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Erin Burnett Outfront

Trump's DNI Pick Refuses To Say Biden Won 2020 Election; Sources: Trump Weighing Options To Expand Military Action In Iran; FBI Search Warrant: Drugs Found In Van After Houston ICE Shooting; Outbreak Of Diarrhea From Parasite Spreads To 34 States. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired July 15, 2026 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:22]

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:

Breaking news, refusing to answer. Trump's pick to lead America's intelligence agencies repeatedly refusing to admit that Trump lost the 2020 election, as Trump plans to address the nation about, quote, "election security".

And more breaking news tonight in the deadly ICE shooting in Texas. The FBI says an agent found drugs in the victim's van. Supporters of the victim now accused feds of a smear campaign and cover-up. The van was missing for days.

And an update on the grandfather who was tossed in the air by a massive bison. He's sharing new details about what the bison was doing during that attack, caught on video.

Let's go OUTFRONT.

(MUSIC)

BURNETT: And good evening, I'm Erin Burnett.

OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news, stonewalling. President Trump's pick to be the nation's next top spy, Jay Clayton, refusing repeatedly to answer a pretty simple question, a question that, frankly, shouldn't have to be asked. But it is, because the president keeps saying that he has won the White House three times, which he hasn't, so it forces this basic question. Did Joe Biden win the 2020 election?

Watch Clayton, even choosing to sit in silence at times, rather than answer that question directly and just say, "Yes, Joe Biden won".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA): Do you deny that Joe Biden won the 2020 election?

JAY CLAYTON, NOMINEE FOR DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: Senator, I'm not an election denier. Joe Biden was certified as the president of the United States. I believe he had the most electoral votes. SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): So, he won the election.

CLAYTON: He followed our process, had the most electoral votes, was declared the winner, and --

KELLY: And who has the most electoral votes? Is it the person that wins or the person that loses?

CLAYTON: I think that's your characterization.

SEN. JON OSSOFF (D-GA): Who won the 2020 election?

CLAYTON: You know, I'm not going to do this with you.

OSSOFF: Who won the 2020 election?

CLAYTON: Like I said, I'm not -- I'm not going to get into that with you.

OSSOFF: You refuse to answer a simple matter of fact about the 2020 election. Is that right?

CLAYTON: No, that's not right.

OSSOFF: Then answer the question. Who won the 2020 election?

CLAYTON: I have answered the question.

OSSOFF: Answer it. What is your answer?

CLAYTON: I've given you my answer.

OSSOFF: What is your answer? You refuse to answer a basic question about who won a presidential election, but you asked to lead America's intelligence community? Isn't it humiliating to be unable to answer this question, to have to indulge the president's delusions?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Of course, you heard the answers there. You know that Biden was to clarity, was certified, but unable to say that he actually won. The closest he got there was to say, I believe he had the most electoral votes, as if that is something that is a matter of belief, not a fact.

Of course, Jay Clayton is the one Trump has tapped to oversee the nation's intelligence agencies. He will lead all 18 of them. It's a really important job.

Now, Clayton stayed with the script today, perhaps, because he knows that just coming out and saying, this is a ridiculous question, of course Trump lost, Joe Biden won, let's move on here, just saying that is a problem for this president.

Just listen to what Trump said about the man who is currently the acting director of National Intelligence, Bull Pulte, a mortgage guy who wasn't able to even move into the confirmation process in the role because both parties deemed him unqualified.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's a very smart guy, and you may find out some things about the rigged elections, et cetera, et cetera.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: The person that Clayton will replace is Tulsi Gabbard. She spent months investigating Trump's conspiracy theories surrounding the 2020 election. If you recall, she went to Georgia, joining an FBI raid of a county election office.

Now, Trump has been using the intelligence community, as you see from her, and also what he wanted from Pulte, to push his false claim of winning an election he lost. It is a topic with which he is consumed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I've been right about everything, and I have been for a long time. That's how I got to be president three times. That's how I won three elections. I did very well in the second one, won it. It was a rigged election.

We won three elections.

I've won three elections.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: And those comments, it's not like we're mining distant history. What you just heard us play there three times is just in the past few weeks.

And now Trump is focused on it again. Back on June 4th, Trump said his acting national intelligence director, Bill Pulte, would look into the, quote, "rigged elections". And since then, we went through and counted, right? So just since June 4th, right, past six weeks here, how many times has Trump talked about rigged elections?

[19:05:00]

Well, we found at least 18 different instances in interviews or speeches in which he has done that, some of which you can see here on the screen.

And Clayton was pressed on the president's obsession with these this baseless claim of rigged elections.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there a problem with voter fraud in this country?

CLAYTON: I don't think we can say definitively whether there is or is not until we have better processes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: This all comes as the president is preparing a primetime address to the nation tomorrow. He says his speech will focus on, quote, "free and fair elections," a speech in which he will almost certainly bring up his bill to overhaul elections, America's elections. That's the SAVE America Act that even Republicans have refused to sign on to, as they have said it is too restrictive and discriminatory.

OUTFRONT now, Democratic Senator Adam Schiff.

And I appreciate your time, sir.

So, you saw Jay Clayton's multiple refusals to just come on and take this on point blank, which takes on new urgency in the context that we just laid out, right? Trump's giving a speech to the nation that he says is about free and fair elections. He has said multiple times just in recent weeks, you know, that he's won the White House three times, that it's a rigged election, right?

This is something that it is an obsession in terms of the frequency with which he is bringing it up. What do you think is happening here?

SEN. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Well, this is a position where it is all the more important to be able to speak truth to power, to confront the president or members of Congress with unpleasant truths in order to protect the country. If Jay Clayton can't say out loud that Donald Trump lost the election and Joe Biden won the election, can we have any confidence then when -- when push comes to shove, when we need the straight scoop about threats to our country, that he's going to level with us instead of merely singing by the president's song sheet?

It also suggests that if the president wants the intelligence agencies to cook up something to justify voter interference in the midterm elections, that Jay Clayton doesn't have the backbone to stand up to him. That may be the most significant consequence, because of course, Tulsi Gabbard didn't have the backbone to stand up to the president. There she was in Fulton County, Georgia, where she has no business being during an FBI raid seizing ballots.

So doesn't harbor well in terms of what Clayton is willing to do or not do if Trump tries to interfere once again in the next election.

BURNETT: So, when he says I'm not an election denier and he starts to laugh, is there any part of you that that's that that sees that he's trying to signal to you? I'm not crazy. I get it. I know that this is this is all bunk or you don't see it that way.

SCHIFF: No, I think that's a fair reading. I think this is a way of saying I'm not one of those crazy people that really believes this, but I'm going to dissemble in front of this committee because if I don't, Donald Trump's going to pull my nomination. So, I'm willing to go along with this charade. And I think Jon Ossoff had it exactly right. It's humiliating. I'm

sure it was humiliating for him, but he's willing to be humiliated. And this is the problem. You know, cabinet member after cabinet member are willing to debase themselves for Donald Trump to push out his lies or to refuse to speak the truth. And again, if you can't do that on easy stuff like who won an election, how can we count on them to do it on difficult stuff?

BURNETT: So, your committee, Senator, the Judiciary Committee also held a confirmation hearing today for Trump's attorney general pick. That's Todd Blanche. And you had a number of contentious back and forth with him today. I want to place some of that here for viewers who didn't see it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCHIFF: How is that not a patent conflict of interest?

TODD BLANCHE, ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL: What you're saying happens to not be true. I did not do that. What you're talking about happened before I became the acting attorney general --

SCHIFF: So, you support the release of a law too?

BLANCHE: No, I don't, but I'm recused and it had nothing to do with that case. Like you can't accuse me of violating my ethical rules and then lie about what I did. I wasn't involved.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHIFF: Let me ask you about another one you have your name on.

(CROSSTALK)

BLANCHE: It doesn't matter --

SCHIFF: Yeah, it does matter. We just don't hear much of it from you. What happened to the Todd Blanche of the Southern District of New York that could convert him into you? Someone willing to say the president has both the right and the duty to prosecute his political enemies.

BLANCHE: I never said that.

SCHIFF: I can't imagine that Todd Blanche of the old days would have ever done that. What happened to you, Todd Blanche?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Blanche was adamant, though, Senator, that he is not a yes- man for President Trump. Do you believe him at all?

SCHIFF: No, I think, sadly, the entire record is to the contrary. He said yes to this slush fund. He said yes to this self-dealing IRS settlement that a judge just this week basically said was a fraudulent act of collusion, and referred Todd Blanche to the Bar Association in New York to look at his ethics or lack of ethics. [19:10:01]

There's nothing, it appears, that he's unwilling to do for the president even went to the length of telling the president he loves him at the podium at the Justice Department. And there you just saw him deny exactly what he said, which is he was asked about prosecuting the president's enemies. And he said, yeah, there are people out there the president has had disagreements with, and he has not only the right to go after them, but a duty to do so.

Those were his words. And much as he tries to assemble, he owns that. And of course, the Justice Department isn't acting upon that. No self right -- you know, self-respecting prosecutor in his old office would bring a seashells case against James Comey or a case against my Senate colleagues for a video they made that Hegseth didn't like.

It would be unthinkable. And yet, this is where Todd Blanche is today.

BURNETT: One question I have to ask you before you go on something you introduced. Now, you've introduced a new War Powers resolution to try to stop the Iran War. We're learning tonight, though, Senator, that the president is receiving options on enlarging the military operation in Iran, the war. Do you think there's any way to stop him at this point?

SCHIFF: There is every way to stop him if members of Congress vote to bring an end to this. We can defund these operations. We can pass -- these War Powers resolutions with even greater bipartisan support. Force him to veto it, or if necessary, overcome a veto.

But yes, we have all the power that we need in Congress to stop this. What we don't have yet is sufficient bipartisan will to do it, but this appears to be going on without end. It appears to be a classic definition now, sadly, tragically of a quagmire.

BURNETT: All right, Senator, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much.

And I want to go now to retired Lieutenant General Ben Hodges, the former commanding general of the U.S. Army in Europe.

And let me just ask you here, General Trump, as I just said, we understand is receiving options for enlarging, expanding the military operations in Iran. Sources telling CNN Trump is now weighing a specific operation again to take Kharg Island. which is that island in the Persian Gulf, crucial oil export hub for them, and to bomb underground complexes, including those at Pickaxe Mountain, which are believed to be connected to Iran's nuclear program.

Do you think these actions make sense at this time?

LT. GENERAL BEN HODGES (RET.), FORMER COMMANDING GENERAL, U.S. ARMY EUROPE: Well, you know, the president has got to lay out the objective for what's going on. It is the duty, of course, of Central Command and the Pentagon to provide options and also to make the preparations so that the president could, on short notice, direct one of those courses of action.

But I think what it does sound like is we're going to end up with troops on the ground stuck there, a lot of casualties, and we still don't know exactly what the end state the president is after.

BURNETT: So, while this is happening, right, and the president's informed Congress that the war is formally back on, something else happened today. The Defense Secretary, as he calls himself, the Secretary of War, spoke out today and made an announcement, and I wanted to play it for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Today, I'm authorizing a new screening program for testosterone deficiency. for our service members, ensuring you have the right testosterone levels to operate at your absolute best.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: General, what do you make of that announcement from the defense secretary?

HODGES: Well, first of all, I don't think it's a testosterone deficiency that causes us to be stuck in the Strait of Hormuz right now, while we have not been more successful there. And I think you can see where this is going, this idea of looking or measuring for sufficient testosterone. That is not connected to the reality of the modern battlefield. The women and men of the U.S. armed forces that are so effective at their jobs don't need testosterone supplements to be better. It's just not connected to the reality of the battlefield.

BURNETT: It was -- it was really jarring just to hear that today, and obviously, you know, all the implications of it. Trump was also asked by Fox News, General, about the Iran school bombing, in which more than 200 children and adults died in those early days of the war, that incredible tragedy, painful for anybody. CNN has learned that the U.S. was using outdated intelligence when it approved that strike. But when Trump was asked about it, here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: You know, I don't think anybody's going to ever be able to say what happened there.

TREY YINGST, FOX NEWS CHIEF FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT: There are images from this site that show fragments that appear to be from U.S. Tomahawk missiles. Is it possible that old intelligence or a mistake during a very active time in the war led to this event?

TRUMP: It is, but it's also possible that those images that you have are A.I.-generated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: General, I'm curious your reaction to that in the context of the fact that the fact pattern on this is obviously extremely disturbing. The U.S. has looked into it in great detail. There's a lot of reporting on this, that the president of the United States would still be saying maybe this was just A.I.

HODGES: Well, Aaron, this is embarrassing. I mean, one of the first principles of leadership is to accept responsibility. It's important to accept responsibility, acknowledge mistakes so that you can learn, prevent those from happening again. Instead, the Secretary of Defense and the President both are dodging any responsibility here.

And this is, you know, the Secretary of Defense is focusing on testosterone levels instead of running the department. where we're having -- still have ammunition shortages. We still don't have a strategy to carry out whatever it is the president wants done in the strait, and he should be working on those things, not focused on, you know, testosterone levels.

So, I think that the administration or the department has not got their priorities straight.

BURNETT: General Hodgers, I appreciate your time, as always. Thank you so much for being here.

And next, we have breaking news coming in in the Houston ICE shooting. The FBI now alleging the drugs were inside the victim's van. Supporters of the victim's family say this is false.

Plus, cases of the explosive diarrhea parasite are surging, as the source for the outbreak is still a mystery. A doctor who is right now in the epicenter of this outbreak is OUTFRONT.

And the woman that Jeffrey Epstein once called his great defender is still working at Goldman Sachs, despite claiming she was resigning, today, testifying in a closed door hearing. A congressman who called her testimony shameful who's in that room is OUTFRONT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:21:20]

BURNETT: Breaking news, the FBI tonight alleging drugs were inside the white van that Lorenzo Salgado Araujo was driving when an ICE agent fatally shot him in Houston. Now CNN has obtained a copy of the FBI warrant. In it, an FBI agent writes that after the shooting, he arrived at the scene and from outside the van observed small plastic bags containing what he described as a white crystal-like substance.

Now, these photos appear to show the bags that the agent is referring to. You can see them there in the vehicle's dashboard. Unclear how they got there. The warrant doesn't identify who the bags belong to, confirm what the substance is, say where they were found in the van. We know that the Houston investigation, local officials didn't have access to the van for several days after the initial incident.

Araujo had no criminal history prior to the shooting, and DHS has already acknowledged that he was not the intended target for ICE that day.

Tonight, supporters of Araujo's family are accusing the FBI of launching a smear campaign, and we're going to be joined by a representative from the family in a moment to respond to these allegations.

But, again, I want to note that the Harris County district attorney told OUTFRONT on Friday, which was three days after the shooting, that he still hadn't been granted access to the van. So, we're now finding out that they say there were drugs in the van, even though other investigators were not given access to it for days.

I want to go straight to Ed Lavandera.

So, Ed, these allegations here about drugs is the first time federal investigators have suggested any such thing, that there were drugs inside the van. All we knew before is that they've acknowledged that the man who was killed was not the intended target, right? That, in a sense, this was a mistake. So, what exactly does this warrant say?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's actually not a very long document and we should be very abundantly clear here that this search warrant affidavit does not say definitively that the substance in these three plastic bags photographed inside the van that they have not done any testing or final declaration that these was indeed methamphetamine. Simply saying that the crystal -- white crystal like substance in the way it was packaged in these plastic bags is consistent with the way drug users or drug dealers would carry this kind of drug.

So, because of that, there were already a lot of questions swirling around the incidents and the moments that led up to this shooting. This search warrant affidavit sparking -- sparking another round of serious questions, spoke with one Latino activist who has been working with the family over the course of the last week who says that this smells of a smear campaign, that instead of investigating a murder, federal investigators are investigating the person who was murdered.

So, a lot of questions and a lot of accusations that this does not -- appear to be on the up and up as those supporting the family say they believe that this is kind of reinforces what they believe. needs to be done in this case, that there needs to be a full, independent investigation. The Harris County prosecutor's office, the district attorney's office there in Houston, says that they were allowed by the local FBI to access the van as well, but it's not clear whether or not those prosecutors and those officials were there watching federal agents conduct and execute this search warrant -- Erin.

BURNETT: Ed, thank you very much in Dallas. Appreciate that.

And let's go now to Juan Proano, the CEO of the League of United Latin American Citizens. He's been representing the Araujo family.

And obviously our viewers have seen you several times here in this past week, Juan, with this tragedy and the one in Maine.

[19:25:06]

So, an FBI agent, says they saw bags with a substance that that agent believed is consistent with methamphetamine inside Araujo's van. So, it's a short warrant, as Ed lays out. What is your response to what's in it?

JUAN PROANO, LULAC CEO, SUPPORTING ARAUJO'S FAMILY: Well, my initial response, first and foremost, is that the family is still going through a grieving process. They are getting ready for a funeral. They have a public viewing tomorrow where they will celebrate his life. And the fact that they would actually release something like this is absolutely reckless.

You know, I'll point to the content that they had, which is that believed to be, for example, really isn't at all factual. Clearly, it hasn't been tested yet. And none of that, none of that really justifies what ended up happening. A human was shot and he was killed.

BURNETT: Yeah, a person who was shot and killed that DHS has acknowledged was not the intended target of whatever the operation was that ICE was conducting.

So, to -- I want to be very clear about that. But, you know, to the point here, the Harris County DA was on this program on Friday, Juan, and he said that at that time, their investigators did not have access to the van, right? So that was three days after this happened.

They still had not gotten access to the van. The FBI obviously had the van during that time and had control of it. Are -- I mean, are you? Do you believe that this was planted? Are you concerned that this was planted? Do you have faith in the investigation?

PROANO: Well, we've said it along that we don't believe ICE. We don't believe DHS. We don't trust that the FBI could really conduct an independent investigation. And clearly the way that they've handled this evidence itself is a clear indication of that.

You know, I've spoken with the DA over six days. They've gotten absolutely nothing at all from these agencies. And so, we will continue to call for a really, truly independent investigation.

But I do believe that this was planted. There's nothing that we've seen or heard about this particular man and these children that he's raised that would indicate anything close to what they're now trying to present as evidence. Certainly not justification for his death.

BURNETT: No, and to be clear, he had no criminal history, so the warrant Ed was laying out that it had the photos, but it doesn't -- and Ed was very clear. It doesn't actually say that their drugs. It says it's consistent with the way methamphetamine looks and is packaged.

I'm just curious what you read into the fact that they would go ahead and put a warrant and put in there all of these things without testing it first and getting an answer, right? I mean, what stands out to you about that about what they what they're alleging and what they what they did and didn't do?

PROANO: It's another effort by them to dehumanize Lorenzo, you know, to really sully his name, a person that they themselves took, you know, forceful action against and killed. I mean, how much more demeaning is it, especially, you know, a day before the viewing for the family while they're grieving as well?

It's just -- it's the indignity of this. It's a callousness of this agency and the recklessness of this administration.

BURNETT: Juan, thank you very much for your time tonight.

PROANO: Thank you, Erin.

BURNETT: And next, cases of the explosive diarrhea parasite surging across the country. We're going to talk to a top official at the epicenter of the outbreak to find out what's causing it. Everybody's worried about it.

Plus, an update on the grandfather who was tossed into the air by the massive bison, sharing new details about what happened in the seconds before the attack.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:32:58]

BURNETT: Breaking news, cases of the parasite that's causing explosive diarrhea that can last for weeks is surging across the United States, and people are worried about it. Tonight, the CDC is scrambling to find the source of the parasite two months after the first cases, which pointed to a potential outbreak. Officials still don't have answers months after.

The number of confirmed cyclosporiasis cases in 34 states are currently six times higher than this time last year. And the epicenter, obviously I mentioned it's in many states, right? But the epicenter is Michigan at the current time. The number of cases there are 7,500 percent higher than the average year, thousands instead of a few dozen.

Health officials there say signs point to lettuce as a possible culprit. Fast food chain Taco Bell announcing it's taking precautions, saying, quote, public health officials have not confirmed a link to Taco Bell or any specific ingredient supplier, restaurant or retailer. While authorities continue their broader review, Taco Bell is voluntarily and temporarily removed limited ingredients at select restaurants.

Now symptoms for this can take up to two weeks after exposure to develop and potentially last for weeks.

OUTFRONT now, Dr. Natasha Bagdasarian. She is Michigan's chief medical executive.

And, Doctor, I appreciate your time very much. So currently, Michigan is the epicenter, although as we pointed out, it's now in states across the country. How close are you to finding out what is causing this?

DR. NATASHA BAGDASARIAN, CHIEF MEDICAL EXECUTIVE FOR STATE OF MICHIGAN: Well, we already have some preliminary data. We have 3,700 cases in Michigan at the moment and we've interviewed 1,700 cases.

Now with that preliminary data, the signs are pointing towards lettuce and particularly bagged lettuce products.

BURNETT: So bagged lettuce that everybody buys that says it's been triple washed and if you ask A.I., it tells you it's absolutely fine. Trust it. That -- that bagged lettuce. Can I ask?

BAGDASARIAN: Bagged lettuce, yeah.

BURNETT: OK. So, you know, the CDC has not definitively identified the source, OK? And you look to the CDC for this sort of thing.

[19:35:01]

What do you think's happening there?

BAGDASARIAN: Well, you know this is a very difficult outbreak for a number of reasons. You mentioned already that long incubation period. It takes about one to two weeks symptoms to develop after exposure. It also takes time for people to seek medical attention for them to get tested, and then the interviews that we're doing are really intensive and that takes time as well.

So, the investigation is going to take some time, but I have to say that this is part of the -- this is part of the work that public health does behind the scenes all the time. And there have been cuts to public health in 2025 and 2026. And we're certainly seeing the reduction in staffing, the reduction in finances impacting our ability to respond.

BURNETT: Which is a really important point, right? This is something that's now touching so many people. Doctor, do you think this could get still much worse?

BAGDASARIAN: Well, I have to just remind folks that the cases that are being reported to us today, they were likely individuals who were exposed two weeks ago or potentially four weeks ago. So, you know, because of that lag time, it's really hard to know whether the interventions that we've made already have had any effect. We've been giving people guidance about how to handle their produce, how to buy lettuce if they want to consume salads, and again, it's going to take some time before we know that that information and that advice is paying off.

So, there is a lag time. However, because produce has a limited shelf life, it's possible that that contaminated material is already off shelves that it's already been consumed or already been trashed. So, it's difficult to know, but I would expect cases to start slowing down soon. BURNETT: All right, Dr. Bagdasarian, thank you very much. I appreciate your time.

And I want to go now to Dr. Ashish Jha, former White House COVID-19 response coordinator. Of course, familiar face to so many.

So, Dr. Jha, you say this outbreak could have been preventable. Explain.

DR. ASHISH JHA, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COVID-19 RESPONSE COORDINATOR: Yeah, excuse me. First of all, Aaron, thanks for having me back. I do think it could have been preventable. Or let me frame it in this way. We see cyclospora outbreaks every summer. This is a much, much bigger outbreak than what we're used to seeing. That's six times bigger than last year.

Last year, DOGE and the and RFK, Jr., Secretary Kennedy, had substantial cuts in the CDC, FDA, including people who track cyclospora and are very active in trying to prevent these things from getting out of control.

With those people gone, this disease has spread far more widely and wildly than it would have otherwise, and I think that's a direct result of the cuts that we have seen from this administration, particularly from Secretary Kennedy's offices at CDC and FDA.

BURNETT: Which is just important for people to understand some of the specifics, right, that are now, we're seeing the repercussions.

I know that you've been talking to friends at the CDC, Dr. Jha, about what's going on inside. What are they telling you?

JHA: Yeah, look, folks inside the CDC who are still there are frustrated. They have lost some of their top experts. They've lost a lot of the disease detectives who would have jumped on this weeks ago and tracked down, whether it was that lettuce that we heard from the health secretary of Michigan, who, by the way, has been doing an extraordinary job. Folks on the front line have been doing an amazing job.

What I'm hearing from my friends at the CDC is they're frustrated. They are trying to get the attention of the secretary. CDC has sent material up to HHS to try to get the word out. It's been hard for them to get the communication going. I think there's a lot of frustration inside the CDC right now.

BURNETT: So, this is one example, right? But we also have the worst measles outbreak that we saw in recent months in three decades in this country.

There's an outbreak of new world screwworm, which is a flesh-eating parasite. For decades it was considered eradicated. It's been affecting cattle, can cause mass kills, can impact beef prices, these outbreaks, as you see them, are not a coincidence, right?

JHA: Yeah, here's how to think about this, Erin. We have disease outbreaks all the time, but what we're seeing is something different. This is not an isolated instance.

Look, if Cyclospora outbreak was just bad this season, we'd say, boy, that's terrible. We occasionally have bad seasons. It's the worst outbreak in many, many years.

We have the worst measles outbreak of many years. We have new world screwworm, as you said, first time in 60 years. This is a repeated pattern when you make large cuts in public health.

Unfortunately, infectious diseases don't decide to take a break. They show up. And so we're seeing the repercussions of all those cuts that last year many of us said this is unwise. We should not be doing this. This is exactly why.

BURNETT: Dr. Jha, thank you very much. I appreciate talking to you again. Thank you.

JHA: Thank you.

BURNETT: And next, the Goldman Sachs executive who Jeffrey Epstein once called his great defender, testified about her relationship with the late convicted sex offender today.

[19:40:04]

The congressman, who was in the room, called her testimony shameful, is our guest.

And the grandfather, who was tossed into the air by the bison, tonight revealing new details about how he was able to save his grandson from the animal.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Tonight, the chief legal officer of Goldman Sachs still on the payroll of the megabank despite her relationship with Jeffrey Epstein.

[19:45:03]

Kathy Ruemmler testified today in a closed-door hearing before the Oversight Committee that she regrets that relationship with Epstein, claiming she, quote, didn't know, she said, quote, "who Epstein really was". This is important because Ruemmler said she first met Epstein in 2014, which was years after he had pleaded guilty to prostitution charges and registered as a sex offender. That was in 2008.

Now, amid the fallout from their relationship, Ruemmler said she'd resigned from Goldman on June 30th, leaving a job that, by the way, she was paid $25 million to do just last year alone. Two weeks later, though, Rummler is still there, following reports that the CEO of the firm, David Solomon, asked her to stay on as an advisor.

OUTFRONT now, Congressman Robert Garcia. He's the top Democrat in the Oversight Committee.

Congressman, so let's start with Rummler's testimony. Today, you've called it shameful. How come?

REP. ROBERT GARCIA (D-CA): I mean, for a lot of reasons. I mean, obviously, one, Ms. Ruemmler really, and my opinion, evaded many of the questions. She kept saying that she was not aware of what Jeffrey Epstein had done, yet she was very aware that he had already been convicted and essentially admitted to the sexual abuse of a minor, of women. And in addition to that, she continued to, in my opinion, essentially attack the credibility of some survivors, dismiss the fact that Jeffrey Epstein had given her thousands and thousands of dollars worth of gifts.

There were many files and exchanges that we brought up where she was joking with Jeffrey Epstein, using some, I think, language that really is inappropriate as it relates to any type of relationship. And yet she kind of dismissed all of that. She really kind of left the relationship and the impression to us that she somehow didn't really know what was going on.

It's just not believable. We just don't buy it.

BURNETT: Right, even though, and we should say, of course, he had called her his great defender, right? She was a lawyer. He sought her advice. I will also point out in some of the things you just referenced there, Congressman, I want to make sure anybody who has not read Andrew Kaczynski's reporting on KFILE about Kathy Ruemmler and the details needs to do so. It's really important stuff. Some of the details are disturbing, but it's important to read it.

So, I'm curious, Congressman, about Ruemmler right now. I mentioned that she made $25 million last year at Goldman Sachs. And she's still at Goldman now, two days after the date, she said she'd resign. Resign is an important word, right? Because if you resign and you're not fired, that can mean a lot for your compensation. Do you know what the situation is right now? Do you know how much money she's still being paid?

GARCIA: We fully do not. And in fact, I think it's outrageous if she is somehow still employed or still receiving compensation from Goldman. I mean, Goldman used to reevaluate their values as a company as it relates to Miss Ruemmler. I mean, let's remember that she also, very clearly, she also knew what happened. She understood that there was abuse and continued to not just pal around with Jeffrey Epstein.

She served as essentially his legal advisor. She was someone that he talked to before his death, almost more than anyone else. I mean, they communicated. She was one of the last individuals that he actually spoke with. And this idea that somehow she is sitting there, knowing what happened, palling around with Jeffrey Epstein, sending pretty intimate messages with each other, calling themselves "sweetie", talking about the girls. dismissing survivors, I think it's pretty outrageous.

And I think that Goldman, if there's any kind of relationship there, they need to reevaluate that because Ms. Ruemmler has a lot to answer for. Still, she evaded questions. She was not completely honest. And I don't see how anybody would want her to be anyone's lawyer. BURNETT: Goldman Sachs used to have something they would teach their new employees. It was at the time, does this pass the front page of "The Wall Street Journal" test? Would you be comfortable with your behavior being on the front page of "The Wall Street Journal"? And it sounds like what you're saying is they need to ask the question about whether they're okay with this being the way it is.

You also say, Congressman, that the Justice Department has not released three million pages of the Epstein files. And the Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche was asked at his confirmation hearing today. He wants to obviously be the attorney general. So, he was asked about why he won't just release everything, right? There's millions of pages out there, as you have said, Thomas Massie has said, your Republican colleague who's fought for this release.

Okay, here's how Blanche responded to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLANCHE: Well, that would be against the law, because the only reason we could release the three million we did is because of the Epstein Transparency Act. There are federal laws that prohibit the release of case files, and the Epstein Transparency Act was very explicit and specific about what could be and should be released.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Do you buy that?

GARCIA: No, I mean, two things. One, there's an active subpoena that required all of. the documents separate of the Transparency Act.

[19:50:01]

That subpoena has not been fulfilled. They continue to ignore the subpoena for all the documents. In addition, the Epstein Transparency Act makes it very clear what the DOJ has to turn over. Todd Blanche is making decisions about what he believes is confidential, what he believes is interagency communication that shouldn't be turned over. The reality is that the Transparency Act makes it clear that all documents with proper redactions need to be given over to the Congress and the public, and they have not done so.

So, the question is, why? What is Todd Blanche hiding? Why can't we get all the information? Why does he continue to put survivors in danger by obviously putting their information out to the public, but yet continues to be vague about the relationship between the president and Jeffrey Epstein or other powerful men and Jeffrey Epstein?

We deserve every single document, and we're not going to stop until the additional three million or half of the Epstein files. The remaining half are released to the public. We need them all released, which is incredible.

BURNETT: Which is incredible. You're saying half of them haven't been released. So, all right, in this context, the Vice President of the United

States is speaking out tonight and saying that this is really -- not anything about anybody's behavior, it's just a PR problem. He did an interview with Joe Rogan, and he said that the screw up here was the communications about the Epstein files. So let me just play the exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Say this with all candor, like we absolutely screwed up the comms of the Epstein files, like we just did. But do I think the reason we screwed up the comms is because we were trying to hide something? No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: So, do you believe that?

GARCIA: That's laughable.

BURNETT: And do you think --

GARCIA: That's laughable.

BURNETT: Go ahead, yeah.

GARCIA: The vice president was holding essentially classified meetings in the Situation Room with the entire top level of the administration, including the A.G., the chief of staff, the FBI director, trying to actually manage the release of the files and basically take the heat off Donald Trump.

I mean, the vice president was in the Situation Room trying to manage the Epstein files, and he's saying it was a comms problem. He clearly knew that this was much bigger than a comms issue, which is why he's trying to have these secret meetings in the Situation And in addition, we know from reporting that they were trying to use Ghislaine Maxwell as a possible way of exonerating the president. It's outrageous.

BURNETT: It's -- I'm still just amazed every time this topic comes up of how much we have not seen. You're saying it's half the files, at least three million documents or pages. I find that stunning. I think anybody, anybody listening finds it stunning.

Congressman, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much for being on the show tonight. \

And next, new details about the grandfather who was launched eight feet into the air by the bison. What he says happened just before the attack.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:57:32] BURNETT: Tonight, an OUTFRONT update on the grandfather tossed eight feet into the air by an angry bison at Yellowstone National Park. Carl McDaniel revealing he luckily never made contact with the bison's horn and was instead launched into the air by the animal's head. And he broke his femur when he hit the ground, and he shared new details with Mike MacLeod, the professional photographer who was there and captured the entire incident, as you're seeing it right now.

Mike is back with me now.

Mike, I know you had a chance to visit Carl in the hospital last night, where he's recovering. His femur was broken in four places. I mean, how is he doing?

MIKE MACLEOD, PHOTOGRAPHER WHO CAPTURED BISON ATTACK: Well, to be honest with you, he's a little excited to get the chance to cancel some Zoom meetings he had. Otherwise, he's doing really well. He had successful surgery. He has some other minor complications, but the doctor has laid out a clear path to him getting out of the hospital, which he's super excited about.

BURNETT: I can only imagine. Well, that that's great to know that that he's doing so well when you visited with him. I know he gave you a lot of new details about exactly what happened here. What did he tell you?

MACLEOD: Well, for one, the truck you just saw in the video. I didn't hear it, but I had a woman screaming in my ear or lots of people really. But what he heard was the white pickup honking its horn and then squealing its tires. And what he wondered is it if that when the tires squealed, if it didn't kick up dust to look like another angry bison and kind of trigger an angry response?

BURNETT: Hmm, that might have been that truck that actually caused it, because it does drive through right before, as we see in your video.

He also told you, I know something about, you know, in that instant, he had a chance to say something to his grandson, who's 13 years old. The bison's charging at them. And then he said something to his grandson. What did he say?

MACLEOD: Well, they had just walked down from an Arboretum in the park where they had, and so he yelled at his grandson to get in the ditch and go right back up to the Arboretum and read them and hide. And then Carl lured the bison in the exact opposite direction.

BURNETT: So, when the truck obviously goes and then right after the truck passes, the bison appears to charge Carl. But he's telling you, if I'm right here, that this was not the first time that he saw the bison. After the truck passes, the bison appears to charge Carl.

But he's telling you, if I'm right here, that this was not the first time that he saw the bison, right? It wasn't in just these seconds before the attack.

When did he first see the animal?

MACLEOD: Right, well, it wasn't just him. He and his grandson saw it while they're eating dinner, and it went right past their campsite and the people who were next to them told me on Instagram the very same thing. So -- and there was no incident then. The bison just moving along eating.

BURNETT: All right. Mike, well, thank you very much and I hope we'll talk to you again soon.

MACLEOD: My pleasure. Thanks for having me on.

BURNETT: And thanks so much to you for being with us.

"AC360" starts now.