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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump On Who's In Charge Of Venezuela: "Me"; Hegseth: 200 U.S. Personnel Were On Ground During Maduro Operation; Trump Warns Colombia, Cuba, Mexico, Iran, Greenland After Maduro Ouster. Aired 7- 8p ET
Aired January 05, 2026 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:17]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Breaking news, the president just moments ago doubling down, saying that he is now in charge of Venezuela as his team is, as I speak, briefing lawmakers behind closed doors, a briefing that's gone much longer than anticipated. I'm going to speak to one of the few lawmakers who's now being briefed.
Plus, is Colombia next on deck? Colombia deploying its military to its border with Venezuela as Trump directly threatens its president. The president is now taunting Trump. We'll take you there live.
And a top White House official just telling CNN that obviously, Greenland should be part of the United States. The Danish politician who famously told Trump to F off on this issue is our guest.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
(MUSIC)
BURNETT: And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news. Quote, "me". The two-letter word, that is the answer from the president of the United States. When he was asked who was in charge of Venezuela right now.
President Trump speaking to NBC's Kristen Welker just moments ago, saying, who's in charge? Me, and saying he's in no rush to see Venezuela hold new elections. His quote on that is we have to fix the country first.
Now this, of course, just leaves incredible -- incredible list of unanswered questions as we speak right now, top administration officials are holding a classified briefing with a group of bipartisan lawmakers on Venezuela that has been going on here. Now, these past hours.
It comes just hours after a defiant Nicolas Maduro made his first court appearance in New York. He was obviously seized from Caracas Saturday morning, and Maduro today says, quote, "I am Nicolas Maduro Moros. My name is President Nicolas Maduro Moros. I am president of the republic of Venezuela, and I am here kidnapped."
Now, Maduro went on to plead not guilty to federal drug and weapons charges. And of course, to state the obvious here, Maduro is accused of stealing multiple elections and overseeing a violent and massive drug organization. But there are major questions about his capture. And just that really long list of what is happening next. When Trump says he is the one now running Venezuela.
I mean, before we even know if the Trump administration has the jurisdiction to hold Maduro before we even know how team Trump is going to run a country of 30 million people with the world's largest oil reserves, Trump in some respects, even as he says "I am running Venezuela," is already moving on. There's a post from the State Department today that summarizes what appears to be Trump's new foreign policy with -- the Donroe doctrine goes a lot farther than that actually.
He says, this is our hemisphere, and President Trump will not allow our security to be threatened. But Maduro, in a country of 30 million and the Donroe doctrine in the western hemisphere may be just the start.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Colombia is very sick, too, run by a sick man who likes making cocaine and selling it to the United States, and he's not going to be doing it very long. Let me tell you.
REPORTER: So, will be an operation by the U.S., and --
TRUMP: It sounds good to me.
I think Cuba is going to be something we'll end up talking about, because Cuba is a failing nation right now.
Something's going to have to be done with Mexico.
We need Greenland from the standpoint of national security, and Denmark is not going to be able to do it.
If they start killing people like they have in the past, I think they're going to get hit very hard by the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Okay. The last they are going to get hit very hard by the United States was Iran.
So, the threats that you just heard, if you weren't keeping score was against five more countries. Those threats just over the past 48 hours that we put together there from President Trump and, you know, look at that map. As I said, this is far from the Monroe doctrine, the Donroe doctrine, right? Youve got Europe and the Middle East on the list as well. Trump threatening to strike or occupy countries in the Americas and
Middle East as well as Europe, even as his administration does not have any answers about what happens next in Venezuela.
So, who's in charge? Right? President Trump moments ago, telling Kristen Welker, the answer to that question is the two-letter word "me".
But the top Senate Republican doesn't seem to know the answer to the question.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Are you comfortable with the president saying that we are in charge of Venezuela right now?
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: Well, we're going to try and get more information about that.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: It is a pretty stunning thing, just, again, to take a step back and think about this.
We do know that Venezuela's vice president was just sworn in as the country's acting president. So, this was not regime change. It was just management change.
And as for Maria Corina Machado, the opposition leader who won the 2025 Nobel Peace Prize, the prize that Trump, of course, had said that he deserved. Two people close to the White House told "The Washington Post" and I quote, if she had turned it down, referring to the Peace Prize and said, I can't accept it because its Donald Trump's, she'd be the president of Venezuela today.
[19:05:04]
Now, Trump just denied that to NBC News, saying that Machado should have won, but that had nothing to do with his decision.
David Culver is OUTFRONT live on the Venezuelan border tonight.
And David, with the world on edge. And we look at this map, the complete instability where you are next door to where you are in the country, where you are now, the president, directly threatened by President Trump, what are you learning?
DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. There is a lot of uncertainty. You pose the question that even officials here in Colombia are asking, and that is who's in charge next door. As you point out, Delcy Rodriguez, the vice president, is now officially the interim president, backed not only by the national assembly but also by the military and the Supreme Court.
The question, though, Erin, is that she really have that much power? Does she have that much authority? That remains to be seen. What we do know, and you see some of the motorcycles and cars going in behind me equally, vehicles and people coming out of Venezuela behind me, that's entering the country and hearing from some of those folks, there's increased paranoia, repression.
Some are even describing that as soon as you enter the country, it's not unusual that you would have checkpoints. In fact, between here and, say, a city that's 15 miles away, San Cristobal, usually eight checkpoints. That's one every two miles. They have intensified their searches of individuals going through there.
One individual told us that they are looking at anybody taking pictures or selfies, and they'll detain them right away. Shows you that this is a different level of sensitivity that they're now reacting to.
The other aspect, though, that you have to look at is there is no immediate collapse of the institutions or even the individuals who are running those institutions in Venezuela. That's remained intact. The only person who's not part of that piece is Maduro himself.
And so, still, it seems to be as you talk to folks who are walking out very much like it normally is, as far as how things are traditionally run within the country, you do get a sense, though, that there's just an uneasiness altogether, a tension that is starting to grow with each passing day. And some of the folks who are willing to talk.
And there aren't many, I can tell you there are people who will say they simply don't want to address it. They don't want to acknowledge anything because they fear, even as they're leaving Venezuela for, say, a doctor's appointment or to visit family or for running errands, they have to go back in. They have to go back home. They live there, their families live there.
So, they're very well aware, Erin, that there could be repercussions. Should they say something that is seen as unfavorable. It shows you that they haven't ruled out this current government by any means, even though Washington seems to believe in President Trump that they're in control. Venezuela obviously projecting a different message.
BURNETT: I mean, really incredible what you described there, David.
David Culver is on that border, and we'll be checking back in with him throughout this hour.
Everyone is here with me.
And, Lulu, you know, incredible what he's saying, right? The people coming in and out now are afraid to talk because they have to go back in and just the -- as he's describing, this is business as usual. But to give a sense of things that there are eight checkpoints in a 15- mile road from that border to the first city in Venezuela. I mean, it is stunning.
You've reported from Venezuela for decades. We've been waiting for Secretary of State Rubio to come out of this briefing and speak to the press. We're going to take that live when he does. He hasn't. So that's running later than we had anticipated and we're not sure why.
But Trump's words tonight, who's running Venezuela -- me.
LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think as you heard there, there are a lot of questions that still have to be answered. I think that is why this briefing is running late. I mean, this is unprecedented.
How can it be that the president of the United States is running a country of 30 million people in South America without any boots on the ground? And so, what I know from covering Venezuela is that after decades of socialist rule there, it is very tightly controlled. You have the military that is very heavily involved in the daily lives of people.
You have paramilitary forces, gangs on the streets there that are loyal to the government. And beyond all that, in every neighborhood, in every hospital, everywhere, as in many socialist or communist regimes, there are local sort of enforcers that are always looking and seeing who is saying what and who is doing what, and they're informing to the government.
And so, you know, to dismantle that is going to take a lot of work. And there is no evidence that any of that is happening.
BURNETT: And, Ryan, we just found out, Pete Hegseth said today there were 200 boots on the ground during what was obviously, at this point, were learning a fierce gunfight, and dozens of people died, Cubans, it appears, who were providing the security.
But to what Lulu saying, for Trump to run this is going to require -- I mean, it would require an incredible number of American boots on the ground.
RYAN GOODMAN, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL AT DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE: It would, I think, what he might be trying to talk about is what Secretary Rubio said over the weekend, which is when he says by running, he actually means leverage and coercion. The idea that they would threaten the current regime with the armada that is being gathered outside of Venezuela, so that if the regime doesn't do what the Trump administration wants in its own foreign policy, then that's the consequences.
[19:10:03]
So, I think that's the best understanding I think I can gather from what he actually means by run the country.
BURNETT: So, you know, Richard, President Trump also said, and I should say when I said boots on the ground, it was 200 American -- Americans, right? Some of them were military, some not. So whatever word we would use for boots on the ground, he's also saying to NBC tonight about the oil companies that they're going to come in, they're going to -- in 18 months, they're going to put all this money in. And then he said, either we will or the oil is going to reimburse them.
The "we will" is what taxpayers are now going to reimburse.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE: The oil eventually will reimburse or the taxpayer in the United States, because no oil company is going to put shareholder capital at risk without legal guarantees on what they are getting into, the investment security guarantees. Simply, they're going to want to know what legal framework are they operating under.
BURNETT: But we heard the oil is going to pay for it in Iraq.
QUEST: Right. But this is about oil. Who runs to -- to be crude, pardon the pun, he doesn't give a flying about who actually runs the buses, the mechanisms, the health care in Venezuela. This is about oil. If he gets his hands on the oil he gets the government. The companies in there to generate the oil. The rest, he believes, will just follow on or not, as the case may be.
BURNETT: Ss, John, you know, you've got new reporting tonight. Maduro, as I said, he's pled not guilty. His wife has pled not guilty. We're not going to see him now for two months until his next court date.
So, he's at the MDC, metropolitan detention center in Brooklyn, where we were talking about on Saturday as he went there. Luigi Mangione, Diddy, Sam Bankman-Fried, others have or are there. El Chapo spent some time there speaking of drug lords.
So, then what happens to Maduro now?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So right now, he's in the MDC. Now just to frame that, that's about 1,300 inmates divided between two buildings east and west, male and female. They have about just under 500 staff, including guards and others there. The conditions are often bleak there. It ebbs and flows between various states of repair involving heat, hot water, things like that. So, it's not going to be what he's used to.
The times when he's able to see his wife are likely going to just be attorney visits, where the attorneys representing her and him may get them together to talk about defense strategy. That's going to take a lot of his time. His attorneys can come fairly often, and they're going to need to sit down and put a lot of conversation into this case. And the discovery that is going to happen.
You know, the average inmate is in the MDC, 411 days, which is a little more than a year, which is about the time between, you know, indictment and trial. A case like this, the amount of discovery is going to be a massive undertaking.
BURNETT: Yeah. So, Ryan, just on this, you know, we've got a judge and I know there's questions about international law, but a judge who's going to rule based on U.S. law. Are -- is there a chance that this judge says, no, you're not lawfully holding him? Or do you think that that's not reasonable?
GOODMAN: Not reasonable in a sense that this has already been tried with Manuel Noriega from the Panama intervention. BURNETT: That's precedent.
GOODMAN: That's president and the court of appeals, in fact, even upholds that Manuel Noriega could be tried, even if he was brought into the jurisdiction illegally. That's one.
And then the second argument that Noriega made is that he was the head of the state, so that as head of state, he has immunity internationally. But that should also block the prosecution domestically. That's' probably not going to fly, because what the courts do is they say, well, we're going to just listen to what the executive or the president says. And if the president says this person is not the legitimate head of state, probably game over.
BURNETT: So, Lulu, Delcy Rodriguez is now the acting president, right? They've sworn her in and she's publicly extremely defiant. Rubio -- Secretary Rubio is publicly slamming her now.
But then I hear people saying, well, no, this is all a sham. She was in on it. She's going to do what they want, but she's not going to act that way. And, you know, there's this whole argument being made.
When are we going to know what the truth is?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Well, we don't know what the U.S. government actually wants. Weve talked about the oil, but, you know, that isn't something that just you turn a switch and all of a sudden it starts gushing out and everyone starts celebrating. It's in a massive state of disrepair.
You know, I've been to some of the oil facilities in Venezuela. They are falling apart. And so, what is the actual objective in the short term? It's clearly not regime change. There hasn't been any support of Maria Corina Machado, who is the opposition member.
She is beloved. She does have an enormous amount of support, both within Venezuela and among the diaspora. And so, if it's not democracy and the oil isn't going to happen right away, then it really is unclear what are we going to understand about what this government can do to satisfy the United States.
BURNETT: And so, let's -- okay. Now, Richard, I'm just going to say that it's really all about China and that the U.S., which is already the largest oil supplier, doesn't actually care about having the world's largest reserves, Venezuela's, because they're nasty, thick crude that we don't even want to process.
[19:15:07]
But it's about making sure China doesn't get it.
Okay, if that's what its really about, how -- how quickly does such a thing happen? We basically took it over to say, well, now it's ours, it's not yours.
QUEST: Right. And remember, China, of course, is the largest investor. China and other European countries have got their own oil companies in there that have got facilities and resources. And China is now going to lose access to all that oil that it has been buying and using.
So, to the extent that it has stuck two fingers up at China -- yes, but China will come back in a different way. China is going to use exactly the same principle. You know, they're not stupid. They're going to use exactly the same diplomatic principle that has been used here for Taiwan, for the South China Sea, for the straits, for all, for the Spratly Islands, all those areas in their sphere of influence, they are going to say, right, U.S., all right, we'll worry about the oil later. But at the moment, economically, it's all ours.
Donald Trump thinks he's played a really clever game here. He thinks he has secured us oil for the next generations when it's still going to be important and useful. What, of course, it's going to take us decades to get it on stream. The oil company is going to want massive guarantees before they'll even consider putting shareholder capital at risk.
BURNETT: So. So, Lulu, then what happens? I mean, at what point are we going to be able to tell if Delcy Rodriguez actually is going to retain power?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: You know, what's happening right now is very interesting because it's not only Delcy Rodriguez. You have a lot of other people that surrounded the Maduro regime who were considered like sort of the powers behind the throne. The others, you know, these are people with actual prices on their head that haven't been brought to the United States. But clearly there's a sort of Damocles sort of hovering over the lot of them.
And that, I think, is the leverage that they are thinking that they have. If you don't do what we want, we're going to -- we're going to pull a Maduro on you and you're going to find yourself in a U.S. prison.
But, you know, again, what are the benchmarks? We haven't heard this from the administration. Do they want political prisoners to be released? Do they want to see some sort of ejecting Cubans? You know, the country's full of Cuban agents. I mean, is that what they want to go see?
What is it? What are -- what are the actual benchmarks so that we can understand what exactly the United States is doing there. And the American people need to understand what America is doing there.
BURNETT: And yet the American people are told that maybe the president of Colombia is going to be coming here and --
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Democratically elected.
BURNETT: Mexico -- and Mexico seems to be aligned and not be crossed, but they're walking up and dancing all around it with Sheinbaum. I mean, where do we go from here?
MILLER: So speaking as a former senior U.S. intelligence official, and following Lulu's point what people are saying is causing confusion. You listen to the vice president there, you listen to what the president is saying here. You see the disconnect.
The answer to when are we going to know what's going to happen there is watch the behavior. And, you know, when you talk about Mexico or Colombia, we have to remind ourselves, to Richard's point, it's not really about the narcotics. I mean, this -- these court papers, this is a great case. Worked very hard on a lot of incredible evidence. And you can read between the lines who the --
BURNETT: Originally filed in 2020, right?
MILLER: Exactly. It's been going on for years. But it could have gone on for more years. The point here is, if it was about the narcotics, charging someone with massive narcotics distribution and weapons possession and supporting all these cartels is exactly what the president of the United States of America just pardoned the president of Honduras for.
BURNETT: Yeah.
MILLER: If it was about the drugs, that wouldn't have happened. This is about strategic interests and oil, and it's crystal clear.
BURNETT: Yeah, yeah. Well, it's also clear it's not about democracy.
All right. Thank you all very much.
And next, we have more breaking news from the Trump interview. He's telling NBC that he is now not ruling out a second strike on Venezuela.
Also breaking, Senator Mark Kelly firing back tonight after Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth threatened to target his rank and his retirement. A top legal scholar tells us Kelly has a strong legal case against Hegseth.
And the administration just briefing lawmakers on Venezuela. So we've been talking about that, that that seemed to go longer than expected. We're waiting to hear from Rubio.
In the meantime, the top Democrat on the intel committee, part of the Gang of Eight, just briefed. Jim Himes is going to be with us in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:23:59]
BURNETT: Breaking news, there were nearly 200 Americans on the ground in Venezuela as part of the operation to seize Nicolas Maduro and his wife. The Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth sharing that detail that was unknown until he shared that moments ago. He added that Maduro and his wife only became aware of what was happening about three minutes before they were captured. And of course, President Trump has said that they basically snatched Maduro as he was trying to open a heavy steel door to a safe room. OUTFRONT now, Democratic Congressman Jim Himes. He is the top Democrat on the Intel Committee, one of only a few members of Congress who have received a classified briefing on Venezuela from top administration officials and, congressman, a briefing which I'm just going to, you know, to make the point very clear, that happened today is happening right now, that that did not happen before, even though they indicated today that they had told some of the companies that may be involved in this beforehand.
But you learned about this through the media.
REP. JIM HIMES (D-CT): Yeah.
BURNETT: So, you learned about it the same as us?
HIMES: Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, the administration made no effort to tell anyone in, in congress in advance of what ended up being a remarkably successful -- as a military and tactical airstrike.
[19:25:08]
BURNETT: Yes.
HIMES: But which could have gone horribly wrong. And imagine if the Congress woke up and it had gone wrong, and we hadn't even been --
BURNETT: Well, I mean, just to make -- to make your point come home. While it was incredibly executed there, dozens of Cubans died.
HIMES: Yes.
BURNETT: And Stephen Miller just said the number is 32, and he thinks it's a lot higher than they're admitting, that there was a massive gunfight.
HIMES: Yeah.
BURNETT: And you're saying the number is higher? I mean, a lot of people died.
HIMES: Yeah.
BURNETT: Which means that there was a real risk that Americans could have died.
HIMES: Yeah, there always is. There always is. And that's why when I hear the president talk about a second round of strikes, that's a lot more risk. And. And for what purpose? Right?
I mean, okay, I don't happen to think it's a good idea for the United States to be taking out leaders, bad though they may be. Thinking back to Afghanistan, thinking to Iraq, thinking about Libya. But a second military strike to do what? Because now we don't like the acting president of Venezuela?
You know, until we get in and empty the shark tank, all we've done is take the biggest shark out of the tank. And I just don't know what that gets you.
BURNETT: Okay, so you've in this briefing, did they have any answers to the questions of who's running Venezuela? I mean, the president just told NBC, "me". But do they have any answers to these questions?
HIMES: As you might imagine. And Marco Rubio said this on the day of the strike, he is in communication or was in communication with then vice -- the vice president.
BURNETT: Delcy Rodriguez, yeah.
HIMES: Delcy Rodriguez. But what does that mean? What does it mean for Delcy Rodriguez? If the security services and the many, many people with guns and a stake in the corruption decide that Delcy Rodriguez is now doing the work of the United States.
BURNETT: The military, yeah.
HIMES: The military, the security services, the Cubans, the people who benefit from the oil, wealth and corruption. They're going to have a say here.
BURNETT: So does the secretary of state as he's briefing you, does he -- does he have answers to these questions? I mean, I suppose there's two layers to this one. Does he have answers? And two, how does he square the circle of the fact that what he has been saying is different than what Trump is saying?
HIMES: Well, so it's -- it's not so much a question of whether he has the answers. No, he doesn't have the answers because he doesn't know what's going to happen tomorrow or the next day.
BURNETT: Yeah.
HIMES: What's really concerning is that he doesn't have a plan. And this is, of course, what hurt us in Iraq and Afghanistan, Libya, there's no plan for the day after. Now, you could imagine a plan.
You know, the Nobel Prize winner who the president completely delegitimized. You could have brought her in. We've tried that before. You could have surrounded her with enough security and said, this is the legitimate president of Venezuela. That may not be a good plan, but it's a plan.
What we don't have right now is any plan other than to hope that --
BURNETT: Delcy Rodriguez is going to do what Trump tells her to do.
HIMES: -- is going to somehow do magical things that we want her to do, even though we have no ability to protect her. And meanwhile, of course, Donald Trump is threatening her.
BURNETT: So, when you get -- okay, a classified briefing, I mean, obviously definitionally, that means there's some things you can and can't share. But, when Rubio says, I've talked to her, you know, the implication being and Trump says she's going to -- she has told us he said this in a press conference, she's going to do everything we want.
Then she comes and basically says, go jump off a bridge.
HIMES: Right.
BURNETT: Okay. And then people say, well, that's performative. She actually is going to do what they want, but she doesn't want the security services to know it. I mean, does anyone deserve any kind of credit for any kind of a grand plan like that? Or is that just --
HIMES: Like anyone else on this planet, Delcy Rodriguez is going to do what she needs to do to stay alive, and she is now surrounded by a lot of Venezuelan men who have their livelihoods wrapped up in the regime of Maduro. Maduro is gone from it.
BURNETT: Yeah.
HIMES: And you think Delcy Rodriguez is going to say to those men with guns, yeah, I'm doing what Donald Trump and Marco Rubio want me to do. It's -- it's not -- it's not just not a plan. It's sort of insane on the face of it.
BURNETT: Okay. So, John Thune, the majority leader, obviously, wasn't briefed either, as far as we understand. No one was. But he's defending the administration's decision not to brief, and not to brief you and the other members of the gang of eight, right? You're in the Gang of Eight. So, if they were going to brief eight people, they would -- they would brief, all of you.
Obviously, Trump had said the other day, or Rubio or whoever it was that press conference that you guys would have leaked it. So that's why they're not going to bother to tell Congress.
What do you say to John Thune specifically then, when he says it would have been ill-advised to brief the Gang of Eight?
HIMES: It makes me sad to hear a leader in the Congress, a co-equal branch of government, say, yes, Mr. President, take away my privileges, take away my prerogatives. And sadly, it is just the thing that we've seen over and over and over again, which is most Republicans in the House and the Senate wake up every morning wondering what they can do to prove their loyalty to Donald Trump.
John Thune is the Senate leader, and he's saying, don't worry, Mr. President, I'm not going to be a check or a balance to you. Do what you want and I won't raise hell about it.
BURNETT: One final question here on the -- because -- obviously, Trump just told NBC that he's -- second strike is possible. Did Rubio say anything about that? And whether there's plans for a second strike or, God knows, a strike on Colombia?
HIMES: He didn't say anything about that. But this is something that needs to be followed up on.
[19:30:00] There have been other gang of eight meetings with Marco Rubio in which he denied that any of the planning or operational steps were being taken towards what happened 48 hours ago.
So, I'm not sure I trust what Marco Rubio is telling the Gang of Eight, because he told us that this was not a contemplated option.
BURNETT: So do you think he directly lied or was he that out of --
HIMES: You know, if I -- and I didn't have an opportunity to push him on this. But I know his answer. His answer would be, well, the Pentagon does lots of planning, and it was only at the very last minute that the president gave the authority to go ahead. That is maybe a technically, reasonable answer, but it completely flies in the face of the spirit of what a former Senator Marco Rubio, should know the Congress deserves.
BURNETT: Right, right. Well, the U.S., of course, on the precipice of something so significant, it's amazing to think Congress wasn't a part of it.
Thank you very much.
And next, Colombia's president taunting Trump as the president has threatened to target Colombia next. We are live in Colombia along the Venezuelan border, where troops are gathering tonight.
Plus, Trump doubling down now on threats to take Greenland as Americas closest allies are pushing back there. The Danish politician who first stood up to Trump on that is our guest.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:35:07]
BURNETT: Breaking news, President Trump not ruling out a second military incursion into Venezuela, warning the acting president, Delcy Rodriguez, that if she stops cooperating with the United States, quote, we're prepared to do it. We anticipated doing it, actually.
Trump then threatening the neighboring country of Colombia, that it may be next. And it comes as the Colombian president, Gustavo Petro, taunts Trump to quote, come get me. I'm waiting for you.
Well, David Culver is there OUTFRONT on the border of Colombia and Venezuela.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CULVER: Let's get in here. You got it.
CULVER (voice-over): This is the show of force Colombian commanders want the world and perhaps mostly Washington, to witness.
CULVER: And so here it is now evening, going into late in the night. And we're about to see some of the many patrols that have sprawled out across the 1,300-plus miles of border between Colombia and Venezuela.
CULVER (voice-over): The government says it's now deployed some 30,000 Colombian troops to its eastern border.
CULVER: Military commanders stressed that their priority is security and stability more than anything else. It may look like an escalation, but they say this is about being prepared for whatever situation might unfold. But you can't look past the timing, and that is all of this happening as scrutiny from Washington intensifies.
CULVER (voice-over): At all hours, the Colombian military increasingly present here.
CULVER: What is the priority right now?
CULVER (voice-over): Pushing back on claims from the Trump administration that they're not doing enough to stop criminal organizations and drugs from crossing the border?
LT. COL. JHONNATAN ARCOS, COLOMBIAN ARMY: The deployment of troops is to guarantee the sovereignty of the territory.
CULVER (voice-over): Adamant, they're focused on guaranteeing and defending Colombia's sovereignty and primarily its citizens.
ARCOS: For the defense of the territory and especially the defense of Colombians.
CULVER: You can see steady traffic coming in from Venezuela into Colombia. This is the Simon Bolivar Bridge, takes you right into Venezuela.
CULVER (voice-over): Or out of Venezuela -- in Maria's case, if only for a couple of hours.
She's got a doctor's appointment in Colombia.
CULVER: She says everything's calm.
CULVER (voice-over): She's among those still living in Venezuela, willing to tell us on camera she's happier with Maduro gone.
CULVER: She says as soon as Maduro became president, everything just went downhill from there. So, she's hoping it can revert back to the way it was, as she says before.
CULVER (voice-over): In a seemingly forgotten, tucked away mountain community here in Cucuta, Colombia, many we meet dream bigger for Venezuela's future.
CULVER: And this is a community that's basically a migrant settlement.
She thinks there are more Venezuelans in this community than Colombians. Mind you, we're in Colombia.
CULVER (voice-over): This family left Venezuela two years ago, intentionally keeping close to their homeland.
CULVER: Do you want to go back?
She would love to go back.
CULVER (voice-over): And yet, before returning, she, like most here, want to see lasting changes take shape.
CULVER: Do you think the U.S. can change things in Venezuela?
She does think the U.S. actually can contribute not to do everything, but to at least make a better Venezuela, as she sees it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CULVER: You can get a sense of that show of force behind me, Erin, on the Columbia side of the border. Just a short time ago, our colleague here, Abel Alvarado, was speaking with the defense minister of Colombia.
And one thing that was relayed to him was quite interesting. It was a message to Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth. Essentially, the defense minister here saying to Secretary Hegseth, soldier to soldier, I invite you to come to Colombia to see the efforts that are being taken to try to stop the drugs and crime from spilling over the border. It's an effort from the military leader here, at least, to try to lower the temperature that we've seen between President Petro and President Trump and try to refocus the attention not on the nations going at each other so much as the criminal organizations who they try to say and stress are the real enemy here.
BURNETT: David Culver, thank you very much. Incredible. And of course, just the fact that Colombia wants to have that show of force for the United States right now.
I want to go now to the retired Lieutenant General Ben Hodges, outspoken on this, the former commanding general for the U.S. Army in Europe, and Brett McGurk, who served in top national security positions under four presidents from both parties.
[19:40:03]
And that includes President Trump.
So, I'm grateful to both of you and your perspective in this historic moment.
Brett, you know, it -- it's Venezuela, right? And then there's Colombia. And then there's Cuba that Trump has warned, and Mexico, and then that not even to bring in Iran and Greenland. Is it at all clear to you, Brett? And again, your resume, national security positions in four presidents, including Trump.
So, you've seen it all. And -- is it clear to you where this is going to end? BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, no. But look, on the military instrument of power, I think you have to be careful and deliberate. And I think a limited objective, like what we did the other night and again, our troops performed, performed tremendously heroically, effectively. That's one thing.
Trying to expand these missions is extremely dangerous. You get into mission creep scenarios. And one thing, Erin, and that report really spoke to it. You know, these are all two very different countries. In Colombia, we have deep security and intelligence ties, military and intelligence ties.
The president of Colombia, a good news for President Trump, because the president of Colombia will be out of power this year. He has a term limit. There will be an election in May for a new president. And Petro cannot continue in office. So there actually will be a change.
And I think the rhetoric you see in Colombia now from Petro is playing to his domestic political base, trying to help his party in those coming elections. Again, every country is different.
Look, I just -- I have found that when you have a successful military operation, these operations are so risky. It is so tense inside the Situation Room, let alone on the ground or the operations are taking place. When it goes well, that is when you have to be very disciplined and careful about not expanding objectives.
So, I would really focus here on Venezuela, try to get that right, because the road ahead is going to be extremely, extremely difficult.
BURNETT: Well, and we just heard from a member of the Gang of Eight, right, saying that they've given no roadmap at all for what ahead means, right? That that hasn't been defined at least as, as he said, Secretary of State Rubio briefed him just now.
General Hodges, in that context, and with Brett saying, Stephen Miller just told Jake Tapper that the United States involvement in Venezuela. And I want to quote what Stephen Miller told Jake is, quote, an ongoing military operation. Now, the administration had earlier said that Maduro -- this was a law enforcement issue, that they got him and that that that was it. Okay?
But Stephen Miller just characterized this as an ongoing military operation. How significant are those words, General?
LT. GENERAL BEN HODGES (RET.), FORMER COMMANDING GENERAL, U.S. ARMY EUROPE: Well, first of all, we're making the same mistake we've made time and time again, which is to do the easy part the removal of the leader, like we did with Maduro, without having planned or thought all the way through what comes next. That's -- that is the hard part, exactly, as Brett said. And when Mr. Miller talks about, well, we've got the U.S. military outside ready to come back in whenever in order to apply leverage on, in this case, Venezuela.
So, you're talking about repeated operations. And I think the test of legality is going to be really difficult. So, the potential of putting our military in the position of having to execute, perhaps unlawful orders over and over. I mean, are we -- are we going to go to the congress each time we want to send military back into Venezuela? I think Mr. Miller is saying they don't intend to do that.
BURNETT: Yeah. Well, and they didn't -- they didn't this time and it certainly doesn't seem that they have any indication of doing that.
You know, Brett, one thing that Trump said, obviously, was that Delcy Rodriguez has said she'll do everything we want. And ever since then, she has done everything she can to say that she won't do that. And we don't know why. We don't know what is really going on here.
But there is this new video and OUTFRONT that I wanted to share with you in that context, Brett. And this is the ambassadors from China, Russia and Iran, okay? They are among the first to congratulate Delcy Rodriguez today in Venezuela, when she was sworn in as the acting president, right? And these are the three countries that Trump essentially wants to kick out and say, no, Venezuela's ours because it's in our hemisphere. Get out of there. All three of them. Hezbollah, too, but and specifically China.
What do you see when you see this video? Right. The first greetings came from these three countries.
MCGURK: Well, President Putin of Russia has invested massively in Venezuela. You know, tens of billions of dollars of foreign oil payments to PDVSA, the Venezuelan state oil company, has been going on for years, plus military supplies. Those military systems obviously did not perform very well.
And so potentially, this is a massive loss actually for President Putin. And I do not subscribe to the view that this might further empower Putin to engage in Ukraine. He does not need a permission structure, obviously, to do that. This has been going on for some time.
[19:45:00]
So I think, in fact, this demonstration of American power, if it is limited, if we don't get into mission creep, can actually have a deterrent effect, both in Ukraine and also with the Chinese and Taiwan. We have to see.
However, if this is president Trump saying we are now a hemispheric power and we therefore are going to pull back from other parts of the world, we are not going to focus on supporting the Ukrainians. And when it comes to Taiwan, there would be critical summits with Xi Jinping going on first half of this year. That is really also on the table.
The Trump administration just actually approved the largest arms sale to Taiwan ever. That is what you need for deterrence. Deterrence is the art of persuading an adversary that the cost of action will significantly outweigh any potential benefit, and I think that is far more important than whatever lesson they might be drawing here. Overall, though, taking Venezuela off the table for Russia, if that's
how this goes, that's a massive loss for Putin. He already lost Syria, which is his other major investment outside his borders. And then obviously Ukraine. And we have that playing out this week.
BURNETT: General Hodges, final word.
HODGES: Well, first of all, Russia once again demonstrates they're not a very reliable ally for anybody. I mean, they did not help Armenia or Syria and now Venezuela. So, I agree with Brett on that.
But I still am very worried that the administration is looking at the U.S. military when the president says he's not scared of boots on the ground. And Mr. Miller's kind of cavalier about using the military over and over. All the things that are needed for running a country and the state department were destroyed at the beginning of the administration. The different agencies that the administration would want to use, that the military would want to use to help run Venezuela. Those have been dismantled.
BURNETT: Yeah. Well, that is a pretty stunning thing when you think about that. The significance of what that might be.
Thank you both very much. Grateful.
And next, Trump now talking about Greenland in a big way. So, what does the Danish politician who had originally told Trump to F off about that? What does he have to say about it? By the way, he's not alone now. Others, maybe not using those words, but there's a huge stand up going on, on this across Europe.
Plus, Pete Hegseth moving to reduce Senator Mark Kelly's rank and retirement pay after Kelly had told troops that they can refuse to carry out illegal orders. Top military legal expert just explained to OUTFRONT what kind of a case Kelly has against Hegseth.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:50:19]
BURNETT: Breaking news, Greenland -- is it next?
Here's Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We need Greenland from a national security situation. It's so strategic. Right now, Greenland is covered with Russian and Chinese ships all over the place. We need Greenland from the standpoint of national security. And Denmark is not going to be able to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Tonight, some of America's strongest allies are fighting back against that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEIR STARMER, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Greenland and the kingdom of Denmark must decide the future of Greenland, and only Greenland and the kingdom of Denmark.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And Keir Starmer rules the U.K. Of course, leaders in Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden all NATO countries as well, also supporting Denmark and Greenland.
OUTFRONT now, the Danish member of European parliament, Anders Vistisen. Famously, when all of this started, he told Trump to F off over his threats against Greenland, and maybe that had seemed flip at the time. But now here we are. It's deadly serious.
So, Anders, Trump talking about Greenland again, and you heard what he said. He said, we need Greenland. It's so strategic. We need Greenland.
And this comes hours after, you know, he sent 200 Americans into Venezuela, captured the leader and brought him into New York to serve trial, and now says that he, Donald Trump, is the one ruling Venezuela.
Do you think he's really serious now about Greenland in that context?
ANDERS VISTISEN, DANISH MEMBER OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT: I think the two situations are quite different from each other. When we're talking about Greenland, we're not talking about a drug run dictatorship. We're talking about a NATO allied country, NATO territory, that belongs to a friendly nation that is a very close allies to the -- to the USA and have been so for more than 70 years.
So, of course, it is appalling and it is very frankly, stupid to continue to talk about capturing NATO country. But we don't see it as very realistic that we have U.S. troops, entering into the capital of Nuuk anytime soon, though.
BURNETT: One of Trump's senior aides, though, just a few moments ago, Stephen Miller, spoke out. I don't know if you heard this, Anders. So given what you just said, I just want to play what Stephen Miller said for you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MILLER: The real question is, by what right does Denmark assert control over Greenland? What is the basis of their territorial claim? What is their basis of having Greenland as a colony of Denmark?
The United States is the power of NATO. For the United States to secure the arctic region, to protect and defend NATO and NATO interests -- obviously, Greenland should be part of the United States. Nobody's going to fight the United States militarily over the future of Greenland.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: What's your response to that, Anders?
VISTISEN: My response is that Denmark landed on Greenland before anyone ever thought about making the United States of America. So, by that logic, the United States of America should go back to being a colony of the United Kingdom. But I don't see that as very realistic outcome.
And I think again and again, we are seeing this administration talking about Greenland with no knowledge about the history of the place, with no knowledge about the facts on the ground. When Denmark sold what is today the U.S. Virgin Islands, the United States signed a treaty with Denmark 100 years ago that we had -- that they, the United States of America, accepted Danish full control over the territory of Greenland.
So, if the United States administration is in doubt, who gave us that territory -- they can just go back and look into their own records and they see that it is among all the other countries in the world, the United States have said that Greenland belongs to the territory of Greenland, belong to the kingdom of Denmark.
BURNETT: So tonight, and I think that bringing up that treaty of the Virgin Islands is fascinating. And I thank you for that. Trump is mocking Denmark's efforts on Greenland security in. Hears something specific derogatory that he said. Let me play this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You know what Denmark did recently to boost up security in Greenland? They added one more dogsled. It's true. They thought that was a great move.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: One more dog sled. And then Katie Miller, who obviously is married to Stephen Miller, whom I just played to, you posted that map of Greenland on social media and the colors of the American flag right after the Venezuela military operation. And the word she wrote was "soon".
So, you know, when Trump makes a comment like they added one more dogsled and they thought that was a great idea, and she posted that picture. Obviously, this is insulting.
[19:55:05]
But I guess the real question, Anders, is what can Denmark do about it?
VISTISEN: We already decided to ramp up military spending in the Arctic region significantly. Many, many billions of Danish crowns. But let's be frank, what have American done? They have closed over 30 bases in Greenland because they didn't find it military significance to be there, to the point where there is only one American base left. So, if Trump thinks that Danish security in Greenland is ridiculous,
it just goes to point that America doesn't care about the Arctic region because they decided unilaterally to draw back from Greenland to the point where their presence in Greenland is almost nonexistent. So, to taunt the Danish special forces, who protects Greenland is very easy, but I would like to see how many American soldiers who can cope with these Arctic temperatures and its very harsh environment. I don't think it's something that you get many, many soldiers to do from the American continent.
BURNETT: Anders, thank you very much. It's good to talk to you again. Anders Vistisen, the Danish parliament -- thank you.
And next, Senator Mark Kelly with a message for Trump tonight after Pete Hegseth is trying to punish him by targeting his rank and his retirement.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Also breaking tonight, Hegseth versus Kelly. The defense secretary announcing the pentagon is moving to cut the retirement pay and reduce the retirement rank for the Democratic senator and retired navy captain Mark Kelly. That coming in response to the video, right, that you're looking at here, where Kelly and five other Democrats reminded members of the American military that they can refuse to follow illegal orders, something that Pete Hegseth himself had done years before.
The Democrats were accused, though, by both Hegseth and Trump of seditious behavior.
Now, Kelly flew 39 combat missions during Operation Desert Storm, and he is not staying quiet now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): Donald Trump -- he deferred the draft five times because he had bone spurs. Four generations of service to this country earns me the right to speak. Five deferments earns nothing
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Todd Huntley, a top military legal expert at Georgetown Law, tells OUTFRONT tonight that Kelly has a solid legal case against Hegseth, telling us Hegseth's actions are, quote, not warranted and merely being done for political retribution.
Thanks for joining us.
"AC360" starts now.
