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Erin Burnett Outfront
Epstein Email Refers To Trump As The "Dog That Hasn't Barked"; Soon: Vote To End Shutdown; Where Is Putin's Top Diplomat? Aired 7-8p ET
Aired November 12, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:29]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Breaking news, Trump now pressuring his own party not to vote to release the Epstein files, after the House releases a trove of emails, including one from Jeffrey Epstein that suggests Trump knew a lot more than he let on. That and more emails to tell you about this hour.
Plus, more breaking news. The House about to vote to end the longest shutdown in U.S. history, a razor thin margin. Will the government open again tonight?
And, where is Vladimir Putin's top diplomat, Sergey Lavrov? He has not been seen next to Putin in weeks after rumors swirl about a major rift. We have a special report live from Moscow tonight.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
(MUSIC)
BURNETT: And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
And OUTFRONT tonight, we begin with breaking news. Trump's last-minute crisis push to hide the Epstein files has failed. The president of the United States mounting a last-minute campaign to try to turn Republicans who had signed on to release the Epstein files.
But they defied him. And tonight, the motion moves forward to a full House vote, something Speaker Johnson had delayed for nearly two months. Delayed this Epstein vote by nearly two months by refusing to swear in the newest member of Congress, Adelita Grijalva. And here's why from the Republican who is leading the charge to release the Epstein files.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): I've already had a couple Republicans tell my office privately that they're going to vote for it, and I think that could snowball.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Snowball. He's talking about the full vote that tonight's move makes a reality, that that vote is going to happen. He's talking about the full release of about 300 gigabytes of never-before-seen files about Jeffrey Epstein.
And this comes as the Huse Oversight Committee today released a trove of explosive Epstein documents. Now, these new documents that we have show that Jeffrey Epstein was talking about President Trump multiple times in emails, despite Trump repeatedly denying he was in the Epstein files. Of course, we've long known that they were incredibly close friends, but Trump had denied he was in the files, even after Attorney General Pam Bondi told Trump he was in the files, something again because of their friendship, he surely knew himself already, he continued to deny it.
(BEGI VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Did she tell you at all that your name appeared in the file?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, no.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, she had and today, Attorney General Pam Bondi was seen leaving the White House after a meeting with the FBI director, other top officials and Republican Congresswoman Lauren Boebert in the Situation Room.
Why Lauren Boebert called to the Situation Room?
Well, because she is one of four Republicans in the House who signed on this this petition today to release the full Epstein files. And Trump also played phone tag today with another one of the four Republican, Congresswoman Nancy Mace throughout the day.
The reason is that Mace and Boebert's votes are crucial, as was the vote of Adelita Grijalva. She was actually the deciding vote on releasing the files. So, you know, being closed for two months meant they didn't have the votes. Not until she was sworn in. In fact, Epstein survivors were actually there in attendance for Congresswoman Grijalva swearing in because of how important she is to the Epstein files.
But what the House has now, all of this new information that were getting tonight, and its new and important, it's important to mention it is only a minuscule fraction of what we are now one step closer to actually seeing. But in that minuscule fraction are important new details. And our reporters are still going through these new emails and documents that we have.
But we know that they include exchanges like this one, Epstein emails, now convicted accomplice Ghislaine Maxwell in part, I want you to realize that the dog that hasn't barked is Trump, redacted, spent hours at my House with him. He has never once been mentioned. Maxwell responds, I have been thinking about that.
And in June 2019, after Trump made a state visit to the United Kingdom, where he was welcomed by none other than the former Prince Andrew, Epstein wrote to Trump's former White House strategist Steve Bannon, quote, "Prince Andrew and Trump today, too funny." Recall Prince Andrews accuser came out of Mar-a-Lago.
To which Bannon replied, "Can't believe nobody is making that connective tissue."
Now, Trump, of course, has not been accused of any wrongdoing in connection with Epstein's crimes, but the president responded on social media today, and I quote, "The Democrats are trying to bring up the Jeffrey Epstein hoax again because they will do anything at all to deflect on how badly they've done on the shutdown and so many other subjects."
[19:05:08]
Of course, as always, when he calls it a hoax, it is important to point out that raping underage girls and being a registered sex offender for pedophilia is not a hoax.
And Jeff Zeleny is OUTFRONT at the White House to begin our coverage tonight.
Jeff, what more are you learning about this extraordinary pressure campaign that the White House is mounting on Republicans voting to release the Epstein files? They're not really even trying to keep it secret at this point.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, the White House actually sought to explain this away as transparency that they were briefing a member of Congress. That, of course, is Lauren Boebert, Republican of Colorado, as you mentioned, Erin.
But this was no ordinary briefing. We have never seen anything the likes of which rolled out like this. The attorney general of the United States, Pam Bondi, the deputy attorney general, Todd Blanche, who, of course, was the one who questioned Ghislaine Maxwell, a couple of times a few months ago, he was on hand. The FBI director was on hand, a few other aides as well, and trying to pressure the congresswoman to not sign that discharge petition to take her name off of it.
But that is only the beginning of this White House pressure campaign for the next week. Now, Speaker Johnson has announced that there will be a vote of the full house next week to release the files, calling on the Department of Justice to release the files. That will not be the end of the story. Of course, the Senate would also have to vote, and that is a tall order.
However, the number of Republicans who would decide to vote for this is very concerning to this White House. You heard Thomas Massie there, the congressman from Kentucky who is leading the charge. He said there could be a groundswell. That is what the White House is hoping to avoid here.
So, for all of the, you know, other issues going on with the government shutdown likely to end this evening, so many other challenges on the presidents plate here at the White House, there was an all-out scramble today to try and stop this from going forward. But now that there is going to be a vote next week, this pressure campaign, I'm told, is going to keep up. They're trying to get other Republicans to not sign on to this.
But, Erin, that will be -- a vote next week will be very significant because of course, people have their own careers to think about here. And the Epstein files cuts broadly across both parties -- Erin.
BURNETT: It certainly does. Certainly, there's some basic morality if nothing else.
Jeff Zeleny, thank you very much.
OUTFRONT now, Democratic Congressman James Walkinshaw, he sits on the House Oversight Committee, where, of course, those emails that we saw came from today and the White House said, Congressman, of those emails, quote, prove absolutely nothing other than the fact that President Trump did nothing wrong.
You've had a chance to go through them. I know they are a tiny fraction of what we don't know, right? That's still -- that's still at the FBI. But nonetheless, they are still a lot of documents.
Do they -- do you believe that they prove something else here?
REP. JAMES WALKINSHAW (D-VA): Well, we don't know. But I think if you look at President Trump's behavior today, the way that he is absolutely panicking and desperately trying to get Republicans to take their name off the discharge petition to prevent a vote, he certainly seems like someone who's guilty of something. And that's why we need to see all of the files, have full transparency, and let the American people decide.
BURNETT: So, I want to read again, one of the exchanges that the committee released today, and a bit more of it, this was an email that Epstein sent to Ghislaine Maxwell in 2011.
He writes, "I want you to realize that the dog that has embarked is Trump, redacted, spent hours at my house with him. He has never once been mentioned, police chief, et cetera. I'm 75 percent there." To which Maxwell responded, "I have been thinking about that."
Now for anyone watching, they want to know what is that redacted name? And just to be clear, we know in the broader Epstein files there are many, many, many women, hundreds of women mentioned. But this particular woman in this case, we understand to be Virginia Giuffre from Republicans on your committee, they're saying, that's who it refers to.
She, of course, worked at Mar-a-Lago before working for Epstein. And she has not accused Trump of any wrongdoing. In her book, posthumously published a bit ago, she did not accuse him.
Do you have a full understanding of the context of this email, Congressman?
WALKINSHAW: Well, first, it was disappointing that earlier today Republicans on the committee said that that name was Virginia Giuffre. As oversight Democrats, we're committed to protecting the anonymity of the victims and survivors. So I'm not going to confirm that that's the name that was redacted.
But look, the answer to your question is we don't know. But the other answer is that's why we need to release the files. And as soon as next week, it sounds like, every member of the House of Representatives will have to go on record and decide and vote whether they're going to assist Donald Trump in this cover up.
[19:10:07]
And I hope my Republican colleagues will listen to the survivors that we've heard from and join with us in calling for full transparency.
BURNETT: The new documents came from the Epstein estate, right, to your committee. They came from the Epstein estate. I know you had subpoenaed these documents back in August. You released these today, right? So obviously, this is the middle of November. What's happening behind the scenes on your committee right now?
WALKINSHAW: Well, the documents that were released today were part of a tranche of documents that were received relatively recently. So, the committee hasn't been in possession of these documents for a long time. And a large volume of documents comes in periodically from the estate and staff, Republicans and Democrats go through those documents, and that's the process that's playing out here.
Look, this drip, drip, drip is really bad for Donald Trump. It would make a lot more sense for him to just say, let's release the full files and get it all out there and get it over with. Why doesn't he want to do that? What's in those files that he wants to allow this drip, drip, drip of bad news to continue.
BURNETT: And that, of course, is the is the crucial question. Congressman, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much, obviously, on the Oversight Committee.
And Ryan Goodman and Barry Levine are both with me now.
So, Ryan, you going through these emails and, you know, you've been present for every drip, drip, drip of this, even though the big giant bucket of water, there's been no drips out of that yet. But what we've gotten is still significant that these emails could present real legal challenges for Trump on their own. In what way?
RYAN GOODMAN, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL AT DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE: So, I think the emails are specific evidence that Donald Trump knew what Jeffrey Epstein was up to. So, it is about his knowledge. And I think that's very significant.
One of the emails to Mike Wolff, Epstein says, quote, of course, he referring to Trump, knew about the girls as he asked Ghislaine to stop, end quote. Another one with "The New York Times" reporter. He says, "I can send you photos," quote, "of Donald and girls in bikinis in my kitchen," end quote. And it does seem as though he then sends one to "The New York Times" reporter.
And then what you just referenced is 2011 email to Ghislaine Maxwell saying that Donald Trump spent hours at my house with what seems to be an underage trafficking victim, hours at the Epstein house. That's knowledge.
And then the other --
BURNETT: Right, knowledge, and just to interject for one second here, even if he didn't do anything himself with an underage girl, as Jeffrey Epstein did, and as others we know in these files may have done that, that this, you're saying would show knowledge of what was happening.
GOODMAN: Knowledge of massive crimes, of sexual abuse and potentially trafficking of underage girls. But that's not a crime. So, I think that's for Americans to judge what they think about the morality of somebody who actually knows that's all going on and doesn't do anything to stop it, and is a very close associate of Jeffrey Epstein over that period of time.
The other question is whether or not Donald Trump did anything wrong and crossed a line.
One of the emails suggests that there might be something there, because it's also between Epstein and Michael Wolff, and which Epstein seems to be suggesting that he has with Michael Wolff, explosive material that could, in a certain sense, bring Donald Trump down. December 2015, and Wolff says to him in his private email, quote, I think you should let him hang himself, end quote, that Epstein knows things about Donald Trump, that Donald Trump is not revealing.
We don't know. I mean, that's really the step beyond what's in our current evidence. And the record is a little bit mixed on some of these things, so that I think we have to have more information that does come out to understand what the broader context is of this.
BURNETT: So, Barry, a lot of emails released today, and as I said, our reporters are still going through these. One of them that I know stood out to you is one that I briefly mentioned here, referring to Trump as the, quote, dog that hasn't barked. What about that one?
BARRY LEVINE, AUTHOR, "THE SPIDER": Well, Erin, to me -- this is maybe the most significant development in this story that we have actually seen in many, many years. Now, of course, this email was in 2011. The context for this. Of course, this was a few weeks after Virginia Giuffre gave an interview to the reporter for the "London Sunday Mail," in which she never made any accusations against Donald Trump.
BURNETT: Right.
LEVINE: I, in fact, looked over the notes of that reporter. She graciously provided them to me when I was working on my book. There was no references to any wrongdoing by Donald Trump.
However, a few weeks after that story broke where she made the allegations against Prince Andrew, Jeffrey Epstein was emailing Ghislaine Maxwell and specifically references spent hours with. And to me, that's extremely troubling. And what capacity does that mean? Jeffrey Epstein is dead. Virginia sadly has, as we know, has passed on.
Ghislaine Maxwell is the only one of the three who is still alive.
[19:15:01]
And to me, this shows tonight that the interview she gave to Todd Blanche, there's serious questions about that because she said there was no references at all in that interview to any type of wrongdoing involving Donald Trump. So, we need to -- she needs to sit down again and explain the, quote, where she said, I have been thinking about that. Those six words, what was she thinking about?
BURNETT: What was she --
(CROSSTALK)
LEVINE: Exactly.
BURNETT: Well, the entire purpose, it appears, of her interview, her extended interview with the Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche was to exculpate Donald Trump. She repeatedly Ryan told Todd Blanche that he recorded this that, that Trump never did anything wrong. And that's what they put out. All those parts of it.
I mean, here's part of what she said.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
GHISLAINE MAXWELL, JEFFREY EPSTEIN ACCOMPLICE: I don't recall ever seeing him in his house. For instance, I actually never saw the president in any type of massage setting. I never witnessed the president in any inappropriate setting in any way. The president was never inappropriate with anybody. In the times that I was with him, he was a gentleman in all respects.
TODD BLANCHE, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: And did you ever hear Mr. Epstein or anybody say that President Trump had done anything inappropriate with masseuse or with anybody in your world?
MAXWELL: Absolutely never, in any context.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: Ryan, just to just to be clear, because as she's saying, never in the house the email that she exchanged, the dog that doesn't bark email with Epstein, he refers to, redacted, Virginia Giuffre, spent hours at my house with him. Epstein says that to her. To which she responds, I've been thinking about that.
That directly contradicts what she told Blanche.
GOODMAN: It directly contradicts what she told Blanche. And I think a huge question, a huge question tonight is why Todd Blanche didn't press back on that. Did he go into that interview blind, which seems that would be a dereliction of his responsibilities to do that? Or did he go in there -- and he knows the file. I mean, these are explosive.
And if indeed what we know from the Senate judiciary side, they scanned the files for any reference to Donald Trump. So, he would go in there knowing that this would come out, he would have this in his mind. And then to not press back on her to say, what do you mean you never saw him at the House? You have an email exchange referring to him spending hours at the house with one of the victims.
That, to me, smacks of a bit of a cover up on the part of the deputy attorney general of the United States.
BURNETT: Wow.
GOODMAN: I don't have a better explanation for it. I'd like a better explanation for it. But what he's doing in that interview is extraordinary now that we know what's actually part of the record.
BURNETT: Right. I mean, that is just blatant. I just literally sat there and I'm thumbing through to pull up the email. I mean, it's direct contradiction.
Barry, she goes on in that interview to say she always liked Trump. He was very kind and quote, "I admire his extraordinary achievement in becoming the president."
LEVINE: Yeah.
BURNETT: Perhaps the most blatant sycophancy one has ever seen in trying to get a commutation or a pardon. Do the email change -- to the emails that we're getting today change her chances?
LEVINE: Well, I think two things are clear from the emails, and one is that the now the public scrutiny about these emails, and exactly what was President Trump's actual conduct, what did he know of Jeffrey Epstein? Did he, you know, take part in any of that conduct? This is on the minds of Americans tonight, and I think it's going to be a lot more difficult than when we sat here two nights ago and talked about the fact that she had requested clemency. It's going to make it much more difficult with this giant spotlight on this story tonight.
And the second thing that's most clear is we need to see those files. We need to see the, the -- all the context. Again, these are -- these are 20,000 pages or I'm sorry, 20,000 emails that the state released. There's more than 100,000 pages of documents in those files that can certainly clear up a lot of what we're seeing tonight. And not to mention that we're seeing new names that are coming out through these emails.
So, this is a massive story that needs unraveling. And I hope that the oversight committee continues to, you know, peck away at this. BURNETT: All right. Thank you both very much.
And next, more breaking news. We have some more emails from Epstein about Trump. We're going to show those to you. As I said, our reporters are going through it. So we're going to bring the latest to you, as Epstein survivor Danielle Bensky, who has been pleading for more transparency from the White House, joins us next.
And more breaking news this hour. We are moments away from the final vote to end the longest shutdown in American history. The margin is going to be razor thin. Will there be a last-minute surprise?
And the man who has spent decades as Putin's right-hand man, his face to the world, Sergey Lavrov, has not been seen next to Putin in weeks. So tonight, CNN went directly to the Kremlin to investigate why. And Fred Pleitgen has an exclusive.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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BURNETT: All right, breaking news. We have some more new Epstein emails to tell you about as our team is combing through the thousands of pages of documents from Epstein's estate, including more emails where Epstein mentions Trump.
MJ Lee is OUTFRONT.
And, MJ, what are you seeing now?
MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL ENTERPRISE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, tens of thousands of documents, Erin, where there are multiple instances of Epstein discussing Donald Trump.
Let me just walk through a couple of examples. Here is an email that Epstein wrote in August of 2018 to Kathy Ruemmler. She was a former White House counsel to President Barack Obama, and he writes, "I know how dirty Donald is. My guess is that non-lawyers, New York business people have no idea what it means to have your fixer flip."
Trump's former fixer, Michael Cohen, is who they are talking about here, who had just pled guilty at the time to federal campaign finance crimes. And the two appear to be talking about the potential political implications of the fact that Cohen had just pled guilty.
[19:25:04]
Now, we're going to jump back to 2015, where Epstein is corresponding with a "New York Times" reporter. And Epstein says in these emails that he could produce photos of Donald and girls in bikinis in my kitchen. And later in that exchange, Epstein claims that he and Trump had dated the same woman back in the 1990s, saying, my 20-year-old girlfriend in 1993 that after two years I gave to Donald.
And, Erin, this isn't the first known example of Epstein joking about this kind of situation. You will recall that in the famous 50th birthday book that was created for Epstein, he had joked that he had sold a fully depreciated woman to Donald Trump.
Now, we're going to go to another exchange with Kathy Ruemmler again in 2017, where Ruemmler says Trump is so gross, and Epstein responds, "Worse in real life and up close."
And then just a few last examples of Epstein speaking about Trump basically, in denigrating and critical ways. In 2018, for example, he is speaking with treasury secretary, former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers, and he says Trump is borderline insane.
In 2017, again with "The New York Times" reporter, he says Donald Trump is F-ing crazy. I told you that. This was in the context of them discussing the so-called Muslim ban that Trump had just signed after getting into office.
And then lastly, Erin, in 2018, Epstein appeared to muse to a "New York Times" reporter maybe Donald Trump has early dementia.
And I just want to stress, Erin, you know, were of course, being extraordinarily careful to stress what we don't know as were going through these documents. There's a lot of exchanges here where the context isn't clear. We don't know exactly what Epstein is talking about, but what you can see and even just a few of these examples that I just showed, is that Epstein at times seemed to sort of revel in the knowledge that he did have about Donald Trump. And certainly, he seemed to be watching the political rise in the decisions that Donald Trump was making way back in the day when these emails were written pretty closely.
BURNETT: Yeah, absolutely. MJ Lee, thank you so much. Who has been combing through those documents.
And of course, just important to note, you know, during much of this time frame, as we have talked to so many people, there was a time and that time was over many years when Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein were incredibly close friends.
OUTFRONT now, Danielle Bensky, she is an Epstein survivor who is calling for the Trump administration to release the Epstein files.
And I know you spoke out at the Capitol, along with others, about Epstein in 2004. At that time, Danielle was 17 years old. She said she was recruited to give Epstein a massage at his townhouse on the upper east side.
At the time, she was struggling, she was desperate to make ends meet. She was an aspiring ballerina. Her mother had just been diagnosed with a brain tumor. She was trying to save her mother, and Epstein told her. She says that he would help her mom if she brought him more girls.
And, Danielle, I am grateful for the opportunity to be with you again.
DANIELLE BENSKY, JEFFREY EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: Thank you for having me.
BURNETT: So, I want to get your reaction to what we're finding today. This tiny percentage of the total, but nonetheless new and stunning new revelations that we are getting in these emails involving Jeffrey Epstein, where he describes Trump in one as the dog that hasn't barked in an email to Ghislaine Maxwell, where they're referring to, apparently, Virginia Giuffre and Trump spending hours together at Jeffrey Epstein's home.
We know that about it. We don't know the full context beyond that. But what was your reaction when you saw that and some of these other emails today?
BENSKY: I think the emails really speak for themselves. You know, you read it and you have a very visceral reaction to them. But I do think they just speak for themselves.
And I think survivors have been very clear and consistent about our messaging that anyone who performs harm or anybody that that has done any wrongdoing or has harmed people should face accountability. They should be brought to justice.
And I think that survivors are holding strong to that sentiment. And I think that the only way we're ever going to be able to do that is by releasing all of the files from the government.
BURNETT: Right, all of the files, to see the names. And obviously, to the extent that victims want their names out there, we know that there are hundreds of victims' names in there. There are also many men in there who participated, who knew. And they should be held to account.
BENSKY: Absolutely.
BURNETT: So, we are learning that there was a major pressure campaign by the White House today. Now, we know there had been one for months. Trump said that anybody who would vote to release the files for that transparency, it's a hostile act to this administration.
But today they invited Congresswoman Lauren Boebert to the Situation Room, an unprecedented meeting. The attorney general there, the deputy attorney general there, the head of the FBI, is there to try to get her to pull her signature from the petition today that moves this to a full vote on the House floor. What does it say to you that that something like this would happen in the White House, in the Situation Room?
[19:30:05]
BENSKY: It definitely feels frustrating. But I think with everything that came to light today, you know, we are starting to see more information. I feel like we're starting to iris in, and I do think that, you know, first of all, I want to say survivors and myself included, are incredibly grateful to the Republican women, particularly Nancy Mace and Lauren Boebert, Marjorie Taylor Greene. And, of -- and, of course, even though he's not a woman, Thomas Massie.
BURNETT: Yeah. BENSKY: You know, I think this this, you know, we see so much media
attention on this because Epstein was such a political figure or a figure of power. And there's been so much attention on our stories, but abuse happens all the time to women everywhere. And violence, you know, happens consistently to women.
So, I think that there's just such a broader message that for those women, particularly Marjorie Taylor Greene, Boebert and Mace, I think they are really standing up for women everywhere, and they are saying they're throwing down the gauntlet of what is acceptable in society. So, I just really appreciate that.
BURNETT: And they're doing it under incredible pressure.
BENSKY: Absolutely.
BURNETT: Right? Hostile act, all of it.
BENSKY: Absolutely.
BURNETT: And I know that you and other survivors that you spoke with talked to them, called their offices today in light of all this and this pressure campaign, can you share anything about those conversations?
BENSKY: Yeah. I mean, basically we just call and leave as many messages as we can for them and just say, thank you so much for doing what you're doing. And I know that it's not easy to stand with survivors, but we appreciate it. And I know when you're in it, you know, even just for some survivors, when you're in it, you feel like you're sort of in this little box and you don't really see the full, the full gamut.
And so, I know so many people have reached out to me separately on media platforms and they have said, you know, thank you so much for doing what you're doing, but it's tenfold for them because they're up against so much pressure. And I know it's so much harder for them to stand up for us. And so, we just really appreciate what they're doing and hope that they will stay the course.
BURNETT: When Speaker Johnson said President Trump is for maximum transparency and he wants everything to come out, even though, of course, he said he's against the release of the files. Trump posted twice today that this is the Jeffrey Epstein hoax.
Now, you've heard him say this many, many times.
BENSKY: So many times.
BURNETT: Okay? And every time he says it, I make the point I made tonight right? About what rape of underage girls is, right? Not a hoax, but, but he keeps using that word. I am curious as to whether you feel anything at this point. Every time that the president of the United States uses that word to describe the abuse that you endured.
BENSKY: I mean, it's a little degrading, for sure. You know, we're real people. And at this point, I just don't know what more you need to show that it is not a hoax. You've had -- you know, there are a thousand victims. We know this I know personally 20 survivors that are out there doing media.
You've heard from a lot of us today. And so, it's like we've all told our stories on a variety of platforms and we didn't know each other going into any of this. And yet our stories are consistent and very similar in a lot of regards. So -- and, you know, we didn't know that until finally we got together and it's like, wow, I'm not alone in this.
So when you see like the sheer volume of survivors and on top of Virginia's book, on top of emails, on top of all of these sort of, I mean, the testimonies that were given, Ghislaine's hearing where survivors were being asked to be cross-examined on, like, literally things that should not like the definition of breast versus chest, like it's -- it is -- we've been under a microscope to such a degree that to now call it a hoax at this point, still, after all of this, I just don't know what else he needs or what else the public needs to understand that this is real.
BURNETT: Well, I think people know it's real. And of course, it is because of you. and I know, as you know, Virginia's brother refers to your survivor sisters and --
BENSKY: Yeah.
BURNETT: -- the sacrifices that you've made to come on and do this. I know it's not easy. You have a life --
BENSKY: Thank you.
BURNETT: A life that's different, you know, and to do this is a huge sacrifice. Thank you so much.
BENSKY: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.
BURNETT: And we have more breaking news next. The House is moments away from voting to end the longest shutdown in American history. It is going to come down to every single vote. Will it actually pass?
And Trump firing a warning shot at his own party about voting to release the Epstein files? One Republican congressman, Warren Davidson, says he is now planning to vote to release the Epstein files. And he is our guest.
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[19:38:56]
BURNETT: Breaking news, the House is about to vote any moment now on a measure to reopen the United States government as soon as tonight, ending the longest shutdown in history. But the vote is going to come down to a razor thin margin.
And Manu Raju is OUTFRONT live on Capitol Hill. Manu, you're talking to absolutely everybody about what's happening
here. I mean, is this a sure thing or are there still possible surprises?
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's a sure thing as it gets in the United States House. And that's the caveat there. It is the United States House. It's an unruly body. There are surprises that could happen at the last minute.
But all signs are pointing that that this bill will pass tonight. And President Trump is prepared to sign it into law tonight, ending this 43-day government shutdown where the consequences have been so dire, growing by the day for the American public.
But finally, hundreds of thousands of federal workers could go back to work. Now, the reason why this is going to be close is because of the Democratic opposition. House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries is urging his members to fall in line and vote against this bill.
[19:40:00]
And given the fact that Mike Johnson can only afford to lose two Republican votes on a party line vote, he has virtually no margin for error here, and we expect it to be mostly a party line vote. There is at least one Republican who is likely to vote no. That's Congressman Thomas Massie of Kentucky, who signaled to me earlier that he is likely to vote against this package. But there could be some Democratic defectors as well, including some more moderate members like Jared Golden of Maine, another member in the swing district, Don Davis of North Carolina, told me he was still weighing what to do.
So, given the handful of Democratic defectors and the likelihood that Mike Johnson will keep his party mostly in line, we do expect this to get over the finish line. But Democrats are furious. This deal that was cut in the Senate, Erin, because it does not include an extension of those expiring subsidies under the Affordable Care Act, which started this government shutdown fight to begin with. And that's what's going to lead to another fight down the road, because this will only open the government, most of the government, until January 30th -- Erin.
BURNETT: Right, right. And you imagine after 43 days that I mean, I understand things are complicated, but on that very basic level, they're going to -- they didn't get the one thing that they shut the government down for. That is -- that is got to be hard for many to stomach.
Manu, thank you very much.
I want to go OUTFRONT now to Republican Congressman Warren Davidson of Ohio.
So, Congressman, you hear about this razor thin margin and Manu walking through some of the votes here. He said it appears to be a sure thing as close as that can be in an unruly body like the U.S. House. Where are you? Are you going to vote for this?
REP. WARREN DAVIDSON (R-OH): Yeah. I'll support it, just as I did in September. And look, you know, you get from his terminology, he called people who are Democrats in the House who would vote for this Democrat defectors. So that says you've got kind of a left wing cause here. What causes it you're defending.
And it's not just one issue. The reality is they put $1.5 trillion worth of demands, and they held the government hostage for six weeks now. And they boasted about this as leverage. They acknowledged that there was suffering. And the Democrat whip, Katherine Clark, said that, yeah, but this increases our leverage. So that's the shameful thing that's gone on here.
So, it's finally time to get the government open. And the good news is we're going to fully fund parts of the government that are truly bipartisan, like supporting our veterans.
BURNETT: And I will just say, of course, Republicans control the House, the Senate and the White House. In that context, is the government going to shut down again in January when this comes up? I mean, is this literally whatever, eight-week reprieve?
DAVIDSON: Well, I hope that the house has taken this opportunity that by Christmas we can pass all the appropriations bills, the remaining nine appropriations bills. Hopefully, we can get those out of the House and put the pressure on the Senate for the entire month of January. And I think Speaker Johnson did a great job uniting our party, saying, look, we've already made the compromise. The C.R. was the sort of truce to say, let's get the government funded while we're having the debate on appropriations. And then he kept the pressure on the Senate. So, I think that was well done.
BURNETT: You know, your colleague, Congressman Massie, as Manu indicated, will not vote for this. But one thing that he has been for is full transparency on the Epstein files. He's willing to lose his career over that. And I wanted to ask you about that.
The Epstein emails, of course, mentioning President Trump come out of the House Oversight Committee are now public. That's a small fraction of the total Epstein files. Right? It's a really tiny fraction, Congressman, as you're aware, and Speaker Johnson says the House is going to vote now on whether to release the Epstein files, going to vote next week. It had been maybe in December, but its going to happen now, next week.
And I know that you have been clear and correct me if I'm wrong, that you are going to release vote to release the full Epstein files. In that context. Congressman, I want to ask you about something Trump posted today. It was a warning to Republicans who plan to do what you do to vote yes on that release, he said the Democrats are trying to bring up the Jeffrey Epstein hoax again, because they'll do anything at all to deflect on how badly they've done on the shutdown and so many other subjects. Only a very bad or stupid Republican would fall into that trap. So,
Congressman, an odd question to ask you in a professional interview like this, but I guess I have to do it. Are you a very bad or stupid Republican?
DAVIDSON: Well, look, you want to change the subject from the Democrat shutdown, and let's not bury the lead here. Democrats kept the government shut down for six weeks over status quo funding. There wasn't like Republicans loaded this bill up with Republican policy agendas. We have our agenda, and we certainly want to do that. But we wanted to have the appropriations debate with the government open.
And so, you know, that's the story tonight. And there will be a story about the Epstein files --
BURNETT: Okay.
DAVIDSON: -- in seven legislative days.
BURNETT: Well, I disagree with you. I will disagree with you. And just since you're coming on my program, I would like an answer, if I could, to the question. Right. Which is you said if I'm not -- if I'm not mistaken, that you're going to vote for full release of the Epstein files, Trump says only a very bad or stupid Republican would fall into that trap.
DAVIDSON: Well, look, the Epstein list at this point is becoming like Schrindler's list, right? It's like it's simultaneously nothing and simultaneously everything. It can't be both.
And that's why Pam Bondi needs to come here and explain herself. That's one of the hearings that we were supposed to have in October, and hopefully that will get rescheduled soon and say, how is it that you can do binders full of documents to selected journalists early in the administration and then, you know, months later, come out and say, well, there's nothing there? How is that?
And when you start digging down into it, a lot of the victims here took settlements and they signed non-disclosure agreements, and they didn't want to go to trial. They didn't want to go through the burden of the trial. And so how do you respect their rights as victims and yet bring justice? And I think that's the challenge to the Justice Department is doing.
I haven't signed the discharge petition because I do support the administration doing everything they can, but they're going to lose this fight. They've already lost it. On Massie's discharge petition. And I think that was unnecessary. They're working to disclose what they can.
But the point is, we don't need another thing for Congress just to fuel outrage on. The number one question I think I've gotten since being a member of Congress is when is somebody going to jail? And that's the question
BURNETT: Yes. DAVIDSON: If there are people who are trafficked, then someone was trafficking them. And who are they trafficked to? And if that happened, there should be justice.
BURNETT: And that -- and that. Congressman, I think you are in line with, I believe, the vast majority of Americans and perhaps of your peers as well. Certainly, certainly. I agree with you. I don't know who wouldn't agree with that.
But just to be clear, I know you were clear. You didn't vote for the discharge petition, but you told Manu earlier. So I just want to make sure that I have this correct, that you will vote to release the full Epstein files when the speaker brings that vote to the floor.
DAVIDSON: Yeah. When it comes to the floor, look, you get privileged resolutions. One of the paths to do it is the discharge petition. Those things rarely succeed. This one did.
And so, it comes to the floor. A lot of times you'll use procedural things like motion to table. I don't even think that should be in order. If it's privileged, it deserves an answer. And I think, yeah, okay. Disclose the list.
But that isn't going to satisfy the burden of justice here. If there are people who committed crimes and it looks like there were people who committed crimes, there are clear victims of this. They didn't traffic one another to themselves. Where is the justice?
And that's exactly what the attorney general is supposed to do. That's what U.S. attorneys are supposed to do. But I do find it interesting that when Tim Burchett wanted to say by unanimous consent, we could just do this tonight, Democrats didn't want to support that. And when Joe Biden was president and Merrick Garland was attorney general, Democrats didn't want to do that.
So Democrats are totally posturing here.
BURNETT: Yeah.
DAVIDSON: And that part is exactly where Donald Trump is, right? They're trying to push a hoax yet again, all about trying to make it all about Donald Trump. The files and emails you reference are selectively released, and there's nothing there about president Trump, because if there was, they've used extraordinary measures to go after Donald Trump.
So, I don't think there's anything there on Donald Trump. But I do think there should be justice and there should be charges or an explanation as to why, you know, early in her term as attorney general, Pam Bondi led us to believe there would be something forthcoming. And now, there's nothing.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Congressman Davidson, I appreciate your time. And thank you very much, sir.
DAVIDSON: Thank you. BURNETT: All right. And next, Putin's top diplomat hasn't been seen
with him in public for weeks. What happened? Fred Pleitgen asked the Kremlin, where is Sergey Lavrov? His exclusive interview is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:52:41]
BURNETT: New tonight, Putin's right-hand man has not been seen with him publicly for weeks. Now, he's a no show at a Kremlin meeting. Sergey Lavrov, foreign minister for over two decades, had been side by side with Putin for a political generation. His absence is glaring.
And tonight, CNN goes directly to the Kremlin to investigate what's going on.
Fred Pleitgen is OUTFRONT from Moscow.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Russian leader Vladimir Putin, side by side with Kazakhstan's president at the grand ceremony for the state visit in Moscow. Both delegations lined up, but one figure, notably missing Russia's foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov.
The kremlin trying to bat down. Rumors of a Putin-Lavrov rift in an exclusive interview with CNN.
PLEITGEN: Does the Russian foreign minister still have the trust of the Russian president?
DMITRY PESKOV, KREMLIN SPOKESMAN: Definitely, 100 percent.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): Sergey Lavrov is one of Vladimir Putins closest officials, serving as Russian foreign minister for more than 21 years. But it's been weeks since the two have been publicly seen together. Lavrov, a notable no show at Putin's most recent meeting with his National Security Council, and the foreign minister will not be heading Russia's delegation at the upcoming G20 summit in South Africa.
This week, Moscow, dealing with media reports that Lavrov's hard line approach in a call with U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio, possibly contributed to derailing a planned Trump-Putin summit in Budapest.
Lavrov himself trying to set the record straight.
"We had a polite conversation without any nervous episodes," Lavrov said at a press conference, by and large, reaffirming progress based on the agreements reached in Anchorage and then went off the phone.
As the fighting in Ukraine continues with the Russians claiming accelerating gains in the Donbas region, the Kremlin acknowledges the diplomatic process to end the conflict is stuck, and the cozy relations between U.S. President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin have become more muted.
The total reset of U.S.-Russia relations Moscow has been striving for on hold and sanctions on Russia still in place.
[19:55:04]
PESKOV: We have a very, very brilliant horizons waiting ahead and we're losing time. We're losing money, we're losing profits. This is what we do. And of course, we sincerely hope that President Trump is still willing -- still willing to contribute in political and diplomatic settlement of Ukraine problem.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): At the same time, Moscow rattled by President Trump's remarks saying the U.S. would begin renewed nuclear testing. The Kremlin demanding an explanation warning of the possible consequences of nuclear proliferation.
PLEITGEN: How dangerous do you think this nuclear rhetoric can be?
PESKOV: Well, nuclear rhetoric is always dangerous. It's always dangerous. From one hand, nuclear weapons is very good things for the peacekeeping in terms of mutual deterrence. But from the other hand, it's even dangerous to speak about that. And what, frankly speaking, we prefer not to and not to make statements.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Moscow.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: And next, dazzling waves of color on display tonight in the sky across the United States, just after that stunning display last night. It's incredible. As many as two dozen states could witness it tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight, dazzling waves of color lighting up the sky across the United States. Even right now, it's a rare and powerful geomagnetic storm which is pushing the Northern Lights far south. Forecasters say nearly two dozen states should be able to witness the spectacle tonight, as you can see on the map there.
And just to take a look at the scene in Iowa last night, I mean, it's just incredible to imagine, to look up and to see all the pulsations, the lighting, those lights even reaching Florida and Texas, a massive burst of charged particles launching from the sun, driving all of this, a magnificent and extraordinary moment.
Step outside, if you can, tonight. And of course, be sure to look up.
Thanks for joining us.
"AC360" starts now.
