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Erin Burnett Outfront
Five U.S. States Monitoring Passengers Back From Virus-Hit Cruise; New Explosions In Iran; Tennessee Erases Only Democratic District. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired May 07, 2026 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:25]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Breaking news, the race to stop a deadly hantavirus outbreak. Five states in the United States now monitoring passengers who have just returned from the cruise ship hit by the outbreak. Three people on board that ship have died.
A doctor who is on board that ship right now and has been treating passengers joins me.
Also breaking, new explosions in Iran tonight. The U.S. military claims Iran fired missiles and drones at three U.S. warships in the strait of Hormuz, and the United States is retaliating.
And Tennessee just passing a law that eliminates the only Democratic district in the entire state. The congressman who currently holds that seat is our guest.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
(MUSIC)
BURNETT: And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
And OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news, the race to contain a deadly outbreak. Health officials around the world are scrambling to retrace the steps of passengers who were on a cruise ship with a hantavirus outbreak.
Now, tonight, we know of five confirmed cases at this hour. Officials in the U.S. are monitoring a number of people who were on that ship and have disembarked. Now, though, there are me passengers who are already back from the cruise, and we know the state some of them are in in the U.S., California, Georgia, Arizona, Texas and Virginia. Now, no word of any of the people in those states showing any symptoms as of now. But we do know the incubation period for this hantavirus strain is potentially very long, up to six weeks. In fact, health officials recommend doubling the incubation period to be absolutely certain a person is virus free.
Now, those are the people who've left the ship, quite a few of them. But the majority of passengers do remain on that ship tonight quarantined, including an American doctor from Oregon, Dr. Stephen Kornfeld. He has been helping care for sick passengers. He said the doctor, the ship's doctor, had to be evacuated when he had contracted the virus. Dr. Kornfeld took over. He's going to join me in just a moment from that ship.
But there is a scramble across many countries tonight as well. In France, authorities are monitoring eight people who had close contact with a confirmed case. One of those individuals is now displaying what's being described as mild symptoms, and no one knows just how far this will go.
The cruise ship is now expected to arrive in Spain's Canary Islands this weekend, and it's unclear if the passengers on board have been exposed to hantavirus or not. You know, obviously people on board died, but its unclear if everyone on board was exposed or not. Some may not have been the fatality rate of the virus is up to 40 percent.
Tonight, we are hearing what the captain of the ship told passengers, though when the first person on board died of the virus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAN DOBROGOWSKI, CAPTAIN, MV HONDIUS: One of the passengers sadly passed away last night, tragic as it is, it was due to natural causes, we believe, and also whatever health issues people struggling with I'm told by the doctor were not infectious. So, the ship is safe when it comes to that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now, of course, at the time, they only knew what they knew. It obviously was infectious. It was the hantavirus, but that's what they thought then. And that determined how it was handled from there.
Brian Todd is OUTFRONT to begin our coverage. He's in Arlington, Virginia, and that's one of the states I mentioned, Brian, where health officials are monitoring a cruise. A passenger from that ship.
So, what more are you learning?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, health officials here in the state of Virginia say it is their understanding that there were fewer than 30 U.S. citizens on board that vessel, the MV Hondius health officials across the United States telling CNN they are monitoring at least three people who disembarked from the Hondius and have returned back to the United States. Officials in Georgia say that two residents there are under observation, and they have shown no symptoms. Health officials in Arizona say there's one person there who they're monitoring who is also asymptomatic, but also one person here in the state of Virginia who disembarked from the Hondius in recent days and has come back to this state, is being monitored. That person so far, they say, is okay.
Here is a statement we got just a few hours ago from the Virginia Department of Health saying this, quote, "To date, one Virginia traveler who was on the MV Hondius disembarked the ship and has returned home. This person is currently in good health and is under public health monitoring. A small number, five or fewer of other potentially exposed Virginians might be identified in the days ahead."
[19:05:00]
And they say, "Generally speaking, we believe the risk the general public to be low."
That is a statement from officials here. Health officials in the state of Virginia. There is another web page that is reporting that -- a medical web page that is reporting that other Americans from the U.S. have disembarked and returned to the state of Texas. There is also information that Americans have returned to the state of California, as you mentioned, Erin.
Now, as far as the fears of a COVID 19 type outbreak, we know that the WHO has said that they do expect more cases to emerge, but they do not expect a large epidemic like COVID 19. But as you've been reporting, Erin, the danger here is that so many passengers have already disembarked from the U.S. and gotten on airplanes and flown to places all over the world, including, we know, at least people -- at least four people being monitored in several states here in the United States.
BURNETT: Brian Todd, thank you very much, in Virginia tonight.
OUTFRONT now, Dr. Stephen Kornfeld, he's on board the hantavirus hit cruise ship. And he has helped care for sick passengers.
And, Doctor, I very much appreciate your time.
Of course, you're on that ship right now. And you started out just as a passenger. But you're a doctor. So, when this started, you ended up helping treat people, including the ships doctor. How did that happen?
DR. STEPHEN KORNFIELD, CARED FOR SICK PASSENGERS ABOARD HANTAVIRUS-HIT CRUISE SHIP: It sort of happened gradually. I knew one of the passengers was getting ill. This is at the end of April, and I just reached out and asked if I could assist the doc, make sure he felt he had adequate coverage, and I was told that the doctor was also sick.
So over 12 to 24 hours, it became clear that there were a number of people sick and that they were getting sicker. And it sort of -- I sort of fell into the role of becoming the ship doctor.
BURNETT: I know you treated the ships doctor and that he was eventually you were telling us actually evacuated off the ship, which left you caring for other patients as well. Can you describe the sorts of symptoms that you've seen, Doctor?
KORNFIELD: Well, there are three patients that seem to be getting ill around the same time. One of them just very nonspecific symptoms, a lot of confusion and a lot of weakness. And she ultimately passed away relatively quickly. The two other gentlemen, quite a bit younger, including the doc, just had a lot of standard viral symptoms, a lot of fever, fatigue, flushing, some G.I. issues, some shortness of breath. At the time, neither one of them looked critically ill, but the fear with hantavirus is you can go from seriously ill to critically ill very, very quickly.
BURNETT: You know, a woman yesterday who had survived hantavirus was telling us exactly that doctor. She had sort of flu-like symptoms. Suddenly she -- in her case, it was a cough as her lungs filled and she ends up in a medically induced coma on lung life support.
How concerned are you about the potential for things to escalate? And for those patients, even now that some of them have been evacuated.
KORNFIELD: Well, when they're on the ship, I'm very concerned because the ability to treat somebody at that critical state here on this boat is nonexistent. But now that they've been evacuated, they're in Denmark. I mean, they're getting magnificent care. Even if such an event happened, they would get supported.
And I think what happens with hantavirus ultimate survivability is really dependent on your ability to get critical care at the right time and on the boat, that would not be possible. But now that they're in, you know, home and standard hospitals, that's entirely possible. So, my concern level for them now low, which is very relieving.
BURNETT: I can only imagine, especially as you cared for them. And what is your feeling right now? I mean, you and everyone else on board, you're stuck there essentially quarantined. And I know you don't know when you'll necessarily be able to get off. But also with the long incubation period of this virus and, and even in your case, Doctor, of course, just to be blunt, you were treating people who had it. How concerned are you about getting sick?
KORNFIELD: Early on, we didn't know that it was hantavirus until maybe May 3rd, May 2nd, May 3rd. But I started treating for people first. Just kind of have a feeling that this could be infectious. So, from the beginning, I was trying to be very careful with masks and gowns. And once we found out it was hantavirus.
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And a second case happened, making it seem likely there was an infectious form, I was able to find some aprons and some goggles. I did a lot of hand-washing and clothes washing. I think hantavirus is hard to spread even though on the ship it seemed to spread.
BURNETT: And Dr. Kornfeld, do you and everyone else that's on the -- on board right now, just given that you have no idea when you can get off and if you'll be allowed to, you know, what is the mood and how long do you think you'll be on board this ship?
KORNFIELD: Well, I may be in a different circumstance than the other passengers because I had a lot more contact than they did. And we've been on this boat for five weeks, and the original patient episode was many, many weeks ago. And the remainder of the patients, patients, passengers have really had no contact with any of the sick people recently. So, in some ways, most of the people on the boat have been in quarantine isolation for three, four weeks.
So, I'm feeling pretty good. Most people will get off the boat relatively rapidly. We now have two. During the evacuation, we were able to get two WHO epidemiologists and two Danish ID. doctors. So, now, there's a great team on board who is really going through every aspect of this infection, how it spread and what it means for the passengers remaining, both for their health and for their possible transmission down the road. So I'm feeling pretty good that most people will get off the boat relatively soon, and hopefully I will get off soon, also.
BURNETT: Well, I mean, it's incredible what you're able to do. And when that doctor got sick that you stepped in at that moment when there was no one, how lucky all of them were to have you there on -- on that boat as you are there tonight.
And thank you so much, doctor, for talking to me and for taking the time. Please stay well, and we'll talk to you soon, I hope.
KORNFIELD: Thank you
BURNETT: I want to go now to Joseph Allen. He's professor at Harvard University School of Public Health.
And look, it's great to talk to you again, Joseph. You studied disease exposure. We've talked so many times. You were part of the Lancet's COVID commission.
So when you hear dr. Kornfeld talking about the situation on board, you know, when they realized it was infectious and his role, obviously, in helping the ship doctor treat patients and then helping then treating the ship doctor himself, who then was evacuated, you know, what do you take away from everything that you just heard?
JOSEPH ALLEN, PROFESSOR, HARVARD UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Well, it's good to talk again. Unfortunately, Erin, but a couple of things that I take away.
First, what's happening on the ship is quite severe. This is a serious virus. And you hear it from the doctor. And we're very fortunate he stepped up.
But there are a couple of things that catch my attention in that last segment when he was speaking. I think it's great. He's taking precautions like aprons and goggles and hand washing. But there is evidence that hantavirus, the Andes strain, spreads human to human through the air. In fact, our best prior knowledge about transmission of this virus shows that it can be transmitted pretty effectively, with no direct contact.
So, I would urge him and everyone on that ship and everyone treating these patients who are infected to pay attention to the things we've talked about all throughout COVID, good ventilation and good filtration.
BURNETT: So, let me just talk about something you said there, because this is obviously the crucial question, right? This whole issue of whether its droplet spread or airborne, this is a strain of a virus that I know people know about. You know, there was an outbreak before. They were able -- they contained it. They shut down an area in Argentina. They contained it.
So, what makes you -- in what you're seeing have this concern about airborne, which obviously is something that can affect where this goes from here. Significantly?
ALLEN: Yeah. Erin, I think there were early and obvious signs even before we did the sequencing to determine what strain this is. Remember there's the hantavirus normally spread through rodent droppings, but there is a strain, the Andes strain that is spread human to human. And there was evidence that was happening early on before we even knew it was the Andes strain, because one person infected someone. Many weeks later, the ship doctor is sick. Prior investigations have shown pretty efficient spread without any direct contact.
So, we knew this was spread not just through, you know, definitely through human to human, but also through the air. And that means we have to take these additional precautions once again, just like our many discussions during COVID, I hear a lot of great precautions being taken, a great investigations being done, but very little about what is happening with the ships systems in terms of the ventilation, filtration, keeping people safe. And that hasn't fully been communicated.
The acting CDC director put out a message today that says, this is not spread. It's only spread through direct contact. But the New England Journal of Medicine Article about that prior outbreak is very clear that there are many instances where there is spread with no direct contact at all.
[19:15:06]
BURNETT: Right. Which is obviously crucial. You heard Dr. Kornfeld talking about how long everyone's been on board and what a quarantine might really mean in context of the long incubation period. And we have a question from one of our viewers.
They asked, it's said that it can take eight weeks to become symptomatic. The passengers shouldn't be allowed into the public until they're completely cleared.
You know, what -- do you -- is that a fair way to look at this? I mean, how long do you think people should be quarantined who are either on that ship or in contact with someone who was there?
ALLEN: Yeah. I mean, this is the big challenge with this virus. The long incubation period. And now we have people scattered really around the globe that are being properly tracked, isolated, quarantined.
And again, we can look at the past literature. That study was very in depth about the prior outbreak. And they did get it under control. But what they did was they quarantined and isolated people for 40 days because of the long incubation period.
So unfortunately, this is a key factor in us trying to figure out how do we keep people safe, how do we prevent further spread? I mean, we're all tracking right now is that potential secondary spread? And then how do we minimize those who are infected from infecting others?
BURNETT: All right. Joseph Allen, thank you very much. And if any of you have any questions about hantavirus, obviously, we just shared one with the professor. Send them to us. You can email us at OUTFRONT@CNN.com. And you can also record your questions on video or audio. Send them to us and we'll ask the experts.
And next, breaking news in Tennessee. Just passing a law to eliminate the only Democratic House seat in that state. They move very fast. Mass chaos, in fact, broke out in the state capitol as this all went down. The Democratic congressman from that district is our guest tonight.
Next. Plus punished for speaking out. CNN speaks exclusively tonight to inmates who served time with Epstein's accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell. They claim that they are being punished for revealing the special treatment that Maxwell has received in prison.
And more breaking news this hour. The U.S. claims Iran tried to strike U.S. warships. The U.S. is meantime retaliating with strikes, explosions heard in Iran. Retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton and Nazila Fathi are my guests. They are up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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BURNETT: Breaking news, America striking Iran. The United States just launching new strikes inside Iran. These are the first strikes since the ceasefire took effect a month ago. Obviously, a very significant development.
And the U.S. says they did it because Iran fired drones and missiles at three navy warships traveling through the Strait of Hormuz. CENTCOM says that in response, the U.S., quote, targeted Iranian military facilities responsible for attacking U.S. forces, including missile and drone launch sites, command and control locations, and intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance nodes.
I read all of that because I just want to make the point. Theres a lot of plurals there, and that's a long list. U.S. officials saying multiple locations were hit. They're talking about those. You could see several islands there off the Strait of Hormuz and in the -- in the strait. And Iran's military is also reporting damage to some of these locations.
Now, the back and forth happening even as U.S. officials say, sure. First strikes in Iran since the ceasefire and this whole long laundry list of places that we hit. But the ceasefire is still on. And then President Trump went on ABC mocking the whole thing, saying
that this was a, quote, "love tap" and that the ceasefire is still in effect.
Retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton is OUTFRONT, along with Nazila Fathi, former "New York Times" correspondent based in Tehran for ten years.
Thanks so much to both of you.
Colonel Leighton, okay, these are the first strikes in Iran since the cease fire 40 days ago. And that was a long list, right? They're saying that it targeted, multiple types of facilities and they had a plural on everything. So, it seems like it was quite a few strikes which are acknowledged by both sides.
COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yeah, that's absolutely right, Erin. And one of the things to note is that Bandar Abbas was one of the areas that they hit. Bandar Abbas is the headquarters of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps Navy. And so, this is a major --
BURNETT: That's been obliterated, colonel.
LEIGHTON: Well, yeah. So, they -- so they told us, right, Erin? But --
BURNETT: Many times it's been obliterated. Yeah.
LEIGHTON: And that's the thing, you know, when you talk about obliteration, you got to be really careful with the terminology because it's very hard. And I say this as an Air Force guy, it's very hard to eliminate these kinds of targets totally.
And the Iranians have practiced this for years. They've developed a doctrine which basically is a doctrine of survivability. What they've done is they've taken a lot of their sites and made them into not necessarily impregnable areas, but what they've done is they've established redundancies. And so, what you're seeing is a lot of this stuff that's coming back is really the stuff that they're holding in reserve and they're having -- they're using it to make those attacks on those three destroyers, and they're doing it in a way that's actually pretty effective for a country that has really been hit hard by the U.S.
BURNETT: Yeah, which they have, even if claims of obliteration obviously don't add up. But the damage has been incredibly severe.
Nazila, but when Trump calls this a love tap, mocking it, essentially the strikes that the U.S. did, he then went ahead and posted on social media a threat, saying, quote, we'll knock them out a lot harder and a lot more violently in the future. If they don't get their deal signed fast. I'm just curious, Nazila, at this point, when you say love tap, you do this, you say wipe them off the map, civilization gone. Then yesterday you say there's no end point for some kind of a negotiated settlement. At this point, Nazila, how does the Iranian regime view Trump's
threats?
NAZILA FATHI, FORMER NEW YORK TIMES CORRESPONDENT BASED IN TEHRAN FOR TEN YEARS: Erin, I think Iranians see very clearly, and they say it, that President Trump is still prioritizing coercion. And they keep on saying that it doesn't work.
[19:25:00]
They keep showing in their actions that coercion doesn't work. And, you know, this has become a very dangerous game plan in the Persian Gulf.
I mean, it shows how fragile the ceasefire is. Iran immediately put out two statements, not one, Iran's IRGC, naval force and Khatam al- Anbiya the operational branch of IRGC. They both put out a statement saying that Iran retaliated because it was first an Iranian oil vessel that came under attack. So, I think both sides are trying to downplay what happened. But the truth of the matter is that there were a lot of strikes. And, you know, this is a very dangerous situation. And it all started to escalate this week after Freedom Project was put into effect.
BURNETT: And, Colonel Leighton, you know, "The Washington Post' has this new reporting. Theres a lot in there, but they got a confidential CIA analysis, and it showed several important things. One underlying, Seth Jones and CSIS reporting. But just how much capability, even after all these massive strikes, that Iran still retains in terms of missiles and capability, and also that Iran could survive the U.S. naval blockade for three to four months before experiencing significant economic pain.
Now, they don't express exactly how that's defined. Iran's already experiencing economic pain, but they think that that's survivable for three to four months now, that would seem that that might be a lot. If they're right. That's a CIA analysis that Iran has a lot longer runway on this than the west.
LEIGHTON: Yeah, I think that's the case. I think the CIA report is spot on, actually. And the reason I say that is because the Iranians have you know, done some homework on this. They have expected attacks like this for a very long time, basically for decades. And they know that there are so many different things that they had to do in order to make the regime more survivable.
BURNETT: Yeah.
LEIGHTON: They are used to, as Nazila I'm sure will tell you, they are used to a lot of hardship, and they can also have a bunch of redundancies. And we have to remember, you know, they border through the Caspian Sea, Russia, and they have a lifeline that way as well. So, it's not that they're just cut off through the Persian Gulf.
BURNETT: Nazila something happened today that hasn't happened before and that is that somebody in Iranian leadership said that they met with the supreme leader. Right? We've heard the statements. No one has said that before.
President Pezeshkian said he met for 2-1/2 hours recently with the supreme leader. Now, what do you make of the fact that he is saying this? Now, as I said, this is the first time any top Iranian official since the war began has said that they met with the supreme leader.
FATHI: Erin, I think they're preparing the public, maybe for his appearance, but basically the other message is that he's alive and he's not in a critical condition. Even if he was. I think that's the major message that they are trying to give, because a lot of people inside the country believe he's dead.
BURNETT: Wow. And I guess that's just a point of saying I saw him. You're putting your own credibility on the line.
All right. Thank you both very much, I appreciate it.
Next, an OUTFRONT exclusive, inmates who served time with Jeffrey Epstein's former accomplice are telling CNN they face retaliation for calling out Ghislaine Maxwell and the special perks she's received
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
INMATE: Bottled waters and clam shell meals delivered to her room.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And also breaking right now, Tennessee Republicans just wiped out the only Democratic district in the state. They moved with speed.
Congressman Steve Cohen, whose district just got eliminated, is OUTFRONT.
And John Aavlon and Margaret Hoover are also with me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:33:00]
BURNETT: Breaking news, the Tennessee governor tonight signing a bill that could eliminate the only Democratic House seat in the state. And what happened? Mass chaos erupted. This is the scene inside the state capitol. Republican lawmakers voted to do it. They carve up the only Democratic district to now favor the GOP.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAMERON SEXTON (R), TENNESSEE STATE HOUSE SPEAKER: Trooper, please pull her off that balcony over there. Please clear out the balcony. Leader Lambert. Mr. Clark --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I yield. I yield the remainder of my time.
SEXTON: Leader Lambert yields the rest of his time. We're voting. We are voting on the bill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: You can hear the cacophony there, the chaos, and see the state Democratic lawmakers. They were linking arms to protest the move as protesters there, you heard the chant.
What they were saying was, no Jim Crow. The district is not just home to the only Democratic Congress seat in the state. Steve Cohen has that seat. He's going to join me in just a moment. It also is a majority black district.
And that led to this fiery rebuke of the move
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GLORIA JOHNSON (D), TENNESSEE STATE REPRESENTATIVE: This is not a special session. This is a white power rally and a white power grab. Vote yes. You're telling everyone you're a racist
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Democratic Congressman Steve Cohen is now OUTFRONT.
Congressman, do you agree with what she said there, that anyone who voted for this, it just might as well admit it, you're a racist?
REP. STEVE COHEN (D-TN): Well, they are followers of people who don't care about racist actions or racist effects on their actions. This is done to promote Donald Trump and to save him from having a Democratic majority in the next House, and to have his corruption exposed through vigorous oversight.
And that's what will happen.
[19:35:00]
And they don't want -- they want to get every seat they can. This seat is an African American majority seat. It's elected -- it's elected me. And it shows the African American population votes on issues, and they choose the candidate of their choice. It's a beautiful example of how America can work racist, working together and having a good democratic process. And they totally tore it asunder.
This was the work of Dr. King, of John Lewis, and they tore that apart. Who would have thought that could have happened? One of the great bills passed in the last half of the 20th century, the Voting Rights Act, to make up for slavery, to make up for Jim Crow, to make up for all of the awful things that have happened to African Americans in this country, to give them an opportunity, when possible, to have a district created where they can elect a congressman of their choosing.
Instead, they go back to the equivalent of how many -- how many beans are in this jar, how many bubbles are on the bar of soap? Paying a literacy tax, claiming that race neutral. This was not race neutral. BURNETT: So, you know, obviously, you're talking about this is --
this is a part of a broader game where everybody's trying to redistrict and they're trying to get these seats. And Trump wants to retain the House.
I know that you have vowed, Congressman, to sue the state. Do you have confidence that that will prevail? I mean, obviously you would do it even if you didn't think it would prevail. Youd do it for a statement. But do you actually think you have a chance?
COHEN: I think we have a chance. In 2022, the Supreme Court, which is similar, not totally the same, but similar, ruled that a similar case that tried to change the Constitution was too late because of the Purcell rule, which is a federal standard that says you can't do things too close to election time. That was even further away than this case is.
Our filing deadline was in March. That was in April. So it's a much different and people have been had filed for office, March 10th, did not withdraw March 17th, have been campaigning and spending campaign money and planning campaigns. And people are picking sides and endorsing and not endorsing.
That's the process. It started. And to stop it here will confuse people in the district. And the courts have ruled against such actions, and they may do it again and put it off until 2028. And I think there's a relatively good chance that will occur.
After 2028, there might be other arguments. I mean, they said this wasn't race, but they divided a majority black district in Memphis, which happened not because the Voting Rights Act, but simply because the population was such. And to have a compact district with people of community interest made for a majority black district, this, this district, they broke it up.
One of the districts has 29 percent black. Another has 29 percent black, and the other has 31 percent black. The odds of that happening randomly not very good. That's shows a hint of racism.
BURNETT: All right. I appreciate your time, Congressman. Thank you very much.
Congressman Cohen, as he said, he's been serving for 20 years in that seat.
COHEN: You're welcome.
BURNETT: And obviously this redistricting makes it essentially almost a certainty that that he will lose that seat.
John Avlon and Margaret Hoover are here with me.
So how significant is this just happen?
JOHN AVLON, FORMER CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Huge. It's a direct downstream effect of the Supreme Court and the Louisiana decision, which the Supreme Court basically said that trying to ensure racial representation is not going to be allowed, but partisan power grabs will be allowed. And of course, particularly in the Deep South, it's the same thing. I mean, you've got over 1.1 million Black citizens in Tennessee. Youve got, you know, more independents and Democrats than Republicans. And now they're following through on their jamming through the elimination, the stated elimination of the old Democratic district. This is incredibly dangerous for democracy.
BURNETT: You know, Margaret, it's also that if you're -- if you're watching this from home, you know, Gavin Newsom did in California and, you know, Abbott did in Texas and maybe, you know, Virginia and North Carolina, I mean, it's been happening, but then something like this pops up and I'm thinking, how many more of these could pop out sort of out of nowhere that actually really determined for almost certain a seat.
MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Not that many more because legislative sessions in states are almost over. I mean, most of them wrap up now or in June is the latest that they go. So -- and it's like a couple of states. So, I -- this is one of the last to pop up. I don't anticipate many more.
BURNETT: Flood or something like that.
HOOVER: Yeah. There's not going to be like every other state is going to do this. Now the arms race is essentially dying down.
Look, what I -- what I would say is the consequences of the Supreme Court's ruling on Section Two of the Voting Rights Act is going to be continue to be felt.
AVLON: That's right.
HOOVER: There are other remedies besides the Supreme Court interpreting the Voting Rights Act as they have. For example, Congress could pass a law that is very clear about what voting rights should mean in the states at the federal level, so that there is no question how the justices should interpret the law.
And what the court has been trying to do in many cases over many years.
[19:40:02]
And this is where a perfectly nice evening with my husband at CNN, and then dinner goes crazy, the court has been begging Congress to legislate and actually do the writing of the laws so that we are not living our lives based on whichever compositions of the court's interpretation last stands.
AVLON: But my Republican bride ignores the fact that she's on the right side of this personally. But the Republicans are the one who will block that kind of thing.
The only way to deescalate this arms race, this partisan arms race we're going to see in red states and blue states, but the reason this matters is the states of the former confederacy is for Congress to do its job and pass a federal law. That's the only way to deescalate this, and that's what's going to need to be done.
HOOVER: That's what I said.
AVLON: I know. The problem is Republicans are the ones who've been blocking that.
HOOVER: But November is coming.
AVLON: Yes. And that'll be a step in the right direction, hopefully.
BURNETT: We'll see.
HOOVER: Obviously, it's not going to happen. Obviously, this Congress isn't going to pass.
BURNETT: I mean, that's a seat that just went. I mean, you know, it's like you got to --
HOOVER: If you add up the House and you look at the -- I mean, I don't know, you can -- you can read the tea leaves, but I think, you know, it looks like November is going a certain direction, no matter how many ones or twos here and there that Trump can cobble together.
BURNETT: So, John, you just wrote a piece in "Rolling Stone" and you warned about something that you and I have actually talked about on this show for, shall I say, 15 years. I'm going to I'm going to play it in a second. But basically, this is America's debt passed 100 percent of GDP.
Now, in other countries, say Argentina or others. That has been sort of the line that was a harbinger of a crisis, a complete crisis. Okay?
So, now, let me just play the fact that you've been consistent on this issue. Republicans have not been. But here you are.
AVLON: Right.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AVLON: Everyone's been warned. This is not subtle. Everyone should be clear in their mind about the importance of dealing with our deficit and our debt, if you want our country on a long-term sound fiscal footing and everybody should.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I'm torn at looking at things like that, that I like it. Okay.
(LAUGHTER)
BURNETT: It is what it is. You know what? We're all still together.
AVLON: That's right. BURNETT: That is something to celebrate.
AVLON: That's a win.
BURNETT: Okay. But, you know, you've been consistent. But back to the -- you're talking here about Republicans and Democrats on gerrymandering on this issue. I remember when Tom Coburn wrote a book about this, okay, this was the Republican issue, the debt.
HOOVER: Yeah.
BURNETT: And now, it's just crickets.
AVLON: It's crickets. But it's a slow-moving crisis. I mean, it's not that we're in Argentina, but historically, when GDP -- when debt outpaces GDP, that is very dangerous and destabilizing for Republicans and empires alike. And the fact is, it almost that milestone almost passed unnoticed. And it can't.
BURNETT: And you saw -- we're talking about this 15 years ago because 15 years ago it was clear this was happening. We talk about slow moving, right? That's that -- back then, it was clear.
AVLON: And even worse. 25 years ago, we had climbed our way out of that hole, at least with regard to the deficit, by the way, had a zero deficit.
HOOVER: By the way, with a Republican House of Representatives and speaker. So, it was -- I mean, it actually was a genuinely bipartisan effort to get it done. I mean, Bill Clinton would have done it on his own had Newt Gingrich not held his feet to the fire.
And they did get it done together. It has to be done together. We're way too polarized and partisan to do it now. But you're right.
AVLON: But George W. Bush squandered it by getting tax cuts before 9/11, because that was the focus and that's how we got here.
HOOVER: I have to wrap, but I take issue with that. Okay, fine.
BURNETT: Well, I believe that there --
HOOVER: I mean, it's not like the fiscal the bailout of 2008 --
BURNETT: Our conversation will take a pause, but your conversation will continue as you are Hoavlon and they are married. And so they will continue.
All right. Thanks.
And next, inmate serving time with Epstein coconspirator Ghislaine Maxwell speaking out about her and the special treatment they say she is getting. Now, they say they're being punished.
Plus, Secretary of State Marco Rubio is presenting the pope with the strange gift of a glass football deal toy looking thing. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:47:55]
BURNETT: Tonight, an OUTFRONT exclusive. Jeffrey Epstein accomplice Ghislaine Maxwell's fellow inmates are speaking out tonight about Maxwell and the special treatment she received and how they say prison officials punished them for talking about it, for criticizing Maxwell.
Maxwell, of course, is serving a 20-year prison sentence and is seeking a pardon now in exchange for her testimony about Epstein's network.
So, let's go straight to MJ Lee, who has spoken to these women.
And, MJ, what exactly are these inmates alleging happened after Maxwell arrived at their facility?
MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL ENTEPRISE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Erin, we are hearing for the first time from inmates who served time with Ghislaine Maxwell, and they say that they were punished after speaking out about her. You'll remember last summer, Maxwell was suddenly and mysteriously transferred to a minimum security prison camp in Bryan, Texas. It made little sense at the time because a convicted child sex offender is not typically allowed to serve time at a minimum-security facility like that.
And adding to the intrigue at the time was that this was right after Maxwell had had this unusual two day interview with the deputy attorney general, Todd Blanche.
Julie Howell was one inmate at Bryan who was really upset about all of this. She says she consulted the inmates' handbook, which said that she could talk to media, and she decided to respond to a reporter at "The Telegraph" who had reached out.
Here's a little bit of what Julie told me in her first interview since her prison sentence recently ended.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JULIE HOWELL, FORMER BRYAN PRISON CAMP INMATE: And so I was a little, I guess I don't use the word lightly. It was like a trigger because of, you know, my experience with my daughter being trafficked and just knowing all of the research I had done, that the camps are supposed to be for nonviolent offenders.
I was very upset about her being moved. I said, you know, I had spoken with other inmates. Nobody was happy about her being there. You know, one -- we had, we all felt like we were being punished for her being there. And then given her crime, she shouldn't be there, per BOP policies and procedures.
[19:50:01]
And so, it just -- it was very unfair. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And several days after she sends that message to the reporter through her husband, Julie says she gets called into the lieutenant's office. She doesn't know what's going on, but she quickly realizes that she's in trouble
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWELL: He says, you know, did you speak to a reporter? He said, well, it's all over the world wide web. I waited in a cell for, I don't know, I think it was less than an hour.
The warden came in, asked, like what I was thinking, said that her phone was blowing up all weekend. I ruined her weekend. You know, I shouldn't have talked to them.
And I did apologize. I mean, at this point, I'm a little teary eyed. I said, you know, I didn't mean to cause issues. I answered a question. And when I told her that my daughter had, you know, a trafficking experience, she rolled her eyes and flipped her hair back. And she was like, it's too late for apologies, and walked out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEE: Now, Julie was written up and sent to a higher security facility in Houston, and she is now on supervised release. The warden of the Bryan prison, Erin, declined to comment for this story.
BURNETT: Wow. All right. So, these retaliation claims, MJ, obviously are very significant. But you've also uncovered new allegations about how Maxwell was treated inside that facility. I mean, what did the inmates who were there with her describe to you?
LEE: Yeah. You know, we spoke with the second inmate, who was also at Bryan. She is anonymous. She's not going to be on camera because she's still serving time and is afraid of being punished even more. She described a very similar experience, where she spoke with a reporter over the phone about Maxwell as well, and immediately she says, she was kicked out of Bryan. This inmate overlapped with Maxwell for a number of weeks and says that she saw the special treatment that Maxwell was getting at the time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
INMATE: Within a day of her arrival, we had armed guards, marshals patrolling. If she had a visitation, she would get to -- they closed the chapel and the indoor rec and allowed her to use that, building for her personal visits when we had visitation that happened in the visitation building, which is good. We didn't, you know, no one wanted to hang around the kids or anything. She'd get bottled waters and clamshell meals delivered to her room.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEE: A BOP spokesperson told CNN that the bureau does not discuss details related to specific inmates, and that it is committed to maintaining the highest standards of integrity, impartiality and professionalism in the operation of its facilities.
Now, inmates can communicate with members of the media with prior approval, they said. Though one prison expert that I spoke with said that it is absolutely not typical for an inmate to be punished for speaking to a reporter, Erin.
The DOJ and lawyers for Maxwell did not respond to requests for comment.
BURNETT: It's just incredible to actually hear people, though, talking and answering all those questions to you.
MJ, thank you.
And next, Pope Leos reaction after the longtime baseball fan gets a glass football from Secretary of State Marco Rubio.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:57:18]
BURNETT: Tonight, what do you give as a gift to the pope? For Marco Rubio, it was on his trip after Trump's unprecedented attacks against the pope. It was this glass football object.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: A baseball guy. But when it has the seal of the State Department. So --
POPE LEO XIV, CATHOLIC CHURCH: Okay.
RUBIO: It -- what to get someone who has everything
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Christopher Lamb is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On a mission to cool the rhetoric --
POPE LEO XIV: Mr. Secretary, it's great to see you.
LAMB (voice-over): -- Secretary of State Marco Rubio meeting Pope Leo XIV, at a time when President Donald Trump has launched a series of broadsides against the first American pontiff.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think he's very weak on crime.
I'm not a fan of Pope Leo.
LAMB (voice-over): In what has been an extraordinary and unprecedented clash.
POPE LEO XIV: I don't want to get into a debate with him.
LAMB (voice-over): This meeting an attempt to get back to old- fashioned diplomacy.
MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: And it has the seal of the State Department. So --
POPE LEO XIV: OK.
LAMB (voice-over): Both sides, at least publicly, downplaying the verbal fisticuffs. Officially, the pair discussing the situation in the Middle East and other conflicts and a, quote, "shared commitment" to promoting peace. The Vatican saying Cuba was also discussed, with Rubio saying beforehand that was on the agenda.
RUBIO: They won't allow us to give their own people more humanitarian aid. And we're willing to do it through the church. So, there's a lot to talk about.
LAMB (voice-over): But deep disagreements remain. Leo would likely speak out against any violent intervention in Cuba and has been vocal in his opposition to the Iran war, something which has irked the president.
TRUMP: The pope would rather talk about the fact that it's OK for Iran to have a nuclear weapon. And I don't think that's very good. I think he's endangering a lot of Catholics and a lot of people.
LAMB (voice-over): The pope even correcting the record and showing no signs of backing down.
POPE LEO XIV (through translator): If anyone wants to criticize me for proclaiming the gospel, let them do so with the truth. The church has spoken out against all nuclear weapons for years. So, there is no doubt.
LAMB (voice-over): The first American pope's leadership has offered a stark contrast to the president, not just speaking out on war, but criticizing the, quote, "inhuman treatment" of immigrants in the U.S. and calling for protection of the environment and in a language the White House can understand.
POPE LEO XIV: I'm told that President Trump recently stated that he would like to end the war. Hopefully, he's looking for an off ramp.
LAMB (voice-over): Leo, marking the one-year anniversary of his election, has said he has no fear of the Trump administration and won't compromise on the core message of his papacy, the desire to pursue peace.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAMB: Well, Erin, everyone I've spoken to about Pope Leo say he's not a confrontational character, but it is clear when President Trump says something that Leo feels is untrue, he does feel the need to respond and correct things. So, I imagine we could see more of this clash in the weeks and months ahead -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right, Chris, thank you so much from Rome.
And thanks for joining us.
"AC360" starts now.
