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Campbell Brown
Ike Closes in on Texas; Trains Collide Near Los Angeles; A Look at Sarah Palin's Revealing Interview; Hurricane Hunter Flies Into the Eye of Ike
Aired September 12, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome, everybody.
Breaking news at this hour. Ike is huge, a Category 2 hurricane right now, but a 700-mile wide monster that on the maps looks big enough to swallow all of Texas. The government is warning that anybody still in Ike's path should find a safe place to hide.
Here's what we know right now. Ike is about 100 miles from Galveston, with steady winds of 110 miles an hour. It's expected to come ashore overnight.
Life and death dramas seem to be everywhere. Rescues like this one of a stranded driver being airlifted to safety, well, they have been going on four hours now. We're also watching a freighter that is stranded in the Gulf of Mexico right in Ike's path. There are 22 people on board that freighter. The Coast Guard tried a rescue earlier, and was not successful, and now the Coast Guard says it is too dangerous to try again.
Take a look. The size of this storm has stunned even veteran hurricane watchers. You can see it on the map. Ike takes up almost the entire northern half of the Gulf of Mexico. And here's a fact that we have all been talking about here. The likely storm surge is being compared to Katrina's.
If the water rises as high as forecasters are predicting, anyone in its path who can't get above 22 feet of fast-moving water will be washed away.
Right now, our people are on the ground all through the path of the storm. We are going to have the latest from them as it is happening tonight. And we want to remind you, if you have friends or family in the path of the storm, they can hear us on XM and Sirius Satellite Radio and watch us on the CNN Airport Network.
And, naturally, there is also big political news tonight, Sarah Palin on her support for the infamous Alaska bridge to nowhere. Here's what she told ABC's Charlie Gibson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLES GIBSON, ABC NEWS: But it's now pretty clearly documented. You supported that bridge before you opposed it. But you turned against it after Congress had basically pulled the plug on it.
Do you want to revise and extend your remarks.
GOV. SARAH PALIN (R-AK), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: It has always been an embarrassment. The abuse of the earmark process has been accepted in Congress. And that's what John McCain has fought. And that's what I joined him in fighting. It's been an embarrassment, not just Alaska's projects. But McCain gives example after example after example.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: We're going to have lots more on that tonight in the ELECTION CENTER.
We also have a little bit of breaking news to tell you about from California, a train crash near Los Angeles. You can see it there. We are going to have a live update for you shortly. A number of people injured in that crash.
But, first, let's go to Houston, which is now under a dusk-to-dawn curfew, as the people who have stayed behind get ready for Hurricane Ike. By morning, winds in downtown Houston, full of glass-covered skyscrapers, could reach 95 miles an hour.
Anderson Cooper is in Houston tonight.
Anderson, what's the latest?
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": Well, Campbell, it's literally the proverbial calm before the storm at this point.
As you know, people in Houston were told to basically shelter in place, to hunker down. We have seen long lines throughout the day and yesterday at gas stations, at supermarkets, at Wal-Mart and at Home Depot, people stocking up on supplies, waiting for whatever is going to come.
Now, we anticipate hurricane-force winds hitting the city of Houston, major metropolitan area, around 2:00 or 3:00 a.m. local time. And what kind of impact it's going to have is simply -- it's hard to predict.
You can see the Chase Tower behind me, that long tower. Now, during Hurricane Rita, it got hit pretty hard. A lot of those windows were lost. And the winds that we expect to suffer and experience tonight are going to be a lot stronger than those Hurricane Rita winds were.
So, this is really the first time a major metropolitan city has been hit by a storm this size since Hurricane Katrina. And a lot of people are just very closely watching, monitoring this storm. It's already, as you know, hitting the Galveston area, people just kind of waiting here, not sure what to expect.
It's not so much a surge or flooding that is the concern here in Houston. There's supposed to be a lot of rain, as much as 10 inches or so of rain. That is going to cause some flooding in low-lying areas around Houston. But it's the wind, that wind, potentially hurricane-force winds. Tropical-storm winds are expected in the next couple of hours, then the hurricane-force winds. And what kind of an impact that wind is going to have on all these skyscrapers, that is what we're going to be watching very carefully, Campbell.
BROWN: And, Anderson, I know they have mostly told people there to stay put. Explain why.
COOPER: Yes.
Well, basically, they just didn't want four-plus million people getting onto the highway, jamming up the roads. In Hurricane Rita, they had long -- it took more than 10 hours or so to drive to Dallas. They don't want the same situation. In that kind of situation, a lot of people are running out of gas on the side of the road, a lot of people getting into accidents on the side of the road. And you actually end up with fatalities on the road.
So, they told people, look, just stay in place, hunker down, get supplies, get ready, and hopefully, you know, just last as best you can through the storm. How long power outages are going to be for, nobody can tell. And that's something people have certainly been warned about.
BROWN: And what's the feeling, just generally, in terms of people that you have talked to? How worried are they? How bad do they think this could get?
COOPER: People are watching this thing very closely. There are some people who are still out right now. There's actually a bar around the corner that has a bunch of people kind of still hanging out, getting in some last drinks, if you can believe it, before this storm.
A lot of people have been cooped up all day long, just kind of watching television. You will see a couple people walking around, just trying to get some exercise, a lot of walking their dogs, trying to get exercise, Before the storm hits, because we have not seen any rain. We have not seen high winds at this point.
So, it's kind of a surreal feeling. You see the storm on television and you know it's close in Galveston. But, in Houston proper, we have not seen the impact yet. So, people are just kind of -- I would say the population is very well informed here. They're very well aware. Things seem coordinated in terms of the response so far.
And so they're just waiting to see what happens.
BROWN: All right, Anderson Cooper for us -- Anderson, I know we're going to check back in with you a little bit in the hour.
Anderson mentioned Galveston. Well, about 50 miles away on the coast is the county of Galveston and it is now under a curfew. Nobody can go out until dawn on Sunday.
Our Gary Tuchman is there for us.
And, Gary, the word went out, flee or face certain death. That was the warning there. But, as I understand it, only about 60 percent of the people have left.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, Campbell, that was an incredible warning. We haven't seen that kind of language exactly before where they're saying that everyone who lives in a one- or two-story one-family house near the coast faces certain death.
I'm a little wary of using the word certain. Nevertheless, it's a very dangerous situation. I think the percentage is higher. We talked to the mayor a short time ago, the mayor of Galveston, population 57,000.
And, by the way, this is the major road along the Gulf of Mexico. And you can see that's a 17-foot seawall. But it doesn't look like that water is 17 feet down, because indeed it's not. It's coming over the seawall. And much of this road is flooded.
But the mayor said yesterday, 40 percent of the people evacuated. She says today she's not exactly sure. But I have gone up and down these streets all throughout the day today. Almost every street is vacant. You see one or two families still home. I think most of the people have evacuated, most of the people are playing it smart -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right. Gary, describe to us what you guys are doing there, what your location is like. You're a little close to the seawall. Presumably, you're going to be moving soon. Where are you going? Are there areas of Galveston where people can get to that are protected in some form?
TUCHMAN: There are no shelters in Galveston. Anyone who was told to evacuate had to leave Galveston Island, which is 40 miles southeast of Houston.
We, as you might imagine, are not staying in a one- or two-story unit near this beach. I want to give you a look, Campbell, where we're staying. It's a very secure hotel. It almost looks like a fortress. And it's built on top of a hill. There's moats that protect it. It was built specifically to withstand dangerous hurricanes.
So, the members of the news media are staying here, also Galveston police, emergency operations officials. We feel very secure in this building. Obviously, nothing's ever a complete guarantee. But we're staying on high floors. This is not a Category 4 or 5, so the winds, while they're 110 miles per hour, they're serious, we don't expect serious wind damage.
The greatest risk we face, Campbell, to be honest with you, is we think that much of Galveston will be under water. We may be stuck here for awhile, but we're prepared for that, too, with food and water.
BROWN: OK. And, Gary, I'm being told that you are going to have to move in a minute. Explain why. What's going on?
TUCHMAN: Well, the situation now, since it's getting dark, there's a lot of refuse and debris that is blowing around, debris that I don't even recognize coming from the Gulf of Mexico next to me.
So when it gets dark out, it may be a little too risky for us to stand out there. This fact is, much of this road is flooded. This road here, this portion of the road here, this is called Seawall Boulevard in Galveston. This isn't flooded yet. And we have had this water coming over for hours now.
But obviously the conditions are deteriorating rapidly. This storm will be onshore, the eye of this hurricane probably right where I'm standing in a few hours. And once it gets dark here, it's probably a little too risky for us to stand out here with all this stuff flying around.
BROWN: All right, Gary Tuchman for us tonight -- Gary, we are going to come back to check in with you in a little while as well.
So, the big question tonight for thousands of people in the storm's path is a question of life and death. Where exactly is Hurricane Ike going to hit and when?
CNN severe weather expert Chad Myers is at our magic wall for us tonight with all the details.
So, give us the very latest, Chad. Where is it moving and when is it going to hit?
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, it's eight hours away now. So, that makes the cone very skinny and the opportunity for it to turn left and turn right very small at this point.
We do expect landfall of the eye very close to Galveston Island, maybe a little bit farther to the south, maybe up a little bit farther to the north. We will see. It does make a difference on how much of a storm surge gets into the bay.
If this turns to the north of the bay, there will be much less storm surge. But on its path right now, Campbell, I don't see that happening. And that's going to push all of this water, basically a bubble of water, maybe only two feet tall right now, but when you push it up the continental shelf and into a very shallow bay, all of that water has to go only into one small place. And that's where the surge comes from.
The bubble of water that's in deep water gets into shallow water and it multiplies and then that's how you get 20 or 30 feet worth of waves coming in, pounding on all of those buildings. We do expect 110 miles per hour at landfall later on tonight, probably somewhere between 2:00 and 4:00, 5:00 a.m. And that's going to be the case for right now.
BROWN: And, Chad, just tell us how it compares to Gustav, or even Katrina, to try to give us some perspective here.
MYERS: Good question. Gustav looks like it is going to be between $4 billion and $7 billion worth of damage. Here's what we have for our hurricane impact zone. This is actually from FEMA. They are now going with a total of $10 billion, so double almost the difference between where it was with Gustav.
But because of how much damage happened in Katrina, because of the flooding, you know, you can't take that number and compare it. This is going to knock down a lot of windows. It will knock out a lot of windows in downtown Houston. Houston is not going to be recognizable by tomorrow afternoon, I'm afraid, Campbell. And there's going to be a lot of money there.
BROWN: All right, Chad, we will be checking in with you once again in just a little bit as well for the very latest on all those other details. We're going to get back to you later.
We have already, as we mentioned, seen some dramatic rescues today. But one major rescue mission was aborted. A disabled freighter from Cyprus is floating helplessly about 90 miles southeast of Galveston right in the path of Hurricane Ike. There are 22 crew members on board. The U.S. Coast Guard and Air Force say it is too dangerous right now to try to rescue them.
One crewman tells CNN -- quote -- "We are in hell," but so far everyone on board is OK. They are going to have a very, very long night. We're going to keep track of that for you as well.
When we come back, more breaking news on storm preparations down in Texas. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We have more breaking news to tell you about out in California right now, where a commuter train has collided head on with a freight train. This is in Chatsworth, a suburb northwest of Los Angeles. Rescue crews still on the scene at this hour. Reports from our CNN affiliate KCAL say at least two people are dead. Nearly two dozen others are injured. A rescue operation under way at this hour.
Ted Rowlands is live in L.A. with the latest on that -- Ed.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Campbell, these pictures are dramatic. And this has been going on for the better part of an hour.
This collision took place about 4:20 local time here. And, since then, we have been watching this. And we have seen not only fire personnel first putting out a fire, but we have seen actual pedestrians and people, general civilians, going onto these trains and trying to pull people out of these cars, three cars in all, looks like three to four cars on this Metrolink train. That is a commuter train which services Los Angeles.
Apparently, it head-on collided with a freight train. In all, seven cars have been derailed. And, as you can see, there are still swarms of firefighters trying to get to these passengers, who like I say have been trapped for the better part of an hour. We have seen scores of injured people. You could see them laying out. Some are being treated right now. There is a helicopter on scene.
They're ferrying those that need it. According to the local sheriff's department there, 10 of the injuries right now have been categorized as critical. It is going to be a long night obviously here in Los Angeles, as they try to first get these people out as soon as possible. There was a blazing fire that was going for about 20 minutes. They were able to get that under control.
And now, they, as you can see, are getting into this train any way they can. They have been peeling back portions of it and getting to these people as soon as possible and getting medical help. We have seen a lot of these commuters getting off on their own volition, and sort of just laying down on the side of the train. A lot of them are still here.
We don't know what caused this. This is one track, two trains. Obviously, one of those trains was not supposed to be there. They will figure that out later. Right now, they're trying to get to these people and get to them quick.
BROWN: OK. Ted Rowlands -- Ted, appreciate it. Thanks.
We're going to go back to our other breaking story, Hurricane Ike bearing down on Texas. Residents by the tens of thousands ignored evacuation orders and are staying behind to face the worst. It can be really bad for them. In a moment, a closer look at who and what is in the storm's path.
Plus, no matter where you live, Ike could get you at the gas pump. We're going to explain why when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Here's another look at one of the many dramatic Coast Guard rescues happening along the Texas coast today. This camera is looking down from a helicopter. In the upper left side of your screen, you can see a pickup truck that was stranded out in the water.
Hurricane Ike being called a monster storm, but even that hasn't convinced a lot of people to get out of the way.
We asked Erica Hill to give us the facts about who and what is in the storm's path right now, and, frankly, what could be left in its wake.
What are we talking about here?
(CROSSTALK)
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: One of the ways to really help put this storm in perspective, monstrous, as you called it, is to take a look at numbers.
And if we start with just the number of people, we're talking nearly 15 million people in Ike's path. Now, in the Houston metro area alone, about 5.5 million people there. So far, almost a million people have been told to evacuate. But, of course, to get out, they need gas in their cars.
And get this. Shell says half of its gas stations between Galveston and Houston are completely out of fuel because of the demand from evacuees. Now, in Houston proper, the big concern there, high-rises. County officials warn that for every 100 feet above ground, that's about 10 stories, the wind speed increases by about 10 miles an hour.
Now, that could actually bump this hurricane up into the next category. And those high-rises are actually just some of the 4.5 million buildings which are in the storm's path. The major concern, though, with these tall buildings is glass. And that's because of Hurricane Alicia, which hit in 1983, shattering thousands of windows in these Houston skyscrapers, sending shards of glass flying through the air. And those missile-like shards ended up of course on the streets below.
But they were also responsible for some of the 21 Alicia-related deaths. Now, in response, building codes were changed. So, hopefully, there will not be as much damage this time around. We can tell you, though, the total storm damage in property and lost business is estimated to be as high as $15.3 billion. That is three times the damage caused by Hurricane Rita, and, Campbell, more than seven times the damage of Hurricane Alicia. No matter which way you slice it, it's not good.
BROWN: I know. No matter big it turns out to be, what a headache and what a cleanup the folks down there are going to have beginning Sunday or Monday. We will see what happens.
All right, Erica, thanks.
HILL: Yes.
BROWN: And even if you don't live in Texas or along the Gulf Coast, you may feel the effect of Hurricane Ike the next time you fill up. It turns out Ike is heading for one of the main areas where American refineries turn crude oil into gasoline.
All day long, senior business correspondent Ali Velshi has been keeping track of Baytown, Texas. That's just across the bay from Galveston. And he's joining us now with the details on that.
And, Ali, after that summer of high gas prices, they finally come down. Is Ike going to send those prices right back up?
ALI VELSHI, CNN SENIOR BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: It has already started. As Erica said, in this area in Texas, there are some shortages, obviously, at gas stations.
And you have seen some price increases. But we have started to see price increases reported across the country in different places. And it's just the beginning because we are here in the heartland of refining in the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VELSHI (voice-over): They look like sitting ducks out there, but the offshore oil platforms in the Gulf of Mexico are engineered to survive big hurricanes, though they do shut down and we lose days, if not weeks, of oil production.
But the onshore refineries that convert oil from those platforms into gas for your car are at huge risk. The good news is the refineries are unlikely to be blown apart. The bad news is, in order to produce the gasoline, they need to be dry and they need to have electricity. Hurricane Ike will likely knock out everyone's power and flood everything.
Texas is home to 26 refineries, many of them around Houston and Galveston. They account for about one-quarter of this country's oil refining capacity. By Friday afternoon, 13 of the 26 refineries in Texas had already shut down, protectively.
As for supply and demand and disruption in the supply of gas, wholesale gas prices spiked at nearly $5 a gallon today. And that's before the storm has even come on shore. Once the storm blows past, job one will be getting the refineries dried out, repaired and back online. The more repairs needed, the longer it takes. And that almost guarantees higher prices at the pump and maybe even spot shortages of gas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELSHI: Now, Campbell, let's be clear about spot shortages. Some of the gas stations in Texas, as Shell was telling us, are out of gas. If you're out of gas, they're not getting refilled again until at least Sunday morning.
Now, that is not why we have seen increases in other parts of the country. In North Carolina, we have had reports of gas over $5, and, in Florida, the government is even looking into that to see if that's a matter of price-gouging, because we haven't had problems with deliveries in the state of Florida -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right, Ali Velshi for us tonight -- Ali, thanks.
We do have some important political news to report tonight. Governor Sarah Palin opens up about her record on earmarks and the bridge to nowhere. We are going to bring you the latest excerpts of her first major sit-down interview. And our top-notch political panel weighs in on whether she passed her big test.
But we are also going back to Texas. We will check in with Gary Tuchman down in Galveston, where Hurricane Ike is already whipping the coast. Things are going from bad to worse.
We will have all the details. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: As we monitor Hurricane Ike, here in the ELECTION CENTER, we're also keeping an eye on the big political story of the day, Sarah Palin's revealing interview with ABC's Charles Gibson.
Sure to be one of today's most talked-about moments, this exchange on Governor Palin's multimillion-dollar earmark request to study, of all things, how crabs mate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, ABC NEWS)
GIBSON: Governor, this year, requested $3.2 million for researching the genetics of harbor seals, money to study the mating habits of crabs.
Isn't that exactly the kind of thing that John McCain is objecting to?
PALIN: Those requests, through our research divisions and fish and game and our wildlife departments and our universities, those research requests did come through that system, but wanting it to be in the light of day, not behind closed doors, with lobbyists making deals with Congress to stick things in there under the public radar, that's the abuse that we're going to stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: I want to bring in our political panel to talk about this big interview, CNN senior political analyst Gloria Borger joining us tonight, Jeffrey Toobin, also CNN senior political panelist, and CNN contributor Dana Milbank, a political columnist for "The Washington Post," here as well.
And, Gloria, before we get into that specific remark she made about earmarks -- we're going to talk about that in a minute -- I just want to get your general impression. Two days now we have been watching this interview. This was a huge test for Governor Palin. How do you think she's doing overall?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, politically, you know, you're going to see this through whatever you believe about Governor Palin, your own political prism.
But I have to say, from looking at these two interviews, first of all, Campbell, she seemed very uncomfortable to me. She seemed nervous. She seemed like somebody who had done an awful lot of cramming for the exam, who had a lot of bullet points written out.
She was repetitious as a result. On the substance on foreign policy, seemed the most uncomfortable, wasn't able to answer a question on Pakistan until the third try, if at all, questions about the Bush doctrine.
And, then, on the clip you just showed, you know, this is supposed to be her strong suit. And I think that there are still some questions about how devoted she became to earmarks until she became John McCain's running mate.
BROWN: You guys?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: Gloria Borger, total elitist.
(LAUGHTER)
TOOBIN: Total elitist. BROWN: Doesn't get it.
TOOBIN: Asking questions -- like, having to give factual answers, what is that? That's elitism.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: That's a fair point. People are going to say, oh, the media's out to get her anyway. That is what the Republicans are saying. They're blaming it on the media.
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: Who cares if people say that? I'm sorry. You have to be able to answer questions in politics. And words have meaning.
And for someone who has been nothing but, you know, pigging out at the trough of earmarks for her entire career to suddenly become an enemy of earmarks, I mean, it's insane. It just doesn't make any sense. And, fine, if she wants to run on other things -- and maybe she's a great governor, and perhaps she is -- but I think to pick earmarks is just -- it's just outrageous.
DANA MILBANK, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: I think everybody can agree, regardless of party, that, if she's going to be the vice president, she's going to have to learn to say nuclear, rather than "nucular."
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Why not continue the tradition of the last eight years?
MILBANK: We have had eight years, and you see exactly where this got us.
But it strikes me that she's wearing this as almost sort of a badge of honor, this sort of: I'm one of the people. I don't need to deal in the finer elements of politics there.
And it's a rather strange thing, because we're not hiring somebody for a prison work release program. This is for the vice presidency.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Hold on, Gloria, because I do want to talk about the specifics on the earmarks issue.
And let's listen to more of what she had to say. She has, of course, been repeating this mantra of, thanks, but no thanks, to the bridge for nowhere, that she's anti-earmark, a reformer in general. Those claims have come under pretty tight scrutiny, clearly, from this crowd. CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: She has, of course, been repeating this mantra of thanks, but no thanks to the bridge to nowhere, that she's anti-earmark reformer in general. Those claims have come under pretty tight scrutiny, clearly, from this crowd. John McCain was also asked about this this morning on "The View," and I just want to play what he had to say about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE VIEW")
BARBARA WALTERS, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": What is she going to reform specifically, senator?
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, first of all, earmark spending, which she vetoed half a billion dollars worth in the state of Alaska.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She also took some earmarks --
MCCAIN: No, not as governor she didn't. She vetoed -- well, look, the fact is that she was a reform governor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It's just not true. I mean, it's just not true what he's saying that she didn't take earmarks. Now, she may be a reform governor, but she did take earmarks.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: She has taken less than her predecessor.
TOOBIN: But he didn't say that.
BORGER: Let me just say that's the claim of the McCain campaign.
BROWN: But let's look at this, I mean, just back away for a minute. Purely a strategy. You're absolutely right, what he's saying is not true and yet as a strategy, does it matter?
DANA MILBANK, "THE WASHINGTON POST": To me, it looks like it's sort of the pathological liar character from "Saturday Night Live," over and over again, even quarrelling with the fact checkers who are checking him. But you know what? We can correct it on CNN and the "Washington Post," whatever. That doesn't necessarily matter.
You know, Mark Twain said, "A lie can get halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." And that's exactly what they're well aware of. He's going to be on to the next thing before you catch up.
TOOBIN: But you know, I'm sorry, we have an obligation to just do our best to try to get the truth out there. I don't care who wins. I don't care what strategy anybody's following. But I mean, we do have to just talk about what's true and what's not.
BROWN: Media elitist. (CROSSTALK)
Hey, look, better you be the punching bag to the McCain campaign than me.
Go ahead, Gloria, last word.
BORGER: You know, what is it? You're entitled to your opinion but not your own facts. And I think --
TOOBIN: Senator Moynihan.
BORGER: That's right, Senator Moynihan. And the point is, on earmarks, Alaska had last year, asked for $200 million of earmarks. You talk to people in the McCain campaign, they will say that that is less than in the past, that Governor Palin specifically did not ask for this. She gave her rationale.
But an earmark is an earmark and when you compare her to John McCain, that's the problem because John McCain is pure on this issue. He doesn't do it. He doesn't ask for earmarks, and he doesn't get any earmarks. So, she's not as pure as a running mate.
BROWN: OK, stand by. We've got more to talk about on this.
Coming up, more from her interview, some of the more specifics of what she had to say.
Also, Barack Obama, his campaign says he's ready to fight. But has some damage already been done here? We'll ask our panel.
We've got the latest breaking news on Hurricane Ike, when it will hit, where it will hit, just how bad the damage could be. We're going to check back in with the folks down in Galveston.
This is the ELECTION CENTER.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: As we continue to keep an eye on Hurricane Ike, we want to go back to the big political story of the day, Sarah Palin's revealing interview with Charles Gibson.
And back to talk about that again, the smartest minds in politics: Gloria Borger, Jeffrey Toobin and Dana Milbank.
And we know, guys, social conservatives, wild about Sarah Palin. She's staunchly anti-abortion rights, even in cases of rape and incest. Tonight, she told Charlie Gibson that she believes Roe v. Wade should be overturned. But let's listen to what else she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. SARAH PALIN (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What I want to do when elected vice president, with John McCain, hopefully be able to reach out and work with those who are on the other side of this issue, because I know that we can all agree on the need for and the desire for fewer abortions in America. And greater support for adoption, for other alternatives that women can and should be empowered to embrace, to allow that culture of life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, Gloria, fewer abortions in America. I mean, that could be Hillary Clinton, that could be Barack Obama.
BORGER: It has been
BROWN: Is this an attempt to sort of present a more moderate view on this?
BORGER: Sure. Absolutely. And it has been both of them. And people in Congress have been talking about that for years. This is clearly a way to reach out to those women voters that the McCain campaign is really trying to get right now, to reach out to those independent voters.
But as you said earlier, Campbell, in your comments, I think the hard thing to get away from is her positions on no exceptions for rape and incest. She's opposed to embryonic stem cell research, which by the way, John McCain supports. And he also supports abortion in those exceptional cases. So I think, again, you're back to the differences between John McCain and Sarah Palin on the social issues.
BROWN: Right.
BORGER: It's tough.
BROWN: We were talking earlier, yesterday's interview. The part of it that probably got the most attention, and we were in breaking news because of this hurricane so we didn't get to talk about it much, was she was asked if she knew what the Bush Doctrine was, and pretty clearly didn't, from the answer.
Some people said, you know, certainly her opponents, the Democrats said, there, see, she knows nothing. Republicans have said, who knows what the Bush Doctrine is anyway? How much does that matter, that one answer in particular?
MILBANK: Whatever the Bush Doctrine is probably we shouldn't be following it at this point.
TOOBIN: That's right.
MILBANK: That seems to be the judgment of the country at least.
BROWN: Bottom line it, right?
MILBANK: But it has sort of split everybody. She's a very polarizing figure, but I am astonished to some extent by the way people are rallying around her saying, she is like us. She's the common man. Therefore, we should vote for her. So ignorance in this sense is almost a strength here. We want somebody to look like us. At this rate --
TOOBIN: Not getting mired in the facts and the details.
MILBANK: No. At this rate, we're going to be looking for a candidate next time who doesn't quite have the --
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: But that worked for George Bush. This was the guy I want to have a beer with.
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: It worked for George Bush. It worked for --
Absolutely. It worked for Ronald Reagan. The thing that I thought was so interesting about the ABC interviews was that if you were someone predisposed to like her, you found plenty of reasons to like her more. If you were predisposed not to like her, you found plenty of reasons that you were right, too.
BROWN: Right.
TOOBIN: I don't think anyone has really changed in their perceptions of her. I think they were only hardened in their perception.
BORGER: And, Campbell, what she has really tapped into, and what she and John McCain have tapped into is this intense mistrust of government out there. This notion that if somebody is an outsider, they've got to be better than the people who are in Washington.
And, you know, that goes to Jeffrey's point, that those people who mistrust government so much are going to be attracted to her. Not because she doesn't know anything, but because she's from outside of Washington.
TOOBIN: And that's why governors are so much more successful presidential candidates than senators are.
BORGER: Right. Absolutely.
TOOBIN: You know, we're finally going to have a senator elected president for the first time since 1960 this time. But that outsider image is very helpful. Now, the question is, when does outsider become ignorant. That's the problem.
BORGER: But that's your political point. You know, whatever you believe politically is what you're going to believe.
BROWN: Except that you could argue Bill Clinton was an Arkansas governor, but when he met with editorial boards, when he sat down and did interviews, he was clearly very informed on the issues. And I don't think there are a number of governors who ran for president who have been in that same position.
TOOBIN: Absolutely. Ronald Reagan. BROWN: You had to be tested on that front because she's only done this one interview. Anyway, we got to leave it there. We're almost out of time. We are out of time for this segment.
But to Jeffrey, to Dana, and to Gloria, as always, thanks, guys. Appreciate it.
We have a lot more to come. We're going to go back to the hurricane now. We're going to head down to Galveston which is expecting to get hit just in the next couple of hours. Extreme danger down there at this hour.
Our Gary Tuchman still on the scene, going to have to move though very shortly. But we're going to get check in with him before he does. We'll come back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We have just made contact with the crew of a Hurricane Hunter. That is one of those planes that flies into the storm to try to get an accurate fix on the storm conditions and the direction. As we understand it, they have just exited the storm and are joining us by telephone from the plane.
And I have James McFadden of the National Oceanic Atmospheric Administration on the phone. Are you there, James?
VOICE OF: DR. JAMES D. MCFADDEN, HURRICANE HUNTER: Yes, I'm here, Campbell. How are you tonight?
BROWN: I'm wondering how you are. You just flew out of a hurricane. Tell us what happened.
MCFADDEN: Well, we're in the hurricane right at the moment. We're circling in the eye. We've made two penetrations so far tonight. We'll probably make six more before we go home.
And it hasn't been too bad as far as flying goes. But, of course, it's the people on the ground that we're most concerned about.
BROWN: Well, describe what it was like or what it's like now. I guess are you in -- you're clearly in a place where, you know, it's OK? You can speak to us. It doesn't seem to be that dangerous. Describe what it's like.
MCFADDEN: Yes. We're in the eye of the storm, Campbell, and it's smooth in here. And it's a fairly large eye, about 15 miles across. So we've got a little room to maneuver, and that's what we're doing right now.
We're doing a research mission out here for some folks. And we'll be out here until about midnight Eastern time, and then we'll be heading back to Tampa, which is our home base.
BROWN: Now, I know it's premature probably to be asking you this, but do you have any data at this point? Anything you can share with us about the size of the storm, or what we're really talking about here?
MCFADDEN: Well, the maximum winds that we've observed so far are in the eastern part of the storm and they were about 115 miles an hour. We did see some winds about 100 miles an hour off to the northwest. But for the most part, they are in the low -- in the upper 90s, low 100-mile-an-hour winds.
The storm is just about ready to go ashore in Galveston, as you know. And the folks there should be -- I hope they're all hunkered down for this because it's not going to be any fun for them.
BROWN: Just a final question, compare it to other hurricanes you've been in, in a plane, and measured. This one as bad as they say it's going to be?
MCFADDEN: Well, it's not the worst one I've ever been in for a long shot but all hurricanes are bad. This one is large. That's what makes it so bad. The extent of the high winds goes out for over 100 miles. And so, people all along the Louisiana and Texas coast are going to have to be ready for this.
There's going to be a lot of storm surge. There's going to be a lot of property damage. And it goes out, as I say, it extends out quite a distance from the center of the storm. That's what makes this one so bad.
BROWN: All right. Dr. James McFadden, Hurricane Hunter, joining us by phone, having just -- or having right now, as he described it to us, been in the eye of the storm at this hour. They're trying to get a fix on the conditions at this hour.
And, James, we appreciate your time. Thanks much for joining us.
We want to check in now with Rob Marciano, who is in Galveston with the very latest from there -- Rob.
ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Hi, Campbell. This is the worst we've seen it so far. The winds have picked up. The radar has picked up. The waves continue to pound this area where the safe spot we've been all day, but now it's dark. Not because the lights have gone out, the lights have not gone out yet. There have been power surges around town for sure, but for the most part at least power in this vicinity is still going.
What has not changed all day long is the direction of the wind. It has paralleled the coastline. My back to the wind, if you look left, that is where the center of the storm is. And because that has not changed, we know the storm is coming in our direction and it's got to go that way, making landfall right over us here in the next couple of hours.
Also, the gulf has -- hasn't come up much since the past few hours. Tides having a little bit of effect with that but really, high and low tide, the difference is only by a couple of feet. So we do expect the gulf to come in a little bit more as this storm gets a little bit closer to us, Campbell. But we are finally feeling the full brunt of this. We had several hours of just wind and waves and no rain. And now, we're getting the whole nine yards.
BROWN: Is there any concern, Rob, about that seawall holding? I know it's just been getting pounded all day.
MARCIANO: Well, it's seen a number of storms in its time. And I'm told it's built, the fortress of it is built by granite. So that's not going to go anywhere. In spots where we are, it's only about 10, 12 feet. There are other spots where it's actually 17 feet. So when you're talking about a surge that could be 15 or 20, it should easily get over that wall and onto where we're standing.
There are some high spots on the island and the folks that have stayed behind, and there are a number that have done that. I certainly hope that they have found refuge in a spot that is well above sea level by at least 20, if not 25 feet. And the structure they're in, I certainly hope can withstand 100-mile-an-hour winds because that could easily be what we've seen a couple of hours.
BROWN: And, Rob, certainly we hope you're getting to one of those locations as well. Meteorologist Rob Marciano for us tonight. Rob, take care out there.
We're going to have a lot more ahead on this storm. Coming up next, an update on this hour's other breaking story.
Also, a deadly commuter train collision near Los Angeles. We'll be right back with the details.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Still ahead, more of our breaking news coverage of Hurricane Ike. But there's also other news to tell you about tonight. Erica Hill with me now with "The Briefing" -- Erica.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Campbell, we want to update you on that train crash just outside of Los Angeles. We can now tell you at least two people are confirmed dead.
A commuter train and a freight train collided in Chatsworth, which is a northwest suburb of L.A. It happened at the beginning of rush hour. Several other passengers were injured. We'll continue to follow this for you throughout the night here on CNN.
An all-white jury will decide if O.J. Simpson gets life in prison on kidnapping and armed robbery charges. Prosecutors say Simpson and his gun-toting friends robbed memorabilia dealers in Las Vegas last year stealing Simpson-related sports merchandise. Simpson says he was simply taking back what is rightfully his.
A little more political tit for tat for you. This time, though, on a more international level involving U.S. ambassadors in Latin America.
First, Bolivia expelled Ambassador Philip Goldberg accusing him of encouraging opposition protests. Well, Venezuela forced out the American ambassador there in support of Bolivia. Today, the president of Honduras canceled a meeting with its new U.S. ambassador. And now in return, the U.S. has ordered both the Bolivian and Venezuelan ambassadors to leave Washington.
General Motors' CEO wants Congress to help his sputtering company, asking senators to support a $25 billion loan program. GM wants federal money to research new technologies and to build fuel efficient cars.
And it turns out tonight Virginia may be for spammers. The state Supreme Court struck down Virginia's top anti-spam law today. The case was filed by a spammer, sent to prison for sending up to 10 million e-mails a day. Virginia's attorney general plans to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right. Erica, thanks. Appreciate it.
Still ahead, we're going to have more from our crews down in Texas, waiting for a big hit from Hurricane Ike. We're watching Ike's every move. Stay with us for the latest as this monster storm heads for shore.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: CNN's breaking news coverage of Hurricane Ike continues on "LARRY KING LIVE" coming up in just a few minutes. And he has also got the big political story of the day. A lot of ground to cover tonight, Larry.
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Yes, we do, Campbell. Checking in on that scary situation there in Houston, with what can only be called a monster storm, Hurricane Ike.
It is Texas sized. Its effects coming ashore as we speak. The storm surge could be catastrophic, and we'll be discussing as well Sarah Palin's first big one-on-one interview. Weather, politics. Sometimes they co-mingle.
We're on top of it on "LARRY KING LIVE" Friday next.
BROWN: OK, Larry, thanks.
We want to go quickly back to Houston. It is, of course, right in the path of the storm. A lot of people there ignored the warnings to get out.
Anderson Cooper joining us again from Houston. And, Anderson, got to be a real sense of foreboding there tonight.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR, "AC 360": There is. I think people aren't really sure exactly what to expect. You know, they were told yesterday, today, don't go on the roads, don't try to evacuate. Just kind of shelter in place. That's really what a lot of people have been doing.
I flew in yesterday. The airports were pretty crowded. Those who were able to get out were trying to get out. We saw a lot of flights going, a lot of connecting flights holding, so people made sure to get their connections. But this is a city which is, you know, on the edge at this point. We are just starting to get a few drops of rain. The wind is slowly starting to pick up, but it is really nothing at this point.
We are watching what's happening in Galveston with great concern, seeing that storm surge. Here, though, the flooding isn't so much a worry, although from the storm surge, although we are expected to get many inches of rain, more than 10 inches of rain in some parts of metro Houston, that's definitely going to cause some flooding in low- lying areas. But again, it's the winds that are going to be a real problem.
And, again, as I showed you earlier, you look behind, that's the Chase Tower that got hit pretty hard during Hurricane Rita. We're expecting much stronger winds. This time lost a lot of windows in Rita. This time around we'll be watching that very closely all throughout our coverage tonight and into tomorrow morning.
It's expected there's going to be a lot of broken glass in Houston, a lot of damage. And you know -- as you know, Campbell, when the glass breaks, it just starts swirling in the air and that can really injure people. So people have been told to stay indoors as much as possible. You still see some people walking around, trying to take pictures, kind of get a last look around before the storm hits. But you can feel in the air this thing is coming and it's coming on pretty quick, Campbell.
BROWN: All right. Anderson Cooper, we will check back in with you later. You'll be on the air all night, I know. We're going to be back with the latest from Chad Myers in the CNN severe weather center in just a moment as well. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Look at this. This is a frightening situation.
Premature babies vulnerable, fragile. They were evacuated a few hours ago from a Galveston, Texas, hospital. Air ambulances flew 27 newborns to intensive care units in Fort Worth, San Antonio and Arkansas. Glad they got out of there.
We want to go quickly now to Chad Myers in the CNN severe weather center. And, Chad, just give us an update, what it looks like at this hour.
CHAD MYERS, CNN SEVERE WEATHER EXPERT: What's happening now, Campbell, is that the first real band is hitting Galveston Island. And you could see that in the reports from Galveston because they were in the rain. The reports out of Houston still dry. But every time one of these wraps around and hits you, it is going -- the winds are going to pick up significantly. And that's what's happening now as the storm continues to move toward Galveston.
The eye, about 45 to 50 miles across now. And there is an eye, it is right there. For a long time in the middle of the gulf, we didn't have an eye. Well, it developed today. That means it was getting stronger. So they upped it from 105 to 110. And 111 is a Category three. So who's splitting hairs here at this point in time? Nobody can tell the difference between 111 and 110 for a wind, and that's what's going to be hitting Galveston. And even Houston, 95-mile-per-hour winds in downtown Houston.
Anderson was right on the money when he said there's going to be an awful lot of damage to these windows. These windows are going to be blown out everywhere as the storm comes right through and up into the bay. The bay is also going to play an important role in storm surge, Campbell. Some of these estimates, 20 to 30 feet for water inundating the entire area that surrounds Galveston Bay. It is going to be a long night.
These things take a long time to move. There's going to be winds there for six hours over 80 miles per hour. And it's going to be a long, cold and also dark night -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right, Chad Myers. Anything on that piece of paper we need to know, Chad?
MYERS: Well, they just gave me the new 9:00 update here, so I might as well do it.
It is 70 miles to the southeast of Galveston. They kept the wind speed the same as moving northeast at 13 miles per hour.
BROWN: All right. Chad, we'll end it there because it is time to start Larry King.
Have a good weekend everybody.
