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Campbell Brown

Obama and McCain Square Off Over Iraq; DNC Prepares to Decide Fate of Florida and Michigan Delegates; What's Next for Bill Clinton After the Primaries?

Aired May 29, 2008 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, everyone.
One of the most important debates in this year's presidential race is going on hot and heavy tonight. It's Barack Obama vs. John McCain, squaring off on national security, experience, and the war in Iraq.

McCain has been taunting Obama for his willingness to sit down with the leaders of North Korea, Cuba and Iran.

Then, earlier this week, McCain opened a second line of attack, pointing out that Obama hasn't visited Iraq since 2006.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Why is it that Senator Obama wants to sit down with the president of Iran, but hasn't yet sat down with General Petraeus, a leader of our troops?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Now, Obama dismissed that jab last night. Listen to what he told reporters on his campaign jet.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Again, that's just, you know, a typical sarcastic comment that doesn't have anything to do with the substance, and is patently untrue, since I just saw General Petraeus when he was testifying in Washington.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Now, Obama also turned down McCain's invitation to visit Iraq together.

So, McCain kept up the goading today. And here is what he said in Wisconsin just a little bit ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCAIN: He doesn't understand the situation in Iraq. He doesn't get it. This is now the 872nd day since Senator Obama went to Iraq -- once.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Now, counting days and trying to get Obama to visit Iraq, they all may just be political stunts, but there are real differences between McCain and Obama on foreign policy.

And all of this opens an absolutely crucial debate.

And, right now, I want to bring in CNN senior political correspondent Candy Crowley, who is in Chicago tonight.

And, Candy, this debate is about a whole lot more than a trip to Iraq. It's about an attack on Obama's experience, a line of attack that we will likely be hearing a lot of leading up to November, won't we?

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely.

If John McCain has his way, this election will be about national security, about who understands foreign policy, and about what the threat to the nation is. You are right.

They are very far apart on a lot of the things, beginning with the Iraq war, as you know. John McCain has been a supporter of the war, if not always the way it's been carried out. Barack Obama was a critic before the U.S. want to war in Iraq and has been ever since, now calling for a withdrawal.

What Obama has to be careful about, of course, is, playing on McCain's field, because what McCain wants to do is make security and the nation a home-and-hearth issue, saying, listen, I mean, the gist of this being, sure, gas prices are high, and, yes, home mortgages are in a crisis, but if people don't feel safe in their own country, that's really the premier issue. So, they will push this as hard as they can to try to put Obama on the defensive.

BROWN: And, Candy, on the issue of this trip to Iraq, you have been reporting that the Obama campaign has been planning a foreign trip for a long time now, and that it's not a response to McCain's criticisms. But it is going to certainly look that way now, isn't it, if he does end up taking this trip?

CROWLEY: Sure, absolutely.

It looks as though, coming -- I mean, this, well, I may go to Iraq some time between now and November came right in the midst of Obama saying, well, he hasn't been in more than two years. The Republican National Committee put up a clock on their Web site to chart the number of days that Obama has not been to Iraq.

And, so, obviously, again, you don't want to be responding. You want to be out there setting your own agenda. So, regardless -- and they did talk in the Obama campaign some time ago about putting him on some foreign trips, because, you know, you play on that stage and you look presidential.

But then this campaign, of course, has gone on so long, he hasn't had the opportunity to do this. That he now says, well, I may go to Iraq obviously looked very much like a response to what McCain has been saying.

BROWN: And, Candy, the bottom line here, though, is that Obama doesn't have a lot of foreign policy experience, certainly comparatively with McCain. What is ultimately going to be his message to voters to try to reassure them that he's ready to be a wartime president?

CROWLEY: Well, first of all, a couple of things. While, say, George Bush and even Bill Clinton had more executive experience than Barack Obama, he has been involved in some foreign policy things since coming up on Capitol Hill.

So, he could argue that, when you look at Bill Clinton's resume or you look at George Bush's resume going into office, that he certainly is quite competitive there and even has an advantage. So, obviously, they can put that out there.

They also would love to have this discussion about the Iraq war with John McCain, because they believe, obviously, that the country is against it. Beyond that, I have to tell you, this -- this one issue of talking to our enemies has true resonance out on the campaign trail.

The pundits and certainly a lot of the politicians, including those who support Obama, have said, well, you know, you have got to walk very carefully here, and you have to have preconditions, but, out on the campaign trail, this makes sense to people.

BROWN: All right, Candy Crowley, again for us tonight -- Candy, thanks.

And, as Candy said, Obama now says that he is considering a trip to Iraq some time before the November election. Well, what would he actually see there, if anything?

CNN's Michael Ware is based in Baghdad.

Michael, based on your own experiences on the ground in Iraq, do you think there's any value in Obama coming there and spending time with the generals and spending time with the troops?

MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Campbell, certainly, for Obama, there is. It appears to me here from this distance away in the midst of the war that Obama's been politically cornered.

So, it's almost as if he has no choice but to come here. And all credit to him, anyone who is prepared to come here, any policy-maker who wants to at least attempt to touch and feel this war, you have to give that some respect.

But let's look at the reality. What is he really going to get? What kind of a picture is he going to be able to get hold of? At the end of the day, probably not that much greater than the picture he could have obtained from General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker in a private meeting when they went to Capitol Hill to testify just a month ago.

He can speak to Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, the head of the Iraqi government. Whatever Nouri al-Maliki says to him is going to be what he thinks Senator Obama or any other American official wants to hear. That can be done by phone as well.

The value of coming here is just to get the aroma, the taste, hopefully some sense of the desperate atmospherics of this place, because it is certainly true that Senator Obama, like Senator McCain on any of his trips, will be seeing a very distorted picture of Iraq -- Campbell.

BROWN: Well, that's what I was going to ask, because the last time he was there was in 2006. If he does visit it again, do you think that he would see an actual change compared to his last visit?

WARE: Well, again, this is a problematic issue. He will see the airport of Baghdad. He will see the inside of a Black Hawk helicopter as he flies to the security of the Green Zone, which he's seen before.

He will see the inside of the U.S. Embassy or the inside of any of the massive American military bases around the country. Will that be new? No. Is that a true Iraqi experience? Far from it.

But will he be able to gauge a perhaps more frank, a more realistic, a more honest assessment from the commanders here on the ground? Perhaps. I mean, having known General David Petraeus since his first tour here in 2003, just after the invasion, all the way through to personally in Congress watching him testify, I can tell you, David Petraeus is a straight shooter.

And he will be very frank with Senator Obama or Senator McCain or anyone else who visits. But, like I said, they're not going to be able to live the difference, to really taste it. And the most important issue here now in Iraq is something that you won't see from the air and you won't get from the comforts of the U.S. Embassy. And that's the issue of Iran and how much of a stake and how much of a grip they have here. So, that change, he certainly won't be able to see -- Campbell.

BROWN: A good point.

Michael Ware for us tonight -- Michael, as always, thank you.

John McCain and Barack Obama may already be going at it, but Hillary Clinton says, not so fast; I can still win this thing.

Well, next, the scenarios. We will look at whether she possibly could.

And then later, from the pulpit of Barack Obama's church, shocking words from another spiritual leader. The apologies have already started.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: Fasten your seat belts, everybody. The Democrats' wild race for the nomination is about to hit the finish line. It all comes down to three primaries, two candidates, and one colossal showdown, Saturday's meeting to decide once and for all what to do about Hillary Clinton's tainted wins in Michigan and Florida.

That is the day that really could decide the nomination. We mean it this time. And I will be here in the Election Center all day long, along with the best political team on television.

Heading into the homestretch, here is how Hillary Clinton, right now, sees the race.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I lead in the popular vote. Senator Obama has a slight lead in the delegate count. This is going down to the wire. Neither one of us have the number of delegates yet that would secure the nomination.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: It may in fact be going down to the wire. But, realistically, is there any conceivable way that she can get to the finish line ahead of Barack Obama?

Well, Tom Foreman is here to game out the possibilities for us -- Tom.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we had to get our chalkboard and our chalk to go through this.

(LAUGHTER)

FOREMAN: Everyone knows the numbers right now are very bad for Hillary Clinton.

Our latest delegate count shows Barack Obama is leading in the number of states won. He is winning in the popular vote. When she says she's winning, she's talking about Michigan and Florida being included. And they are not yet. You can't do that.

Delegates won through caucuses and primaries, he's winning on that account, and superdelegates, too. So, he's winning across the board on all of those things. He needs only about 45 more delegates to clinch the nomination. She needs 244 to reach this magic number of 2,026.

So, in other words, she needs almost twice as many delegates as there are available in the remaining contests. I will pull down my magic map here, and you can see the contests we're talking about. There you go, South Dakota, Montana and Puerto Rico way down in the corner. She needs more than twice as many of all those people.

But the Rules Committee could change this whole equation by changing that big number. We will put our map back up. What if they update that number by adding Michigan and Florida? That will push it up to 2,210. Then Obama will need 234. Clinton will need 432.

BROWN: But, Tom, that would then move the finish line for both of them. So, how exactly does that help Hillary Clinton?

FOREMAN: Well, you're right.

It does move the finish line for both of them. But she doesn't want Florida and Michigan to be equally divided. She wants to say that, even though the vote there was unusual, to say the least, because she won, even though Obama wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan, she still says she should get a lion's share of the delegates.

That would help her at least narrow the gap. And, more importantly Campbell, such a move would give her time and territory in which to maneuver. Under this scenario, the one we talked about here, that second group of numbers doesn't look as bad. The race doesn't look as close to being over. And she can make her arguments about electability. She can lean on the superdelegates and point to these numbers and, say, look, he's been unable to close the deal. Give me a shot here.

All indications are that the committee will not reinstate the entire delegations, but even a 50 percent reinstatement will help her argue that her campaign is still alive. And, Campbell, I will be in the room there for the meeting on Saturday.

BROWN: You will, indeed.

FOREMAN: We will be in touch all day finding out the details. That is the day.

BROWN: I know. Can't wait to find out what happens.

All right, Tom Foreman.

And Tom is going to be back with us a little bit for stagecraft as well.

Thanks, Tom.

BROWN: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has started phoning the Democrats' undecided superdelegates, pressuring them to declare for either Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton by next week.

One of those uncommitted superdelegates is CNN political contributor Donna Brazile. She's also on the Democratic Rules Committee and will take part in Saturday's all-important meeting on Florida and Michigan.

And I should say she's not uncommitted unnecessarily, but undeclared at this point. And I spoke to her just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: You know, the voting ends on Tuesday. I mean, this thing is over. Democratic Party leaders have been saying that they want all the superdelegates to pick their horse by then. You are a superdelegate. What do you think will happen come Tuesday?

DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I'm not under the kind of pressure that perhaps members of Congress and maybe others are under. I'm under only one type of pressure.

And that is, I would like my vote to help unify the party, to bring the party together, to support the nominee, and to help the nominee this fall. But, clearly, Speaker Pelosi would like to see some of the congressional superdelegates and others come off the fence, so that we can quickly begin to prepare for the fall.

Look, there's a great deal at stake on the ballot this fall, not only the president of the United States, but also members of Congress, and I'm sure that the Speaker Pelosi and Majority Leader Reid would like to get this over with.

BROWN: So, when you will declare yourself?

BRAZILE: Well, I see no reason to make my announcement before Tuesday night at 11:00, when the voters in Montana have finally cast their ballots...

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: So, is that when it's going to be, Donna, Tuesday night at 11:00?

BRAZILE: Maybe 11:00, maybe a little bit later. Let's hope it's not like Indiana, where we have to spend -- stay there until 2:00 and get our cots out. But I hope that we can come to some fair resolution on Saturday, and that, some time next week, we can celebrate having the nominee for our party.

BROWN: All right, Donna Brazile, we look forward, then, whether it's Tuesday or maybe a little later, to hear from you, and find out what's going to happen. We appreciate it.

BRAZILE: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Still ahead; some shocking words from the pulpit of Barack Obama's church. And, no, it is not the Reverend Jeremiah Wright this time. It's another preacher. And the apologies have already started.

Also tonight, a major courtroom victory for members of the Texas polygamist sect. We have got all of that and more when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Hillary Clinton promised to take the Democratic presidential race down to the wire. Well, now, with only three primaries and a few days to go, the wire is in sight. On the one hand, the New York senator remains strong and defiant, but, on the other, her team is crafting the epilogue, planning her endgame.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): The smiles are still there, the warm handshakes and photo-ops, but, these days, the crowds are smaller, the cameras fewer, though Hillary Clinton keeps on going.

SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: A lot of people didn't want this campaign to keep going. They have been trying to tell me to stop running since January. And every time they say it, people rebuke it and keep voting for me. That's what I hope will happen here in South Dakota on Tuesday.

BROWN: She's like the Energizer Bunny, hours on the road.

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BROWN: New ads going up, even as time runs short.

MARK HALPERIN, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Hillary Clinton is doing her best to be the happy warrior out on the campaign trail, to look like she's trying to win. Really, what she's trying to do is frame the endgame in the most advantageous way she can for herself.

BROWN: More and more, her message is mixed, sometimes a swan song, possibly moving towards to a graceful exit...

CLINTON: I don't run for president to live in the White House again. I run because I believe that we can do so much better in our country.

BROWN: ... other times, pure defiance.

CLINTON: It's going down to the wire, because, where we stand right now, I lead in the popular vote. My opponent has a slight lead in delegates. So, this is by no means over.

BROWN: She has scaled back on attacking Barack Obama, perhaps not wanting to tarnish the likely Democratic nominee. Still, she couldn't resist an implicit zing today. As Obama deals with criticism he hasn't been to Iraq in a very long time, Clinton points out, she has.

CLINTON: I have the highest respect and regard for Senator McCain. He and I have actually gone to Iraq and Afghanistan together.

BROWN: One thing is very clear. For now, Clinton isn't going anywhere.

HALPERIN: She does not want to quit until everything is resolved, every state has voted, the Florida and Michigan controversies are dealt with, the superdelegates make up their minds. She wants to wait and see that through. But she is realistic and she knows, in all likelihood, even if everything goes her way in the next week, she's still going to fall short.

BROWN: One way or another, Hillary Clinton wants to get something out of this hard-fought campaign.

CLINTON: I'm running because I don't want to see our country, our values, our way of life, our standard of living erode.

BROWN: The only question is what.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: So, what are the possible endgame scenarios, if indeed Clinton is preparing for this big moment?

I'm going to bring in some of the best political observers on the planet. We have got Joan Walsh, editor in chief at Salon.com, Republican strategist Rick Wilson, and Chris Cillizza, who writes the political blog "The Fix" for WashingtonPost.com.

Chris, let me start with you.

Whatever the outcome from Saturday's DNC meeting or the final primaries, Hillary Clinton could still take this fight to the convention floor. How likely, though, is this at -- is that at this point in the game?

CHRIS CILLIZZA, "THE WASHINGTON POST": You know, Campbell, I don't think it's likely.

You're right. It's likely that Barack Obama is not going to reach that number to formally become the nominee on Tuesday, but as you mentioned before, Nancy Pelosi making phone calls, urging superdelegates to come out. I think they are going to come under a lot of pressure.

They no longer have the excuse to say, well, I want to wait until the process finishes itself out. The process is going to finish itself out here in five days. I think Pelosi, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, DNC chairman Howard Dean, they all want to bring this thing to a quick resolution.

And superdelegates, if they are going to come out, if the trend, what's happened so far, is any indication, they are going to come out overwhelmingly for Obama, and likely put him over that formal number he needs to become the nominee.

BROWN: And, Rick, as Chris just pointed out, with all of this pressure on the superdelegates to go ahead, make a decision, end this thing come Tuesday or Wednesday, what kind of damage would she do to herself politically over the long term if she were to stay in it?

RICK WILSON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, look, she wants to stay in it and fight until the last dog guy dies, but the reality is, the Clinton brand is being tarnished every day we go further into this process.

They have reached the point where Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton have become sort of an uncomfortable topic with Democrats. And I think you are going to see that, if it goes past -- Chris is right. In five days, it's done and done. And, at that point, she's going to have to make some really tough decisions, because their brand is starting to get -- is compromised by -- by her staying in. He's the de facto nominee. That's it. It's done.

BROWN: Joan, we have -- Rick may have a point here. We have seen a lot of stories over the last few days predicting that when Hillary Clinton returns to Washington as a full-time senator, that she's going to have a lot of repair work to do with fellow senators, with African-American leaders. How difficult do you think that transition will be for her?

JOAN WALSH, EDITOR IN CHIEF, SALON.COM: I don't expect it to be difficult for her at all, Campbell.

I think that she's won, let's say, roughly half the popular vote. I'm not going to give her Florida and Michigan until the DNC does, if they do, which they won't. But I'm not going to totally buy that talking point. But she's done extraordinarily well. She's shown an amazing capacity to raise money.

She's got a real constituency of women and seniors and working- class people that other Democrats will need. So, I think that these wounds will be healed and that she -- assuming she goes back to the Senate and doesn't pull out a miracle here, that she will be a great leader of the party. I really think people are kind of -- are overestimating the extent of the damage to the Clinton brand.

BROWN: Well, on that point, though, Chris, let me ask you. Give us the insider's perspective here. Hillary Clinton has been saying for a few weeks that, if she's not the nominee, she will work her heart out for Obama. So, how are we going to know the difference between lip service and real significant help for the Obama campaign?

CILLIZZA: Oh, I mean, I think it's sort of clear, and it will become clear over the next five months, Campbell.

Look, lip service is, she appears with him at one event, they shake hands, they hold their hands up high, oh, the ticket is united. Real work for him is being a surrogate in places where she can help. And she can. Joan is 100 percent right.

She can help in places like Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Florida. Senator Clinton has won a lot of votes and won a lot of states. Now, I believe she's almost certain to come up short here. But don't sell her short. She can be a useful surrogate. Barack Obama needs to use her. I think part of healing this rift, part of it is about Obama using her. Part of it is about Senator Clinton being willing to go out there, use her political cache to help elect someone to a job that we all know she would rather have.

BROWN: All right, stand by, guys. I know you guys are coming back later.

But, still ahead, you will hear why the apologies are coming thick and fast. Stand by for some of the shocking words from a priest who was giving a sermon in Barack Obama's church.

But, first, a behind-the-scenes look at the stagecraft when politicians go to Iraq.

This is the ELECTION CENTER.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: As you heard Michael Ware say earlier, there is a lot of theater that goes into an official visit to Baghdad. It goes far beyond logistics and security, all the way to the spin that the hosts might want to put on it.

So, what's to be gained by a visitor to Iraq, someone like, say, Barack Obama?

Well, Tom Foreman is back with the stagecraft of making a VIP in Baghdad look look presidential -- Tom.

FOREMAN: That's what it's all about, Campbell, isn't it?

Stagecraft on an actual battlefield, where Americans are fighting and dying is delicate business. So these trips by the president, presidential wannabes or other VIPs, are shrouded in secrecy, and they're carefully coordinated with the military.

And make no mistake about it. Visitors rarely get even closer to any of that actual fighting. They may be required to wear body armor, like John McCain has on here, or helmets. They are most frequently kept in relatively safe areas, like the famed Green Zone, right here in Baghdad. And it's all just part of being practical.

They need to comply, because heaven knows, the candidate is going to be in bad shape if he makes the silly risk and gets one of our troops injured. That's what this is all about, but the payoff is tremendous.

You want to be a commander in chief; nothing makes you look more the part than pictures with the troops, even if their fight is actually some distance away, Campbell.

BROWN: Though, Tom, it's not pure stagecraft because I have been to Iraq, and there is something to be gained. There's something to be gotten from talking to the troops who are there on the ground, don't you think?

FOREMAN: Yes, absolutely, there really is. This is different than a lot of other stagecraft because you're meeting with troops, you're walking the battlefield. I can tell you things, first, that you simply can't get from reports and numbers can never really match.

Second, it shows voters back home that these leaders are not afraid. They're willing to stand by the troops. It reassures the families.

And third, by meeting with our allies in the region, our political leaders are showing confidence in their abilities, too, Campbell.

BROWN: And, Tom, it does seem like this type of stagecraft could actually potentially have an impact on the war itself.

BROWN: It really can. And politicians have known this for a long, long time. Abraham Lincoln went to the battlefield at Antietam while the civil war was raging out there. Eisenhower went to Korea. And Johnson went to Vietnam. All to encourage our troops and defy our enemies.

It was good stagecraft back then, and it still is, Campbell.

BROWN: Fascinating. Tom Foreman for us tonight. Tom, thanks.

And we are watching a developing story. Barack Obama is apologizing for another preacher's shocking words from the pulpit of Obama's church. Obama has known this priest for years.

Also, in a Texas courtroom, a victory for members of a polygamist sect. Could it be a loss for hundreds of children? Stay with us. There's a lot more to come.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: A developing story we are following. Barack Obama is apologizing for another preacher's shocking words from the pulpit of Obama's church. Obama has known this priest for years now. We're going to have more on that ahead.

But first, Tom Foreman is back again. Can't get enough of him, with "The Briefing" from our newsroom -- Tom.

FOREMAN: Thanks, Campbell.

A ruling tonight may clear the way for the children of a Texas polygamist sect to return home. The Texas Supreme Court upheld a lower court decision which said state officials had no right to remove more than 400 children in the first place.

Barack Obama's doctors says the candidate is in excellent health. In a letter released by Obama's campaign doctor, David Scheiner, says Obama had excellent blood pressure and cholesterol at his last checkup 16 months ago. The campaign did not release Obama's actual health records, however.

Harvey Korman famous for his work on "The Carol Burnett Show" died today at UCLA Medical Center. The Emmy-winning star also made such films as "Blazing Saddles" and "High Anxiety." A talented and funny man, he was 81 years old.

And this monkey is operating a robot arm with his brain. University of Pittsburgh researchers implanted sensors in the animals' brains and taught them to mentally manipulate these robotic arms to feed themselves. The technology may one day help paralyzed people operate prosthetic limbs. An important technology and research going on there -- Campbell.

BROWN: All right, Tom Foreman, thanks.

Tom, again tonight. Thanks, Tom.

We may be only days away from the end of a political era in this country. Could this weekend actually be Bill Clinton's last hurrah? We've got that coming up, too.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: In Barack Obama's church, another man of the cloth caught on tape saying some pretty shocking things. You are about to hear part of a message Father Michael Pfleger delivered this past Sunday from the pulpit of Chicago's Trinity United Church, where Obama has been a member for more than 20 years.

Father Pfleger is a Catholic priest and a friend of Obama's controversial former pastor, Jeremiah Wright.

Let's listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. MICHAEL PFLEFER, KNOWN OBAMA MANY YEARS: When Hillary was crying and people said that was put on, I really don't believe it was put on. I really believe that she just always thought, this is mine. I'm Bill's wife, I'm white, and this is mine.

I just got to get up and step into the plate and then out of nowhere came, hey, I'm Barack Obama. And she said, oh, damn, where did you come from? I'm white! I'm entitled! There's a black man stealing my show!

She wasn't the only one crying. There were a whole lot of white people crying!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Wow. Now, tonight, Pfleger apologized, saying, "I regret the words I chose on Sunday. These words are inconsistent with Senator Obama's life and message, and I am deeply sorry if they offended Senator Clinton or anyone else who saw them."

In a statement, Senator Obama condemned the remarks saying, "I am deeply disappointed in Father's Pfleger's divisive, backward-looking rhetoric, which doesn't reflect the country I see or the desire of people across America to come together in common cause."

We want to bring back senior political correspondent Candy Crowley right now, who is in Chicago tonight.

And, Candy, what do we know about the relationship between Obama and Father Pfleger? How well do these guys know each other?

CROWLEY: Well, they have known each other for 20 years. It dates back to when Barack Obama was a community organizer on the south side of Chicago, where really churches were the base for that community organizing.

It was helping people who were transitioning out of closing steel mills into other jobs. It was trying to get life into some of the economically-depressed areas of the south side, and Father Pfleger is, in fact, does have his own church on the south side, and that's where he met him.

They know Jeremiah Wright. Pfleger is a long-time friend of Jesse Jackson, so they have all known each other. The relationship between Obama and Pfleger goes back 20 years.

Pfleger was up until a couple of weeks ago, and the campaign told me this, Pfleger was on some sort of faith committee for the campaign. I was told that he is no longer, as of a couple of weeks ago, but that person I spoke to didn't exactly know why. Pfleger also did go to Iowa for Barack Obama to head up an interfaith council meeting of some sort. So, they obviously do know each other and it does date back a couple decades.

BROWN: So, Candy, this is the second time now that Obama has had to reject words spoken from the pulpit of his church. How damaging is it?

CROWLEY: Well, you know, this is I think remarkably different from Jeremiah Wright, and here's why.

First of all, this was centered on race. We did not hear some of the really provocative, which seemed to many like anti-American statements of Reverend Wright, although obviously, Reverend Wright and those around him don't think so. But nonetheless, there was none of that.

There was also not this long, drawn-out process where Barack Obama first sort of said about Jeremiah Wright, well, you know, I can't disown him, or, you know, well, he's taken out of context. I mean, this was bam.

You know, he was right out there saying this is not what my campaign is about. I am disappointed by these remarks, and Father Pfleger was out there saying I'm sorry. This isn't what Barack Obama is about, and we didn't see that from Jeremiah Wright. He went out and said, well, he's saying these sorts of things because he's a politician.

So it seems to me that the first rule of politics has been followed here, which was get out there. Be sure to cut off whatever is going on and move forward. So I think this is different.

BROWN: All right, Candy Crowley again tonight.

Candy, thanks.

We're going to move on next to some breaking news. There is a new outbreak of tornadoes. And then a little bit later, could this weekend actually be Bill Clinton's last hurrah? That is coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We've got some breaking news coming to us now from south- central Nebraska. A civil emergency has been issued in Kearney after several tornadoes damaged buildings and downed trees and power lines. You're looking at live radar from the area right now.

The storms also caused a train derailment just outside of town. So far, there are no reports of injuries or fatalities. However, shelters are being set up around Kearney for anyone left homeless. Tornadoes are also reported tonight in nearby Aurora. We'll bring you more on that as the story develops.

Then coming up on "LARRY KING LIVE" at the top of the hour, the polygamist children in Texas may be able to go back home after nearly two months in state custody. Larry is with me right now.

Larry, what do you have tonight?

LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": You're right, Campbell. It appears that will happen because the Supreme Court of Texas has sided with the moms in that controversial polygamy case. What about the court of public opinion?

And Scott McClellan on the defensive today after excerpts from his scathing book about the Bush administration have now made the rounds. Two people who served as White House press secretaries are with us, Dee Dee Myers and Ari Fleischer. All on "LARRY KING LIVE" at the top of the hour, Campbell.

BROWN: All right, Larry, we'll see you then. Thanks.

Stay with us, everybody. Our next stop is Puerto Rico, where we're going to look at how the political master, former President Clinton, is handling his wife's potential loss.

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BROWN: As the primary season winds down and it appears Barack Obama will be the Democratic nominee, some of us wonder what it will mean for Clinton. No, not Hillary, Bill Clinton. No one fought harder for Hillary, but is this the way that he really wants to go out?

CNN's Jessica Yellin has been traveling with the Clinton campaign. She's in Puerto Rico for us tonight -- Jessica. JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Campbell, he was supposed to be Senator Clinton's biggest asset but it hasn't always worked out that way. Now, it certainly seems as though Bill Clinton is trying to win this one for his wife in the final days.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

YELLIN (voice-over): He's still got it. Walking through old San Juan this week, Bill Clinton was treated like a rock star and living up to his reputation as a political master.

WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You will never have a chance like this again, to send a message to the mainland about what the people of Puerto Rico care about. You will never have a chance to vote for someone who cares more, who has done more, and who will do more as president.

YELLIN: That's the Bill Clinton who was supposed to hit the trail and deliver the nomination for his wife. Charming, passionate, tireless. The world's best campaigner. But instead, the country saw this.

W. CLINTON: And what they care about is not going to be in the news coverage tonight, because you don't care about it. What you care about is this. And the Obama people know that. So they just spin you up on this, and you happily go along.

YELLIN: And often angry campaign partner, sometimes painfully off message.

W. CLINTON: Jesse Jackson won in South Carolina twice in '84 and '88, and he ran a good campaign and Senator Obama has run a good campaign.

YELLIN: This side of Bill Clinton surprised many, but not those who covered him during his White House years.

JOHN HARRIS, POLITICO: When he has grievances or resentment, he's not somebody that holds that in very well. If you listen to him long enough, you're going to hear that his real thoughts kind of comes spewing out, almost like a volcano.

YELLIN: Bill Clinton is also not used to losing presidential elections. And he seems to be taking the possible loss of this one seemingly inevitable nomination particularly hard.

W. CLINTON: I've never seen anything like it. I have never seen a candidate treated so disrespectfully just for running.

YELLIN: But could he be feeling disrespected, as well? He's fighting the perception that he lost his political Midas touch.

HARRIS: But the idea that he is the most successful Democrat, that he is the person that somehow cracked the code and knows how to make Democrats electable, I think we recognize that now that's a myth. YELLIN: And maybe that's why Bill Clinton more than anyone else doesn't want to let this one go, insisting Hillary still has a shot if she wins the popular vote.

W. CLINTON: It would prove that she's the popular choice of the Democrats. That's what it will prove.

YELLIN: And to this day, campaigning for hours at events like these, in small towns across America. Promoting the Clintons, both of them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And, Jessica, Bill Clinton has gotten burned by a couple of things he has said to the press. He pointed that out. So, how open is he these days and willing to engage?

YELLIN: Well, Campbell, I was able to get a question to him some months ago when we were in South Carolina, because I was on a rope line, and his answer created a firestorm, a news firestorm. And the folks who follow him regularly joke that after that experience, he was very carefully managed. The press was kept very far from him and not able to get to rope lines anymore.

That's been the story of the Clinton campaign. Since then, except, yesterday, he was here in San Juan, and I got a question to him. He took questions from the press regularly. And when he's got a camera in his face, he's very willing to talk. You just got to get there -- Campbell.

BROWN: Finding it hard to resist.

Jessica Yellin for us from Puerto Rico tonight. Jessica, thanks.

So, it's got to be tough. He can't be president anymore, and apparently he has failed to make her president.

So, just ahead, our panel talks about what is next for Bill Clinton. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

W. CLINTON: In every single electoral map I have seen, she is beating Senator McCain handily, and she is the only Democrat that is doing that today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: No one can accuse Bill Clinton of not fighting hard for his wife. But a fair question is, did he fight to the point of damaging his own future?

We're back with our political panel of experts. Republican strategist Rick Wilson, Salon.com's Joan Walsh, and "Washington Post" blogger Chris Cillizza.

So, overall, how do we rate Bill Clinton's role in this campaign this year, Chris?

CILLIZZA: You know, ups and downs, and I think that's sort of the life of Bill Clinton politically is that he is one of the most gifted communicators of our time. But he also has a side of him that has shown a lot more in this election that can be nasty, that can be a little bit petty, that can be angry.

You know, I think in the long run, this will be seen, and I mean the long, long run, not immediately after the election, but in the long run, this will be seen as a guy who was fighting as hard as he could for his wife who he believes very strongly in. I think he's got work to do to heal relationships.

Certainly in the black community. In other communities, as well, because he has been the attack dog for this campaign. And that is going to be hard.

Remember, he came into this campaign as sort of a humanitarian. He was raising money for various charities, natural disasters. That kind of thing.

BROWN: Right.

CILLIZZA: He's taken on a very different role in this campaign.

BROWN: And, Rick, as a Republican, are you sad to see the Clintons likely to leave the race in the next few weeks? Because as Chris pointed out, Bill Clinton, known as a master politician, but he did make his wife vulnerable.

WILSON: He is a complicated guy. He is a enormous -- as Chris said, he is an enormously charismatic guy, a great campaigner, fast- hitting figure in American politics, just like somebody in a Walker Percy novel. The guy is so complicated and so strange.

But you know, we will miss the Clintons when they're gone. But I don't think they're gone for good. I think Bill Clinton is going to try to reestablish his brand.

And frankly, they're still waiting for a little buyer's remorse to kick in here with the electorate. And, you know, he's going to keep playing his cards until they carry him out feet first someday.

BROWN: Joan, what do you think happens to Bill Clinton coming, you know, over the next few months? How difficult will it be for him to repair his reputation within the Democratic Party? Does this depend, in many ways the same as Hillary, how hard he's willing to work for Obama if he's the nominee?

WALSH: I think certainly if he goes out and campaigns, you know, passionately for Obama, that helps. I have a question about whether he'll do that, but we'll see. He's a Democrat. He wants the Democrats to win. (CROSSTALK)

BROWN: You don't think he will?

WALSH: I think he will, I think he will. But if anybody's bitter, if anybody's bitter, it's him.

BROWN: More so than her, you think?

WALSH: Yes, I do think so. And I think that's come out on the trail. And I think sometimes it's hurt her. But sometimes it's helped her.

Look, Campbell, he's right about the media coverage. She has been treated very badly, and you and I have talked about that before. So, in some ways, he's been a surrogate for her who has been able to voice those grievances, which in some ways has helped her.

It's hurt her in some ways. It's also brought her supporters. And he also helps her with, you know, the working class. They love her, partly because they love him.

So, he's had -- you know, his legacy has really helped her electorally. And I think legacies are a long-term thing, as we know. He will go back to his global work. He is beloved globally, and he has plenty of time to repair any damage he's done in the last few months.

BROWN: Quickly, Chris, we're almost out of time. But do you think that's where he'd headed? Back to the work he's been doing on poverty and other issues?

CILLIZZA: I do. And just as one quick example, Campbell, about the short political memory of people. Remember, in 2000, Al Gore lost. Democrats were disappointed.

In 2004, they tried to keep him from running. In 2008, they were begging him to run Al Gore...

BROWN: Yes.

CILLIZZA: ... become a global warming advocate (ph).

BROWN: Right.

CILLIZZA: In eight years, a lot can change.

BROWN: Very good point to end on.

OK. To Joan, Chris, to Rick, thanks a lot, you guys. Appreciate it. Have a great night.

CILLIZZA: Thank you.

BROWN: And that's it for me from the ELECTION CENTER tonight.

"LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.