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Erin Burnett Outfront

Trump In Nebraska Where GOP Senate Seat Is In Danger; Trump: U.S. Will Help Russia Combat Potential Spread Of Plague; "Shame": Protests Erupt At Cornell Over Handling Of Alleged Rape Case. Aired 7- 8p ET

Aired October 05, 2026 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:17]

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:

Trump defending the home turf in Nebraska this hour, a state he won by 20 points. V.P. Vance deployed to Alaska as a new poll shows more Americans identify as Democrats now than any time since 2009.

Plus, the president weighing in on Russia's potential case of pneumonic plague, calling it a big problem. Top infectious disease doctor tells us why he's very concerned tonight.

And protests growing this hour on the campus of Cornell University, as CNN obtains new audio of Jane Doe and a fraternity brother after the alleged rapes.

Let's go OUTFRONT.

(MUSIC)

BURNETT: And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett on this Monday.

And OUTFRONT tonight, Republicans afraid. President Trump is about to take the stage in Nebraska, a deep red state, a state that he won by 20 points just two years ago. Yet he is spending precious time 29 days before the election in that very state tonight, as Republican Senator Pete Ricketts faces a tight race against independent Dan Osborn, who'll be joining us in just a moment.

Now, a Republican has not lost a Senate race in Nebraska in 20 years, two decades. There is, though, growing fear in the GOP tonight about the race, and it's not just offending what Trump thought was safe turf tonight.

Vice President Vance is about to touch down in Alaska, a state that is not elected a Democratic senator in over a decade as well, but Alaska also competitive tonight.

And there's been just a whole bunch of new numbers that have stoked these fears among the GOP. There's a new set of Senate polls from "The New York Times" and Siena showing Democrats leading in two red states, both Alaska and Texas, and a dead heat in three others, Ohio, Kansas and Iowa.

And it is not a friendly map for Democrats coming into this, OK? This election year with the Senate seats that actually are up, Democrats have to flip for Republican held seats to win control of the Senate, and that is if they keep all of their own existing seats. So, it was a tough battle, but they are feeling more confident as another new poll out today. This one from Gallup shows more Americans now identify as Democrats than at any point since 2009, and you can see that's a big increase from 39 to 50 percent.

And multiple polls in recent weeks show maybe some of the internals on that showing Latino voters who are a crucial part of Trump's winning coalition in the last presidential election are now unhappy with him. A new poll by NBC News shows 27 percent of Latino voters approve of Trump. It's even lower than the national average.

And you've got to compare it to the way that Trump won the group in 2024. He won 46 percent of Latino voters. Trump today lashing out and blaming the messenger when asked about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Your approval ratings with Latino voters has dropped down to 27 percent. What's your message to them?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I called you fake news. You're CNN. You're fake news.

HOLMES: What's your message to the Latino voters?

TRUMP: My phone numbers are great.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: That, of course, was our Kristen Holmes doing her job.

Trump also complaining about coverage of his Ohio rally on Saturday. Now he posted multiple times about how it was full and he attacked Fox News for not covering the rally, writing, quote, "These rallies are the hottest things out there. Tremendous love in these sold-out arenas and nothing shows up on Fox."

And while polls show Trump's approval rating on the economy is a specific major issue here, hurting him and the GOP, top White House economic adviser Kevin Hassett is blaming the economy on the polls, too.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN HASSETT, DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: Ahead of an election cycle, the fact that there's, you know, possibly partisan pollsters telling us that the people are really, really depressed, it's a classic Democrat move and I just don't buy it. President Trump hasn't failed to deliver at all. The economy is booming.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Of course, Mr. Hassett could just go to a gas station or a grocery store and have a casual conversation with a person to understand people's frustration.

And there are polls about this, too. I mean, again, he could just talk to people. He could look at polls. There's a CBS poll that's just out showing 70 percent of voters say Trump's policies were pushing prices up. But perhaps if they're not going to go to the grocery store or the gas station, Kevin Hassett or the president or others could listen to leaders in their own party.

Here's one of them, Republican Senator John Kennedy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): I think we have to tell the American people the truth. We -- telling them not to believe their own lying checkbooks is not going to work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Telling them not to believe their own lying checkbooks is not going to work.

Let's go to Jeff Zeleny. He's OUTFRONT because he's at Trump's rally in Nebraska.

And Jeff, just going through, as we were going through, a state that really just shouldn't be a state where the president of the United States has to show up in a Senate race.

[19:05:05]

Just shouldn't be, but he's there because he needs to be.

What are you learning about why Trump really is in Nebraska tonight?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, it's quite simple. He needs to ask his supporters for help. He needs to convince Republicans that they need to come to his party's aid one more time. There is no question here that the president can be sent some places. He's not welcome other places.

This midterm election campaign is playing out in the final month in Trump country right here in Nebraska. There is deep concern about this Senate race, yes, but also neighboring states look to Iowa to the east, look to Kansas to the South Texas as well.

So, the White House travel itinerary really tells the story. It's that simple. The president believes that he can try and rally some of these Republican supporters back to his side.

Erin, we will see. Talking to many supporters here -- yes, you can see people still like President Trump. One man said, I want to see him one last time. That's why he drove a few 100 miles here. But there's also deep discontent, largely about the Iran war and its

fallout. Look at the diesel prices. I'm told that the president is likely to have some type of an announcement tonight trying to at least study or bring down the price of diesel, we will see how serious that is. This rescue plan that's been going state to state been sort of dribbling things out here and there. We'll see if it has much of an impact.

But the bottom line here, Erin, Republicans have no margin for error in their fight to keep the control of the Senate. So that is why they are -- are here.

Erin, I talked to one Republican member of Congress from one of these red states. He called this a five-alarm fire and he said, look, we welcome the president, but we're not certain the president actually knows what people's feelings are out here outside of these Trump rallies -- Erin.

BURNETT: Yeah, thank you very much.

And of course, you know, he's hearing what say Kevin Hassett is telling him. You have to realize that's a fair question. What is he hearing about the reality?

OUTFRONT now, Nebraska's independent candidate for Senate, Dan Osborn.

And I appreciate your time, Dan.

So, Trump today said that, and I quote him, numbers go way up. And he was talking about for the Republican candidates that he actually shows up to campaign for. Your history here, of course, is that you ran for Senate in 2024. You lost by seven points. Trump, by the way, won by more than 20 points, right?

So, he did -- he did way better than your rival here, but you still lost by seven points. So that's the question. When Jeff Zeleny says Trump is showing up to rally the base to get his base out, are you concerned that that will work, that he could rally his base and rally for turnout?

DAN OSBORN (I), U.S. SENATE CANDIDATE IN NEBRASKA: No, not at all. Anybody who's putting gas in their F-150 right now or if you're putting diesel in your John Deere because your crops are going to harvest, they're not fooled anymore. If you're buying groceries -- again, you're not getting fooled. They have made life exponentially harder through bad policy and you know this should be a Ricketts apology tour is what this should be, you know, for hurting American families, Nebraska families, who are trying to tread water right now to keep their heads above water.

BURNETT: So you know, Jeff was just reporting and we don't know exactly what it is, so I'm not being coy here, but the Trump's going to announce something about diesel prices because he realizes what an issue it is in Nebraska. And who knows what it's going to be, but it's going to be something to try to have people feel that he is doing something about it. And hey, trust me. And I'm going to deal with this problem.

Are there people who are receptive to those sorts of promises at this time?

OSBORN: You know, you see there. There is definitely some people at the rally, but ultimately, it's a day late and a dollar short. I heard a rumor that he was going to say that he was going to release the full Epstein files. That's -- that's what I heard.

BURNETT: That I guess we know -- I would certainly be shocked.

OK, now the Ricketts campaign which you mentioned, they're handing out these signs at tonight's rally and I know you know about this so we got a picture of him because Jeff took a picture there. They say, quote, "I'm Billy Bob", and then there's signs saying "I'm Mary Jane".

So, we're showing them there, and of course, you know what this is about for those who don't, the reason is that there's leaked recording of you which was obtained by the "Omaha World Herald" a few weeks ago. I'll play it here, Dan.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

OSBORN: Billy Bob in (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Red Cloud, Nebraska, who lives next door to the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Trump store as you pull into town, and is waving the Trump flag, he's just -- all he knows is he's, like, on the winning team. It's really that simple. It is -- and Trump -- and that is why he's been so effective.

He's been so effective at taking Billy Bob and his wife, Mary Jane, or Mary Jo, telling them, look, we're winning.

[19:10:04]

You're on the winning team. And that's all they care about because their lives probably suck.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: And then you apologize. You said you regret using those words. But the sentiment, right? I mean, do you stand by the sentiment, the point that you were making there?

OSBORN: Now, I think you know you know I mentioned people's lives suck. What I should have used the right words is it's exponentially harder and it certainly is for me too. And look that that comes from a place of passion because I talked to -- I've done over 300 public town halls. I go out and talk to folks and there's a lot of people who struggle with health care who are struggling with the daily cost of living.

And you know that's where I'm passionate about and I think our elected officials should be waking up every day. How can we uplift people's lives? Not who can write me the biggest check today. Our politics are broken. Washington, D.C. is broken. The two-part -- we're stuck in a two-party doom loop where neither side wants either side to have a win. We don't have a farm bill still.

And yeah, it comes from a place of frustration, but I'm passionate about helping people.

BURNETT: So, you know, when you speak about the two parties, I was talking about how there's more people identifying as Democrat than anytime since 2009, and yet you still have the majority or the largest group of people, sorry, not the majority, the largest group of people who would say they are independents. You're running as an independent.

But as I pointed out, you know, two years ago, you did a lot better than a Democrat maybe would have done. I don't know, but you obviously did much better than you would have thought given how Trump won the state. But why do you think this time is different that you can actually get it over the finish line to a win?

OSBORN: Yeah, I think I think this time is different because my opponents wildly different, right? He's the son of a billionaire. He's never had to work a day in his life.

He pardons, you know, convicted violent rapists that no longer now have -- they can -- they can own a firearm and they're not on the sex offender list. And you know, I suppose two peas in a pod right there.

So it's frustrating to see how him as governor and now him as senator have hurt Nebraska and Nebraskans in it. And that's the big difference here in this race.

BURNETT: All right. Well, Dan, I appreciate your time and thank you for joining us tonight. I appreciate it.

Dan Osborn, as I said, the independent candidate in Nebraska that Trump is on the ground campaigning against.

I want to go OUTFRONT now to a Republican who's speaking up against his own party, Bill Graves. So, he's the former Republican governor of Kansas. He's now backing the Democrat trying to unseat Republican Senator Roger Marshall there.

And Governor Graves, I appreciate your time. I know you had a chance there to hear Mr. Osborn speaking as the independent candidate in Nebraska. So, Trump is on the ground there where he shouldn't have to be. He won it by 20 points two years ago, but he needs to be there.

Vance is in Alaska. That's a long way. It's a lot of wear and tear to go to a place that ordinarily he would have no business needing to go.

But "The New York Times" polls show Democrats leading in Alaska and Texas, by the way, right now. How serious are these warning signs?

And I guess, Governor, I'll put it to you this way. Do you believe the polls right now?

BILL GRAVES (R), FORMER GOVERNOR OF NEBRASKA: Erin, I think the warning signs are serious or significant. And what I happen to like about this moment is I think Trump trying to be the messenger for this party is it plays to people like Dan Osborn and Adam Hamilton in Kansas is benefit every time he goes out. As you know, because you've reported on it for several years, every time he goes out on this stump, Lord only knows what he's going to say.

So, I think the Republicans are in serious trouble. Obviously, the policies of this president supported by these Republican incumbents have hurt people. The Republicans have had allowed his bullying to. They've walked away from their responsibilities as in the legislative branch, and I think there's some pretty good candidates that have been recruited and are running great campaigns against them. So I don't expect November to be a good night for Republicans and certainly not for this president.

BURNETT: So, you know, to the point about Trump's role, there's leaked audio of Ken Paxton, who, of course, is the Republican Senate candidate in Texas. And he seems to say in it that Trump is just playing a gigantic role in his race, and that so much so that he doesn't have control over his own campaign. Let me play it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEN PAXTON (R), TEXAS SENATE CANDIDATE: I've never been raised where I felt less control over the campaign and like what issues are going to matter because it's all coming, you know, from D.C. and I don't control the message or what we're doing or I can't -- I have no -- I don't have the ability to change anything. So I have to live with whatever I've got.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[19:15:02]

BURNETT: What's your takeaway when you hear that? I mean, that's a candidate, but by the way, they've put in, if I'm remembering correctly, over $130 million, eight to one over the guy they're running against who's Mr. Talarico.

GRAVES: Well, I think he's absolutely correct. Again, this is -- everything that's going on right now in the Republican Party is all about Donald Trump. I mean, I think even holding rallies in places like Grand Island, Nebraska is probably more about President Trump wanting to be loved and, you know, the adulation of his supporters.

But I don't think it's doing much to change the dynamic of who's going to show up and vote on Election Day.

BURNETT: You know, I'm interested, okay, you know those ads, Governor, that have been rolling out, 13 of them, where Trump is front and center, and some of them are just complete copies of his actual campaign ads. He actually said a few minutes ago that he's going to pay for them, which is interesting, because it's basically an admission that you can't use taxpayer dollars, and it's totally out of line, which lawyers have said that it is.

But, you know, I'm interested because J.D. Vance is still defending him. So, I -- which you know Trump Trump's admitting he's going to probably pay for them, which is admitting basically they're wrong. But Vance is toeing the party line, even though it was obvious to many in the Republican Party that these ads weren't OK. Here's what Vance said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you look at the message of those advertisements, they're not partisan. They're not. You know, it's not like we're advocating for particular candidate. We're trying to tell a story. I think about how great the United States of America is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Not advocating for a particular candidate. I mean, one of them talks about God, how God chose Trump. They all are, some of them, as I said, recycled from last campaign. What do you make of J.D. Vance's defense?

Well, you know, Erin, I think that the president and the president's administration have perpetuated one of the great cons in the history of our country in how they have gone about you know, denigrating our election system and sending out checks to people just prior to the election, running these kinds of ads that you're referring to. I think you know the only the only person in America that I know that's really tried to rig an election is the President of the United States, Donald Trump.

And I think a lot of people fully understand that fully appreciate what's going on, and I don't think a lot of them are happy about it. And I think they'll show up and again try to do something about it on Election Day.

BURNETT: Well, Governor Graves, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much,

Governor Graves, I said, former Republican governor of Kansas.

GRAVES: Thank you, Erin.

BURNETT: And next, the U.S. monitoring the situation in Russia after a young lab worker dies while studying pneumonic plague. Reports of up to 200 people being monitored. So how dangerous is this?

And Putin critic Gary Kasparov is OUTFRONT. He says he's just been warned by security services in the United States and Lithuania that his life is in danger. What he's learning about the threat tonight.

And protests erupting at Cornell University after the alleged gang rape at a frat house.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:22:33]

BURNETT: Breaking news, President Trump making his first comments about Russia's potential pneumonic plague case, calling it a, quote, "big problem," end quote. As official -- unofficial reports, I'm sorry, reveal that close to 200 people are now under observation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I hate to see them having it. It's a rough disease. You know, that's a disease we used to be able to control, but somehow those microbes have gotten stronger and spotted like an army.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: The White House says they're monitoring the situation in Russia and beyond after the death of a researcher who worked at a Russian lab dedicated to studying the plague and other infectious diseases. The researcher died days after being diagnosed with a pneumonia of a, quote, "unknown origin", according to a Russian health agency.

OUTFRONT now, Dr. Ashish Jha, infectious disease and biosecurity expert.

And Dr. Jha, you've looked into this extensively. Obviously, if they know where she works, but they're saying the pneumonia is an unknown origin, that already raises some questions about what they're disclosing and not disclosing. What is the most concerning thing about all of this to you?

DR. ASHISH JHA, PHYSICIAN, SCIENTIST, AND BIOSECURITY EXPERT: Yeah, so -- first of all, Erin, thanks for having me back.

Look, the early reporting from the local newspapers is that this was a file that broke pneumonic plague and the young person died. There are a lot of red flags here. One is she should have probably been vaccinated against it and should have started antibiotics right away. And there's no evidence that that happened or that that it responded.

Second, 200 people under quarantine. That is not what you would expect from a simple lab accident.

Last point that I would make this really important here is Russia has a very extensive biological weapons program, and we don't know if this lab was involved in that program, but it is concerning given the lack of information coming from the Russian authorities.

BURNETT: And it is a real lack and you've also noted and this is one of the things that stood out from this from the second that it sort of broke out internationally in terms of news. was that the reports of the FSB, which of course is Russia's internal security and counterintelligence agency, has been involved in the response. There was that. There was the fact that several hospitals have been shut down or locked down, on top of all of this.

I mean, what do you read into that again to the point of your saying, well, if it was run-of-the-mill pneumonic plague as she would have been vaccinated, taking antibiotics and been fine. But yet, we're seeing all of these other pieces around this. What do you make of all of that? And do you trust any of the

information that we're getting?

JHA: Yeah, so here's what we know. The lab that she was working in is a lab that's supposed to be a civilian lab, but it has a long history of having military biological weapons research.

[19:25:20]

The second thing we know is that Russia has been investing heavily in expanding its biological weapons program. Take those two facts, take the facts that you just mentioned It is hard not to be concerned that there is something more going on. Is there something more going on? I don't know.

But I've talked to friends in the administration. I've actually had three conversations last 24 hours. They're concerned. They don't feel like they're getting a straight answer from Russia. And so, until we get more information, I think we have to assume that there is something more going on than what we're seeing.

BURNETT: And, you know, to that effect, obviously, people have a lot of questions about how this spreads. Now, again, you're talking about run of the mill pneumonic plague or are you talking about something perhaps different and we don't -- we don't understand the facts yet?

To that question, though, you know, we all remember back in COVID. So, if you look at a map of the flights that left the airport in or cooks, which is where this incident occurred, you can see that -- you know, a lot of people have left, and this is -- these are just the flights from around the time that researcher died.

Is there any reason to be concerned about anything like this right that the lockdown in the immediate area but nothing beyond that?

JHA: Yeah, so here's how I would think about it. If this is a run of the mill pneumonic play, and I can't even believe I'm saying run of the mill pneumonic play, right, which is a pretty serious disease, but pneumonic play doesn't spread all that efficiently. So, if it is a normal run of the mill, this is not going to end up being a big deal. Maybe a few more people will get sick. Obviously terrible that this young woman died, but it will not become a global outbreak.

If there is something more going on here, then obviously it changes the scope of this, and we have to be much more concerned. This is why we need a lot more information. We need better monitoring, we need better disease surveillance, and we need more transparency from the Russian government.

BURNETT: Yeah, and obviously, they're not -- they're not providing any of that. Some of the things they're doing would indicate there's nothing to worry about, but the things they're not being transparent about would indicate there is something to be worried about. So, it's very hard to tell.

But in terms of the spread, Dr. Jha, before you go, this is the sort of thing that you're saying is actually if it is a -- again, run of the mill pneumonic plague would be quite difficult to transmit.

JHA: Yeah, this is not like COVID. This is certainly not like measles. It doesn't spread that efficiently, so I am hoping it is a run of the mill pneumonic plague. I'm hoping it just sort of peters away.

But here's a bigger point, Erin, that I think is worth understanding. We are seeing across the world more and more labs working on very, very dangerous pathogens and I am increasingly worried we're going to see more and more outbreaks like this, and one of those will end up on our shores. So we have to get ready and be much better prepared than we are right now.

BURNETT: Yeah, then you add AI and on top of that and another obviously big, big part of it.

Thank you so much. Dr. Jha. I appreciate talking to you. Thank you.

And we do have more breaking news tonight, which is that Gary Kasparov, the chairman of the Renewed Democracy Initiative and a Putin critic, a world class chess champion as well, revealing that he was, quote, very likely the target of an alleged Russian assassination attempt. So, he wrote on his Substack page the next move that he and his longtime associate were, and I'm going to read directly from it, warned by security services in Lithuania and the United States that our lives were in danger and that we should take precautions.

Garry Kasparov is OUTFRONT with me now here.

So, this is very unsettling.

GARRY KASPAROV, PUBLISHER, THE NEXT MOVE ON SUBSTACK: Very.

BURNETT: I mean, it's an understatement, an understatement. Can you just explain how and when you first learned that you were likely the target of a Russian murder plot?

KASPAROV: I was never told explicitly that I was a target, but I was invited to meet an FBI agent a few days before they released the indictment. who bluntly told me that you know -- about the indictment and also that I would have to be very cautious, again without naming me specifically, because if you saw the indictment it has victim one victim two.

BURNETT: Right, right.

KASPAROV: So, but the way, you know, he presented it so left no doubts that I'm one of them.

One of these two, and also the indictment talks about -- talked about Lithuania, where and it is the capital initiative, Vilnius, where my longtime associate -- someone has been working with me for more than 20 years and also moved into exile and was a co-founder of Free Russia Forum there. He was directly warned. I mean, it's -- it's -- that was no -- with no maybe by Lithuanian intelligence service that his life is in danger. He's a target. BURNETT: So they -- they were very blunt. Now you're talking about the

Justice Department and what was just unsealed that complaint. OK, that indictment. It did talk about victims in the United States.

Now I understand that there's always been a risk that Russian security forces could operate and plots on U.S. soil, but it has always been something that has seen less likely in the United States than anywhere else, and it went on in the Justice Department indictment to talk about Russian intelligence services saying that they are operating in the U.S. as part of a global assassination network that reached into the United States attempting to recruit U.S. citizens and foreigners to carry out killings at the behest of the Kremlin.

So, this is where you're talking about one and two, and it appears clear to you that you're one of those two. Again, you've been a target of anger from Putin for a long time. But do he see this in black and white, an assassination ring recruiting Americans to kill people on U.S. soil on behalf of the Kremlin? What do you think?

KASPAROV: That's -- I'm trying to adjust myself. So, it's a -- no, we used to be treated poorly by Russian authorities. I left Russia in 2013, facing an imminent arrest for my political activities. So, my name has been erased from most of the sports stories, so as though I was probably one of the most decorated athletes in Soviet Russian history.

And I, alongside many other Putin critics, prominent critics, we are all indicted. I'm indicted on terrorism and also on state treason. So that's -- but that's one side of the story.

So, obviously, I have to be very cautious visiting countries, you know, because while Interpol rejects Russian red notices, but some of the countries could honor their bilateral treaties. But that's the next level.

And we also heard some noises in Europe. So, this is when I was in Europe this summer, so I heard from Croatian intelligence about potential threats. So, it's -- the atmosphere is getting thicker.

And I still thought, you know, well, an impression that in America it would not happen. But it seems to me that with Trump in the Oval Office and with many Trump's cronies henchmen at the heads of the security agencies, Putin feels immune from any U.S. response.

BURNETT: I want to ask you also about what Dr. Jha was just talking about because you know about this in a more tangible way. You know, he was talking obviously about this pneumonic plague. And I know obviously you don't know the details of what's really going on the ground there. The whole point is nobody does.

But what he was talking about, about the FSB being involved and hospitals potentially being locked down and a civilian lab that had also been known to do plenty of military and the expansion of the bioweapons program in Russia. What do you think is going on?

KASPAROV: What we know is that Russia is now on war footing. The country is just like a giant war camp. War became oxygen for Putin's regime. So that's why it's very likely this lab has been involved in developing some bioweapons.

Yeah, likely. But one thing I can tell you for sure. So, whatever they said, they liked. So, when you're listening to the responses of Russian authorities, so here you have to, when you talk to people in this country and in Europe, so you should apply the presumption of innocence.

In Russia, it's the opposite, presumption of guilt. If Putin said something he lied, you should assume so. So that's why I wouldn't trust a word what they said, and that makes it even more worrisome.

BURNETT: All right. Garry Kasparov, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much for being here.

And next, secret audio recordings between Jane Doe and a Cornell fraternity member, audio recorded weeks after the alleged gang rape.

Plus, KFILE uncovering past comments by James Talarico, the Texas Democrat locked in a tight race against Ken Paxton, what he said about limiting police power and the, quote/unquote, "defund the police movement".

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:38:17]

BURNETT: Breaking news angry protesters tonight on the campus of Cornell University as we hear brand new audio of Jane Doe and the fraternity brother who she says invited her to the party where she was allegedly drugged and gang raped in October 2024.

Jason Carroll is OUTFRONT

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Protests across Cornell's campus today over how the university handled the investigation of an alleged rape case at the Chi Phi fraternity house two years ago.

This as secret audio recordings of a phone call between Jane Doe, the woman who said she was raped, and a fraternity member she went to see the night of the alleged attack were obtained by ABC News.

FRATERNITY BROTHER: You want me to give my recollection of the entire night?

CARROLL (voice-over): According to ABC, the call was recorded by Jane Doe three weeks after the alleged where she told the fraternity member she spent time in the emergency room and in therapy because "there's so much damage on my body and my brain. If I just know what happened, then I can feel a little bit better and move on and maybe be able to stay at this school." In the recorded call, she also said, "What y'all did would be classified as gang rape. And you already knew when I came in, I was 10 shots deep."

The fraternity member recounted it differently.

FRATERNIY BROTHER: You did tell me you were sober, by the way. You did, you said you hadn't been anywhere.

CARROLL (voice-over): ABC reported that Jane Doe pushed back saying, "That is not true. I never would have said that," and she wanted to know how they ended up in a threesome with another fraternity member.

FRATERNITY BROTHER: So, you come in, say hi, we start dancing for like maybe three to five minutes and then I pop the question. You say yes, then I remember like we didn't know who else to bring, so I go up to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) who was on the dance floor, too.

[19:40:03]

And I pop the question and he's like, "yo". And then we go upstairs.

CARROLL (voice-over): Jane Doe continued to ask how so many people ended up in the room.

FRATERNITY BROTHER: I have racked my brain for this mystery. You know, it's possible that both of us like remember this and it's not true.

CARROLL (voice-over): According to ABC, again, Jane Doe pushed back saying, "No, no, because I remember looking up and being like that is too many people."

ABC News says that in that same call, the fraternity member never mentions to Jane Doe the Snapchat message inviting others to join in that night.

Jane Doe's attorney told CNN he's thankful information's being leaked, though he's concerned evidence of cell phone pics may have been lost.

THOMAS GIUFFRA, ATTORNEY FOR JANE DOE: I think they're in the bottom of Lake Cuyahoga because once they knew there was a problem, they cleared everything out and they got rid of it. And the fact is that the investigators let that happen.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL: Erin, also tonight, a lawyer for one of the accused is calling for the special prosecutor now charged with investigating the case to recuse herself. Before she was appointed by the governor, Attorney General Letitia James posted a Facebook message about Jane Doe saying in part, "I hold you in my heart and in my prayers. We stand with you."

The attorney saying his concern is that that statement is making an assumption that the alleged conduct occurred without first determining what the evidence establishes. The attorney general told CNN her office enforces state laws to protect all New Yorkers and that she is committed to leading a, quote, "comprehensive investigation guided by the facts" -- Erin.

BURNETT: All right. We'll see of course where this this leads, now talking about criminal. Thank you very much, Jason.

And next, new KFILE reporting on one of the nation's most important Senate races. Why Texas Democrat James Talarico are what he said in 2020 about the police.

And our Will Ripley speaks with one of the highest profile defectors from North Korea. Why he believes North Korean soldiers are motivated to kill themselves to avoid being captured in the Ukraine War.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:46:15]

BURNETT: Tonight, new KFILE reporting on one of the most closely watched Senate races in the country. Democrat James Talarico is locked in a tight race in Texas with Republican Attorney General Ken Paxton. Several polls showing a dead heat.

Now, our KFILE has uncovered a 2020 discussion Talarico have the progressive group that at the time was explicitly calling for police departments to be defunded.

In that conversation, Talarico said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES TALARICO (D), TEXAS STATE HOUSE: As an educator always rich to me that defund the police is considered off limits in our political debate when defunding health services, defunding public education has been the stated policy of our state government for decades now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Talarico also acknowledged the political problem with the slogan in his own swing district, but he told the activists that voters could be more receptive to some of the policy ideas they were discussing when those ideas were described in concrete terms without using the politically thorny phrase. Talarico's campaign now says it is a flat out lie that he ever supported defunding the police.

And CNN's Andrew Kaczynski found that video and has been looking at Talarico's broader record on policing from 2020 on.

So, Andrew, obviously an important time frame for the phrase --

ANDREW KACZYNSKI, CNN KFILE SENIOR EDITOR: Yeah.

BURNETT: -- and the movement in this country.

So, what did you find? KACZYNSKI: Well, Erin, Talarico had a very progressive record on policing. and criminal justice reform in 2020. I want to share people a little bit of what we found. This went beyond that conversation you just played in the comments, which were mostly made in the aftermath of the death of George Floyd. He called for limiting police power. He questioned why armed officers were being sent to every emergency. And he argued for shifting some public safety responsibilities toward mental health professionals and community-based alternatives.

For instance, one thing we found was an interview with a local publication on the Internet archive Wayback Machine, where the publication said he was directly asked about defunding the police. And Talarico said this, he said, quote, "Our system of policing is deeply broken. We must replace it with something new and better."

He then laid out what he thought a different approach could look like. He said, what if we stop bringing a gun to every emergency? What if we called a three-digit number to summon highly trained crisis interventionist to address a problem in our neighborhood? What if we made rehabilitation, reconciliation, restoration or operating principles? We need to invest in community-based solutions that cure the societal ills that we ask police to treat. poverty, homelessness, substance abuse, mental disorders. We must empower our communities, not police them. Only then will we have true public safety.

And, Erin, those weren't the only comments that Talarico was making about policing at that time. In a Facebook post in 2020, he said that he and other lawmakers would, quote, continue to push anti-racist legislation that limits police power while also calling for greater investments in health care, education and economic opportunity in communities of color.

BURNETT: OK, so obviously quite a bit of discussion there as you're talking about. You also note that Talarico's campaign at the time gave money to a group, Andrew, that was pushing to defund the police specifically in Austin, in Texas?

KACZYNSKI: Yes, that's right. In June 2020, Talarico's campaign donated $2,500 to the Austin Justice Coalition in the aftermath of the death of George Floyd at the time. That group was advocating cuts to Austin's police budget and redirecting money towards social services, and they were explicitly calling at that time to defund Austin's police department.

The contribution -- this later became an issue in Talarico's reelection campaign after Republican -- Republicans accused him of helping to defund the police. Now Talarico dismissed this attack as, quote, "fearmongering" and defended the Austin Justice Coalition donation saying it was, quote, "a well-respected civil rights organization in our community that champions educational equity economic opportunity and police reform".

[19:50:06]

And these comments weren't limited to 2020. A year later, Talarico campaigned against Austin's Proposition A, a ballot measure that would have required the city to maintain at least two police officers for every thousand residents and hire hundreds of additional officers. Talarico urged voters to reject it, arguing that, quote, "true" public safety required investment in communities. Austin voters ultimately rejected the measure.

And then in 2022, he made an even more explicit argument about where public money should go, saying in one, quote, "If we took just half of what we spent on war prisons and policing and spent it on education, health care and jobs, we could make prisons obsolete."

BURNETT: So, what did the Talarico campaign say about all this? Because I know obviously you went to them for comment.

KACZYNSKI: So, we reached out to them. They gave us a statement. In a statement to CNN, Talarico's campaign spokesperson JT Ennis reiterated his opposition to defunding the police, saying, "James did not call for and does not support defunding the police. He strongly supports Texas law enforcement and first responders. That's why James has voted to send billions of dollars to local law enforcement in addition to advocating for better funded mental resources so that cops don't have to respond to mental health emergencies that could be better -- could be handled by a counselor."

And, Erin, the campaign points to his votes for those state appropriations bills that did send billions to local law enforcement on the campaign says many of these comments were him arguing for better funded mental health resources again so that cops wouldn't have to handle these situations.

BURNETT: All right. Obviously, all fascinating and this race just such a focus across the country.

Thank you very much, KFILE.

And next, new intelligence from South Korea about the North Korean soldiers killing themselves in the Ukraine war to avoid capture. One soldier reportedly shouting "General Kim Jong Un" before pulling a grenade.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:56:38]

BURNETT: Tonight, chilling new details about the lengths North Korean soldiers are going and fighting Putin's war against Ukraine. Soldiers are instructed to kill themselves instead of being captured. And in return, grieving families get new apartments on a special street in the country's capital, and their kids get into elite schools.

Will Ripley is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): South Korean intelligence says North Korean troops have explicit orders to kill themselves to avoid capture. They say at least one soldier even shouted "General Kim Jong Un" before pulling a grenade.

THAE YONG HO, FORMER SENIOR NORTH KOREAN DIPLOMAT: All the people in North Korea are brainwashed.

RIPLEY (voice-over): One of Pyongyang's highest profile defectors says when North Korean soldiers die fighting for Russia, their leader praises them as heroes. Doors open for the soldier's grieving families. Brand new apartments on a special street in Pyongyang. Their children promised places in elite revolutionary schools, a path to privileged jobs.

THAE: The social status of your family would be upgraded to a kind of elite or ruling class. Your house, your parents would be moved from countryside, a very remote area, to the capital of North Korea, Pyongyang.

RIPLEY (voice-over): But North Korea's former deputy U.K. Ambassador Thae Yong Ho says, if a soldier is captured alive, like these two carried out of Russia's Kursk region last year, the consequences can be reversed.

THAE: There would be a very heavy punishment. Their social status would be downgraded.

RIPLEY (voice-over): Of the thousands of North Koreans sent to fight for Russia, only two are known to have been captured alive. In Ukrainian captivity with their identities concealed, they told CNN affiliate NBC, "I don't know if my mom is alive. I worry she could be in trouble because of me. If I had a hand grenade, I could have killed myself and not become a POW."

Seoul's National Intelligence Service says they decided to go to South Korea, arriving by their own free will earlier this month.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: These guys are not easy to capture alive.

RIPLEY (voice-over): South Korea was shocked when Ukraine's president revealed the transfer at the U.N. Seoul wanted to keep it secret, in part to protect the soldiers and their families. But Ukraine says there was no confidentiality agreement.

THAE: I am protected by South Korean border guards 24 hours.

RIPLEY (voice-over): Thae defected with his wife and two sons. I met the brother and sister he left behind in Pyongyang in what they called a voluntary interview. They disowned him.

RIPLEY: In South Korea, Thae said that he did this to break the slavery chain.

"One hundred percent evil propaganda," his sister told me.

Thae feared his family was being forced to speak against him.

His brother said, "If I don't wash this sin away by myself, my sons and future generations will have to work harder to pay for this."

Now, Thae says Ukraine should target North Korean troops with leaflets and loudspeakers telling them that they don't have to die.

THAE: They are very young in early 20s. They have a very bright future.

RIPLEY (voice-over): But Ukraine says thousands more may soon be to battle in the name of their leader.

Will Ripley, CNN, Taipei.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT: Incredible reporting.

And thanks so much to all of you for joining us.

"AC360" begins now.