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Campbell Brown
Reverend Wright Speaks Out; Interview With Chief Obama Campaign Strategist David Axelrod
Aired April 28, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: And we have some breaking news to tell you about tonight: a serious outbreak of severe storms and tornadoes in Virginia.
What we know right now, at least 200 people are hurt. Most of the injuries are in Suffolk. And that's in the southeast corner of the state. At least one tornado apparently hit the town, destroying homes and businesses, also damaging a hospital. At least one other tornado hit earlier in the day. We are going to have a little bit more. And we will be checking back and bringing you more information as we do learn it.
Now we do want to turn to tonight's other big story. And that is the return of Reverend Jeremiah Wright and its potential for damaging Barack Obama's campaign.
We haven't heard much from Wright since the clips of his sermons first made news. But, over the past few days, he has started defending himself. In Washington today, Wright took on the critics who call his sermons racist and unpatriotic.
Here now, Reverend Jeremiah Wright in his own words.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REVEREND JEREMIAH WRIGHT, TRINITY UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST: This is not an attack on Jeremiah Wright. It has nothing to do with Senator Obama. It is an attack on the black church launched by people who know nothing about the African-American religious tradition.
And why am I speaking out now? In our community, we have something called playing the dozens. If you think I'm going to let you talk about my mama and her religious tradition, and my daddy and his religious tradition, and my grandma, you have got another think coming.
The prophetic theology of the black church in our day is preached to set African-Americans and all other Americans free from the misconceived notion that different means deficient.
Being different does not mean one is deficient. It simply means one is different, like snowflakes, like the diversity that God loves. Black music is different from European and European music. It is not deficient; it is just different.
Black worship is different from European and European-American worship. It is not deficient; it is just different.
Black preaching is different from European and European-American preaching. It is not deficient; it is just different. It is not bombastic; it is not controversial; it's different.
(APPLAUSE)
WRIGHT: Our congregation has sent dozens of boys and girls to fight in the Vietnam War, the first Gulf War, and the present two wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. My god-daughter's unit just arrived in Iraq this week, while those who call me unpatriotic have used their positions of privilege to avoid military service, while sending...
(APPLAUSE)
WRIGHT: ... while sending over 4,000 American boys and girls of every race to die over a lie.
(APPLAUSE)
MODERATOR: You have said that the media have taken you out of context. Can you explain what you meant in a sermon shortly after 9/11 when you said the United States had brought the terrorist attacks on itself? Quote, "America's chickens are coming home to roost."
WRIGHT: Have you heard the whole sermon? Have you heard the whole sermon?
MODERATOR: I heard most of it.
WRIGHT: No, no, the whole sermon, yes or no? No, you haven't heard the whole sermon? That nullifies that question.
Well, let me try to respond in a non-bombastic way. If you heard the whole sermon, first of all, you heard that I was quoting the ambassador from Iraq. That's number one.
But, number two, to quote the Bible, "Be not deceived. God is not mocked. For whatsoever you sow, that you also shall reap." Jesus said, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
You cannot do terrorism on other people and expect it never to come back on you. Those are biblical principles, not Jeremiah Wright bombastic, divisive principles.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: That was Reverend Wright today.
But it was a different Reverend Wright last night. He was in Detroit for a speech to the NAACP. And it was a much friendlier crowd and a very different kind of event. By the end of the speech, the Detroit audience was on its feet.
And, once again, here's Reverend Wright in his own words.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WRIGHT: We can make it if we try. We can make the change if we try. We will make a change if we try. A change is going to come. Can you feel it? Can you see it? Can you imagine it? Then come on, let's claim it. Give yourselves a standing ovation for the transformation that's about to jump off. A change is going to come.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: CNN special correspondent Soledad O'Brien was at Wright's -- Wright's speech last night, rather.
She's joining me now from Detroit.
And, Soledad, a different tone last night than compared to, I guess, what we heard today. You were there. What did you think?
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. You heard that last line right there and that really was the line right before everybody stood up and gave him the standing ovation and the speech ended.
He had the audience absolutely, positively in his hands. And a change is going to come was the title of the Detroit branch of the NAACP's whole dinner, a huge dinner, 10,000 people, absolutely excited to see Reverend Wright, a very friendly crowd, a very pro-Wright crowd.
So, he was really talking to a receptive audience, but also trying to get his message to a broader audience as well.
And I think, if there's a subtext here, it's that Reverend Wright really wanted his message to be heard in full, in toto. He's complained a lot about being cut down to sound bites and out of context. And I think last night was his opportunity to really spell out what he believes for the American public.
BROWN: And, Soledad, there are a lot of people out there who are hoping that he was going to stay quiet. But he is talking about why, specifically, it was important for him to speak out. What is he saying?
O'BRIEN: Yes. I think he made it clear that he felt that it wasn't just that he was under attack or even Barack Obama was under attack. He felt that his church, his church tradition, was not only misunderstood, that it was literally under attack.
And after a couple of weeks, he just couldn't sit quiet any longer. He had to stand up and defend his church. And, so, he started off by really giving a lot of history 101 about the black church. But I think he also took an opportunity to kind of take stabs at the critics who have mocked him, and he mocked them right back as well.
But, again, he was speaking to a receptive crowd and he felt this would be a good audience to spell out his beliefs and hopefully be heard by a wider audience as well.
O'BRIEN: All right, Soledad O'Brien, who was at that speech last night -- Soledad, thanks.
The Reverend Wright has been saying the controversy over his comments splits along racial lines. And we want to take a look at that.
Even a month ago, the majority of voters polled by the Pew Forum said they had heard of Reverend Wright's sermons. Almost half had seen the videos. And Wright appears to be on the money with what he said -- 58 percent of whites saying they are personally offended by the remarks, 64 percent of blacks saying that they were not offended.
So, we want to hear what our political panel thinks about all this.
With me now, Steve Kornacki, who is a columnist for "The New York Observer," Tara Wall, deputy editorial page editor at "The Washington Times," and CNN contributor Roland Martin, who's joining us as well.
Roland, I want to ask you about -- to follow up on what Soledad was just talking about, because you were in that room last night. You heard Reverend Wright at the Press Club this morning also. Did your opinion change over the last 24 hours?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, in terms of opinion about Reverend Wright or what his media strategy is?
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: If you can call it a media strategy, go ahead. It was a very different kind of message.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Well, no, first of all, there was indeed a media strategy there, because, for the longest, he was not talking.
I thought that initially him having a one-on-one with Bill Moyers which ran on Friday came across very well. I thought his speech last night also was a pretty good speech in terms of, he was humorous at times. There was laughter. Also, he talked about this whole issue of racial healing.
Also, one of the points I thought also was critical last night when he dealt with this whole notion that we have to figure out how we are going to treat each other properly, Christians, non-Christians, those who are Jewish, Muslim, who are Christian.
But the problem was today -- and even last week, Campbell, I told my radio audience that I thought that he was playing with fire going to the National Press Club, taking questions, because his tone, his remarks, how he responded to questions, facial expressions, all that plays a role in it. And frankly I was right.
I thought today was a failure. Friday was good. I gave it an A. I felt that yesterday, I gave it a B. Today was an F. He failed today, because what he did was, he came across as looking very pompous, as looking arrogant and, again, being dismissive, as opposed to elevating himself as a theological scholar. That's where I think he failed today.
BROWN: You guys agree, Tara?
TARA WALL, DEPUTY EDITORIAL PAGE EDITOR, "THE WASHINGTON TIMES": Yes, absolutely.
This idea about him being a victim, a victim of what, his own words? That was the same Kwame Kilpatrick defense. It was, I'm a victim of the media.
That just doesn't wash. He wants to have it both ways here. And it's just not going to work. On one hand, he is saying his words are taken out of context, but is not being responsible for what those words are or what he meant. You can't have it both ways. And I think that that is an attempt for him to do that.
And, at the same time, he wants to dismiss away the words as, well, this represents black churches or the black community. Well, it certainly is not mainstream black church and black community. I would argue with that. And many pastors who I have spoken with would argue with that.
BROWN: Well, you saw those poll numbers I threw up earlier -- 64 percent of that black community, according to that Pew poll, was fairly supportive of this original statement.
WALL: Well, I think that there are elements of Pastor Wright, Reverend Wright, that black folks can certainly equate with or equate to as the larger scope of the black church.
But those divisive remarks, even Senator Obama called divisive and called out of the scope and out of the mainstream. No one -- I don't think -- there are very few people that will agree with some of the language and some of the hateful words that he used.
But, yes, the bigger picture of being able to relate to a Reverend Wright, there are a number of black folks that do relate to that, yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: OK. Hold on, guys. I'm going to bring in Steve into this, too. We have got to take a quick break, though.
I want to follow up when we come back on what Tara just said.
Reverend Wright claims he's the victim here and he's blaming the media. And I want you all to weigh in on that when we come back on either count.
Also, we're going to have an update on tonight's breaking news. We are now getting in pictures. These are from Virginia, where tornadoes have injured at least 200 people. We will have more on that as well.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WRIGHT: I do what pastors do. He does what politicians do.
I am not running for office. I am open to being vice president.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Reverend Wright there and today claiming that he is a victim, that the media used originally a few sound bites to turn him into a caricature.
Well, over the last few days, we have heard a lot more than just a few sound bites.
So, let's ask our political panel whether we now have a better understanding of the man and his message.
Here again, Steve Kornacki of "The New York Observer," Tara Wall from "The Washington Times," and CNN contributor Roland Martin.
And, Steve, what about this claim by Wright that he's being victimized by the media?
STEVE KORNACKI, COLUMNIST, "THE NEW YORK OBSERVER": Well, look, if you saw the Jeremiah Wright who appeared on the "Bill Moyers" show on Friday, where he was sitting down at a table having I think a civil and I think a very revealing conversation, in-depth conversation, I think you did get a sense of the real Jeremiah Wright.
I don't want to say victim or victimized, because, in that sense, that suggests everything he said before is completely right and should be sort of dismissed and excused. I think things are generally more complex than that.
I think the problem today was -- I agree with Roland said earlier -- he appeared at the Press Club. The audience was packed with his supporters. And he sort of fell into preacher mode. He started playing off the crowd, playing to the crowd.
And, yes, I think a lot of what maybe works in his church, when it's all a friendly audience and there aren't cameras around generally, doesn't work when he sort of has to answer for these sort of things.
But I do think there is a more complex man there than what you hear from just these sound bites on just these issues and just these clips from YouTube.
BROWN: And doesn't he -- in fairness, because he is somebody who has been fairly beaten up over the last few weeks since these original comments were played over and over again, doesn't he have the right to defend himself and a right to be angry?
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Yes. Campbell, absolutely.
First of all, he does have a right to defend himself. And I will agree there have been some egregious actions on the part of people in the media. I have participated in debate after debate. And I had heard people say Reverend Wright said this, this and this. And I'm like, no, he didn't. I actually heard the sermon.
And then when you ask them, did you actually hear, they said, no, I actually didn't hear. And so you do have that. I do believe that.
But again I think even -- Campbell, even on the whole issue in terms of how blacks and whites look at it, look, we have always had that. He even spoke yesterday this whole notion of two different worlds. But the bottom line is this. He had an opportunity today with a world audience to be able to show a different side of who he was. He dropped that particular ball.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: And that's where he failed.
WALL: And defend himself against what? He's not defending himself. He's not apologizing. He's not taking anything back. He's not explaining what he meant and what he said.
You can explain away anything on the Bible. White separatists in the KKK use the Bible to justify what they say as well. It doesn't make what he said right. It doesn't make it acceptable. And we have to elevate the conversation to another level, if we're going to talk about unity of races.
(CROSSTALK)
WALL: You need to have the same standards.
We had this discussion about race after Don Imus and his nappy- headed hos comment and Senator Allen and his macaca moment. If we're going to use that same standard with them, we ought to have the same standard with him as well. Let's have a real discussion about race and use it across the board.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: OK. Hold on, guys, one second.
I want to bring in what Senator Obama said today, because he did respond to these comments this afternoon. Let's listen quickly to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think certainly what the last three days indicate is that we're not coordinating with him, right?
You know, he's obviously free to speak his mind. But I just want to emphasize, this is my former pastor. Many of the statements that he made, both to trigger this initial controversy and that he's made over the last several days, are not statements that I had heard him make previously. They don't represent my views. And they don't represent what this campaign is about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Steve, if you're Barack Obama right now, a lot of frustration.
KORNACKI: No, he's in a terrible position right now.
And the silver lining for him, if there is any, is this is happening in April. This is not happening in October, because I think, if you're Obama's campaign, your ideal strategy was, Jeremiah Wright, for whatever reason, decides he's not going to say anything else for the rest of the campaign and hopefully the story lives sort of back in the spring.
I think it was unreasonable to expect a man who devoted his entire life and just retired from the ministry in the last several months -- it was mistake to sort of -- it was a miscalculation if you believed he was going to remain silent and not speak up and defend himself.
And if I could just, we're getting into this caricature vs. reality thing now. Some of what he says, I agree, most of what he says that has been highlighted in the media is completely indefensible. For instance, he mentioned the things that gets a lot of play about the government invented AIDS as vengeance against blacks.
BROWN: Right.
KORNACKI: That's crazy. But you know what? Let's look a little more at the context, not at the statement, at the life.
This is a man whose ministry was reaching out to people who were affected by the disease, by AIDS, before the president of the United States would even say the word. When there was such a stigma attached to AIDS that the president of the United States in the 1980s wouldn't even mention it, Jeremiah Wright was reaching out to those people through his ministry.
Now, what he says and what everybody hears is crazy, I agree. What he has done with his life, there has to be some respect for that, if we're going to talk about this man and skewer him on national television.
WALL: Well, no one would begrudge him that.
It is wholly legitimate to criticize the government, to criticize immorality in America. But there is a separation between love and hate. And, as a pastor, you are preach hate -- or -- excuse me -- preach love, not hate. And that is the separating line here.
BROWN: OK, Roland, I know you have many, many more thoughts.
But, everybody, hang on. The panel is going to stick with us. We're going to get more from you guys coming up very shortly, and also ask the question, is John McCain just sitting back wondering how he got so lucky to have this Democratic mess fall into his lap? So far, the McCain campaign has said that Obama's relationship with Reverend Wright -- and this is from John McCain -- is quote -- "a legitimate political issue for the campaign."
But now that Wright has broken his silence to speak out so forcefully, what does Senator McCain think? I'm going to ask him when he joins me here in the ELECTION CENTER tomorrow night. That's at 8:00 Eastern time.
But tonight our focus is on the impact of the Reverend Wright controversy. We will have -- on the race for the White House, we're going to have more on what Senator Obama's camp must do to put this behind him and what his rivals will do to make the controversy work for them -- when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: More now on tonight's breaking news: tornadoes in Virginia.
We have got at least 200 people hurt, from what we are learning. Most of the injuries are in Suffolk. That's in the southeast corner of the state. At least one tornado hit the town, destroying homes and businesses, also damaging a hospital.
More severe storms left some 18 people injured in central Virginia. That's near Richmond. We're going to have a little bit more on this coming up shortly.
Tonight, we are also looking at the reemergence of controversial Pastor Jeremiah Wright and the impact on the campaign.
First, I want to show you the latest Democratic delegate count. Obama has 1,725, Clinton 1,588.
The most recent comments from Obama's former pastor are without a doubt new fuel for a controversy the campaign had hoped would die down. The candidate has been trying to distance himself from the outspoken reverend.
Our Candy Crowley has been with Obama today in North Carolina -- Candy. CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Campbell, we are just wrapping up here with another town hall meeting in Wilson, North Carolina. Earlier, he was in Wilmington. I can tell you, at both places, he took questions, not one of them about Jeremiah Wright.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY (voice-over): Sometimes the best way around something is through it.
OBAMA: He does not speak for me. He does not speak for the campaign.
CROWLEY: While his former preacher made headlines in Washington, D.C., Barack Obama was in North Carolina doing a bit of a mea culpa.
OBAMA: There are times where sometimes we get sucked into this whole negative thing. You know, people throw elbows at you, you start feeling like, oh, I got to throw an elbow back. But the problem is that it doesn't help you.
CROWLEY: He spoke at a town hall meeting in Wilmington for an hour-and-a-half. They talked global warming, education, trade and health care. Nobody talked about Jeremiah Wright.
WRIGHT: I am not running for office. I am open to being vice president.
(LAUGHTER)
CROWLEY: But they are not laughing inside the Obama campaign. Though declining to offer a damage assessment, one strategist said, "No one can doubt at this point that Reverend Wright is for Reverend Wright."
The pastor's mini speaking tour is an untimely event for Obama, coming just a week before the Indiana and North Carolina primaries and in the midst of his intense courtship of the white working-class vote.
OBAMA: I didn't get in this race to run against Senator Clinton. I ran to run against unemployment. I ran to run against lack of educational opportunity. I ran to run against lack of health care and substandard housing and a war that we should not have fought.
CROWLEY: Obama is looking for a respectable showing among blue- collar voters. Part of Hillary Clinton's argument to superdelegates is, he can't win a general election because he can't attract that constituency, a constituency presumed the most likely to be turned off by Wright's words.
The reemergence of the reverend is exponentially harmful to Obama's mission. It gives Hillary Clinton another swing at it, even as she cries foul.
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would not have stayed in that church under those circumstances, but I regret the efforts by the Republicans to politicize this matter.
CROWLEY: For John McCain, who insists he opposes an ad using Wright's image to boost North Carolina Republicans, the continued storyline is another opportunity to comment on his no comment.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have no comments on it, but I also understand why millions of Americans may, as Senator Obama said yesterday, view this as a political issue.
CROWLEY: It is grin and bear it time. A top aide says nobody in the Obama campaign has attempted to contact Reverend Wright.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: So, Candy with us live now.
And, Candy, how much harm do you think that Reverend Wright's media tour has inflicted on Senator Obama and how much more can we expect Obama to push back?
CROWLEY: Well, you know, he is pushing back, Campbell.
And it's really interesting, because he's doing it in a kind of indirect way, but you can get the message. I mean, what he's saying here is, listen, this is not about me. This is about you all. This is about the voters. This is one of the things that he's doing to kind of reach out to these working-class voters that we're talking about.
So, in some way, it's an indirect response to the Reverend Wright thing, which is just, well, it's not about me. It's about you. It's about what you want. We get these distractions and it's what keeps us from doing our job. He's also reaching out here again to that working-class vote, saying, listen, I come from you. I was the son of a single mom, that kind of thing.
So, how much damage has it done? I think we will know a little bit more next Tuesday.
BROWN: All right, Candy Crowley tonight -- Candy, as always, thanks.
So, how can the campaign make Reverend Wright a non-issue? Who better to ask than Senator Obama's chief strategist, David Axelrod. He's joining us now.
David, thanks for joining us tonight. Appreciate it.
DAVID AXELROD, CHIEF OBAMA CAMPAIGN STRATEGIST: Hey, Campbell. Good to be here. Happy to be here.
BROWN: Senator Obama, as you know, has called his association with Reverend Wright a legitimate political issue. And, understandably, over the years, Obama has described Wright as a huge influence. But this episode, at the very least, is taking him way, way off message. How do you get back on track?
AXELROD: Well, actually, I don't think it's taking him off message. It may be taking you guys off message.
I was interested when Candy said that not one question from actual voters came up about Reverend Wright at these town-hall meetings, because, all across North Carolina, all across Indiana, there are people who are struggling with real issues about their jobs, about their health care, their gas bills, how to educate their kids.
Washington's let them down. They know that. They need real change. And they want it. And Senator Obama represents that. That's what he's speaking to. And, so, I think, as often happens, I think the voters are looking at something quite different than the folks who live in the little bubble you and I work in.
BROWN: But it's not just the media driving this, as you know, David. I mean, Clinton is talking about it. McCain is talking about it. The Republicans are having a field day right now. And we're not even in the general election yet.
AXELROD: Well, you raise an interesting point, because Senator McCain has always held himself out as someone who is above all of that. And he's really leaped in with both feet.
This ad that's running in North Carolina is under the auspices of the Republican Party there. He's the leader of the Republican Party. If he didn't want that ad to run, it wouldn't be running. So, he's really defining himself through this period. And I don't think people are going to see that as consistent with the kind of person and the kind of politician that he purports to be.
BROWN: Wright's media tour isn't really helping Obama win over those white working-class voters that he's struggling with that we hear so much about. All the polls have essentially shown that, that Obama needs to make up ground with this group.
Why is he having so much trouble with them? And what are you guys doing to fix it?
AXELROD: Well, first of all, Campbell, if you look at the exit polls through the primary season, he's won his share of those voters. And, in a dozen or so states, he's actually -- he's carried that vote.
Give Senator Clinton a little credit. She's a formidable opponent, and she has a base. A lot of these votes come among older voters, who feel an allegiance to President Clinton and to the Clintons.
So that's part of what we're dealing with here. But ultimately, we're going to be a unified party in the fall, and the key is how can we expand our base...
BROWN: Right. AXELROD: ... and bring independents, disaffected Republicans. Barack Obama can do that to a degree Senator Clinton can. That's why he's doing better on many of these swing states.
BROWN: There has been a sense though, David, lately, that Obama is a little bit off his game. "The New York Times" reported this morning that campaign aides described him as bored with the primary race. What's going on here? Do you need to jump start this thing?
AXELROD: Nationally, I think the primary race is pretty interesting. And I think Candy will tell you he's fully engaged out there. He, as you said -- as she said, he answered an hour and a half of questions at one town hall, then went on and did it again at another and another, and he's going out there and working hard at this. Because ultimately, this is the best opportunity we have to really fundamentally challenge what's going on in Washington. I think he feels that strongly, and he's working hard out there.
BROWN: And finally, there's a poll out today that does have to have some of the superdelegates pretty concerned. The "AP"-Ipsos survey shows in a general election matchup, Hillary Clinton would beat John McCain by nine points, but when you put Obama up against McCain, a statistical tie. Superdelegates want to win this thing. How do you convince them that Obama is the one who is more electable?
AXELROD: Well, first of all, there are other polls out there that say something different. And as I said in states like Washington and Oregon and Colorado and Minnesota and Iowa, states that we have to have, Wisconsin, there was a poll today that had Obama winning, Clinton losing. He is showing the ability to expand the base of this party.
So that's why 88 superdelegates have joined up with us since February 5th. I think Senator Clinton has netted out about eight. She's lost some and she's gained some and netted about eight. So we're doing fine with the superdelegates. We announced not only today Senator Bingaman.
So things are -- things are going well on that front. I think they understand that in politics there are tempests in a teapot. This will be one when we look back in the rear view mirror.
BROWN: All right. David Axelrod for us tonight, chief strategist for the Obama campaign. Appreciate it David.
AXELROD: Thanks, Campbell.
BROWN: In just a moment, Senator John McCain's first remarks about all of this. Plus, I'll ask our panel what if the biggest obstacle for the first ever black presidential nominee turns out to be his one-time pastor. That's coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REV. JEREMIAH WRIGHT, SENATOR OBAMA'S FORMER PASTOR: If God intends for Mr. Obama to be the president, then no white racist, no political pundit and no speech, nothing can get in the way because God will do what God wants to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So the Reverend Jeremiah Wright is fairly certain neither his comments nor anyone else's will make or break the Obama campaign? Well, what are the odds he's right?
With me again are 'New York Observer" columnist Steve Kornacki, Tara Wall, deputy editorial page editor of the "Washington Times," and in Chicago, CNN contributor Roland Martin.
And so, guys, Steve, I'll start with you. We just heard from David Axelrod from the Obama campaign who's essentially acknowledging they got a problem on their hands. A media creation in their view, but still a problem on their hands.
He's already given this big, great speech. What do you do? How do you say enough, let's move on and have it stick?
STEVE KORNACKI, "NEW YORK OBSERVER": I don't think at this point you necessarily do anything, and you hope that this is a story that's going to be generating a lot of media attention right now, and that the reverend stops talking after this, says his piece and goes back to doing whatever he was doing for the last six weeks, and then hopefully, you know, people move on to other things. And you keep in mind that we're in April, we're not in the middle of October right now.
And what Obama has going in his favor, I have to agree with David Axelrod to a degree on this, he has going in his favor something very powerful in politics. It's generally something that separates the winners from the losers regardless of party. And that is that there is a veneer of likability about Barack Obama.
Ronald Reagan had it, Bill Clinton had it and Barack Obama has it. And it makes people inclined to believe the best about him and not the worst. And that's the best bet the Barack Obama campaign has going for them right now.
They're going to throw Reverend Wright in his face for the rest of this campaign. But because of that likeability, people will be inclined to believe him when he says don't hold this against me.
BROWN: OK.
TARA WALL, "WASHINGTON TIMES": It's also that likeability too that is a double-edge sword. And that is why it's wholly legitimate for McCain and others to be bringing up this issue because people -- the American people don't -- still don't know as likable as he is, as intelligent, we all love to hear him speak, we all, you know, get a good feeling when he speaks. But the lot of American people still don't know who Senator Obama is, what he stands for and it's wholly legitimate when you put a man like this on your political campaign as he has done up until about a month and a half ago to ask these questions.
BROWN: Let me interrupt you only because --
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Campbell, look --
BROWN: Hold on Roland, she just brought up Senator McCain, and I do want to play a little bit of what he had to say today so we know what we're talking about. This is Senator McCain on the issue today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I can understand why people are upset about this. I can understand why that Americans, when viewing these kinds of comments are angry and upset. Just like they viewed Senator Obama's statements about why people turn to their faith and their values.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: I'm going to let Tara and Roland have out this one. Because as McCain yesterday...
MARTIN: Sure.
BROWN: ... he's saying that he believe -- he doesn't believe that Obama shares Wright's extremist views, but he clearly is trying to take advantage of this moment. Roland, sorry, go ahead.
MARTIN: Of course, he is. Look, if -- of course, he is. If I'm Obama, and what I would say is Senator McCain, clearly people are upset about the war that you support. Clearly people are upset about the fact that troops from small towns are going to support this war. Clearly they are upset about the fact that gas prices are more than $4 a gallon. That's how you do it.
The reality is Obama has to be able to say look, I've addressed the issue. I've addressed Reverend Wright. If you have any further questions regarding Reverend Wright, you should call Reverend Wright. I'm running for president. I'm Senator Barack Obama. That's what he has to say.
Now, granted, he may not do it in that way, but he has to make the point of look, he's not running, I'm running. And then if he want -- you know, and challenge McCain on the core issues and if McCain wants to talk about Reverend Wright, go right ahead. But Reverend Wright is not going to get anybody a job. He's not going to get -- he's going to save anybody's home. That's the ad to they must take.
BROWN: Quickly, is McCain -- could this backfire?
WALL: Well, no, I don't think it will, and I write about this in my column tomorrow. It's not going to back fire. It is going to be an issue. It's going to be a monkey on Senator Barack Obama's back for the rest of the campaign. It may not hurt him overall in the long run. It may not cost him, but it is going to hurt him in the short-term with some of those voters that are on the fence, and it should. It is a legitimate issue, and it should be raised.
BROWN: Quickly, last word, Steve.
KORNACKI: The question isn't -- the question is what people believe in the end. I don't believe they'll believe it. We'll talk about it now, but they won't vote on it in November.
BROWN: All right. Thanks, guys. To Steve, Tara and Roland, appreciate it everybody.
So we've heard a lot from Reverend Wright over the last 24 hours, but who is he? Who's the man? How did he become the preacher at the center of this storm?
What's clear is this. For decades, he's been consistent about practicing what he preaches. A pastor, an activist, a teacher and a veteran, proud of serving his country. That's part of the story when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Chances are you've never even heard of Reverend Jeremiah Wright until his controversial greatest hits started looping endlessly on the Internet and TV news a few weeks ago. So we asked David Mattingly to give us a profile of the preacher himself.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): To many, he is a grainy figure, incendiary and controversial, who has become a distraction, if not a political liability for Barack Obama. But those who know the Reverend Jeremiah Wright, Jr. say this is only a small glimpse of a life-long career devoted to inseparable matters of faith and race.
DWIGHT HOPKINS, UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO DIVINITY SCHOOL: He holds both together in a smooth seamless way actually.
MATTINGLY: Divinity professor Dwight Hopkins first met Wright almost 30 years ago. Wright was born in Philadelphia in 1941 and followed a rich family tradition to become a third generation pastor. But Hopkins first came to know Wright as deeply committed to education. Wright holds two masters degrees and a doctorate in theology.
MATTINGLY (on camera): But Hopkins says one of the biggest turning points in Wright's life came in his years as an undergraduate. He was shocked to find white Christians who used Christianity to justify segregation and racial discrimination.
HOPKINS: I think it just deepened his perspective that the bible or so-called gospel has to speak to earthly issues for people who don't have a voice.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): Wright left college to join the marines, proof many say he is a fighter who believes in service to his country.
REV. JEREMIAH WRIGHT, JR., TRINITY UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST: I served six years in the military. Does that make me patriotic? How many years did Cheney serve?
MATTINGLY: Wright eventually transferred to the Navy where he had his first brush with a U.S. president. As a cardiopulmonary technician, Wright was part of a medical team that removed Lyndon Johnson's gallbladder. That's Wright behind the IV bottle.
But the pulpit was always Wright's destiny. In 1972, he took over as pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago. And it's been a spiritual home ever since, a place for him to launch a message of liberation and reconciliation.
HOPKINS: His primary purpose is to serve people who are less off, people who are sort of left out in the major policy decision- making processes in America.
MATTINGLY: And with that message, Wright's church grew from a congregation of dozens to one of thousands, at times even finding the ear of the White House.
MATTINGLY (on camera): Wright's friends also talk of his mastery of multiple languages and his skills as a musician. But to sum up this man, this pastor, this husband, father of five and grandfather, we're told to simply look to the motto of Reverend Wright's church, "Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian." David Mattingly, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Later tonight on "AC 360," Joe Johns takes us "Inside Black Churches" for reaction to the uproar over Jeremiah Wright's sermons. Here's a preview now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. JEREMIAH WRIGHT, TRINITY UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST: Barack knows what it means to be a black man living in a country.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Black preachers we spoke to see an attack on Wright as an attack on their freedom to preach.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is not preaching hate theology. That should be a clear statement. It's not hate theology. It is a liberation theology.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: What you may not understand about what's going on "Inside Black Churches," that's tonight at 10:00 Eastern on "AC 360." We're about to get the latest on tonight's breaking news. Tornadoes slam Virginia, 200 people are hurt. Find out where those storms are headed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We're following breaking news this hour. At least two tornadoes, it looks like possibly three tornadoes hit Virginia this afternoon, damaging homes, businesses and even a hospital. Some 200 people are injured. Officials tell CNN the worst damage is in Suffolk. That's in the southeastern part of the state of Virginia.
A twister with winds estimated at around 100 miles an hour cut this swathe of damage that is the length of three football fields. Meteorologist Chad Myers is in the CNN weather center now for us-- Chad.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Campbell, it was kind of an ugly afternoon across parts of southeastern Virginia. The storm started there about Murphy's Burrough (ph), North Carolina and rolled right up into the city of Suffolk going right through the town of Driver as well. This is about 4:00 this afternoon when it went right through Suffolk.
Some pictures from the devastation is the only word that you can really use here for this. This is WVEC. We actually had a couple of tornadoes, as you mentioned, one in the city of Colonial Heights. Now, that was up near Richmond or Petersburg.
This one a much larger storm. The one here must have been an F- 3, no question, 150 to 180-mile-per-hour winds with this storm as it rolled right through Suffolk and into Driver. It lifted as it got into Norfolk proper into Hampton Roads, but literally that the aerials that we have been seeing through the day, and there you see them right now, houses are obliterated. You cannot even figure out where the basement would have been, where the slab would have been, and that is indicative of at least 160 to 170 miles per hour.
And so far, no fatalities, and it's hard to believe when you see the length of this path of this storm miles and miles long with damage just like that -- Campbell.
BROWN: Wow. Yes, Chad. I'm just looking at the pictures. Pretty amazing.
MYERS: Yes.
BROWN: Tough times for folks there. We're going to keep you up to breast, up to speed rather as we learn more information. Chad Myers for us. Chad, thanks.
MYERS: You're welcome.
BROWN: And we are just minutes away now from the top of the hour, and Larry king who tonight has former President Jimmy Carter to talk about his controversial trip to meet with officials in Hamas -- Larry.
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": That's right, Campbell. Jimmy Carter, he's back in the news. He's our big guest. I'll talk to him about the Mideast, of course, and about Reverend Wright's comments and the hot race for the Democratic presidential nomination. And is he going to endorse somebody?
The 39th president live at the top of the hour right here in New York only on "LARRY KING LIVE" -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right. Thanks, Larry.
Our next stop the "War Room." I'm going to ask our campaign strategy experts if Barack Obama should open up a back channel and tell Reverend Wright to cool it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. JEREMIAH WRIGHT, SEN. OBAMA'S FORMER PASTOR: We both know that if Senator Obama did not say what he said, he would never get elected. Politicians say what they say and do what they do based on electability, based on sound bites, based on polls, "Huffington," whoever is doing the polls. Preachers say what they say because they are pastors. They have a different person to whom they are accountable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: A defiant Jeremiah Wright speaking this morning in Washington. The question is whether Barack Obama can ever put this behind him, if Wright won't let it go away.
Our party strategists are in the "War Room" tonight itching to square off on that question. We've got Republican Ed Rollins and Democrat Jamal Simmons.
Welcome to you both.
JAMAL SIMMONS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Thank you.
BROWN: Jamal, let me start with you. Jeremiah Wright has been all over the place this week, not at all helping Obama. If you're running the campaign, would you send him an intermediary? Would you think about sending somebody to appeal to Wright directly through a back channel maybe, and ask him to dial it back?
SIMMONS: You know, I don't know if Barack Obama even tried to send an emissary, if that person would be listened to by Jeremiah Wright. So why even try and get in trouble?
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: They said no that they haven't.
SIMMONS: Why? So why even --
BROWN: But is it worth reaching out?
SIMMONS: So why even try and get in trouble and even have to answer that question. I think the one thing that's becoming clear today, as I think as Barack Obama has said earlier, is that they are not coordinating with Jeremiah Wright. And Jeremiah Wright said pretty definitively that if Barack Obama became president he would be just as hard on him as he is on any other government leader in the United States.
So I think that says what Americans have been maybe a little bit curious about is how close is this relationship. It may have been a pastoral relationship, but it certainly is not some kind of a tutor that's pulling the strings on the Obama candidacy behind closed doors.
BROWN: No. I know, but my question is for you to put yourself in the shoes of strategist here, and ask yourself wouldn't it be a good idea to coordinate a little bit?
SIMMONS: I don't think -- it's not going to work. So if it's not going to work, it's not a good idea.
BROWN: It's not. There's no point in doing it. OK.
Ed, but you're representing the Clinton campaign. She said I don't really need to go out there and push this issue because the media is doing my job for me. I mean, that's basically been their view.
ED ROLLINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, she's right, it's out there. And, you know, I think I disagree. I would basically make every overture to try and calm this guy down because his words are inflammatory, and they're hurting him.
All she has to do is basically keep reminding delegates, superdelegates, not publicly, that these kinds of issues are going to be issues again in the fall. My campaign is about who can win. I think this will be a detriment to both Democrats running and also if Obama becomes the candidate.
BROWN: OK. So, Ed, let's say that he is the nominee and now you're working for John McCain. How do you -- how do you -- there's sort of a delicate dance here of trying to remain above the fray or appear to be above the fray. But --
ROLLINS: Well, you can't -- you won't stay above the fray all the way because obviously you're going to be in a seven-week knock down drag out brawl. It's going to be very, very close.
BROWN: So you'll use this issue?
ROLLINS: I would wait and see what the issue is at that point in time. There may be better issues to use by that point in time. But certainly today, it's a hot issue and it's taken him off his message. Whatever takes him off his message and distracts you would use in any campaign.
BROWN: Jamal, do you think that Senator Obama needs to push back harder? I mean, you heard what he said today, which is, you know, you paraphrased it earlier. Does he need to do something more than they've already done to try to close this out?
SIMMONS: Well, it's obvious he's going to have to keep talking about this. You know, one thing that Barack Obama did earlier as we all saw was that great speech he gave in Philadelphia to try to have a healing moment from this. And the one thing that's encouraging I got to imagine for the Obama campaign is that the number of people who watched that speech dwarfed the number of people who watched Jeremiah Wright's statements on the YouTube video.
You see like three, four, five million people are watching these YouTube videos and, you know, few hundred thousands are watching the Jeremiah Wright one.
So I think people need to -- I think Obama needs to keep talking about this. Everybody wants to hear it. He's going to do that for a while. But, you know, at the end of the day, people are going to vote for a president based on his stance on the war in Iraq, and the economy and all the things that it is they want to get done for themselves and not done because of Jeremiah Wright.
BROWN: And you're shaking your head. You don't think he needs to keep talking about it?
ROLLINS: No, I would not talk -- I would push back on certainly. But right now, he's got to convince the superdelegates, which is going to be the margin of error, a couple hundred people, that he can win. And he can't win with this albatross around his neck. And so, somehow, he has to convince them this is not how I think. This is not who's going to be around me, and he's not going to be an embarrassment to me in the fall.
BROWN: All right. Ed Rollins and Jamal, thanks to both of you. Good to see you, Jamal Simmons for us.
SIMMONS: Thank you.
BROWN: All right. "LARRY KING LIVE" with former President Jimmy Carter coming up at the top of the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: That does it for us tonight. "LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
