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Campbell Brown
Highlights of the Vice Presidential Debate; Bailout Plan Full of Pork?; John McCain's Big Move Out of Michigan; House Approves Bailout Bill; Who Won V.P. Debate?
Aired October 03, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, everybody.
Well, break out the champagne. The bailout we have all been told we cannot live without has finally passed. Now, this isn't the same bailout bill that the House rejected on Monday, oh, no, no, no, no, no. It is the one that the Senate passed on Wednesday, after adding roughly $150 billion in tax breaks for everything from wooden arrows to rum. Yes, apparently, there is a provision in there preserving a tax break on rum and even more tax breaks apparently for wool imports and wool research?
Yes, it is pretty outrageous. We are going to take a closer look at the list coming up in just a bit.
But, according to our leaders, it was all a very small price to pay. Here was the House majority leader insisting that Americans from coast to coast were demanding action.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. STENY HOYER (D-MD), MAJORITY LEADER: They have told us in the strongest terms, we expect the people's House to act in a way that they think best to save our economy, to protect our dreams, to make America whole again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Well, many people actually did, the final total, 263-171. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi wasted no time in sending the finished bill to the White House. President Bush wasted no time either, signing it into law at 2:48 this afternoon before heading out to his Texas ranch.
Ali Velshi is going to be here in a minute to tell us what exactly this means for you, your money and the economy in general.
But since this is the ELECTION CENTER, I do want to talk about the bailout's major impact on the presidential campaign. We are cutting through the bull.
Whether or not you agree with spending $700 billion on the bailout, plus another $150 billion on what looks like pork barrel goodies, one thing is for sure. And that is $850 billion we will not have to spend on those long lists of promises being made by the presidential candidates. Something has got to give. The money is just not there.
I know that. You know that. But our presidential and vice presidential candidates are not being straight with us about this reality. The vice presidential candidates got the question point- blank at last night's debate. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GWEN IFILL, MODERATOR: Given the events of the week, the bailout plan, all of this, what promises have you and your campaigns made to the American people that you're not going to be able to keep?
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D-DE), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Well, the one thing we might have to slow down is a commitment we made to double foreign assistance. We'll probably have to slow that down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Now, that was all he said. Senator Biden, we actually looked that up. The U.S. spends about $23 billion a year on foreign aid right now. And, granted, I'm pretty terrible at math, but I'm pretty sure that $850 billion minus $23 billion still leaves you pretty deep in the hole.
So, how about Governor Palin? What did she have to say?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IFILL: Governor?
GOV. SARAH PALIN (R-AK), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Well, the nice thing about running with John McCain is I can assure you he doesn't tell one thing to one group and then turns around and tells something else to another group, including his plans that will make this bailout plan, this rescue plan, even better.
I want to go back to the energy plan, though, because...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: OK. So, that was basically a useless answer. She completely dodged the question. I wish I could tell you the presidential candidates were more forthcoming. They're not.
Here is Barack Obama's answer, and he's been telling crowds pretty much the same thing in every speech.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: People have asked me whether the size of the plan that Congress is voting on, together with the weakening economy, means that the next president will have to scale back his agenda.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: And there is no doubt that some programs or policies that I have proposed on the campaign trail may require more time to achieve.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: The answer is yes and no.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Whatever that means. Obama then apparently launches into a long list of things he won't cut, health care reform, better schools, making college more affordable.
You're not going to give us an answer, apparently, Senator. And if Obama isn't being specific, well, John McCain was pretty vague when the question came up during last week's presidential debate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Look, we, no matter what, we've got to cut spending. First of all, by the way, I would eliminate ethanol subsidies. How about a spending freeze on everything but defense, Veteran Affairs and entitlement programs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: A spending freeze. It sounds great in theory. Financial experts, though, say, when you throw Senator McCain's promised tax cuts into the mix, and the fact that we're now fighting two wars, the numbers don't even come close to adding up.
So, to both of our presidential candidates, please stop treating us like we are idiots. We know the country is in real trouble right now. We know you cannot do all the things you are promising. Cut out the bull. Prioritize your goals. And tell us honestly what you are going to do.
And that brings us back now to the reason why we are in another $850 billion hole, today's bailout, of course. That's what we are going to talk about now.
Congressional correspondent Jessica Yellin was on Capitol Hill for today's big vote.
And, Jessica, from what we were hearing, it was pretty chaotic up there today. Just take us through the day.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: When folks showed up for work here this morning, no one was certain, Campbell, if this bill was even going to pass, if it would even come to the floor as planned. There was -- all morning, everyone was running around vote- counting, as members announced they were changing their positions, some on the floor, some outside the floor in what is called the speaker's lobby, sometimes in closed caucus rooms, and reporters would have to chase members down the hallway, saying, how are you going to vote, sir, or how are you going to vote, ma'am? A real sense of uncertainty.
As this vote started, even leadership, they felt they had the votes, but they weren't sure, because they were so surprised by the failure on Monday. So, there was enormous tension as this vote was proceeding -- a huge, huge sense of relief here tonight -- Campbell.
BROWN: And, Jessica, today everybody pretty much trashing this bill, even if they supported it, whether they voted for or against it. Let's listen to some of what we heard today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: When this bill passes today, remember those words, in God we trust, because we're going to need help.
REP. BRAD SHERMAN (D), CALIFORNIA: Wall Street wants the $700 billion so bad, they can taste it. To get it, they need two things. First, you create panic. Then you block alternatives. And then you herd the stampeding cattle toward passing a bad bill.
REP. DAVID DREIER (R), CALIFORNIA: I have ultimately concluded that this bill is a necessary evil.
REP. MIKE PENCE (R), INDIANA: There are no easy answers, but the American people deserve to know there were alternatives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, Jessica, anybody happy with this bill?
YELLIN: There's always an outlier, but we have yet to find the person who would be happy with this.
I think Boehner summed it up when he called it a mud sandwich earlier in the week. No one likes it. They felt they had to act, for fear of what could happen if they didn't, enormous sense of outrage and anger with the Bush administration, especially Secretary Paulson, for putting this before them with such a sense of panic and a sense that there's no time, they have to act immediately, without deliberation.
All they're saying now, though, is they want to follow this up with hearings and new regulations that will prevent something similar from happening in the future. It's the best they can offer now -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right, Jessica Yellin for us tonight -- Jessica, thanks. So, how did Wall Street react to the big bailout? Well, take a look. Anticipating the bailout would pass, investors pushed the Dow about 300 points higher by the time lawmakers started voting.
Apparently, we don't -- oh, there we go. We do have the graphic. It was all downhill from there, though. Not only did the 300-point gain evaporate. The Dow actually closed 157 points lower. Well, there's gratitude for you.
Senior business correspondent Ali Velshi spent the day at the Chicago Board of Trade, another very important marketplace.
And, Ali, we heard all the financial experts, including you, say how desperately we need this bailout plan. But you just saw that the Dow closed down today. What's going on?
ALI VELSHI, CNN SENIOR BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: I came to Chicago because I thought maybe you guys wouldn't be able to find me, because these are one of those days where you want to be able to say, what happened?
Let me tell you what happened. We got this bailout that everybody thought they needed so badly. And I think reality finally set in that we had major other problems now. So, the bailout is a backstop to a problem in the financial markets. But we also found out that we lost a lot of jobs in September -- 158,000 -- 159,000 jobs were lost in September. That's the worst we have seen all year.
Look at that graph. The total when you come take January all the way to September is 760,000 jobs lost in America. And as you and I have talked about many times, Campbell, jobs is the biggest problem here. It's bigger than housing and it's bigger than energy prices, 760,000. This bailout doesn't necessarily do anything to start creating jobs, doesn't increase the price of houses.
The only good news here is that, with all of this talk of bailout and deeper recession, oil prices are down. But I think markets were now looking forward to say, OK, we got the bailout. What else is on our plate? And it doesn't look very good.
BROWN: And you look at those numbers, you realize how serious this is.
We have been talking a lot about the credit crunch. It has gotten so bad that we have heard today, Ali, that Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger in California says his state may need to borrow $7 billion just to maintain basic services there.
VELSHI: Yes.
BROWN: I mean, that underscores for me at least how serious the problem is right now.
VELSHI: Well, if California were its own country, it would be the eighth largest economy in the world. And you and I were discussing how this credit crisis affects people because a lot of companies borrow money on a short-term basis to make up the gap between their revenue and their expenses. Well, a lot of governments do, too.
And the state of California and other states have been having massive, massive problems raising that money. What Governor Schwarzenegger was doing was trying to encourage the passage of this bill. Now, why I was at the Chicago Board of Trade is that's where a lot of debt is traded, a lot of bonds. And the minute that bailout was passed, we started to see an imperceptibly small thawing of the credit.
It wasn't much. It was not enough to call it a trend, but we did start to see it going in that direction. That's the kind of money that the state of California would need access to. So, theoretically, things might be getting a little bit better, but that's a big problem.
And, by the way, big states, like California and New York and places like that, a lot of them have big budget struggles. California has been particularly hard-hit with foreclosures. And that's part of it. You have foreclosures, your tax base starts to disappear.
BROWN: So, very quickly, Ali, is there any reason people should be feeling optimistic given that the bill passed?
VELSHI: Yes, because we got all those folks in Washington to finally get together and do something. It may not have been an ideal bill, but it's movement forward. So, yes, there's a real sense of how serious this is.
And I think we're going to start to tackle problems as they come up a little more effectively. We're not at the bottom. It is going to get worse, but there's probably an end of this. It might be at the end of 2009, though, Campbell.
BROWN: We have got a long road.
OK, Ali.
VELSHI: Yes.
BROWN: I should just mention very quickly I did see you on television earlier today, a little show apparently that let's just say will remain nameless.
Ali is cheating on us, everyone.
(LAUGHTER)
VELSHI: Not at all. It's a lot of the same stuff that...
BROWN: Yes, a lot of the same stuff that what?
VELSHI: That you and I have discussed.
BROWN: Yes.
VELSHI: Just to a different audience. We were letting this -- we were spreading the message about how this all affects you. But I'm coming back to you Monday night. We have got a date on TV.
BROWN: All right. OK, Ali. We will see you then.
As we said earlier, each presidential candidate has a huge stake in the bailout. They talked about it this afternoon. We're going to have that next, plus, more on how the bailout will crimp their styles and change their priorities, whether they like it or not.
And, of course, both sides claim their V.P. candidate had a great debate. We will get beyond that, though. For one thing, did they get their facts straight? We have got a fact-check when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We mentioned a little earlier both presidential candidates did vote for the bailout package, calling it a necessary evil.
We want to check in now with senior political correspondent Candy Crowley, who is keeping track of what they are saying today.
And, Candy, Obama says basically the bailout was the first step in a long-term economic fix that the country needs right now. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: The fundamentals of the economy aren't sound and we're going to have to do a lot of work moving forward. So, if we can stop the bleeding that this package implemented effectively and then move forward to deal with the broader problems on Main Street, then hopefully we can start getting our economy back on track.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Candy, earlier in the week, there was a lot of grumbling that Obama didn't do much to try to persuade House Democrats to back the bailout in its original form. Today, you hear at least his supporters saying he was a real player in the 11th hour.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, and he told reporters that he had called people at least for the second go- around on this package.
Both are laying claim to having called members of their party. I think something like over 30 Democratic members who had voted no the first time around were switched, the high 20s for Republicans who had originally voted yes and now vote no. So, both Obama and McCain at this point are taking a little credit for that, and certainly their supporters are out there crediting them, because, if it works, well, then they have saved the economy. BROWN: Yes. Well, and no matter how you slice it, a rough couple of weeks for John McCain, trying to prove that he gets how deep, how painful this crisis is and that he understands, frankly, that it's not over. Let's listen to some of what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCAIN: The action Congress took today is a tourniquet. It is not a permanent solution. Our economy is still hurting, and hurting badly. And further action is needed, and it should not take a crisis to get this country to act and this Congress to act in a bipartisan fashion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And, Candy, McCain knows, looking at the polls right now, they're not trending in his favor, that he has got to find a way to own this as an issue if he's going to win.
Tuesday's town hall style debate is on domestic issues. It's a real opportunity. How are they preparing to try to take advantage of it?
CROWLEY: Well, we do know they are going to go down shortly for debate preparation. There's been a lot of talk, well, he needs to come out with a specific plan now post this bailout.
But the fact of the matter is, if you listen to both these men, Obama is talking about stopping the bleeding. It only stopped the bleeding. McCain says it's just a tourniquet. So, they're both on the same page here.
And I think, if we look back at the last debate they had, which was last week, I think last Friday, they both kind of punted the whole economy crisis thing to kind of talk more long term.
And what they both have to do and what McCain especially has to do is to go out there and say, here's what we do next, and be really specific. But, having said that, a couple of us have been talking to people inside the McCain campaign and people who advise the campaign from the outside, and there doesn't seem to be any sign that they're putting together some big, boffo plan, but certainly they know the stakes are Tuesday, particularly on domestic issues.
BROWN: Candy Crowley for us tonight -- Candy, thanks.
And in case you thought Congress would approve a pork-free package when it came to the bailout, well, guess again. Washington hasn't changed. And lawmakers larded the bailout up with all sorts of extra goodies. Coming up, why the bailout is also great news for arrow makers and rum drinkers.
And, next, between all the winks and shout-outs, did Sarah Palin and Joe Biden come close to getting their facts straight? Tom Foreman put last night's debate through to our no-bull test.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALIN: Nice to meet you.
BIDEN: It's a pleasure.
PALIN: Hey, can I call you Joe?
BIDEN: You can call me Joe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: "Can I call you Joe?" So, that's how it began, a friendly start to the vice presidential debate between Senator Joe Biden and Governor Sarah Palin.
Over 70 million people were watching. That's nearly 20 million more than watched the first presidential debate. Tonight, Republicans will tell you that Palin put that Katie Couric interview to rest, hitting a home run and recharging the GOP base. Democrats think it was Biden's big night and that he delivered. We are going to hear from our experts, the best political team on television, about that in a moment.
But here's a flavor. We saw very different styles, very different strategies on that stage last night. Palin used her familiar, firm, folksy approach to connect with voters. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALIN: Just everyday American people, Joe Six-Pack, hockey moms across the nation, I think we need to band together and say, never again. Never will we be exploited and taken advantage of again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Now, Biden also sticking to his talking points, and that was to link McCain to the president. Oh, and about that maverick label?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: Let's talk about the maverick John McCain is. And, again, I love him. He's been a maverick on some issues, but he has been no maverick on the things that matter to people's lives.
He voted four out of five times for George Bush's budget, which put us a half a trillion dollars in debt this year and over $3 trillion in debt since he's got there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: The two clashed over the economy, energy issues and on foreign policy, especially the war in Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: This is a fundamental difference between us. We will end this war. For John McCain, there's no end in sight to end this war. Fundamental difference. We will end this war.
PALIN: Your plan is a white flag of surrender in Iraq and that is not what our troops need to hear today, that's for sure. And it's not what our nation needs to be able to count on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: As the campaigns spin, Americans are sounding off.
In a CNN/Opinion Research poll, 51 percent of people who watched the debate said that Biden did the best job, compared to 36 percent who thought Palin did. But 84 percent said Palin did exceed expectations. So, in a way, maybe they both won. The candidates made a lot of points and a lot of promises last night.
So, what exactly is fact? What exactly is fiction? Well, that's why we have got Tom Foreman to put their words to our no-bull test -- Tom.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Campbell, for all the style points there, both vice presidential candidates took liberties with the truth, a lot of them, on a lot of subjects.
So, let's get started.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN (voice-over): The success of the surge in Iraq is something Senator McCain is proud of. And, since Senator Obama was against it, Governor Palin said this.
PALIN: Barack Obama still can't admit the surge works.
FOREMAN: But that's false. Obama still wants our troops out of Iraq. However, he now says the surge succeeded beyond our wildest dreams.
Obama has been criticized for his views on foreign policy, so Biden went after McCain on that same front.
BIDEN: John McCain said as recently as a couple weeks ago he wouldn't even sit down with the government of Spain.
FOREMAN: Problem is, that's false. America has had strained relations with its old NATO ally, Spain, but, when McCain was interviewed about it recently, he did not commit one way or the other to future talks.
On the economy, Biden says this is McCain's plan for health care reform.
BIDEN: Deregulate it and let the free market move, like he did for the banking industry.
FOREMAN: That's misleading. McCain wants some deregulation, but nothing like the extensive lack of oversight being blamed for many banking problems.
On taxes, Palin says Biden said this.
PALIN: Higher taxes or asking for higher taxes or paying higher taxes is patriotic.
FOREMAN: That's misleading, too. Biden says people making more than a quarter-million dollars a year should pay more to help out middle-class Americans, and helping the American economy recover is what he calls patriotic.
There are plenty of other examples. Palin said Obama voted 94 times to increase taxes or not reduce them. That misleading. More than half those votes came in budget the resolutions, which, on their own, could not raise taxes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN: Governor Palin is also getting a stick in the eye from some of the Democrats up in Alaska today, who say that when she brought up the issue of Darfur late in the show -- it was mentioned by Joe Biden, and then she said, well, our state has divested it or is in the process of divesting itself of our holdings with Sudan, so that we won't help what's being done to the people of Darfur out there.
She was -- some Democrats up there say she really wasn't for that to begin with. She only changed that position later on. But, nonetheless, they're sorting that out. The list of half-truths, outright fibs and misleading statements from both sides in this debate goes on and on, really. And, no doubt, that's exactly what it's going to keep doing right up until the election -- Campbell.
BROWN: Tom Foreman for us tonight, good work. Tom, thanks. Appreciate it.
So, both candidates' facts may have been a little shaky, but did you catch all those winks from Sarah Palin, the charm coming from Joe Biden? We are going to ask some of the smartest political observers around if that maybe is what really is going to sway voters.
And, then, later, check out who's got the answers on "Jeopardy." Yes, that's me. Find out if you know the right questions. Stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. SARAH PALIN (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: How long have I been at this, like, five weeks? So there hasn't been a lot that I've promised except to do what is right for the American people, put government back on the side of the American people. SEN. JOE BIDEN (D), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The people in my neighborhood, they get it. They get it. And they know they've been getting the short end of the stick.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: They were just feet away from each other but worlds apart. There were no fireworks last night. No knockout punches from Sarah Palin and Joe Biden, but there were moments to remember. Her winks, his emotion. But who won? And will it matter, frankly, next month?
Our political panel now ready to pitch in on this. CNN political contributoror and Republican strategist Bay Buchan who is also or was rather a senior adviser for Mitt Romney's presidential campaign, CNN contributor Dana Milbank, national political columnist for "The Washington Post." Oh, nice job. And CNN political analyst Roland Martin, a supporter of Barack Obama. I've also got with me in the studio "Time" magazine editor-at-large and senior political analyst, Mark Halperin, joining us.
So Dana, let me start with you. Past few weeks we have seen Sarah Palin stumbling through some pretty high-profile interviews. Last night she took control. She set her own ground rules. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. SARAH PALIN (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I may not answer the questions the way that either the moderator or you want to hear, but I'm going to talk straight to the American people and let them know my track record.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: That's pretty much what she did, which included, frankly, ignoring a lot of the questions.
DANA MILBANK, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Doggone it, you betcha. That's exactly what she did, Campbell, and quite effectively in many instances. You know, she would be asked about taxes, she'd talk about energy. She'd be asked about health care, she'd talk about energy. But I think what happened here is you've got sort of this bifurcation going on.
Those of us who saw the the Katie Couric interview, who saw Tina Fey do her send-up, saw the actual Sarah Palin come in and said, hey, wait a minute. She speaks English without the help of a translator. She seems to be fine. The rest of the country that may not necessarily have been watching all of this said, well, maybe she's not quite up to the task, which is why the polls didn't look so great for her there that night.
BROWN: Bay, very reassuring for a lot of conservatives, which I know even you would concede last week after the Katie Couric interview, was sort of a rough patch for her. The fact that she seemed to hold her own meant a lot.
BAY BUCHANAN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: She was remarkable. She was incredible. A real star.
You know, I watched that and friends we were calling back each other. We were thrilled to death because it was about a whole lot more. This is somebody from Middle America the media had written off. She showed that --
BROWN: But, Bay, as a reporter --
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: She took on somebody with 30 years of experience -- 30 years experience. She was toe to toe.
BROWN: But as a supporter of hers -- hang on, Bay. As a supporter of hers, though, given what happened last week, were you nervous going into the debate?
BUCHANAN: Oh, there's no question, Campbell. We were. A lot of us were nervous. I'm telling you, because you just weren't certain.
We saw her at the convention. We knew she was talented, but we don't know maybe the last couple of weeks there was too much coaching and she wasn't going to be able to be her natural self, too cautious. She threw all that off. She had a good sense of who she was last night, completely confident, sent a message right to the camera that, listen, I am upbeat, I'm positive, I have a good grasp of this material. And at the same time, I can go toe-to-toe with this fellow, 30 years experience. I can hold my own.
He didn't lay a glove on her. She won that. She won it cleanly. It was a terrific, terrific night.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Oh, Bay -- oh, my God!
BROWN: All right. Quickly, Roland.
MARTIN: Bay, first you talk about remarkable. If that's remarkable, trust me, you guys' standards are totally low. This reminded me when you were in the sixth grade and you had a five-page paper to write, and you had enough information for one page and you sort of fill the other four pages, that's what it was like.
I mean, Bay, she didn't -- wouldn't answer many questions. When Biden went after her on McCain's health plan, she couldn't respond to that. When he hit her back on taxes, she couldn't respond. Again, I mean, this whole notion that somehow this was great and remarkable, if that's the best you've got --
BROWN: All right. Let me fan this -- let me broaden this conversation a little bit and bring Mark Halperin in as well. I want to play a little sound bite from Joe Biden. It was striking for me when I saw this moment -- a very emotional moment for him. Let's watch. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOE BIDEN (D), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The notion that somehow because I'm a man I don't know what it's like to raise two kids alone. I don't know what it's like to have a child you're not sure is going to -- is going to make it. I understand. I understand, as well as, with all due respect, the governor or anybody else, what it's like for those people sitting around that kitchen table.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: That's Joe Biden talking about caring for his critically injured sons after his wife and daughter were killed in a car accident. You know beyond that, Mark, even, you know, what he was doing -- what she was doing, both of them it seemed connecting very much with working class voters. I mean, that was their mission when they walked out on that stage, and every answer seemed to be geared toward that, right?
MARK HALPERIN, "TIME" MAGAZINE: And I'd be willing to say that both of them do it better than the people at the top of their tickets. I think both of them are better at talking to working class voters, and both of them by their life experience have a real connection that's legitimate and authentic.
Joe Biden, that was the the one moment I think where he kind of let himself be lost in emotion. I think he probably would have been better off doing more of it, but it would have conflicted with the mission he clearly had. He and his advisers clearly felt a different strategy, almost ignoring Sarah Palin, talking to the American people, talking to the audience in the room and the moderator. And I think that kept him pretty straight, pretty away from being emotional. It may have hurt him overall, but it did keep him from making a mistake, which would have hurt him more.
BUCHANAN: And, Campbell --
BROWN: Yes, go ahead.
BUCHANAN: That's exactly what happened. Biden did have a role. He was going to go after John McCain, and we heard it time and time and time and time and time again. He had one play.
Sarah was out there. She was the interesting person. She was dynamic. She talked about herself. She talked about --
MARTIN: Bay, he won!
BUCHANAN: No, he did not.
BROWN: All right.
BUCHANAN: She cleaned his clock.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: OK. Guys, guys, guys, I've got 10 seconds left.
Dana, where does it go from here? Was it ultimately a wash, or does she have any potential here to be helpful to McCain, given where he is in the polls at the moment?
MILBANK: They both had good nights. It's modestly probably a boost for her, but it's not the sort of thing that's going to change the whole game here that's weighing very heavily against John McCain right now.
BROWN: All right. Panel, stick around. We have more to talk about.
Still ahead, though -- wool, rum, wooden arrows. How did they make it into the bailout bill? That's what we want to know. And we asked a lot of questions here in the ELECTION CENTER.
Up next, my "Jeopardy" question and your chance to answer it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: When you're as obsessed with politics as we are here in the ELECTION CENTER, you never really know when you're going to get a chance to show off. For example, "Jeopardy." Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEX TREBEK, "JEOPARDY" HOST: CNN on politics.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Politics for 16.
TREBEK: Here's another friend of ours from CNN.
BROWN: I'm Campbell Brown. On March 4, 2008, John McCain clinched the GOP nomination with four primary wins including this vast state where he made his victory remarks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: All right. So "Jeopardy" fans, we're going to give you a few minutes here. Remember to give your answer in the form of a question. Stay with us.
In the meantime, another question. What do wooden arrows for kids, racetracks and rum have to do with the the financial bailout bill?
Oh, you know how it goes in Washington. Nothing is ever quite that simple and taxpayers always seem to foot the bill. We're going to tell you how the bailout got fattened up with some good old- fashioned pork.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. JIM MCDERMOTT (D), WASHINGTON: When Republicans force a bill that ignores the plight of regular Americans but includes so- called sweeteners, that is not worthy of support. When Republicans force a bill that slips in more earmark and spending, that's not worthy of support.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So that was Congressman Jim McDermott railing against those so-called sweeteners. Other critics call them pure lard, expensive add-ons attached to the bailout plan that was approved today.
Here it is, right here, 451 pages apparently. Joe Johns counting up the high price of all the pork that's in those 451 pages.
And, Joe, they are called tax extenders. But let's be honest about it, it is pork. For instance, this kid's arrow, I think we have a graphic showing people what it is. OK. What are arrows doing in our bailout package, Joe?
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Campbell, you got me. I mean, you've got to wonder what this stuff has to do with the rescue plan. A lot of these things are tax breaks that have been around for a while. Now, I have to read the titles and I warn you they're not written for teleprompter.
Starting with number one -- exemption from excise tax for certain wooden arrows designed for use by children. OK? You would have never known it, but wooden arrows designed for use by children apparently are worth $2 million, a $2 million tax break to the people who produce or import them. Right now, the law imposes a tax on them, and the new law basically gets rid of the tax.
Number two -- seven-year cost recovery period for motor sports racing track facility. There you go. That's a tax cut for people who run automobile racetracks. We're talking about $100 million for the track owners, for the grandstands, for the parking lots, for the concession stands. And, by the way, a lot of times those people are already getting tax breaks from their states and cities.
Number three -- increase in limit on cover-over of rum excise tax to Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands. This is a tax break that has been around for a while. It reduces the tax on rum coming from Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands, one of those tax breaks that expired at the beginning of the year. Total cost on that one, $192 million.
And here's the big title -- extension and modification of duty suspension on wool products, wool research fund, wool duty refunds. OK, you get it.
The tax break is for producers of worsted wool fabrics. We're talking about $148 million here for people who use imported fibers and yarns. There's plenty more where that came from. It all adds up to over $100 billion. The question, of course -- do all these things really belong in there? BROWN: Well, that is the question, Joe. I mean, the one -- the list you just cited, those are all pretty ridiculous, I mean, clearly. But I know not all the sweeteners in this bill are necessarily as bad or as egregious. But why didn't they do it separately? I mean, why does this stuff have to go into the bailout package?
JOHNS: Well, yes. You're totally right. There's one in there for tax breaks for bicycle commuters. Pretty good idea sometimes, but come on, it's Capitol Hill politics. Everybody was in a rush, and this is what you call the last train leaving the station on Capitol Hill, a chance for Senate Democrats to get some things in they've been advocating led, by the way, by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. It was pretty clear the House was going to have to pass the bill. A lot of people weren't thrilled with it, but they said they had no choice -- Campbell.
BROWN: That's so lame. It's so lame.
Joe, Joe, thank you for drawing up the list for us and thank you for reading those 451 pages so I didn't have to.
JOHNS: Sure I did.
BROWN: Good to see you, Joe Johns. Appreciate it.
Coming up in a few minutes, "LARRY KING LIVE." And Larry's got a scorecard for last night's VP debate and a preview of the next McCain- Obama showdown.
Larry, tell us more.
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Why didn't they give a tax break to cufflinks?
BROWN: Wait, I didn't hear you. Somebody was yapping in my ear.
KING: Cufflinks.
BROWN: Cufflinks.
KING: Why didn't they give a -- yes, cufflinks have been overlooked for years.
BROWN: Well, for your sake, why didn't they give a tax to suspenders?
KING: Suspenders, that's right.
BROWN: There you go. You know, I'll hire lobbyists for you, Larry. We'll send them up to the Hill and work on it for next time.
KING: We'll do it in the next crisis.
BROWN: All right.
KING: We're going to debate the debate. We will scrutinize last night's historic square-off between Sarah Palin and Joe Biden from start to finish. Was there a winner or a loser? Or did it wash out?
Did style matter more than substance? Were there any major mistakes, any surprises? And where does last night's debate leave John McCain and Barack Obama?
That's all coming up on "LARRY KING LIVE" -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right. Larry, we'll see you in just a few minutes.
Coming up, the McCain campaign gives up on the state of Michigan, which does not leave them much wiggle room if you look at the electoral map. The battleground is shrinking. With the election just over a month away, time is running out. We're going to game out with the McCain's campaign's next moves could be, should be.
And we showed you the political question that I asked on "Jeopardy." Will you have the right answer?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: OK. "Jeopardy" fans, here's the moment you've been waiting for. We played you a clip a little bit ago and asked if you know the question. Here it comes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Politics for 16.
ALEX TREBEK, "JEOPARDY" HOST: Here's another friend of ours from CNN.
BROWN: I'm Campbell Brown. On March 4, 2008, John McCain clinched the GOP nomination with four primary wins, including this vast state where he made his victory remarks.
TREBEK: Jenny?
JENNY, "JEOPARDY" CONTESTANT: What is Texas?
TREBEK: Correct.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Good job, Jenny. Answer -- what is Texas? That's from yesterday's "Jeopardy." We're going to be on again with another question later this month because we can't get enough of Alex Trebek.
John McCain is pulling up stakes in Michigan, giving up the state with just about a month to go. As the clock ticks down, every move takes on added importance. So what does John McCain do next? We're going to break up the electoral map in just a second.
But first, Erica Hill here right now with tonight's "Briefing."
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I didn't know your announcement was so close, by the way. BROWN: You know, I'm a little crushed.
HILL: There you go.
Campbell, a troubled Wachovia Bank, we're learning, may seem to be in the middle of a takeover fight. Wells Fargo announcing a $15 billion merger deal with Wachovia today. That, of course, tops a previous offer from Citigroup. Regulators and shareholders now have to sign off on the merger, but Citigroup is challenging the deal saying, hold up here. It had an exclusive agreement with Wachovia.
Joe Biden saying goodbye to his son Beau today who is headed to Iraq. Beau Biden is a member of the the National Guard. He is also Delaware's attorney general. His father spoke at today's deployment ceremony.
And there you have it. A little update for you.
BROWN: Before you go, I want you to check out this. It's a good Friday night little addition to our show. A little love on the campaign trail.
Barack Obama stopped at a flower shop near Philadelphia, bought a dozen white roses for his wife Michelle today because it is their 16th wedding anniversary.
Here's the thing. It was the least he could do because he actually told reporters it was his 15th anniversary.
HILL: Oops.
BROWN: Yes. Oops. Seriously.
HILL: At least he remembered his anniversary. You got to give him credit for something. But losing a year, that could be a little rough.
BROWN: You're more forgiving than I am.
All right. Erica Hill for us. Erica, thanks.
HILL: Thanks.
BROWN: Coming up next, John McCain's big move out of Michigan. It means big changes on the electoral map. We're going to look at his new campaign strategy and the states McCain now has to win. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tonight, John McCain is effectively giving up on the state of Michigan turning to other battleground states that he believes he is more likely to win. And now, that list is getting smaller.
"Time" magazine editor-at-large and senior political analyst, Mike Halperin, is back to take us through the list. Why are you laughing?
HALPERIN: I love talking about the electoral college. Pretty much now when you invite me on unless you say I'm talking about the electoral college, I'm probably not coming.
BROWN: OK, fine.
HALPERIN: It's all --
BROWN: You're upset (ph).
HALPERIN: It's all electoral (ph).
BROWN: You're right. It's all that matters right now.
HALPERIN: The whole thing, it's all that matters.
BROWN: You're totally right.
HALPERIN: Yes.
BROWN: OK. So we just mentioned the big news yesterday.
HALPERIN: Yes.
BROWN: It kind of got overlooked because of the debate. We were so focused on that. But this is huge, the decision to pull out of Michigan and focus elsewhere. This is a map of 2004.
HALPERIN: Right.
BROWN: Using that. Explain to us why Michigan is such a big deal.
HALPERIN: Well, look, Michigan is a state that the Democrats won last time, John Kerry part of his 252 was Michigan. So you'd say, well, McCain doesn't really need Michigan. What's the big deal?
The reality is, this map from 2004 is very instructive. McCain or Obama needs to take some states that Bush won last time in order to win. That's pretty simple math. But he's doing very well in a lot of those red states from 2004.
McCain, on the the other hand, is very unlikely to encroach on too many of these blue states from last time. He needs to find places to pick up because the assumption is that Obama will pick up red states. So as Obama takes red states, if McCain is going to win, he needs to be taking back blue states. The blue states that most of us thought was his best bet was Michigan.
BROWN: Was Michigan.
HALPERIN: Now that's off the table, he's got to find some other blue states. They say, the McCain campaign says, we have some other blue options. We've got some other states to take back to win 270 electoral votes. But it really narrows things down for them. BROWN: OK. So let's put up the map, though, that will give us that path to 270.
HALPERIN: Right.
BROWN: Gold states being the battleground.
HALPERIN: Right.
BROWN: I mean, what would a possible scenario be?
HALPERIN: Well, this is CNN's current map. The blue and the dark blue are the Obama states that you all see as going to Obama, rather to say for McCain. The problem for McCain is Michigan now a toss-up but no longer really because he's pulled out.
BROWN: Right.
HALPERIN: His options are really Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, which is, Obama is doing very well in, and Minnesota. Those are the three now that they're focusing on as they don't focus on Michigan. His problem is, everything because of the national numbers, the economy, everything is drifting towards Obama. So while McCain is going to try to win states like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Minnesota, where he is behind, Obama is already ahead in Iowa, which was a red state last time...
BROWN: Right.
HALPERIN: ... in New Mexico, which was a red state last time, and is ahead today in places like Florida, in Ohio, challenging even in places that haven't gone Democrat in, like, forever, as the kids say, Indiana, North Carolina, maybe even Missouri. And he's got great resources.
One of the reasons McCain pulled out of Michigan besides that he was way behind...
BROWN: Right.
HALPERIN: ... he doesn't have the money. He doesn't have as much money. So Obama, more money, ahead in the polls, a bigger playing field, more options to get to 270. Not looking great tonight for John McCain.
Three weeks ago, though, remember, three weeks ago, there were people who thought McCain was going to win this. He was talking about threatening in New Jersey, in Washington and Oregon.
BROWN: Right.
HALPERIN: Things can change again.
BROWN: October surprise, Mark.
HALPERIN: That's right. BROWN: I'm telling you.
HALPERIN: But on the current trajectory, McCain giving up Michigan is a metaphor and a real problem for him to find a combination to get there.
BROWN: Mark Halperin for us from "Time" magazine. Mark, thanks.
HALPERIN: Thanks, Campbell.
Thirty-two days to go. He does need to turn the tide and quick. What should he do? We're going to put that question to our panel when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We just showed you the electoral map. We just made it clear. You saw the numbers. It is an uphill battle for John McCain right now to get to 270 to win.
We've got our political panel back to talk about that -- Roland Martin, Bay Buchanan, Dana Milbank.
Everybody, Bay, I'll start with you. You saw the numbers. Mark Halperin walked us through it. You know what the polls are. What does he got to do during the next month?
BUCHANAN: No question that McCain/Palin are the underdogs. No question about it. He's going to have to -- first the economy. It's not going to go away. He's got to make sure he neutralizes the issue in some way, and make the American people realize it's the Democrats who's equally responsible for that mess and they still don't get it because of the $100 billion of extra pork they threw into this bailout.
Then he's got to take the gloves off and go right after Obama. Everything should be on the table and pound that fellow, so the American people lose confidence in the ability for Obama to be president.
BROWN: While listening to Bay, Dana Milbank, it sounds like it's about to get ugly.
MILBANK: Yes, I would say so. I mean, the best thing John McCain could do is suspend his campaign, go over to Waziristan and capture Osama bin Laden. But short of that, there's not much else he can do either than wait and hope that the climate changes.
BROWN: Obama supporter that you are, Roland, I know you don't want him to do much, but what do you think?
MARTIN: The very issue is very simple. The economy is issue number one. Hey, John, pray for issue number two and number three to go up to the top of the list. I mean, that's what he has to happen. He needs culture war. He needs something because on the economy he's utterly clueless, and it's clear. BROWN: A culture war probably wouldn't do it, though. It's all -- you know, it's probably going to take a big event, but frankly, stranger things have happened during the month of October. We should all stay on our toes, anyway.
MARTIN: Maybe he should pray.
BROWN: This isn't over yet. I don't think so. Roland Martin, Bay Buchanan...
MARTIN: It's not.
BROWN: ... Dana Milbank, appreciate it, guys. Thanks very much and have a great weekend.
That is it for us. You have a great weekend, too.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
