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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump DOJ's Probe Of Fed Chair Backlash, Treasury Chief Unhappy; "Federal Invasion": Minnesota Sues Trump Admin, Braces For 1,000 More Agents; U.S. State Department To Americans In Iran: "Leave Iran Now". Aired 7-8p ET
Aired January 12, 2026 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:26]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
The breaking news, Trump versus the Fed chair. Trump's own treasury secretary unhappy over Trump's DOJ going after Jerome Powell. And one of his most loyal voices asks, what's the case here?
Plus, a, quote, "federal invasion". That's what Minnesota officials are accusing the Trump administration of tonight, as they send an additional 1,000 officers to Minneapolis in the wake of Renee Good's death.
Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, who represents Minneapolis, is our guest tonight.
And breaking, leave now. The State Department warning any American citizens in Iran to get out now, as new video reveals a terrifying picture of bloodshed taking place at protests.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
And OUTFRONT tonight, we begin with breaking news. Trump's inner circle cracking the DOJs unprecedented investigation into Fed Chairman Jerome Powell meeting serious resistance from Trump's own treasury secretary, who is a stout loyalist on economic issues.
Our Kristen Holmes is reporting that Scott Bessent, Secretary Bessent, has told people that he is not happy with the DOJ's decision to go after Powell. The case against him is supposedly misleading Congress about what is now a $2.5 billion renovation of Fed headquarters.
But what is the investigation about? I mean, it's unclear. We do know that that is vastly over budget. Powell has explained. He's talked about that. He's testified to it.
He said it's because of the age of the building, its historic registry nature, the cost of supplies and labor, which have gone up in part because of tariffs. But to be clear, this renovation as a premise is a fig leaf for Trump. He doesn't like Powell and he wants him out.
Even one of MAGA's most loyal voices is calling that out tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN SHAPIRO, HOST, THE BEN SHAPIRO SHOW: What is the case here? Again, just to put it out there, the DOJ should not be used for political purposes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I mean, just to put it out there, he's right. And more Republicans are saying this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: I want to see them operate, in an independent way, free of politics.
SEN. STEVE DAINES (R-MT): I support the independence of the -- of the -- of the Fed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And Senator Thom Tillis, who has really been standing up lately, tweeted, "It is now the independence and credibility of the Department of Justice that are in question. And Congressman French Hill just releasing a statement that reads, pursuing criminal charges relating to his testimony on building renovations at a time when the nation's economy requires focus, creates an unnecessary distraction.
All those things are just basic statements of fact. Yet the White House is not backing down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: As for whether or not Jerome Powell is a criminal, that's an answer the department of justice is going to have to find out, and it looks like they intend to find that out
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: As to whether Jerome Powell is a criminal, I mean, okay, Trump is denying, though, that he knows anything about this investigation. He told NBC News, quote, I don't know anything about it. But of course, it was just 15 days ago that he tipped his hand pretty clearly when he said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're thinking about bringing a gross incompetence, what's called gross incompetence lawsuit. It's gross incompetence against Powell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And Trump has made no secret of what he thinks about Fed Chair Powell. He wants him gone because the fed has not raised interest rates as quickly. And as soon as Trump wanted. And this DOJ investigation, while it is, of course, maybe a red line for some Republicans in the way other things weren't, it is just at the end of a long, long line of attacks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We have a lousy fed chair.
He's a bad guy. He's not a smart guy, but he's a bad guy.
He's a fool. He's a stupid man.
He's truly incompetent. He's a stiff. He's a knucklehead.
He's either evil or stupid.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Powell has never respond and -- responded in kind to any of that over months and months and months. He has never once acknowledged it, and he is not backing down from this moment. But of course, they get this subpoena. They're informed of this investigation on Friday. He took a couple of days to think about how he was going to respond to it in this case, and then released an extraordinary two-minute video in which he slammed the investigation and pointed the finger directly at the president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEROME POWELL, FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN: The threat of criminal charges is a consequence of the Federal Reserve setting interest rates based on our best assessment of what will serve the public, rather than following the preferences of the president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:05:01]
BURNETT: Right there, no mincing words. This was about the independence of the Federal Reserve. And that statement, and the way Powell delivered it, is actually still a sign of incredible restraint. According to "The Wall Street Journal," Powell was notified about the investigation on Friday, as I said, and he spent the weekend huddled with advisers. We understand they weighed how to respond, and it's really important to say this up until now, it's not just that Trump had said all those pejorative and nasty personal attacks.
It's that no matter what he said about that or interest rates, Powell never once took the bait. When asked about the president's attacks, was on Fed calls. When he would take reporter questions, he'd be asked. He never once engaged.
In fact, the only other time that you actually even saw him respond to anything Trump did was that unprecedented fact check of Trump. When Trump slammed the cost of the fed building renovation with inaccurate accusations, and this was just sort of something that happened on Powell's face in real live time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It looks like it's about $3.1 billion, went up a little bit or a lot. So, the 2.7 is now 3.1, and --
POWELL: I'm not aware of that.
TRUMP: Yeah, it just came out.
POWELL: And I haven't heard that from anybody at the Fed. You just said you just added in a third building is what that is. That's a third building.
TRUMP: But it's a building that's being built.
POWELL: No, it's been -- it was built five years ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right. So that was, you know, in the moment he couldn't -- he couldn't help himself. But to crack the facts.
And look, the reality of all of this is right is that Americas economy is the greatest economy in the world, in no small part because of the U.S. Federal Reserve, and that it is independent and that investors around the world put their money in U.S. dollars and U.S. markets because they trust that they are fair and that they are not under political control, as happens in so many other countries, and is led by someone who is not swayed by politics.
And of course, if that were to change, the damage could be significant, to state the very least, I'm understating it.
Just listen to my friend Jim Cramer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM CRAMER, CNBC HOST: I think only a hack would want the job now. I think if you go after the Fed chairman for decorating -- for building a project that he obviously had nothing to do with, he's not a general contractor, Carl, what happens is you basically just say, you know what, I'm going to take the Fed chair and I want to do exactly what the president says, because that's why I've been appointed. If you go to the program, it's very possible you'll be criminally indicted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Kristen Holmes is OUTFRONT. She's live outside the White House.
And, Kristen, you know, just extraordinary. Amidst so many extraordinary events that are happening, both large and seemingly small -- what are you hearing about Scott Bessent, the treasury secretary, and how unhappy he is about what Trump's doing here? KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. And just
to touch on your point, I will get to Scott Bessent one second. But to your point on the extraordinary here, while it is stunning development and it's not all that surprising, this seems to have been in the works for quite some time. If you look back in July, we saw Russell Vought, the head of Office of Management and Budget, essentially writing an open letter to Powell accusing him of lying to Congress.
We also saw President Trump instilling a number of his loyalists on the national planning committee. That has since helped when it comes to the ballroom, but initially that was in part to look into this matter, to look into what was going on with the federal reserve building and to ask a lot of pointed and public questions which seem to be leaning toward some kind of criminal investigation.
Now, Karoline Leavitt has said that President Trump at no time directed the Department of Justice to open this investigation. But President Trump has made his feelings on Powell incredibly clear. Now, when it comes to Scott Bessent, this itself is not that surprising. Scott Bessent is part of the reason that President Trump had been backing down from that language about actually firing Powell.
Yes, he was continuing to act over and over again, berate Powell, insult him. But he kind of stepped back from that firing talk. And that's because Bessent had been in his ear essentially telling him it is bad, not only for U.S. markets, but for the global economy if you do fire Powell, even the threats of firing Powell are impacting the markets.
And Bessent, I'm told, views the markets as his primary job. Now, of course, if you look at the markets today, it doesn't seem as though they were that affected by this investigation. But I am told that Bessent was talking to people close to him, saying that he was frustrated by this and by the idea of it potentially having a larger global impact.
Now, I will also tell you that I talked to a number of aides close to President Trump, as well as allies who say they swear that this is not political. They believe that there should be some more investigation into this building, into the renovation and into the budget. But of course, again, President Trump has made it clear how he feels about Jerome Powell in this position.
BURNETT: Yeah, and he certainly has. Kristen Holmes, thank you very much. And his press secretary today saying as to whether Jerome Powell is a criminal are the words that she used.
Richard Quest, Berit Berger, and Jim Bianco are with us.
Richard, it's an incredible moment. You hear the press secretary of the United States speaking of Jerome Powell, who is obviously an incredibly respected person around the world. Will it remain? We'll find out if he's a criminal.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE: The important thing on that, this is not an investigation into the overrun and over costs of the building.
[19:10:05]
This is an investigation into whether or not Jerome Powell lied. So, this idea that what everybody is suggesting, its only right and proper to have an investigation into --
BURNETT: How much we're spending.
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: And as a U.S. taxpayer, I fully agree.
BURNETT: Right.
QUEST: But this is not that. This is an investigation into Jerome Powell's testimony about a VIP dining rooms, whatever marble and things like that.
The reason I think that it's taken on this fever is because it's crossed the Rubicon. It's gone somewhere that no one has ever gone. There have been disputes between presidents and Fed. Before 1970s, Nixon had one. It's -- that's not new, but nobody's ever gone nuclear in quite this way.
BURNETT: I mean, Jim Bianco, I don't -- I'm not trying to be funny in saying this, although it may come out that way. But, you know, it's one thing to call the Fed chair nasty and stupid and dumb and stupid and whatever else we just heard Trump say repeatedly, right, over many months. But this is -- this is different, right? This is a criminal investigation into the man.
JIM BIANCO, ECONOMIC ANALYST; BIANCO RESEARCH PRESIDENT: Oh, I agree, I mean, you know, the federal reserve chairman has been often called the second most powerful man in Washington after the president. And if you can't handle a little bit of criticism, you're not fit for the job. And Jay Powell has shown that, you know, all the nasty words didn't bother him.
But now that you start talking about a criminal investigation and potentially, as Jay Powell said, leaning into trying to impact monetary policy or this is a punishment for not cutting interest rates fast enough. Yeah, you're right. This is kind of a Rubicon that's been crossed.
BURNETT: Yeah. And Jay Powell came out and said it right. It wasn't even that everybody could connect the dots of what Trump had said he wanted. And Powell didn't do. Powell actually came out and said that was why, which I think was also part of why it's so extraordinary Berit.
I mean, what is this, I guess, where does this go from here? How easy is this for Jerome Powell to fight this? I would imagine in addition to his day job -- his day job, which we're in the midst of, of true economic challenges in this country and around the world, he now has to deal with this. BERIT BERGER, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yeah, exactly. I think
distraction was the word that was used earlier. And that's exactly what this is. I mean, look, I think there are really two reasons why this is going to be a really difficult case for DOJ to bring.
The first is that lying to Congress cases are hard all of the time. They're hard because you have to show that the statement was material. It can't be just, you know, something trivial that you got wrong. You have to show that -- you know, what you allegedly lied about had some importance, that it had an influence on the listener.
You also have to show that you made that statement intentionally, that you were really trying to mislead. And it wasn't just, you know, a misstatement.
So, these cases are always hard. This one will be particularly hard for them to bring, because you can't look at this case in isolation. You have to look at it in the context of everything the president has said and done with respect to the Fed, all of the comments he's made about Powell, all of the nasty things he said.
Also, all of the attempts that he has taken to undermine the independence of the Fed, you know, threatening, trying to fire Lisa Cook, trying to, you know, withhold certain this is all an effort to really undermine that independence. And this case will be looked at in that context as well.
BURNETT: And that is why, Richard, with so much else that is happening around the world, this may matter more than anything else, because the United States cannot be the United States if investors from around the world aren't buying American assets.
QUEST: Let us not concentrate on what the markets did today.
BURNETT: Right.
QUEST: The markets are aware that Jay Powell has one vote on the FOMC. And it's a long way. And they're not going to move this month or next month because of other factors.
BURNETT: They're really ultimately hoping this goes away.
QUEST: Correct. But at the same time, if the perception of the fraying of the independence, the integrity of the Fed, this has got very long term implications.
BURNETT: I mean, and, Jim, long term, but I guess medium term in the sense of the fact that Jay Powell's term is supposed to come up. So, Trump had the ability to get rid of Jay Powell this spring, right, replace him with somebody that you want.
Would have been way easier before the next person, you know, feels like they're going to look like the world's biggest patsy by taking the job?
BIANCO: Yeah, I agree, you know, why is he bringing this up now? Jay Powell is only got five months, maybe less than five months left as Federal Reserve chairman. As Richard pointed out, they're not going to cut rates at their January meeting and that puts them into March. So that's half of those five months right there.
But maybe this is a signal for the next Fed chairman. You know, not only are we talking about the next fed chairman being a patsy, but Trump wants to establish the ability that he can fire the Fed chairman. So, whoever he puts into place next, if they start thinking independently after they've told him what he wants to hear to get the job, he's got this big club over their head to make sure that they stay in line.
[19:15:02]
BURNETT: I mean, which is -- which is pretty stunning. And you think about people, I mean, people like Kevin Warsh, right? Super respected guy.
He's going to want to take the job when this happens. People don't want to look. They don't want to look like the world's biggest patsy.
QUEST: Which is why it was interesting that Kevin Hassett today -- he went along with the president. He says Jay Powell -- he's the front runner, economic adviser. He says Jay Powell should be pleased to clear his name.
BURNETT: Yeah. And we know, of course, Kevin Hassett is part of that inner circle of Trump, right? I mean, we know -- we know -- we know he knows where his bread is buttered.
Berit, I want to ask you about one other breaking story that just happening here just developing in the past few moments. Senator Mark Kelly is suing the defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, and he's doing that tonight. Because Hegseth had moved to cut Kelly's retirement pay and his rank over the video that Kelly had recorded that said, you don't have to follow illegal orders. Something, of course, that that Hegseth a few years ago had said himself when Biden was president.
And he also said this Senator Kelly did tonight on the Senate floor. Let me play it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): I just never expected that I would have to protect the rule of law against a secretary of defense. Pete Hegseth says unconstitutional crusade against me sends a chilling message to every retired member of the military.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETTT: Where does Kelly's case go against Hegseth?
BERGER: Kelly has what would appear, from my perspective, is a very strong case. Number one, he has a First Amendment protected right for this type of political speech. Number two, everything that was said in that video has the benefit of being true. The law is well settled. As Pete Hegseth knows, that military members do not and should not follow illegal orders.
Nothing that was said in that video was wrong or misleading or contrary to the laws of this country. So, he has a very strong legal leg to stand on. Both -- everything he said could have been wrong, and he still would have had a First Amendment right to have, you know, protected speech. But everything they said was right.
So, it seems to me that he would have a pretty strong basis here for his.
BURNETT: Berit, Richard, Jim, thanks so much to all of you.
And next, the breaking news in Minnesota, a face-off with Trump escalating this hour. The state is now suing the administration as the administration sending another an additional 1,000 troops to -- agents to Minneapolis. Congresswoman Ilhan Omar is next.
And Trump hits Iran where it hurts, slapping hefty tariffs on any country that does business there. And we have new video of the horror taking place across that country tonight.
And then the acting president of Venezuela shutting down Trump after he referred to himself on a Wikipedia page he posted online as the acting president of Venezuela.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:22:17]
BURNETT: Breaking news, a federal invasion. That is the accusation by the state of Minnesota against the Trump administration tonight. The state is filing a lawsuit after sources tell CNN that an additional 1,000 U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents are now expected to deploy to Minneapolis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEITH ELLISON, MINNESOTA ATTORNEY GENERAL: This has to stop. It just has to stop. We allege that the obvious targeting of Minnesota for our diversity, for our democracy and our differences of opinion with the federal government is a violation of the constitution and of federal law. These poorly trained, aggressive and armed agents of the federal state have terrorized Minnesota with widespread unlawful conduct.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Minnesota Attorney General Ellison laying out their case.
Democratic Congresswoman Ilhan Omar represents Minneapolis, where Renee Good was shot and killed by an ICE agent.
And I appreciate your time, Congresswoman.
So, look, this mass deployment, as we understand it, this additional 1,000 agents that we're learning about would bring the number of federal agents on the streets of Minneapolis to 3,000, right? So, if you add it to the 2,000 that they'd already said was the biggest ever immigration surge to an American city, you now increase that by a third to 3,000, dwarfing -- dwarfing the number of Minneapolis police.
Do you worry, congresswoman, that -- that this could turn into a conflict, that the agents could come into conflict with Minneapolis police?
REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): I mean, it feels like we have an occupying force that has come in to our city. It is completely dangerous. It feels like we don't -- we do not have a proper understanding of what the strategy is, what they're supposed to be doing when it comes to the federal law enforcement that has come in to our community.
And so, it is one of those cases where it can result into a more dangerous situation. And I agree with our attorney general, Keith Ellison, in saying we would like for you all to leave and that we are taking action to require you leave because it doesn't make any sense why you are in our city outside of the PR strategy that the White House has been conducting in Minnesota.
BURNETT: You have said, Congresswoman, that as part of accountability, that it's important for people to record ICE agents so that, you know, to take cell phone videos when things happen.
[19:25:03]
But I'm curious about how you feel now in the context of the tragedy that happened to Renee Good.
Her wife was filming the tragedy. The ICE officer who shot good was also filming. Right? So, we've got lots of video, never mind all the other people who are around. But I'm wondering if you're worried that by encouraging people to film that, that could be encouraging somehow people to end up in more danger.
OMAR: I mean, if you -- if you think about what ICE, which is immigration and customs enforcement or if you think about what the border control agents are doing, it's that they don't have jurisdiction in pulling over Minnesota citizens and stopping them and questioning them, and detaining them, oftentimes.
So, it is important for regular civilians to be able to trail these people to document their -- their conduct and to make sure what they are doing is being recorded so that we can have accountability. We might not be able to deliver accountability under the Trump administration. But there is no possibility in which we are not going to be able to deliver accountability for the American public after Trump leaves office when it comes to these agents.
BURNETT: All right. So, you spoke out obviously against the administration's version of events in the good shooting, and the White House came out after you did that. And they've told "The Hill", I just wanted to quote for you, because this is just in response to what you said yesterday, that videos have debunked Ilhan Omar's lies. The ICE officer was struck by Good's car. Omar should acknowledge the truth rather than lie about law enforcement and incite more violence against them.
What is your response to them? And I guess as part of this, if it turns out that the car -- Good's car did bump the agent, right, if that happened, does that change anything about how you see things and, and the fact that this still shouldn't have happened?
OMAR: I mean, it is the most B.S. statement again, that the administration can put out. You see, this officer clearly go in front of, the car as she reverses. You see his hands on the car, you see his feet is very far away from the wheels of the car.
So, there was no possibility that he might have been afraid of getting hit by the car. And so, it is a clear P.R. It's a defense of a clear murder that we see on TV by the administration. And it is shameful. And it should not be acceptable. It's unconscionable. And I stand by everything that I've said.
BURNETT: Are you comfortable, though, with the word "murder"?
OMAR: I am very comfortable with the word murder. There is no conscionable way in which you watch the video that the administration itself has produced. And you do not see this person, this officer, Jonathan Ross, clearly murdering this woman. Not only does he shoot her in the face, but you see two more shots being fired on the side of the driver's window. There is no way to explain this outside of it being clearly thought-out murder and execution of this woman.
BURNETT: All right. Congresswoman Omar, thank you very much. I appreciate your time.
And I want to go now to Marc O'Mara, criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor.
Okay. There's a lot to talk about here, but let's just start with the fact that Congresswoman Omar is standing by her use of the word "murder".
MARK O'MARA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Correct.
BURNETT: Okay. What do you see?
O'MARA: Well, it's a homicide because somebody killed somebody else. Murder is an unjustified, intentional killing of somebody else. And that, I don't think, is what happened here.
The question really is, and unfortunately, it's a nuance. We don't have a wonderful video of it. But the most recent video that came out does suggest that he was in front of the car -- in front of the car and probably tapped him.
But more important to me is, you know, the reason for it. Look, traditional self-defense is what now the administration is saying. What he is saying is basically an imminent threat. It was sort of imminent because the car was there with deadly weapon. Unfortunately, a car can be a deadly weapon when it's moving. And then your response, it has to be reasonable under the circumstances. And then you can use deadly force.
So great on a law school exam question. He may have acted in self- defense.
BURNETT: Except for the fact that he could have just stepped back.
O'MARA: And that's the whole point. Was it -- was it necessary? It justified is over here. Fine. It may be justified under the law because you've got, let's call it a C minus on all of those criteria.
But was it necessary. He literally moved three feet to his right. He did not get injured. He can argue.
BURNETT: And law enforcement as we know -- I mean, they're -- they're trained to deescalate specifically, they're told to step away from cars. You had the license number.
O'MARA: Right. And this -- and they're going to get spit on. They're going to get yelled at. That's part of the job. You can't overreact to something like that.
I said before, and I think this was more out of arrogance than fear. I don't think he liked what the wife said to him around the car. He came around the car.
First of all, why in God's name is he walking in front of a car that has a -- has a driver? Don't do that. Walk around the back or walk ten feet in front of you. Give yourself the room.
BURNETT: So, you know, the Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt is saying that Trump stands fully behind the agent, and I would see no reason why that's ever going to change, given the political climate in this country right now. But let me just play her reasoning for that
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There is plentiful video evidence to show that the officer was struck by the car, that this deranged, lunatic woman was trying to ram him over with her vehicle and was using that vehicle as a weapon, which justifies domestic terrorism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Okay, obviously a lot in there seems to be sort of in the land of absurdistan. Okay. But you've got -- you've got Ilhan Omar calling it murder and you've got Karoline Leavitt calling it domestic terrorism.
I would imagine you feel that it is -- as far away from domestic terrorism as you felt it was for murder.
O'MARA: It is absolutely not domestic terror. And quite honestly, that type of political, you know, catchphrase or whatever it is or soundbite doesn't deserve to be in this case. It's a horrible tragedy where a woman who seemed to be doing not very much wrong at all, even if she was resisting like a Gandhi quiet resistance doesn't deserve.
BURNETT: It's so interesting the use of that analogy, right? Right. So, okay. She's resisting. It's her right to resist. She's not doing so violently.
O'MARA: It's her constitutional right to resist. We're supposed to ask for redress from the government. And if the government is on the street, you can do it on the street. But the idea that it's domestic terrorism. It's a sound bite, but it really denigrates what we're going through with real domestic terrorists that are out there assailing our country. She's just not one of them.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Mark O'Mara.
And OUTFRONT next, breaking news, leave Iran. Now, that is a message to any American who is in Iran tonight, as chilling video has emerged of the deadly violence rocking protests across that country.
Plus, one of Putin's closest allies now openly calling for Trump to work with Russia to take Greenland by force. What is going on?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:37:12]
BURNETT: Breaking news, leave now. That is a warning from the State Department to any American citizens inside Iran right now, as the regime faces its most serious anti-government protests in years, President Trump ratcheting up the pressure on Iran, saying he's putting a 25 percent tariff on any country that does business there, quote, effective immediately.
The violence inside Iran is growing worse amid a brutal crackdown, with one human rights group confirming the deaths of more than 500 protesters. It is an incredible black box. And to think that such a black box could exist in a world of social media like this.
But Jomana Karadsheh is OUTFRONT, and I want to warn our viewers that some of what you're about to see in her report may be disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From behind the walls of the Iranian regime's censorship, a chilling video has emerged. Every moment of what may be a hidden camera reveals a terrifying picture of what's been unfolding on the ground.
They butchered him, this mourner wails.
Families gathered at this medical center outside Tehran, searching for loved ones.
Lines of lifeless bodies are stored in a warehouse turned morgue. Inside the center, distraught family members stand anxiously in front of a screen that flashes photos of the dead. From that same location, state media had its own pictures and
narrative reporting the majority of bodies are those of ordinary citizens. They blame their deaths, like the protests on foreign backed terrorists carrying out what they say are indiscriminate killings. These pictures the regime decided to air perhaps, a warning to those who dare take to the streets.
It's almost impossible for us to get real time updates from Iran, the regimes shut down communications across the country on Thursday, just as nationwide protests against the clerical establishment drew larger crowds to the streets of every province.
It's a tactic out of its playbook on crushing dissent cover. It's used in the past to unleash bloody force.
The little testimony and images that have been trickling out only a small window into what a ruthless regime doesn't want the world to see.
Video like this that purportedly captures the feared state security forces out on the streets is slowly surfacing, sent out by those who are risking their lives to get it out.
[19:40:03]
As the U.S. weighs its next move following the president's threats to strike hard if the regime kills protesters, President Trump now saying Iran has reached out to negotiate.
TRUMP: But we may have to act because of what's happening before the meeting.
KARADSHEH (voice-over): In this one location, an estimated 250 bodies with hundreds more confirmed killed elsewhere, according to activists. The world now braces for what may come when Iran finally emerges from the dark.
Jomana Karadsheh, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: And OUTFRONT now is Skylar Thompson. In the wake of Jomana's reporting, she's the deputy director at human rights activists in Iran. It is an organization that is closely tracking the turmoil unfolding.
And, Skylar. I mean, it's just incredible, as I was talking about it with a black box, you have a view inside that block. That box, you know, the reports that we hear, violence inside Iran has skyrocketed in the last few days. And I know that you're getting more information about that, but also from inside hospitals. What are you learning tonight?
SKYLAR THOMPSON, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVISTS IRAN: Yeah, a black box is a really unfortunately accurate way to put it. We've now seen an unprecedented shutdown of communications surpassing 100 hours. So, it's really difficult information. It's reduced to a minimum. But what we are able to glean from our network is absolute brutality.
Jomana's package correctly mentioned bodies upwards of 250 in 1 place. And we've, you know, documented over 500 deaths, as you mentioned, as well. But we have over 500 cases still under investigation. So really sort of paints the picture of what kind of brutality we're looking at.
Inside hospitals, we have collected documents from doctors that show, people impacted with tear gas, people shot at close range, and oftentimes they can't even seek appropriate medical care because doctors are stretched thin or they're being taken directly to a detention facility rather than getting the care that they need
BURNETT: I know that you've also been reporting Skylar on state television in Iran, and that there's been an unprecedented number of forced confessions that they have actually broadcast on state TV. What more can you tell us about that?
THOMPSON: Yeah, it's absolutely something that we haven't seen before. This number really concerns us. People are being arbitrarily arrested, as we've documented thousands, tens of thousands of people.
And what happens is they're arrested. They're taken to a detention facility, unknown at times. Sometimes we don't even know, you know, where a person is being held, and then suddenly they appear on state television confessing to, you know, being parts of, rioters, terrorists being associated or influenced by foreign elements.
And what's so concerning is these confessions happen under torture, psychological or physical sometimes. And then they carry the death penalty, the charges that they're, that they're admitting to under coercion.
BURNETT: What do you see is different? I mean, there are some out there saying, okay, this is this, this could be it. And then there are others who say, no, the protests have been massive before. Look at 2009 and the Green Movement. And of course, the death of the young woman in police custody that had sparked mass protests in 2022 and 2023.
Is this different?
THOMPSON: Yeah. I mean, the first thing I would say is that we owe it to Iranians to believe in them, right? They are risking their lives coming to the streets. They risk their lives to send us information. So, it's really important that we that we believe in them and everything that they're saying.
We have seen protests in every province across the country, in hundreds of cities. And I think that really shows the united nature of this, this moment. And we're also seeing it, I might add, across class, across class, across ethnicity. So that's really unique.
And I think, you know, on top of that, we don't just have a single trigger like we did in 2022. People are out on the streets because they simply can't live a good life. They can't buy oil, they can't buy rice. Money is not stable. And there's inflation, there's corruption. Women don't have rights.
This is just like a storm of a situation that's really unfolding.
BURNETT: Skylar, thank you very much. Really appreciate your taking the time. And with this, the incredible insight that you have you know, it's really the only view that we've got right now. Thank you so much.
THOMPSON: Thank you so much for having me.
BURNETT: And next we have breaking news. The acting president of Venezuela taking on Trump and a claim that he posted a Wikipedia page that he posted saying that he was the acting president of Venezuela.
[19:45:01]
And Elon Musk, apparently back in Trump's inner circle after that public implosion. Tonight, he's in Texas with the defense secretary, Pete Hegseth.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight, the acting president of Venezuela, Delcy Rodriguez, with a fiery response to President Trump after he posted this fake Wikipedia page with his official portrait, referring to himself as his top job as the acting president of Venezuela. Rodriguez saying, quote, "I've seen cartoons of Wikipedia about who's in charge of Venezuela. We have an acting president and there is a president being held hostage in the United States."
John Bolton is OUTFRONT now, Trump's former national security adviser.
Ambassador Bolton, there's a lot here, especially considering that Trump has said the Venezuelan it's still the Maduro regime is going to do what he wants them to do, and she's responding in this way to what he posted.
[19:50:00]
But when you take a look at what Trump posted, right, the president of the United States, put that fake Wikipedia page out with his top job being acting president of Venezuela, what was your reaction when you first saw that and realized he actually posted that?
AMB. JOHN BOLTON, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES: Well, I think he may come to regret it the same way Biden came to regret embracing the phrase "Bidenomics" to describe his economic policy. I think we're in a very dangerous place in Venezuela now. I think removing Maduro was entirely proper and correct, but leaving the regime in place without Maduro risks never having regime change at all.
And if you don't get a transition to a government that can at least hold out the prospect of a rule of law, society, you're simply never going to get significant foreign investment, particularly in the oil sector. And all these rosy economic plans the White House has been talking about are going to come to nothing.
BURNETT: Right. Well, of course, the people who had done the deals and had the closeness with China and Russia are the -- are the triumvirate who are very much in power now, of course, and not in a New York prison.
The opposition leader, Maria Corina Machado, though, is scheduled ambassador to meet with President Trump on Thursday. Now, obviously, Trump, in his initial press conference, said that that he didn't think she was capable of leading Venezuela. She did win the 2025 Peace Prize, which keeps coming up because he talks about it a lot.
She has actually suggested she would offer it to Trump, and Trump was asked about this and I'll play for you what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: If she gives you her Nobel peace prize, will that change your view about her running that country?
TRUMP: Well, I have to speak to her. I mean, I'm going to have to speak to her. She might be involved in some aspect of it. I will have to speak to her.
I think it's very nice that she wants to come in. And that's what I understand. The reason is I can't think of anybody in history that should get the Nobel Prize more than me. And I don't want to be bragging, but nobody else settled wars.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Just to state a fact that I didn't ever think I'd have to state, the Nobel Committee says the prize is not transferable.
Ambassador, what do you think of Trump's suggestion here? And the fact that, once again, he comes back to a line like, quote, "I can't think of anybody in history that should get the Nobel Prize more than me".
In the context of everything that's happening here, this still matters deeply to him.
BOLTON: Look, it's always all about Trump. He cares less about Venezuela than he does the prize. And by the way, she can give him the medallion and still keep the prize, if that's what he wants.
Theodore Roosevelt's Nobel medallion hangs on the wall at the Roosevelt Room in the White House. I've always worried Trump would grab that if he can't get another one. She could probably find a replacement somewhere.
But the real point is he doesn't seem to understand the way Venezuela works. We have the coercive power in place in the Caribbean right now to complete the regime change, and her legitimacy comes as the leader of the opposition. Even though Maduro or Venezuelan court blocked her from being a candidate, the surrogate candidate, Edmundo Gonzalez, by the tally of some independent observers, got as much as 70 percent of the popular vote to Maduro's 30 percent.
She is the legitimate government of Venezuela. That's what underlies the legitimacy of Trump's removing maduro. So when he threw her side last Saturday night, it was a huge mistake on his part, both in terms of the legitimacy of what the U.S. had done and the potential future in Venezuela.
BURNETT: I have to ask you, Ambassador, about Iran, because there's some developments here. And obviously, you as national security advisor, know the president's feelings on this perhaps better than anybody. You've been the target yourself of an Iranian assassination plot.
And Trump, we understand now is receiving constant updates on the massive protests in Iran, we were just joined by somebody who was talking about a death toll north of 500 at least. And we understand that strikes -- U.S. strikes on Iran are actively being discussed.
What do you think that means? And do you think Trump will do it?
BOLTON: Well, I think the death toll may be in the thousands just this weekend when reports from more remote provinces come in. The real question is not whether we have the capacity to have another one-off military strike or whether Trump will do it. We need a clear objective, and then we need to figure out what to do to achieve the objective.
I think the objective should be the overthrow of the ayatollahs and the revolutionary guard. I think we should help the opposition. And I think whether it's kinetic, targeted military strikes, for example, against revolutionary guard headquarters, again, against the nuclear and ballistic missile programs or other non-kinetic actions, cyberattack, whatever it is, we ought to be very vigorous. We ought to do what we can to support the opposition.
We will never have peace and security in the Middle East while the ayatollahs are still in power.
BURNETT: Ambassador Bolton, I appreciate your time and thank you.
[19:55:00]
BOLTON: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, Elon Musk seems to be well back in Trump's good graces tonight.
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BURNETT: Tonight, Elon Musk back -- back in the Trump world after that spectacular falling out that played out in front of the whole world and back in a big way publicly.
Moments ago, Musk, appearing with the defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, at SpaceX headquarters in Texas. The world's richest man, appearing alongside a senior cabinet member. Of course, SpaceX and Musk has lots of federal contracts.
And it's not just Hegseth The president announcing on Air Force One last night that he will consult Musk about restoring Internet in Iran via Starlink
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He's very good at that kind of thing. He's got a very good company
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Starlink has done a lot of good for the world.
But it comes after Musk posted a picture of himself at Mar-a-Lago last week, writing had a lovely dinner last night with the president and first lady. 2026 is going to be amazing.
It's all a stunning turnaround from last summer when he and Trump sparred publicly and Musk threatened Trump over Epstein. Musk called Trump's signature spending bill on top of that a disgusting abomination. At one point going so far as to say Trump is in the Epstein files, that is the real reason they have not been made public.
Trump later deleted the tweet. He got even went even further than that actually at one point. But it now all appears to be water under the bridge.
Thanks so much for joining us.
"AC360" starts right now.
