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Erin Burnett Outfront
Mutiny In The GOP; Blanche's Bad Meeting; Colbert's Final Show. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired May 21, 2026 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:11]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Breaking news, mutiny in the GOP. A remarkable moment, Trump's own party en masse standing up to him tonight, and it's all over that $1.8 billion defense fund. Is it a turning point?
Plus, Todd Blanche doing the president's bidding, making a very rare trip to Capitol Hill to try to salvage Trump's most important pet projects. And a meeting that did not go well, leaving the DOJ with chaos tonight.
And new details about Stephen Colbert's final show. The late night host taping his show as I speak. We've got new details about it.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
(MUSIC)
BURNETT: Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
And OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news -- revolt. In an extraordinary moment, President Trump's own party has stood up to him, derailing his personal agenda. It comes down first to the $1.8 billion Trump defense fund, a fund that Trump says would help people like him who were targeted unfairly by the Justice Department.
Now the issue became so toxic that Senate Republicans bailed on a vote on Trump's key immigration bill. Now that vote is now uncertain. By the way, this immigration bill, that's a -- that's a policy issue, right? Many of them were fine with what was in it, but it was the extra things in it. Now they're gone for Memorial Day. So we'll see where this goes.
But the casualty of that bill is also likely the $1 billion in now taxpayer funding for Trump's White House ballroom. That's likely to be stripped out of the immigration bill because the GOP isn't going to support it, strip it out, or theyre not going to pass it.
It's pretty incredible. These are Trump's pet projects and a centerpiece of his domestic policy agenda, now stalled because of those pet policy projects.
Just listen to some Republicans speaking out about that $1.8 billion fund
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): This is -- I mean, this is just stupid on stilts.
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): I do not believe that individuals who were convicted of violence against police officers on January 6th should be entitled to reimbursement for their legal fees.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And Republican Senator Ron Johnson told Manu, quote, "Somebody described it as a galactic blunder. And I think that's probably true."
And those are just the ones talking. Behind closed doors. Manu is reporting that hardly any Republican senators have come to the fund's defense, just pretty incredible. Hardly any -- even as the acting attorney general, Todd Blanche, made an emergency trip to Capitol Hill to try to win them all over. That meeting, by all accounts, was a disaster.
And it's not just the $1.8 billion fund or the billion dollar ballroom that has many Trump supporters saying no. Just listen to this conversation on Fox News about Trump's controversial decision to back the Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton over sitting Senator John Cornyn in the Texas Senate primary.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLI)
BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS HOST: This is a big race. And John Cornyn, the incumbent, did not get that endorsement. Ken Paxton did.
BRIT HUME, FOX NEWS CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: No, he didn't. And the reasons he didn't get it, I think are pretty flimsy on the president's part. And I think that the seat is now, at least in some danger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Brit Hume.
And now, just listen to this Newsmax host questioned Trump's decision to indict the former Cuban president, Raul Castro. So, so, standing up on a totally different issue. Anchor Rob Finnerty said that he did not buy the White House's argument that Cuba is a threat, even suggesting it was a false flag operation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROB FINNERTY, NEWSMAX ANCHOR: I think people struggle with how this is America first, when gas is $4.55 a gallon right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And according to a new Fox News poll, Trump's s approval rating is at an all time low among Republican voters, white voters, and rural voters. In fact, only 43 percent of white voters and rural voters approve of Trump's performance right now. Those are crucial groups in terms of getting him elected.
And yet, President Trump brags about his approval rating, right? He brags about that cross tab of that one NBC poll, right? But he's bragging also about an approval rating that's a little stunning for America first, right? Because this one's not in America
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm right now at 99 percent in Israel. I could run for prime minister.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Ninety-nine percent in Israel. Well, so much for America first.
That comment did not go over with one time Trump ally Tucker Carlson either
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER CARLSON, FORMER FOX NEWS HOST: That president has spent the last year looking outward toward the approval of other nations. The last year has not made America great again. The last year has diminished American power at a rate some of us thought was unimaginable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:05:01]
BURNETT: And Karl Rove wrote in "The Wall Street Journal" today, quote, "Making things worse are Mr. Trump's erratic late night missives. The president comes across more as a heckler at a UFC match than as a reassuring wartime commander-in-chief. The president's actions are helping Democrats. That could give Democrats the House."
Manu Raju is OUTFRONT live on Capitol Hill.
And, Manu, I know that you are talking to so many, some of whom we were able to see there with you capturing them on camera. Some of those conversations off camera, you know, but are they pretty much all consistent from GOP lawmakers?
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I mean, this is a party that's in disarray right now, Erin, at a time where they want to be united, headed into the midterms. In fact, the House just left for the Memorial Day recess, not returning until June 1st.
And the speaker abruptly canceled a vote on -- to check President Trump's war powers on Iran because it was going to pass the House. And rather than seeing it pass, deciding to send the House home. This comes in the aftermath of the Senate Republican leaders sending
the Senate home, rather than voting on a bill that would provide tens of billions of dollars to fund immigration enforcement, all because of the disagreement over this weaponization fund, $1.8 billion that Republican senators said they simply do not want, and that has led Republican senators to point fingers at the White House and House Republicans to blame Senate Republicans
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): I think it's a gutless move by the Senate. I think they ought to be ashamed of themselves.
RAJU: But are you worried about November?
BURCHETT: Of course. I'm very much worried about it. I'm worried about our country. I'm afraid we could lose everything.
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): There's not one positive thing that could be spun out of this between now and November. This is bad policy. It's bad timing, and it's bad politics.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: But one person who has not waited on the policy of that $1.8 billion fund is the speaker himself, Mike Johnson. I asked him just moments ago whether they should drop this fund, whether the White House should drop this fund in order to move forward with this bill dealing with immigration enforcement. He said it is up to the White House. And I said, should this money be limited and should it be excluded? Should January 6th rioters have access to taxpayer money? And he declined to comment -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Manu. And everyone is here with me.
All right. So, you know, Paul, there's a break on the funding for this -- this fund, right? Which is an unprecedented thing in and of itself, right? And so subjective, even if it were to be managed by five people, not picked by Todd Blanche, who was the president's former personal attorney, would still be problematic. Then there's the ballroom.
You know, is this a turning point?
PAUL RIECKHOFF, HOST OF THE INDEPENDENT AMERICANS PODCAST: It is. I mean, I think the turning point happened a couple of weeks ago, and now the Republicans are catching up. And the barometer is always independents. And Trump has totally bottomed out with independents. Almost everything he's doing is unpopular now. The Iraq war, the tariffs, the ballroom, the arch. And I think it's going to get worse because now we've got Memorial Day where people are going to be driving all across America, and theyre going to see gas prices in some states over five bucks a gallon. Memorial Day is going to be a reminder about the human cost of war. We did lose 13 troops in Iran. And he wants more war. He's talking about Cuba now. It seems more likely than not that he will hit Cuba. So he's bottoming out with independents. He's bottoming out within his own base with the people he promised no new wars, no foreign wars, no never ending wars. And I think people are starting to smell what's cooking here.
He's also got people like Cassidy that he came after who are now turning against him because theyre empowered on Iran. They crossed him on Iran. And I think that's the beginning of what could be to come.
BURNETT: He got rid of him, except for that isn't going to happen for eight months.
RIECKHOFF: Right.
BURNETT: You got votes for that time.
I mean, Ashley, then you've got Tim Burchett. You just heard him talking to Manu. I'm worried about -- I'm worried about our country. I'm worried we could lose it all.
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah. He's not talking about -- he's talking about losing the midterms and then losing power. He doesn't -- I mean, maybe he thinks that we could -- he --
BURNETT: It felt existential to me.
ALLISON: I don't -- I don't buy that. I'm sorry. I think he's literally talking about losing the House and losing the Senate.
I am not as optimistic as you on the turning point. I wish it was. I wish. A girl could dream. And yet, if Paxton in Texas in the primary on Tuesday pulls it out, if in the runoffs in Georgia, for the Republicans, the candidates that Trump has supported pull it out, I could see people in the chambers running back scared again. I think they went on vacation and didn't vote on these because they are hoping that the attention span of Donald Trump runs out on these two projects. And when they come back on June 1st, he's focused on something else that is more palatable for them.
I just -- I know that -- I agree these are all both bad options. And yet I just, I don't think it's a turning point yet. I don't think anybody thinks --
BURNETT: He's just going to forget about the ballroom?
GRETCHEN CARLSON, FORMER FOX NEWS HOST: No, never, or the arch for sure.
BURNETT: Yeah.
CARLSON: And not the slush fund either, because I believe the real reason for that was so that he could never be audited by the IRS again. So I don't think he's going to give that up. But we said it here last night that the real turning point is the fact that when the primaries are over, what will his power be over this these Republicans -- I mean, let's just look at a state, for example, let's say Republicans start to move away from Trump, and they're more moderate.
Let's pick Texas. Lets say John Cornyn pulls out a victory and it's -- and it's Cornyn against Talarico. Is Trump going to say, don't vote for Cornyn, vote for Talarico? No.
ALLISON: He could not spend a bunch of money, though.
CARLSON: He could not spend a bunch of money. He could tell MAGA base to stay home. That could be -- that -- that's the only red herring in what I'm saying, I think. But I think the only way Republicans win or have any chance of winning the midterms is to distance themselves.
ALLISON: But can I just -- can I just clarify?
RIECKHOFF: I don't think we should assume that free and fair midterms are going to happen. I mean, Trump telegraphs every single punch, and he's been saying that he will disrupt it. Steve Bannon saying, you know, ICE at airports is a warm up for siccing ICE on the election booths.
And the real -- the real problem with this $1.8 billion is it's a pardon, and it's a payout for people who attack the federal government. So it becomes plan C for him. It's a green light for anybody who wants to attack the government. He can go to the military first to disrupt the elections.
If that doesn't work, he can go to ICE. And if ICE says no, this is plan C.
BURNETT: Well, now -- that's where it gets interesting.
RIECKHOFF: And we should be scared because that's what he's saying he will do and we should believe him. Just like Cuba. He's going to come back and he's going to focus on Cuba.
ALLISON: But can I just clarify the point on Cornyn? Its not that he might not support his race, because if we flip Texas, the Republicans are in trouble. It's that the ability of his endorsement is not the thing that carries over like in a Massie, like in Indiana and like a Louisiana. So it makes people think maybe his base is retreating from him.
I agree that the question of like, we need to have fair and free elections. I think the sabotage is already happening. I think it happened in Tennessee. I think it might happen in South Carolina with redrawing district lines. I think it happened with the Supreme Court gutting the Voting Rights Act with the Calais decision.
The sabotage is looking different this year than it did in 2020, when -- January 6th. But there are attempts to undermine this election right now by this administration.
BURNETT: Okay. I'll play devils advocate for a second, though. On the judicial front, Republicans have been winning on some of the redistricting. Take Virginia, right? So they've been getting more math in their favor. Then when it comes to primaries, Trump has been winning left, right and center. Okay?
Cassidy is slayed. Massie is slayed. And they're still turning against him on this. So why does Paxton hold so much, you know, extra sway in your mind?
ALLISON: I think it's because it's Texas, number one. I think it is because Cornyn is somewhat of an institution in the Senate. And because so many in the Senate, actually the institutionalist, even though I think Trump is part of the establishment now, to so many in the Senate, actually are still in favor of Cornyn winning that race.
I mean, you see Tillis speaking out about that, but Tillis is out. Like he's not going to -- you see --
RIECKHOFF: You see like the latest --
ALLISON: You see Collins, she has already bucked. But Mainers are different than Texans. I just think that, like, I wish -- I hope this is the turning point. I'm with you. I've been saying this for four years. I want Republicans to stand up to Donald Trump. I just am not confident they will.
RIECKHOFF: It just doesn't mean that they're going to end up supporting Democrats because Democrats are less popular than Trump in a lot of places. And, you know, Texas is the latest Democrat dream --
BURNETT: Turning on Trump does not mean turning towards --
ALLISON: Yes.
CARLSON: I think one of the most frustrating things is when you see somebody like Thom Tillis start to speak what many believe to be the truth finally, or Cassidy now, or potentially Cornyn down the road, this is what American voters are so frustrated about with this whole system is, oh, now you found your conviction --
ALLISON: Yes.
CORNYN: -- to say what so many other people actually think. Now you're actually going to stand up to something that you are talking about behind closed doors, but you never say publicly, this is why so many people are leaving both the Democratic and the Republican Party. I know you and I agree on this, Paul, why so many people are sitting in the center saying, who should I go for? Who's actually going to tell me the truth?
ALLISON: You know who and will they watch for is magic Mike? What's old magic Mike going to do? Mike Johnson, the speaker of the House.
BURNETT: I was like, we're talking about the movie?
(LAUGHTER)
ALLISON: Listen, what is Mike Johnson going to do in this moment? He's remained quiet. If he comes back on June 1st, and whether or not I think -- I think that will be -- CARLSON: I don't think the House is going to get rid of Trump right
now. I'm talking about the Senate.
RIECKHOFF: The question now too, is can the -- can Congress stop Trump from doing anything? Because the most important story in the world is still that Donald Trump can do anything he wants with the most powerful military the world has ever seen, and nothing is stopping him. So, they're still voting on Iran after he hit Iran. Can they vote on Cuba before he hits Cuba? That would be a good test.
ALLISON: Yeah.
BURNETT: Well, I mean, you've got the whole -- that's -- that's unraveling, too. I mean, that that you're saying -- that that was interesting that we saw that from Newsmax, right? You'll see that. That was actually a policy issue completely separate from the fund, completely separate from the ballroom, completely separate from the triumphal -- triumphal arch. It's hard to say, right? Yeah.
ALLISON: And all of this on the backdrop of gas prices and grocery prices and utility prices and, and summer is hitting. And kids want to go to summer camp and vacation. And you -- and you do, but you do by sacrificing other things.
And I think that that conflation might not be enough for the Republicans in power to actually turn them, but it will be enough for the voters.
[19:15:00]
BURNETT: And Trump doesn't go to gas stations. Okay, not --
ALLISON: Never has, never will.
BURNETT: But if you go to a gas station now, people start -- people are talking at the pumps. Some places now actually won't even let you pay at the pump. You have to go in and pay at the desk. Okay? Because of the prices and the -- you know, the limit on the -- on the cards. It is -- it is -- it is the number one topic of conversation.
CARLSON: And Trump in this administration has nobody around him to reel him in to actually say to him, you've got to start talking about the economy. We've got to get out of this war, and we've got to fix the economy and gas prices.
And you know why? Because he only wanted, yes, people around him this time. But the other really important point to know about Donald Trump is that, sorry, he only thinks about himself. I don't really think he cares about the Republicans winning.
ALLISON: He doesn't.
RIECKHOFF: And he also doesn't care about polling. It hasn't stopped him from doing anything else so far, and I don't think it'll stop him now. There have to be guardrails beyond polling that will stop him. And it's the Congress, especially on acts of war, right? BURNETT: Right, except for that one poll that he keeps citing.
RIECKHOFF: Right, right.
BURNETT: That one poll.
ALLISON: That one.
RIECKHOFF: Saddam Hussein had high numbers, too, and so does Putin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you all very much.
And next, the breaking news, a new and stunning claim about Putin's military from a top intelligence official. So is Putin about to lose?
Plus, nicotine suddenly becoming the new wonder drug among some wellness influencers and biohackers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's good evidence, unless you have cancer, that you should use a small amount of nicotine if you want your brain to work better.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I was shocked at what Google's A.I. answered, is nicotine have any benefits for you today, by the way?
And breaking news, the Justice Department scrambling as the backlash builds over that DOJ $1.8 billion Trump fund. Trump's former White House attorney Ty Cobb is next
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news, Trump's DOJ scrambling after the acting attorney general, Todd Blanche, failed to sell Senate Republicans on Trump's $1.8 billion fund. Sources are now telling CNN that DOJ officials are frustrated that Blanche, who raced back to the White House tonight, is being left to take the blame.
Now, Blanche had met earlier today with Republicans on Capitol Hill, and that meeting did not go well at all. But it was a meeting so important that Blanche bagged at the last second a preplanned trip to Minnesota for what they called unprecedented charges and their fraud investigation there. And obviously, that's been a really central issue to him.
So to throw that away and go to Capitol Hill for something that that when -- it went disastrously, is obviously significant. Former Trump White House lawyer Ty Cobb is with me now OUTFRONT.
So, Ty, I guess lets just start with this. What do you make of the acting attorney general, who also is President Trump's former personal lawyer? I watched him in a courtroom several days here in Manhattan rushing to Capitol Hill to try to seal the deal for Republicans, which Manu is reporting. That meeting went disastrously.
TY COBB, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE LAWYER: Go great to be with you, Erin.
I think this is, you know, the culmination of Blanche's transformation from a once decent lawyer into the complete toady that he's become. He's given up any character and integrity that he ever had. Lawyers who used to work with him and actually were optimistic that he would -- he would perform his duties consistent with the oath, no longer feel that way. It's -- it's never been apparent to me that he was worthy of that confidence.
But he's shown that he will do anything that the president wants, including giving away $2 billion that belonged to the taxpayers in an effort to buy the attorney general permanent position.
BURNETT: Well, since he took over right. As you point out he's acting attorney general right. He still doesn't have the formal job yet. He took over from Pam Bondi seven weeks ago. Since then, the DOJ has indicted James Comey again, this time over the message with the seashells on the beach.
And as you just pointed out, Blanche has put out this $1.8 billion fund that the Senate Republicans are rising up against. None of them were willing to defend it. And he's also pushing full steam ahead for Trump's billion dollar ballroom. He's saying there are security concerns for that.
You know, how far do you think he'll go? Is there doesn't seem to be anything at this point that he has raised, even a yellow flag on.
COBB: No. There's nothing that he wouldn't do. I think he's demonstrated if you're going to give $2 billion of the taxpayers money away just to placate a president in a case where, A, it was barred by the statute of limitations. B, there was no case or controversy. And C, the statutory damages are limited to $1,000 per improper disclosure.
You couldn't -- you couldn't get to $1.8 billion under -- under that framework, under any circumstances. And typically the IRS and the Justice Department would have filed a motion to dismiss, and it would have been granted. So this is just -- this is really just a criminal conspiracy to steal money from the taxpayers.
BURNETT: So, Ty, I'm thinking back to a conversation we had, you know, you called Pam Bondi reprehensible as attorney general, and you said she should be disbarred, right. That's what you felt about her in that role. Is Blanche better or worse?
COBB: So it's -- that's a -- that's an excellent question. I think Blanche doesn't have her excuse. I mean, he's not an ideologue. He was not wedded to Trump. You know, for years and years. You know, he's not a -- he was -- didn't -- didn't have the MAGA credentials of Pam Bondi. This is pure and unadulterated ambition, and somebody who, you know, for dollars and power has sold his soul. BURNETT: So, now, going into this fund, there's already a list of
people. Of course, they come out fast who have, who may seek money. And so, this includes Trump adviser Michael Caputo, who was investigated by Mueller, in part because of his connections to Russian officials. MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell, who repeatedly pushed baseless 2020 election claims. Attorneys for former Proud Boys leader Enrique Tarrio, who received the longest sentence for January 6th. Defendant. He also says he intends to apply and there could be others.
So how or where do you draw the line? I mean, my understanding from what Blanche laid out in that interview with our Paula Reid was there's going to be five people, perhaps who are there picked by him to make the decisions over who gets a yes and who gets a no?
COBB: So Blanche isn't going to pick anybody who would say no. And if anybody ever did say no, we know from the fact that Blanche and Trump and Bondi eliminated, you know, they've eliminated thousands of DOJ lawyers, including anybody that did anything with ethics. You know, Blanche has violated virtually every rule of professional responsibility in connection with conflicts of interest in his role. They're serving his former client.
So -- so the reality is he's not going to pick anybody who's going to say no. And we know that Trump, you know, he fired the people that were on the commission that, you know, would have had to approve the ballroom and replace them. He'll do the same thing with anybody who stands in his way or doesn't give money to his favorite people as he as he attempts to build his -- as he attempts to build his army of people to help disrupt the election.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Ty Cobb. I appreciate, as always, seeing you.
COBB: Good to be with you, Erin.
BURNETT: Next, some -- some influencers and even the administration are now trying to rebrand nicotine as a wonder health drug.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT F. KENNEDY, JR., HHS SECRETARY: Nicotine itself does not cause cancer. There no evidence that it's carcinogenic. It may, in fact have some health benefits.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Plus another major blow to the White House and the House speaker, Mike Johnson, forced to pull a vote that would check Trump's war powers when it comes to Iran. Johnson did not have the votes to block it, didn't have them. Congressman Ro Khanna is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:32:07]
BURNETT: Breaking news, another blow for President Trump. Just moments ago, the House speaker, Mike Johnson, pulling a vote that would check Trump's war powers. When it comes to Iran, Johnson did not have the votes to block it, so he couldn't do what Trump wanted. And it obviously comes on the same day as Senate Republicans revolted against Trump on his $1.8 billion Trump fund.
Now, the former Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell, just piled on to the criticism in a statement, he just said, and I quote, "So the nation's top law enforcement official is asking for a slush fund to pay people who assault cops? Utterly stupid, morally wrong -- take your pick."
OUTFRONT now, California Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna, he serves on both Oversight and Armed Services Committees. And I appreciate your time, Congressman, as always. So are we going to see this Republican revolt, which is obviously very visible right now and very visible because of the fact that it is unprecedented?
Do you think it will continue in the House? Where is it going?
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): The Trump coalition has cracked. I mean, it was unprecedented today. They first delayed the vote for 45 minutes. We were just sitting in the chamber waiting for the vote.
And the reason they delayed it is they didn't have the votes. The Iran war is very unpopular. It has led to gas prices going over $4 a gallon. It has led to an increase in food costs because farmers can't get the ammonia and urea and nitrogen fertilizer from the Strait of Hormuz. And so, we had the votes to end it.
Now, Thomas Massie and I had this war powers resolution, as you may remember, about two months ago, to prevent the war, we lost by a few votes. Today, we would have won by five or six votes. And the Republicans are realizing that Trump is an unpopular president.
BURNETT: So let me ask you about something else that happened today that I know is very important to you. And that is the testimony we heard to Sarah Kellen, Jeffrey Epstein's assistant for 15 years. She says she's one of Epstein's victims as well.
Now, you were in a closed door deposition with her today. So, you heard the questions. You heard the answers. I know that, among other things she shared with your committee three names that are new, new names, Congressman Khanna, that she says are tied to the abuse of young girls.
What more can you tell us tonight?
KHANNA: Well, I believe her. These three men assaulted her. I don't want to say the specific names, but I will leave it at as one is a business politician and other two were celebrities, and it shows how broad this Epstein class is of men who either assaulted, abused traffic with young girls and with women. And that's why we need justice.
This was not just Epstein. This was not Maxwell acting alone. This was powerful men who abused women who are still out free and haven't faced justice.
BURNETT: Can I just ask you a question about these names? Were they -- you're saying they were new, right? So, presumably, theyre not names that we've seen mentioned in the files.
[19:35:03]
Were you -- were you surprised or shocked when you heard their names?
KHANNA: They were not people familiar to me. They are a prominent politician and two celebrities, I'm sure eventually the names will come out, but the point is that these are prominent people who assaulted her and she didn't want to say who assaulted some of the other girls. She felt that that could implicate her. But we need to follow up with her under oath to see what she knew about the other men who were abusing the other girls.
BURNETT: All right. So on that point, let me ask you something, because obviously you're talking about the abuse she endured herself, which is -- which is horrific. You know, she said she spent years being sexually and psychologically abused by Epstein. And she said in the statement, we understand today and I'll read from it, Congressman, I want this committee to know that the abuse happened on average on a weekly basis and was at times violent. It included an occasion in Palm Beach when he trapped me in the gym by lowering the metal hurricane shutter, blasted the music so loud no one could hear, choked me and violently raped me.
Now, Congressman, you know, I've been watching some of the back and forth on your committee and that there were questions on whether she was a victim or also an accomplice in her role as an assistant and what she was doing for Epstein vis-a-vis other girls.
You were in the room, right? You saw her. You heard her testimony. You watched her body language. You heard her voice.
How do you navigate that fine line?
KHANNA: I believe she's a victim. Look, this happened with a number of survivors where they were raped. They were abused, they were trafficked. And then at a young age, to save themselves, they may have assisted Epstein in recruiting other girls or may have assisted Epstein just to prevent the abuse on them.
I view all of those as victims of Epstein, and I view her as a victim who faced horrific rape and assault.
BURNETT: Now, Congressman, I mentioned that you sit on the armed services committee, and I mentioned that for a reason, because I wanted to ask you this -- a major interview with one of the top intelligence chiefs in Europe from Estonia, top spy there, right? And obviously knows more about Russia than perhaps anyone else. And he made a stunning claim about Putin and Russia to my colleague Sebastian Shukla. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KAUPO ROSIN, DIRECTOR GENERAL, ESTONIAN FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE SERVICE: I do not hear any more talking about total victory. People recognize that the situation in the Ukrainian battlefield is not going too well for the Russians. We are probably, at the moment where Russians in four or five months, maybe from now, are maybe not able to negotiate from a position of strength anymore.
SEBASTIAN SHUKLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What is your assessment of the state of the Russian armed forces right now?
ROSIN: They are losing more men in the battlefield than they can recruit under the current circumstances.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Congressman, I thought that last statement there they are losing more men in the battlefield than they can recruit. A pretty stunning thing. Is that what does that match what you are learning in your classified briefings about Putin's standing right now?
KHANNA: Well, without going into anything classified, I will say that Ukrainians have shown enormous courage. It's why I've supported every single aid package for them, and they have defied the odds. Basically, they have used drone technology. They've used autonomous vehicles, and they have used drones to outmaneuver the Russian army.
And I do believe theyre going to prevail in defending their territorial integrity. And I believe that Russia has been severely weakened.
BURNETT: All right. Congressman Khanna, I appreciate your time, and thank you very much tonight.
And next, some influencers are now pushing nicotine, nicotine as some sort of a wonder drug that's good for you. What's the truth?
Plus, live pictures of the Ed Sullivan theater, where Stephen Colbert is signing off for the last time as a late show host. Tonight, we have new reporting about tonight and what comes next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:44:07]
BURNETT: Tonight, and I quote a life enhancing, God-given chemical. That's how Tucker Carlson describes nicotine, the highly addictive chemical in tobacco plants. But Tucker is far from the only person pushing the health benefits of nicotine.
Meena Duerson is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANNA BROSLIN, INFLUENCER: This is nicotine, and you've been lied to about it your whole life.
MEENA DUERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the land of the influencer, nicotine is having a moment.
TUCKER CARLSON, FORMER FOX NEWS HOST: Nicotine, which I would highly recommend to every person in this room as a life-enhancing, God-given chemical. That's just my view.
DAVE ASPREY, BIOHACKER: Nicotine is a -- is a cognitive enhancer.
DUERSON (voice-over): Long thought of as dangerous, nicotine is now being discussed by some biohackers, lifestyle creators and podcasters for its potential health benefits.
It's even getting kind of a rebrand from this administration.
KENNEDY: Nicotine itself does not cause cancer. There's no evidence that it's carcinogenic. It may in fact have some health benefits.
[19:45:01]
DUERSON (voice-over): Nicotine is a chemical found in the tobacco plant, which triggers dopamine release in the brain, temporarily making you feel good. But the effects on the body vary depending on how it's consumed, from cigarettes to oral pouches to topical nicotine patches.
The American Lung Association calls nicotine highly addictive and slammed influencers for promoting it, saying they often fail to account for the danger and long term harm of using it, even in small doses, and that nicotine rapidly affects the entire body and causes blood vessels to narrow, restricts oxygen flow and alters brain chemistry. But some big voices in or adjacent to the Make America Healthy Again movement are embracing a new curiosity about nicotine in conversations on their public platforms.
JILLIAN MICHAELS, PODCASTER AND FITNESS TRAINER: The whole MAHA group of people live by it.
ASPREY: There is good evidence, unless you have cancer, that you should use a small amount of nicotine if you want your brain to work better.
ANDREW HUBERMAN, NEUROSCIENTIST AND PODCASTER: Nicotine is neuroprotective. Nicotine is great for us. Not that everyone should take it.
DUERSON (voice-over): Nicotine enthusiasts say it's gotten a bad rap because of its association with smoking, and that it's the tobacco in cigarettes that causes most of the health risks.
ERIN OPREA, FITNESS INFLUENCER: Remember, weights or no weights?
DUERSON (voice-over): Fitness influencer Erin Oprea has been using nicotine as a health supplement for years.
OPREA: So researching about like the perimenopause, the brain fog. I'm like, there has to be something to this.
DUERSON (voice-over): She started wearing a nicotine patch regularly.
DUERSON: Do you remember the first time you used it?
OPREA: Absolutely.
DUERSON: Tell me about it.
OPREA: Energy was through the roof.
DUERSON: It was part of the appeal that its maybe something that's, like, a little controversial-sounding.
OPREA: That's when I'm like, this sounds a little weird, but that's when things get really exciting.
The stories I get are unbelievable.
DUERSON (voice-over): Oprea does not have a medical background, but regularly shares her experience with her hundreds of thousands of Instagram followers.
DUERSON: You get DMs about nicotine every day.
OPREA: Every day. Not a single day that goes by that I don't. It's changed my 86-year-old mother in law's life. Within a couple days of wearing the patch, she improved dramatically.
DUERSON: So what's qualifying you if you're not a doctor to give medical recommendations?
OPREA: Oh, I don't give medical recommendations. I share information and then I say, hey, go study on your own and find out if it's best for you.
DUERSON (voice-over): Like a lot of nicotine fans, Oprea's entry point came via podcaster, Dr. Bryan Ardis.
DR. BRYAN ARDIS, HOST, "THE BRYAN ARDIS SHOW": Nicotine alone is known to improve, reverse or can cure Parkinson's disease, Alzheimer's, multiple sclerosis, all arthritis.
DUERSON (voice-over): A retired chiropractor who promotes COVID conspiracy theories and cites study after study to tout nicotine as a cure all.
ARDIS: I wear a seven milligram nicotine patch every single day. I will for the rest of my life, and I invite all of you at home to come to my wake one day. And I want you to pull up my shirt when you come by the casket. I will have a nicotine patch on my body before I'm buried. That's how committed I am.
DUERSON: Have you talked to any of these researchers behind these studies?
ARDIS: No, I haven't talked to those research studies authors. I know you can read their findings, and any human being on earth can read it. So the qualifications are, can you read English? Do you understand medical terminology?
DUERSON: So you feel confident in your understandings of these studies and what you're delivering to your audience?
ARDIS: Absolutely.
DUERSON (voice-over): But Dr. Paul Newhouse, a leading figure in nicotine research, says Ardis is mischaracterizing the data.
DR. PAUL NEWHOUSE, DIRECTOR, VANDERBILT CENTER FOR COGNITIVE MEDICINE: If these benefits were as widespread as he's -- as he's suggesting, I think we know it a lot more clearly than -- than we do.
DUERSON (voice-over): Newhouse has been running studies on nicotine for decades.
NEWHOUSE: We think that nicotinic stimulation may have cognitive benefits for some people under some conditions, but not a general benefit for everyone.
DUERSON: How risky is this?
NEWHOUSE: Well, I think the short term risks are not large. Many people will get side effects from using nicotine, and they will find it unpleasant and they will stop. But certain people may find it habit forming. I just think we should be a little cautious about just taking anything because some influencer said it. I just think that's a risky way to run your life.
DUERSON (voice-over): Oprea has now been wearing 3-1/2 milligrams of nicotine almost every day for around two years.
DUERSON: How would you characterize your relationship with nicotine?
OPREA: It's a good friend of mine. Me and nicotine are pals.
DUERSON: When I was telling people that we were coming to do this story, a lot of people thought I was kidding. They were like, nicotine? That's disgusting.
OPREA: We're so brainwashed.
DUERSON: Yeah.
OPREA: We're all told it's been bad. That's what we've all been told our whole life.
DUERSON: What do you say to people who think its incredibly dangerous that you're promoting nicotine?
OPREA: I say, that's okay. You can believe that. But then go study. And then once you've researched and you've learned and you've listened to both sides of it, then come back and let's talk.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BURNETT: Meena, I mean, it's really incredible in a certain sense, nicotine obviously highly addictive, right? That was the issue with cigarettes. But a pro-nicotine push just in that context, right, it seems in some senses unbelievable. You know, you're talking about some of these really important influencers that you spoke to. Why is it gaining so much steam right now?
DUERSON: Well, I think that, you know, there's a perception that nicotine on its own is safe and it's very accessible. You know, these are like over-the-counter products, but there's this sort of larger shift that you can see with these influencers.
[19:50:01]
And it really has its roots in the COVID pandemic. A lot of these people, you know, that's when they stopped trusting the mainstream medical institutions.
They stopped trusting the government recommendations. And, you know, some of them said to us, if the FDA says that this is not an approved thing, that makes me more curious, it doesn't turn me off. It makes me want to try it more.
So there is this kind of shift and this push towards maybe these counterculture wellness recommendations, sort of alternative therapies, this idea that like theyre getting a hack that maybe isn't signed off on.
BURNETT: And so the whole that its outside the mainstream is why you should do it.
DUERSON: Yeah. And that, you know, this is a secret that I would rather trust a DM I got from a follower or a creator, you know, versus what the CDC is telling me to do.
BURNETT: Oh. All right. Meena, thank you very much. Incredible piece.
And next major news tonight about a SpaceX launch that the company has a lot riding on.
And Stephen Colbert filming the final episode of "The Late Show", the end of an era, but the beginning of something new. And we do have new details about this final broadcast.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:55:39]
BURNETT: And breaking news, the end of an era. Right now, you're looking at live pictures of the Ed Sullivan Theater. "Late Night Show" host Stephen Colbert taping the final episode of "The Late Show" tonight. CBS canceled Colbert and the show and a very controversial move, but it's impossible to ignore how Trump was and still is, Colbert's top target on the show.
Brian Stelter is OUTFRONT. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHEN COLBERT, LATE NIGHT SHOW HOST: Halfway around the world, Trump still got his ding dong caught in the door hinge in the Middle East.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST (voice-over): Night after night --
COLBERT: No obstruction.
STELTER (voice-over): -- year after year --
COLBERT: Donald Trump's one billionth lie
STELTER (voice-over): -- Stephen Colbert had a message for his viewers. You are not crazy. This news cycle might be crazy, but you're not.
COLBERT: Why do we have to pretend its normal when an old man wanders around a roof and shouts at us.
STELTER (voice-over): The endless fire hose of President Trump news and noise gave Colbert a purpose.
COLBERT: Because you've got to remember that you're not crazy, no matter what Donald Trump says.
TRUMP: And just remember what you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening.
COLBERT: Oh, good.
STELTER (voice-over): Depending on what you believe about CBS canceling him, all that Trump evisceration may have hastened the end of his show.
COLBERT: I mean at this point, let it all hang out. What does it matter? (EXPLETIVE DELETED) everything. Stop trying.
STELTER (voice-over): But Colbert is still managing to put on a smile.
JON STEWART, COMEDIAN: You have maintained such grace through this process. I would not -- I would not have been able to have fun.
COLBERT: I'm having fun with my friends. That's how. You get to come on here. I get to hear those guys, these lovely people.
STELTER (voice-over): And instead, those A-list friends are criticizing CBS for him.
Here's Bruce Springsteen last night.
BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN, SINGER: I'm here in support tonight for Stephen because, you're the first guy in America who's lost his show because we got a president who cant take a joke.
STELTER (voice-over): Yes, the Trump of it all is inescapable. But Colbert did not set out to be a voice of the resistance.
COLBERT: For years, I played an over the top like conservative, you know, character. Not as long as you did, but for many years.
STELTER (voice-over): And "The Late Show" was always about more than politics.
But on election night 2016, as Colbert helped viewers process Trump's shocking victory, the show changed. He had said he wanted to make a comedy show about love, but instead --
COLBERT: At a certain point, and you can guess what that point was, I realized that in some ways, we were doing a late night comedy show about loss, and that's related to love, because sometimes you only truly know how much you love something when you get a sense that you might be losing it.
STELTER (voice-over): As for CBS saying the end of the late show was a financial decision, Colbert has been skeptical.
COLBERT: In a completely unrelated story on Friday, Donald Trump posted, I absolutely love that Colbert got fired.
STELTER (voice-over): Trump did say that, as well as this.
TRUMP: He's got no talent. Fallon has no talent. Kimmel has no talent. They're next.
STELTER (voice-over): Reminding some of how autocrats have tried to silence comedians in other countries.
But tonight, Colbert will be heard loud and clear as other late night comics urge their viewers to watch his sign off instead.
JIMMY KIMMEL, COMEDIAN: I think you know how I feel about the fact that they are being pushed out. I hope the people who did the pushing feel ashamed of themselves tonight.
STELTER (voice-over): And as for Colbert, he said he was never trying to win elections. He was always just trying to win laughs.
COLBERT: I hope they laughed. I hope they felt better at the end of the day. I mean, that's it. We're there. We're the last thing you see.
You know, a lot of things happen in a day. But we bat last. And so we get the last take that people hear before they go to bed. And I hope it made their day better.
STELTER (voice-over): Brian Stelter, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: And before we go tonight, breaking news just in, SpaceX scrubbing a highly anticipated launch. This is the third version of what is the world's largest and most powerful rocket, the Starship. Elon Musk moments ago saying that the hydraulic pin holding that tower arm in place did not retract. He says that can be fixed tonight. They'll try again tomorrow. All of this, of course, as the company is racing to get the rocket ready to send astronauts to the moon by 2028, that whole moon base.
And there are a lot of eyes on it because Elon Musk's rocket and satellite company is planning to go public. They want to do it as quickly as possible. The market is, of course, at such frothy levels. It is expected to be the largest IPO in history, and it could make Musk the world's first trillionaire.
Thanks so much for joining us.
"AC360" with Anderson Cooper begins right now.
