through Russian banks. So there's a record. There's a record for these investigators to go down and to compile the names of these, you know, suspicious individuals and bring them to justice.

There is still time. You know, Virginia is not with us. And those men are likely to escape prosecution. But so many others as Representative Massie said, can potentially be brought to justice.

BURNETT: Yes.

LEVINE: So, let's hope that her book, you know, pushes forward to the public and lets investigate these men.

BURNETT: And that her book may make that difference even though she's not here. Her book can do that. Continue her work.

Thank you both so very much.

And OUTFRONT now, Sky and Amanda Roberts, Virginia Giuffre's brother and sister in law.

And, Sky, a big day. Prince Andrew confirming he's giving up his remaining royal titles. His brother the king doing that ahead of your sister's book -- because of your sister's book, I think is obviously clear. Is this the justice you've been seeking for your sister when it comes even to Andrew, specifically, or does it fall short.

SKY ROBERTS, BROTHER OF VIRGINIA GIUFFRE: I think today is a day where we've shed a lot of happy and sad tears. I think happy because -- sorry -- happy because it's a good start.

This is what my sister was fighting for, for so many years. Justice for her survivor sisters and we're happy that the U.K. was willing to do something about it, that the king came out and put pressure on this situation, and actually did something about it. And I think she'd be sitting here today incredibly proud of her survivor sisters. Her kids get to know their mom as somebody that really did something in this world that she actually spread a lot of good and was able to hold people to account, such as Prince Andrew, which, mind you, I think the king should strip him of the prince part as well, to be clear.

But I also want to -- I also want to say it's a very sad day because, Erin, she should be she should be here talking to you today. It shouldn't be me. She should be sitting here and having this conversation.

So, it's a very happy day, and I'm so excited and so proud of her. But it's a very sad day because I feel like this is the conversation she was waiting for to sit here with you to say, I'm here. I'm heard, my survivor sisters are heard and we are truth tellers. We have been telling the truth for years, and I think that's been proven.

BURNETT: And she made so much sacrifice and suffered so much. I mean, you know, her death by suicide, you know, as she fought through all of this for so long, trying to get the truth out there.

Amanda, do you believe with her book coming out, her work and what were seeing now with Prince Andrew, do you think that it is -- it is really time that powerful men in the United States, whether there are 19 or dozens or however many there are, is it time for them to finally be nervous that they will face justice as Prince Andrew is now?

[19:15:00]

AMANDA ROBERTS, SISTER-IN-LAW OF VIRGINIA GIUFFRE: I think what this book does is two very powerful things. We get caught up in the salacious idea of naming names, but what this book does, it brings it back to the surface. The humanity she really explains to you what it means to be a survivor and how it felt as a teenager to be abused by the most powerful and influential people in this world, and that -- if that doesn't pull on your heartstrings, then you have no heart.

And I think that is what is so powerful about this book. I hope that it encourages the people in charge in the U.S. We have an opportunity here. It lays on our doorstep. And I hope that this book encourages them to see through a survivors' eyes. The trauma, the life trauma that this has caused.

BURNETT: Well, it is incredible, as you point out, just to imagine, for anyone to imagine for a moment, being 17 and in a room with someone like Prince Andrew told by Ghislaine Maxwell, do for him what you do for Jeffrey. Something about that you know, I think anyone could try to imagine, to try to put themselves in her shoes.

Sky, there are some newly released transcripts coming out today, and I don't want to imply that this is some big part of the Epstein files, because it's not. But there are new transcripts that involve Alex Acosta, the former U.S. attorney who then subsequently went on to be a cabinet official in the last Trump administration. He defended the plea deal that he gave to Epstein, right, the one where Epstein got to leave for 12 hours a day and continue assaulting young girls during that time.

And he wrote, Acosta did, "Many victims refused to testify. Many victims had changing stories. All of us understood why they had changing stories, but they did. And defense counsel would have cross- examined, would have cross examination would have been withering."

It sounds like he's trying to say, well, you know, we understood that it would be hard to be a young girl and have your story changing, but there's no way it would have held up under cross-examination. And so, we didn't bother. What's your response to that?

SKY ROBERTS: I want to first start with that, my sister was very hurt by the sweetheart deal. She communicated with me on several times -- I think it's even publicly stated that she was hurt by this. She thought he didn't nearly do enough justice and allowed -- let's be clear -- allowed Epstein to continue to abuse young women and children for nine more years. That's on his hands.

Don't think that this deal, because he got put in jail was just the end all, be all. He was able to go on work release. He was able to continue his abuse throughout a handful of years. And so one thing, and it's an excerpt in the book, is that, you know, she noted this and this is what Alex Acosta needs to understand is that she may not have remembered the places, she may not have remembered the times, but she said, I will never forget the faces of the men that sexually assaulted me.

And that's why I think it's important to truly understand the scope of this, because I don't think he grasps that. I think he's just continuing down the same pathway of trying to defend the reason he didn't do the right thing, and the reality is he did a just justice to my sister and to all survivors out there and continues to do it with these statements to our Congress. Like its disgraceful, Alex. Like it's disgraceful.

BURNETT: Alex, Virginia's memoir is called "Nobody's Girl". And as Tara was talking about, nobody's girl in the sense that nobody was there to defend her, to help her, her memoir. And in it, she writes about Prince Andrew and her encounters and "The Guardian" excerpt that was published, Amanda, it says, we put him in jail, or he was friendly enough but is still entitled, as if he believed having sex with me was his birthright. That sentence is so profound.

What else? As you've had a chance to read this book, and obviously were all going to have a chance to read it in full, what else do you take away from Virginia's book?

AMANDA ROBERTS: You take away this sense of admiration and courage. You take away this understanding of all the sacrifices every single survivor made to come forward. And they trusted their government to do the right thing. And it failed them over and over again.

And in spite of that, these women, in their truth, continued to pursue justice relentlessly. That Virginia was truly courageous. She was human, she was flawed, and she was beautiful in every single way.

[19:20:02]

And that is a representation of every single survivor. And I hope that it calls us to action, not just every single human, every single person. We have a responsibility to our children and the future for our children to hold these people accountable and demand change.

BURNETT: Sky, and Amanda, thank you both very much for joining us in this. Obviously significant news for Prince Andrew. Appreciate your time, to both of you.

And next, ICE agents seen on videos ramming the back of an American citizen's pickup truck. That man taken into custody. So why? What happened? Well, he is OUTFRONT to tell his story.

And a Putin-Trump tunnel between Russia and the United States. That is what a top Putin aide, in fact, the top Putin aide doing a lot of these negotiations is now pitching directly to Elon Musk.

And Trump joking about it in front of Zelenskyy today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Do you have any ideas? How do you like that idea?

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: I'm not happy with this.

TRUMP: I don't think you're going to like it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: And the breaking news, quote, have a great life. Trump just ordering former Congressman George Santos to be released from prison. Someone who, of course had defrauded donors, lied about his past and pled guilty to fraud.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:25:31]

BURNETT: Breaking news, we have new video just into OUTFRONT and we'll show it to you. What you're looking at is ICE agents in an unmarked vehicle slamming into a U.S. citizens pickup truck. So that's what you actually watch happening here. So that is an ICE agent in that car. The pickup truck is the American citizen.

Leo Martinez is an immigration rights volunteer in California. He was driving through the neighborhood monitoring ICE activity, which he had been doing for months before that. The agents who have been involved with ICE raids knew who he was.

But in this case, everything was different. Agents rammed his truck and then they took him into custody. The incident ignited outrage and protests. Martinez was hospitalized after that car rammed into him. Later, after that, they booked him into a detention center. Of course, he's an American citizen.

CNN has reached out to both DHS and ICE repeatedly since yesterday. So far, no response from either agency, but Leo Martinez is OUTFRONT now in his first national interview since the incident.

And, Leo, I really appreciate your taking the time. I'm glad you're okay.

When we watch that footage and we'll play it again. But you're in the pickup truck and then you're rammed, and I know you have dashcam footage of all of the time leading up to that actual moment as well. The ICE agents in the SUV, you then sort of seem to be driving in circles as we can watch this. Can you explain to me exactly what was happening here?

LEO MARTINEZ, U.S. CITIZEN & IMMIGRATION RIGHTS VOLUNTEER DETAINED AFTER CRASH: Yeah, this was the first time in all the months that we've been doing this that the agents turned on us being legal observers, we keep our distance, we keep our safe distance to keep tabs on where they're at. But this is the first time that they turn their aggression towards us and really started coming after us. So that's something new. I was trying to stay away from them is why we

were moving in circles, because they kept following me and moving towards me. And once they hit me, I knew that it was a -- it was a new ball game and we were going to have to deal with this a little differently in the future, because now they have no problem with -- they've already pulled guns on us, they've already done a multitude of things, but one thing is coming after us in their vehicles.

BURNETT: Now, as you point out, you've been doing this for months. So, the many of these ICE agents, I don't know about these specific ones and maybe this is part of it, but they were familiar with you and your work in monitoring them. You have been patrolling neighborhoods on your own, and you've said in many cases when you would show up and see them trying to detain people, they would just leave, right? And it would stop detentions from happening.

But in this case, we only see the ramming happening. And obviously you can see the significant damage to the back door of your pickup truck. But what led up to this?

LEO MARTINEZ, U.S. CITIZEN & IMMIGRATION RIGHTS VOLUNTEER DETAINED AFTER CRASH: I think it's an accumulation of things. We -- it's -- I'm one of so many volunteers that are doing this in Ventura County every day, starting from 5:30 in the morning, 6:00 in the morning. We also do neighborhood preparedness plans. So they've been kicked out of multiple neighborhoods already at this point.

And I think it's a lot of frustration on their part of not being able to operate with impunity wherever they want, however they want. And as an organized community, we have no other choice. We're not going to be able to rely on police to keep us safe. We're not going to be able to rely on any politicians or anybody else. So, we have to organize and do these things on our own, and we're doing this with our hands tied behind our backs.

So, the fact that were frustrating them with the limited resources and abilities that we can do, we're not the ones out here with guns. We're not the ones out here kidnapping people. We're not the ones out here wiling out.

So, the ways that we can defend ourselves have to be not only legal and safe, but we have to be able to do them out in the open, which is what we've been doing. And it's enough to frustrate them and cause them to lose their cool and start ramming into people and smashing windows and pulling guns on other volunteers and things like that.

BURNETT: But I mean, Leo, all of that is pretty terrifying. And this is America. It's not something that people like to think about as happening. Just someone ram -- law enforcement ramming into somebody's car. What went through your head when that SUV hit your truck? In that moment when you realize that, as you said, this was different.

MARTINEZ: I was in shock. I knew at that point I was going to end up in handcuffs for sure. And in that moment, my biggest fear was stopping the car and getting out, because these are the same agents that have already pulled guns out on a bunch of us. And in the street where this happened, it was a very lonely street.

[19:30:01]

There wasn't a whole lot of traffic going on. I'm surprised. I didn't know about the footage until after I got released from detention, but my goal at that point was to get somewhere where there was a lot more witnesses. In my head, I was like, if they're going to drag me out, beat me up and scrape me up, I'd rather have them do it in a in an open public area where everybody could see, as opposed to a random side street where there's not going to be any witnesses. That was the only thing that was going through my head at the moment.

BURNETT: Have they charged you with anything?

MARTINEZ: No. After processing, they released me on pending charges. They've done that to some of our other volunteers as well. So that's something that's not new to us. And I think that's a testament to how effective and, how organized we are as a group and as a county, because we've faced off against this already in the past, never to this extent. We've had different incidents happen, but also at the same time, we have legal counsel across the board.

We have just I'm incredibly grateful for the team that responded really quickly on our behalf and was able to mobilize. And it wasn't just because it was me. It could have happened to any one of the volunteers that day. It just coincidentally happened to be me.

BURNETT: Leo, thank you very much. I appreciate it and appreciate you sharing that footage with us.

And next, Trump joking about a tunnel between the United States and Russia in front of Zelenskyy. A tunnel that Russia, the top negotiator from Russia, actually directly pitched Elon Musk to build.

Plus, a rush for gold. People are lining up across the world. It's not just the price. They're literally lining up to try to buy actual gold. It's kind of terrifying. Is it a sign of trouble?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:35:51]

BURNETT: Breaking news, a Putin Trump tunnel, a top Putin aide pitching the idea to Elon Musk directly so everyone could see it on Twitter of a tunnel from Russia to Alaska asking for Elon Musk's tunnel company called Boring Company to do the honors. President Trump today didn't even rule out the idea, tried to make light of it when he was asked during a meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I just heard about it. A tunnel from Russia to Alaska. I just heard about that one. That's an interesting one. We'll have to think about that. This came up yesterday. A tunnel from Russia to Alaska.

That's an interesting -- what do you think of that, Mr. President? Do you have any ideas? How do you like that idea?

ZELENSKYY: I'm not happy with this.

TRUMP: I don't think you're going to like it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: It's almost like you see the laughing, and yet you think about all the people dying as were talking about this.

Trump made the comment, though, because this was pitched. It was pitched by Putin's envoy, Kirill Dmitriev, who has managed so much of the negotiations. Dmitriev responded by saying, quote, the tunnel discussions begin right after Trump made that comment saying, quote/unquote, we'll tunnel through every obstacle to piece together again, mocking and making light of the situation.

But Dmitriev is the one who pitched the idea first, saying that Elon Musk imagined connecting the U.S. and Russia, the Americas, and the Afro-Eurasia with the Putin Trump tunnel, a 70-mile link symbolizing unity. And then he put that whole map up with all the details that you can see literally showing what this tunnel across the Bering Strait would look like.

It comes as Trump says he believes he can still convince Putin to end the war, even though he is admitting its possible Putin is just stringing him along.

OUTFRONT now, Vladimir Kara-Murza, top Putin critic who was recently freed from a Russian penal colony after being arrested for criticizing Putin and calling the conflict in Ukraine what it is, which is a war.

Vladimir, at the end of the day, when Putin is looking at everything that's happening, the meeting today of Trump and Zelenskyy, the conversation, all of this, is he pleased or is he scared well.

VLADIMIR KARA-MURZA, RECENTLY FREED FROM RUSSIAN PRISON AFTER CRITICIZING PUTIN: We know the response to your question because after the last time the two met in Alaska, actually in Anchorage about six weeks ago, what we saw is a relentless intensification of Russian bombardments of Ukrainian cities, especially residential areas, especially a pronounced rise in civilian casualties because Putin obviously saw that he's not going to face any serious obstacles or opposition or resistance from the United States of America.

And now, we're about to witness a repeat of that in Budapest. Apparently, the next couple of weeks, there was that phone call between the American president and the Russian dictator yesterday, in which Trump and Putin agreed to meet in Budapest. And, you know, a lot of people might be thinking of another European city, Munich, where back in 1938, Western democracies gave away a part of another sovereign country to Adolf Hitler, the infamous Munich agreement.

You know, I think a lot of your viewers will remember those images of British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain waving that piece of paper and saying, I brought you peace for our time. We know how that one work out.

If there's one clear lesson from history is that appeasing a dictator, appeasing an aggressor never leads to actual peace. It only leads to war. More war, more blood, more suffering, and it's just painful to watch the current president of the United States of America walk into the very same traps that the world walked into almost a century ago, leading us into the Second World War.

BURNETT: So on this issue of the specific here is more weapons to Ukraine, and specifically those long-range precision missiles called Tomahawks that the U.S. has, that Zelenskyy has wanted.

A few days ago, Trump sounded like he was on the verge of agreeing to give Zelenskyy those tomahawks, right? Now, those Tomahawks could hit Moscow in a precision way. Zelensky has portrayed this as a game changer in the war. So, Trump had opened the door to it. Then there's the call, right? The 2-1/2-hour phone call and Putin talks to Trump, and he shares why he doesn't like the Tomahawks.

And then suddenly after that call today, Trump seems to have a lot of concerns, too.

[19:40:03]

Here's what he said, Vladimir.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We'd much rather have them not need Tomahawks, would much rather have the war be over. They're a very dangerous weapon and it could mean big, you know, escalation. It could mean a lot of bad things can happen. We want Tomahawks also. We don't want to be giving away things that we need to protect our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: You know, it was interesting, Vladimir, of all the things he said there, one of them stood out to me the most, and that was, and it could mean big, you know, escalation, which was the same fear that was put in the West and why it took so long to send other weapons, including fighters, to Ukraine.

So, do you think this is all a result of what Putin said on the call?

KARA-MURZA: Well, there's one phrase there that you just played with. President Trump said, we want this war to be over. Theres nothing more that I would want to. And, you know, all normal civilized people.

But the fact is that this war will only be over once Vladimir Putin is out of power. This man has been in the Kremlin. This man has ruled over Russia for 25 years. And for the entirety of this time, he has killed. He has continued killing people both inside of our countries, killed his main political opponents, Boris Nemtsov and Alexei Navalny. He's imprisoning thousands upon thousands of our own Russian citizens for speaking the truth, for speaking out against this war. It is a sobering fact that today's Russia under Putin holds more

political prisoners than the whole of the Soviet Union. That's 15 present day countries put together did in the mid-1980s. And of course, this is a regime in the Kremlin that has waged one war after another, crossing over into other countries and killing people there in the republic of Georgia, in Syria, in Ukraine, the first time in 2014, in Ukraine, again since February 2022, the largest military conflict in Europe since World War II.

For as long as Putin remains in power, this is not going to change. The only thing that will bring peace and security to Ukraine, the only thing that will bring peace and security to Europe is political change in Russia, is democracy in Russia. Only Russia that will respect the rights and freedoms of its own people will also respect the norms of international law.

It is, of course, for us Russian citizens to achieve that change. But it is important for the free world to stand in solidarity with all those people in Russia who want to see a different future for our country and what we are seeing instead from the current American administration is essentially supporting Putin, really legitimizing Putin on the world stage, giving him, you know, this, this aura that he does not deserve.

And with this coming meeting in Budapest, this is exactly what Donald Trump is giving Vladimir Putin once again. It's a massive, undeserved gift that the Kremlin dictator is yet again about to receive from Washington, D.C.

BURNETT: All right, Vladimir, thank you very much. I am grateful for your time.

And next, Trump's handpicked fed governor raising eyebrows when asked how the Fed will make interest rate decisions if the government is still shut down, shut down had to be corrected. Wait till you see this.

Plus, breaking news. Trump ordering disgraced former Congressman George Santos to be released from prison immediately.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:47:23]

BURNETT: All right, look at these lines. This is the breaking news and it's happening in faraway places. Okay. This is in Sydney, Australia and Singapore.

And what do all these people have in common? They are all waiting to buy gold. I mean, that's really stunning. They're waiting to buy gold, those bullions.

I mean, gold has been surging. In fact, it hit a record high of nearly $4,400 per ounce at one point this morning. Now, when you think about gold, it's where people put their money in times of crisis, right? When they're worried that that it's the only safe place to go. So, when you actually think about it in that context, it makes sense

that the last time gold surged this much was back in 1979, when you were about to face massive inflation, terrible economic growth recessions, right? Gold surged ahead of that. It sort of was the canary in the coal mine.

And it raises a question of whether what were seeing now is a sign of catastrophe to come or not. And OUTFRONT now are two people that you know well from our show, longtime New York Stock Exchange, Peter Tuchman, Einstein, and Jim Bianco, economic analyst and president of Bianco Research.

Okay, I'm really grateful to both of you. And I've been watching this on and off during the year. There'll be sudden coverage of gold.

But, Jim, what I'm seeing right now, these images, I wake up in the middle of the night and I see these gold lines. It's not a good time, you know, you wake up in the night, you're not sleeping. You know, you kind of feel a little lonely.

And you're like, my God, people are lining up for gold. This is bad.

Jim, what is happening right now with gold?

JIM BIANCO, ECONOMIC ANALYST; BIANCO RESEARCH PRESIDENT: Well, gold has always been the safe haven asset, right? If you're worried that there's going to be inflation or deflation or financial crisis or political crisis, where do you hide? Well, the best case you've got is probably gold, or if you're a little more aggressive, crypto.

And you've seen gold really surging. Now for the year it's up, you know, over 60 percent. As a matter of fact, which is stunning to a lot of people. It's now outperformed the stock market for the last 20 years if you've been holding gold.

And I think that a lot of people are buying it in some respects, there's three types of buyers. There's Asian central banks by China that is buying it because they don't trust the U.S. and they're trying to put their money into something other than U.S. dollars. And then there's foreign investors that are looking at the political crisis in France. And some of the other places that we've seen, and they're hiding in it, and then there's speculators. The price is going up and they're just chasing an uptrend on it.

So, the cocktail of the three of them has produced an explosive rally in gold.

BURNETT: An explosive rally. And, Peter, also an explosive rally in the sense that those lines. Right. We have seen regular people, retail investors as we call them, piling into stocks like we've never seen before, piling into gold.

[19:50:06]

You know, traditionally when you see regular people not like you because you're on the stock, regular people like me getting in, that's a bad sign. That's a sign that the smart people are leaving, and all the regular people are getting in are going to get burned. Is that what this is? Or do you think it keeps going up?

PETER TUCHMAN, TRADER AT THE NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE: No, I think I'm kind of a contrarian on it. I think it's -- I think it's a different story. I think everybody is trying to -- look, they're buying everything, right? Crypto is one. One initially thought that crypto would be a hedge against the market. It has never been. It trades with the market. Okay?

And gold obviously, yes. It's been the hedge against the stock market. But that suddenly that was like a dislocation right. It's like sometimes the market trades with the economy and sometimes it doesn't. I think people are just rushing towards an immediate return on investment.

It's almost like an adrenaline rush in a way. Right. And then it's sort of fueling itself. Think about this, too. Ever since COVID, we've got 50 million plus new retail traders, right? Speculators, he may call them, but I call them traders who are always looking for something alternative.

And they're watching things that are going to give them a quick run, whether they're buying the ETFs, the GLD or any other number of things they're trying to get exposure to that. And I think there are lots of different -- lots of different players in the game.

BURNETT: It is, though, those seeing those lines, I mean, it is something it is different. It is not something we're used to seeing. Just to bring out the whiteboard here, Jim. Gold, since Trump took office, you were talking about it year to date, which is incredible.

You were also talking about it over the past 20 years. It's now outperformed stocks, which is pretty incredible because a lot of people who bought gold, you know, years ago, people mocked them, called them silly gold bugs. And now they're proven to be right.

Okay. Gold up 54 percent since Trump took office. I tried to dry my gold bar first because I'm not very good with them -- with, you know, 3D. Okay. And the dollar since Trump took office is down 10 percent.

Okay, down 10 percent. I just have to say Jim Bianco, 10 percent for a drop for the dollar is a really big deal. And that should make every American concerned. How serious is that drop?

BIANCO: I'd say it's somewhat. Part of that drop. Maybe half of it was after liberation day when he announced the tariffs in April. The dollar plunged. It then stabilized, but at a lower level. And what's been happening lately is interest rates have been falling. So, what causes a currency like the dollar versus the euro or the Canadian dollar to go up or down? Is relative interest rates. Our interest rates are going down.

Our Fed is cutting interest rates. And they're talking about more cuts. The European Central Bank to use one looks like they're done cutting interest rates. So, if our -- if our interest rates are falling and those aren't our currency should adjust lower.

So, first, we plunged it. And now it's kind of moving down with interest rates. The interest rate part isn't as concerning as the plunge was in April following liberation day, which we never recovered from in the first place.

BURNETT: Which is such important context. So, Peter, your bottom line is when you see those lines of people around the world, from Sydney to Singapore and people getting gold, do you think that they might be -- they might be the winners here.

TUCHMAN: You know, there's a part of me that I think. So -- I mean, I watch the charts, and the charts look like they're strong. Every pullback has been just a buying opportunity. Once again just like the stock market. And the stock market is trading at record highs kind of with irrational enthusiasm as well.

I think there are a number of just a number of different players. We're not seeing those lines. You know, in the U.S. but you know, as far as the dollar goes, to think about what Mr. Trump is doing with all these coins, his relationship to bitcoin, the relationship with sovereign wealth funds and the Saudis and all that thing. And he's coming out with a USD linked gotcha, USD linked coin.

You know, I think people are fearful of the dollar. And that's one of the other parts of that. And it, obviously, I agree with Jim that it goes down relative to interest rates. We're in an interest rate lowering cycle right now.

And that's a big thing. But I think there are a lot of different reasons why gold's going up. But to me it feels like it's in a surge. It doesn't feel like it's coming in.

BURNETT: All right. Well, we'll see what happens and where those lines are next.

Thanks so much to both of you, Jim and Peter. And next breaking news. Trump ordering George Santos be released from prison.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:57:16]

BURNETT: Breaking news. Disgraced former congressman and so-called rogue George Santos is a free man. Tonight, President Trump commuted his sentence in just the past hour, announcing it on his own social media site, saying George Santos was somewhat of a rogue. But there are many rogues throughout our country that aren't forced to serve seven years in prison.

Good luck, George. Have a great life.

Santos had been kicked out of Congress and then sentenced to seven years for fraud and identity theft. After admitting last year to deceiving donors. And more breaking news this hour. Two people we can report are now in military custody tonight after a U.S. strike on a suspected drug smuggling boat. This is the sixth strike targeting suspected drug traffickers in waters off the coast of Venezuela.

Tonight, President Trump sending a message to the Venezuelan president and our Patrick Oppmann is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: He has offered everything. He's offered everything. You're right. You know why? Because he doesn't want to fuck around with the United States.

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Trump claiming his Venezuelan counterpart may be ready to strike a deal after the sixth U.S. strike targeting alleged drug trafficking boats in the Caribbean. As numerous U.S. navy destroyers and aircraft patrol off the country's coast. Trump also threatening strikes on land.

TRUMP: We have a lot of drugs coming in from Venezuela, and a lot of Venezuelan drugs come in through the sea, so you get to see that, but we're going to stop them by land also.

OPPMANN (voice-over): Trump publicly revealing he authorized the CIA to carry out operations inside Venezuela. He says to stop the flow of drugs and migrants.

REPORTER: Does the CIA have authority to take out Maduro?

TRUMP: Oh, I don't want to answer a question like that.

NICOLAS MADURO, VENEZUELAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Never before had any previous government since the CIA has existed publicly said that it was sending the CIA to kill, to overthrow and to destroy countries.

OPPMANN (voice-over): Maduro, who faces a U.S. federal indictment on drug trafficking charges, which he denies, and a $50 million bounty for his capture, is accusing Trump of trying to topple his regime and is responding with both a military buildup and a propaganda campaign, calling the U.S. a Nazi empire with supremacist ideologies.

Maduro is digging in and has implored the Venezuelan people to join militias to fight against any U.S. intervention. Venezuelan state TV, even showing videos of some of the training, which includes calisthenics and the basics of handling firearms. Thousands have reportedly heeded his call, but many appear to be senior citizens or raw recruits with little to no military experience.

MADURO: Our mobilization will be permanent and never stop.

OPPMANN (voice-over): Maduro posting this video to Instagram today with a message. We continue completing all the necessary preparations, reaching the optimal state for the integral defense of the homeland.

Maduro, even trying in broken English to send a message directly to the American people.

MADURO: No, not war. Just peace. OPPMANN (voice-over): Patrick Oppmann, CNN, Panama City, Panama.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT: And thanks so much for joining us on this Friday.

"AC360" begins now.