Return to Transcripts main page

Erin Burnett Outfront

GOP Braces For Mass Defections On Epstein Vote, Trump Dodges Questions; Skepticism, Gasps: Judge Weighs Legality Of Trump-Backed Attorney's Role; Self-Described Socialist Ousts Democratic Incumbent For Seattle Mayor. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired November 13, 2025 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:31]

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:

Breaking news, Republicans breaking with Trump on Epstein. CNN learning a significant number of Republicans are expected to vote to release all the files. Even Trump's MAGA base says just release them, as new emails are shedding light on Epstein and Trump tonight.

Plus, are the DOJ's cases against James Comey and New York A.G. Letitia James about to be tossed? Big development tonight.

And a new mayor-elect. A self-described socialist winning on affordability and fighting Trump and not named Zohran Mamdani.

Let's go OUTFRONT.

(MUSIC)

BURNETT: Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.

And OUTFRONT tonight, we begin with breaking news, a big break. Republicans breaking with Trump on Epstein. House GOP leaders bracing tonight for a significant number of Republican defections. Republicans going to break from Trump and support a bipartisan bill calling for the release of the Jeffrey Epstein files.

Trump not helping his cause here, ignoring questions today about why his name appears in newly released Jeffrey Epstein emails thousands of times.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Sir, any response to the Epstein emails that mention your name?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Silence. But it was thousands of times his name was included in new emails. And those emails, by the way, are only a fraction of the actual still unreleased Epstein files, which all leads to the most basic fundamental question. It is a glaring question why is Trump acting like a person desperately trying to hide something? After all, when Trump didn't have the power to release the Epstein

files, he said he was all for them being made public.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

INTERVIEWER: Would you declassify the Epstein files?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yeah, yeah, I would. I'd be inclined to do the Epstein. I'd have no problem with it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: We've got a big problem with it. He now has the power to do, to follow through. And now instead, he's called the whole situation a hoax again and again and again and again and again. He said that anyone supporting the files' release is engaged in a, quote/unquote, "hostile act" to his administration. And he said that any Republican willing to vote for the files release is dumb and stupid. Why?

It makes absolutely no sense. And we're not the only ones asking these questions. Listen to MAGA stalwart Megyn Kelly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEGYN KELLY, FORMER FOX NEWS HOST: Why didn't Trump just release these? Just release them. Just release them, right? Like now he's in the position of being like singled out as the only one, allegedly, as opposed to one of a slew of names. The Democrats, of course, are going to make a ton of hay over it. And I don't know that there's any "there" there whatsoever, but I can -- I concede that they sound bad. They don't sound good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: And what she's talking about there is just that 20,000 pages of emails, right, that include Trump's name thousands of times. They make it sound like Epstein and Trump were very close for very long time. Now we know there was a period of time that they were essentially best friends. Many have described them that way to us, but even a whole decade after Trump said he dumped Epstein from Mar-a-Lago for being a, quote, creep, these emails were being sent around. A lot of really important people still going to Epstein for advice about Trump.

One example is in June of 2018, weeks before Trump's first big official summit with Putin. Epstein emails a former top European official offering help, writing, quote, I think you might suggest to Putin that Lavrov can get insight on talking to me. Vitaly Churkin used to, but he died.

Now, Churkin had been the longest serving Russian ambassador to the United Nations.

Kristen Holmes is at the White House to begin our coverage tonight.

And, Kristen, something that, you know, months ago, certainly at the beginning of the summer, right when Trump denied that his own DOJ had told him his name was in the Epstein files, a day that he probably didn't think would ever come. House GOP seeming to flee from him. Leaders there bracing for a big number of Republicans to break from Trump vote to release the Epstein files.

How concerned is Trump about this?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the White House is watching it very closely. I mean, what we know right now is that Speaker Johnson today essentially did a reverse course. The White House and the speaker's office have been working together to try and stop this bill from actually being taken up for a vote. Then, all of a sudden, you see Speaker Johnson saying that he's going to expedite it.

[19:05:00]

It's going to be brought to the floor as early -- as early next week.

We are told that President Trump and Speaker Johnson discussed this together, and essentially, it was made clear to the president by both Speaker Johnson as well as several advisers, that this was the inevitable, that this had to move forward, and that there was no reason in stopping it. Just get it over with.

And President Trump seems to have conceded that idea. So, while you're hearing him say these things about people being dumb or going against the wishes of the administration, there is a really real belief here at the White House that this is going to pass through the GOP House.

Now, of course, the big question is what happens then when it lands in the GOP-led Senate? What is the White House going to do? Are they going to take issue with senators? Are they going to personally whip senators?

And I'm told that that decision has not yet been made on what their strategy is going to be once they do believe that this passes through the House and lands in the Senate, because there is also a resignation, an understanding among many White House officials that there's really not much they can do to stop this momentum, that there are senators as well as House members who have said that this is something they want, and it is going to be something that they vote to move forward. The release of these documents.

So, again, the White House is watching all of this very closely. That will then lead to, if it does pass in the Senate, this landing on President Trump's desk. And I'm told that that's not even part of the discussion right now. All the discussion is, what are they going to do in the next steps when this goes through the House, which they believe that it will?

I have talked to a number of his allies, people on the outside who have defended President Trump for years, who support him, who still support him, but a lot of them sound like Megyn Kelly. They have a lot of questions as to why the White House is not getting ahead of this.

BURNETT: All right. HOLMES: One reason, I'm told, is that President Trump himself is dictating all of the response to this, and that is part of the reason that you're seeing it as a much more reactive response, because that is what he wants.

BURNETT: Yeah. Well, and it is, of course, something when people take a step back and say, why -- why would anyone not want to put out the files of a pedophile? And who knew? And who aided and who participated, right? I mean, it's -- people don't want to be on the wrong side of that one. And it's obvious the right side.

Kristen, thank you very much.

As we you know, I think Kristen pointing out the crucial question, right. What will happen if it gets to the Senate and gets to Trump's desk?

Well, Stacey Williams is OUTFRONT now. She is a former "Sports Illustrated" model who dated Epstein in the early 1990s. She was one of the first people to come on this show and make it clear that Epstein and Trump, in your words, Stacey, were, quote/unquote, "best friends" and so many others after you said that, talked about the closeness of their relationship over many years. We heard it again and again from others who knew them after you spoke.

And Stacey also went public in 2024 with accusations that Trump groped her in 1993, in front of Epstein at Trump Tower. Allegations, of course, Trump has denied.

Stacey, I really appreciate your taking the time and coming on tonight. Obviously, the Epstein files are one thing, and they're still under lock and seal. These emails, though, from the Epstein estate that include Trump's name in them thousands of times, have gotten even more GOP members to say it's time for them to jump ship with Trump on this one and vote for the release of the files. Did you ever think you'd see this happen?

STACEY WILLIAMS, FORMER EPSTEIN GIRLFRIEND: That Republicans are supporting the release of the files?

BURNETT: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: Well, we have -- we -- we've had a -- we've had a few, right? You know, I -- I've never understood the sort of the role of legislative officials in protecting pedophiles. I didn't think that was part of the job criteria. So, it's been very confusing to me.

But, if they're -- some of them are finally arriving at some moral clarity, you know, that's a good thing. Transparency is critical. And I was quite shocked to hear the White House say yesterday that they're being fully transparent after dragging a member of Congress there to get her to pull back her vote on releasing the Epstein files. It's condescending to the American people, and it is cruel and damaging to the Epstein survivors.

BURNETT: Yes. And I know you're obviously talking about Lauren Boebert there, who has remained steadfast in her decision to vote for the release of the files.

WILLIAMS: I commend her, I commend her. Yes.

BURNETT: Yeah, under incredible pressure.

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

BURNETT: In the emails that we have. And again, every time I say that, I just want to distinguish that these emails are from the estate. So, they are Epstein files are something, something different. But the emails themselves reveal a lot of information, Stacey. They talk about the close relationship. You know, wingman type relationship that Trump and Epstein had, which you've talked about when you talked about how they were best friends during the time that you knew them.

This is a video I'm showing of NBC -- from NBC that shows Trump and Epstein at a party in Mar-a-Lago. It's all the way back in 1992, an important year for you, Stacey, because that's the year you met Epstein.

[19:10:02]

And what they're doing in that video is watching women on the dance floor. And Trump appears to say to Epstein, she's hot, referring to a woman there, then pointing fingers.

Now, in one of the emails that we have in the context of that video, Epstein says he gave Trump one of his girlfriends. He writes, my 20- year-old girlfriend in 1993 that after two years I gave to Donald. By the way, you met him in 1992.

When you see that, though, in this email in black and white, I, quote/unquote, gave to Donald, what's your reaction?

WILLIAMS: I mean, it screams, about, you know, the mindset of these men, you know, the same two men who did what they did to me when Jeffrey Epstein walked me into Donald Trump's office to be groped by him. Clearly, we are these objects, these trophies. And it's deeply misogynistic. It's horrifying.

BURNETT: You did share a disturbing, disturbing details about that alleged incident in 1993. That's when you said Trump groped you in front of Epstein at Trump Tower, which you just referred to Stacey.

And you say that at the time, Epstein and Trump looked at each other when this happened to you and they smiled and that to you in that moment, it felt like a weird and twisted game. And then you say Trump pursued you afterwards, sending you a postcard with a picture of Palm Beach, saying, Stacey, your home away from home. Love, Donald.

WILLIAMS: Uh-huh.

BURNETT: You know, I mean, what did you mean? Or what did that feel like when you say a weird, twisted game between the two?

WILLIAMS: So, I clearly was delivered there, for the groping. And as I've -- as I've mentioned before, I had shared with Jeffrey Epstein that I was somewhat combative with men in the fashion industry, photographers men even on the streets who are inappropriate. And I would fight back. And Jeffrey also knew that I had a model agents who would reprimand me for standing up to, you know, inappropriate behavior with men.

So, I believe I was walked in there as a bit of a challenge because Donald Trump, you know, was notorious for touching women. And as he did to me in his office and as he shared on the "Access Hollywood" tape, in his own words, what he can get away with, with women.

So, I believed I was walked in there as a challenge. And when I froze and didn't respond you know, I think Jeffrey got very upset about it. He expected a fight. But they were, you know, they were -- they were -- they were very close friends. He was the only friend that Jeffrey spoke -- the only male friend that he spoke about pretty consistently. They had -- they had a very close relationship.

And it's just so maddening to me that Donald Trump ran on, you know, cleaning up the swamp and all this time and energy is being spent on covering up information about the biggest swamp monster who's ever existed.

BURNETT: So, we know that Trump has been personally involved, right, trying to lobby Republicans against voting for the release, right? Lauren Boebert was brought to the -- invited to the Situation Room itself yesterday, for example, right, for that -- for that meeting. And he called Republicans very bad or stupid if they vote to release the files. That was his post yesterday.

Stacey, what do you think about that? What do you think about the lengths he is going to in in full public view to block the release of the files?

WILLIAMS: It's awfully confusing. As I said, you know, he ran on releasing the files, you know? And the White House is claiming that they are fully committed to transparency. But here I am now, when did I come to you guys? First start talking about this. You know, about a year ago?

BURNETT: And here we are. Nothing's changed. These survivors are jumping through hoops, proving themselves. I'm out here jumping through hoops. I'm doing the, you know, the polygraphs and sharing all this information and talking over and over and over and sharing my, you know, my personal story about what they did to me and how close they were.

And what's happening you know, a member of Congress is being dragged up to the White House to be told not to support this vote, to release the truth and be transparent. It's condescending. I mean, I mean, Americans can't possibly be gaslit to this extent. And it is incredibly damaging and gaslighting to these survivors.

BURNETT: Stacey, I appreciate your taking the time and coming back. Thank you.

WILLIAMS: Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

BURNETT: And next, more Republicans breaking from Trump over Epstein this hour.

[19:15:00]

Conservative commentator Ann Coulter just moments ago going after Trump. Will this exodus force Trump's hand?

Plus, is Trump's former personal attorney turned DOJ prosecutor Lindsey Halligan about to be out? A crucial hearing tonight from a judge. We'll have the latest on that.

And a self-described socialist just won the mayor's race in one of America's biggest cities. And the name is not Zohran Mamdani. Katie Wilson will be our guest in her first national interview.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Tonight, anger growing among Republicans over Trump's refusal to allow the release of the Epstein files.

[19:20:01]

Conservative commentator Ann Coulter just posting on social media a moment ago. I quote her, "I remember Trump promising us a wall. I don't remember the stonewall part."

My panel is with me.

Gretchen, I mean, you know, that's -- that's something, right? I mean --

GRETCHEN CARLSON, JOURNALIST: That's a big thing, actually.

BURNETT: Yeah, yeah.

CARLSON: I mean, Ann Coulter has said things before against Trump. But you had other conservatives today also saying release the files. Look, there's going to be another press conference with Epstein survivors on Tuesday. The dam, I think, is going to break. I think we're going to see more Republicans who are going to decide that they're going to vote yes because they're going to start hearing from their constituents about releasing these files.

And the interesting thing to watch will be to see if, in fact, you get to a veto proof vote, because, of course, Trump has the power to --

BURNETT: In the Senate, yeah.

CARLSON: Yes. I mean, if you get to that level where Republicans have enough time to feel the confidence to vote yes, I think the flood of these emails has changed a lot of people's perspective.

BURNETT: And these emails, Barry, as we keep saying, right, they're not the Epstein files. This is separate. It's from the estate. But these emails, they do show a lot of important people corresponding with Epstein years after he had -- was a registered sex offender for abusing underage girls, right? Years after that, they're still coming to him as a sort of Trump whisperer. That's what these emails show.

They show that at one point, certainly the two were very close and that he was still trading on that currency.

BARRY LEVINE, AUTHOR, "THE SPIDER": This was a man who right up to the time the -- of his arrest at Teterboro Airport, he was still abusing women in the Virgin Islands. Women were being -- young girls were being flown to him by fixers there.

And at the same time, he's sending these emails to very, very powerful individuals. Look at Kathy Ruemmler, who had been Obama's White House counsel.

BURNETT: Yeah.

LEVINE: They had very chummy emails right up to 2015 where Epstein is talking with her about Bill Clinton. He's talking about -- he's talking about Donald Trump.

The fact that he was this went on for two decades, how he was able to manage the sex trafficking and the horrible things he did to these girls. And at the same time, fire off emails and conversations with very, very smart and powerful individuals, you know, in government and elsewhere is mind boggling. And it's horrible. He was a diabolical monster.

BURNETT: Arick, several things to ask you, I guess, first, this basic one, as you represent 11 of Epstein's victims, right? And in this moment, these emails may have changed things.

We understand that the president went nuclear after an interview came out with Miranda Devine at "The New York Post" and Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick. Now, why Howard Lutnick? Howard Lutnick happened to live next door to Epstein for years, and at one point, Epstein invites Lutnick and his wife over sort of like neighbors, you know, let's meet. And Lutnick runs a big Wall Street firm.

And Lutnick is so disturbed after this night and the conversation that happens in Epstein talking about massages that he said he would never be in the room with that disgusting person ever again when he left. Okay. And I wanted to play something else Lutnick said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIRANDA DEVINE, THE NEW YORK POST: So how come Bill Gates and all these other people could hang around him and not see what you saw? Or did they see it and ignore it or --

HOWARD LUTNICK, COMMERCE SECRETARY: No, they participated.

DEVINE: Right.

LUTNICK : That's what his M.O. was, you know? Get a massage, get a massage. And what happened in that massage room, I assume was on video.

This guy was the greatest blackmailer ever, blackmailed people. That's how he had money.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Okay, he just came out and said the quiet part out loud. No. They participated. I got to know Bill Gates hasn't been accused of any wrongdoing. And he said, of course, that he -- his relationship with Epstein was an error.

But Lutnick is saying that there's tapes. And then he went on to say, oh, he thinks that as part of that sweetheart deal, Epstein gave the tapes to investigators and that that was part of the deal somehow to cover up for all of these men.

Do you think that there's tapes in all of this and that we'll ever see them?

ARICK FUDALI, ATTORNEY REPRESENTING 11 EPSTEIN ACCUSERS: You know, the trouble with that is that's why we need to see the files. You know, the one thing that all these emails did is they just raised so many more questions and sort of raised the bar on the necessity to see everything.

I think this really puts, you know, Trump's name, you know, to answer your question, you know, there's that weird email about Trump knows about the girls or something along those lines. I'm paraphrasing. Trump is the dog that didn't bark. There's also some --

BURNETT: Right, Trump is the dog that didn't bark. We know a lot about him, essentially.

FUDALI: Exactly. And there's even some emails where he's like proposing blackmail, you know, to other people, to journalists. Like, we could use this against him. I mean, it's so suspicious and it's just really, I think, raises the level of need, not just from the survivors who have been sort of desiring the accountability and the exposure and the closure they deserve. But for the American people, like what is happening here?

Like to take a step back. The president of the United States is now no longer just like not releasing the files. He now appears to be an active campaign to hide the files.

[19:25:00]

Like what is happening here? His names all over them. Like, it's just so baffling what's happening.

BURNETT: Something that by the way he denied after his own Justice Department told him his name was in there. And now we don't even know how many times his name is in the files. But it's thousands of times in these emails.

Arick, which begs the question, do you think if the files are released and that's a big if, which I want to get back to Gretchen on, but if they're released, that they're going to be in full, like, do you have confidence that there isn't stuff happening that absolutely shouldn't happen and wouldn't happen in a normal system in this country, but things aren't normal right now.

FUDALI: You know, I've talked to my clients about this, and the thing that's been so frustrating is for decades, they have been wronged by the Department of Justice, administration after administration, state attorney after district attorney after district attorney. They've never gotten full justice. They've never gotten full accountability.

So, while we're all sort of cautiously optimistic, yeah, maybe we'll get these files. Maybe they'll, you know, Republicans will break and they'll really push and Trump will have no option but, you know, unfortunately, they're not that optimistic. You know, we -- they just continue to be wronged.

Ghislaine Maxwell is in a minimum security, you know, resort. Epstein was allowed to kill himself. They caught him in 2008, and they let him go, basically. I mean, they've never seen true justice. And unfortunately, they're starting to lose hope that they ever will.

CARLSON: But they see that justice in a way, I can say this as a survivor myself, because people believe them. I mean, they at least have that now. They know that people believe them. And, you know, my prediction is that the Department of Justice is going to have to release something before Tuesday, before these survivors get back on the Hill, and they start telling their stories.

BURNETT: Before there's even a vote.

CARLSON: Well, yes, I think --

BURNETT: Well --

CARLSON: That would be the smart thing to do. But they haven't had good crisis P.R. in this whole thing. I mean, Trump was trying to change the minds of Boebert and Mace, two of the Republican representatives who are going to vote yes for this. He was trying to change their mind yesterday, and that news got out. That is not good P.R. when you're trying to say you have nothing to do with this.

BURNETT: And there's also, Barry --

LEVINE: Yes.

BURNETT: -- just because I kind of sowed the seed there with you, I want to make the other argument now, people like Maurene Comey happens to be James Comey's daughter, who had been running this investigation. There are people who know what's in -- what's in those files. In other words, if the full files don't come out or some part of things are left out, I would presume there are people who would at least be able to raise their hand, right?

LEVINE: Well, you would hope that there would be whistleblowers, but what is still troubling, Erin, is the fact that the Oversight Committee had to go to Jeffrey Epsteins estate to get these emails, these bombshell emails. Why didn't the FBI have these emails? Okay? You know, I was hearing tonight that Todd Blanche was saying he wasn't aware of these emails when he interviewed Ghislaine Maxwell.

BURNETT: Yeah, he did, because he's trying to explain why he didn't follow up on Ghislaine on obvious ways.

LEVINE: Yes, but what I'm saying is, why didn't the FBI have these? These were sitting with the estate for years and years and years. And thank goodness for the oversight committee that's actually doing some work and doing heavy lifting, getting this information bit by bit.

BURNETT: Do you think there's any -- I mean, it could be a chance where you literally just see almost every Republican do this once they realize that, you know, what side of history you want to be on?

CARLSON: Well, look, with these 20,000 emails and so many of them mentioning President Trump, I think their constituents are going to be hounding them to be voting yes. Remember, MAGA wanted these files released because they thought they were going to be able to see how high Dem -- high profile Dems there. The reality is, is that --

BURNETT: Which, by the way, there probably are.

CARLSON: There are. But there are also going to be Republicans. Because if there's one lesson I've learned in the last 10 years, it's about power, not party when you come to situations like this. So, it's going to be both sides. It's not just going to be Dems.

So, let's release the files so we can finally find out as a country.

BURNETT: Yeah. Thank you all very much. And next, a judge tonight -- big questions at a hearing on Trump's hand-picked prosecutor whether she's going to be completely ousted. We're talking about Lindsey Halligan, the crucial voice in the Comey and Letitia James cases. Ty Cobb is OUTFRONT.

And new details from inside Ghislaine Maxwell's prison. Arick just referred to it. But we've got new information, tables moved so no one can see into her cell. And small but important things like unlimited toilet paper. We have new details coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:33:43]

BURNETT: New tonight gasps in the courtroom. Gasps as a federal judge raised serious questions about Trump loyalist Lindsey Halligan. Today's hearing lasted more than an hour, and a ruling from the judge could come at any time, a ruling that may conclude that Lindsey Halligan, who has never tried a case in her career, is not qualified to serve in her job and is legally not able to be in her job. And that means cases against James Comey and Letitia James could be over.

OUTFRONT now, former Trump White House lawyer Ty Cobb. So, Ty, this was an important day. The hearing just over an hour about

Lindsey Halligan and whether she has -- whether she's allowed to be in her job. Will Halligan be disqualified and her indictments tossed out?

TY COBB, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE LAWYER: She will be disqualified. The indictment will be tossed out. The -- and may not be able to be re-brought because the statute of limitations has lapsed.

The James indictment is likely to be tossed out as well but it can be re-brought as Abbe Lowell conceded that today that in her situation that some somebody may, may reactivate that case.

BURNETT: So, I mean, it is pretty stunning to imagine that this, that we're in this moment, Ty.

[19:35:03]

It really is.

At one point in the hearing, the judge was expressing really serious concerns about another aspect of this, which isn't just whether Lindsey Halligan actually was legally in her job when she signed the indictment and appeared to make the case, but that -- but that in front of the grand jury, there was a part of the Comey grand jury arguments and conversation that actually wasn't recorded.

You always have a court reporter in there. There would be a transcript of everything. And there wasn't. And the part that's missing covered a crucial event. The actual end, the final minutes of the grand jury session on the day the indictment was returned.

What could that even be about?

COBB: So if it's intentional -- it's prosecutorial misconduct of the highest order. Now, it's conceivable there was a technical glitch. It's conceivable there may be a recording. There are a lot of things that we, you know, we can't rule out at this stage of the game. But it -- the Justice Department's statement later today in response to this issue highlighted the fact that this was during the -- this was during the deliberations which are not recorded typically.

So, this was the deliberation period, but that ignores the fact that this was not an easy deliberation. They threw out the first count of the -- of the Comey indictment. So, and that would have been the most complicated discussion between the prosecutor and the grand jury. And for an inexperienced prosecutor to navigate those circumstances, which are extremely rare, virtually impossible.

BURNETT: And, of course, that was the situation, right? As I said, has never tried a case before.

COBB: Yeah.

BURNETT: So, you think that she -- they're going to say she is not legally in her position and that that these for sure the Comey and possibly the James as well could be tossed. I want to ask you about one other really important thing here, Ty,

which is the deputy attorney, Todd Blanche. And very much in the center of everything today with these big developments on the Epstein files, he is trying to fight back against serious criticism about his conversation with Ghislaine Maxwell. That's the conversation that he had back in July, right, when she was in a much more serious facility in Florida, right after that conversations, when she gets moved to this cushy facility in Texas.

So, at the time, Maxwell tape -- Ghislaine tapes the whole conversation. She tells him, quote, I don't recall ever seeing Trump in Epstein's house. That's what she says to him in July. They put this out, right? The White House wanted everyone to hear this.

In the new emails that we've just gotten, Epstein writes to Maxwell about Trump, quote, "One of the victims spent hours at my house with him." Maxwell responds, "I've been thinking about that."

I mean, Ty, I -- there's many things in here to question, but that one is just punches you in the face. Direct conflict to her statement to Blanche. He did not follow up with her. And he says today that that's because law enforcement didn't have the materials that Epstein's estate hid for years, he said, and only just provided to Congress.

Does that excuse add up, Ty?

COBB: So -- no, it doesn't add up at all. And keep in mind that in 2000 -- you know, in 2017 and again in 2019, there were multiple searches of all of Epstein's computers, phones, electronic record keeping and databases. I find it hard to imagine that these documents weren't on those databases, because otherwise, why would the estate have them?

So, I think -- I think, Blanche and in trying to defend himself from what was an obvious exercise to create a script. You know, she created a script with Blanche to try to exonerate Trump in exchange for getting moved a week later to a low security prison, which she's not qualified for under the -- under the guidelines. And, you know, I mean, my God, he even gave her a puppy.

So, the theory that this wasn't all a set up and designed purely to get a -- get a exonerating statement from her, that obviously bears no relationship to the truth based on the documents that were released yesterday. And that it was -- it was only that and not a serious interrogation. And you can tell from the transcript it was not an interrogation.

No self-respecting former prosecutor of Blanche's quality could have -- could have conducted that interrogation in such a benign way.

BURNETT: It's pretty incredible. And then just to see it in black and white here right now.

Ty, thank you as always.

COBB: Thank you, Erin. BURNETT: And next, a socialist mayor now heading one of America's

major cities. She says she has a plan to Trump-proof her city.

Seattle Mayor-elect Katie Wilson is here for her first national interview.

And new revelations about the perks that Ghislaine Maxwell is getting behind bars, including having tables near her cell relocated, so other inmates can't look inside, and a punishment for inmates who speak out about her.

[19:40:02]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Maxwell is being treated with a tremendous amount of deference. The women tend to stay away from her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: New tonight, a self-described socialist winning the mayor's race in one of America's biggest cities. And I'm not talking about Zohran Mamdani in New York City.

Katie Wilson is a political outsider and was just elected, just becoming mayor-elect of Seattle, beating the incumbent there by a razor thin margin.

[19:45:01]

So, we're just getting the results now. And Wilson did not shy away from the socialist label during the campaign, saying in part, quote, "Yes, I am a socialist. I'm fine with being called a socialist." And as these headlines show, her victory, creating shock waves on the right, Fox News, Newsmax, "Washington Examiner", all quick to call her a socialist, obviously, from their perspective, a very negative thing.

Mayor-elect Katie Wilson is now OUTFRONT for her first national interview since winning the race.

And, Mayor-elect, I really appreciate your time.

And I want to get to this issue because this word socialist, it is now so important in America and such a topic of conversation, and you clearly are proud of being called a socialist. You're not afraid of it.

Can you explain what it means to you in terms of what you're going to do as mayor, with one of the biggest cities in America?

KATIE WILSON, MAYOR-ELECT OF SEATTLE: Sure. And I mean, I'll say, while I don't' shy away from the label, I certainly didn't run on it either. And I think we're really in a moment now where people care a lot less about labels than they do about results. And I ran for mayor in Seattle because we are in a moment where we

have an affordability crisis, just like many cities around the country, people are struggling with the cost of housing, with the cost of childcare, with the cost of food. And people are really looking for city leadership that's going to tackle that affordability crisis, and our housing crisis with everything we've got.

We also have a severe homelessness crisis here in Seattle, and people are really looking for meaningful solutions. We have rates of unsheltered homelessness higher than just about anywhere in the country. So those are the issues that I've been running on.

And, you know, for me, being a socialist is really, first of all, it's about a belief in good governance, right? I think it's really damaging when people lose faith in the ability of their government to successfully tackle big challenges, when they lose faith in their governments ability to deliver services for the people.

And so, I'm really excited to get to work to make sure that the city of Seattle is delivering for people and that we are responsive and communicative and doing the things that people want their government to do for them.

BURNETT: So, obviously, you just mentioned some of the words that here in New York, we heard a lot from the mayor-elect here, Zohran Mamdani, right? When you talk about affordability but the word echoes don't end there, Mayor-elect. Let me play some of them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D), NEW YORK: The very clear twin crises of affordability.

WILSON: We are facing an affordability crisis.

MAMDANI: Truly affordable homes.

WILSON: Affordable homeownership.

MAMDANI: This city is your city.

WILSON: This isn't their city. It's yours.

MAMDANI: A new generation of leadership.

WILSON: We can see with our own eyes that we need new leadership.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: I mean, you know, we sometimes will put what we call a montage together like that, Mayor-elect. It doesn't -- it doesn't get easier than that one. I mean, it really does sound -- you sound so much alike. I guess I'm just curious. Have you ever met him? Have you talked to each other at all since either of your victories, which are so important on coast to coast? WILSON: Not yet, although I certainly hope to. You know, and it's

funny because when I decided to run in this race, which was in February of this year, I had never heard of Zohran Mamdani. And so, it was a fun process over the first few months of my campaign to start getting text messages from friends. Oh, you got to check out this guy in New York City.

And so, I really do think it's remarkable and also makes a lot of sense, right? I think that there are some similar conditions playing out here in Seattle to New York. You know, obviously the affordability crisis being a big one. And yeah, there's some very similar dynamics and I'm really excited to have a coast-to-coast partnership on driving forward this vision of an affordable city.

BURNETT: So, one part of your platform, as you called it, was to, quote/unquote, Trump proof Seattle. And that included, Mayor-elect, telling your voters that you would protect neighbors and defend Seattle's status as a sanctuary city, right? The crucial words.

You know, President Trump is adamantly against that. He sent the ICE, National Guard into Democratic city after city to crack down on illegal immigration.

Are you worried at all that your win, your proud ownership of being a socialist could put Seattle as the next target?

WILSON: I mean, I think Seattle has been on lists from the very beginning, and it's something that we need to be prepared for. And I really think that the key here is unity, right? We don't need federal troops. We don't need the national guard in our city.

We, you know, we can address our own problems and making sure that we are united within Seattle. Our city government is working in lockstep with all of the amazing organizations, advocates we have on the ground that are here to protect immigrants' rights, making sure that the city is working with King County, with our state government, and really making sure that we are working from a position of strength. And also, of course, learning from all of the cities around the country that have faced this already.

BURNETT: So I want to ask you one other thing, because you sit here as a mayor elect, you're in your early 40s, you've accomplished so much at such a young age.

[19:50:04]

And in that context, you have been open about the fact that you have done that with your parents' help, that your parents who live across the country have sent you checks to help pay for your toddler's childcare. Right? With all the things that you've accomplished when it comes to affordability, that you still needed that.

Now, Fox News and "The New York Post" have framed that in a negative way. They have said, Mayor-elect, that you are, quote/unquote, living off your parents money. I'm curious how you see it, because this is something you've been very open about. Do you think that people in Seattle see this as a negative or as a positive that people can relate to?

WILSON: Well, I'll say that my opponent's campaign and the corporate PAC that tried to stop my election certainly cast it as a negative thing. But, you know, campaigning for office is stressful. Seattle is one of the most expensive cities in the country. Our childcare is off the charts, expensive.

And honestly, I think that a lot of people of my generation and younger and older found it very relatable that during this stressful campaign, you know, my parents chipped in to help to pay for the cost of their granddaughter's daycare. And I think, you know, families help each other out. And I certainly acknowledge that I'm lucky to be in a position where my parents were able to do that. Not all families have that privilege.

And, you know, that's why I'm going to fight for affordable childcare and affordable housing for every family in this city.

BURNETT: Mayor-elect Wilson, I appreciate your time and thank you.

WILSON: Thank you.

BURNETT: All right. Next, new reporting on Ghislaine Maxwell's special treatment, inside that prison facility. Furniture allegedly moved so that no one else could look into her cell. Reports of things like unlimited toilet paper, raising new questions tonight about her transfer and what's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:55:54]

BURNETT: Tonight, new details about the list of perks that Ghislaine Maxwell is getting behind bars right now. We are learning that Maxwell got tables near her cell, moved simply because she complained about other inmates being able to use them to climb up or something to look in.

This coming on top of other inmates being moved out of her cell and other special treatment -- treatment that one prison official says is necessary all raising more questions about Maxwell's controversial transfer to a minimum security prison this summer.

M.J. Lee is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

M.J. LEE, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL ENTERPRISE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Most inmates inside of this minimum security prison camp in Bryan, Texas, worry about running out of toilet paper just two rolls per inmate each week.

For Ghislaine Maxwell, it's not a problem. She gets as much as she needs.

It's one of the many ways that the convicted child sex trafficker and the late Jeffrey Epstein's right-hand woman is getting special treatment, and Maxwell's fellow inmates are up in arms.

SAM MANGEL, FEDERAL PRISON CONSULTANT: Ms. Maxwell is being treated with a tremendous amount of deference, and that is extremely unusual, if unheard of.

LEE (voice-over): CNN has learned those unusual accommodations included having other inmates removed from her cell, getting meals and mail delivered directly to her, and being permitted to use the chaplain's office to meet with guests outside of visitation hours.

And when Maxwell raised concerns about inmates looking into her room from tables nearby, those tables were moved.

MANGEL: The women tend to stay away from her for a myriad of reasons.

LEE (voice-over): Soon after Maxwell arrived at Bryan, sources say the prison's warden gathered all of the inmates and warned, do not speak to anyone about Maxwell. One inmate, who did give a comment to a reporter, was summoned by prison officials, scolded, then transferred to a higher security facility in Houston. Sources say several other inmates were similarly moved out of Bryan after they raised concerns about Maxwell.

Some of these details echoed this week by a whistleblower, who told the top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee that Maxwell was also provided a puppy to play with.

REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): She gets essentially room service behind bars. She can use the shower, she can use the gym whenever she wants to. She gets special treatment there.

LEE (voice-over): The Bureau of Prisons denying the suggestion of preferential treatment, telling CNN it has a duty to ensure no inmate is treated any different from the next and that no inmate is subject to acts of violence while in custody.

Another official telling CNN Maxwell has received death threats and that these measures are necessary for her safety. Maxwell's questionable transfer from a higher security prison to Bryan Camp in August came only days after she met in person with Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche --

GHISLAINE MAXWELL, EPSTEIN ACCOMPLICE: The president was never inappropriate with anybody.

LEE (voice-over): -- when she defended President Donald Trump.

MAXWELL: In the times that I was with him, he was a gentleman in all respects.

LEE (voice-over): Maxwell, who is currently eyeing a commutation from the president, thrust back into the spotlight this week after new emails showed multiple examples of Epstein discussing Trump, including saying, "I know how dirty Donald is," and, "Of course, he knew about the girls as he asked Ghislaine to stop". Today, Blanche pushing back on the criticism that his interview with Maxwell in July failed to address the emails, saying when I interviewed Maxwell, law enforcement didn't have the materials Epstein's estate hid for years and only just provided to Congress.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT: M.J. -- I mean, it's just incredible to watch all of that and to imagine those other women that have been put to more prisons with higher security. It's stunning. What does this mean for Maxwell's expected request to Trump for a pardon or commutation?

LEE: Well, Erin, Maxwell was sentenced to 20 years in prison and the vast majority of that sentence she has yet to serve. And so, the revelation this week that she has been working on a commutation application inside prison is all the more significant in that context. And according to a whistleblower, the prison's warden has been helping her with the application by copying, sending emails.

So, if that's not special privilege, I don't know what is.

BURNETT: Yeah, it's absolutely incredible.

M.J., thank you so much for all of that reporting.

And thanks so much, as always to all of you for being with us.

"AC360" starts now.