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Campbell Brown
Obama Draws Huge Crowd in Berlin; Interview with Lance Armstrong; Interview with Charles Barkley
Aired July 24, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: And hi there, everybody.
Here it is, the picture of the day, no doubt going to irk some of those e-mailers that Kitty was just reading. Take a look at this -- 200,000 people turned out for Barack Obama's speech in Berlin. Looks pretty presidential. And that is no accident. This is the city where President Kennedy made one of his most famous speeches in 1963.
But Obama isn't president. And Obama said he was there as a citizen of the world and not as a candidate for president. But, of course, that is exactly why he was there.
So, was it smart for the candidate to take his show on the road? Or could this backfire on him back here at home? Well, the McCain camp had this response to the speech, saying that -- quote -- "John McCain has dedicated his life to serving, improving and protecting America. Barack Obama spent an afternoon talking about it."
Meanwhile, John McCain has an event of his own going on at this hour. He's speaking at a cancer summit in Columbus, Ohio, hosted by Tour de France cycling champ and cancer survivor Lance Armstrong. Lance Armstrong is going to join us live coming up in just a moment.
And then later we are going to preview tonight's installment of our documentary series "Black in America." I will talk tonight with Charles Barkley. He has been outspoken basketball Hall of Famer who has in the past called racism a cancer. And that is tonight in the ELECTION CENTER right now, no bias, no bull.
But we start tonight with Barack Obama's picture-perfect day, basking in the glow of Berlin sunset in front of the biggest crowd he's drawn anywhere in this campaign, people packed a mile back for the TV camera, stagecraft worth a thousand photo-ops.
But we want to know if it's going translate into votes back home.
Candy Crowley is joining me now from Berlin.
And, Candy, give us a sense as to what the reaction was there to Obama's speech.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I wouldn't say it was wild, but certainly it was receptive.
This was a crowd that really just wanted to come and see this young new politician that has seemed at least to have taken the U.S. by storm. They wanted to get sort of a feel for who he is. And that they did. But we also have to remember the audience out there that was also watching.
And that's the U.S. voter.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
C. CROWLEY (voice-over): In the heart of Berlin, where communism cracked and a wall crumbled, Barack Obama went global with his presidential campaign, calling for renewed U.S./European cooperation to confront mutual problems.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is the moment when we must defeat terror and dry up the well of extremism that supports it. This threat is real, and we cannot shrink from our responsibility to combat it. If we could create NATO to face down the Soviet Union, we can join in a new and global partnership to dismantle the networks that have struck in Madrid and Amman, in London and Bali, in Washington and New York.
C. CROWLEY: It was an event designed to evoke distant images of John F. Kennedy's "Ich bin ein Berliner" speech. Greeted by a massive flag-waving crowd, Obama strode solo on the stage to both court Europe and challenge it, to step up in Afghanistan.
OBAMA: America can't do this alone. The Afghan people need our troops and your troops, our support and your support to defeat the Taliban and al Qaeda, to develop their economy, and to help them rebuild their nation. We have too much at stake to turn back now.
C. CROWLEY: To help out in Iraq.
OBAMA: Despite -- despite past differences, this is the moment when the world should support the millions of Iraqis who seek to rebuild their lives, even as we pass responsibility to the Iraqi government and finally bring this war to a close.
C. CROWLEY: Despite repeated denials by his staff that this trip is not political, the event was staged like a political rally, paid for by the campaign and thematically in its call for a new way to move forward.
OBAMA: People of Berlin, people of the world, this is our moment. This is our time.
C. CROWLEY: This speech could just as easily have been delivered in St. Paul.
OBAMA: America, this is our moment.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Candy, Obama told reporters several times today this was not a political rally, that he was just a citizen making a speech.
But looking at the size of these cheering crowds, the production that went into this event, the campaign has got to be counting on this going a very long way toward reaching voters who were watching back at home.
C. CROWLEY: Oh, absolutely.
Listen, there were Obama signs here. There were American flags here. There was a band here. There was food here. This was -- had all the trappings, was set up very carefully to send a picture back home. And that picture is, here I am on the world stage. Here, I am the person that can restore what he calls on the campaign trail moral authority in the world for the United States.
The question is, when Americans sort of sift through all this and see what he said and look at the pictures, what's their reaction?
BROWN: Candy Crowley reporting tonight from Berlin -- Candy, as always, thanks.
John McCain's campaign put out a statement calling Obama's speech -- quote -- "a premature victory lap." Reporters asked McCain about the speech outside a German restaurant in Columbus, Ohio, where he had just had lunch with a group of small-business owners. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: In about half-an-hour, Senator Obama is going speak in Berlin. You're in front of a German restaurant.
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: Is just happy coincidence or are you trying to make a point?
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I would love to give a speech in Germany to -- a political speech, or a speech that maybe the German people would be interested in, but I would much prefer to do it as president of the United States, rather than as a candidate for the office of presidency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, is it sour grapes or does McCain have a point here?
We are going to bring in tonight's political panel tonight to hash this over, no bias, no bull.
With us tonight, CNN political analyst and radio talk show host Roland Martin in Chicago, just back from vacation, clean-shaven. I could go on and on, Roland. Michael Crowley is the senior editor of "The New Republic." He's here with me in New York, along with "Washington Times" deputy editorial page editor, Tara Wall, former senior adviser to the Republican National Committee as well.
Welcome to everybody, guys.
And, Tara, before we kind of get into the politics of this, obviously, it was a political event. But what did you think of the substance of what he said?
TARA WALL, DEPUTY EDITORIAL PAGE EDITOR, "THE WASHINGTON TIMES": I thought despite Republicans calling it rhetoric, Democrats saying it was eloquent, I thought was a fairly good speech. It went over well. It sounded well.
There was nothing earth-shattering there. But it was a good speech. He had some Reaganesque moments there where he talked about breaking down the wall, tearing the wall down between race and religion. I thought that was particularly poignant, given that he's in Europe, where a person like him of ethnic minority can't hold a leadership position, a position like which he is seeking. So, I thought that was pretty ironic.
BROWN: But tweaking George Bush moments as well, talking about the mistakes that America has made as well.
MICHAEL CROWLEY, SENIOR EDITOR, "THE NEW REPUBLIC": I think he struck and appropriate balance. He said we haven't been perfect. He had to be very careful of that.
In fact, as somebody noted earlier, the crowd cheered a little bit when he said that. And I think he wanted to move on and not let that moment linger for too long. But he made a big point of saying American ideals are still strong, and I believe in them, and I'm here to represent them, but to acknowledge that the last several years have been rocky. And I think that most Americans feel. So I think it was entirely appropriate.
BROWN: Roland, his critics are saying, can you believe the arrogance, that this was a speech that should only be given by a head of state, not a candidate running for office.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: If John McCain could have spoken to 100,000 people there, he would have done the same thing.
And so I think that is sour grapes. Look, when McCain went to Colombia, we knew what he was going for. It was a political trip. Today's speech, forget what Senator Barack Obama said. It was a political moment. We knew exactly what it was.
I think the most important thing that we also have to remember, though, is that we do have to recognize that we are a nation that has to have world partners. You cannot fight terrorism, you cannot fight in Iraq, you cannot fight in Afghanistan if you don't have other nations involved in it as well. And so Republicans can criticize it. But they would have loved to have their candidate do the exact same thing.
(CROSSTALK)
WALL: Well, he does have to be careful, though, in striking a balance. He doesn't want to seem -- in some cases, remember early on his trip, he was reminded several times that he's not in the White House yet. He's starting his transition team. He is sounding presidential. He has his campaign paying for the trip. He has to make sure that there's a balance between what can be confidence or presumption.
M. CROWLEY: That's true. But also remember this is a guy who was a state senator five years ago. And a lot of Americans want to know, is this guy up to the task of the global stage?
And I think a big part of what is happening here is establishing that, clearing that hurdle, and saying, I can really lead this country. And I think they will take the jibes about the rallies in Europe if Americans feel like this is a guy who can go overseas and really do us proud. And I think he's accomplished that.
BROWN: Go ahead, Roland.
MARTIN: And, Campbell, also, the American people, can we please stop acting like they're stupid?
John McCain talks about, when I'm president, I am going to do this, I want to do that. These politicians, Obama and McCain, put out policy positions and speeches and talking points every single day. They act as if they're the president. So, they do it.
Why do we sit here and play these little games by saying, well, you really shouldn't do that because you're not really president yet? We know that. The election hasn't happened yet.
(CROSSTALK)
WALL: The difference is being overseas.
(CROSSTALK)
WALL: And the presumption is -- look, again, it's a clear balance. There is a tradition that is set when you go overseas. And he has said that this is supposed listening tour. He's not there to set or make any policy.
(CROSSTALK)
M. CROWLEY: It's a presidential campaign. It's politics. People are so outraged.
(CROSSTALK)
WALL: He's not running for office in Europe.
(CROSSTALK)
M. CROWLEY: Our foreign policy is an essential part of the debate. And it's perfectly appropriate.
(CROSSTALK)
WALL: Exactly, but in the context of talking about foreign policy when you're here at home. These are the people he is talking to.
(CROSSTALK)
M. CROWLEY: .. one big international TV channel, as far as I'm concerned.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Quickly, Roland.
MARTIN: Focus on that point, the whole notion of well, he's speaking this in Europe, we have to have them as partners. We cannot combat terrorism, we cannot fight in Iraq and Afghanistan.
And the problem we're in now is that we did not do with this administration what his father did, and that is have world partners. So, let's stop playing this game that he's not running for president. We must have world partners to fight. You know this.
BROWN: OK, guys, stay with us. We have got a lot more to talk about, including John McCain opening up on his battle with cancer. This was at Lance Armstrong's cancer summit just a few moments ago. We are going to talk with Lance Armstrong live from Columbus, Ohio, right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: John McCain is in Columbus, Ohio, tonight speaking at the Livestrong Summit on cancer.
And here's what he said just a little while ago about Lance Armstrong.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCAIN: He knows what a difference it makes to have the support and love of others. For many thousands of people in the fight of their lives, Lance Armstrong is making all the difference in the world. And I'm honored to be in his company.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And, as you know, Lance beat cancer, went on to win the Tour de France seven years in a row.
The chairman and founder of Livestrong, the Lance Armstrong foundation, is joining me now to explain how the next president can help in the fight against cancer.
Welcome to you. Good to have you here.
LANCE ARMSTRONG, FORMER TOUR DE FRANCE WINNER: Thank you very much.
BROWN: And I know I don't have to tell you how difficult it is. Barack Obama didn't make it there to your event, because he was in Europe. These candidates have got a lot on their agenda, between talking about the economy and talking about the war in Iraq.
How hard has it been to get them to focus on your cause?
ARMSTRONG: Well, you know, it -- of course, there is a lot on their plate, as you just mentioned, not to mention the price of gasoline today, the economy, et cetera. Health care in general I think is a big debate.
Both candidates, I believe, care about this issue. Obviously, Senator McCain is a cancer survivor himself. Senator Obama I know is committed, after having lost his mother to this disease.
Listen, this is the number one killer in this country for people under the age of 85. The future commander in chief I believe will focus on it. And we had some pretty firm commitments tonight from Senator McCain. And I fully expect that Senator Obama will respond and let us know what he plans to do as the potential next president.
BROWN: And, Lance, like yourself, a lot of people may know, John McCain is a cancer survivor. Tonight, he spoke very briefly about that. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCAIN: But I was in a battle with melanoma. And I know, somewhat, at least to a small degree, how tough that battle can be. And, yes, I have become a fanatic. Yes, I admit it. When I see a woman with a child in the sun, I go over and say, get sunscreen on that child, please.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, do you expect more from him because of his experience?
ARMSTRONG: Obviously, yes.
I like to think that my fellow cancer survivors are committed to this disease. It may not obviously be his exclusive focus. And we know that, as a society and as a country, we have a lot of things that we have to address and ultimately try and fix. But this needs to be one of them.
The disease -- there's not one single American that can say this disease has not touched their lives. And it's an old disease. It's one we have talked about for a long time. And it's one that just slowly keeps ticking way. But I think that either candidate will do it. And I think that either candidate obviously should make it a priority.
BROWN: You have called this a moral and ethical issue more than a political one. Considering both candidates have very different health care balance, have you look at both of them, examined both of them? Do you think, given that perspective, does it matter which one ends up in the White House?
ARMSTRONG: Well, obviously, of course they have different health care plans and agendas and perspectives.
Interestingly, as a cancer survivor and a somebody that is really involved in this fight, I would love to say that I have those answers. I do know that the access to care piece, that piece of the cancer continuum, is the one that kills -- takes away 200,000 American lives every year.
If we simply treated the people in this country that needed it the most, but you know what, the color of their skin wasn't the right color, they didn't speak the right language, they weren't in the right income bracket, they didn't live in the right neighborhood, if we simply applied the medicine and the information and the technology and the care that we have to the people that need it the most, we would save hundreds of thousands of lives. So, that has to be focused under either -- has to be a priority under either administration.
BROWN: An incredibly important issue. And we appreciate you taking the time tonight to talk to us about it.
Lance Armstrong joining us tonight -- Lance, thanks.
ARMSTRONG: Thank you. Thank you.
BROWN: John McCain, we should mention, did get a little dig in at Barack Obama at tonight's Livestrong event. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCAIN: My opponent, of course, is traveling in Europe. And, tomorrow, his tour takes him to France. In a scene that Lance would recognize, a throng of adoring fans awaits Senator Obama in Paris. And that's just the American press.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: We're going talk with our political panel about this and a big change in the electoral map you're going want to know about.
This is the ELECTION CENTER.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The presidential race looking pretty volatile, according to the new CNN electoral map.
Two states, Minnesota, which had been leaning toward Obama, and New Mexico, which was leaning to McCain, have just moved into the tossup column. So, tonight, we have got 11 states now, the ones in yellow, all too close to call.
So, no bias, no bull, let's go back to the political panel, CNN political analyst Roland Martin, Michael Crowley of "The New Republic," and "The Washington Times"' Tara Wall.
Michael, John McCain has gained some ground in key battleground states that were leaning more towards Obama, Minnesota, Michigan, Colorado, and Wisconsin. This is where the economy is a major issue in all of these states. Why the shift?
M. CROWLEY: Well, something funny is happening in this race. The last 10 days, Barack Obama seems to have been blowing out McCain just on the pure media coverage. The pictures from this trip we were just discussing have been so perfect for Obama.
And, yet, if you look at the polls, he's not really pulling away. Now, in those polls that you mentioned specifically, one thing that voters said is that they might be siding with McCain more on his position on Iraq, stay in Iraq, stay the course. But the sands are shifting there. Now the Iraqi government is saying that they agree with Obama's plan. So, that rug might be getting pulled out from McCain. So, that may not last. If that was his ace in the hole, he might be losing it.
So, really, it's kind of murky and mysterious right now.
BROWN: And the big overall poll number, Tara -- this is from the CNN poll of polls -- 44 percent for Obama, 41 percent for McCain. We have been talking about nothing but Obama, this trip to Europe. All the attention he's getting, and he is only winning by a couple of points?
WALL: Well, I think part of that, too, is that this gives John McCain the opportunity to spend time in these states. As you have seen, he's been talking about the economy. He's been doing these town halls. He's been talking to real people.
They're getting an opportunity to actually hear and learn from the candidate, something that they don't have an opportunity to do with Barack Obama as he's overseas. They're hearing pictures and they're hearing sound bites, but John McCain is spending time with everyday people.
I think the other part of that is, John McCain is spending a lot of time and money in some of these very targeted areas, these specific areas where he's opening up campaign offices, running ads. And I think that's having an impact in those very, very vital states that are starting to turn his way. And independents have turned his way.
BROWN: So, Roland, all of the media love, is it going to translate into votes?
MARTIN: Campbell, look, this had nothing to do with who is traveling overseas and who is spending more time.
We have been a nation that has been split in the last three presidential campaigns. The national poll means nothing. This is about delegates. This is about Electoral College. It gets to 270. That's what it points to. This was always going be a close race. Why are we acting surprised by it?
Obama was never going to be six, eight, 10 points up. And so McCain has to talk economy, so it's no surprise there's a shift. I think we're going to see the ebb and flow, Campbell, back and forth especially after the convention. That's the key. Look, what happens after the convention, that's the key, eight weeks between the end of the convention and November 4.
WALL: Yes. I'm hearing the opposite.
I have heard folks say that Barack Obama should have done and should have been doing a lot better and the gap should be a lot of wider.
MARTIN: But it shouldn't.
WALL: Not a lot of folks expected it to be this close.
And there's still a lot of time out. I admit that this will ebb and flow and go back and forth. But, certainly, John McCain is having some resonance. He is getting through. Americans, yes, I wouldn't say divided, but Americans have very strong opinions. And these are very strong candidates who have varying views that are becoming much more apparent.
M. CROWLEY: I do think it's important to remember, though, Obama is winning, and winning by a statistically significant margin. It's not tied.
In many polls, it's five or six points.
BROWN: Right.
M. CROWLEY: But the thing I would be concerned about if I was the Obama campaign is, as I said, the last week or so has just been -- to use the Obama metaphor, swishing three-pointers like he did on the court when he was playing with the troops, and he's not -- doesn't seem to be pulling away. So, the question is, what is that gravitational pull that is keeping him toward the ground? And it's not clear. And I think that's a troubling mystery that they have to be worried about at the Chicago headquarters.
MARTIN: Actually, it is clear.
BROWN: Go ahead, Roland, quickly.
MARTIN: Actually, it is clear.
You have a 46-year-old candidate. You have a 71-year-old candidate, one who has state legislature experience, several years in the Senate, somebody who is far more experienced. There are more older voters in this nation than younger voters. So Obama has to get over that as well.
That's what you have going on here.
(CROSSTALK)
M. CROWLEY: And he's a newer name, so he has to convince people. So, that's what he's doing.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Right. That's the reality.
BROWN: OK, good point to end on.
Roland, Michael, Tara, thanks to everybody.
Right now, I do want to check in on our veepstakes.
Minnesota's Republican governor, Tim Pawlenty, called reporters to a gas station today to criticize Barack Obama and to praise John McCain. Well, Governor, you're not trying out for anything, are you?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. TIM PAWLENTY (R), MINNESOTA: I'm honored to have my name mentioned. I have just stopped engaging in the speculation, because I think it is largely speculation. And it just fuels more speculation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Well, he got that much right.
Governor Pawlenty's name is one of the hottest in our veepstakes game. Check it out. Go to our CNN.com/electioncenter, and click on the veepstakes link. Our game works like the stock market. Mitt Romney is the current leader on the Republican side, but Pawlenty's stock is on the rise. He's currently number two.
As for the Democrats, Kansas Governor Kathleen Sebelius now leading Senator Hillary Clinton.
We're going to shift our focus now tonight to our upcoming documentary, "CNN PRESENTS: Black in America."
Tonight, the problems that black men face, from real and perceived racial profiling by police, to the rewards and burdens of success. NBA Hall of Famer Charles Barkley is going be with us. And he has got a lot to say.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We're about half-an-hour away from part two of our groundbreaking documentary, "CNN Presents: Black in America."
Tonight's program focuses on black men. And we begin our preview with one man's story about himself, his son and the police.
In an Opinion Research poll for CNN and "Essence" magazine, 81 percent of African-Americans said that racism by police officers is common. Even when you're famous, it's still an issue.
Here's CNN special correspondent Soledad O'Brien.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is South Central L.A. In the 1980s, these streets were a symbol of racial hatred and gang warfare. The infamous Rodney King beating led to the deadliest riots in more than a century.
It's where actor and comedian D.L. Hughley grew up. He was a gang member in the notorious Bloods.
D.L. HUGHLEY, ACTOR/COMEDIAN: I never felt more a part of something, more connected, more powerful than I did when I was with this group. For my neighborhood, it was all about us looking out for us.
O'BRIEN: But Hughley got out when murder took the life of his cousin.
D.L. HUGHLEY: He lived in a crip neighborhood. Then some "Cats" (ph) killed him who happen to be "Bloods."
At that point I realized I didn't want the die and I don't want to kill anybody. And this wasn't real for me. This wasn't a real option for me.
O'BRIEN: Today, D.L. Hughley has achieved great success. But he believes as a black man, he's always a target of the police.
D.L. HUGHLEY: When you're black, your skin color is always in the equation.
O'BRIEN: An equation Hughley says where it doesn't matter how rich you are or how famous you are. It's something he tells his son Kyle daily.
D.L. HUGHLEY: He already knows and he has learned from the time he's 12 years old how to speak to the police, what to say, what not to say, to view the police differently than anybody else.
KYLE HUGHLEY, SON OF D.L. HUGHLEY: If they ask me a question that I'm not comfortable answering, I say, Officer, I respect your job, but I appreciate it if you just call my parents. And I'm not saying anything else.
D.L. HUGHLEY: And it's just sad that I've have to have those conversations with him.
O'BRIEN: Hughley tells the story of sending his son on an errand to a local jewelry store.
D.L. HUGHLEY: The security guard pulls a gun on my son. The jeweler calls me and said, oh, I'm so sorry. We didn't know who he was. We had just got rob and there were people that came in. And they look exactly the same way.
My son was going to get -- do exactly what I told him to do. He didn't do anything wrong. He's not a bad kid. That's how it happens, just like that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: We've got lots more to say about this as we count down to tonight's installment of "Black in America." Also, think about his, 60 percent of all black children grow up without a father in their home. We'll have one extended family story when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: As we preview tonight's "Black in America," we just heard how African-American men are often confronted by police even when they're doing nothing wrong. And our panel is ready to talk about that.
Actor, conservative commentator and author Joseph C. Phillips, is in Los Angeles for us tonight. Here with me in New York, truTV anchor and former public defender, Jami Floyd, along with Roland Fryer, professor of Economics at Harvard University, and CNN's Soledad O'Brien, in Chicago with us tonight as well.
Soledad, hi.
And Joseph, let me start with you out in L.A. Black people, four times as likely as white people to say that they've been treated unfairly by the police. D.L. Hughley says that he warns his son about it almost every day. Do you worry about that as a black man and as a father?
JOSEPH C. PHILLIPS, ACTOR: Well, I think, I do worry about it as father. And I absolutely believe it's prudent to have these kind of conversations with our sons about respecting authority. And these are the conversations that I have with my sons. I think it's the proper thing to do.
But I would ask D.L., does he also have conversations with his son about the proper clothing to wear when he goes in certain neighborhoods, less some knucklehead shoot his son because he had took offense at the color red or blue. The fact is that young black men in America have far more to fear from other young black men than they do from the police. Ninety-four percent of homicide victims had a black perpetrator was their murderer. So this --
BROWN: But let me -- go ahead, finish your thoughts. Sorry.
PHILLIPS: No, I think that's my point is that I don't disagree with D.L. in having these conversations. But I think that the reason we have them is not because I fear that the cops are a bunch of racist thugs but because it's proper that young people respect authority. It's proper for all of us to show respect for police officers, who often work under very stressful conditions.
BROWN: Right.
PHILLIPS: And we need to keep our cool, keep calm.
BROWN: Right.
PHILLIPS: Absolutely right what D.L.'s son said. Listen, officer, I would rather you call my parents.
BROWN: Right.
PHILLIPS: All of that is correct. All of it are the same conversations I have with my son.
BROWN: Let me -- let me get Jami's take on this because I know you say, Jami, it's not necessary the case that black people commit more crime, or at least it's not that simple. What do you think is the real issue here?
JAMI FLOYD, FORMER PUBLIC DEFENDER: Well, I agree with some of what Joseph says, and disagree with other things. I do think there is institutional racism in America and unfortunately, sometimes makes it way into our law enforcement offices and police department. And most black people in America have anecdotal experience to bear it out but statistics bear it out as well if you look at the ways in which crimes are charged, if you look at the ways in which drug crimes are prosecuted as against black people vis-a-vis white people.
And then if you look at conviction rates depending on who the victim is versus who the defendant is and what the jury looks like. This is our history in America. We've moved a long forward, but we have a lot to do. That doesn't mean that black people don't have work to do as well. We do.
We do have to have conversations with our sons and our daughters about how to behave appropriately in public in our community. White children should know how to address law enforcement as well. We should all know our rights to have a lawyer, to have a parent present.
BROWN: Right.
FLOYD: But that doesn't mean that we should ignore the racism that may be a part of the problem.
BROWN: And you say, Roland, I know that the numbers don't lie. Black men are much more likely to have run ins with police. Is it profiling?
ROLAND FRYER, HARVARD PROFESSOR: It could be. I think there are tow things going on here. Some of it could be. It eludes to the conversations we've had. Some of it could be prejudice and others of it could be statistical profiling.
What I want to do is figure out, you know, how much of it is prejudice and how much is profiling. And more than that, let's go beyond just describing the data. Let's figure out how we set up programs for police officers around the country so that we can police officers in a way that will stop the statistical profiling and the prejudice that we see.
BROWN: All right. We got to take a quick break. We'll come back and hear our thoughts from Soledad O'Brien who has put together this extraordinary documentary.
Up next, the sad truth about African-American men. Many of them are absentee dads. We're counting down tonight to "CNN Presents: Black in America."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Back to our preview of the CNN special presentation, "Black in America." And we want to look now at African-American fathers, their children and who is raising the kids.
CNN's Soledad O'Brien has a look at why so many of these dads are absentee parents.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHORUS: Happy birthday to you.
O'BRIEN (voice-over): Relatives and friends are celebrating Saliya's (ph) her first birthday.
CHORUS: Happy birthday to you.
O'BRIEN: But her father, Brandon, is nowhere to be found. His mother is upset.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is his daughter's first birthday.
O'BRIEN: His stepfather's lost patience.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm mad. This is his child and he's supposed to be there for her.
O'BRIEN: Saliya like so many black children in America today is being raised without a father, and she's not Brandon's only child. He had another baby last year, a son, Jayden (ph), with a different girlfriend. He's not raising him either. As the party winds down, Brandon finally shows up. Everybody was angry at Brandon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, the reason cause, because I was told different times. I was told --
O'BRIEN (on camera): People were calling you on the phone. People were wondering, where's Brandon?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. You know, I don't --
O'BRIEN: Wasn't your fault?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wasn't my fault.
O'BRIEN (voice-over): Brandon is not the first in his family to walk away from his responsibilities. His father walked out on him. And Brandon's mother, Tina, also knows what it's like to be raised by one parent. Her own father, Donald Gray (ph), fathered 10 kids but raised none of them. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What I believe has happened is generational because it's been passed down.
RON MINCY, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR: Non-marital child bearing has become a norm in the African-American community.
O'BRIEN: Columbia professor, Ron Mincy believes the problem is commitment. These men don't marry their baby's mothers, and those mothers have found a way to live without them.
Nearly 60 percent of all black children are growing up without a father in their home. But why?
MINCY: History has a lot to do with it. Slavery did do major damage to gender relationships in the African-American community. And in addition to that shock, we have had renewed shocks over time.
O'BRIEN: With so many black men dropping out of school, with the high unemployment rate and soaring rates of incarceration, Mincy believes even fewer black men have been able to take care of their children.
MINCY: It is very difficult in this society for a man to marry to sustain a family, to sustain a relationship with a woman, children, et cetera, if you can't fulfill the provider roles.
O'BRIEN: At our request, Brandon paid a visit to Sherida (ph) and baby Saliya.
Sherida is pregnant again. This time with twins from another boyfriend. The animosity and anger between them was obvious.
Did you contribute more?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
O'BRIEN (on camera): Would you let him do more?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I mean, I don't stop him from doing now. I mean, I know there are times when I have an attitude, you know, problem, but I have a reason to.
O'BRIEN: Can he be a good father if he tried? Can he be a good father?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think he could, but the thing is, will he?
O'BRIEN: Will you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, you know, it's -- yes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: When we come back, tonight's panel weighs in on the African-American family. And then a little bit later, former NBA Star Charles Barkley offers his insight on growing up, finding success as a black man in America. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: As we count down "CNN Presents: Black in America," let's look again at African-American fathers. As we just heard six out of 10 black children grow up in homes where dad is not there. And we want to bring back our panel to talk about it.
Joseph C. Phillips, Jami Floyd, Roland Fryer and CNN's Soledad O'Brien. And Soledad, you know, how hard is it? You talked to so many people. How hard is it for these men to break the cycle of absentee fathers? Did you hear -- did they talk about that? Did you hear a lot about that?
O'BRIEN: Yes, you know what's interesting to me was that a young man like Brandon is actually devastated by the fact that his own father wasn't around. And Saliya too, her father wasn't around. They're devastated by that, yet somehow they continue that cycle.
But I'll tell you for every single Brandon, there are other stories of great fathers who are African-American fathers, who are really, you know, stepping up and being wonderful fathers. So the point I think is have a balance and try to figure out how do you lead the younger people, the people who are bad fathers to sort of step up their game and figure out how to be good fathers because there's got to be a way to do it. You can't keep the generational problems continuing. It's bad for not only the black community. It's bad for America as a whole.
BROWN: Jami, I know you feel strongly about this. What do you think is the root of the problem?
FLOYD: Well, I do agree with the comment that was made by the Columbia professor that this really is a legacy of slaver, the family torn apart, black men ripped out of the home, sold off, and mothers left to raise what remained of the family. And black women learned to be very strong, very independent, and that's how we've gone on today.
And the legacy for the black men, of course, for many black men has been incarceration, has been dropout rates of 50 percent in some jurisdictions. I do think, though, what Soledad said, is so important. I know so many black men who are wonderful fathers, including my own father, 82 years old, who do not represent as we see black men represented too often in the media. And it's important to know that there's that part of the community where we have to be honest with ourselves, within our community about what we need to do differently going forward.
BROWN: And on that point, Joseph, let me ask you about this dialogue, because when prominent black men in our society, Barack Obama or Bill Cosby, have spoken out against deadbeat black fathers, it causes a lot of controversy. What do you make of that?
PHILLIPS: No, well, I disagree. I want to say a couple of things. First of all, it doesn't cause controversy. The majority of black people applaud Bill Cosby. They applauded and stood up for Barack Obama. As I traveled the country and I talk about these issues, black audiences applaud me. The people who don't like what Bill Cosby say are, forgive me, Dr. Fryer, but people with a lot of letters behind their names.
FLOYD: I got some letters, too.
PHILLIPS: I think that's -- the majority of black people support what Cosby is saying. But I wanted to go back to something that Jami said, which is that this is being a legacy of slavery.
The fact is that the illegitimacy rate was lower during Jim Crow. At a period when there was far more vicious racism in this country, black men still stood up. They honored their women with marriage. They took care of their business. They were protectors of the home, of the family...
BROWN: Right.
PHILLIPS: ... guardians of womanhood.
BROWN: All right.
PHILLIPS: This has changed over the time and I just want to add one last thing.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: We're almost out of time and I want Roland to have his answer.
PHILLIPS: I think that shame is a terrific motivator. Shame is a terrific motivator. And the idea that Brandon would be on television completely unaware of how embarrassing his situation is speaks volumes to me.
BROWN: OK. Let me -- let me --
PHILLIPS: Because he should be ashamed.
BROWN: OK, let me go to Roland on this. It's not just about the letters behind your name. But I know you're very --
FRYER: I like my letters, OK.
BROWN: You are very solution oriented, Roland.
PHILLIPS: I like your letters, too.
BROWN: I mean, you talked a lot about that last night, but this is a pretty entrenched problem.
FRYER: Let me say something. The plural form of the word "anecdote" is not data. What we need is data. We really don't know what's going on here. But I want to highlight one other piece.
We also need to display the images of black men who are raising children on their own and doing the best they can, like my father, for example.
I just talked to him tonight. He raised me on his own. We highlight Eric Kennedy last night. His father is doing the same thing. Let's get data and let's start showing other images.
BROWN: A very, very good point, and a good point to end on. Roland, thanks. To Joseph, to Jami and Soledad, as well, appreciate everyone's time tonight. Thanks so much.
Coming up in just a moment, NBA legend Charles Barkley gives me his take on the state of black America. We are counting down to tonight's "CNN Presents: Black in America."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We are only minutes away now from "CNN Presents: Black in America." And tonight's documentary focuses on black men. My next guest has been a role model for a generation of boys growing up. Charles Barkley played in the NBA for 16 seasons and made it to all the way to the basketball Hall of Fame, and he is now an NBA analyst for TNT. And he's joining me tonight. Welcome.
CHARLES BARKLEY, TNT NBA ANALYST: Thank you for having me.
BROWN: So you are rich, you are famous, you are hugely successful. In the context of what we've been talking about here tonight, what does it mean to you to be black in America right now?
BARKLEY: I just feel sadness. I feel sadness because black on black crime is going through the roof. We have more black men in prison than we do in college. At some point, hey, racism exists, is always going to exist, unfortunately, but at some point you got to draw a line in the sand. We have not drawn that line in the sand.
When I made my role model commercial back in the '80s, you know, it was really poignant and significant because schools are still segregated. And when I would go speak at white schools, I would say how many of you want to play in the NBA? You know what? Five percent would raise their hands.
BROWN: Right.
BARKLEY: I say, what do you want to do? I want to be a teacher, I want to be fireman, a policeman, doctor, lawyer, engineer. But when I go and speak at black schools, 95 percent of them would raise their hand. And that's why I made the role model commercial. I want young black kids to think about being doctors, lawyers, teachers, firemen and policemen and things like that.
BROWN: We talked about absentee fathers a little earlier and I know your dad wasn't around much when you grew up. How much of an effect did you think that had on you?
BARKLEY: Well, you know, it had a huge effect on me but I got a great mother and a great grandmother who really instilled in me work ethic and things like that. But, you know, we can sit here these two nights and talk about it. At some point, that's my favorite phrase, you got to draw a line in the sand. Your dad is not there, you are poor. But if you don't get your education and if you go around killing other black people, you're only making things worse.
Like, first of all, there is no right or wrong answer, but, if you are selling drugs in the black community, you're not taking care of your kids. They're not getting an education. You're going to -- you're just making the situation worse.
And you could blame "white America," you can blame other successful black people, but at some point, as a man, as a man, you got to say, you know what? I am going to take care of my kids and my family.
BROWN: But you've talked about this a lot. You've taken this very tough love, if you will kind of approach. And what you said and how you've spoken out about this. But you've also said here that the biggest cancer of your lifetime is racism. So how much of an effect is that having on people and holding people back?
BARKLEY: Well, racism is at the crux of this entire situation. But it's always going be there because a certain amount of white people and a certain amount of black people are always going to be racist.
But like -- you know, slavery did happen. It had a very huge detriment to black people. But like realistic though, older black people are the once who did all the "heavy lifting." These young black kids who are killing each other, who are not getting the education, they're making it worse.
Like older black people, you know, they should have a chip on their shoulder. I understand that. I accept that, but the problem we got in the black community now is the younger black people. That's our problem. They're killing each other at an unbelievable rate, and that brings great sadness to me. And they're not getting an education.
BROWN: We've only got about 20 seconds left, but I know you got a daughter.
BARKLEY: Yes.
BROWN: Are hopeful are you for her? If this is, as you say, a generational thing?
BARKLEY: Well, because of my mother and grandmother, I got great hopes. I got two younger brothers. I got four nieces. I just tell them, you got to make sure that they get their education. And, you know, black people, my people, used to have great pride, dignity and self-esteem. That's missing right now, period.
BROWN: Right.
Charles Barkley, it's great to have you here.
BARKLEY: Thank you for having me.
BROWN: Appreciate the time tonight.
BARKLEY: Anytime.
BROWN: CNN's special presentation "Black in America" begins in a few minutes. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: That's it from the ELECTION CENTER tonight.
"CNN Presents: Black in America" right now.
