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Erin Burnett Outfront
China Hits $1T Surplus, U.S. Sentiment In the Pits, Trump All In On A.I.; Hegseth Slammed Trump In 2016 Over Potentially Illegal Troop Orders; ICE Tracking App Sues. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired December 08, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:26]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
One trillion dollars, a new record for China's trade surplus with the United States, even after Trump's tariff war. What happened to making China pay? This is major warning signs are flashing over the economy.
An exclusive reporting from our KFILE, Pete Hegseth saying the military should not follow illegal orders. And he's going after Donald Trump. Yeah. Pete Hegseth, we'll show you.
Plus, he created an app that tracks ICE. Apple then took it down after pressure from the White House. The creator of that app suing. Tonight, he's our guest.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
(MUSIC)
BURNETT: And good Monday evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
And OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news, $1 trillion. That's what China is reporting as its trade surplus tonight with the United States. That is a first -- first that it's ever been so big it tops anything before Trump's massive trade war and his promises to make China pay for it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I put a 100 percent tariff on China.
China is paying us a tremendous tariff.
China is going to be paying a lot of tariffs. China is eating the tariffs. Right.
HOST: What do you say --
TRUMP: Right now, China is paying a 104 percent tariff.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: Now, despite Trump's threats and the tariffs, of course, China buy that surplus is so far doing okay shifting its goods basically to other locales like Europe, Southeast Asia as ways to get around those tariffs. American consumers, though, are starting to pay the price. And that is in part why one indicator is flashing red tonight for the U.S. economy. And that is consumer sentiment.
It recently plunged 30 percent, near an all-time low. Now, American perceptions of the economy right now are actually worse than during the Great Depression, which is really incredible to think about. And yet, here is Trump, the president of the United States over the past few days.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The word affordability is a con job.
They use the word affordability. It's a Democrat hoax.
Look, affordability is a hoax.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Of course, when more than half of Americans say that they think the economy is already in a recession, the pain is real. And we are hours now away from a crucial Fed meeting.
Now, Trump dismisses the economic pain, but he is focused right now on the area of the economy where investors are getting really, really rich, A.I., today signing an executive order prohibiting states from regulating A.I. That's something that some of the tech titans had desperately wanted, also vowing to stop states from regulating at all.
It is an order protecting the industry for an executive order, and that is something Trump has been focused on since his first week in office, when he signed his first executive order about it called removing barriers to American leadership in artificial intelligence.
He also released an A.I. action plan called Winning the A.I. Race. And of course, he is staying as close as he can to the single most important person in A.I., someone who stands to gain the most from Trump's new order, the CEO of Nvidia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE ROGAN, HOST, THE JOE ROGAN EXPERIENCE: I was shooting arrows in my backyard and randomly get this call from Trump and he's hanging out with you.
JENSEN HUANG, CEO, NVIDIA: President Trump and I called you.
ROGAN: Yeah. It's just --
HUANG: We were talking about you.
ROGAN: He's -- (END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Just how casual conversation would go.
Look, Trump's all in on A.I. His base though is a different story. Just listen to one of the biggest voices in the MAGA movement, Steve Bannon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE BANNON, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OF TRUMP'S 2016 CAMPAIGN: I think were at the beginning of something that could be bigger than the industrial revolution and could potentially be part of it, could be short term hype, but it also could be very dangerous for a handful of on the spectrum, oligarchs determine this, and they're doing -- they're doing a race to get ahead, to get to artificial general intelligence.
Entry level white collar jobs, not blue collar, but administrative jobs, legal jobs, managerial jobs, low level scientific technological technology, the coders, all that's going to get wiped out. We're going to have a A.I. jobs apocalypse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: An A.I. jobs apocalypse. It's a sentiment that does hit close to home for many Americans. And maybe part of why American perceptions of the economy are now worse than any time since the Great Depression, and we are now just hours away from this crucial Fed meeting.
OUTFRONT now is Gene Seroka to begin our coverage. He is the executive director of the port of Los Angeles, which is the busiest port in the United States.
And, Gene, let's just start with where we began the program. The stunning number of a record trade, the China record trade surplus of $1 trillion.
[19:05:00]
Where -- I guess, where are we with tariffs right now? I mean, are they starting to hit actual consumers even only now?
GENE SEROKA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, PORT OF LOS ANGELES: Yeah, they are, Erin. And that's right. But we saw a huge run up in imports to the United States, and especially through Los Angeles over the last 18 months with folks trying to stockpile, build inventories as a hedge against tariffs. And at the same time, China and others were making deals without the United States on traditional U.S. exports.
BURNETT: All right. So then -- so we've got consumer sentiment as we talk about near record low. You're going back decades to get to where it is now and yet we're only starting to see the tariffs feed through to the consumer?
SEROKA: People held on as long as they could in the business community. They didn't know if a new announcement on policy was coming out in two hours, two days or two months. Hang on as long as you can. The auto companies are a very good example of that. And now it's just reached a breaking point.
More than half of our business at the port of Los Angeles is with small companies, middle sized importers that can't afford to raise prices because they're competing with the big companies. And now, that's changed.
BURNETT: Well, it's amazing because during the summer and people obviously inflation has been a persistent and pernicious problem for people. But during the summer, you would hear the CEO of Amazon say, well, I'm surprised that we haven't seen prices go up yet. And now here we are.
SEROKA: And CNN reported just recently, coffees up 9 percent, furniture is up, give or take about 12 percent. Shoes and clothing up 10 percent. This is real.
BURNETT: All right. So when you look at -- when you're talking to CEOs then what are they -- what are they saying right now? Again, I just put the context around it of the palpable fear that so many Americans feel, that they feel right now, the majority of Americans, they're already in a recession.
SEROKA: Still, very cautious. Companies aren't hiring. They're not investing in capital equipment. They're not making big strategic decisions, trying to see how this all lands. And it's been some time now.
We talked about this at the beginning of the year. The companies would hit the pause button. I haven't seen a release yet.
BURNETT: All right. So obviously all of this is very concerning, right. It's just in the context, especially with the fed meeting. There was something that happened today though, soybeans, which everyone may remember was very much in the headlines when Trump was talking about farms and soybeans and Steve Bannon was saying, what are you trying to help China with soybeans?
So, Trump announced a $12 billion aid package for farmers to try to end around some of this damage. And he said this:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Since my successful meeting in South Korea with President Xi, purchases have been made and soybeans are being exported out of the United States to China as we speak.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: That last part, a lot of soybeans are being exported out of the United States to China as we speak. A lot of soybeans go through your port. Is that happening as we speak?
SEROKA: No, it's not, and you just don't flip a switch. These are contracts that are signed three, six, 12 months in advance with countries like Argentina and Brazil. It also depends on harvest in the Midwest of the United States and the Central Valley of California. We're not there yet.
BURNETT: So, when he says soybeans are being exported out of the United States to China as we speak, I mean, how far are we away from that being a reality if it becomes a reality?
SEROKA: Oh, it takes until the next harvest season. Now, there is some soybean.
BURNETT: So, we're talking six months.
SEROKA: Sure, absolutely. Yeah. This doesn't happen just overnight, nor after one conversation. We also don't have the details of that framework deal to understand what the runway is going to be for soybeans.
BURNETT: Okay. So the reality -- they're very different than what he just said. But the Trump administration, there has been lately some acknowledgment that there are issues. I mean, you can't -- you can't just deny consumer sentiment. I mean, the president has come out obviously, and seemingly denied it, but others with vice president, treasury secretary have acknowledged some of the issues.
But what they have done is say, okay, maybe there are some issues right now, but everything is going to be great next year. Here they are
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: I think next year, we're going to move on to prosperity.
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think 2026 is going to be the year where this economy really takes off
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Best since -- sort of some, some faint praise there. I think next year we're going to move on to prosperity. But are you seeing the same optimism that we just heard there from J.D. Vance and Treasury Secretary Bessent?
SEROKA: Not really. I also don't see us falling off a cliff when it comes to the port as a leading indicator. Most of those purchase orders for retailers go in three, four months in advance of shipments to Los Angeles. We haven't seen a big drop off, but no huge surge.
That's a pretty good indication. With lunar New Year coming up in February, spring sales happening in April, nothing's really taking off just yet.
BURNETT: All right. Gene Seroka, thank you very much for the facts that you see them on the ground there, obviously, from the largest port in this country.
All right. My panel is here.
So, Jamal, you know, just to pick up on what Gene just said there. You heard J.D. Vance and Bessent. I think next year, we're going to move on to prosperity. Sort of. I know, obviously it's just a soundbite, but, so it's --
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He's on message.
BURNETT: Yeah. I mean, okay, how much do things have to change? And by when do they have to change to actually change voters minds and perceptions?
[19:10:04]
SIMMONS: You know, when I hear them say next year, next year, next year, it feels like when the president says, we're going to have a plan in two weeks, we're going to have a plan in two weeks. They're always promising something is coming shortly.
What we learned in the Biden administration is you can't convince people of something that they're not feeling themselves. And so there comes a -- there's a window. There's a window where you have what things can get better. And people may begin to associate that.
That window begins to close sometime around April. You get to around April, May, and you get going into November --
BURNETT: Into --
SIMMONS: -- everything settling in. And people have felt this way for a long time, Erin. And that's the problem. The longer people feel this way, the longer it takes for them to change their mind about things being better.
BURNETT: S.E.?
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, I mean, this is -- this is almost becoming Biden 2.0, not just in Trump's, I think obvious cognitive decline, but in the fatal mistake that Joe Biden and Democrats made in 2024. Looking at the American people in the eye and saying, you're wrong about how you feel. You're wrong about the economy, crime and immigration. By the way, the top three issues that matter to you most.
Immigration is not a crisis. Crime is down. The economy is strong as hell. Trump is sounding just like Biden, getting out and saying, this is a great economy. Everything's great. He's got his surrogates saying, just wait until next year.
This dismissing of the voter and telling them, in fact, that the issue that mattered most to them is a hoax, a con job, a scam. Voters are not stupid. And now, you've got Republicans openly panicking and worrying about their own elections as a result of this sort of cavalier attitude that Trump has about the economy.
BURNETT: And maybe that's part of the reason we have seen for the first time real weakness in Trump's the allegiance that he gets within the MAGA base in Washington. Right? I mean, so yeah, the Epstein vote, right? I mean, things happen. The filibuster, it goes on and.
SIMMONS: On that election cycle in November, where two Democratic governors --
BURNETT: Right.
SIMMONS: -- ran away with the election.
CUPP: They're complaining, where's our health care bill? They're complaining. They're openly complaining. You're right. Kind of like for the first time.
BURNETT: Okay. So, in that, enter Marjorie Taylor Greene, who became sort of the flag bearer in the GOP for this. So Lesley Stahl asked her last night, why does Trump have such solid support among support among Republicans? Now we're talking about areas where its weakening, you know, but the sort of why does it always come back and coalesce back together?
Here's what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I think they're terrified to step out of line and get a nasty truth social post on them. I watched many of my colleagues go from making fun of him, making fun of how he talks, making fun of me constantly for supporting him to when he won the primary in 2024. They all started -- excuse my language, Lesley -- kissing his and decided to put on a MAGA hat for the first time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So, Jamal, I mean, do you think she's right? I mean, he says, I think they're terrified to step out of line and get a nasty Truth Social post.
SIMMONS: I think they are terrified. Here's the thing, Donald Trump understands leverage. He knows what people want. He's either going to help them get it, or he's going to threaten to take it away.
And that's true whether you're a law firm that needs to get big fees, it's true if you're a big conglomerate that's trying to have a merger, its true if you're a university trying to get university grants, and it's true if you're a Republican politician who's got to compete in a primary where Donald Trump is super popular and he can go in there and either deprive you of votes or endorse somebody else against you, and nobody wants to face that wrath.
CUPP: Yeah. And I mean, she didn't complain when she was in Trump's favor and he was treating other Republicans like this. She's only mad now that she's out of -- out of favor.
But honestly, the Republicans I talked to behind the scenes privately will say they're tired of him. They're frustrated. They're exhausted. He makes promises and doesn't keep them. They have to deal with it when they go home to constituents. He doesn't really.
So, I don't know that they're as afraid of him as they used to be, as we just all said, they're for the first time, openly criticizing him.
SIMMONS: Well, what happens is, Erin, he kind of turns into a bully, right? So, he goes around to get his way and he really bangs on people. But the thing is, at some point, somebody hits the bully back and you realize the bully is human. And when that happens and everybody gangs up on the bully, the bully loses his power.
I think we're starting to see maybe not people hitting him directly, but they'll go after Hegseth because Hegseth looks like he's vulnerable. And you can talk about it. They'll go after policies because the policies don't seem to be working, but they're circling the drain around.
BURNETT: And they go after. Interestingly, they are going after, in some cases, the speaker of the House.
SIMMONS: And the speaker of the House.
BURNETT: Right. So, we were talking you got you all were talking about Elise Stefanik, Nancy Mace, the congresswoman just wrote a "New York Times" op ed, and tonight. So, it just came out.
She says, "The frustrations of being a rank-and-file House member are compounded as certain individuals or groups remain marginalized within the party, getting little say. Women will never be taken seriously until leadership decides to take us seriously. And I'm no longer holding my breath."
She went on to compliment Nancy Pelosi as a more effective house speaker than any Republican this century. I mean --
(LAUGHTER)
SIMMONS: I mean, she's right.
(LAUGHTER)
[19:15:01]
BURNETT: But I mean --
SIMMONS: I'll take that one.
BURNETT: Can I just say? I don't think this op-ed on your bingo card. I mean, although, maybe it would have been, I guess if once you have Marjorie Taylor Greene, everything starts to shift around?
SIMMONS: You know, here's what I'll say. These -- the women who are upset about how they're being treated need to stop rewarding these men for treating them poorly.
And what's been happening in the Republican Party to me, is it seems like when the Republicans will go after any policy and make any political choice without necessarily thinking about maybe what's in the interests of some of these women, who are they promoting who are going to be in leadership? What are they doing to reward them with committee assignments? And if that's not working, you know, what you cannot do is reward them with just unvarnished loyalty.
CUPP: You know, I want to believe women always. But these particular women, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Nancy Mace, they came to congress to become famous, and they were happy with the way things were going when they were getting famous. Now that Trump has turned on them a little bit, now that they're not getting what they wanted, they're making this an issue of feminism? That's insane to me.
It could be -- it could be totally true that mike Johnson is running an anti-women Republican conference. But these women are very hard to believe because they've been politically dangerous with their rhetoric. They have not been telling the truth since they got into Congress. They will openly lie to voters.
So, I want to believe everyone. These are not particularly, credible people yet.
SIMMONS: I mean, let's just look at the big policy. We know that we know where they are on abortion. Right? And we also saw what happened with the Epstein files. They were resistant against that.
So even on the big policies that seem like a lot of women kind of are in favor of, they weren't there. So, I'm not particularly mystified or surprised that they weren't taking they aren't taking care of them politically inside the caucus.
BURNETT: Well, it's interesting when you think about Epstein, right? Marjorie Taylor Greene, Nancy Mace, I mean, those were two of the -- that was where they went out and they took the stand against Trump early over the summer.
CUPP: That's my point. Do we believe them that they're genuine in that in concern or is this for leverage? Is this to get something they want? It's just hard to tell.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you both very much.
And next, Zohran Mamdani with a new message about Trump's immigration raids days after his incredibly friendly White House meeting with Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D), NEW YORK: ICE is legally allowed to lie to you, but you have the right to remain silent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Plus, a new report by "ProPublica" suggests that two of Trump's own mortgages match his administrations description of fraud.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP) BILL PULTE, DIRECTOR OF THE FEDERAL HOUSING FINANCE AGENCY: If somebody is claiming two primary residences, that is not appropriate and we will refer it for criminal investigation
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And unearthed video tonight shows Pete Hegseth slamming Trump and going on to say that the military should not follow what Hegseth calls unlawful orders. Our KFILE uncovering that video, and he is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:22:11]
BURNETT: Tonight, an OUTFRONT exclusive, KFILE uncovering even more video of Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth saying that the United States military should not follow unlawful orders. A few weeks ago, that wouldn't have been newsworthy thing to say, but now, for obvious reasons, it is.
And this time, Hegseth is taking direct aim at President Trump, specifically. This was during the 2016 campaign. Hegseth questioning Trump's toughness and questioning whether Trump would even have the United States military's back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: It's typical Trump -- all bluster, very little substance. He talks a tough game, but then when pressed on it, he's an armchair tough guy. I hate to say it, but this is a guy who said -- who said that John McCain is not a war hero, yet he sought his own five military deferments because he says big, blustery things that people want to hear.
But he goes way too far. And then when the military says, we won't follow illegal orders like torture or killing families, which is not loosening the rules of engagement, he suddenly realizes, wait, I might actually be commander in chief,
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: It's pretty incredible, right? I mean, because that same Pete Hegseth tonight is accusing six Democratic members of Congress for betraying their country, for warning troops not to obey unlawful orders. That includes Senator Mark Kelly.
Hegseth, of course, has threatened to court martial Kelly over that video.
OUTFRONT now is KFILE's Andrew Kaczynski.
And, Andrew, it is a remarkable video. I mean, especially in the context of just all the things that we are hearing and seeing Pete Hegseth say, to imagine that one person could have been just diametrically different things, is really real cognitive dissonance there. What is the context for that video?
ANDREW KACZYNSKI, CNN KFILE SENIOR EDITOR: Yeah. And well, you also nailed it in your intro saying like, this wouldn't have been a big deal, like a few weeks ago until this happened. But to understand this video, you do have to go back to 2016. Donald Trump was making a series of very controversial national security promises when running for president that include killing the families of terrorists, expanding the use of torture.
Listen to how he responded to a question at a GOP debate on just that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS HOST: Experts have said that when you ask the U.S. military to carry out some of your campaign promises, specifically targeting terrorist families and also the use of interrogation methods more extreme than waterboarding, the military will refuse because they've been trained to turn down and refuse illegal orders. So, what would you do as commander-in-chief if the U.S. military refused to carry out those orders?
TRUMP: They won't refuse. They're not going to refuse me. Believe me.
I'm a leader. I'm a leader. I've always been a leader. I've never had any problem leading people. If I say do it, they're going to do it. That's what leadership is all about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KACZYNSKI: Now, Hegseth and his other colleagues at Fox were harshly critical of Trump's comments, which he did end up walking back, by the way, saying he wouldn't tell the military to disobey unlawful orders.
But listen to more of what Hegseth then were saying about him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEGSETH: Here's the problem with Trump. He says, go ahead and kill the families. Go ahead and torture. Go ahead and go further than waterboarding. What happens when people follow those orders or don't follow them?
It's not clear that Donald Trump will have their back. Donald Trump is oftentimes about Donald Trump. And so, if you're not changing the law and you're just saying it, you create even more ambiguity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KACZYNSKI: Now, Hegseth repeated similar comments multiple times, repeatedly saying that troops would refuse illegal orders. He singled out Trump, warning that he could even put service members in legal jeopardy and create issues if troops didn't follow those orders. And that quote above, there is, he said, Trump might not have the military's back when that happened.
Take a listen to all the other times we found him saying that. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEGSETH: I got some response from vets on that saying, you're not just going to follow that order if it's unlawful.
MARIA BARTIROMO, FORMER FOX NEWS HOST: Military is not going to follow his orders.
HEGSETH: Military is not going to follow illegal orders. And so, the Trump campaign was forced to change their position and say, were going to try to change the law so that the military can operate within the law. That's a tall order also.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KACZYNSKI: And again, Erin, this all comes back to those Trump comments about members of Congress and to Hegseth's own comments, because in essence, this is exactly what Democratic members said. It's the core idea is the same, that serve members cannot carry out unlawful orders.
BURNETT: It's just really amazing. I mean, the nuance of what he said there to Maria, that the military is not going to follow illegal orders. So, they -- the campaign sources say were going to try to change the law then. I mean, just when you put that in context of what's happening now with these boat strikes, it's really stunning.
I know you've reached out to the White House and to the Pentagon for responses on all of this, this very deep reservoir of Pete Hegseth commentary. What did they say?
KACZYNSKI: So, we did not hear back this time this time from the Pentagon. We did hear back from the White House. This is what they told us. As he said last week, the military already has clear procedures for handling unlawful orders. But seditious Democrats injected ambiguity and failed to provide a single example because all of President Trump's actions have been lawful.
Instead, these lawmakers sow doubt in a clear chain of command, which is reckless, dangerous and deeply irresponsible for an elected official, Erin. So, it's going to be interesting. Weve seen that there is a story about Pam Bondi today as well, who also said the military can't follow illegal orders. So it'll be interesting to see where all this goes.
BURNETT: Well, it certainly will. And of course, in the context of what's lawful and what isn't lawful is obviously a matter of heated debate. Many obviously, in the conservative sphere. George Will and others would beg to beg to differ with her analysis.
Thank you very much, KFILE. And Hegseth is now calling for an inquiry into what he's calling the seditious six that includes Congresswoman Maggie Goodlander and Senator Mark Kelly, after they posted this video reminding American troops of what Hegseth was talking about, which is that they are duty bound to refuse unlawful orders. OUTFRONT now, Congresswoman Maggie Goodlander of New Hampshire. She's a member of the House Armed Services Committee as well, and also a former intelligence officer in the U.S. Navy Reserve.
So, I really appreciate your time, Congresswoman.
Let's just start here with Andrew Kaczynski's incredible reporting here. What's your response tonight to what you just heard there from Pete Hegseth?
REP. MAGGIE GOODLANDER (D-NH): Well, I have no earthly idea what has happened to this man who clearly understood this cornerstone principle of American law. And, Erin, I got to say, it's a simple statement of law that we made, and it's an important one to make in this moment. It's the same basic principle that we saw. Secretary Hegseth repeat again and again before he took on this important role. It's the same basic principle that Attorney General Pam Bondi stated in a brief to the United States Supreme Court. It's the same principle that we heard Justice Samuel Alito repeat in an oral argument at the Supreme Court last year.
This is an important and basic principle of law, and that our saying it unglued this president to such a degree, I think, really tells us a lot about how he thinks about the basic commitments, the basic commitment to the rule of law.
BURNETT: Congresswoman, I also want to ask you about the September 2nd strike, right, strikes, I should say, right? The follow-up strike that is at the center right now of the dispute. Right. There were two strikes on the alleged drug boat.
Trump today backtracked and said that he never actually said that the second strike video should be released. In fact, he now says he'll let Pete Hegseth decide if that video comes out.
Here's what he said today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: You said you would have no problem with releasing the full video of that strike on September 2nd, off the coast of Venezuela. Secretary Hegseth now says --
TRUMP: I didn't say that. You said that. I didn't say that. This is ABC fake news.
REPORTER: You said that you would have no problem releasing the full. Okay, well, Secretary Hegseth --
TRUMP: Whatever Hegseth wants to do is okay with me.
[19:30:01]
REPORTER: He now says it's under review. Are you ordering the secretary to release that full video?
TRUMP: Whatever he decides is okay with me. You are an obnoxious, a terrible, actually, a terrible reporter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Okay, so that's what he just said. Let's just play what he said a few days ago. Five days ago? Actually, Congresswoman, on this very same topic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I don't know what they have, but whatever they have, we'd certainly release. No problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So why do you think he about-face so quickly and blatantly that five days separate those two statements?
GOODLANDER: Look, unfortunately, this is a president who has called the affordability crisis the cost crisis that is touching the lives of people across my home state of New Hampshire, across our country. He's called this a con job. He said it's a hoax.
So, look, this is -- this fits into a pattern of behavior that is completely unbecoming of the president of the United States. Why did he change his mind?
Look, obviously, they don't want the American people to see what is in this video, but I think it's incredibly important. As a member of the House Armed Services Committee, I think it's incredibly important that we have transparency and that we get to the bottom of the facts of what happened on September 2nd, because there are a lot of questions that have not yet been answered, and we will be relentless on a bipartisan basis in getting those answers. That's exactly what we've seen in the National Defense Authorization Act, which has a specific provision about getting this video released.
BURNETT: So, on that act, and as you point out, its bipartisan, is expected to pass the House and the Senate on a bipartisan basis as well. It included something perhaps very significant, which is that lawmakers are going to hold back a quarter of headsets, travel budget until the video is actually released, and I understand this is a bipartisan effort. How much support does this have among Republicans, congresswoman? And will they hold it? Will they stand by it
GOODLANDER: Well, look, it's in this incredibly important bill. It's a bill that, you know, I hope will be. It has been for more than six decades now, every year signed into law. This is one of many important provisions, but it's one that has bipartisan support because I think there is an understanding that we need to get to the bottom of the facts of what happened on September 2nd.
But, Erin, what I'd say is, more broadly, the president and the secretary of defense have a lot of questions to answer about the legal basis and the strategic value of all the strikes that we've seen go down. And there are 22 that we know about. The president has serious questions to answer about how these strikes are actually making the American people safer.
You know, I am deeply committed to cracking down on the transnational cartels that are fueling American overdose deaths. But it is not yet clear how these strikes are helping to advance that important objective. It's also not clear why the president would just a few days ago, pardon a Honduran narco trafficker who is directly responsible for bringing 400 tons of drugs into the United States of America. How is that advancing the goal of cracking down on criminal cartels?
These are questions that this administration needs to answer to the American people and the American taxpayer.
BURNETT: Congressman Goodlander, we appreciate your time, and thank you so much.
Next, the creator of the app that tracks ICE agents is now suing the Trump administration. The same administration that has said this about him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAM BONDI, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: We are looking at it. We are looking at him and he better watch out
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, he is next.
Plus, a new report by "ProPublica" looked at Trump's past mortgages. And wow, what they found matches what Trump's team has recently called fraud.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:38:09]
BURNETT: Tonight, Zohran Mamdani, just weeks after an Oval Office meeting that Fox even joked made J.D. Vance jealous is out with this video about how to evade Trump's ICE agents
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D), NEW YORK: We can all stand up to ICE if you know your rights. ICE is legally allowed to lie to you, but you have the right to remain silent. If you're being detained, you may always ask, am I free to go repeatedly until they answer you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: This comes as the creator of an ICE tracking app, which was pulled from Apple's App Store under pressure by the Trump administration, has just filed a new lawsuit today, claiming comments like this show the Trump administration suppressed his First Amendment rights
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BONDI: We had Apple and Google take down the ICEBlock apps. Hope they continue to comply with that
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OUTFRONT now is the creator of the ICEBlock app, Joshua Aaron.
And, Joshua, it's a pleasure to talk to you again.
Obviously, tonight, a big development, this lawsuit. Why do you think you have a case against Trump?
JOSHUA AARON, CREATOR, ICEBLOCK: Well, I think we have a case because they violated our First Amendment rights. If we look back in 1963, there was a Supreme Court case called Bantam Books v. Sullivan, where they defined jawboning as unconstitutional government coercion to suppress speech. And the established that jawboning is in fact a violation of the First Amendment.
And so, what A.G. Pam Bondi, and this administration did to us was in fact jawboning. And so, you know, it kind of makes me think about my favorite quote from ben franklin when he was asked what type of government the delegates had created. His response was a republic, if you can keep it. And his point was that the survival of our Democratic republic is not guaranteed.
[19:40:00]
In fact, quite the opposite. It requires an active and informed citizenry and a lesson we should all take from that is that when we see our federal government or government in general doing something wrong, it's our duty as citizens to stand up and hold them accountable. And that's exactly what we're doing here.
BURNETT: Okay. So, our OUTFRONT legal analyst Ryan Goodman was looking at your case. And he says, look, he thinks you've got a shot with this lawsuit at success. He did warn, though, and I just wanted to read what he -- what he wrote. Joshua, he said a lot may turn on whether the DOJ can show that Apple removed the app based on the company's internal standards of safety.
And basically, this is the argument that someone could see a post on the app about, oh, hey, ICE agents are here at this Target parking lot, for example, and that somebody could see that sitting lurking on the app and then come and target those ICE agents violently. How will you make the case that your app does not pose a risk to agents by this people notifying where they are?
AARON: Well, I think it comes back to the same rhetoric that's been used since the inception of any kind of public law enforcement reporting in the digital platform. I believe it was Waze who did the first one with speed traps. And so, the local, state and federal officials, they used the exact same rhetoric.
Somehow, they figured if you could see a police officer doing a speed trap in public and you told somebody else about it, magically they were going to jump out of their car and start smashing the police car and attacking the police officer. Obviously, that's ridiculous. That doesn't happen. What do they do? They slow down and they avoid the conflict.
That was developed for and in fact, in three different places in the app. It says for informational purposes only, do not obstruct law enforcement. So, this was never intended to be anything other than an informational tool that allowed people within a five mile radius of the reported sighting to decide for themselves whether or not they wanted to approach the area in which ICE was sighted.
BURNETT: And just to be clear, and correct me if I'm wrong, but that actually was a point. It's very important to this point that you had to be within a few miles. Actually, you know, your -- your phone, GPS location of where the ICE agents were to actually see the notification and the notification would disappear after just a few hours. Correct?
AARON: That's exactly right. Yes. Anybody within a five-mile radius of a reported sighting would receive a notification, and that notification would be automatically removed in four hours' time, because odds are that ICE wouldn't be there anymore. And we didn't want to continually scare people or have them avoid a business, for example.
BURNETT: Right, which obviously is very crucial.
All right. Well, Joshua, all of this crucial and the crucial context on the news of this lawsuit. And thanks so much. It's good to talk to you again.
AARON: Thanks so much for having me back, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. And next, a new report finds that Trump's own mortgages match what his team calls fraud. The reporter who helped break that story is next.
Plus, Trump's former personal attorney calling it quits. Why she's -- what she's now saying after resigning as the acting U.S. attorney for the state of New Jersey.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:47:57]
BURNETT: Tonight, a Trump double standard. A new report from "ProPublica" revealing two of Trump's own mortgages match his description of mortgage fraud. That's their headline, according to "ProPublica's" investigation.
They write, quote, in 1993, Trump signed a mortgage for a Bermuda style home in palm beach, Florida, pledging that it would be his principal residence. Just seven weeks later, he got another mortgage for a seven-bedroom marble floor neighboring property, attesting that it too would be his principal residence. Instead, the two houses, which are next to his historic Mar-a-Lago estate, were used as investment properties and rented out.
Now, Trump is not accused of committing mortgage fraud, but that "ProPublica" reporting in that scenario does sound kind of familiar, doesn't it? It sounds like the standard the president and his administration have used to go after his political enemies, including New York Attorney General Letitia James, Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook, and Democratic lawmakers Adam Schiff and Eric Swalwell.
And the person who helped launch those investigations Bill Pulte, Trump's Federal Housing Finance Agency director.
Here is what Pulte has said the administration's standard is
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL PULTE, TRUMP'S FEDERAL HOUSING FINANCE AGENCY DIRECTOR: If somebody is claiming two primary residences, that is not appropriate and we will refer it for criminal investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OUTFRONT now, Robert Faturechi, one of the "ProPublica" reporters who broke the story.
And, Robert, I really appreciate your time. I mean, it is obviously incredible to hear the reporting that you and your team are putting out in the context of what Bill Pulte has put out there.
What did you find as you've been going through so many mortgages, including those of other members of his administration, when you got to Trump's mortgages?
ROBERT FATURECHI, REPORTER, PROPUBLICA: Yeah. So first, a little bit of context. The Trump administration has been using this allegation to go after its political enemies. They have said clearly that having -- claiming more than one primary residence is evidence of mortgage fraud. And they've used it to charge Tish James.
[19:50:03]
They've used it to try to oust a Fed governor.
What experts say is that this is a really low bar for mortgage fraud. It's usually more extreme circumstances that result in actual charges. But this is the bar the Trump administration has set. And what we found is that Donald Trump did precisely this thing. He got one primary residence mortgage for a home near Mar-a-Lago. And then several weeks later, did the same thing for a -- for a neighboring home. And in both of those mortgages, he pledged that this would be his principal residence.
And in reality, there's no evidence he ever lived there at all, let alone made it his primary home.
BURNETT: In either one of the houses.
FATURECHI: Either one.
BURNETT: Okay. So how does this then compare to the investigations or cases in some -- in some of these situations against Trump's political enemies? Obviously, you know, you mentioned some of them there, but Letitia James, Lisa Cook, Adam Schiff, and also Eric Swalwell?
FATURECHI: They're incredibly similar. I mean, look at the Lisa Cook example. President Trump tried to fire her. She's, you know, a Fed governor. This is typically an independent entity.
And you know, President Trump has wanted to bring interest rates down. And so he's been trying to get control of the Fed. And so, they tried to fire her, and he wrote a letter to her in doing so. And he specifically cited the fact that she had two principal residence mortgages within several weeks of each other. I think in her case, it was two weeks.
BURNETT: Yeah.
FATURECHI: What we found is that President Trump, you know, before he was president, did the exact same thing. In his case, I think it was six or seven weeks apart. And he specifically noted the short duration between the two mortgages as evidence that, you know, at worst, she was criminal, and at best, she was so reckless, she shouldn't be trusted to do her job. And again, we found that he did something extremely similar.
BURNETT: Yeah. I mean, the parallels are pretty incredible. There is a response from the Trump Organization to CNN. They have a response to your reporting in part. They say each mortgage expressly states that the lender may waive any occupancy requirement. It would make no logical sense for the lender to issue two mortgages in such close succession, while supposedly requiring both properties to serve as the borrower's principal residence.
That's a -- that's a commentary. I guess that could apply in any of the situations you were just discussing. I understand you actually called Trump directly to respond. What did he say to you?
FATURECHI: Right. Whenever you're writing about someone, it's obviously really important to try to hear their side of it. I called him directly. I got the first question out asking him whether the examples he's pointed to as instances of mortgage fraud were similar to what he had done himself. There was a long silence, and then the call was ended. He hung up.
So, we didn't get a response from him. But the White House did share that response. And, you know, I think what's important to point out is we are not saying that he committed mortgage fraud. We -- what our -- what our reporting has found is that what he did is what he's been saying is mortgage fraud.
BURNETT: Right, right. And of course, there's no evidence that it is mortgage fraud, right? It's just the consistency of what they have claimed it to be in the case of others.
Robert, thank you so much for sharing your reporting with us.
FATURECHI: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, Trump's former personal lawyer resigning as the acting U.S. attorney for New Jersey. And she has a message for her critics tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:57:39]
BURNETT: Breaking news, Alina Habba calling it quits, resigning as acting U.S. attorney for New Jersey. Though an appeals court already found that she was serving in her position unlawfully.
Tom Foreman is OUTFRONT tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: It's a horrible thing.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Trump is unhappy at the sudden resignation of Alina Habba, his handpicked U.S. attorney for the district of New Jersey. She is lashing out, too, blaming people on the politicized left who care more about fighting President Trump than the well-being of residents, which they serve.
ALINA HABBA, TRUMP'S FORMER PERSONAL LAWYER: I would not be standing here today if it was not for the man to my right.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Trump put into the office on a temporary basis last March, and then, when he could not win Senate support to permanently give her the job, he violated the law by keeping her there anyway, according to a federal appeals court ruling last week.
HABBA: I became known for screaming outside the courtroom steps and I am so honored to now be able to scream outside to you beautiful people to try and save this great nation and our Constitution.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Habba is one of several attorneys Trump brought into his administration after they helped in his private legal battles over his 2020 election loss, allegations of sexual misdeeds and his felony conviction for falsifying business records. Habba played a role in cases about Trump's handling of classified documents in his lawsuit against his own niece and "The New York Times" over disclosures of his tax records.
And Habba weighed in for a "Real Housewives" reality TV star who complained Facebook was suppressing her pro-Trump post. Through it all, Haber frequently claimed the justice system was out to get Trump at any cost.
HABBA: All the rules are broken and bent, and the Constitution doesn't matter when you are Donald J. Trump, unfortunately.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Now, she says she'll keep working with U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi as the Trump Justice Department pushes back on the ruling that sent Habba packing.
HABBA: We'll keep fighting. We'll keep fighting, we'll keep pushing, whatever we have to do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN (on camera): The thing is, Donald Trump has made it very clear that he doesn't like any restrictions on him putting anyone into any job, anywhere, no matter what the law says. And there are other cases kind of like this. So, Erin, I think this is not the last we're going to hear of this issue. And so far, some of the courts are not going his way.
BURNETT: All right, Tom. Tom Foreman, thank you very much.
And thanks so much as always to all of you for joining us. We'll see you back here tomorrow night.
In the meantime, it's time now for "AC360".
