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Erin Burnett Outfront
Now: Increased Police Activity At Home Of Savannah Guthrie's Mother; New Details On Possible Ransom Notes; Outrage Grows Over Epstein Redactions And Who They Protect. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired February 04, 2026 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:25]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
The breaking news, police just arriving at Nancy Guthrie's home just now. Police activity there increasing in just the past couple of moments here as we are getting new details about her whereabouts in the hours just before she vanished. And who was the last person known to have seen her.
And a local Tucson anchor who saw the possible ransom note for Nancy Guthrie is OUTFRONT. Police tonight say they're absolutely not dismissing the note. So, what's in it?
And the outrageous Epstein redactions. Why is the identity of the person who wrote to Epstein, quote, "Your littlest girl was a little naughty" being shielded from the public?
Let's go OUTFRONT.
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BURNETT: And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
And OUTFRONT tonight, we begin with breaking news. There has been a sudden increase of police just now outside the home belonging to Savannah Guthrie's mother in Tucson, Arizona. They showed up just a few moments ago. Crime scene tape is now seen outside the house.
You can see this video just coming in from our Ed Lavandera on the ground. And you see that yellow tape. He's saying that they can see that now just going up.
This major police presence coming as there is new information about hours leading up to the mysterious disappearance of Nancy Guthrie. Multiple news organizations are reporting now that Nancy had dinner at her daughters home in Tucson before she returned to her home Saturday night. And the search is now in its fourth day. Investigators say they are absolutely not dismissing these possible ransom notes either.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF CHRIS NANOS, PIMA COUNTY, AZ: When the note comes to us, its like any piece of evidence you give it to us, you give us a lead. We're going to look at every aspect of that lead and work it as a lead.
INTERVIEWER: So you're not dismissing this note at this point. It is potentially credible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Now, the notes that were talking about were sent to at least three different media outlets, including TMZ and two stations in Tucson. Now, the notes were demanding millions of dollars in bitcoin for Nancy Guthrie's safe return.
Now, in a moment, I'm going to speak to an anchor from one of the stations that received a ransom note. She has seen the exact contents of the letter.
Now, investigators have not yet confirmed whether the three similar notes are legitimate or not. And today, the Pima sheriff's department released a statement that reads in part. At this point, investigators have not identified a suspect or person of interest in this case. Detectives continue to speak with anyone who may have had contact with Mrs. Guthrie.
A person close to the investigation is now telling "The Associated Press" that there are signs of forced entry at the home as we are getting a more detailed timeline of what events were that happened in -- leading up to Nancy Guthrie's disappearance. She was last seen, we understand, around 9:30 p.m. local time on Sunday. That's when family members dropped her off for dinner -- after dinner, I'm sorry.
By 2:00 a.m. on Sunday, though, this is a crucial data point we now have. That is when her pacemaker sent its last known signal to her iPhone. Now, her iPhone was later found at her home on Sunday morning around 11:00 a.m., her relatives went to her home to look for her because they heard she wasn't at church. And it was Sunday at noon then when 911 got the call.
Ed Lavandera is OUTFRONT, live in Tucson, Arizona.
And, Ed, you're back in front of Nancy Guthrie's house. I know right in front of that crime scene tape that you were just showing us a moment ago from your shot. So, what are you seeing and learning there right now? It's happening.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's all unfolding just here in the last few moments, as you, as you mentioned. But the crime scene tape went up just a short while ago across the entire length of the property here. One of the law enforcement vehicles with gear, presumably for evidence collection and that sort of thing, so that we see two officers here. We've seen another couple of officers walking around the back side of the house.
Now, what has prompted this? We don't exactly know at this moment, but it is significant because shortly after on Sunday, when the search was concluding, officers here and investigators had said that they had completed most of the work that they needed to be done inside the house. In this investigation, were now four days into this, and Nancy Guthrie still has not been found. A lot of questions about what kind of information and evidence has been dug up in the last four days, as investigators here have been calling for tips to come in.
So, this seems like a rather significant development as investigators are coming back out here to the home, presumably to continue and perhaps either redo some of the work or try to maybe find something that might have been missed here on Sunday when investigators descended on this neighborhood where Nancy Guthrie lives.
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But we can you know, you can kind of see here around this vehicle where the crime scene tape extends well past, you know, the length of the property here. So, this is a situation, Erin, unfolding as we speak here this afternoon. All of this kind of unfolding too, as well as there has been, you know, so little clarity as to what has happened with Nancy Grace and some real questions about just how much information investigators have at this moment.
BURNETT: So, Ed, you know, I know this all just really is unfolding sort of as were speaking, you know, last night at this very time, right there was that helicopter that was going over which, you know, for some sort of search or reconnaissance that they were doing.
But when you're talking about them now, coming back to the house what have you noticed that's different as you've been coming and going all through the day? Do you have any sense of how many of them there are or where around the house they are or, you know, anything that you've been able to see yourself?
LAVANDERA: Yeah, it's very difficult to see. As we've reported throughout most of the week, you know, seen in the line of sight in this neighborhood is very minimal because it is, you know, the houses are spread apart. They're set back deep onto these properties. Theres a lot of, you know, the desert foliage, the cactus and everything that you see. So, it's very difficult to get a good, clear view as to what's happening on the property.
But we do know that there are a couple of agents that we -- or officers that we've seen on the backside of the property. It's hard for us to get a vantage point to know exactly what they're doing or what they might be looking for, but it is significant because yesterday we also saw similar activity with a sheriff's department helicopter making several passes over about a 30-minute time period. Very low level, just flying back and forth across not just the property here, but in the surrounding area. And they continued to do that investigative work.
So clearly here in the last couple of days, with the lack of information, with the lack of clues that these investigators appear to be getting, perhaps this is a return to the scene, to the crime scene, to try to see if there might be something, some sort of clue, some sort of a tip that might have been missed. Something -- something else, fresh eyes. Who knows exactly what they might find on these -- the pass through here once again. But clearly this is very different in our entire time. We're now four
days into this. We have not seen crime tape, crime scene tape here back at this house.
BURNETT: No. And I think that's very significant as well.
You know, sitting here with John Miller, curious, you're talking about how was the sheriff's helicopter last night? Do you know, in terms of the agents that are there, do you have any -- I don't know if you're able to see anything on their vests or anything as to whether they're FBI or local sheriff, or is it unclear?
LAVANDERA: I've seen one of the officers has sheriff labeling on the two officers that were in the back. Actually, we see a few more of them there -- actually see like three or four of them now, but I cannot make up -- make out in the shadows there. I cannot make out from my vantage point any -- any lettering on the uniforms or the gear that they're wearing there. But you can kind of see there on the back side of the house, the officers, I'm not sure if I can't make it out, Erin, to be honest with you.
So, they're kind of under the tree there in the shadows. Makes it very difficult to see. But clearly activity. Actually, I see some more people even deeper into the property as well. So, there is a contingent of law enforcement officers here at the scene really kind of focused on the back part of the house.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much. And as you see more, of course, we're going to bring it back in. You're looking at the picture there live right on the side of Nancy Guthrie's home. You can see kind of the bodies moving. Ed saying at least one of them was from the sheriff's department.
Unclear, though, where those other agents are from. But I think from what it said, you can definitely see three or four of them even there, but we can see them moving. We're going to keep this just up for a second here.
We're going to be joined now by Mary Coleman, anchor for KOLD 13 News in Tucson. Now that is a station that received one of the alleged ransom notes tied to Nancy Guthrie's disappearance.
And, Mary, I'm really grateful for your being willing to talk to us. And, you know, we're looking at these live pictures. I know that you are also seeing live pictures as well on your feeds at News 13.
So, before we get to the note, this major law enforcement presence that were seeing multiple units, federal agents may be involved. And talking about seeing someone from the sheriff's office as well. What are you learning from your team on the ground and from what you're seeing?
MARY COLEMAN, ANCHOR FOR KOLD 13 NEWS: Sure, yeah. Well, we have confirmed that the Pima County sheriff's department does have deputies there, and we've also confirmed that that federal agents are involved. We recently learned this information with our reporter and our crews there.
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And I actually texted the sheriff. I was curious if he could offer some insight. And he texted me back just a few minutes ago and he said that they are just doing follow up, and didn't elaborate much further on what that follow up is. So, of course, our crews are there.
I know your crews are there. Everyone trying to figure out what their presence is that's going on. We know there was a canine as well, but again, we have confirmed that feds are involved. We did see some men in camo gear, not quite sure who they're with, but working to find out the same information that you all are trying to find out.
BURNETT: Well, very significant, as you said, the sheriff just texting you back, though, moments ago and characterizing this as follow up. I mean, to understand what that means. Obviously, we don't know, but a lot of information.
So, Mary, of course, as were talking here, please interrupt and share more information as you get it. As I know you're breaking so much of this I wanted to ask you about this alleged ransom note, though, as well.
And I know that KOLD hasn't reported the exact contents, but you, Mary, have personally seen it yourself. What can you share?
COLEMAN: I haven't, I think a lot of people were questioning the legitimacy of it. And while they're still looking into the legitimacy of it, they're taking all tips into consideration. We do know there are a few things that we can share as far as what the contents were. A lot of it is information that only someone who is holding her for ransom would know. Some very sensitive information and things that people who weren't there when she was taken captive would know.
So, those are things that are concerning. We immediately sent that information over to the sheriff's department. And they're, of course, looking into the legitimacy of it. One of the detectives did get back to us and ask us for some more information so that they can start searching for an IP address and things of that nature to try and figure out who or what people are responsible here.
BURNETT: And you say an IP address. So, obviously, this was -- came via email, right
COLEMAN: Correct. It did. It came into our newsroom via email.
BURNETT: So, then who saw it first and what did the station do? I mean, at what point did you all realize, wow, this, you know, might not be a crank this -- you know, this might be -- this might be something.
COLEMAN: Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, it also included a dollar amount, a deadline and again, other specifics that that only Guthrie's abductor might know. So that definitely raised some red flags. And our news tips come in directly to the newsroom and our digital
team and other employees have access to that. So, they were the ones who flagged it initially when it came in. And when we saw some of those details, it was clear after a couple of sentences that, you know, this might not be a hoax.
So again, we immediately sent that over to Pima County sheriff's department, and they're still looking into it. And I did reach out to the sheriff earlier and asked him, hey, any news on this? Any news on the legitimacy of this alleged ransom note? And he said, no, no updates right now that he's able to share with us.
BURNETT: And I know you mentioned there was a dollar amount in there, was there -- and I understand there was also a deadline. I mean, are you able to confirm are we past the deadline that they had put in the in the note that you received at this point now or not?
COLEMAN: You know, the information is incredibly sensitive. I don't want to put too much of that out there. As far as that information. But again, I can confirm that that there was a deadline involved.
BURNETT: So, you know, there's also TMZ says they got a separate alleged ransom note, and that was demanding millions of dollars in cryptocurrency, right? And you're talking about a specific dollar amount. Now, they published parts of theirs online. They went and they checked the bitcoin address that they say was in the letter that they got. They said that that's real.
You know, obviously, Mary, you've had a chance to compare what TMZ posted to what you received. Do you think it's the same letter or have you noticed differences between the two?
COLEMAN: Yeah, there are certainly many similarities between the two letters. Again, I didn't see exactly. They didn't post word for word what they're said. Just, you know, a couple of, here, here and there words. But from what they did pull, it does seem like we are sharing similar, similar letters from I don't know if it's the same person again, but the letters do look similar. Yes.
BURNETT: So obviously when you get this via email, I mean, that gives a lot of information potentially right to law enforcement. Mary, do you believe at this point from talking to the sheriff from, from federal law enforcement, and obviously you have so many crews on the ground, so many sources. Do you believe that police at this point actually do know a lot more than they're telling us publicly?
COLEMAN: I would say that there's definitely some additional information that they're withholding. You know, as I mentioned, a lot of it I feel like they believe is going to compromise this investigation. So, they're holding it close to them to ensure that we get Nancy home safely. And I think that's the goal all around.
People want to know where she is. And there's lots of interest in this case. And, you know, all eyes are on the sheriff's department, so I think they're treading lightly with what they're releasing and they're aware that people want that information. [19:15:09]
BURNETT: All right, Mary, I really appreciate your taking the time and sharing everything that you can. Thank you very much.
All right. Mary Coleman, as I said, is an anchor at KOLD 13 News in Tucson. And she has seen the alleged ransom note that the station received.
So, you heard her talking about that.
John Miller and Wallace Zeins are here.
So, what do you make, John, of what she said?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, I think the sheriff was clear that they're treating it as real because until you can eliminate the fact, until you can say this is definitely a hoax, treating it as real investigatively is the right thing to do.
The remarkable thing that Mary tells us is there is sensitive information in there that only someone on the scene would have known, which means as a local reporter with local sources who probably had a good deal of information about the scene. There's things in there that she hadn't seen reported that authorities looked at and said --
BURNETT: Oh, this is true. So that's why she feels I mean, she clearly feels, Wally, that it could be legitimate. Right? I mean, it's very possible from, from what she's saying. But that's an interesting point, that she would have sources that would know things about the crime scene.
WALLACE ZEINS, FORMER NYPD HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR AND HOMICIDE DETECTIVE: Right.
BURNETT: And then she would be able to compare that to the note and say, oh, those things line up.
ZEINS: She's a local. I'm sure there's been some good stories that were done on Nancys residence or what she does. She's in a book club. She spends a lot of time within the community, but also the fact that you take everything that you receive and go with it until you -- until you can disprove it.
And that letter has certain things that are very, very prominent to things that no one else knows. And also with expanding the crime scene, that's a very interesting thing, because somewhere along the line, they either got a new tip that something is out there. I know they're -- they're using some of their rescue dogs, their bloodhounds.
BURNETT: Yeah, she mentioned a canine as well.
ZEINS: They're setting up scent packages, scent packages where they take an item of Nancy's and they enhance it and give it to the bloodhounds. And then they go out and they try to track them and see if they can find anything. And apparently there must be some information out there that they that they are looking for.
BURNETT: So, so, okay. And I guess lots of things can be true at the same time. They may know a lot more than they're saying. They may still not know enough. Right? All these things can be true, John. But what Mary is saying is, you know, this police activity that Ed's reporting on is that the sheriff is saying that this is follow up.
Now, obviously, that's the sheriff. There could also be federal agents there. And you know, unclear the extent to which one or the other. But what does that mean? This is the first time that we've actually seen crime scene tape up.
MILLER: Well, I think the first focus was processing the inside of that house. In the early days, there was a search that went on literally through that night into the next day. Helicopters, drones, ATVs, you know, covering that ground.
But this is completely normal, which is now they've got a command post. They have additional resources. They have a lot of new thinking in there. They've done the kind of search and rescue version that you would do down and dirty with all the resources you could throw at it, and they did.
Now, somebody's saying, have we tried this piece of technology? Who has that? Can we get it up here? Have we tried a different kind of dog? Have we tried a different kind of scent package with something beyond a piece of clothing that we may have just shared the first day?
So, this is them, you know, literally covering the bases. And they will -- they will go back to that command post tomorrow and they'll say, who has a new and different idea? When do we want to go back and try that?
BURNETT: And these are live images I believe. This is actually coming from KOLD outside the home of just activity there, outside the home. Wally, what does it say to you that, you know, an editor is showing that yellow crime scene tape, that that's the first time that they're putting that up?
ZEINS: Well, it tells me that they're expanding the crime scene. They're making sure that they're covering every base. They might have had some sort of lead that was sent to them, and they want to expand it.
Crime scenes -- whenever you get a homicide or any type of high profile case where you have crime scene respond, you always have to expand the crime scene because there's always something that leads to it. For example, in example, in New York City, if you have a shooting and the bullet went through the flooring to the floor below, you're going to extend that crime scene and canvass everything.
And that's what they're doing now. They're extending canvasing and looking for more evidence, or they have certain evidence that they have, and they want to see if it matches to what they're hearing.
BURNETT: So, John, if the ransom notes end up being real and they are somehow negotiating or in contact in some sort of a hostage negotiating sense, if that's happening and they're doing that, why would they also be doing this at the same time?
MILLER: Because they're doing everything all at once. They are looking at concentric circles of people who had access to the house, whether it was cleaning people, maintenance people, grounds people, people who were in any of those jobs and may have moved on to something else, who would know the house well.
[19:20:11]
And then when I say concentric circles, they would be looking at not just those people, but circles around those people who might have a record for violent crime, who might have seen this as a potential.
BURNETT: Right.
MILLER: So that's going on. The ransom note is being examined as a real lead because of the kind of information in it. And, you know, they're also looking right now in this search for other kinds of physical evidence.
They're not stopping any one of these things to prioritize another. They're doing it all simultaneously in a sense of which one is going to pan out.
BURNETT: And you were talking about the concentric circles last night, and people who may have had access to the home. But in a situation, if you believe the letter is real, at what point would they -- and you would imagine someone like Savannah Guthrie, right? She wants her mother home. She desperately wants her mother home. She has financial resources.
At what point do they say mother needs the medication?
ZEINS: Well --
BURNETT: Does the family say we want, you know, let's just -- let's do this, we want her home?
ZEINS: Well, keep in mind one thing, you know, in a situation like that, the hostage taker or the kidnappers, they're going to make demands and they're going to talk to a family member. And what happens in a case like that is the FBI, for an example, say they'll give a hostage negotiator. You have to be able to have a tactical plan already.
For an example, they may want a family member has to be comfortable with the coach. That hostage negotiator is going to be a coach to that individual. They have to be comfortable and they have to be able to accept whatever that coach tells them.
And you know, there's a simple process that we use, a five step process in cases like this that we tell the person who is going to be the negotiator on our end. And the first thing is to develop what we call an active listener. Now, an active listener is not a listener because a listener listens but says, oh, I got to go to the dentist at 4:00. Do you have to be an active listener to listen to everything that individual is saying?
The next part about is showing empathy to the individual, not feeling sorry for them. And the other part after that is going to rapport. Develop a rapport. And then there's two other steps.
BURNETT: And then -- I mean, I guess we don't know whether those conversations are happening right now or not and whether, you know, whether they would actually result in her return. So, so many questions.
But obviously, we've got these live images up as we continue to cover this. Thank you both very much.
And there are growing concerns. I just mentioned to Wally Nancy Guthrie's health, right? We have been told that she needed medication within a day. So, what does all that mean and what does it mean that her pacemaker stopped syncing with her iPhone at 2:00 a.m. on Sunday morning?
Plus, breaking news, President Trump just in a new interview tonight, tripling down on his calls to nationalize U.S. elections, claiming that Democratic strongholds are, quote, extremely corrupt. Former Trump White House attorney Ty Cobb is OUTFRONT.
And an ICE attorney just removed from her post after telling the judge, quote, "This job sucks."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:27:34]
BURNETT: Breaking news, we're looking at these live pictures of crime scene tape, which has just been put out outside the home of Savannah Guthrie's mother. Police activity just picking up in the past few moments around the home.
So, let's go back to Ed Lavandera on the ground.
And, Ed, now here in these last few moments, I know you've gotten some new information.
LAVANDERA: Well, we're getting a little bit more clarity on like just the presence, the amount of law enforcement presence that is back out here at the house. In the last few moments, we saw close to a dozen different officers. It's hard to make out exactly what agencies they're with. Only a few of them had any kind of law enforcement agency markings on the clothing that they were wearing, but there was a group of them that went appears to have gone back inside the house, through the garage.
We also saw another law enforcement officer here grabbing what appeared to be evidence bags from the truck that you see behind me, presumably going -- getting ready to go back in. So, again, this is all very actively happening right now. This
afternoon as this unfolds here and you can see, you know, this is a number of -- one officer walking out, again, its hard to make out exactly what logos and what agency logos they have on their clothing from the distance that were at here. But it was definitely when we first got here. There was only a handful of officers that we could see. And then from the back of the house, close to a dozen of them emerged.
So, a rather significant presence here going back through this house, presumably collecting more evidence or looking for anything that might have been missed throughout the initial search here at this home back on Sunday afternoon -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right, Ed. Thank you. We'll be checking back in with you here over these next minutes as we see what you see with that, that activity going on as we speak here.
As Ed is there, we've been learning that Nancy Guthrie's pacemaker stopped sinking with her iPhone and Apple Watch early Sunday morning around 2:00 a.m., the two devices were found inside her home, according to authorities. The time stamp provides investigators an initial time on when Savannah Guthrie's 84-year-old mother may have been abducted.
OUTFRONT now is Dr. Jonathan Reiner. He is a former longtime cardiologist to Vice President Dick Cheney.
Dr. Reiner, I appreciate your time.
So, you know, people have had so many questions with this. And of course, this is your area of incredible personal professional expertise. What does it say to you that Nancy Guthrie's pacemaker stopped sinking with her apple devices on Sunday at 2:00 a.m.?
[19:30:04]
DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, maybe nothing. The pacemaker not only has the ability to create a heartbeat -- trigger the heart to beat, but it's also a sophisticated monitor of the patients heart rhythm. And a pacemaker is programmed to check in once a day just to check in with its communication device. And then the -- ultimately, the app that monitors it once a day, typically that's at night. So, at 2:00 in the morning, that's all it might -- it might have been doing.
The other possibility is that it actually might have detected an arrhythmia. And so, for instance, if a person was in a physical struggle that might have created a rapid heartbeat, and at over a certain threshold, the pacemaker would have detected that and potentially reported it.
But once the device is more than five to 20 feet or so away from the communication device, like a cell phone, it will no longer be in communication. So it's hard to know exactly what that means. BURNETT: Right. So it would mean it obviously that that there she's not there. Right? So, the not sinking itself does not necessarily mean anything obviously about the pacemaker itself.
REINER: No. But what but it does tell us that she was in close proximity to her cell phone at 2:00 in the morning. So, it tells us that until that time, she they were together.
BURNETT: And then you also mentioned something else, which is that if there had been a struggle and we do understand that there was there was blood and she was abducted, right, there treating as a crime scene. So, she was taken against her will from everything that we've learned -- you're saying that that obviously, if you're talking about five to 15 feet, any sort of a struggle or change in heart would have been picked up by that pacemaker that could be on there.
REINER: Above a certain heart rate, it would be possible that the pacemaker would detect that and then immediately upload that, you know, through its communication device. So we don't know whether this was just a routine check in or whether it had detected an arrhythmia, but it's easy to know, all that needs to be done is to check with the implanting physician, because that's where the data goes.
BURNETT: So, you know, the other thing, of course, is, is in that time when she would have been moved from her bedroom, ostensibly her bed to a distance away from the phone, where it would no longer pick that up. We understand, right, that there had been blood, that we don't know whose blood that could be, her blood, that she could have been injured as part of this abduction. I know that you believe that that actually could be one of the most dangerous parts here.
REINER: Well, I mean, it -- an 84-year-old is a very fragile, person, even a fairly robust person in their 80s is at risk of severe injury if they -- if they fall. You know, I talked to my patients every week older patients about the risk of injury. And we talk about patient safety.
So, Mrs. Guthrie, if she was -- if she lost her footing or pushed to the ground or somehow, fell, that could result in a severe injury. And, of course, we don't know what medications she takes that could actually make an injury worse. Things like a blood thinner.
BURNETT: Yeah. No, we don't know. I know that they had said there was, you know, she needed her medications. You know, and obviously life or death.
All right. Thank you so very much, Dr. Reiner. Appreciate your time.
REINER: My pleasure.
BURNETT: And next, the breaking news. Trump just pressed on why his director of national intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, was with FBI agents as they searched a Georgia elections office. Former White House attorney Ty Cobb is OUTFRONT.
And an ICE attorney sent to Minnesota just removed from her post after telling a judge, as I said, her quote was, "This job sucks".
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:38:06]
BURNETT: Breaking news, President Trump once again calling to nationalize U.S. elections while claiming three Democratic strongholds are, quote, extremely corrupt. Here he is moments ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: There are some areas in our country that are extremely corrupt. They have very corrupt elections. Take a look at Detroit. Take a look at Philadelphia. Take a look at Atlanta.
If we need to put in federal controls as opposed to state controls, remember this. They're really an agent. They're really accumulating the votes for who wins an election. If they can't do it honestly and it can't be done properly and timely, then something else has to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OUTFRONT now, Ty Cobb, former Trump White House lawyer.
So, Ty, Trump has said repeatedly that he wants to nationalize elections. You just said it again there. I mean, earlier today, the White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt said, oh, you know, he was not really nationalizing. He was referring to you know, legislation that would require people to prove they're U.S. citizens when they register to vote. And that's what it's about.
But he keeps talking about it explicitly. What do you think this is about?
TY COBB, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE LAWYER: Well, I think this is about precisely what he said nationalizing the elections. He wants control. He doesn't have control because the constitution makes clear that elections and the manner in which they're conducted the rules that apply and the way that votes are counted and reported are all, within the state province. They have nothing to do with the federal government.
So, you know, I think this is basically to desensitize America get them prepared for, interference that he intends in the midterms and certainly in 2028. And to try to tamper down the uproar that would typically come along with that if, if and when he does it
[19:40:06]
BURNETT: You know, Ty, there's a lot of stories out there right now that are very important here.
There's another one from "The Wall Street Journal", and I know you've seen this one. They're reporting that just before Trump's inauguration, four days before, the brother of the Emirati president paid half a billion dollars for a 49 percent stake in Trump's family crypto venture. So, half a billion dollars for that stake.
Then, of course, Trump is formally inaugurated, and the United States then agrees to give the Emirates its most advanced A.I. chips, which, of course, is a matter of intense national security. You told "The Wall Street Journal" when they were reporting on this really important story, that this sort of thing, quote, taints American foreign policy. That was your quote.
So, then, this weekend, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche was asked about your criticism, and I wanted to play for you, Ty, what he said
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TODD BLANCHE, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: I could have predicted what you just said he would say. That's what he says every time anything comes out about the president. I don't have a -- the president is ethical. The fact that Ty Cobb claims that he would have counseled something different to the president -- okay. I mean, that guy. I mean, I don't have a response to that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Okay. I mean, that guy, I don't have a response to that. What -- what's your response to him that just sort of dismissing it like that?
COBB: Well, I will say that, you know, the one thing I'm confident of is that I'm the least newsworthy, thing that he could have said and it was just, you know, I mean, he resorted to attacking me just because what he really couldn't respond to was how in the world could he describe what Trump did as ethical? I mean, I spent a career in the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act world, traveling the world on bribery and corruption, you know, and I've never seen it at a scale like the one that were now encountering with Trump.
You know, the $480 million plane from Qatar. You know, the -- this transaction in the UAE, you know, the host of -- the host of things that he's doing to loot the country and to shake down the world. It's astonishing. And no wonder Todd Blanche can't defend it.
BURNETT: Right. He didn't actually try to, right? He actually pivoted from the presidents ethical to, taking you down personally in that pejorative way.
Ty Cobb, thank you very much.
COBB: Yeah. My pleasure. Thank you, Erin.
BURNETT: All right.
And next, we are continuing to follow this breaking news out of Arizona. And this sudden, heavy police presence outside Nancy Guthrie's home.
Plus, Paul Rieckhoff and Gretchen Carlson are standing by in our green room. A lot to break down tonight, including Trump immigration agents. Trump admitting that they have gone too far.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:47:13]
BURNETT: Breaking news, President Trump saying no one is happy about two U.S. citizens, Renee Nicole Good and Alex Pretti, being killed by federal immigration agents in Minneapolis. Here's what he just said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I'm not happy with the two incidents. It's not -- you know, it's both of them, not one or the other. He was not an angel, and she was not an angel. You know, you look at some tapes from back, but still, I'm not happy with what happened there. Nobody can be happy. And ICE wasn't happy either.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right. For him, obviously, that's possibly significant. Trump, also admitting in his interview with NBC News that agents went too far with their tactics. Here's that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
INTERVIEWER: Speaking of Minneapolis, what did you learn?
TRUMP: I learned that maybe we can use a little bit of a softer touch, but you still have to be tough. These are criminals -- we're dealing with really hard criminals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Paul Rieckhoff and Gretchen Carlson are both OUTFRONT.
So, Gretchen, okay, actions speak a lot louder than words, right? Right. Especially with him, right? So, you know, he may say something and he may do something else.
Nonetheless for him, those are words that he does not like to utter. They could have used a softer touch. He didn't like what he saw. Are they significant?
GRETCHEN CARLSON, FORMER FOX NEWS HOST: Yes. Somebody got to him. Presumably the poles are the first thing that got to him because he's absolutely cratering in the polls on this issue.
Independents, 71 percent say excessive force is how they view ICE right now. That is abominable for any Republican running for the midterms right now. So, there's that.
But the thing that I worry about is, after he seemed to have a little empathy for the situation in Minnesota and two U.S. citizens murdered. Then last Friday night, he was asked about it on the red carpet, and he completely flipped again. So I'm worried now that these comments were from the last person who spoke to him before he went out to do this interview and went out --
BURNETT: Homan said, I'm going to pull back. And he said, no, no, no way.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: And so now I'm worried tomorrow that there'll be something different. But this is -- this is not necessarily that he's going to change the tactics with ICE. I think that this is him just expressing some empathy because he's hoping that he can get those people back on his side, who, by the way, the majority voted for him for this very issue, but he's mucked it up.
BURNETT: So, Paul, you know, Trump saying this, there's that ICE attorney context. This is kind of amazing, right? She sent to Minnesota to be adjudicating these cases. And the judge is frustrated because the ice keeps ignoring court orders. And so, she says to the judge, quote, "Sometimes I wish you would just hold me in contempt, your honor, so that I can have a full 24 hours of sleep. I work days and nights just because people are still in there. The system sucks, the job sucks.
What do you say to that? I mean, one can laugh at that and one can also say, it's pretty scary, all this is falling apart like this.
[19:50:05]
PAUL RIECKHOFF, HOST OF THE INDEPENDENT AMERICANS PODCAST: I bet the job does suck. And I think what's happening is that more people inside of ICE and around the system are expressing their views and have a conscience.
You know, I've appealed to the one third of ICE agents who are veterans to say, is this what you stand for? Are these the values that you feel like you're upholding?
I mean, going back to Trump's comments, I think it's really important to remember he called them domestic terrorists. Okay, ICE agents murdered them, and then the administration called them domestic terrorists and continue to try to ruin their character, say that somehow they deserved it or they were bad people.
Here's the bottom line. Most Americans do not like ICE. They do not like no warrants. They don't like masks. They don't like badges. They don't like someone who had a right to carry a firearm being shot in the streets. He's hitting every base, but he's not changing his strategy. He's still all gas and no brakes and pushing deeper into Portland and Phoenix and Utah.
He might be pulling back a bit in Minneapolis, but he's still pushing hard across the rest of the country.
BURNETT: Say focus on the actions and not just the words. Gretchen, I want to talk about something else with both of you. "The Washington Post", one in three employees laid off today. War zones. They cite losses. Now, Jeff Bezos, of course, has talked about this when he bought the
post. Right. He said this wasn't about losing money. He wanted to figure out a business model. Right. But that this was about morals and it was about democracy.
Here he is even in 2018.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF BEZOS, WASHINGTON POST OWNER: I was like, this is -- this is an important institution. It's really -- it is the newspaper in the capital city of the most important country in the world, "The Washington Post" has an incredibly important role to play in this democracy. There's just no doubt in my mind about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So, he says this, Gretchen, he's now worth a quarter of a trillion dollars. He just -- Amazon throws $70 million at the "Melania" production. That has $7 million -- I mean, the point is they can take losses wherever they want to take losses. He can take losses. But not here?
CARLSON: Well, oh, how things change from 2018. I mean, he now is presumably best friends with Donald Trump and did do this "Melania" wedding. I'm also going to remind you about the extravagant, ridiculous, over-the-top wedding that he had last year where you had protesters in Venice who were protesting for the waste of money.
So, none of this looks good from a PR point of view. And by the way, let me just say to all of these journalists who have lost their jobs, my heart breaks for them tonight. Tonight as well.
BURNETT: So many incredible people.
CARLSON: And they see Bezos spending money like that, and now they're out of a job. So again, it is not a good PR look. And maybe Bezos has learned this from hanging out with Trump.
BURNETT: Spent last week at Fashion Week.
RIECKHOFF: Yeah, I mean, I think "The Washington Post" motto was democracy dies in the dark. Well, they just darkened one third of "The Washington Post". They gutted one of the most esteemed and venerable media agencies in America.
And Trump's on plan. Trump is continuing to attack and erode the fourth estate. He wants to crush the media. He wants to stop anyone that's in his way. And "The Washington Post" is the latest example, and he's been very effective.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you both very much. And next new questions tonight about the heavy redactions in the Epstein files. Redactions of people, you know, who might have known things or seen things, who is the identity of someone who might have aided Epstein being protected
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:56:27]
BURNETT: Tonight, Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, formally Prince Andrew, has moved out of his longtime Windsor estate home after his brother, King Charles III, cast him out of the monarchy over the Jeffrey Epstein scandal.
That's a consequence, as the newly released Epstein documents include a picture of a man who appears to be Peter Mandelson, the former British ambassador to the United States, in his underwear alongside a woman whose face has been hidden. The photograph is gross, although I guess technically will say it doesn't suggest any wrongdoing. Mandelson told the BBC that he, quote, cannot place the location of the woman and I cannot think what the circumstances were.
Well, it comes as, back in the U.S., growing outrage over the redactions in the nearly three million pages of newly released documents related to Epstein is unfolding.
MJ Lee is OUTFRONT tonight with more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL ENTERPRISE CORRESPONDENT: The Justice Department under fire tonight, facing criticism for over-redacting information about individuals who may have aided Jeffrey Epstein. In a 2014 email released in the files, a person writes to Epstein, quote, "Thank you for a fun night. Your littlest girl was a little naughty," but the identity of the individual who wrote that message is redacted.
And in this image of Epstein's inner circle, from the files, we see associates like convicted coconspirator Ghislaine Maxwell and Epstein's assistant Leslie Groff, but several others in the graphic are blacked out.
The release files also showed numerous email exchanges that appear to describe the procurement of women. "New Brazilian just arrived sexy and cute, 19 years old," a 2013 email to Epstein reads from someone at a Paris modeling agency. That sender's name redacted.
"I found at least three very good young poor," a 2018 email to Epstein reads. "Meet this one," the person continues, "not the beauty queen, but we both liked her a lot." This sender's name also redacted. A DOJ official said in a statement to CNN. Any fully redacted names are of victims and many instances that it has been well-documented publicly, those who were originally victims became participants and coconspirators. We did not redact any names of men, only female victims. Names of law enforcement officers were also among the redactions.
Also included in the released Epstein files, a highly controversial draft indictment from the 2000s that would have charged Epstein, along with three others. They were described as having been employed by Epstein and having conspired to persuade, induce and entice individuals who had not attained the age of 18 years to engage in prostitution. Their names are redacted.
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): So, you have a Justice Department that's leadership cared more about protecting the men who committed these crimes than the survivors who were victims of the crime.
LEE (voice-over): The law that forced the DOJ to release the Epstein files mandates the DOJ to make certain redactions, such as identifying information about victims and child pornography. Some individuals who helped connect Epstein with young women were also victims. Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, acknowledging errors were made and that his department is working around the clock to correct failures to redact victims' information.
BLANCHE: You're talking about pieces of paper that stack from the ground to two Eiffel Towers, and so the minute that a victim or their lawyer reached out to us, since Friday, we immediately dealt with it and pulled it down, and we're continuing to do that, we knew that there would be mistakes.
LEE (voice-over): Epstein survivors are outraged.
SHARLENE ROCHARD, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: Publishing images of victims while shielding predators, it's just a failure of complete justice. Why should anybody come forward? Because the justice system is not going to be the justice system.
LEE (voice-over): MJ Lee, CNN, Washington, D.C.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Thanks to MJ for continued incredible reporting on this.
And thanks to all of you for joining us tonight.
"AC360" begins now.
