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Erin Burnett Outfront
Pentagon Report Concludes Hegseth Risked Endangering Troops; Epstein Files Deadline Nearing For DOJ, Lawmakers Demand Briefing; Russia Strikes Ukraine After Rejecting Trump's Deal. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired December 03, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:24]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Breaking news, an official investigation finds Pete Hegseth risked American troops, a very rare conclusion by a Pentagon investigator, as more Republicans say Hegseth committed a war crime. Are his days as defense secretary numbered?
Plus, Epstein Island. There are newly unveiled pictures tonight from Jeffrey Epstein's private estate as questions grow about why it is taking the DOJ so long to release those Epstein files.
And, quote, "garbage". That's how Trump is describing immigrants in Minneapolis. The mayor who Trump just called a fool will respond live.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
(MUSIC)
BURNETT: And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
An OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news, Pete Hegseth risked endangering American troops. That is the conclusion from one of the most reports from the Pentagon inspector general in history. And this report stems from an extensive investigation into the defense secretary's decision to share sensitive war plans on a group chat, a group chat that actually turned out to include a journalist, Jeffrey Goldberg.
Now, Hegseth revealed in that chat the exact times the fighter jets would launch, where they were going to fly, when they would hit their targets, what the targets were obviously -- meaning that the American pilots of those jets were at risk. It is a rare conclusion about a sitting secretary of defense.
And news of this report comes as questions are mounting about Hegseth's control at the Pentagon and his competence after a second strike on an alleged drug boat. That strike, killing two survivors who were reportedly clinging to the wreckage.
Now, tonight, Trump was forced to say that he would release the video of that second strike.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: You released video of that first strike on September 2nd, but not the second video. Will you release video of that strike so that the American people can see for themselves?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't know what they have, but whatever they have would certainly release. No problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now, of course, Trump has talked similarly about the Epstein files, his taxes, his MRI, but this time might be different. Maybe Trump thinks it will help Hegseth. It's unclear, but this is the video that Hegseth now claims that he himself did not watch live. He says now he didn't see it, too many other things to do. That, of course, was after he had boasted originally on Fox News that he had watched the entire thing live back in September.
"The Washington Post" reports that if the video of the blast that killed the two survivors on September 2nd were made public, people would be horrified, said one person who watched the actual live feed. But it comes as more people, including staunch conservatives, are suggesting Hegseth could be guilty of an actual war crime.
Listen to his former Fox News colleague Andrew Napolitano, who now works at the Trump friendly station Newsmax.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW NAPOLITANO, NEWSMAX: Everybody along the line who did it from the secretary of defense to the admiral, to the people who actually pulled the trigger, should be prosecuted for a war crime, for killing these two people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right. That's not mincing words, was mincing words at all.
And then there's the brutal headline from conservative columnist George Will, who wrote, "A sickening moral slum of an administration." And then went on to write, "Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth seems to be a war criminal without a war, an interesting achievement." Okay.
And then listen to Republican Senator Rand Paul, who said Hegseth is either lying or incompetent, yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): There is a question of the legality of bombing people who are shipwrecked or incapacitated. I frankly think it's absolutely illegal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: This may be why the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Roger Wicker, who voted to confirm Hegseth, is now refusing to say whether or not he has confidence in Trump's defense secretary.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Do you have confidence in him? Would you say that? Can you say if you do?
Thanks for your time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And while all these questions swirl around Hegseth, who of course calls himself the secretary of war, he is refusing to sit down for tough interviews, turning down multiple interview requests from CNN and others. But an interview was released last night, which appears to have been taped before news of this whole second strike imbroglio.
And in that conversation, which was with Stephen Miller's wife Katie, Hegseth talks about whether he let Stephen Miller babysit his kids and what he eats for breakfast.
[19:05:06]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATIE MILLER, PODCAST HOST: Who would you trust to babysit your kids?
PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Who would I trust to babysit my kids?
MILLER: This can only be another member of the cabinet.
HEGSETH: Only another member of the cabinet? Oh, I mean. Not your husband or Marco.
MILLER: Who would you trust to do your grocery shopping?
HEGSETH: Well, Bobby Kennedy.
I have the same breakfast every morning. Bacon, eggs and sausage and something with meat at lunch. And then whatever she makes for dinner. Meatballs are really, really good. Homemade meatballs with little sausage in there
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Kristen Holmes is OUTFRONT live outside the White House.
Kristen, is the president as confident about Hegseth in private as he claims to be in public right now?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think you need to look at that White House statement, because the last line of that statement from Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt said the president stands by Pete Hegseth, and that was a calculated decision. Think about all of the stories that we have put forward, saying that there is doubt in certain members of the cabinet where we have not gotten that kind of a statement back in which they say this is fake news, but then kind of let it go.
They have made a calculated decision in this instance. Remember, this was just in response to this inspector general report that they are going to stand by Hegseth. And there is some thought that goes into that. The reason is they expended so much political and personal capital, so many of them, to get him across the finish line. It's going to take a lot for them to try and get rid of him or to get rid of him.
But one thing to keep a note here. You mentioned this when it comes to Venezuela. When it comes to the second strike, we are hearing louder and louder calls from Republicans as well as Democrats. And tomorrow we are going to see the Admiral Bradley, who is essentially kind of seems as though he has been somewhat of a scapegoat. We'll see if that is how it plays out on the Hill, talking to senators.
And there's going to be a lot of questions about what his role was, and then you're going to hear from those senators again. And one thing is clear. If the calls get louder and louder, and if they get too loud, it is likely the White House will start to at least have to have these conversations with the senators, not just standing by Hegseth. So we'll see how this all plays out, once you actually have that admiral talking to those senators.
But again, we've been down this road before, Erin, they expended a lot of capital on Pete Hegseth. They're going to keep him. As of now, they're saying they're standing by him.
BURNETT: All right. Kristen, thank you very much.
And OUTFRONT now, Democratic Congresswoman Chrissy Houlahan. She's on the Armed Services and Intel Committees.
A lot to ask you about this evening, Congresswoman. This inspector general report, though a pretty incredible thing to have come out right, to say that a secretary of defense had risked endangering the lives of American troops. It comes out as Hegseth is also now being criticized by some of those Republicans and conservatives, that I was just sharing a few moments ago.
Do you think that Hegseth, at this moment, is actually in danger of losing his job as defense secretary?
REP. CHRISSY HOULAHAN (D-PA): First of all, thank you for having me. And the answer to your question is, I sure hope he's in danger because from the moment he was confirmed, I believe that he was incompetent and a liar all combined. And now, I hope that people are starting to see through all of the things that are unfolding, whether it's Venezuela or the results of the I.G.'s report, just how hazardous this particular secretary of defense is and how much he puts the men and women in uniform in harm's way, and how much is a consequence our national security is in danger.
BURNETT: So "The New York Times", just a few moments ago reported, and we were just going through this, that Hegseth had actually approved contingency plans. If there were survivors of the strikes, which said the contingency plan said that the military would attempt to aid anyone who appeared helpless or out of the fight.
So, then you would say, well, then why did the second strike come in when two people are clinging for their lives to the side of the boat? Well, the contingency plan says the military would try to kill survivors if they took what was deemed a hostile act. And apparently officials are saying that one of the survivors are telling the times that one of the survivors radioed for help, and then Admiral Bradley ordered the second strike.
As I've laid that out to you in terms of a timeline, in terms of the contingency plan itself, would that in any way possibly exonerate Hegseth?
HOULAHAN: I don't believe so. And one of the things I was interested in is new information to me is that you mentioned that President Trump is able and willing to release the second tape. I'm glad that that is the case and look forward to that.
But I also look forward to the audio as well being released to understand. And the video within the room itself to understand who was there, who was listening, what was, what was being said. All of those things, including the details that you just laid out, need to come to light, need to be part of the oversight process, whether they are done by the intelligence committee or the armed services committee, the American public deserves the oversight that the congress would allow us to provide.
[19:10:01]
BURNETT: So, I want to ask you also about our KFILE. CNN's KFILE unearthed video of Pete Hegseth from 2016. And he said something specific about U.S. soldiers conduct. And following lawful orders from the chain of command. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEGSETH: I do think there have to be consequences for abject war crimes. If you're doing something that is just completely unlawful and ruthless, then there is a consequence for that. That's why the military said it won't follow unlawful orders from their commander in chief. There's a standard, there's an ethos. There's a belief that we are above what so many things that our enemies or others would do
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: That, of course, is what you and obviously, congresswoman, you are an air force veteran. You and other Democratic colleagues also, who served in the armed forces, said in the video you put out, which Hegseth called seditious. Here is that clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): Our laws are clear. You can refuse illegal orders.
SEN. ELISSA SLOTKIN (D-MI): You can refuse illegal orders.
REP. CHRIS DELUZIO (D-PA): You must refuse illegal orders.
SLOTKIN: No one has to carry out orders that violate the law.
HOULAHAN: Or our Constitution
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And there you are at the end, Congresswoman. So what's your reaction when you hear this? When you hear Hegseth at the time, the commander in chief that he was referring to saying the military won't follow unlawful orders from their commander in chief was Barack Obama.
HOULAHAN: Sure. I've seen the both of the videos that you just showed, and I've also seen a really good mashup of the two videos of the five of us, actually six of us. And then the secretary, and you wouldn't know that we were saying anything different than one another, or were on opposite sides or different parties. We are all singing from the same hymnal, so to speak.
And so, what I'm struggling with is how did Secretary Hegseth go from saying that to also then the enormous disdain that he has for the JAG, the group of people in the military who make sure to advise on our laws and make sure to tell us what is appropriate and inappropriate to do. He's gotten rid of the JAG. He's dismissed them out of the room in many occasions. And I'm just this is another proof point of ours that says that he does not deserve the job that he has, and we need to make sure that he is removed from office.
BURNETT: Congresswoman, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much.
HOULAHAN: You're welcome. Thank you.
BURNETT: I want to bring Gretchen Carlson now and Paul Rieckhoff.
And it's good to have both of you back. Paul. That I.G. report says that Hegseth risked endangering American troops lives, right, because he put out that the planes were taking off and where they were going to target. So those pilots' lives, if not others, right, could have -- could have -- could have been threatened because that information had been put out publicly. There was a journalist on that chat.
Some Republicans now are saying a war crime was committed on that alleged drug boat. Right? So, all of this adding up.
You, Paul, have known Hegseth for 20 years. All right. 20 years you have known him. You're not mincing words when you talk about his lack of qualifications for his job. What are you hearing about what this means right now for the -- for the military, for the rank-and-file soldiers who are serving right now under Hegseth?
PAUL RIECKHOFF, FOUNDER & CEO, INDEPENDENT VETERANS OF AMERICA: You know, I'm not going to speak for all of them. They're not -- they're not a monolith. But here's what I think is definitely the consensus. Enough already. Enough.
It's just nonstop chaos. It's nonstop drama. It's nonstop politics. It's nonstop incompetence.
And I think the real issue here is that he has now been -- it looks like -- disclosed to have endangered the lives of troops with his own carelessness and arrogance. That's the bottom line here. I mean, how can our troops trust him not to get them killed? You're going to have reporters asking members of the Senate and the House, do you have confidence in him anymore?
Our troops are losing confidence in him every single day. Our military families are losing confidence in him every single day and every single day. He's in that office. Our country is less safe and our enemies are celebrating. So I don't know what the straw will be that finally broke the camel's back. But this collectively is consuming our entire defense apparatus and leaving us vulnerable by the day.
At the same time, the president seems to be putting the pedal down and wants to do strikes on Venezuela any day now. So, with all that happening, we need a solid, strong secretary of defense with integrity. And right now, we've got the opposite.
BURNETT: So, Gretchen, you know, Hegseth from your time at Fox News, right? You both worked there for years together. At this point, he knows he's fighting for his survival, right. Maybe when the Signalgate first broke, there was a moment that he might have had fear. This time, of course, it is louder and it is bigger.
How do you think this plays out from here in terms of what he does next?
GRETCHEN CARLSON, FORMER FOX NEWS HOST: Well, he still has the president behind him, and that's the most important thing for his survival. I think we have to see what Admiral Bradley says tomorrow. That's going to be key. Then our members of congress are going to want to hear again from Hegseth himself. And then it may be back to shoring up Republicans if it starts to get more dangerous.
I bring this all back, though, to the Epstein vote. A couple of weeks ago. I don't think that we would see so many Republicans coming out and actually publicly having questions about what actually happened with that vote. If the Epstein vote had not happened. I think that was a big turning point in the ability --
BURNETT: They realize that they actually had some sort of a --
CARLSON: A spine.
BURNETT: A spine.
CARLSON: And that they didn't necessarily have to do absolutely everything, Trump said.
I think from the American public's point of view, many people don't disagree with stopping the drug war, stopping those drugs from coming into America. And what we see time and time again from this administration is that they may be on the right side of public opinion, but the way in which they do things is with much too much bravado, and it gets them into difficulty. And that's the personality we're seeing with Trump and his administration and his secretary.
BURNETT: And Hegseth, of course, fits that, right?
CARLSON: Of course.
BURNETT: When he gave his speech, when he called all the generals in from around the world talking about hunting people down. Exactly. You know, it's --
CARLSON: It's this feeling that they're above --
BURNETT: -- the most dangerous game.
CARLSO: -- everyone else.
BURNETT: Yeah.
So, Paul, do you actually think all of this could cost Hegseth his job, or is this one of those, you know, you've got a giant stew swirling, and then suddenly the cloud passes and something else comes up?
RIECKHOFF: Isn't it ridiculous that were even asking that question? In normal time, he would be gone?
BURNETT: Yeah.
RIECKHOFF: I mean, this is so obvious. I think to so many folks outside the United States who don't understand our politics. I mean, this is a total compromising of our national security, of the lives of our sons and daughters that we put in harm's way.
I mean, he even said he left during the attack. Where did he go? That was more important during the attack that that he had to be instead of being there while America's sons and daughters were in harm's way? If he wasn't there between the second strike, I think it's important that members of the Senate pull this apart and find out where was he that was more important than being in that room? This is all just ridiculous.
And I really think it's important to understand, Hegseth said this having a really bad week here, but Putin is having a good one and our enemies are having a good one because they celebrate this chaos, they celebrate this tumult, and they celebrate our vulnerability. And right now, from a national security standpoint, this is making us all more vulnerable.
BURNETT: It's the Senator Rand Paul when he made the point of, you know, incompetence or lying, right? When he came out and said, I watched a strike and was very proud about it. And then a month later, I think, I think the words were Paul yesterday said that I have a lot, a lot of things going on at the department of war is what he said to Trump. So, I didn't stick around. I didn't stick around, was the word he said for the second strike. That's what he's saying now.
CARLSON: That's why the testimony tomorrow by Admiral Bradley is so important.
BURNETT: It's going to be so crucial. Now, Gretchen -- yeah, go ahead.
RIECKHOFF: I think you'll see -- you may see a contrast there, a real contrast between a leader who is a quiet professional, who owns his leadership responsibility and the spectacle that we've been seeing from Hegseth for so many months now.
BURNETT: So, Gretchen, the podcast, right. Hegseth and his wife sat down for Katie Miller's podcast. I only played part of it. I'll just play another little clip here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEGSETH: I can't give you a dad joke right now. I wouldn't even know. I mean, it's probably like trying to talk the kids talk in a way that sounds ridiculous.
MILLER: What kind of wings do you prefer? Flat, drums or boneless.
HEGSETH: Flats all the way. Buffalo, thousand island dressing. I love it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Okay, now, Gretchen, I made the point, this was taped before this debacle. Okay. With the second strike, but I think Paul points out it was taped in the context of threats of strikes on Venezuela. Witkoff getting ready for his next meeting with Putin. The war in Ukraine, all of these things going on. Right?
So, all of that is going on when ICE -- ICE raids are going on the national guard, all of these things, right? And then that interview happens.
How -- what does something like that say that he -- that he did that?
CARLSON: Well, first of all, you have to remember who's actually doing the interview. This is Stephen Miller's wife. So, I don't think we're going to get like a really hard hitting military --
BURNETT: No, no. You sit down with her for that sort of interview if you're him.
CARLSON: Exactly.
BURNETT: Yeah.
CARLSON: You know, do I think that he's actually going to sit down for a tougher interview about what's happening? No, because he's trying to get rid of all the Pentagon reporters, which is a fascinating point in and of itself, because this story is still blowing up whether or not they have access or not.
What I think this comes down to from a public point of view, though, and a political one, is that people have pretty much made up their mind whether or not they support Pete Hegseth or not. Remember, it came down to one vote in the Senate.
BURNETT: Yeah.
CARLSON: Senator Thom Tillis, and he is now having major questions as a result of these Venezuelan strikes.
But I think where we really may see the action is if the Senate decides to take a vote on whether or not you need congressional approval for these kinds of military actions. They talked about a vote a couple of weeks ago. They didn't think they could get enough Republicans. It will be very interesting to see if they think now, they would get enough Republicans, and that would put a stop to this kind of thing.
BURNETT: Right, right.
All right.
[19:20:00]
Well, thank you both very much. And I will point out you said something really important there that, you know, reporters don't have access to the Pentagon now because you're not allowed in unless you're only going to report what they authorize you to report, which is why Matt Gaetz, who now works for a network OANN, I believe was the only one there, but this is still getting out.
CARLSON: Yes.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you both. And next new pictures tonight from Epstein's private island, where the convicted sex offender took underage girls. One disturbing image shows this dental chair, and what's on the walls around it.
Plus, Putin's power play. Guess what? He's launching a massive attack on Ukraine hours after Trump's special envoy and his son in law went to that meeting with the Russian president. You know, where they had caviar right before. Ukraine's ambassador to the United States is OUTFRONT.
And Trump launching a major crackdown on Minnesota, claiming that some who live there are garbage. The Minneapolis mayor, who Trump just called a fool a bit ago, responds next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:25:06]
BURNETT: New tonight, where are those Epstein files? It has been exactly two weeks since the nearly every member of Congress voted to release those records. All but one. But there is still no sign of the records themselves.
The Justice Department running up against the clock as the December 19th deadline, races closer. And now, Congress is ramping up pressure. A bipartisan group of lawmakers sending an open letter to the attorney general, Pam Bondi, just a few hours ago that says we request a briefing either in a classified or unclassified setting, to discuss the full contents of this new information in your possession at your convenience, but not later than this Friday.
OUTFRONT now, Barry Levine, former editor of "The National Enquirer" and author of "The Spider", about Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.
Barry, this letter coming out, interesting that it says to discuss the full contents of this new information in your possession. So, unclear exactly what that refers to, because there's also the existing information which has to be released as part of this.
Do you think that we're going to see the files by the December 19th deadline?
Obviously, they've been sitting there for a long time. So, to take this long to do it, you know, what are they doing to them?
BARRY LEVINE, AUTHOR, "THE SPIDER": Well, Erin, they apparently spent $1 million doing redactions with all the FBI agents that were called in. I want to give them the benefit of the doubt and believe that we are going to see the files. I think now it turns to, what are we -- what are we actually going to see?
BURNETT: Right. We're going to have a piece of paper that looks like this.
LEVINE: Right.
BURNETT: Or one that looks like essentially this because it's all black. Yeah.
LEVINE: And, you know, today, "The New York Times" editorial board came out and said, there's every reason to believe that the Trump administration will exploit the process to protect any of its allies named in the files, starting with the president himself, and to embarrass Democrats and other perceived Trump enemies.
Now, you know, let's hope it doesn't go that way. Let's hope, you know, they're fair and they put everything out there that's not protected under national security or victims redactions or material that could go into the ongoing investigation into former President Clinton and some of the others that President Trump wanted, wanted to investigate.
But listen, I'm hoping that we can get into see material that shows us. Representative Tom Massie said that there were 20 men who took part in in the sex trafficking. Kash Patel, the FBI director, said there was no credible evidence to show sex trafficking. So, someone is wrong there. And that's where the rubber meets the road. BURNETT: Yeah.
LEVINE: We have to see what's in those files. And Representative Massie said there's a witness reports. There's evidence from the SDNY. Let's look at it. And if men did take part in the sex trafficking, why were they not prosecuted?
BURNETT: Well, that's the big question. And what other men's names are in there? As you know, there's trafficking and then there's participating --
LEVINE: Yes.
BURNETT: -- underage girls and there's knowledge of it. I mean, all of that's in there. We just don't know who and what.
The Democrats in the House Oversight Committee have released some new photos from Epstein's private Caribbean Island, which was the epicenter of some of his activity, although it happened, as we understand, in many other locations as well. But these photos were taken in 2020. This is the year after Epstein died in prison. Some of the photos are of a dental chair.
Now, you've done a lot of reporting and we see these heads just drawing everyone's attention to the heads that are on the wall, which is really bizarre. Then there's the dentist's chair itself, which is bizarre, but from all your reporting and research for your book, what is this?
LEVINE: Well, listen, the heads, Erin, are certainly creepy and --
BURNETT: Yeah.
LEVINE: It's anyone's guess what that's about.
The dental suite, based on my reporting, I believe, was for Jeffrey Epstein's girlfriend, Karyna Shuliak. And she had been with him since 2010. She was with him for 10 years.
He actually -- she was --
BURNETT: During which he was doing all these things?
LEVINE: Yes.
BURNETT: Yes.
LEVINE: Although she was apparently never exposed to any sex trafficking. She came from Belarus. She wanted to go to dental school.
He put her through dental school, and she is a -- still presently a licensed dentist in the Virgin Islands, in addition to Florida. So, she apparently was using that dental suite for --
BURNETT: And quickly, one other photo, a telephone with names written on speed dial buttons. Does anything jump out to you there? LEVINE: Well, at the very top of the speed dials, you have two names
that certainly jump out to me. Darren and Rich. And that would be his, Jeffrey Epstein's longtime lawyer, Darren Indyke, and his longtime accountant, Richard Kahn.
And these were obviously the two men -- these were the go-to men that took care of everything for Jeffrey Epstein. So, you know, they were at the top there. And then there's other names that we're not sure about.
BURNETT: Yeah. Wow. It's interesting to have your accountant be, that high up there.
Thank you very much.
LEVINE: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, Russia launching a massive attack on Ukraine, coming hours after Trump's son in law and his special envoy wrapped up that meeting with Putin. The Ukrainian ambassador to the United States is our guest next.
Plus, Mike Lindell, the pro-Trump conspiracy theorist wants to trade in pillows for a chance to be the next governor of Minnesota. The mayor of Minneapolis responds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:35:12]
BURNETT: Tonight, Putin launching a massive drone attack on Ukraine hours after Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner left Moscow. They were there, of course, in the hopes of convincing Putin to agree to a peace deal that failed.
And now, one Russian newspaper is declaring that Putin, quote, feels completely confident on the battlefield and sees no point in making any serious compromises, which of course, does not jive with what Trump says Witkoff and Kushner's takeaways from that meeting were.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Their impression was very strongly that he'd like to make a deal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OUTFRONT. Now, Olga Stefanishyna, she is Ukraine's ambassador to the United States.
And, Ambassador, I am very grateful for your time tonight.
You know, President Putin launching another series of massive strikes on Ukraine. And it comes just hours after those peace talks. What does that tell you about Putin right now? OLGA STEFANISHYNA, UKRAINIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: Well,
unfortunately, you can make a conclusions on the very fact if Russia wants or does not want the peace deal on the massive missile attacks Ukraine is facing almost every night and massive shortages in electricity affected by this attacks. Another nightly attack is clear signal that nothing has changed.
But we're ahead of a new coordination phase with our American partners and hope the follow up after Moscow meeting would give us a little bit more hope.
BURNETT: Now, Putin, as you know, is an hour and a half late to his meeting with the U.S. special envoy, Witkoff and Kushner. And that happened, as you know, Ambassador, after he wore his full military uniform the night before. And a very clear signal. Now, we understand that Witkoff and Kushner have invited your national security and defense council secretary, Rustem Umerov, to Miami on Thursday for more talks.
Do you know anything specifically about what the agenda is or the specific hopes for that meeting?
STEFANISHYNA: Well, indeed, the head of the delegation, president and nominated Rustam Umerov as the head of delegation to negotiate with the American colleagues on the framework of ending the war. He is, in fact, arriving to Miami tomorrow for a follow up meeting with Steve Witkoff after his -- he has had the chance to report his president. And also, he's coming back from Moscow.
This is a follow up meeting, and we can draw any conclusions only afterward. And also, Rustam Umerov is coming to Florida from Brussels, where we had where he had a wider coordination meeting with national security advisers from Europe. And I think this is also part of the discussion, which will be expanded to a security guarantees talk related to ending the war and security guarantees for Ukraine.
BURNETT: So, a former commander of the Russian ground forces actually is openly criticizing Moscow. It caught our attention because, he told the outlet RBC in Russia on November 27th. So, on Thursday, that the Russian military underestimated Ukraine, that it overestimated its own capabilities and that it was misled by intelligence, intelligence that Russia had that said, 70 percent of Ukrainians would support the invasion, which is shocking to anyone who is even there at the time that anybody could have thought such a thing, never mind intelligence service that supposedly had a lot of information.
How significant is this, though, that this former commander of the Russian ground forces is saying this?
STEFANISHYNA: Well, all is true. I can -- I can assure you, but also the funny angle to that is that for a decades, Russian government and Russian special services were pouring money and resources, investing in a political minions in Ukraine who just provided them with a fake information and fake data to get just more money, to get more resources to. So that just inspired them to pour more lie and lie -- lies. And that's just brought them where Russians were, where they had no clue about the real situation on the ground.
And as you know, this is a nation and a state which does not have so much knowledge about democracy, liberty. So, whatever they see in Ukraine, they are not believing it. They believe that there is some conspiracy. And this conspiracy was fueled by their own money, and the lies was poured, and they were paying for that.
BURNETT: So, this is really incredible. I mean, we see this now, but I'm just thinking, you know, being -- being there as a journalist coming from the United States, even in those weeks before the war, it was obvious that that number 70 percent wouldn't have been the case to think that they -- that they could have convinced themselves of something else is truly, truly stunning.
[19:40:08]
I also want to ask you about something, Ambassador. You were on Capitol Hill today for a senate appropriations committee hearing, and it was about abducted Ukrainian children. You have testified about them. Nearly 20,000 children, 20,000 of them, some of them extremely young, five years old, taken by Russia from Ukraine. So they're now in Russia right now. And obviously months and years are passing a lot of time in these young children's lives.
How many of these children will ever come home?
STEFANISHYNA: Well, the very important thing is that that the minimal amount of records which is at the disposal of Ukrainian government is that at least 20,000 of Ukrainian children who were abducted. But also, we should not forget that more than a million of Ukrainians remain on the occupied territory. And they are not abducted or trafficked, but they are captured in these territory, and forcefully indoctrinated and forced to, obey to the Russian laws. And even conscripted to a Russian army upon their reaching 18 years.
So, this is a very serious thing, and its going beyond the abduction. So -- and I hope that the testifies -- that those who testified today gave a lot of background. And I think that senator -- senators and Senate should have zero doubt when they would consider passing the law on recognition of Russia as a sponsor of terrorism.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you so much, Ambassador Stefanishyna. I appreciate your time.
And next, Trump intensify -- intensifying his crackdown on Minnesota. The mayor of Minneapolis is OUTFRONT next.
And this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ISA SOARES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Looks and smells like coffee. But under a microscope, there's cocaine inside.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: It's a special CNN investigation, OUTFRONT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news, the Trump administration's crackdown on immigrants that President Trump has called garbage underway this hour. Trump saying that the Somali community in the Minneapolis area, quote, should go back where they came from.
And Trump tonight also ramping up attacks on the mayor, who is vowing to protect his residents. Trump calling the mayor a fool. Well, Mayor Jacob Frey will be my guest in just a moment.
[19:45:01]
But first, Omar Jimenez is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: When they come from hell and they complain and do nothing but bitch, we don't want them in our country. Let them go back to where they came from and fix it. Thank you very much, everybody.
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Trump now making a point of targeting Somali migrants as a new ICE operation from the Trump administration, is underway in Minneapolis and St. Paul, Minnesota area, a federal official tells CNN, targeting the largest population of Somali immigrants in the country. Minnesota's Governor Tim Walz wrote in part on X pulling a PR stunt and indiscriminately targeting immigrants is not a real solution to a problem.
Trump is also going after the highest profile Somali American elected to Congress, Democratic Representative Ilhan Omar, who represents the Minneapolis area.
TRUMP: She shouldn't be allowed to be a congresswoman, and I'm sure people are looking at that. And she should be thrown the hell out of our country.
REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): I would say the president's obsession with me and the Somali community is really unhealthy. It's creepy. And I hope that he gets the help that he needs.
OMAR (voice-over): But President Trump's rhetoric is translating to policy. Somalia is one of 19 countries included in President Trump's latest travel restrictions, implemented over the summer. Now, his administration will reexamine all green cards issued to people from certain countries, which includes Somalia. After the recent national guard shooting allegedly carried out by an Afghan national.
REPORTER: What do the Somalians have to do with this Afghan guy who shot the National Guards?
TRUMP: Nothing but Somalians have caused a lot of trouble. They're ripping us off for a lot of money. OMAR (voice-over): President Trump appeared to be alluding to
allegations of large scale fraud in Minnesota, as his Treasury Department and Small Business Administration launched new investigations, one into various allegations that fraudulently secured funds are being funneled from immigrant communities to terrorists overseas, and another into alleged networks of small business fraud.
Aspects of the latter were already proven in court, including in what's been dubbed the largest COVID-19 fraud scheme in the country, to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars and more than 75 people charged going back to 2022, centered on a nonprofit and a pandemic program meant to provide free meals to kids in need.
The convicted mastermind, Amy Bock, instead used the money to fund lavish lifestyles. But the majority of the defendants in the case are Somali.
Wednesday, the governor seemed prepared for any coming investigations.
GOV. TIM WALZ (D), MINNESOTA: If they want to help us, I welcome them. I think they do an investigation, find out. But I don't think anybody in here really believes their motive and their timing is about actually doing something about this.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JIMENEZ: And Governor Walz reiterated today that those committing fraud in his state will go to prison regardless of color or religion. And then for the Somali migrants in the Minneapolis area, they've been there for decades at this point.
And it's part of why we heard from the Minneapolis mayor and police chief reiterating that Minneapolis police won't be performing federal immigration enforcement operations, but also acknowledging the real fear that has become an increasingly similar type of fear that immigrants and immigrant communities across the United States have felt over the course of this year, Erin.
BURNETT: Omar, thank you very much.
And I want to go now to the Minneapolis mayor, Jacob Frey.
And, Mayor, I appreciate your time.
So, you know what exactly is going on, on the ground right now? I mean, who are the federal agents going after? Are they -- are they going after people there illegally only? Are there U.S. citizens also being targeted? What's happening?
MAYOR JACOB FREY (D), MINNEAPOLIS: I'm not even clear that the federal agents know exactly what they're doing here because here's the thing, the Somali community is almost universally American citizens. They have come here legally. They are in our city legally. They've been here in many cases for decades, and they have contributed greatly to the fabric of who we are. They're part of our family here in Minneapolis. I mean, they are our banker. They are our babysitter. You know, in my
family, they're my bodyguard. And that's just the B's. These are people that have benefited Minneapolis in a really beautiful way.
And to just go after a whole community indiscriminately, it's unconstitutional. It's flat out un-American. But, you know, I guess that's what we've become accustomed to with Donald Trump.
BURNETT: Trump, of course, used the word garbage, to refer to that community. And I want to play something he said about you today, actually, as well as the community in your city and state. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: The mayor of Minneapolis, Jacob Frey, is saying that he's actually proud to have the largest Somali community in the country. And his police chief --
[19:50:03]
TRUMP: Well then he's a fool.
REPORTER: Well, his police chief is also saying --
TRUMP: That beautiful state, it's a hellhole right now. And the Somalians should be out of here. They've destroyed our country, and all they do is complain, complain, complain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So, you're a fool. Your state's a hellhole, and the Somalians have destroyed our country. What's your response, Mayor?
FREY: Well, that's neither clever nor is it right. Donald Trump seems to just spew out of his mouth whatever happens to come to mind in the moment.
But here's the thing. Come out to Minneapolis. What you won't find is a hellhole, but a beautiful city. It is a city in a park. You won't find a community that is tearing down Minneapolis in our Somali Americans. You will find a group of people that is uplifting Minneapolis and is proud to be here. They are proud to call this extraordinary place home.
It's obviously disturbing that the president of the United States would use terms like garbage to talk about an entire community that are Americans, Somali Americans are Americans. They make Minneapolis a better place. And we're proud to have these Americans in our city.
I think the other thing that we ought to look at is the fact that if they're just indiscriminately going after people, due process is violated, habeas corpus is violated, the entire Constitution is in and of itself being thrown in a garbage.
So, you want to use the term garbage, that's exactly what Donald Trump is doing right now to the Constitution of the United States. BURNETT: So, for people who ask why this is happening now, one of the
reasons is what Omar Jimenez was explaining. He was laying out the major fraud scandal that Trump is citing as justification for the crackdown. This is, of course, a fraud investigation that began under Biden. Indictments started several years ago back in 2022, right? This has been a longstanding process, most of it under the Biden administration.
But Trump has cited as justification this was a fraud scheme that robbed taxpayers of $300 million through a program meant to provide children with meals, fraud that went on for two years. Should Governor Walz, when it comes to the fraud itself, should he have known about this and stopped it sooner?
FREY: I mean, the bottom line is that anybody who commits fraud, anybody who commits a crime, steals money from children and prevents money from going to really important causes like food or housing, they should get prosecuted. And they should ultimately get put in jail. I can't speak to the ins and outs of who knew what when, but the bottom line is that fraudsters should be held accountable for their fraud.
The system that we have in America is that you get held accountable for the crimes that you commit as an individual. You rise based on your own merit. You fail based on your own flaws. You don't get held accountable as a community member because somebody else from within your community did something really awful or stupid.
I'm Jewish, but I never got held accountable for the financial crimes that Bernie Madoff committed. You know, I guess Ted Kaczynski is polish, but its not like polish people everywhere got held accountable for the unabombing that he was doing.
I mean, let's just look at this in reality, this is ridiculous. Of course, hold people accountable for their crimes. We're a nation of laws. But what we aren't is a nation that trashes the Constitution of the United States.
Constitutional scholars out there, be they Democrat or Republican, should be losing it over this. This is not okay. These are American citizens, and they can't indiscriminately attack a whole community here in Minneapolis.
BURNETT: Mayor Frey, I appreciate your time, as always, and I thank you.
FREY: Thank you so much, Erin.
BURNETT: And next, it looks like coffee and it smells like coffee. But in this case, it isn't. It's cocaine, special CNN investigation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:56:44]
BURNETT: Breaking news, Trump doubling down on his threat to hit any country that is trafficking drugs into the United States, as Colombia's president is taking on Trump's threats.
Isa Soares is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: I hear Colombia, the country of Colombia, is making cocaine. They have cocaine manufacturing plants.
ISA SOARES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Colombia's decades- long struggle with narco trafficking, concealment has become an art born of desperation, driving traffickers from low level couriers to organized networks to employ methods that range from the absurd to the darkly ingenious.
SOARES: This is 1.2 tons of coffee destined for the United Kingdom. At least it looks like coffee, right? Youve got the very official packaging, product of Colombia, they dated expires. If I look closer, actually looks and smells like coffee. But under a microscope. There's cocaine inside.
SOARES (voice-over): Lieutenant Colonel Hector Toro (ph) says his unit tested this load after it was flagged by an artificial intelligence system they use to identify suspicious shipments, passengers and even mail.
It's one of the many examples of how drug seizures here at Bogota's El Dorado airport have become bolder and more frequent as cocoa production in Colombia continues to rise.
SOARES: As you can see that one, you can see the white inside.
SOARES (voice-over): That increase the reason why the U.S. says it has dropped Colombia as a partner in the fight against drug trafficking.
TRUMP: We have a Colombia problem.
SOARES (voice-over): Its president, Gustavo Petro, with whom I sat down for an exclusive interview, is also feeling the heat, with U.S. hitting him with sanctions and accusing him of being an illegal drug dealer.
PRESIDENT GUSTAVO PETRO, COLOMBIA: What President Trump says is the opposite of reality. He thinks I'm a thug, a subversive, a terrorist.
SOARES (voice-over): The tit for tat between both presidents has only escalated as President Trump goes after alleged drug boats off the coast of Venezuela and Colombia, as well, actions the Petro has deemed illegal under international law. And as far as drugs are concerned, the Colombian president says he is doing his part.
PETRO: The government has seized the most cocaine in history globally is the government of Colombia under my administration.
SOARES (voice-over): Major General Edgar Falla Vargas, who oversees Colombia's aerospace forces in the southern hemisphere, tells me intelligence sharing with U.S. and 41 countries have been key to their success in eradicating drug trafficking by air.
MAJ. GEN. EDGAR FALLA VARGAS, COLOMBIAN AIR FORCE: In 2003, there were 639 aircraft leaving Colombia bound for the United States. This year, we can say we have had three.
SOARES (voice-over): Under pressure, traffickers have looked to the sea to make their gains. Most shipments leaving Colombia on speedboats or concealed inside shipping containers. But the main route, not the Caribbean, as President Trump's campaign against Venezuela seems to suggest.
VARGAS: From my perspective, we have an increase in the Pacific corridor. However, activity in the Caribbean is not zero.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Thanks to Isa Soares.
And earlier, I suggested former Congressman Matt Gaetz was the only person in the Hegseth-friendly Pentagon briefing yesterday. There were other members of right leaning outlets present, but only ones that had agreed to Hegseth's media pledge, which exposed reporters to legal jeopardy if they publish material not expressly authorized by the Pentagon.
Thanks so much for being with us. Anderson starts now.
