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Campbell Brown
Race and Politics; Obama Widens Lead
Aired October 08, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, everybody.
In spite of history-making efforts by governments around the world, financial markets everywhere are still melting down. So, why is AIG, the insurance giant that got one of the biggest bailouts, picking up the tab for a pricey junket to an exclusive resort? That's your money, right? It's a pretty outrageous story. And we're going to bring it to you in just a few minutes.
And, then, you stand to save thousands in dollars in a cut, if, rather, a couple the promises we heard in last night's debate are true. So, we're going to be pointing them to our no bias/no bull test tonight.
But we are starting with the shouting and the innuendo we are hearing more and more of on the campaign trail. It is getting very, very ugly. Tonight, we are cutting through the bull on the issue of race and this campaign.
Look, everybody, we all know that we are in unchartered territory here. Never before has there been an African-American presidential nominee. So, without question, race is going to be part of the question. Race-baiting doesn't have to be.
And, yet, it is happening in this campaign. Twice this week, surrogates for Senator McCain have made a point of calling Senator Obama Barack Hussein Obama. The implication here is clear. It is foreign-sounding. It is Muslim-sounding. It is un-American-sounding. It is dangerous-sounding.
What it is, is race-baiting. And that is what is dangerous. Inciting crowds, encouraging their angry outbursts, McCain supporters shouting treason and terrorist about Obama at these rallies, that's dangerous.
Earlier in the campaign, McCain denounced this stuff. He strongly denounced it. And, today, it requires a stronger response, a much stronger denunciation than a campaign-generated paper statement.
But let's also be careful here and use our heads. Some Obama supporters on the left are up in arms over something McCain said at the debate last night, when he referred to Obama as "that one." Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: It was an energy bill on the floor of the Senate loaded down with goodies, billions for the oil companies, and it was sponsored by Bush and Cheney.
You know who voted for it? You might never know. That one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Some people have interpreted that comment as having racial undertones.
Give me a break. I can hear my grandfather talking about one of his kids or his grandkids as "that one." He used it a lot. Maybe it is a generational thing. Maybe it wasn't a term of endearment, the way it was when my grandfather used it. Maybe McCain did mean to be disrespectful. But racist? I don't think so.
We should be holding these candidates accountable for what they say during the campaign and hope that, in these final days, they do try to maintain a little dignity. But we have also got to check ourselves. We have a responsibility, too, to not get overheated.
What we say matters, too. Whoever wins this election, we are all going to have to rally around that person. Given what's happening to our economy, all that's going on in this country now, none of us wants the next president to be a failure, whoever he may be, do we?
So, now to tonight's top story: why the world's financial gurus can't seem to do anything to fix the financial meltdown. The Dow industrials fell 189 points today, following huge losses in overseas markets. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson called in reporters this afternoon. After warning that global financial markets remain severely strained, he promised to act as quickly as possible on the $700 bailout that Congress just passed, but then he added another warning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY PAULSON, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: One thing we must recognize, even with the new Treasury authorities, some financial institutions will fail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And, late today, the Federal Reserve announced it is loaning insurance giant AIG almost $38 billion. That would be on top of the $85 billion the Fed loaned AIG last month when it was on the brink of bankruptcy.
And that was just before some of the company's top employees took off for a resort vacation that cost $440,000. We are going to have more on that in just a minute.
But, first, senior business correspondent Ali Velshi is here with us, like he is every night these days, to take us through the big picture.
And break it down for us, Ali. Where are we as of today?
ALI VELSHI, CNN SENIOR BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: I hope you will still love me when times are good.
(LAUGHTER)
VELSHI: Listen, I think two incredible things happened tonight. Secretary Paulson didn't say, some banks may fail. He says that more banks will fail.
And this AIG story, which I know you are going to do something else on, they had $85 billion, and they have just asked for another $38 billion. Let me tell you a bit about what happened on the market. We saw an unprecedented move, central banks around the world for the first time in history making a coordinated move to cut interest rates around the world.
And, boy, markets turned from being entirely negative in the pre- market, the betting on how markets were going to start. That was the futures market. It turned from being sour to being so positive. And in the end, take a look at what happened. It's unbelievable. This market, you know, stayed below that ground mark for a while, and then went above and then went below. And this is the best definition of a crisis of confidence.
President Bush speaks. Market goes down. Treasury Secretary Paulson speaks. Markets go down. Yesterday, Ben Bernanke spoke. Markets go down. People are just not sure what's going on.
Now, let me tell you markets didn't react to these unprecedented moves. We have thrown three very powerful antibiotics at this sickness that we have into the market. But they are interesting, because what it is, is -- let's look at this.
October 3, we got the $700 billion bailout. But the time it takes to work is going to be between a month, because Treasury Secretary Paulson said at least seven weeks or several weeks before that money starts working, up to 14 months.
Then, yesterday, the Federal Reserve says it is going to buy -- well, it's going to offer loans to companies. Those loans that they have trouble getting because of the credit freeze, well, they are going to do that, but that's going to take some time to activate. And the interest rate cut that we just saw today is going to take between nine to 18 months to work. Those loans that are being made to companies, it's going to take seven days at a minimum to six months to work.
None of this actually solves the problem right now. And that's the problem we have got. These markets, we have thrown a lot of medicine at them. But it is like those antibiotics. They don't work on first night. They take some time. You have got to take the whole thing.
This is more than we have ever thrown at anything in history. Despite what some people, including on this network, say, it will work. It just won't work overnight. People have to be patient. If you are watching this show, you have to understand, don't cash out and run away.
These will come back. I actually thought, when I saw all those markets across the world tumbling last night, that today would be the day we would capitulate, we would hit bottom, and it would come up. It didn't happen. It will happen in time. Don't lose faith.
BROWN: He is the optimist.
(LAUGHTER)
VELSHI: I am the optimist.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: It was a fascinating way to explain it, Ali. And we are standing by you.
Thank you very much, Ali Velshi for us tonight.
So, now that the government is throwing around billions of taxpayer dollars to bail out failing companies, we are learning new details about how some top employees from one of those companies, AIG, went winging off to a spa vacation, even as the government was bailing out the insurance giant.
Barack Obama brought this up last night in the debate as an example of corporate excess. Here is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: we just found out that AIG, a company that got a bailout, just a week after they got help went on a $400,000 junket. And I will tell you what, the Treasury should demand that money back and those executives should be fired.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Joe Johns is here with me right now. He has got details on this.
And, Joe, it sounds insane. Tell us about it.
What were they thinking?
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: They have got a major public relations problem. And people are certainly asking questions about their judgment tonight. But it is not a case of executives gone wild.
It was a trip to the St. Regis Monarch Beach resort in California. And it was for about 100 of their top independent insurance agents of AIG. These are some of the most successful salespeople in the country. It was part business, part pleasure, a real taste of the glamorous life for them.
We got a peek at the bill. Now, remember, this is about a week after the federal government kicked in that big $85 billion loan to keep AIG afloat. Meanwhile, out at the St. Regis, they had to sleep. So, they spent $140,000 alone on hotel rooms. Then, of course, they had to eat. So, they spent almost $150,000 on banquets. Throw in $23,000 for the spa, another $7,000 for golf. You get the picture. When it was all said and done, they had spent about $443,000. But they only paid $3,000 or so in tips. So, at least that was frugal.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: OK. I hear you, that these weren't AIG executives, necessarily. They're independent contractors or whatever.
But the fact of the matter is, AIG was still footing the bill. We are footing the bill for AIG. Taxpayers are, anyway. So, how could they possibly justify spending this money?
JOHNS: Well, right.
They say these were independent agents. That's the thing they say. They were not employees. And, yes, on the surface, it certainly looks bad. But the bottom line is, they were rewarding people who had done a good job selling their products. And they say, we have got to keep our good people, especially when times get bad. Otherwise, they will walk out the door.
BROWN: And, even after all this, they are getting another, what, $38 billion of taxpayer money?
JOHNS: Yes, that's right. The government bailing out a company with taxpayer money, it certainly doesn't look right. You have got a big problem here for them. It continues. They hope they can get these bills paid back very quickly, certainly within the next two years, huh?
BROWN: Joe Johns -- good story, Joe. Thank you. Appreciate it.
And we are going to see you a little bit later tonight. We mentioned Joe is not going anywhere.
All this week, Joe is fingering the 10 most wanted culprits of the financial collapse. And you should tune in to "A.C. 360" at 10:00 p.m. for Joe's pretty devastating report.
The Republicans say they are trying raise doubts about Barack Obama. But listen to how the crowd responds at this McCain/Palin rally today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCAIN: Whatever happened to the tax relief he promised them when he was a candidate for the Senate?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Liar!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Liar!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: We are going to look at this tactic, getting people to shout "Liar!" and even worse. We will talk about that coming up in just a moment.
And, then, later, new polls show crucial states taking a definite turn towards one of the candidates. We are going to show you those states and who they are going for when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. SARAH PALIN (R-AK), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: John McCain didn't just come out of nowhere. The American people know John McCain. They know that he's the maverick. And that's what our opponents are afraid of most.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: With just 27 days to go until the election, the McCain campaign is blasting Barack Obama. It is some tough stuff, everybody from Sarah Palin to Cindy McCain to the candidate himself trying to raise us doubts about Obama, painting him as too risky, as somebody who just doesn't get it.
But some say the McCain campaign is crossing a line, and could it backfire?
Ed Henry has been digging into this for us all day. He's in Ohio, we should mention, one of the most, if not the most, important battleground states.
Ed, talk to us about this. The campaign has taken a pretty personal turn, I think, this week. Today, Cindy McCain took a real shot at Barack Obama. She brought up her son, Jimmy, a Marine who served in Iraq. And listen to what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY MCCAIN, WIFE OF SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: The day that Senator Obama decided to cast a vote to not fund my son, when he was serving...
(AUDIENCE BOOING)
C. MCCAIN: Sent a cold chill through my body, let me tell you.
I would suggest that Senator Obama change shoes with me for just one day...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
C. MCCAIN: ... and see what it means -- and see what it means to have a loved one serving in the armed forces.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Now, Ed, rarely do you see a candidate's wife on the attack like that. This is some pretty strong stuff from Cindy McCain.
ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Pretty personal, pretty tough, especially when you consider that, back in the spring, when "The New York Times" was going to publish a story about Cindy McCain, the McCain camp actually tried to get them not to do it, saying it was an invasion of privacy and they didn't want Jimmy McCain, this young Marine, to be thrust in the middle of this national presidential campaign.
Also, just in the last couple of days, Cindy McCain has said that she believes Barack Obama is running the dirtiest campaign in history. That was then. This is now.
And I think this clearly shows the McCain camp is deeply frustrated that everything that they throw at Barack Obama does not seem to stick. And John McCain is sinking in a lot of these battleground states, like here in Ohio, where Barack Obama has been edging ahead. They are frustrated and they're lashing out. This is a pretty big example of that -- Campbell.
BROWN: And, Ed, this is part -- Cindy McCain's comments, all part of a new offensive to try to portray Obama as an unknown, as a risk.
Sarah Palin has been leading that charge. Today, though, you had Joe Biden firing back. And let's listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D-DE), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: The one they have chosen is to appeal to fear with a veiled question: Who is the real Barack Obama?
Ladies and gentlemen, to have a vice presidential candidate raise the most outrageous inferences, the ones that John McCain's campaign is condoning, is simply wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: But, Ed, the McCain campaign not backing down. Take us behind the scenes. What are you hearing about their strategy on this going forward?
HENRY: This fits, Campbell, right into what we have been hearing from Sarah Palin about Bill Ayers, the former 1960s radical. Exactly what are his connections to Barack Obama?
What McCain advisers say is, they want to obviously sow as many doubts as they can about Barack Obama, all pointing to trying to say, he's risky. You don't really know about his associations, his connection. And, also, they are trying to allege that he has not been fully truthful about those associations.
The problem for the McCain camp of course is they have been throwing it out there, and it doesn't really seem to be sticking, in part because right now, with this financial crisis, a lot of people in states like Ohio are probably more likely to be worried about whether their 401(k) is losing 10 percent or 20 percent of its value than what happened with somebody who was a radical back in the 1960s who met Barack Obama in 1995.
So, there are tough questions for Barack Obama, but, in the long run, given this financial crisis, it is hard to see how it will stick necessarily in the short term -- Campbell.
BROWN: And, Ed, we mentioned earlier in the show about what's happened. Twice this week, somebody on stage at a McCain event, a surrogate, has referred to Obama using his middle name, Hussein, something that McCain has denounced early on in the campaign. How is the campaign handling this now?
HENRY: Right afterwards, the campaign will undoubtedly put out a statement, saying, we reject this rhetoric. We think it is divisive. We don't like it.
But the bottom line is that, before it is said, they are not really appearing to aggressively go after their surrogates and say, cut this out. In fairness to the McCain camp, you know, you don't always have control of every minute when somebody is at the podium warming up the crowd.
But, if they want to cut it out, they could do it. They could put out a memo. They could tell people not do it. It's going to be interesting to see whether they finally shut this down or not, Campbell.
BROWN: Yes. So, it will be interesting to see what happens over the next 28 days.
Ed Henry for us tonight -- Ed, thanks.
John McCain clearly needing to turn this campaign around, but will these character attacks on Obama do the trick? We are going to put that question to our team of political experts.
And, then, a little bit later, can McCain save millions of Americans from foreclosure? Can Barack Obama save you $2,500 a year on your health insurance? They were claims you heard last night. We are going to them to our no bull test when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALIN: So, Florida, you know that you are going to have to hang on to your hats, because, from now until Election Day, it may get kind of rough.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's all right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: It may get kind of rough. Well, it sort of feels like we are already there, lots of personal attacks in the homestretch and some pretty big risks for the campaigns.
With me here to talk about this, CNN senior political analyst Jeffrey Toobin, Republican strategist Kevin Madden, former Mitt Romney national press secretary who now supports John McCain, and Errol Louis, who is a "New York Daily News" columnist and host of the morning show at New York's WWRL Radio.
Welcome to everybody.
Kevin, Ed Henry told us just a second ago the McCain campaign is amping up the rhetoric. They're portraying Obama as risky, even dangerous. Some say, though, they have gone too far.
This is "The New York Times" editorial today: "They have gone far beyond the usual fare of quotes taken out of context and distortions of an opponent's record, in the dark territory of race-baiting and xenophobia."
Are they crossing a line here, Kevin?
KEVIN MADDEN, FORMER ROMNEY CAMPAIGN NATIONAL PRESS SECRETARY: Look, I don't think so.
I mean, look, there is a big difference between negative campaigns, which are when you look across the aisle and you point at your opponent and you say, this guy is a crook, and when you look across the aisle and you talk about your opponent in terms of why they are wrong.
And that is perfectly acceptable in the context of a policy debate, of where you are going to take the country, your ideas for the future. And I think that's what the McCain is doing.
They know that there are very doubts about John -- lingering doubts about Barack Obama with a lot of swing voters. And since they believe that these voters believe Barack Obama is somehow risky, somehow an unknown and he's untested, that they are trying to solidify those doubts. And that is how they win on Election Day in many of these swing states.
BROWN: Can you guys reconcile that with what we are seeing on the campaign trail, Errol?
ERROL LOUIS, "THE NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": No, not at all.
You know, it would be one thing if there were in fact expressed doubts. But, you know, you look at the polling data, you look at the numbers in state after state, where swing state voters are moving away from the McCain/Palin ticket, so, it is not that they are exploring doubts. They're trying to create doubts. They're sowing them where they don't exist.
And, when you ask them about it, what is it exactly that you are getting at? Are you saying that he is a terrorist? Are you saying that he is a member of the Weather Underground? Are you saying he's a "Manchurian Candidate"? And they say, oh, well, we don't know. We just have to ask these questions.
It is a despicable kind of a strategy. It doesn't seem to be particularly effective.
BROWN: Jeffrey?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: That's the thing that strikes me, is how totally infective it has been so far. I mean, here we are in the middle of this extremely serious economic situation, and they are talking about someone who is completely unknown to the vast, vast majority of the American people.
BROWN: And you say Bill Ayers.
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: Bill Ayers, who was a terrorist in the late '60s that Obama appears to have had a very tangential connection to.
The answer that every ordinary voter appears to be, so what? And I don't know what the answer is.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Kevin, Jeff has a point here. You are not seeing -- and this strategy has now been employed for a number of days, I think, you know, since we have seen Palin on the trail pushing this. It doesn't seem to be to be working.
MADDEN: Well, look, its effectiveness is definitely in question.
I think that, at the end of the day, if you make your central message in the campaign about pert and about figures like Bill Ayers and Tony Rezko, John McCain is going to have a hard time winning.
But if it is a component to the larger issues involved, risk and somebody who is risky and somebody who is untested on issues related to the economy, on issues related to national security, then John McCain has a chance to convince those swing voters that he is the best candidate and that Barack Obama is not somebody who is prepared to be president and would take the country in the decidedly wrong direction on those issues.
(CROSSTALK)
MADDEN: I would disagree with Errol on one point.
You would presume that, if he was going out there creating doubt that he would just, you know, cede those voters to Barack Obama. And, from a campaign tactic standpoint, you have to go out there and hammer away at those voters' doubts, and reinforce the fact that John McCain is the tested politician here. He is the person with the experience, and Barack Obama is not. BROWN: All right.
Quickly, Errol, let me just ask you on the other side, because you have heard a number of people on the left playing up this comment -- I mentioned it earlier -- "that one," that McCain made at the debate last night in reference to Obama and some people saying that that was racial, that they felt there were racial undertones to that comment.
Do you risk crying wolf when you point out racism when it is questionable whether it is there or not and it undermines the real, you know, instances of...
(CROSSTALK)
LOUIS: I thought about it a long time. The comment did -- it struck me as a little bit odd. And I thought about it. Maybe that's the way they talk in Phoenix. I didn't know what it was. Maybe it is a generational thing. Maybe it was just -- who cares, right?
But I took a lot of calls and we talked about it on my show. And, really, I came here to realize that, in the context of all the other stuff that we have been talking about, he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. I wouldn't call it...
(CROSSTALK)
LOUIS: But, if somebody did, I don't think he's entitled...
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: As a former Phoenixian, I never heard it in Phoenix.
(LAUGHTER)
TOOBIN: I didn't think it was racist, but I thought it was like a grumpy old man. I thought it was rude, which is not as bad as racist, but it's not good either.
BROWN: All right. OK, guys, we -- you are going to stick around. We have got more to talk about. We're going to get back to them later.
Tomorrow, also, is Sarah Palin the answer to the prayers of evangelical women? Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You feel like someone you can hang out with?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I felt like if she walked in my door right now, and -- we could sit down and have snacks with her and talk and have a ball. I feel like she's one of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: We have been talking to a lot of women about this race. We are going to have a panel of women on tonight talking about the debate. As you heard there, these are women who say Palin is a brilliant choice for vice president. They are going to tell us why tomorrow right here in the ELECTION CENTER.
Stay with us tonight for a new look at the ever-changing electoral map, new polls show key battlegrounds turning blue. Find out what is changing the landscape when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: With just 27 days left until the election, CNN's latest national poll of polls shows the presidential race tightening up. Obama leads McCain by four points, 48 to 44 percent. Obama was at 49 percent yesterday with a five-point lead.
But, of course, it isn't the nationwide vote that matters. It is the individual states and the electoral college. And new polls show more key tossup states are starting to tilt Barack Obama's way. A little bit ago, I asked chief national correspondent John King to fire up his magic map and show us what's changing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: So, John, Obama has gained even more ground now over the last few days. Show us what's changed.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What has changed, Campbell, is the economic debate is moving some battleground states toward the Democrat or one case away from the Republican. Things we've changed in the past 72 hours, Wisconsin, 10 electoral votes, was a tossup, now has leaned blue.
New Hampshire, four electoral votes, was a tossup, now leans Democrat. And North Carolina, we had that as leaning Republican, 15 electoral votes. Now in the tossup column. So what the bottom line from all that is Obama now at 264 electoral votes in our projection. He needs 270 to win.
You don't have to be very good in math, Campbell, to know that puts Obama dramatically close to the finish line.
BROWN: So, John, if you're John McCain, if you're Barack Obama, where do you need to be focusing your efforts right now?
KING: It's a very different strategy, Campbell. Let's switch maps and take a look at it because it's quite interesting what's happening. The Democrats, they have the luxury of the lead and they're going on offense. We had Joe Biden today campaigning in the state of Florida. George W. Bush carried it twice. If the Democrats can win this and nothing else changes, they will be marching in the inaugural parade. Joe Biden with two stops in Florida today to show you the Democratic confidence.
And you might call this the audacity of the lead, thank you, Barack Obama, for that. He's in Indianapolis today. That's a state we still lean Republican. But Barack Obama has the money, has the luxury of the lead and has registered a lot of new voters out in Indiana. So he is trying to win Indiana even though he doesn't need it.
The Republicans playing defense, Campbell. It's a very different scenario. John McCain and Sarah Palin out in Pennsylvania today. They're down by 10 or 12 points. If you look at the polls in that state, they need to turn this state from blue, at least to tossup, to put Barack Obama on defense somewhere. Right now, that's not working for the Republican.
Their other stop in Ohio. John McCain loses Ohio, he knows he loses the White House.
Palin and McCain up here in the Cleveland suburbs. They know that area will go Democratic. They're trying to limit Barack Obama's margins and hope, like George W. Bush, they can win out here, all these red places in rural Ohio, to keep that state in the Republican column. But simply put, Democrats on offense, Republicans on defense, Campbell.
BROWN: And, John, as you said, Democrats have a lot more options to get to that magic number of 270. Is there one route I guess that's more likely for Obama to get there?
KING: That's an interesting question. When you put it to the Obama campaign, Campbell, because they say they won't take that route. Is there one route that's more likely? Sure. Absolutely.
You know the economic debate is moving in their favor right now, and you know they're leading in the state of Ohio right now. Again, if you start from the preposition that he's at 264 at the moment, he could spend all his time in Ohio. Turn that state blue and he wins the White House.
But they do not want to get trapped in what they call a narrow strategy. So they're assuming, they'll fight for it but maybe that one goes red. They have so many different options to get there.
Barack Obama can win the state of North Carolina, a big African- American population. He wins the White House. But it can, if John McCain wins that, OK. The Democrats say we'll go out and take the state of Colorado. The Latino vote and new voters, Barack Obama wins the White House.
And one more, Campbell, again, for you. Even if they don't win there, guess what. Virginia makes him president, or Florida would make him president, or Missouri would make him president.
So Barack Obama is looking at a long list. He has the money and he believes even though 27 days is an eternity, he has plenty of time to test it out in state after state after state. He's on offense. The map is in his favor.
BROWN: All right. John King for us. Still a lot of time. A lot could change. We appreciate it.
KING: Yes, it can. Yes, it can.
BROWN: Fascinating stuff. John, thanks.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: So we want to now turn to a couple of the big surprises from last night's debate. John McCain wants the government to help struggling homeowners pay their mortgages. Barack Obama says he'll save you $2,500 a year on health insurance. Are either of those claims going to pass the "No Bias, No Bull" test? Find out when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Here in the ELECTION CENTER, we make a point of letting you hear the candidates in their own words and then putting their claims to our "No Bull" test. Well, in last night's debate, both John McCain and Barack Obama pitched plans to save regular folks thousands of dollars.
First, McCain's surprise announcement that he wants the government to step in and help homeowners who are struggling to make their mortgage payments. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As president of the United States, Alan, I would order the secretary of the treasury to immediately buy up the bad home loan mortgages in America and renegotiate at the new value of those homes, at the diminished value of those homes and let people make those -- be able to make those payments and stay in their homes. Is it expensive? Yes.
But we all know, my friends, until we stabilize home values in America, we're never going to start turning around and creating jobs and fixing our economy. And we've got to give some trust and confidence back to America. I know how to do that, my friends. And it's my proposal, it's not Senator Obama's proposal, it's not President Bush's proposal. But I know how to get America working again, restore our economy and take care of working Americans. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Tom Foreman here tonight as he always is to put McCain's mortgage bailout plan to our "No Bull" test -- Tom.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Campbell, in the wake of this debate, where both these men repeated their standard lines like monks on a pilgrimage, McCain's camp is crowing that he actually introduced a new idea to end the housing crash. Did he, yes and no.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN (voice-over): You heard him outline his plan. He's saying use $300 billion of that giant $700 bailout to directly help homeowners who are in trouble, not Wall Street. He believes by using government money to help those people refinance their bad home loans, we can shore up housing prices, stabilize the mortgage market and keep people off of the street. Problems?
Well, first, this is not original to McCain. The bailout plan already allows for something like this, although it does not spell out the process so precisely or order it the way McCain would. And second, well, Barack Obama was talking about a similar idea in Florida a couple of weeks ago.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We should consider giving government the authority to purchase mortgages directly instead of simply purchasing mortgage-backed securities. It's doubtful that the economy as a whole can recover without the restoration of our housing sector, including a rebound in the home values that have suffered dramatically in recent months.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN: So, again, give McCain credit for taking on the devil in the details here. His proposal is certainly a refinement and provides more specifics on this idea, but for him to claim that this is purely his inspiration is false -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right. So let's move on to Barack Obama and play something that he said last night. He was talking up his plan for health care reform and he pledged to save you some serious money. Let's listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: One of the things that I have said from the start of this campaign is that we have a moral commitment as well as an economic imperative to do something about the health care crisis that so many families are facing.
So here's what I would do. If you've got health care already, and probably the majority of you do, then you can keep your plan if you are satisfied with it. You can keep your choice of doctor. We are going to work with your employer to lower the cost of your premiums by up to $2,500 a year. We're going to do it by investing in prevention. We're going to do it by making sure that we use information technology so that medical records are actually on computers instead of you filling forms out in triplicate when you go to the hospital. That will reduce medical errors and reduce costs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: All right. So, Tom, how did that fare on our "No Bias, No Bull" test?
FOREMAN: Well, Campbell, what a great promise this is. Lower my family's health care premiums by $2,500 a year. That would be significant.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN (voice-over): After all, the National Coalition on Health Care says if you are a family of four, your annual health care insurance premium is about $12,700. Your employer pays two-thirds of that. You, about one-third, $3,800. So subtract $2,500, that's real savings if only it were that simple.
The problem is Obama says he'll get a chunk of the savings from pushing the medical community to use more electronic record keeping. That would save money. But the changeover could take a decade or more, according to a study by the Rand Corporation backed up by FactCheck.org and the National Coalition on Health Care. It is also not clear from the campaign that all these savings would go to you. They might go to your employer, for example.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN: And even if Obama could make it all happen much faster, say, in five years, health care premiums are rising so rapidly they will likely suck all of these dollars and more right back out of your pocket. So the bottom line is, the numbers say this is a misleading promise. Unless Obama has some better trick up his sleeve, he will not see $2,500 in savings for several years at best and maybe never -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right, Tom Foreman for us. As always, Tom, thanks.
Coming up next, Michelle Obama talks to Larry King about McCain referring to her husband as "that one" in the debate last night.
And later, if you want to win this campaign in this election year, it is all about the women. And yet, after a year of campaigning and three debates, women keep telling us the candidates are still not telling them what women need to hear.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: In just a few minutes, Michelle Obama is the guest on "LARRY KING LIVE." And Larry asked her about one of the most dramatic moments of last night's debate when John McCain called her husband "that one" instead of using his name.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Did you take offense to "that one"?
MICHELLE OBAMA, BARACK OBAMA'S WIFE: No, no. I mean, you know --
KING: People are talking about it.
OBAMA: Well, I think there are two conversations that have been going on throughout this whole election. There's the conversation that's been happening with the pundits and, you know, the polls, and then there's the conversation that's been happening on the ground. And the folks out there right now are scared.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: You can hear Larry's full interview with Michelle Obama coming up at the top of the hour on "LARRY KING LIVE."
And up next, the frustrations of female voters. Women tell Randi Kaye what they didn't hear last night they don't know if the candidates actually get how tough it is for average Americans.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: For months and months now, all the big brains in politics have been saying one thing. That on November 4th, it is all about the women. They are the largest group of voters in America and the people who will swing this whole election.
Well, last night, Barack Obama and John McCain tackled the pocketbook issues that women care about most. Randi Kaye watched the debate in Columbus, Ohio, with a group of undecided female voters. And tell us, were they happy with what they heard? Do they think either of these candidates gets it?
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No. They don't think that the candidates get them. I heard from a lot of very frustrated women.
As you know, women are much more methodical about choosing a candidate. We tend to take longer to choose our candidate.
We weigh things. We are information gatherers. But you can't make a decision on which candidate you want if you don't have the specifics that you need. And boy, did we hear a lot about that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KAYE (voice-over): Let's take stock. More than a year of campaigning, two presidential debates, and now only four weeks until the election. So why are these women, undecided voters in Ohio, still waiting to hear details about what's important to them?
SHEILA FUHS, OHIO VOTER: We have problems in this country. I would just like specific answers on how we're going to address it.
KAYE (on camera): Do you feel like you're hearing a lot of promises but no real solution.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely. I need answers.
DEANNA THOMPSON, OHIO VOTER: I need to know what these grand big plans they've got, what does that equate to for me average Joe American?
KAYE (voice-over): As they watched last night's debate, their desire for full explanations was obvious.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: To be able to stay in their homes.
WOMEN: How? Exactly.
CHRISTINA BLENK, OHIO VOTER: They both talked about the bailout and how that was going to fix things. But I wrote in big letters, "How!"
THOMPSON: They both said I want, you know, help middle class America. It was the big question. We were all asking how. I need specifics. I don't need grand sweeping generalizations that we can do this. And I need to know how we can do it.
KAYE: Details, details, details on issues that matter to them, like the economy, health care and education. Otherwise, these women say they won't commit to either candidate. After all, the economy is issue number one.
MEGAN MCWILLIAMS, OHIO VOTER: It is women who do the shopping, the ones that fill up the gas tank. We're the ones taking our precious time cutting those coupons, you know, trying to save every penny that we can.
KAYE (on camera): How many of you are at a point where you feel like you're having to make the choice between groceries and gasoline?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody.
KAYE (voice-over): Juanita Simmons, a mother of three, still wants to know how the candidates' plan to help families like hers pay the bills.
JUANITA SIMMONS, OHIO VOTER: I'm living paycheck to paycheck. Do we pay $10 or $15 less on the electric bill because we've had to spend an extra $30 or $40 on that week on gas?
KAYE: For most of our group, Tuesday's debate was another disappointment.
VERNELLIA RANDALL, OHIO VOTER: They wasted a lot of time attacking each other. They played tennis and we are the damned ball. It gets knocked back and forth.
KAYE: Amy Pulles has three kids and knows how expensive trips to the doctor can be.
(on camera): Did you hear the solutions regarding health care that you needed?
AMY PULLES, OHIO VOTER: No, I did not. They didn't talk about lowering the actual cost of health care as a way to lower health insurance.
KAYE (voice-over): This small business owner was still hungry for solutions on job creation.
BLENK: What are they doing to help businesses like mine to be able to hire more people?
KAYE: And what about equal pay? On average, women here in Ohio earn about $30,000 a year compared to $42,000 for men.
ROZLAND FLAX, OHIO VOTER: Equal pay to me is a very important issue that they didn't touch on. I'm not paid what the men are being paid in my agency.
OBAMA: We've got to deal with education.
KAYE: Obama's mention of education scored well among the teachers and parents in our group even if he didn't lay out specific strategies.
MCWILLIAMS: I was waiting for somebody to talk about No Child Left Behind. Let's face it, the kids are our future. You know, without these kids, where is America going to be?
KAYE: Come November 4th, America will be at the polls.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I'll answer the question.
KAYE: But some of these women may stay home unless they get the answers they've been asking for but are still waiting for.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAYE: So even though our undecideds didn't hear everything that they wanted to hear, a handful of them did actually make up their minds, Campbell, about which candidate they were going to go for. So it was a very pivotal night for our group.
One of them wouldn't tell us who they were going to vote for, but four of them did tell us that they have now decided to vote for Barack Obama. They felt that even though they didn't get all the details, all the specifics, he spoke to them more than John McCain.
BROWN: But more generally, I can't believe the skepticism and the frustration they're voicing. I guess I can believe. Is there any polling data in Ohio right now about -- I mean, they all sound pretty generally skeptical? But where women are, whether they're leaning in one direction or another?
KAYE: Yes. And a lot of the polls tend to show the same thing. I wanted to share two with you.
CNN polls from this week show that women in Ohio favor Obama over John McCain, 54 to 43 percent. So 11-point lead. And an ABC/"Washington Post" poll also done this week shows Obama with a 14-point lead among women in Ohio.
And in 2004, Ohio women were split between John Kerry and Bush, 50/50. So this is very interesting. Women are economy voters. Of course, they turn towards the Democrats.
BROWN: But regardless, I think they could both stand to be a little more specific if you listen to what they had to say.
KAYE: Absolutely.
BROWN: We should go back and talk to them.
KAYE: We will. BROWN: Randi Kaye, great stuff. Thanks, Randi.
The candidates are trying to seal the deal with voters last night. Did they change any minds? We're going to ask our panel, some of the best minds in politics when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: More than 63 million people watched last night's debate, but did it fundamentally change the direction of the race? Well, the consensus is that no, it did not. But there is one more debate ahead -- John McCain, Barack Obama.
And back with me to talk about how the candidates can improve on last night's performance, once again, Jeff Toobin, Errol Louis and Kevin Madden.
Kevin, let me start with you because the general feeling is last night wasn't a game changer. And that's what John McCain needs at this moment if you look at the polls.
KEVIN MADDEN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Right.
BROWN: So, one debate to go. If you're telling him what to do, what do you tell him?
MADDEN: Well, I think he has to continue to make the argument that Barack Obama would take the country in a very wrong direction. I mean, if we look at all these polls, there's a very small sliver of undecided voters out there. That's John McCain's audience.
He has to go out there and make the case that he's the tested candidate. He's the one with the experience. He's the one with the strength on the big issues that they care about. He's going to be the one that's going to instill confidence in the markets, and he's going to protect people.
BROWN: But how? How, Kevin? Because he said all of these things? And how do you do it?
You have this moment. You have this one moment to do it. I mean, what does he say that's different? How does he do it that, you know, it seems like he's tried everything you said and it hasn't worked yet.
MADDEN: Well, I think -- if you look at the anxiety that a lot of voters have on the economy, if you look at the anxiety they have on national security issues, John McCain has to, in these final closing days, make a closing argument that Barack Obama is just not prepared to lead the country on those issues. He doesn't have the experience and he, quite frankly, hasn't best tested before on these issues. And he has to do so with a relentless precision.
He can't do it just a little bit one day and then maybe a little bit the next. It has to be from here, all the way until November 4th, relentlessly hammer home that readiness. BROWN: So that does that mean, guys, negativity? I mean, you have no choice at this stage of the game but to launch a negative campaign, Errol.
ERROL LOUIS, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": Well, it's depressing to hear that. I don't know that the logic will necessarily take you there. It sounds to me that I -- I could maybe see doing that for maybe a week or ten days just to try and fire up the base. Because contrary, I think, to what Kevin is saying, I think that appeals to the base. I mean, they are, in fact, a little bit upset. They're a little bit -- they want to see -- they want to taste some red meat.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, "THE NEW YORKER:" I'm not depressed. I don't mind those negative campaigning. I think negative campaigning is fine, but you've got to have some message attached to it.
And he -- what is John McCain's plan for the economy? There has never been a consistent message. The thing that John McCain talks about more than anything is cutting earmarks, which may be a wonderful thing but it is not going to affect the economy at all. And he's got no other big message.
BROWN: Because, Kevin, even in what you say, it sounds like the primary message you think he needs to convey is that Barack Obama is a risk. And, again, if you're talking about the small margin of independent voters, don't they respond poorly to that sort of negative message?
MADDEN: Well, they're not just independents. They're a lot of Democrats out there that aren't fit with Barack Obama on a lot of these big issues. And what they really want to see is John McCain reassure them on those economic issues, on those national security issues, because right now Barack Obama's support is still a bit soft.
BROWN: All right.
MADDEN: And John McCain has to cut into that.
BROWN: Kevin, got to go. To Jeff and Errol, thanks to all of you.
That's it for tonight.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
