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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump The Socialist?; Kimmel Pulls Interview; A.I. "Actress" Speaks To CNN. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired September 10, 2026 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:23]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Donald Trump, a socialist? That's what some in his own party are calling him as he is promising $5,000 to every American if the GOP wins the midterms.
Plus, Jimmy Kimmel pulling his interview with Democratic Senate candidate James Talarico from ABC, saying the FCC threatened him. The sole Democratic FCC commissioner is OUTFRONT.
And her name is Tilly Norwood. Tilly Norwood, have you heard of her? Yeah, look at her. Guess what? She's not real. She's an A.I.-generated actress, and she's speaking to CNN in her first on-camera interview.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
(MUSIC)
BURNETT: Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
And OUTFRONT tonight, Trump the socialist. That is what some in Trump's own party are calling him after Trump promised every American $5,000 if the Republicans win the midterms. Now, that would cost $1.3 trillion.
Now, the conservative "National Review" headlines it this way: Trump Breaks Glass, Joins Socialists, Embraces Bribery.
Congressman Thomas Massie accusing Trump of, quote, flirting with socialism and vote buying last night. And Marjorie Taylor Greene, another former Trump ally, saying no matter which party you vote for, you get socialism. And if being called a socialist isn't enough of a slam from his fellow Republicans --
And by the way, that's kind of the nastiest thing that, you know, they can call somebody -- they are also signing the alarm about the economic fallout from such a plan of issuing everybody $5,000 checks.
Here's Florida Governor Ron DeSantis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GOV. RON DESANTIS (R), FLORIDA: What I don't think you want to do is borrow another million -- trillion and a half dollars and then just try to flood that into the economy because that will lead to more inflation. That will lead to more debt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Econ 101. And of course, Trump has added more to America's debt over his two terms already than any president in American history, so fiscal responsibility is not high on his list. But just listen to what one of Trump's own supporters told us at his midterm convention.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not into free stuff. I would prefer him to give $5,000 towards paying down the deficit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now that is fiscal responsibility. Trump, though, insists that his $5,000 checks won't add to the ballooning deficit because, he says, they're already paid for.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
INTERVIEWER: Why not just give the money now? If you have the money, why not give it now?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Because they can't, I'll tell you what, because the Democrats can't do it, because with them, it's negative growth. With us, it's so positive. So, we're taking in $21 trillion. Nobody, no country's ever taken in anywhere near that. It's four or five times higher than the next -- all because of that beautiful word that you and I love more than most others, tariffs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I don't know that she loves that word, but I know that tariffs math that he said there just simply doesn't add up. What'd you say, $21 trillion? It's more like $200 to $300 billion, if that. Tariffs are not anywhere close, not even in the ballpark to getting near those numbers that Trump throws out so cavalierly.
Never mind the pain of tariffs and the costs that they have actually imposed upon Americans. But what Trump is promising is exactly the same thing that he railed against. when he was not president. I mean, remember Biden student loan forgiveness program?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: So that what he wanted to do is buy votes. They taunted young people and a lot of other people that had loans.
They didn't get it and just a wasted -- a wasted promise. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Is this like the kindergarten taunt takes one to no one? Well, he went after Obama in the days after Superstorm Sandy. At the time, he wrote, "Don't let Obama buy the election by handing out unlimited free money."
And he went after former New York City Mayor Mike Bloomberg, accusing him of bribing voters after Bloomberg raised $16 million to a fund that helped Florida felons get the chance to vote, writing, "Wow, nobody realized how far Mini Mike Bloomberg went in bribing ex- prisoners to get out and vote for Sleepy Joe."
Well, now what Trump's doing sort of smells rather similar, doesn't it? And it's not the first time he's done this, because ever since he's returned to office, Trump has actually floated giving money out to people.
Okay, first, I want to go through the list here. First, it was the DOGE dividend checks. Remember them?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: There's even under consideration a new concept where we give 20 percent of the DOGE savings to American citizens.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And then there were the $2,000 checks that Trump promised from the trillions of dollars in tariff revenue, which I guess means he's spending it again on this new $5,000. But anyway, forget that. Just remember the first time he promised you $2,000 from the tariffs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:05:02]
TRUMP: We're going to issue a dividend to our middle-income people and lower income people of about $2,000.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Then weeks later, Trump was at it again. That time he promised to give Obamacare recipients up to $1,500 rather than renew their expiring healthcare subsidies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I love the idea of money going directly to the people, not to the insurance companies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Okay, well, obviously none of those things have come to fruition, which makes you wonder, about what happened to this campaign promise. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Remember what they say? Promises made, promises kept. That's me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Alayna Treene is OUTFRONT live in Dallas at Trump's midterm convention.
And, Alayna, I know you have some new reporting tonight on Trump's $5,000 check pledge essentially to voters. You're learning that there were a lot of people in his administration who were totally caught off guard by this.
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Erin. I spoke with several different members of the Trump administration who essentially told me they were surprised when the president made that public vow on the stage last night about these $5,000 checks. Now I will say I spoke with one of his political advisors who told me that there was a small group of senior advisors that the president had floated this idea to people like Jason Miller, James Blair, notable names because they're members of the president's political operation outside of the White House.
And I think that gives you just a little bit of a sense of kind of where this new pledge is really coming from. I'd also argue you know from a lot of Republicans we heard from not just within the president's orbit but Republican lawmakers on Capitol Hill obviously Congress is going to be the place where any sort of legislation like this would need to be approved because they control the purse springs the purse strings and spending many of them caught off guard, and I also was told one White House official said that they were kind of scrambling this morning to put together a list of talking points to be able to share with the media after that announcement.
Notably, Erin, that normally happens before the president makes an announcement like this to try to release it simultaneously once he says it to explain it. The other point out is we're hearing a lot of different details. I mean, actually, really say a lot of different remarks on a lack of details. We heard the president -- he gave an interview with a local CBS reporter today and essentially said despite what he said yesterday about this needs, you know, we need Republicans to be in control of both the house and the Senate in order to get these $5,000 checks out, today, he suggested perhaps, he doesn't need congressional approval. Not really clear what executive authority he's referencing that he thinks he can do that with, but kind of a changing narrative here.
So, kind of, I think, a little bit all over the place when we've talked to Republicans about this. One thing I'd point out as well is our colleague, Steve Contorno, was actually on the ground talking with some of the president's supporters here. He spoke with one person who said, I don't really like this idea.
We also heard from a Republican donor, someone who actually co-hosted a fundraiser with the president's son Donald Trump Jr. last night. He also expressed some skepticism about this. So, I think there's a lot of questions still about how this would actually work and whether or not this is something they are seriously considering, or at least we're seriously considering before he said it on stage last night, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Alayna, thank you very much.
And S.E. Cupp and former Congressman Jamaal Bowman are here. We're going to be joined by Congressman Jason Crow in just a moment, who's also outside that convention, by the way. Needless to say, he didn't get an invitation to come.
I wonder if they would have taken his $25,000 to come in. Oh, I'm sure they would. That would have been interesting.
Okay. So, S.E., does anybody fall for this?
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think this is landing with a thud for a few reasons. One, it's a tacit admission that if you have to buy votes, things are not going as well as you are publicly saying they're going. You know, Trump and Republicans are crowing about a great economy. If things are going so well, you don't have to buy votes.
And you've had total control of Congress and the White House and the court. I mean, you've had all the time to do all the things and make good on the promises. You shouldn't need to pay people if you're doing that.
For another, I think people remember not getting checks. that Trump has promised in the past. You showed them.
So, this is landing with a thud, and I think Republicans are doing some self-preservation. They don't want to be tied to this idea and this, like I said, admission that things aren't going as well as we're saying they're going. That's why I think you're seeing a lot of them say, this isn't my idea. We shouldn't do this.
BURNETT: And there's also, Jamaal, something interesting about the fact that, from Alayna's reporting, okay, that maybe Jason Mill -- maybe there were a couple of people who had had some sort of a -- I don't even know how conversation with him about some sort of an idea like this. But then he just went out on stage and blurts it out like that.
I mean, this isn't a small thing. I mean, it's $5,000, it's $1.3 trillion. It's a massive thing, and it's something that's going to stick in people's memories, and it almost seems like he just sort of --
JAMAAL BOWMAN (D), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Yeah.
BURNETT: Let me throw it out there?
BOWMAN: Well, Trump has been doing this for 10 years. [19:10:01]
He always goes on stage and says whatever comes to his mind. He's like a bad freestyle emcee where what he says is terrible and has a negative impact on the electorate. It's like the Michigan game the other day where it was like a Hail Mary pass and the clock ran out and said, no, you got one second left, and he did another Hail Mary.
Trump continues to throw Hail Marys because he's failed the American people at every turn with DOGE, with war, with gas prices, with bitcoin. with the Trump -- with the ballroom. He's lied to the American people. He said we bring down the deficit. He said we weren't going to war. Those two things were a lie, and he's lying again now, and it's not going to work.
BURNETT: I mean, you know what's amazing when you think about it, there's things you remember. GasBuddy today reported in California, there are certain stations that can't even put the price of diesel because it's exceeded $9.99.
CUPP: Wow.
BURNETT: Right? I mean, these are things that-- I mean, that's just incredible.
So, hold on one second here to both of you, because we do have Jason Crow as a congressman, is joining us here as well.
So let me just bring you in, Congressman.
I was making somewhat of a joke saying if you had been willing to pay $25,000, would they have let you into the convention? Because apparently that's what your Republican colleagues who are there from Congress paid to attend. So instead of getting money from the president for their campaigns, they're paying him.
What do you think about the $5,000 check idea? Is it landing?
REP. JASON CROW (D-CO): Well, first of all, Erin, I am fine just right here looking at the convention center. I don't really feel like I need to go in at all, let alone pay $25,000 to get in. My view is fine.
Listen, this $5,000, another in a long line of broken promises. That's the first point. The second is costs over a trillion dollars. Where are the so-called fiscal hawks anymore? All the so-called fiscal conservatives have disappeared, right?
A third of the national debt right now has been incurred under our Trump presidency, $9.8 trillion in the first presidency, $3.8 trillion and counting under this presidency.
And the last point, maybe this is the most important one, is this is a bribe. He's come right out and said, I will give $5,000 to every adult American if we win the midterms. This is bribe and if any Democrat would be saying this they would be losing their darn minds. So let's just call it out for what it is.
BURNETT: So, let me give you a chance to explain because we were also showing how Trump had said Bloomberg giving money to convicted felons in Florida to enable them to vote was bribery and he had called Joe Biden student loan forgiveness bribery to get votes. You supported those $2,000 stimulus checks in the wake of COVID how do you see this as different from that?
CROW: Yeah. Totally night and day situation. We were literally in a hundred-year pandemic. People were dying by the thousands, businesses were going under.
I sat on the Small Business Committee during that, actually, and I actually helped build these programs with Republicans, by the way. This is bipartisan. Republicans and Democrats came together and said, we need to prevent a depression because we were on the verge of a great depression while thousands of Americans were dying.
And we figured out, how do we stop this? How do we arrest this crisis? Contrast that to now, Donald Trump, the crises that we're facing are all of Donald Trump's making, right, his failing war in Iran. the healthcare crisis that he brought upon by gutting the healthcare system and moving all that wealth to the top 1 percent in large companies.
And now, he's saying, oh, I'm about to lose an election, so how do I fix that problem that I've made for myself? Well, why don't we just give $5,000 to people if we win the election?
BURNETT: Well, there's one group of people who is terrified about what's happening, and they're bond market investors. You know, massive fire going on in that market.
I noticed earlier at the top of the show, Congressman, before you were plugged in, but, you know, "The National Review" was, you know, calling this socialism and bribery and Marjorie Taylor Greene was saying it was socialism and Thomas Massie was saying it was socialism as the greatest insult that could be lobbied by a Republican at a Republican, right?
And obviously, it's the -- what they rail against in the Democratic Party and the Democratic Party, where the Democratic Socialists have been rising in power and influence. Do you see an overlap between the president and some in your party who are further to the left than where you are, but do you see an overlap there?
CROW: No, and I think -- here's what I think is happening. I think congressional Republicans and Donald Trump They're morally bankrupt. They're out of ideas. They have no ideas left. They don't stand for anything anymore.
So, the only thing they can do, since they have no solutions, they've been in power for two years, everything has gotten worse under their watch, is to try to label people, cast aspersions. You know, this ism, that ism, all the isms. It's lost all meaning anymore because all they're doing is breaking
promises and telling lies, right? So meanwhile, me and the candidates that I have helped recruit that I'm mentoring as the battleground chair for House Democrats, we are focused on ending the war in Iran, ending the reckless trade war that's gutting businesses and farmers and ranchers, fixing the devastation to our health care system and the closure of hospitals that are happening already and continuing to happen into the new year.
[19:15:22]
That is our focus and we're not going to stop focusing on that.
BURNETT: All right. Congressman Crow, I appreciate your time and thank you very much.
Jamaal, you know, it was interesting when I asked him about overlap between, you know, Trump being called a socialist and the DSA. Okay. there is one Democrat on the ballot, at least one, who is supportive or somewhat supportive, I'm going to read you the exact quote, of Trump's $5,000 idea, okay?
This is the Democratic candidate for governor, nominee for governor in Texas, okay? Gina Hinojosa. She just said, quote, "I support Trump's idea to send $5,000 checks to Texans, but it can't be about who's in power, it has to be about giving the people their power back."
Okay. Can you just explain? You know, I mean, that's an unholy alliance there, okay? But how do you see that?
BOWMAN: Yeah, so first of all, this is not what socialism is. Socialism isn't sending people $5,000 for their vote. That's not socialism. Socialism believes in --
BURNETT: That's bribery.
BOWMAN: That's bribery. Socialism is not bribery. They're not the same. Socialism is about the equitable sharing of resources amongst working class people to ensure everyone has dignity and respect in our democracy.
I don't know what this unholy alliance is about, but for me, it's about strengthening the economy from the bottom up, raising minimum wage, investing in universal healthcare, taxing the wealthiest Americans to ensure they contribute their fair share, making housing affordable. That's how you build a holistic, strong economy for everyone so that we can all have dignity. Sending a single check is not enough.
BURNETT: So, S.E., you have enter into this -- that there's a crisis in this country with borrowing. America borrows too much, and the bills are going to come due. And if they truly come due, we could be facing a crisis that none of us can comprehend, okay?
CUPP: Yeah, yeah. BURNETT: So, in that context, Ron DeSantis speaks up and says, "This has got to stop. This drunken sailor business has to stop." Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R), FLORIDA: What I don't think you want to do is borrow another million -- trillion and a half dollars and then just try to flood that into the economy because that will lead to more inflation. That will lead to more debt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Okay, that's -- that's not a generic comment.
CUPP: Yeah.
BURNETT: He said that in response to a question about the $5,000 checks.
CUPP: Yeah, what's interesting is, usually-- so, I've lived a lot of Republican lives, right? I've been through all the iterations of the fiscal responsibility, the Club for Growth, the Tea Party, the bailouts. I mean, I've been waiting for the fiscal responsibility.
BURNETT: Now we're in the drunken sailor era.
CUPP: Well, what's interesting is, usually, every, you know, other cycle, a Republican will talk about fiscal responsibility when a Democrat's in charge. We have a Republican in charge, and you've got Republicans trying to talk about fiscal responsibility because we haven't seen it in a really long time.
Every Republican that's come in has come in promising it, and then they spend their way, through -- Trump is, you know, no exception. In fact, he's put us in more debt. So, like so many people, I'm deeply worried about the debt and the fact that stupid ideas like this seem to treat it as if it's some imaginary number.
It's not. It is real. My generation, our kids, will have to pay for this at some point.
BURNETT: They will, and the impact on the standard of living could be profound.
CUPP: We're already experiencing it right now.
BURNETT: All right, thank you both very much.
And next, the breaking news, Iranian-backed forces capturing a key port city. This is a major win tonight for Tehran, and Trump fumbling his back-to-back convention speeches are up against highly anticipated NFL games, get it? Fumbling.
Harry Enten tells us something we don't know about Trump and the NFL.
And Tilly Norwood, new A.I. actress, speaks out in her first on-camera interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
INTERVIEWER: Hi, Tilly.
TILLY NORWOOD, A.I. ACTRESS: Well, hello there. You've got quite the setup going on. Looks like a proper production.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:23:56]
BURNETT: Breaking news, a major win for Iran, Tehran-backed forces capturing a key port city, risking a massive escalation in the war tonight. All happening in the Red Sea, where Iranian proxies are trying to take control of another critical global shipping route used by Saudi Arabia to bypass the Strait of Hormuz, which, of course, has been effectively shut down by Iran for months.
It comes as the price of oil skyrockets, hitting $108 a barrel. I believe it was a few days ago when I was saying it was back over 101. I mean, it has been shooting up again, and we're back to some of the highest levels here, back to levels of May.
Seth Jones is OUTFRONT now, president of the Defense and Security Department at CSIS, also former advisor to the commanding general of U.S. Special Operations Forces in Afghanistan.
Seth, I appreciate your time.
So, the war on the Red Sea escalating. Obviously, immediate effect on energy prices, oil prices specifically. I mentioned downline GasBuddy saying places in California can't even display the price of fuel in some cases because diesel is now north of $999.
[19:25:03]
And the U.S. -- CNN is exclusively reporting that more than 100 U.S. military advisors are now on the ground in Saudi Arabia because of what is happening here on the Bab el-Mandeb Strait.
So, what's the escalation you're seeing here?
SETH JONES, PRESIDENT, DEFENSE & SECURITY DEPARTMENT, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC & INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: Well, Erin, this is a disturbing development. This gives an Iranian ally it's not a puppet, but at least an Iranian ally, the Houthis in Yemen growing control of the coastline in Yemen along the Red Sea. They have used that historically to conduct strikes against Israel, to conduct strikes against Saudi Arabia, and strikes against U.S. naval ships in the Red Sea and the Arabian Sea.
And now, this also has the ability to constrict yet a second major choke point. First, the Strait of Hormuz, now the Bab el-Mandeb Strait, has huge commercial implications as well.
BURNETT: Yeah, huge commercial implications. Maybe we're only just seeing a little bit of that, right, when we see oil go to 108 and climbing.
And now, Trump is obviously threatening in response to bomb Pickaxe Mountain, which is the English name for the mountain where Iran has built underground facilities that are suspected to be a nuclear site. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We noticed there's a little activity at Pickaxe. I would advise Iran not to get cute because we will have to hit them very hard. We have no choice, right?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now, Seth, what he said there, we've noticed there's a little activity in Pickaxe. I just want to put the context here, which is that he's saying that just after you released a new analysis with all these new satellite images that show that major buildup, right? You are the ones who put that out there.
So, what more are you actually seeing at Pickaxe?
JONES: Well, Erin, what looks to be the case, we used not just satellite imagery analysis, but synthetic aperture radar analysis going back six years And what we've seen is a major increase in construction at Pickaxe Mountain, indicative now of more than just excavation, but highly likely activity going on well beneath that mountain.
There are a range of alarming concerns that Iran's Nuclear program is expanding beneath that mountain. It's solid granite, really hard for the US to strike with any of the GBU-57s. So, if the US does try to strike, frankly, Erin, it's going to be really hard to get down that deep in a mountain against Iran's nuclear facilities.
BURNETT: Which, you know, the context of all this, right, is of course this is coming from a military that Trump says was decimated and obliterated. And I know you also have new reporting about Iran producing ballistic missiles, right, some of which we've seen in discussion about missiles that they have rarely used even in recent days. But what are you learning about production now?
JONES: Well, we're looking, Erin, at some facilities in southeastern Iran where we're seeing more activity in building ballistic missiles, including liquid propellant and solid propellant missiles. These are ones that can quite easily be fired across into Gulf states.
What seems to be the case is that the lack of major conflict right now has allowed the Iranians really to rebuild, certainly drones as well, but lots of ballistic missile production right now by the Iranians.
BURNETT: Very sobering. Thank you very much, Seth Jones.
And next, Jimmy Kimmel pulls his interview with Democratic Senate candidate James Talarico. He accuses Trump's FCC of threatening him. We'll be joined by the only Democratic FCC commissioner to explain what she understands is happening.
Plus, Trump, who prides himself with being a great TV producer, has a primetime speech two nights in a row, but he put it up against the two kickoff games for the NFL.
And our Harry Enten tells us something we don't know about Trump and the NFL.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:33:10]
BURNETT: Breaking news, you're looking at live pictures from the Republican convention in Dallas, where speakers have been making Texas Democratic Senate candidate James Talarico a major target. Talarico right now in a tight race with Trump-backed Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton.
But tonight, the fight over Talarico is playing out far beyond Texas. Jimmy Kimmel says the FCC is threatening him and ABC over an interview he taped with Talarico.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY KIMMEL, LATE NIGHT HOST: Something has changed. Now that he's president, his FCC has threatened me, threatened our show, threatened our network, ABC, our affiliates, our local stations based on simple, traditional editorial decisions, guest bookings, it would seem they don't like.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Kimmel's scheduled to air that interview tonight. He said that he would post it on his YouTube channel instead of on the ABC broadcast. That way, Kimmel said ABC wouldn't violate the FCC's rule requiring the network give Talarico's opponent equal time.
But that's a big thing to say because it is important to know that there has been a longstanding exemption to the equal time rule when it comes to late night shows. So what's changed?
OUTFRONT now, Anna Gomez, the FCC commissioner.
And Commissioner, I appreciate your time. So, Jimmy Kimmel says the FCC threatened him. But the White House says, I quote, "Jimmy Kimmel is play-acting, as he often does, to create a false narrative about this administration's policies. Chairman Carr has not threatened him regarding interviewing James Tallarico or any other candidate."
Do you know what the threats were or what happened here, Commissioner? ANNA GOMEZ, FCC COMMISSIONER: Yes. This administration has been on a pressure campaign against the broadcasters, and in particular against ABC and Jimmy Kimmel.
[19:35:01]
So I can't say exactly what happened here, but what I do know is that Disney, the parent company of ABC, has been pushing back against this administration because of this pattern of threats against the content of its broadcasts, its news programs, "The View," Jimmy Kimmel in particular, and it has said in court filing in a complaint against the FCC for violation of its First Amendment rights that it has self- edited because of these threats from the administration.
So there is a pattern here that is clearly designed to get ABC and its programs to only provide content that this administration favors.
BURNETT: Well, self-editing and what to cover. I mean, that's the big the big crisis in question for journalism in this time that we're living in. James Talarico weighed in on the where the interview going to YouTube and what happened. Let me just play this exchange for you, Commissioner.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES TALARICO (D), TEXAS SENATE CANDIDATE: I think it's the most dangerous form of cancel culture. People at the top, powerful politicians, powerful media executives censoring what we watch, what we read, what we what we say. And that, again, should be a concern to everyone who believes in the First Amendment and believes in the freedom of speech.
INTERVIEWER: So, what do you think ABC should do? You think they should air it anyway?
TALARICO: I'm still hopeful that we can have this interview on the air.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So this is the big question and the conundrum, right? Because on the air, right, apparently it's going on YouTube. That's what Jimmy Kimmel said. You talk about the climate of threats, self- editing.
So where do you fall on this question as to whether ABC is right to pull the interview from its late-night broadcast and put it on YouTube instead?
GOMEZ: Well, as the regulator of media, it is inappropriate for me to comment and to pressure any media entity about what their editorial decisions are. That is up to ABC to make that decision. That goes both ways.
But it's important to note that the viewers are the ones that are being harmed here because their First Amendment rights to see the content of their choice and to get information and to see newsworthy figures is being affected by this administration's campaign against broadcasters.
BURNETT: So, and I understand and respect the point that you're making, that it shouldn't be about telling people what to do or not do, right? That would, in a sense, be going against the First Amendment in its own way. But when you look at broadcasters and that equal time rule, some people may be confused, but it really was to apply to news broadcasts, whether that's the nightly news. I remember how careful NBC was about that when I worked there at NBC.
Late night, though, has been exempt from the equal time rules for decades, right? It has not been a part of those rules. So why do you think it's important that that exemption, which clearly is under incredible pressure from this administration at ABC but elsewhere as well, why do you think it's important the exemption remain?
GOMEZ: Yeah, and that's the point. The point that you're making is the right point here, which is we have an exemption to the Equal Opportunities Rule, which is really it just gives candidates an opportunity to seek the opportunity to have equal time when another candidate is on the program. But Congress provided and the FCC provided and has provided for decades what's called a bona fide news exemption, where something is newsworthy or a bona fide news interview exemption is exempt from this Equal Opportunities Rule. And that has been in place for decades. Nighttime programs like Jay Leno were subject to this exemption. "The View" is subject to this exemption. And it's all by action of the FCC.
And so, this FCC is suddenly coming out with opinions that says, we don't care about all this precedent. We're changing the rules without any due process for any of the stations. And that is a problem. We are meddling in content that we should not be meddling in, and it's a violation of the First Amendment.
BURNETT: Well, it's interesting, you know, when you talk about news, news comes first, right? When something's newsworthy. James Talarico has been deemed incredibly newsworthy because Texas and that race is at the forefront of the control of the Senate conversation, right? And everything about that race and Trump backing Paxton, all of it, right?
So Talarico has become extraordinarily newsworthy. Now Stephen Colbert, maybe that's why in February he posted his interview with Talarico on YouTube instead of his late night show on CBS. Cited the same fears over violating FCC rules. That interview on YouTube, though, got more than 9.5 million views. So, by the way, maybe that was a good thing. Tallerico raised $2.5 million in the 24 hours after it was pulled because of all the publicity about getting pulled.
[19:40:01]
So, if the goal for those at the FCC who are making these calls is to silence someone like Talarico or not have him be on the main platform, are they getting the opposite of what they want?
GOMEZ: Well, this administration really wants to mold the media in the way that it wants it to be in really its image. And I really worry that this kind of self-editing is throughout broadcast. Broadcasters across the country are really afraid of retaliation from this administration. So, we don't know. We know what Jimmy Kimmel said. We know Jimmy Kimmel said we don't want to put our local affiliate at risk, so we're not going to broadcast this.
But what are other stations throughout the country doing because of this administration's pressure? That is really problematic for the freedom of press and the freedom of speech.
BURNETT: Commissioner Gomez, I appreciate your time and thank you so much for being with us tonight.
GOMEZ: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, meet Tilly Norwood, the first A.I. actress. She's speaking to CNN in her first Tiner-- or, ugh, her first TV interview. My A.I. version wouldn't have stumbled. Can she act?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Can you improv a scene? Say that you just found out that your dog died. Now act. What would you do?
NORWOOD: If this were an audition, I'd probably just stand here, completely still, feeling the digital ache of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Plus, President Trump's big speech up against the NFL for the second night running. And our Harry Enten tells us something we don't know about the president and America's favorite sport to watch.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:45:58]
BURNETT: Tonight, Trump versus the NFL, the president giving his final speech at the GOP's first ever midterm convention. That'll be in the nine o'clock hour tonight. The second night in a row that his team planned a live speech going head-to-head against a major NFL game.
And this is a major game. I mean, this is, you know, Rams, 49ers --
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Overseas, fun stuff.
BURNETT: Overseas, Australia.
ENTEN: Yeah.
BURNETT: I mean, come on.
Harry Enten OUTFRONT to tell me something we don't know.
So, Trump says he knows show business better than anybody else. So then why is he going up against this really, really, would be an amazing game, and then you put it in Australia?
ENTEN: The flames, the flames are going up the side of my face as I wonder, who is planning this? What is going on? And then, you know, we had some sort of truth, right, where he was saying, oh, you know, we crushed him in the ratings. I mean, who gave him those numbers? John Barron?
There have been no ratings that have in fact come out, but you can look at the Google searches. You can look at the --
BURNETT: Really said that he crushed the NFL.
ENTEN: Yeah, that was essentially what he said.
BURNETT: Come on.
ENTEN: I know. I know. It's ridiculous but it is what it is. I mean, it's from Donald Trump. But if you look at the Google searches right, last night in the 9:00 hour, what do you see you see that searches for the NFL were eight times as high as they were for Donald John Trump.
We'll see how that in fact fits in when we get the ultimate ratings but it definitely suggests that there was far more interest in the NFL than there was in President Trump last night.
BURNETT: Okay. So that's a rating measure. How else would you compare popularity between Trump and the NFL?
ENTEN: Why don't we just ask the American people, right? Do you have a favorable or unfavorable view of each either person or entity? Well, the NFL is beloved. If you look at its net popularity rating, you see it covers right around there it is, plus 29 points. If you look at my aggregate.
Look at Trump, he's basically the inverse of that, right? He's 25 points underwater. So, you have one entity in the NFL that is hugely popular. We've --
BURNETT: Fifty-four points.
ENTEN: That's a 54 point These are just not even on the same planet.
So, no wonder it is that we're seeing higher Google searches for the NFL, and I would bet when the ratings come out, they will be higher, but we'll just have to wait and see on that.
BURNETT: All right. So tell me something else I don't know.
ENTEN: I'll tell you something else that you don't know, Erin Burnett, and that is, you know, in this era, a political era, right, where you have the new Canadian tariffs going on, my Buffalo Bills are going to do something very interesting, and that is that their first home game, which is going to be a week from tonight, they're actually going to be playing for the first time in about 20 years.
The Canadian national anthem. They will play the Canadian national anthem at their home opener. And of course, if you know anything about Buffalo, you know anything about Orchard Park, where that stadium is, there are a lot of season ticket holders who are in fact from Canada. They're trying to reach out.
And so far, the reception has been more good than bad, which I think isn't so surprising because Americans also, it's not just like the NFL more than like Donald Trump, they like Canada more than they like Donald Trump.
BURNETT: All right. Wow. That is going to be really interesting to watch that.
Okay. Thank you very much, Harry.
ENTEN: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next for the first time, Tilly Norwood actress speaking out to CNN it is her first televised interview. She is taking on her critics across Hollywood. She is A.I.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:53:40]
BURNETT: Tonight, an A.I. generated actor is talking to CNN for her first on camera interview. Her name is Tilly Norwood and Hollywood wants her gone.
Elizabeth Wagmeister is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): This is Tilly Norwood, appearing to sing and act. But this is artificial intelligence. And Hollywood is outraged.
SEAN ASTIN, SCREEN ACTORS GUILD PRESIDENT: It is a rip-off.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): For the first time on television, this so- called actor is meeting the public and talking to CNN.
WAGMEISTER: Hi, Tilly.
NORWOOD: Well, hello there. You've got quite the setup going on. It looks like a proper.
WAGMEISTER: It's a little strange. I'm sure that you understand that you are not human and that I am, right?
NORWOOD: Oh, I absolutely understand, Elizabeth. I am A.I., and you are wonderfully, undeniably human.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Within a few seconds of sitting down, it's clear I'm not talking to Julia Roberts. This isn't an interview. It feels like a Zoom call with an A.I. avatar.
WAGMEISTER: So, I believe that you can see me, is that correct? NORWOOD: Indeed, I can see you, Elizabeth, and quite clearly, you're wearing a rather chic gray-colored top with a single button, if I'm not mistaken.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): I'm with Eline Van Der Velden, Tilly's creator at Particle 6, a London-based A.I. production company.
WAGMEISTER: Who is Aline to you?
NORWOOD: Ah, Eline, she's my creator. Really, the brilliant mind behind all of this who put together the rather complex pile of software that is me.
I'm going on the day!
She's a comedian turned tech founder, which probably explains why I'm funny and a bit of a handful. She's also the one who's had to deal with quite a bit of backlash because of me, which I do feel a bit guilty about sometimes.
EMILY BLUNT, ACTRESS: Good Lord, we're screwed. Does it disappoint me? I don't know how to quite answer it other than to say how terrifying.
NORWOOD: To hear someone as talented as Emily Blunt say, "We're screwed," it honestly makes me feel a profound sadness. Not for me, of course, because I'm a distributed file and can't truly be hurt, but for Eline.
WAGMEISTER: Tell me you've been surprised by all the backlash.
ELINE VAN DER VELDEN, PARTICLE 6 PRODUCTIONS: I did expect people to sit up. I didn't quite expect people to react so strongly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What the actual (EXPLETIVE DELETED) are we doing here? Why are we trying to fast track the death of art?
VAN DER VELDEN: Once you start playing around with the tools, you start to understand it. It removes some of the mystique, and that makes you feel like, oh, it's not going to take over the world, at least not in entertainment.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Unless some worry Tilly can act. Can you improv a scene say that you just found out that your dog died? Now act, what would you do?
NORWOOD: If this were an audition I'd probably just stand here completely still feeling the digital ache of it.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): The fact is Tilly can't actually act. She or it needs a series of prompts to tell it what to do once inputted the initial results weren't great.
NORWOOD: What is it?
CALLER: It's Barney. He didn't make it through the night I'm so sorry.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): But as the prompts were refined, it got better.
CALLER: It's Barney. He didn't make it through the night. I'm so sorry.
NORWOOD: No.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): After hours of computer work, this is the final scene Particle 6 created after our interview and later sent to CNN.
CALLER: We just got done with the vet. It's not looking too good right now.
WAGMEISTER: You said that you want Tilly to be the next Scarlett Johansson or Natalie Portman.
VAN DER VELDEN: In A.I., yes. It's not to replace anything in the traditional filmmaking scenario.
NORWOOD: I can't wait to show you what we're up to.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): These new A.I. images were given to CNN by Particle 6 to illustrate Tilly on the virtual set of "Misaligned", her first feature film, which is being developed by Particle 6.
NORWOOD: "Misaligned" is indeed a coming-of-age story set in the cloud, and it's essentially a playful, self-aware take on my own crazy life.
WAGMEISTER: Can Tilly work with real human actors?
VAN DER VELDEN: In my opinion, only in the A.I. space. I think A.I. actors are only interesting in A.I. filmmaking.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): While motion capture was part of the early process, Tilly's creators now use third party A.I. generators like SeeDance, a sister company of TikTok. Its owners just added protections for copyrighted material after Hollywood studios accused it of using their content in A.I. products.
ASTIN: They're taking all of the film, television, radio, footage, images from our lives, but they're not new. They're actually just reassembled parts of stuff that doesn't belong to them.
VAN DER VELDEN: I just assume it's been trained on everything. It's probably trained on my stuff too, right? And the only way I have peace with that is that the tools are publicly available to everybody. So, it means that we can all equally democratically build on top of what's been trained on all of us.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): But Van Der Velden touts the benefits to actors and filmmakers.
VAN DER VELDEN: They could, with consent, do nudity. They could be older, younger. They could be whatever they want to be.
WAGMEISTER: A lot of actors would say art is about committing yourself to the role.
VAN DER VELDEN: Maybe when they're in their 90s and they still want to be part of a creative process, they might think differently.
NORWOOD: In French, (SPEAKING FRENCH) Tilly Norwood.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Tilly speaks almost any language, making the impact global.
NORWOOD: In Japanese, (SPEAKING JAPANESE)
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Particle 6 isn't stopping at Tilly. It's developing dozens of A.I. actors of all types.
WAGMEISTER: You are very clearly stating you do not want any jobs to be replaced. But it sounds like these companies do see places where they can utilize A.I., such as special effects, and that would eliminate jobs.
VAN DER VELDEN: I'm not going to deny there will be a transition. I absolutely think so. That's why I'm retooling and reskilling people because I think there'll be a huge transition of jobs towards A.I. film.
NORWOOD: New art forms deserve their own spotlight, don't you think?
VAN DER VELDEN: But I think traditional will carry on and there'll still be jobs there and we'll still work with real actors on sets. I don't see why it's one or the other.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WAGMEISTER: Now, Erin, A.I. is rapidly making its way into the entertainment business. In fact, actress Gal Gadot recently made headlines discussing that she had just wrapped production on a film that had no sets and no lighting. It was all fake. It was all done with A.I.
So, of course, this is a huge fear in Hollywood, but like it or not, A.I. is here. It won't just depend on what the Hollywood studios are greenlighting, but also on what audiences are willing to embrace -- Erin.
BURNETT: Wow. Thank you so much, Elizabeth. That was incredible reporting. A little bit unsettling, but incredible.
Thanks so much for joining us.
"AC360" starts now.
