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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump & Michael Cohen Reunite After Massive Rift, Why Now?: Top Political Forecaster Moves Four Races In Texas & Iowa To Favor Democrats; 35-Year-Old Woman Charged In Plot To Bomb New York State Capitol. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired August 20, 2026 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:22]
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Breaking news, Donald Trump and Michael Cohen together again. Is Cohen about to get a pardon out of this? His former attorney, Lanny Davis, is OUTFRONT.
And also breaking, the nation's top election forecasters are moving four major races in favor of the Democrats in Texas and Iowa, even.
Plus, quote, "Flock off". The backlash over Flock surveillance cameras, which use A.I. to track vehicles, that is reaching a boiling point. Protesters destroying them while police call them useful. A special report ahead.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
(MUSIC)
BOLDUAN: Good evening, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan, in for Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, together again. The president of the United States speaking with his fixer-turned-nemesis Michael Cohen, a man he once called a rat for testifying against him. And Cohen, in turn, once called Trump a racist con man, among many other things.
But tonight, the hatchet apparently has been buried. Water under the bridge, the two men both claiming to be victims of a corrupt legal system.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They weaponized you like nobody's ever been weaponized, like few have been.
MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER TRUMP LAWYER: Well, maybe just you and I, sir. But --
TRUMP: Yeah, me too. But I don't consider mine, you know, mine was at a level that nobody's ever seen before. But they weaponized you. They weaponized a lot of people.
And I respect the fact that you recanted everything you said. And that's a big thing -- that's a big thing that you did. That's a very big thing.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: The president called into Cohen's radio show, and Cohen in turn gave the president a platform to promote talking points that you've often heard, and he repeats at public appearances, that the war with Iran is going great, that the economy is strong, that his poll numbers are excellent.
But it is a remarkable turn of events, though, when you consider the deep hatred that these men had for each other. Here's a reminder of how bad it got and what the president has said about Michael Cohen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Michael Cohen, who's a sleazebag lawyer.
He's a weak person and not a very smart person.
Michael Cohen is a convicted liar, and he's got no credibility whatsoever.
So, he got caught lying, pure lying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: And remember, Michael Cohen went to jail for, among other things, crimes he claimed were committed at the direction of Donald Trump. And he has not been quiet about his disdain for Donald Trump. I mean, he essentially testified under oath to Congress that Donald Trump had no redeeming qualities.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COHEN: I am ashamed because I know what Mr. Trump is. He is a racist, he is a con man, and he is a cheat.
I looked at him, and I said to myself, Boy, what a sad-looking, pathetic, deflated individual. The problem with Donald is he's like a petulant child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: It didn't stop there, of course. Online, Cohen railed against Trump often, writing things like -- you might remember the, hey, Von expletive pants, your attacks of me stink of desperation. There's also the photo of Cohen wearing this orange T-shirt -- this T- shirt of Trump in an orange jumpsuit. And Cohen even sold a mug online, which read, "Send him to the big house, not the White House".
But now, let bygones be bygones, I guess. Cohen explained it this way to Jake Tapper tonight. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COHEN (via telephone): The answer is actually much simpler than people wanted to be. The answer is, is that we forgave, and not because the past didn't happen, not because the scars disappeared, not because every disagreement suddenly becomes irrelevant, and certainly not because I have forgotten anything.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, "THE LEAD": Right.
COHEN: I have not. But remember this -- forgiveness does not require amnesia. It requires the courage to stop allowing yesterday to dictate tomorrow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Cohen on the phone, they're calling in with Jake.
So, what is in it for these two men to suddenly have this very public love fest? You can be an armchair psychologist on this one as well. What is this really about?
So many questions, but one thing is certain. Michael Cohen doesn't want to go back in the past anymore and definitely not.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: But do you still think President Trump is a racist and a con man and a cheat and a mob-style boss?
COHEN: Right. But what you're doing is you're trying to go back in time. And I refuse to do that. I will not do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Kristen Holmes OUTFRONT live outside the White House.
I mean, Kristen, man, does this bring back a lot of memories for people? What is the latest that you're hearing about Trump's possible -- Trump's possible motivation here?
Well, there's a lot of schools of thought on this Kate around Trump's orbit, one of them being the fact that President Trump is actively appealing that conviction 2024 falsifying business documents. Of course, Michael Cohen was almost a linchpin. He was a huge part of that testimony. He has now since said that Letitia James and Alvin Bragg coerced him into testifying against Trump.
So, there are some that believe that this is helpful or could be helpful in that appeal. And I've heard from legal experts as well who really would side with those who believe this relationship could be helpful.
But there is another kind of part to this, which is the fact they have a long history. And Michael Cohen knows one thing. He knows how to please President Trump. You mentioned one of the things President Trump was saying during this
interview. How war was going how good his poll numbers were Michael Cohen was agreeing with him. He was saying that he think he did the right thing in Iran. He was saying, of course, his poll numbers were good. He brought up the poll numbers back in 2016 saying that all these polls are wrong and that agreeing with this idea that President Trump's actually doing better with his approval ratings.
He knows how to ingratiate himself with President Trump because he spent years doing it.
Now, whether or not Cohen wants a pardon he said that he hadn't directly asked President Trump but he had submitted a letter to the administration and that he was going to be following up to see if they got that letter, or if it's just proximity to power -- unclear at this time. We also know it is likely Michael Cohen felt like he wanted to revive this relationship for whatever reason.
Again, long history between these two men. But man, it got very ugly there for a while and it was interesting during this interview there were several times when Cohen kind of wanted to revisit the past, obviously not about his testimony, but beyond that has passed with President Trump back when they were in New York talking about the trenches.
And President Trump kind of shifted the conversation there, moving on to making it much more about news of the day, not necessarily a huge love fest just between the two men.
BOLDUAN: Yeah, I mean, you did hear Michael Cohen one point call him boss once again, which was definitely what you did. But it was quite I like was like, oh, we're back to that.
Kristen, great to see you.
OUTFRONT now, Lanny Davis. He was, of course, Michael Cohen's attorney when he went to prison, and Stacy Schneider is here with us, who knows Trump well from her days as a contestant on "The Apprentice". She's also a criminal defense attorney.
What -- what a day, Lanny. Did you ever think you'd see the day when Donald Trump and Michael Cohen would reconcile like this?
LANNY DAVIS, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL COHEN: No, I didn't. But I also give Michael Cohen as a former client my loyalty and give him the benefit of the doubt as to his motives of wanting to forgive, but I do want to do facts very briefly.
It was Donald Trump that sent Michael Cohen, after checking in on his ankle bracelet during his probation when he got out of prison or a brief out-of-prison time period, it was Donald Trump that put shackles and wrist guards --
BOLDUAN: Handcuffs.
DAVIS: Handcuffs -- him while his son was waiting to pick him up, because he was in just for a check-in, and they sent him back to Otisville prison. It was Donald Trump that did that. So, don't tell me about weaponization that didn't happen with respect to Michael Cohen being sent back to prison during COVID. And Michael was quite so upset by that that he went to federal court, and the federal judge, Hellerstein, found that the government had lied in denying that that it wasn't about Michael's intention to write a nasty book. So, he was released on First Amendment grounds.
So please forgive me for Donald Trump to talk about weaponization in the course of a conversation with Michael Cohen, who he sent back to prison because he was writing a book. I call that weaponization.
BOLDUAN: Stacy, knowing Donald Trump like you do and knowing how much loyalty that he demands of his employees and has very clearly done that for many, many years, are you surprised by this reunion?
STACY SCHNEIDER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Surprised is a light word. I'm shocked by this. I can't in any world see Donald Trump opening the door back up to Michael Cohen. This is like the reunion of Julius Caesar and Brutus in my mind.
This is -- Trump does not have the capacity to forgive somebody who took the stand, and testified against him in a felony criminal trial in Manhattan. made Trump's life miserable and maybe for valid reasons.
[19:10:06]
It's also, I have to point out, it's very interesting that, you know, now, all of a sudden, Michael Cohen was coerced to testify against Trump because during the trial, Michael Cohen was asked on the stand, do you want to see Donald Trump go to prison by Trump's defense attorney? And his answer was, sure, which was pretty obvious to everyone involved in that trial because Michael Cohen had gotten convicted in 2018 years before.
So now for Trump to come back and say Michael Cohen was weaponized against him, which seems to be looking a little bit like the motive why Trump even opened the door to Trump. You can't say somebody who's weaponized against you when their conviction and their admission of a crime is on the record already. I don't know how that would be a weaponization.
But this seems like a misguided publicity stunt undertaken by Donald Trump, because I have never seen him forgive somebody for their mistakes, let alone the conduct that the two of these men went against each other with. This was life-altering for both of them, and it's absolutely shocking that this could even happen.
DAVIS: Kate, can I just jump in to add to that one comment?
BOLDUAN: Yeah.
DAVIS: Not that facts matter to Donald Trump. He doesn't know fact versus non-facts. It is untrue -- it is not true that Michael Cohen recanted anything that he testified under oath in describing the words that Jake introduced that were under oath. Every word was carefully written. I helped in the drafting of his statement before Chairman Cummings on national and international television under oath.
He never recanted. You heard Mr. Trump wishfully recasting the truth that he recanted. I give Michael certainly credit for forgiveness and Mr. Trump credit for forgiving. But no recantation over the words that Jake asked him. Those words were said under oath. And there was no coercion when Michael Cohen testified in front of the jury in Mr. Braggs' case. I was involved, and there was no coercion on that.
BOLDUAN: So, what was interesting there, when Jake introduced the segment and brought Michael Cohen in, Michael, before going at anything, said he wanted to clarify one thing and say, I felt coerced. So, like, that is what Michael Cohen is saying today.
DAVIS: So, the coercion that I witnessed was the coercion to plead guilty. We're on a Friday. He was brought in by the Southern District prosecutors. I questioned their ethics in doing it this way and saying, if you don't plead guilty today, and commit to a guilty plea today, on Monday, we're publishing a 28-page, whatever the number was, indictment, not only of you, but your wife.
Now, that is a fact that a lot of people don't know. Southern District of New York presented that alternative to him. Plead guilty, or we indict not only you, but your wife, who is thoroughly innocent. And that is what I think he means by coercion, not that he was coerced to testify in the Bragg trial.
BOLDUAN: So, Stacy, Kristen Holmes was reporting that some in Trump's orbit think that, because a lot of this is, of course, there's a question of why now. Like, you hear this, and I'm going to say, you know, one could say they just, a man or woman can bury the hatchet and want to just put the bad feelings aside and look ahead to the future.
Yes, forgiveness is possible for everyone, but we live in a world of politics, and especially in the world of these men, there's often motivations for self-preservation and benefit. Some in Trump's orbit think Cohen could actually be helping Trump's appeal here is Michael Cohen do you think doing that knowingly or unknowingly?
SCHNEIDER: I mean I don't think I think that's a load of bull. I mean, Michael Cohen the only way that he can help the appeal is to completely recant and he's not going to do that we just heard that. I think Trump's making a miscalculation here. This reuniting with Michael Cohen totally goes against everything Trump stands for.
When you're fired, when you're out, when you wrong him, you are out. There's no coming back from that. That's how he ran his business before he was president. That's how he runs his presidency.
It's -- I think Trump maybe sees something here that he can wiggle out of Michael Cohen. Michael Cohen probably sees maybe he can wiggle out a pardon out of this. But this is Trump totally reversing all of his principles, his nature as a human being. He does not really have the capacity to forgive people.
[19:15:04] I've never seen any example of that. He runs his office like a tight ship. He is in command. I've been inside the Trump Organization offices. And if there's a sign of disrespect or a sign of not cooperating, you're out.
So why would Trump want to come back and revisit relationship with Michael Cohen when it's a reminder of the Manhattan criminal trial where he was convicted of felonies. There's something going on behind the scenes with Donald Trump's motivation to have this back in the forefront right now. I don't know if it's distraction from the reflecting pool or the ballroom because none of that seems to be working.
But this is a pretty big leap to befriend, you know, this new bromance between the two of them when they were bitter arch rivals and enemies.
BOLDUAN: Yeah, I mean, the hatred was, I mean, the hatred was very clear. I will say this though, like it could be, you know, door number three, all of the above, but we'll find out together.
It's great to see you both. Thank you very much. Lanny, thank you. I really appreciate it.
OUTFRONT for us next, breaking news, CNN learning the US Navy could rename an aircraft carrier set to honor a Black war hero and instead name the ship after Donald Trump.
Plus, a special report on the growing nationwide revolt against Flock's surveillance cameras. They're in just about every state, and the outrage is in about every state, as our Meena Duerson saw first- hand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good bye, camera!
MEENA DUERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Did you get that?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: And Hayden Panettiere's boyfriend breaking his silence after her sudden death. We're going tell you what he's saying.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:20:54]
BOLDUAN: Breaking news, there's new momentum for Democrats. "The Cook Political Report", one of the country's top election forecasters, is now moving four major races away from Republicans and toward Democrats, including two key Senate races that could decide which party wins control of that chamber.
In Texas, Cook just shifted that Senate race from lean Republican to toss-up. The governor's race is also moving away from the Republicans and Governor Greg Abbott. Iowa's Senate race also being moved from lean Republican to toss up and the governor's race there is now leaning to Democrats. Both Senate seats would be crucial pickups for Democrats and the Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer is now seeming to guarantee victory in November.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): We are going to take back the Senate. Republicans thought they had the Senate locked down, but now Democrats We are on the path to victory. We've blown the map wide open.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: David Axelrod, Sarah Matthews are OUTFRONT.
David, let's focus in on these Senate races. So, it's been 18 years since Iowa elected a Democrat to the Senate. Texas hasn't done it since '88. How significant is it that both of those Senate races are considered toss-ups now? Like, do you see it?
DAVID AXELROD, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah, no, I think it's a recognition of the reality. It would be a big turnabout, and Texas has been sort of fool's gold for Democrats for a long time. But the combination of the deterioration of the president's standing, you know, he won these states by 13 points, each of them, and is now underwater in these states in his favorable. Iowa has been hit harder by some of the president's decisions. The tariffs and the war in particular have just pummeled the farm economy and the local economy, diesel fuel, fertilizer, and exports.
And in Texas, you have on the other side of this race Ken Paxton, who was not the choice of a lot of Republicans in Texas and who was a scandal-ridden candidate. So, you add all of those things together, and you have a formula for upsets in those states. And James Talarico has proven himself to be a very resilient character.
One other point on Texas. You know, the president won in 2024, in part because Hispanic voters shifted in his direction. Those numbers have cratered -- cratered in part because of economics, because the Hispanic community is largely a working-class community, small businesses and so on. They've been hammered by the president's decision, but also his handling of immigration issues beyond the border, immigration enforcement.
And so, his numbers among Hispanic voters have deteriorated, and that, of course, is going to be very important in Texas. All in all, I think these are real live possibilities for Democrats.
BOLDUAN: Sarah, there are -- Republicans even admit they're worried about the midterms. You can see it in how they're running. But during his interview with Michael Cohen, Donald Trump, in this interview we just listened to, said he thinks he's confident Republicans will do well in the midterms because he believes that the Democratic Party has gone too far to the left.
Let me play this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
TRUMP: There's a great spirit for what's going on, especially in light of what's happening with all these crazy theories and policies and lunatics that are running. You have lunatics, they would destroy the country. And they're being put in the Democrat Party. I think they'll be wiped out in the election because the people are too smart to allow that to happen. It's never worked.
In a thousand years, that stuff has never worked and it's not going to work now. But they're not even smart people. You watch some of them, half of them can't even speak properly.
(END AUDIO CLIP
[19:25:01]
BOLDUAN: Look, it's clear that the two things that drive voters and motivate voters the most, it's either -- it's either anger or fear. Do you think -- do you think that is what they're what is at play here do you think Trump has -- is right to have this kind of optimism?
SARAH MATTHEWS, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: No, he definitely shouldn't have this type of optimism. I think that when you don't have any accomplishments to tout or to run on, you have to fearmonger. And that is exactly what Trump and Republicans are going to do, and we've already seen them do in the lead-up to the midterm elections.
They're out there talking about communism and this threat that Democrats are going to ruin America as you know it. The thing is that voters, I don't think, are going to be buying it. I think that they gave Trump a chance in 2024 because they thought that he was going to bring prices down and get a handle on the economy.
And guess what? That hasn't happened. Instead, prices have gone up on his watch because of his asinine tariffs, because of his war of choice with Iran. We've seen the price of gas skyrocket.
And so, I don't think that them fearmongering and trying to sell that message to the American people is going to work this time because a lot of people who voted for him have buyer's remorse. They feel like he's gone back on nearly every campaign promise, and so, no amount of messaging is going to fix that because I don't think Republicans have a messaging problem. They have a reality problem.
They can try to spin their way out of this and tell people not to believe the price that they're seeing at the grocery store or the price they're seeing at the gas pump, but no amount of messaging can make an unpopular war popular or gaslight people into not believing what they're seeing with their own eyes.
BOLDUAN: And David, there's this exclusive CNN reporting --
(CROSSTALK)
AXELROD: Yeah, I just want to add one thing to this. The president says not in a thousand years has whatever he said is going on. You know what hasn't worked in a thousand years? Presidents trying to make the midterm elections about something other than themselves. Only twice since World War II as a party won seats when an incumbent party in the White House, those two, the president was very popular.
This president's very unpopular. I mean, he's spinning, but he's spinning against the history, and the reality of what midterm elections are all about. I'm sorry, I interrupted you. Go ahead.
BOLDUAN: No, you're fine. But also, I can already see Donald Trump trying to use that also and spin that into, this is about me, they're going to go after me, and this is why you have to turn out and vote for Republicans. Again, what works -- stand by -- to stand by on that.
Sarah, let me ask you this one. There's this exclusive CNN reporting tonight that a U.S. Navy aircraft carrier that was set to honor an African-American war hero, Doris Miller, now could be named after Donald Trump. It's something that the Navy apparently is weighing right now.
I mean, just -- your reaction to that as I'm seeing this.
MATTHEWS: Yeah, because this is exactly what voters want right now, Trump to slap his name on another thing. It's just such a slap in the face to voters when you look at everything that he's focused on.
These are his priorities. It's building his ballroom. It's putting his name on as many things as possible, whether that be this ship or it's the passports, the national park passes, gold Trump coins.
I mean, it's just never ending. His ego can never be satisfied. And the thing is, is that he knows that no one will build monuments to him when he leaves office, so he has to do it himself, and it's his way of creating a legacy.
But I don't think this is what voters want. They want him focused on the things that they actually elected him to do. They want him to bring down prices. He didn't do that.
They want him to not be in a war in the Middle East. He said he was going to be the peace president. They want him to release the Epstein files. He still hasn't done that.
And so I think this is why you're seeing two states like Iowa and Texas where he won by double digits in 2024 are now toss-ups in the Senate races there.
BOLDUAN: It's good to see you both. Thank you so much.
OUTFRONT for us next, breaking news, the FBI arresting and charging a woman with a plotting to bomb the New York State Capitol. The feds calling it an ISIS-inspired plot.
Plus this --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They can look up exactly where you've been. If they put in your license plate, they can have it. You know, this person is right here, right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Oh, my gosh. Tonight, we take you inside the growing movement to take out Flock surveillance cameras. Why are some people so outraged over this?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:33:31]
BOLDUAN: Yeah, the breaking news, an alleged terror plot to blow up the New York State Capitol building and kill lawmakers foiled by the FBI. Agents arrested 35-year-old Jessica Bowie in Albany, saying that she pledged allegiance to ISIS in recent months and bought items to build an explosive device.
The criminal complaint says she wrote to a confidential FBI source this, "I want to destroy as much of the building as possible and kill the senators while they are meeting."
Shimon Prokupecz OUTFRONT with this scary stuff.
Shimon, what were you learning about this plot?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, certainly scary. And you have to say, you know, thankfully here, based on everything we know, that the FBI was able to learn of this woman. And this was essentially a sting operation, right? They introduced informants people who are cooperating with the FBI into her life after it appears they found her through social media posts she'd been posting about ISIS. She's been posting about other things that she wanted to do and that seems to be how the FBI came across her, and then using these informants they were able to build a relationship with her these informants built this relationship with her.
And some of the things that she talked about and the harm that she wanted to do -- here's just a taste of some of what she was telling them. This was all recorded by the FBI. She said at one point that, quote, on the attack, maybe we time it where we know there's a meeting with the senators to try and get a good enough explosive in there to kill the senators and ideally, to destroy as much of the building as possible.
[19:35:04]
And then she also talked about just the impact that wanted to have here. She said, quote, "I don't want to take this kind of risk and then have to kill -- have it kill what two or three people," just the extent of the damage that she allegedly wanted to sort of hope that by building this bomb, she was talking to these informants about how to build the bomb and then at one point the FBI has her on tape going to a Home Depot where she is buying allegedly some of these items. Look, this is what, sadly, you know, one of the things that is so
striking about this is that she is 35 years old. For someone to have been radicalized, the FBI says, at such a late point is certainly striking. She was in court, she was detained, and the case will go forward.
BOLDUAN: Much more to learn on this, but already so much revealed.
Shimmy, thanks so much. I really appreciate it.
Also tonight, the Justice Department is seizing the opportunity to defend Flock cameras.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN SARCONE, FIRST ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK: Whoever is against having those cameras where they call chief flock cameras. Think about this of what just occurred, what we prevented. OK, you don't have flock cameras. How are law enforcement going to detect and see somebody walking around, possibly looking to blow up your state capitol or commit terrorist acts?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: But that's not how many Americans view Flock's nationwide network of automated license plate readers.
MeeEna Duerson is OUTFRONT on the growing outrage over what some see as the makings of a surveillance state.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEENA DUERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So we're in downtown Minneapolis where hundreds of people have come out to protest against Flock.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Flock cameras, bro. I hate those things.
DUERSON: They're protesting what they say is surveillance that he didn't sign up for.
(CHANTING)
DUERSON: One of the biggest faces of this protest called himself NoMark. He says he's a masked vigilante who's saving the country from Flock.
DUERSON (voice-over): Flock license plate cameras use A.I. to track vehicles. Police contract with the company using its national database to find stolen cars and missing people.
But dozens of officers are now accused of misusing the data, like a cop investigators say searched for his ex 717 times.
In videos that have gotten millions of views, NoMark destroys the cameras, making him a hero to a growing following angry over surveillance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I took down a Flock camera in honor of you.
NOMARK, ONLINE VIGILANTE: Look at that.
DUERSON: Oh wow, someone got this one.
NOMARK: Someone beat me to it.
It seemed like every week I would see a new article about how these cameras are being misused, how they're being used to stalk people.
DUERSON: When you hear law enforcement talk about all the uses for these cameras, What's your reaction?
NOMARK: Flock cameras haven't been here forever. Crimes, they can solve crimes without them. But I think for every crime that these cameras solve, there's 10 issues with them.
DUERSON: What do you makes these cameras different? Because there's surveillance cameras everywhere.
NOMARK: They can look up exactly where you've been. It stores your information. Like if they put in your license plate, they can have it. You know, this person is right here, right now.
DUERSON: Do you feel like it's too much information?
NOMARK: I think it's way too much information. I think it's way too powerful, especially, you know, you don't even need a warrant to search it. You can look up anyone, even if they're not suspected of a crime.
DUERSON: Flock is one of a handful of companies that make ALPRs, which is an automated license plate reader. And they work by capturing when your vehicle goes past them, the license plate, but also any markings on the vehicle that are distinguishing.
Flock says they have over 120,000 cameras across 49 states.
DUERSON (voice-over): Anger against Flock has now reached a fever pitch. We found its cameras have been vandalized in more than 33 states.
Earlier this month in Winona, Minnesota, police announced that every single Flock camera in town had been stolen.
DUERSON: This is one of the eight cameras that Winona police say were cut down by vandals.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) the Flock camera!
DUERSON: Did you get that? This guy just drove by and shouted, (EXPLETIVE DELETED) the Flock cameras. That seems like basically the sentiment that led to these getting chopped down in the middle of the night.
JEROME CHRISTENSON, WINONA, MN CITY COUNCIL MEMBER: Yep, that's the post. You betcha.
DUERSON: So somebody just cut this off?
CHRISTENSON: Uh-huh. Just got up here and --
DUERSON (voice-over): Jerome Christensen is on the City Council here in Winona.
DUERSON: What do you think should happen?
CHRISTENSON: I'd put him back right where they were. I think that they provide a useful tool for our local police catching the bad guy.
DUERSON: Do you think that these are legitimate concerns that people are having?
CHRISTENSON: Of course they are. A.I. is creeping into our everyday lives. We're on the edge of the profoundly unfamiliar.
[19:40:02]
DUERSON (voice-over): Nearly two weeks after the cameras were stolen, Winona police announced they would not be replaced.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, so I had prepared to talk about the horrors of Flock cameras and surveillance, et cetera. I'm now going to say thank you to all of you.
While I don't like rewarding bad behavior, I'm glad to see the Flock cameras gone.
CHRISTENSON: For the moment, we're not going to rush out and buy new cameras and put them up and make a big deal out of it. Just let it settle down. It'll go away.
DUERSON: Do you think people are going to forget about this?
CHRISTENSON: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, as soon as the football season starts. If the Vikings start winning, nobody in Winona's going to pay a whole hell of a lot of attention.
DUERSON (voice-over): Last week, Flock announced changes to address criticisms, shortening the time the company stores data and adding safeguards to flag inappropriate lookups. In an interview with CNN, CEO Garrett Langley apologized to those who felt they'd been victimized by the technology.
GARRETT LANGLEY, FOUNDER & CEO, FLOCK: I'm sorry that the system has failed you. I'm sorry that you no longer trust the police department. That job is to protect you.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Does Flock take accountability?
LANGLEY: I think the whole -- the whole industry does. You know, we have an obligation to make everyone feel safe.
DUERSON (voice-over): But the backlash shows no sign of slowing down. Anti-Flock activists behind the page DeFock say they've tracked over 100 cities who've stopped using the cameras. Politicians on both sides of the aisle are now calling for the cameras to be regulated or even banned.
DUERSON: Do you think that there is a movement towards this kind of vigilante justice? Do you think it's a dangerous way to go?
NOMARK: I think a lot of people feel that the system is not working right now, so people are starting to take it into their own hands. I mean, I wish people didn't have to do that. I wish the system just worked.
I think it is a little dangerous. I think it's a little scary that people do this, but I mean, I do think it's -- it's nice to see people fight back.
DUERSON (voice-over): Meena Duerson, CNN, Minneapolis.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BOLDUAN: Meena, thank you. Wow.
OUTFRONT for us next, breaking news. Hayden Panettiere's boyfriend speaking out after the actress's sudden death, a death that is still under investigation.
Plus, First Lady Melania Trump making her first public appearance in more than a month.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELANIA TRUMP, U.S. FIRST LADY: Good afternoon. I heard you missed me. Here I am.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:46:35]
BOLDUAN: Now, we have more breaking news. Hayden Panettiere's boyfriend is breaking his silence. CNN just obtained a statement from Brian Hickerson through his attorney. In part, it says that Hayden's death remains under investigation, and it is important to allow that investigation to proceed. As has been publicly reported, police confirmed there were no signs of foul play.
Panettiere, who openly struggled with addiction, she died on Sunday in South Carolina. And Brian Hickerson, who called 911, and he showed the responding officers a bag of her medications. Now the DEA is reportedly involved in the investigation.
Dianne Gallagher is OUTFRONT in South Carolina for us tonight. And, Dianne, Hayden Panettiere has actually talked about her abusive
relationship that she had with Brian Hickerson. She wrote about in her memoir that really just came out. And in part of it, she wrote, "One night, he busts up my face so badly, I don't leave the house for weeks."
Hickerson's acknowledged the domestic abuse. What are you learning?
DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He has acknowledged that domestic abuse in interviews with TMZ in the past. And look, back in 2019, the Superior Court of Los Angeles County Clerk's Office says that he was convicted of two felony accounts of injuring a spouse, cohabitant or child's parent. He was sentenced to four years probation, Kate, and he had recently requested to reduce that felony charges. But a judge denied that just days before on August 13th, Hayden Panettiere was declared dead inside an apartment here in Greenville, South Carolina, which is where Brian Hickerson is from.
This is where police were called to and emergency responders. And I do want you to see some of the mementos and flowers that have been left in front of these mill lofts in Greenville. The police in Greenville are out with a new statement tonight reiterating that they say there were no signs of foul play during the initial response and investigation.
However, we need to point out that investigation does of course continue. And as you mentioned, both ABC and "The New York Times" citing sources familiar say that the Federal Drug Enforcement Administration is now involved.
Now the Greenville police say that they are going to continue this investigation, that they are going to let this play out, working with the coroner and then determine if a criminal investigation is warranted -- Kate.
BOLDUAN: Dianne, thank you for being here and being there. An investigation continues.
Also tonight, First Lady Melania Trump is back out in public after a record-breaking absence. So much so that she joked about it today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
M. TRUMP: Good afternoon. I heard you missed me. Here I am. Welcome to the White House.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
The first lady noting her absence while announcing a $2 million scholarship initiative to help foster children. Melania Trump has made 38 public appearances this year. Today marks her first in 32 days, a full month out of public view, her longest absence as first lady.
OUTFRONT now, Kate Andersen Brower, who has covered this first lady extensively. She's also the author of "First Women" and also author of a new book called "We the Women: The Hidden Heroes Who Shaped America".
It's good to see you, Kate.
Melania Trump, she went so long with no public events that even she joked about it herself today. I mean, how unusual is this for a first lady?
KATE ANDERSEN BROWER, AUTHOR, "FIRST WOMEN": It's very unusual. I mean, we barely ever see her compared to Michelle Obama, Laura Bush, who -- Laura Bush went to all 50 states. She visited more than 75 countries. We normally see these women a lot more.
I don't know if that matters in terms of what she's actually getting done though, because if you look at what she's done in terms of the Take It Down Act that was passed last year, making it illegal to post deep fake photos on the Internet and what she's doing with Ukrainian children in Russia, I think that she is doing more than she did last year with that. If that's the bar which she didn't do much, you know, in the first term in the Be Best campaign that she had where very little got done.
BOLDUAN: Yeah, I mean, you know, the job is whatever each first lady wants to make of it, because there's no job description for it. But there is, you know, something the White House has been facing down, at least in terms of this week, is questions about President Trump's ever-president assistant, Natalie Harp. And that's because the Democratic Senator Jon Ossoff, he is trying to make it a thing, calling it out, and the closeness of that aide to Donald Trump.
Do you think that could have anything to do with the first lady's timing here?
BROWER: It was strange to see her be so self-deprecating. It was a -- it was kind of unlike her to make a joke about herself today. And I think that it is something that's deeply upsetting to her. It's been reported that she's upset at all the reports that President Trump is so close to Natalie Harp that they, you know, traveled together. He brought her on the military plane and left the decoy behind with Secretary Rubio.
This is somebody he trusts implicitly, and she's with him all the time. Surely, Melania Trump knows this, but she clearly -- no married woman wants to have those rumors circulating. So, I do think that's part of it.
BOLDUAN: You know, the absence -- sources today told CNN that the absence is deliberate and you're talking about how she's prioritizing policy over a public presence. I mean, I guess you raise an important question, which is, what does it matter? What is doing the job? And I guess that's kind of for everyone to be their own judge. I mean, what are your sources telling you?
BROWER: Well, I mean, exactly. There's nothing in the Constitution that lays out what a first lady is supposed to do. There's no pay. You know, each woman has approached it differently. Jill Biden was the first lady to work outside of the White House,
which is kind of incredible to think about. We see Jill Biden and Michelle Obama now more than we see the sitting first lady. So, I think each -- it's kind of up to them. It's their personality, how much they want to do.
And I think that Melania Trump is someone who doesn't do things to make people happy. It's about she does what she wants to do, basically.
BOLDUAN: Yeah, it's great to see you, Kate. Thank you.
OUTFRONT for us next. President Trump trying to cozy up to Kim Jong- un, at the same time, a U.S. ally is warning that Kim Jong-un could now possess up to 120 nuclear warheads.
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[19:56:31]
BOLDUAN: Breaking news, Iran now saying it is rejecting President Trump's threat, the threat being the most crushing economic operation ever taken against any country. Iran's foreign minister posting this in response, "The so-called economic D-Day is a diversion from America's own crisis, unprecedented debt, and surging interest costs."
This comes as President Trump is trying to cozy up again to Kim Jong- un at the expense of a longtime ally, South Korea, which is warning tonight that that North Korea could now possess up to 120 nuclear warheads.
Will Ripley is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tonight, a new suspected ballistic missile launch from North Korea, the third test South Korea and Japan tracked just this month.
But North Korean state media is unusually silent, as one of Pyongyang's most powerful voices pushes back on President Trump's latest claims about Kim Jong Un.
North Korean leader's younger sister Kim Yo Jong says she knows absolutely nothing about any recent communication between her brother and Trump. "Perhaps it is the only matter I do not know about in relation to our supreme leadership's foreign policy," she says.
The statement follows an extraordinary few days. Trump touting how great he gets along with Kim, posting this old picture and even a meme of Kim on the phone saying, "Hey Donald, we cool, right?"
At Trump's direction, the U.S. and South Korea are abruptly cutting their biggest summertime military exercise from 11 days to five. Trump calling the exercises costly and hostile, blaming Seoul for failing to help denuclearize Iran. Kim's sister seems unimpressed. "Reducing the scale or duration of an
exercise does not change the nature of military exercises that are provocative and aggressive," she says.
South Korea's President Lee Jae Myung posting on X he respects President Trump's effort to create conditions for dialogue and says he hopes it can restart talks with Pyongyang.
TRUMP: Yeah, I will be.
RIPLEY (voice-over): Trump telling reporters he plans to meet with Kim this year.
TRUMP: He has 57 very powerful nuclear weapons, should have never allowed it to happen. They should have never allowed it. If I were president, I wouldn't have allowed it.
RIPLEY (voice-over): But experts say Kim's nuclear arsenal has only grown since Trump's historic diplomacy during his first term ended with no deal.
And Kim is no longer nearly as isolated. His closest military partner now, Russian strongman Vladimir Putin.
This weekend, as Trump was posting about Kim, Kim was publicly praising Putin and their anti-US alliance, invoking their shared struggle for justice. North Korea is supplying weapons and manpower for Putin's war in Ukraine, giving Kim's military modern combat experience.
Kim's sister acknowledges her brother still has personally good memories and feelings toward Trump, but says, "Nevertheless, the United States' hostile policy has not changed." In fact, earlier this year, the North Korean leader told his parliament the Iran war proves he was right not to give up his nuclear weapons.
"The United States is now resorting to acts of state-sponsored terrorism and aggression," he said. "The hostile forces wanted us to make a different choice preaching a payment for our giving up of nuclear weapons, but the present situation clearly proves our nuclear possession is irreversible."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RIPLEY: So, if denuclearization is off the table as North Korea insists it is, then the big question becomes, Kate, what do Trump and Kim actually have to talk about? Remember, the first summit was widely seen as the superficial photo op.
As for the timing of a potential meeting, "The Wall Street Journal" is saying possibly November, but remember, last year, President Trump floated a meeting around the same time when he was in Asia, North Korea never responded, but they are responding this time. So, we'll see what happens.
BOLDUAN: We will see what happens. It's great to see you. Will, thank you so much for that.
And thank you all so much for joining us. I'm Kate Bolduan.
"AC360" starts now.
