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Campbell Brown

The Republican National Convention

Aired September 02, 2008 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: This is day two of the Republican National Convention. We're here at the Xcel Energy Center in St. Paul, Minnesota. Normally about 20,000 people can get inside to watch a hockey game, but they're here getting ready to celebrate Senator John McCain and Governor Sarah Palin.
We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer, reporting. We've got the best political team on television standing by. Campbell Brown is here, Welcome. You just got in from New York.

CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: I did?

BLITZER: We're going to have some fun over the next three days, an abbreviated Republican Convention. Gloria Borger is here, as she always is. Bill Bennett, our Republican strategist is here as well.

And we've got many more of our special analysts and experts standing by at the CNN Election Center, but I want to go right down to the floor right now. First of all, set the scene with Ed Henry. Ed, tell our viewers where you are and which delegation and what you're looking for.

ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, I'm in the Alaska delegation. Obviously going to be looking for a reaction to all these stories swirling around the vice presidential nominee, Sarah Palin. But also talking to a lot of delegates about tonight, which will be the final convention speech as president for George W. Bush. We've gotten some excerpts of that speech.

And in one he says, quote, "we live in a dangerous world and we need a president who understands the lessons of September 11th and to protect America we must stay on offense". The Obama camp is already responding to that trying to tie President Bush to John McCain.

And this is going to point up to the fact it's a very delicate balancing act for John McCain. He's had a complicated relationship with this president. He's trying to show his maverick credentials, but the Democrats are going to point out he's voted with the president a lot of the time, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Ed, stand by. Dana Bash is also on the floor right now. Dana, where are you?

DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're standing in between Massachusetts and Mississippi and we're actually going to be following a lot of the important delegations tonight like Texas and Connecticut, two of the states that are going to have some of their hometown sons, if you will, giving some speeches up on the podium.

But I have to tell you what I've been focusing on today is very interesting developments in Sarah Palin's saga, if you will, in that the McCain campaign today pushed back and pushed back hard on the idea that she wasn't vetted properly. I talked to a source familiar with those vetting processes. He said that she was not only asked some specific questions, some 70 questions, intimate questions even as specific as have you ever paid for sex to some other intense conversations, specifically about her teenage daughter's pregnancy before she was obviously selected.

This is something they insist they knew full well inside the vetting process about. That she was informed that she needed to talk about with her daughter and apparently she did before she was picked -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Dana is going to be with us throughout our coverage. Our analysts are also standing by at the CNN Election Center. All of them anxious to see what's going on here in St. Paul at the Republican National Convention. Jeff Toobin, as you can see, is there. Hilary Rosen, Leslie Sanchez, Carl Bernstein, and of course David Gergen.

Also here in the sky box way up in St. Paul, Donna Brazile and Roland Martin. There they are. They're having a good time. Let's go down to the podium, though first. Candy Crowley is getting ready for this convention. It was short yesterday. No music, we're hearing music already.

Because of Hurricane Gustav. We did hear from the first lady Laura Bush. We heard from Cindy McCain who would like to be the first lady. Tonight is a very different night because Gustav while it was horrible and terrible, it wasn't as bad as it could have been so the Republicans, Candy, decided they could get back to nominating a presidential and vice presidential candidate.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely and they're looking forward to it and after a couple of days of examination of John McCain's vice presidential selection, they would also like to shift the conversation a little bit tonight, is all about who is John McCain? The ways they're going about this is to have both Fred Thompson and Joe Lieberman, two men who know John McCain probably better than anyone else in public life to come here to vouch for him.

You mentioned George Bush. He will appear via satellite. A lot of people don't think that's a bad idea. If he had George Bush as planned come here on Monday night it would have been a Bush/Cheney night. And as you know, the president's approval ratings are very, very low at this point.

And McCain has been trying to put some distance between himself and the president, so a short speech from George Bush, in fact almost as the same length as Laura Bush who we'll see here again tonight. So in the end after four days of this convention we'll have heard more from Laura Bush than from George Bush.

That may not be a coincidence. Laura Bush remains the most popular person in the White House right now, Wolf.

BLITZER: Candy stand by, up on the podium as well. Let's run through the agenda, what we can expect over the next few hours on this day two of this Republican Convention. Tonight's agenda, Campbell, we're going to talk about this. This hour we expect the call to order and the national anthem, the invocation.

There will be video in member -- in memory of some GOP leaders. In the next hour, 8:00 p.m. Eastern we're going to hear from Minnesota Senator Norm Coleman, facing a tough challenge from Al Franken, the Democratic senatorial candidate.

We'll also get a profile of Bridget McCain's adoption. She's the young daughter of the McCains. In the 9:00 p.m. hour, 9:00 p.m. Eastern hour we'll hear from the first lady Laura Bush, as well as the president himself. He'll be addressing this convention from the White House via satellite.

Finally in the last hour in the 10:00 p.m. Eastern hour, former Senator Fred Thompson and the current senator, the Democrat turned Independent, Joe Lieberman, both of them will be the prime time speakers tonight. And Campbell, I want to get to all of that. But you know the music, we love the music at these conventions.

BROWN: I was wondering when you were going to...

BLITZER: I know Bill Bennett loves the music. This is Al Williams. He plays the saxophone. He plays the flute. He's a great jazz musician. It's really nice that the Republicans have some good music here, just as the Democrats did.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very hip.

BROWN: I was wondering if that was going to be the true test of who has a better convention for you.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Who had the better music.

BLITZER: The Democrats had excellent music. Bill Bennett will attest to that. They had very good music.

WILLIAM BENNETT, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Fabulous...

BLITZER: Let's see how the Republicans do. They only have three days to showcase their music.

BENNETT: Remember, we're Republicans. We don't have to be as good. We just have to be hip. A little bit hip.

BLITZER: Al Williams, very good.

BENNETT: That's hip. BLITZER: Maybe we can listen a little bit, but let's talk a little bit about what you're anticipating tonight.

BROWN: Well tonight is going to be a lot about the biography of John McCain. And I think sometimes we in the media have talked about the story and talked about the story, and heard the story so many times that we take it for granted. But so many Americans out there it is an extraordinary story of heroism.

And I'm sure they have come up with an exquisite way to tell the story tonight. I know Fred Thompson is going to be talking about his biography in his speech a little bit, which I think is a stroke of genius because Fred Thompson is and actor and he can certainly give us the drama that it deserves. And I'm sure they'll be videos as well.

But that being the focus, I think you know, as you all have been talking about, the hurricane certainly threw this convention into turmoil. And so you are missing what I think would have been a really interesting dynamic which is some of these young stars, these young Republican stars like Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal and Charlie Crist down in Florida who are having to be home because of the weather situation. This other hurricane you know headed toward Florida now, and so their presence is going to be sorely missed, I think, but tonight will be very moving no doubt.

BLITZER: I wouldn't be surprised and if they organized some sort of video hookup. Bobby Jindal, especially. Yesterday Governor Crist and the other -- the governor of Alabama, the governor of Mississippi, they had a chance to speak via videotape, satellite hookup. But Bobby Jindal, Gloria...

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

BLITZER: ... he's a rising -- he's only, what, 37...

BORGER: Yes.

BLITZER: ... years old, but by all accounts he's handled this hurricane in Louisiana very, very effectively.

BORGER: Yeah, he's clearly a rising star in the Republican Party, was supposed to give a very big speech here tonight. And I think the fact that he's down there doing a good job, very competent, is very important to John McCain and very important to the Republican Party because it shows that if you're running as a competent chief executive, which McCain is running as that it's very important that things were well done this time around.

And one thing on the biography of McCain, he's from a generation that doesn't like to talk about himself very much. He started to do that in this campaign a little bit more, so this is an opportunity for people to hear about John McCain from others because he really doesn't like to dwell on...

BLITZER: And briefly, Bill, you know we talked about the history of the Democratic Convention. This is the first time the Republicans are going to nominate a woman as a vice presidential running mate.

BENNETT: It's history and it's great history for the Republican Party. And two very interesting stories to be told. John McCain will be more comfortable having the story told about him. But you know the first thing I wrote in 1978 for "Newsweek," "Let's Bring Back Heroes". It was an essay. "Let's Bring Back Heroes".

They did a survey that year, the most popular person among young people was the drummer in Guess (ph). I remember that and I said we -- you know he's perfectly a fine guy as far as I know, but we can do better than that. This is a real life genuine, as we say, hero and it's a heck of a...

BLITZER: All right. Stand by, guys. Stand by. All of our analysts at the CNN Election Center at well. We're going to continue our coverage. Remember CNNpolitics.com. Everything behind the stage. You can see streamed live there. You get a lot more useful information as well, CNNpolitics.com. Let's take a quick commercial break, but as we do we'll listen to the beautiful music, extraordinary music of Al Williams (ph).

BROWN: I think the Republicans are winning...

BLITZER: Let's listen to this as we go to break.

BROWN: ... in the music contest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC)

BLITZER: Al Williams playing the saxophone, playing the flute as this second day of the Republican Convention gets going. Yesterday there was no music. Today there is music. There will also be some perhaps fireworks as the Republicans get ready to take on the Democratic ticket, Barack Obama and Joe Biden. John King is here with us. How much fireworks will there really be you think tonight?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Not that much tonight. I think Fred Thompson because it is his nature in his own way will work in a few digs at Barack Obama, but the first thing the Republicans want to do is remind people as you were discussing a few minutes ago about the story of John McCain.

Now implicit in that is that here's a guy who served his country in the military, has been in Washington, has what they believe to be superior national security foreign policy experience. They're trying to make the case before they criticize Barack Obama saying he doesn't have it.

They want to tell the American people we think our guy is a better man to lead the country at this moment. Then they'll get around to the Obama bashing. Don't worry about it.

BROWN: John, you did this long documentary on McCain. You traveled to Vietnam. You did so much research on this. What do you think is the one moment that's going to be the most compelling, the most telling for people when they hear his story tonight?

KING: Well it's a dangerous question, if you will, from the perspective of the McCain campaign because they do believe the most compelling thing is his childhood. His father and his grandfather were admirals in the Navy, so he comes from a tradition of service, very rare at this convention.

His two sons are here. Both are in the military. McCain does not like to talk about them. They are here for this convention. They are on leave from Annapolis. They're from the Marines. You'll see them here.

McCain wants to tell his story that, you know, some of you might think this is old-fashioned. Some of you might think this America doesn't exist anymore, but it exists for me. That public service, military service, but not just military service, is important to me. That's the story he wants to lay in first and then make the case based on my life, I think I'm better than the other guy.

BLITZER: Let me bring in David Gergen for a moment. David, it's interesting the point that John King brings out that Senator McCain has sons who are serving in the military. One of whom has already served in Iraq. Senator Biden's son, the attorney general of Delaware, is in the U.S. Army. He's about to be deployed to Iraq for a year with the Delaware National Guard.

And we heard from Sarah Palin, the governor of Alaska, the Republican vice presidential candidate. She has a son who's been deployed to Iraq as well. Do you remember a time when three of the four presidential and vice presidential candidates have had children serving in war?

Now we know Barack Obama's two little girls are way too young to be serving in the military, so he can't have that situation. But it's pretty extraordinary when you think about it.

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: It is. I think you probably have to go all the way back to World War II to find a situation like this, Wolf. And when you think about it at least three out of the four candidates have children in harm's way. You know, they probably make up what, 20, 25 percent of all the people who voted for this war in the United States Congress?

There were just you know about a dozen or so who had children in harm's way who voted for the war. Let me just say one word about John McCain as a human being. One of the reasons I respect him on the human level is I had a chance to interview him about a year ago in Aspen, Colorado and just before we went out there, he told me about the son who had signed up for the Marine Corps unexpectedly.

They thought he was going to go to -- go on to college. And you know most candidates would go out and brag on their son. And I asked him, Senator, do you want to go out and talk about this? Would you like to tell the world about it? And he said no, I don't. I really don't. I don't want to exploit him. I think this is a private family matter. Whatever else you may say about John McCain on his policies, and I disagree with a number of them, whatever else you may say about his policies, as a human being and as a public servant there is much to respect about this man. And I think we will hear more about this tonight and the next couple of nights.

BLITZER: I want to bring in James Carville right now. He's joining us from our Washington bureau. I suspect, James, correct me if I'm wrong, you agree with David Gergen.

JAMES CARVILLE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah, I agree with every word he said. And Senator McCain has a long, honorable family service. His grandfather, his father was an admiral. What he did in that prison camp by not coming out until the men who had been there longer than him came out. I know he's very proud of his son, Jimmy, who's in the Marine Corps.

(INAUDIBLE) outrank him. Jimmy was a Lance Corporal and now he's a corporal. But and the other son in Annapolis and he's very, very legitimately can point this out tonight and nobody denies it -- his service to this country in the military is deep felt and honorable and heroic, in fact.

BROWN: Let me go to Jeff Toobin for a quick second. And Jeff, I guess my question would be given that that's so much of the focus tonight, how do you -- the Republicans balance telling that story which is so important and so moving and without partisanship? But at the same time not waste an evening where they need to very much be on the attack outlining their concerns about Barack Obama.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: You know, I don't think they worry too much about the attack tonight. I think the story is, itself, so extraordinary. I mean all of us who follow politics are familiar with his years as a POW. But people out there in the real world aren't necessarily.

But there is kind of a paradox about these individual stories. One of the peculiarities of our politics in the last four elections the candidate with the better, more honorable military record lost. So we spend a lot of time talking about how much heroism matters, but voters are always looking forward. They're not looking back.

So this is an extraordinary story, but going back to 1992, '96, 2000 and 2004, whether it's George Bush Sr., Bob Dole, Al Gore or John Kerry, they all had impressive military stories correlaso (ph) so and they all lost.

BROWN: And Bill Bennett, does Jeff have a point there, that there needs to be an eye on the future?

BENNETT: Sure, but you know the thing about John McCain, one of the really interesting things when he's asked about the hardest part of his life, everybody thinks the answer is obvious. He doesn't say that. He says the Keating Five (ph) because my honor was in question. You know it wasn't physical suffering. It was... BLITZER: The Keating Five...

BENNETT: The Keating Five was a scandal. My brother was, I should say, (INAUDIBLE) special counsel investigating whether senators were linked up to Charles Keating is kind of a corrupt thing. McCain was found to be blameless, but the point was he said I went through five and a half years in a prison camp in Hanoi. That wasn't as hard as having my honor questioned. And what a lesson that is. That was the hardest thing for me.

BORGER: The other part of the biography, that experience, that searing (ph) experience having his honor questioned is also what turned him into the maverick that we know. Somebody who says he'll speak truth to power, who will go against his own party when he feels that it's the right thing to do. And in fact, it's that, that attracted him to Sarah Palin.

Because he sees her as a like-minded politician who will fight corruption and really be a reformer. And so that's a very important part of the McCain biography that we're going to hear tonight.

KING: And it's critically -- it ties in critically to Joe Lieberman's role tonight. Joe Lieberman's role tonight is not just to say I think John McCain is right on Iraq. Joe Lieberman's role is to look out in the country and say many of you voted for a ticket eight years ago that I was on that you think actually won the election.

Well I want you to think about voting Republican this time because when Barack Obama says he will change Washington, I think my friend, John McCain, actually will change Washington. Can reach across the aisle, will work with Democrats. And if you really want change, not just talk of change, but produce change in Washington, vote for my guy.

That's why Lieberman is very important to the narrative. And interesting to have a Democrat turned Independent in this hall, but his message is to the country. You want things to change in Washington, I think you better look at this guy, not the Democrats.

BLITZER: They're giving him a primetime speaking platform tonight, 10:00 p.m. Eastern. Joe Lieberman will be speaking, then all right. We're going to make sure you know we're here on the floor of the Republican National Convention in St. Paul, the Xcel Energy Center.

Just as we did last week at the Democratic Convention in Denver, we want to give you as much of a flavor, a feel of what it's like to attend a political convention and as a result coming up you'll see the "Star Spangled Banner", you'll listen to that.

The Pledge of Allegiance, the call to order. Some of the music, not only the political speeches, we want you to try to feel what we're feeling reporting on this convention. We did it last week. We're doing it again this week. I think you'll enjoy this process as a result whether you agree or disagree with some of the political statements you'll be hearing. We're going to continue our coverage right after this. Remember CNNpolitics.com is where you can get a lot more information. There's Al Williams (ph). He's performing on the flute, earlier on the saxophone. We'll listen to this music as we go to break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Welcome back, everybody, to our coverage of the Republican Convention in St. Paul, Minnesota. We're here in the convention hall. A little country western music now, Wolf.

BLITZER: They used to say at these Republican Conventions, Bill Bennett, you can correct us if I'm wrong, the music spanned all the way from country to western.

BENNETT: May I explain both to you and Campbell, it's country music. That's right.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why?

BLITZER: Whatever happened to...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Whatever happened to western?

BORGER: Because it's bigger than that.

BENNETT: That's right. It's bigger. It's the whole thing. It's...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love it. I love -- I'll be your guide.

BLITZER: All right. Good.

BENNETT: Yeah.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: There are a lot of Americans who like this...

BLITZER: I love this music.

BORGER: I do.

BENNETT: You're a good (INAUDIBLE).

BORGER: I do. I do.

BENNETT: I know you do.

BORGER: I do.

BENNETT: No, it's fantastic music. BROWN: Anyway, an exciting night here. The first real night having last night, obviously, been put on hold because of the hurricane. And so things are really kicking off tonight. They brought the music back. Gustav not being as strong a hurricane as many anticipated, and therefore, the Republicans are ready to start celebrating and getting excited about their nominee. And you are seeing the die hard delegates, Wolf, out there on the floor, the people who are really excited and really energized.

And many of these people extremely energized and excited about McCain's choice for vice president, Governor Sarah Palin. There has certainly been a lot of controversy surrounding the pick, but I don't think that's the case among the people on the floor. The delegates here who are extremely enthused and are certainly going to demonstrate that.

Let me go to New York and Leslie Sanchez who I believe is in New York. And Leslie, tell us what is at stake for Sarah Palin. When she takes the stage it will be tomorrow night, obviously, with so many Americans really hearing from her for the first time.

LESLIE SANCHEZ, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: It's a tremendous opportunity, Campbell. No doubt about that. People are waiting to hear, you know, what her vision is. Learn more about her character, even listening to her cadence, how she speaks. Does she sound like somebody like them? If you think about the Democratic Convention, the first part it's almost broken in two themes.

First was team, really identity and introducing the candidate and the second was theme. Where are you going in terms of your direction for your -- for the party and for the country? I think this is the first real snapshot people are going to get in terms of defining who Sarah Palin is in her own words and also seeing if she really is that reformer they're coming to believe she is.

BROWN: And Roland Martin, let me check in with you. I know you know you certainly discussed the issues that the McCain campaign is still facing, both with the media and with many of their own supporters about the vetting process, whether or not she's experienced enough to step into the job of commander in chief should something happen to John McCain.

ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, Campbell, I don't understand why they've all of a sudden tried to divert the message going really from the whole issue of experience to reform. They were very successful in attacking Senator Barack Obama with that particular message. But look, they have to turn the page. Let me also say this here and I'll be a little, you know, you know out of the ordinary because I'm not from D.C. I don't work in D.C.

This is also introducing John McCain to the rest of America. I think he made these broad assumption that all America knows John McCain knows his story. They don't. OK, I'm not -- again, I think a lot of Washington journalists might think that, but John McCain has to also tell the rest of America and we often forget that people just don't know him as well as we think they do. BLITZER: I want everybody to stand by. Because I want to take a quick commercial break. We have much more coming up. This convention is about to be brought to order. We're standing by for that. Much more of our coverage coming up from St. Paul right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The presentation of the colors beginning day two of this convention.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please remain standing for the national anthem and the invocation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please welcome from Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, Phillip Armade (ph), who will lead us in the national anthem.

(MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To offer tonight's invocation, please welcome from Waldswell, Georgia the chaplain colonel of the United States air force retired, the reverend Robert G. Certain.

REV. ROBERT G. CERTAIN: Let us pray. All mighty god, you have given us this good land for our heritage. We humbly pray we may prove ourselves the people mindful of your favor and glad to do your will. Bless our lands with sound learning and pure manners. We ask your special protection this day on all whose lives are disrupted and threatened by the storms that beset them along the gulf coast.

Bless the leaders of our land we may be a people at peace among ourselves and a blessing to other nations of the earth. To the president and members of the cabinet to governors of state, mayors of cities and to all the administrative authority grant wisdom and grace in the exercise of the duties. To senators and representatives and those who make our laws in states, cities, and towns give courage, wisdom and foresight to provide for the needs of all our people and to fulfill our obligations in the community of nations. To the judges and officers of our courts give understanding and integrity that human rights may be safe guarded and justice served.

To John McCain and Sarah Palin and to all the grand old party candidates for public office in this land give courage to face the riggers of the campaign, honesty and integrity to cast a vision of unity, progress, and liberty.

And finally, teach our people to rely on your strength and to accept the responsibilities to their fellow citizens. That they may put country first, elect trustworthy leaders and make wise decisions for the well-being of our society. That we may serve you faithfully in our generation and honor your wholly name. Your's is the kingdom, oh, lord. You're exerted as head above all. Amen.

BROWN: That leads to the official start of this convention. Let's go to Amy Holmes New York.

Amy, talk us through what the night is about. What they need to accomplish, what they want to accomplish here tonight.

AMY HOLMES, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: This night is for the Republican Party to show their unity, enthusiasm. We've been talking about this gap between Democrats and Republicans and by Palin's pick, no matter what people say about it has upped the enthusiasm for the base party Republicans who went all the way to St. Paul to support this ticket.

This is also -- it needs to be an opportunity for John McCain to put his stamp on the Republican Party. The McCain brand is doing much better than the Republican generic. He needs to take this party away from the George Bush eight years and talk about how he, John McCain, would be leading forward.

BROWN: James Carville, what do you think tonight we're going to see?

CARVILLE: I think we're going to see a lot of John McCain, the patriot, John McCain, the war hero, John McCain the man who served the country above all else. We're going to hear something about Governor Palin. The Republicans put on a good show. I mean, if you look at the whole same and everything, it looks pretty good. Looks remarkable. I think he'll have a really good three days here. They generally do.

BROWN: Let me go to -- let's see who else is in New York here. David Gergen, because you're a master at studying this, the stage craft of these events. You have many thoughts on the Democratic convention and their stage craft. I know it's just getting started and they have been dealt a blow by missing Monday. Talk us through what you've seen so far and based on the layout of the convention we've seen.

GERGEN: Sure, Campbell. Carl Bernstein is also here right beside me too. I'm waiting to hear what he has to say as well.

Let me say, Campbell, I think there's something fundamentally going on about this race. That is that the this was a race that was a referendum about Barack Obama only two weeks ago. Now with a series of events it's shifted so that the burden of proof really has moved over more and more to the McCain/Palin ticket. And they now are becoming the -- in effect there's a referendum on that ticket upon John McCain's judgment, upon who Sarah Palin is. There are many, many questions that surround this convention tonight.

So I think the larger challenge for the Republicans tonight is to regain the momentum, put themselves back on track, to reassert their arguments, to refresh people why it's so important from their perspective that Republicans retain the White House and retain the powers of the presidency. There's something -- from their point of view this could slip away from them. These poll numbers are moving south of them with most polls. I think this is a very, very big challenge for this convention. It's quite a serious challenge. They come here in a different place than they were two weeks ago.

Can they pull it off? Yes. As James Carville just said they're good at putting on conventions. They know how to do this. They have an appealing man in John McCain. Can they pull it together? I'm not sure. I think that's their challenge.

BROWN: Carl Bernstein, how do they do that? If the questions that are lingering out there have to do with Palin as a choice for the ticket. We're not going to hear from her tonight so how do they do that?

CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I'm not sure they can because John McCain who is widely admired outside his party has always been admired outside his party more than within it. The wrap on him has always been that he can be reckless. That's what his fellow Republicans have said and at the same time he's a figure of great appeal, of great talent, of great personal history. The question of Sarah Palin and how she was chosen and whether she is qualified to be vice president or president of the United States with almost no foreign policy expertise or experience. The question of whether McCain picked her without properly vetting her. That goes right to the question of his judgment which has always been the flip side of being a maverick, whether or not he's reckless.

What McCain and this convention have to do is come out and say, look, we are thoughtful. We have thought this thing through and present this vice presidential candidate in such a way she can convince the country with John McCain she's up to being vice president and en president of the United States. It's going to be very difficult beyond this immediate audience in St. Paul.

BROWN: Bill Bennett, you were changing your head there.

BENNETT: Despite my friends Carl and David, it's too early to be so gloomy. We're just starting. I mean the patient has died already? May we make our case? I mean, we would like to make our case.

Sarah Palin, let me give you a large perspective on her. She was announced, it was a huge surprise. People were knocked over. She took the stage, the podium, she did very well. People were blown over, particularly the base. Then a couple of days go by, the country in which we live, the world in which we live got inclinations of mortality of fallibility of mistakes. She's a mortal human being. How deep that mortality runs we'll find out in the next few days. It is still very early in this process.

And, again, I just would like the opportunity for the country to listen to the case that can be made. I agree that John McCain is above the party in terms of popularity. But there are some major themes that will be hit tonight and tomorrow night, the next night that will remind Americans of, you know, why we have Republicans in the White House from time to time.

BLITZER: Do you agree with Carl's point this is the flip side of being a maverick? That is was so surprising that we were all stunned especially people in Alaska they were so stunned?

BENNETT: Well John McCain has a way of doing this. Someone said, well, he stopped being a 72-year-old guy with white hair and became the fighter pilot and gambler again which is more interesting and more attractive. KING: Many believe he had to gamble. Even many people on this floor who were not for John McCain at the beginning of the race and have sparred with him over the years said, look, we're down 5 or 6 points in a election where we should be down 15 points, that he may be not our perfect Republican in their view but the one Republican who may be able to win this year.

On the Sarah Palin thing, this is one of those cases where those of us who live in Washington or New York sometimes are not in touch with people who made George Bush president twice. They know who Sarah Palin is. I'd hate to tell a lot of people out there but Christian conservatives in West Virginia, they have this thing call the internet. They talk about their heroes back and forth. Just like we go on blogs and look at things, they do too. They email each other. They knew her. Most of the grass roots activists actually know who she is even though she's from a far away place because they care about the issues she has been an activist on and they love her. Can she stand the scrutiny of the next 60 days? A very fair question.

BLITZER: Let me let Carl Bernstein weigh in. Carl, as you know there was a very active effort online in the Christian conservative blogs elsewhere to try to convince John McCain to go ahead and pick Sarah Palin. A lot of people weren't paying much attention. A lot of experts thought that was out of the question given her lack of experience of foreign policy, given the fact she wasn't widely known. Among the conservative base, the evangelicals, the conservatives, the social conservatives especially, there was an effort to try to convince him to go ahead and select her.

BERNSTEIN: There's no question. She's a hero to the conservative base. They've been energized by that. The question is that, though, whether those who were not part of that base, how are they going to react to it? It includes independents and it includes more moderate and Republicans. The answer is, we don't know.

I think one of the first big pieces on John McCain, 1999, "Vanity Fair" profile, very sympathetic piece. You can see it on my web site carlbernstein.com but what it goes to is this question of John McCain's character. If you read that piece through, what you see is how different he is in the year 2000 and 2008. Both in terms of the positions he's taking in his campaign, the contradictions between what he said then, what he says now. That is his problem coming out of this convention.

He does have this great story. And that's what we're going to see at the convention. But folding Sarah Palin into that story and after a campaign in which McCain's whole point has been to attack Barack Obama has not ready to lead and then have a vice president -- we're not even sure if she got a passport before 2007. We've been trying to get an answer to the question.

BROWN: Carl, I want to bring Tara Wall into this and I want to go back to the original question that Wolf asked about the enthusiasm of the base. I guess my question is, do you agree that is, you know, obviously it's a huge, hugely important element to this. But isn't the base, as we know it, the Christian conservatives, hasn't is shrunk a lot? I mean if you look at President Bush's poll numbers, and I'll ask Bill Bennett this in a minute because he's shaking his heads but are those numbers still there? Can you win an election if you're a Republican by just turning out the base or does he have to bring in independents and moderates?

TARA WALL, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Not just the base, just like Barack Obama can't win just with the black vote. I do think evangelicals although we say they have gotten smaller, quite frankly the issues have changed a bit and resolved. It is hard to define who the religious right or evangelical or value voters are. I think they are a lot broader than they have been described as of late. And certainly he does have to appeal to that base.

I think quite frankly he was more of a maverick, took more of risk in this case to kind of buck the trend going towards Mitt Romney, even a Mike Huckabee to say I'm going to buck the trend and go with my gut. We talked about this war hero. He went with his gut, his judgment, and quite frankly, you know, we have to remember the internet is good and bad in many ways. We're going to learn more for the next few weeks. Just as there are reports learning about who she is, there are erroneous reports learning about who she's not and some of that stuff had to be pulled back. So we have to be careful.

So far we know look, she's an American soccer mom who has a lot of the same problems and issues that strengths that every day people and everyday people and everyday moms bring. You can argue on experience, you can also argue on the Obama ticket you can argue the lack of having someone who is fresh and new in a Joe Biden more of the same independent inside Washington. I think we've got to give a little more time in vetting this out.

BROWN: Tara, I just want to go back to the original question I'm trying to focus on in the base. Explain who it is and if it has changed from 2000 to 2004. We saw the effort of Karl Rove in terms of how they turned out. It is different this year. Explain how.

BENNETT: It is different but I think the basics are the same. I agree with Tara except it's hockey mom, not soccer mom just again. It's a big country and a lot of different things. Everybody knows most important thing in elections is addition. When you're adding you've got to add to something. John McCain did not have the base a couple months ago. He's got the base now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three days ago he didn't.

BENNETT: He really had it on Friday.

BLITZER: Let me tell our viewers what they're seeing right now. They're taking an official class photo of the entire Excel Energy Center where this Republican convention in St. Paul is taking place. They have asked everyone to stay very, very still as they have a photographer someplace up there I assume very, very high up there taking this picture. People are looking in and they are paying attention and listening to what they're told and they're staying very, very still for this class photo. John King is looking at the magic map. He's not looking at the class photo right now. I want you to walk over to the magic map. We brought it here from Denver. I want you to walk through the politics. The Electoral College politics of this entire discussion we just heard.

KING: I can move now. The photo is over. I won't ruin the photo if I do.

Let's go over and take a look at some of the places. First, we'll go to the primary map. These are the 2000 Democratic primaries. One of the places Republicans think Sarah Palin could help John McCain, let's come down here and go right through there. Look at this light blue. That's Hillary Clinton in the primaries. OK. We're going to stop that right there and take the telestrator off.

We're going to go back to the last presidential election. Look at that. That's red down here. This is George W. Bush. When Bill Clinton won the presidency, he did well down here in southeast Ohio. Democrats need to win. This is where you will find Christian conservative base of the Republican Party, small town rural America. That's one place.

Let's take a different perspective by doing it this way and come out to the electoral map. We have talked a lot about this. One of the places Barack Obama wants to put in play is the state of Georgia, 15 electoral votes. We have it leaning Republican right now but Obama figures is if he can get high African-American turnout and Republican base turnout is down a little bit because they don't like John McCain, maybe he could get that state.

You also have the libertarian candidate, the former Republican Congressman Bob Barr. This is one place where Republicans think even though she's from far away Alaska, Sarah Palin helps John McCain with the evangelical base of the Republican Party. Keep that state red.

Here's another one, Wolf. We were just in Denver for the Democratic convention. We call it a tossup right now. In Colorado, the polls show a dead heat. You have Christian conservative base in the Colorado Springs area and you have hunters, fishermen, sportsmen, gun owners. That is an area where Sarah Palin could help the Republican ticket in that area. That's one state here.

Look at the state we're in right now, Minnesota. That's ten electoral photos votes. Again, a strong Christian conservative base in a 50/50 Democrat Republican tossup state, another place where if you have an energized Republican base it can make a difference.

There are others. Iowa, a state John McCain does not do well in because of his opposition to ethanol. It's a place where Sarah Palin could help. More of a long shot there.

This one here I would list this as critical. The birth place of the right to life movement, the state of Missouri. George Bush carried it twice because of an energized Republican base especially down in southern Ohio near the Arkansas border. This is critical place to test the appeal in the show me state with Sarah Palin.

The reason this is so significant is we'll talk about this, this will come down to John McCain and Barack Obama in the end. Just like the Democrats think Joe Biden can help in places like Scranton and Allentown, Pennsylvania, Republicans think that Sarah Palin can help with their base. And it's very important because of these ten gold states, seven of them were carried by George W. Bush last time. The Republicans are fighting in more of their basket if you will. Democrats have less to defend. So John McCain needs all the help he can get and energizing the base is his biggest problem right now. My question is if that's the case as you laid it out, why did he ever consider Joe Lieberman or Tom Ridge?

BORGER: Joe Lieberman is his heart, Campbell. Joe Lieberman is his friend. Joe Lieberman is someone when he gets on the campaign plane or the bus with John McCain calms him down. He loves to be around him. He admires him. He respects him. And I think although we don't know this for sure but our reporting shows that if he were just going to choose the fellow he really wanted to work with the most, it would have been Joe Lieberman.

KING: Just like Barack Obama might have chosen Tim Kaine if he could pick the guy he wanted. Barack Obama was unable to win the blue collar voters on his own sew went for Joe Biden. John McCain was unable to energize the base on his own so he went for Sarah Palin.

BORGER: They asked how would you react to Joe Lieberman pro choice Democrat and it got mixed. Someone had to go to John McCain and say you can't have it.

BLITZER: There would have been a disruption on the floor right now.

BENNETT: There's an interesting two sidedness that they love Joe Lieberman on foreign policy but they like him as a Democrat. His voting last time I looked at that time was 7% or 8%.

BROWN: Make him defense secretary but don't let him in the White House.

BENNETT: Remember the old southern strategy thing people used to talk about? I think there may be a kind of western strategy here. This is a western ticket, Arizona/Alaska. It underscores not just where the country is moving but how eastern is the Democrat ticket. Maybe we'll hear the argument in the next three days, this is an urban, eastern, somewhat intellectually pretentious ticket and then there's the rest of the country. There's a cultural underlying.

BLITZER: I want everybody to stand by. We have a big hour coming up here coming up next. We're going to be going down to the floor. They had a contest to see who would lead this convention in the pledge of allegiance. You'll find out together with all of us who the winner is. We'll watch all of this very, very closely.

Remember, Joe Lieberman will be speaking later tonight. Senator Fred Thompson, former senator from Tennessee is one of the features speakers as well. Let's not forget the president of the United States. He canceled his visit to St. Paul yesterday. He'll be speaking from the White House via satellite just in a little while. As will the first lady Laura Bush again. We'll continue our coverage from St. Paul right after this.

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BLITZER: This is the Republican National Convention here in St. Paul, Minnesota. This is day two of the Republican convention. I'm Wolf Blitzer along with Campbell Brown and the best political team on television. We're standing by for a tribute, the theme tonight is service.