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Campbell Brown
Coverage of Terror in India
Aired November 28, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: This is a special edition of "No Bias, No Bull" continuing coverage of the terror in India. We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer, and these are the chilling words of a survivor. What matters, he says, is you were there, you were American, and that means you were dead.
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BLITZER: Tonight after more than two days of deadly violence, parts of Mumbai are still, repeat, still under siege. Indian commandoes have cleared one hotel, the Oberoi, but not the other one, the Taj Mahal Intercontinental. And there are new reports, just coming out, right now, of gun fire. You heard some of that gun fire live here on CNN.
Forces said to be going floor to floor, room by room, trying to secure this truly historic hotel. And a Jewish center raided this morning, now a scene of unbearable grieving and loss. Two New York rabbis killed there. Two Americans murdered elsewhere, at least 160 fatalities in all.
Survivors from the Taj Mahal Intercontinental, the Oberoi and elsewhere now emerging with truly remarkable stories, many of which you're about to hear tonight. The investigation well under way, with Indian authorities pointing fingers at Pakistan, a pair of nuclear armed neighbors edging toward the brink, perhaps, perhaps what the killers had in mind all along.
There are certainly a lot of -- lots of ground to cover right now. Let's start with late word from Mumbai. CNN's Nic Robertson is standing by live with more. You're on the scene for us. Nic this is an incredibly fast-moving and horrendous story. What's the latest?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf the latest centers around the Taj Mahal hotel, the standoff still going on, one gunman, possibly more in that building, explosions exchanges of gun fire being heard through the night, as you say, up until the last few minutes. That is the sight of the ongoing siege, the huge, vast Taj Mahal hotel.
The Oberoi hotel some 36 people were found dead when security forces managed to get in. Dozens of other guests were released. At the Jewish center in Mumbai, not far from the hotels, a gruesome scene awaited the Indian commandoes who stormed into that building by helicopter, earlier in the morning. By late afternoon, they managed to gain entrance to the building. They found those two rabbis, the wife of one of the rabbis, and two other people dead inside the building, that standoff now over, the standoff at the Oberoi over. The finger-pointing now beginning, Indian officials, including the foreign minister here are pointing the finger at Pakistan, and saying Pakistan had a role in this.
Pakistani officials denying it, the government not offering proof here, Pakistan saying that they are willing to send a high ranking intelligence official from their ISI (ph) intelligence services to India to help with the investigation. Other reports saying that those attackers came by boat, the Indian government has some of those attackers, no doubt, they're questioning them, no doubt they'll be giving more details in the coming days, Wolf.
BLITZER: There are reports, Nic, as you know, that 11 of these terrorists have been killed. Do we have any idea how many overall, how many were involved in this assault on 10 separate locations in Mumbai?
ROBERTSON: The indications are a couple at each location. Two were killed in that shootout at the Chabad Center, and a couple reported going into the Taj hotel, one reported still holding out in the Taj Mahal hotel. It seems that they went in, in maximum of twos and threes.
It seems that they intended to shoot out until the bitter end. But the exact total has not been made clear by the police. This is, after all, an ongoing dynamic operation with exchanges of gunfire going on. The police clearly not wanting to make clear what they know at this time, just in case these attackers, in case there is more of them out there, in case they can relay information to the gunmen or gunman that are still on the loose, there, Wolf.
BLITZER: Two major hotels, a Jewish community center, the railroad station. These are pretty isolated -- pretty different targets. You say two or three terrorists per target. Nic, you've covered a lot of terrorism over these years for CNN. Do we get the sense that the modus operandi, the methods used have the fingerprints of a specific group?
ROBERTSON: It's not clear at this stage, Wolf. The best analysis coming from here in India, apart from what we're hearing from the government, saying that there's an element of Pakistan behind this, is indigenous Indian radical Islamist groups. The fact they've gone after western targets. That's an indication of who they may be.
They said in a press release to different Indian news organizations that they are Deccan Mujahideen (ph). Government officials here say they think that name is just a smoke screen. Deccan refers to a mountainous plateau in the center of India. It's not a mujahideen (ph) group with a track record, perhaps linked to the Indian mujahideen (ph) group, which have sort of strong jihadist roots.
Perhaps, the analysis here is that they have taken expertise from perhaps Pakistan, maybe bomb making, maybe this sort of thing in the past, perhaps taking expertise from Bangladeshi radical Islamist groups as well. But the feeling amongst better informed people here is that this organization had roots here but is borrowing, borrowing ideology from al Qaeda.
No one is saying they have -- that the two things are firmly tied, that anyone's pointing to a connection between al Qaeda and these attacks, but it bears a lot of the ideological hallmarks, going after, singling out British and American tourists, going after the Chabad Center, the Jewish center in the city, as well. So, the picture that is emerging is of an evolving group here.
They didn't make demands by cell phones when they took these people hostage. It does seem the intention was to shoot. They went in heavily armed. Shoot until the shootout was over, and they were dead, so this is a new breed, a new style of attack here, sort of suicide gunmen if you will, Wolf.
BLITZER: Nic, stand by -- Nic with the big picture in Mumbai. As we mentioned, the Taj Mahal Intercontinental hotel remains a hot zone right now. It's very hot. CNN's Sara Sidner is joining us by phone from Mumbai. She's not very far away. How close, are you, Sara, to that hotel right now?
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via phone): We are a few hundred yards to the hotel, standing relatively close, if you can imagine, a scene where there are lots of explosions still going off, very loud. We noticed that there is still this one particular area, Wolf that we've been talking about over these past, say, 10 hours, that seems to be targeted.
We saw a huge flash inside of a first floor window and it's sort of on the right-hand side of this fabulous hotel. Basically saw this huge flash inside, and it's the same area where windows were blown out a few hours ago. So there definitely seems to be an area that's being concentrated on, although now we're hearing a few smaller blasts and it sounds like rapid gunfire in another portion, sort of an inner part of this hotel, as well.
Very difficult to know what is going on actually inside (INAUDIBLE) huge hotel with hundreds of rooms inside, and things seem to be happening anywhere within what is known as the heritage part of the Taj, he old 105-year-old majestic building that is really is the crown jewel of Mumbai. Wolf?
BLITZER: It certainly is. It has been all these years. Sara, I want you to stand by. I want you to be very careful outside that hotel, because we've been reporting gunfire, still being heard at the hotel. We'll get back to you. Some pieces of the picture tonight, a quick look right now at how we got to where we are right now. For that, let's go to CNN's David Mattingly.
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DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Bursts of gunfire, grenade attacks, and death.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was dark and there was blood all over the steps.
MATTINGLY: Within moments, Mumbai, a city of 18 million, is under siege. The timeline of terror begins Wednesday evening, between 8:00 and 9:00 p.m. The killers enter from the harbor, arriving in dinghies. "Newsweek" magazine reports the militants and counter fishermen telling them to mind their own business before splitting up into small groups and fanning out across Mumbai. Their targets, luxury hotels, a hospital, cafes, the Chabad House, Jewish Center and a train station. Around 9:30 p.m., the highly coordinated suicide attack is under way.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We heard shots. We saw men running down our hallway, and we could see (INAUDIBLE) people in the door. We could see guns in their hands. They actually rang our doorbell a few times.
MATTINGLY: Within the next few hours the horror sets in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were using hand grenades to try and blow in doors. And then they seemed to retreat from that and (INAUDIBLE) the hotel. We could hear people it seemed like being dragged up to the roof of the hotel.
MATTINGLY: During that first night, the gunmen killed dozens, injure hundreds, and take scores of hostages.
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MATTINGLY: Early Thursday morning, the fight intensifies; explosions rock the Taj Mahal hotel. And a huge plume of smoke rises into the night. By daybreak, the terror remains. Gunmen continue to hold hostages. Some are freed by soldiers and police officers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody grabbed hands and it was a woman's heel and they were just standing there, and you knew that people died before as we were walking out.
MATTINGLY: Friday, the assault on the Trident (ph) Oberoi hotel ends with at least two extremists dead, and more than 100 guests freed. But there are casualties, among the killed two Americans, Alan Scherr (ph) and his 13-year-old daughter Naomi (ph). At the Chabad House, where government forces have surrounded the building, the standoff ends. When officers enter the center, they find two gunmen dead. They also recover the bodies of five hostages.
David Mattingly, CNN, Atlanta.
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BLITZER: And coming up what the killers' tactics say about who might, who might have been involved, who trained them, who sent them. We'll have more, as well, on the teams who took back Mumbai, and what they found when they did. Also, survivor's stories and we'll talk live to the people who escaped the massacre and what they went through in those awful hours.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was dark and there was blood all over the steps. Thank God they took the bodies away, because it would have been so hard.
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BLITZER: Cheering for a squad of commandos outside the Jewish Center in Mumbai. They ended the siege there, but not before a massacre unfolded. The Mumbai killers targeting Jews, Britons, Americans and more and as CNN's Nic Robertson reported, two of those terrorists may have been holding British passports, Indian officials now pointing fingers at Pakistan, but the Pakistani intelligence chief now offering assistance. Here in the United States, an FBI team on stand-by, waiting for orders to head to Mumbai -- more now from CNN's Kelli Arena.
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KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is still not clear exactly who is responsible for the attacks in Mumbai. The gunmen were young, in their 20's, and had to be trained somewhere.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What I've been told, it carries all the DNA of an al Qaeda operation.
ARENA: Counterterrorism officials say investigators are still looking closely at extremist groups, including Lashkar-e-Taiba (ph) or LET, made up of Pakistani militants who have fought Indian troops in Kashmir. Intelligence sources say the groups' fighters have been sighted in the Pakistan border region and the U.S. believe that some have attended al Qaeda training camps there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somewhere between 15 to 20,000 individuals went through those training camps and that may be a conservative figure. They trained on these types of events. They trained on urban assaults. They trained on attacking vehicles. They trained in taking hostages.
ARENA: Far different from many of the suicide attacks and vehicle bombings we've seen recently, these terrorists came in guns blazing. Mumbai's police commissioner said the men were heavily armed with assault rifles, handguns and grenades. Officials say the attack must have taken months to prepare. The terrorists reportedly even set up control rooms in the two luxury hotels that were hit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's been an extremely disciplined group. The fact that they came in by sea, they picked large hotels, which are very, very difficult to take back.
ARENA: Experts say the coordination of the attack, hitting at least nine sites and the specific targeting of Westerners signals a broader new radical Islamic agenda in the region, and warned the U.S. could face a similar attack.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've always thought that in the past that the terrorists would hit the United States, would hit targets that were high profile. What that now means is they could hit any building in any city in the United States, go in that building, get as high up as they can, and then take their hostages and have a standoff.
ARENA: The FBI sent out a bulletin late Thursday night to its law enforcement partners, citing the Mumbai attacks and urging them to remain vigilant during this period of heightened alert as the United States conducts the transition to the new administration.
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ARENA: The FBI has opened a case into the Mumbai attacks, and as you said, Wolf, its team is standing by. But even if it is allowed in, it's not clear what kind of investigative access it will get. The Indian government calls the shots, Wolf, and there are several other countries who also want a piece of the action. Canada, the UK, Australia, they all lost citizens in this attack.
BLITZER: And I think the Israelis want a piece of that action, too. And they have good relations with the Indian government, as the U.S. obviously does and so does Britain. All right, Kelli. Thanks very much.
Let's dig a little deeper right now with CNN's national security analyst Peter Bergen. He's the author of "The Oral History: The Osama bin Laden I Know" (ph) -- also joining us terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank and security analyst Ken Robinson (ph).
Peter, you've been talking to U.S. counterterrorism officials. They think this may not simply be a local group responsible for the attacks. But tell us what you are hearing.
PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, U.S. counterterrorism officials saw it's implausible that the attack could have only been carried out by a local cell. They're looking at outside help. Of course, outside help is likely to come, unfortunately from Pakistan, which has been the source of many of these attacks.
They are also looking at the possibility of a (INAUDIBLE) Daoud Ebraham (ph). Daoud Ebraham (ph) is an Indian gangster who was living in Bombay, allegedly responsible for attacks in 1993 that killed more than 250 people. He is supposedly living in Pakistan right now.
He's been designated by the United States Treasury as a terrorist with links to al Qaeda and also with links to a Pakistani terrorist group called Lashkar-e-Taiba (ph), which attacked the Indian Parliament in a modus operandi not dissimilar to this in December of 2001, when gunmen went in effectively in a suicide attack and tried to kill as many people as possible in the Indian Parliament, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Paul, these gunmen, as we just have been hearing they obviously knew what they were doing. They were pretty sophisticated. Indian investigators are suggesting some of them may have had some sort of formal military training or experience, so here's the question. What does that say to you?
PAUL CRUICKSHANK, TERRORISM ANALYST: Well if they've had formal military training, it is a sign that perhaps they are linked to some sort of Kashmiri militant group, as Peter was saying, like Lashkar-e- Taiba (ph). Certainly Lashkar-e-Taiba (ph) is a group with a track record of launching these sorts of attacks, within India -- on the Indian Parliament in 2001, in Mumbai itself in 2006. It is also a group within Kashmir that's pioneered these sorts of fedaheen (ph) attacks, which is sort of suicidal operations, where they go in heavy, expecting to die. So some of the tactics that we're seeing suggest maybe a Pakistani Kashmiri group being involved, Wolf.
BLITZER: And as -- and Paul, do you think that they were at least influenced by al Qaeda? Because that's what I'm hearing from a lot of sources, that it may have been a Kashmiri group or some other group within India or Kashmir, but with maybe some links to al Qaeda. Is that your sense?
CRUICKSHANK: At the very least, there seems to be an al Qaeda- inspired operation. Look at the targets, Britons, Americans, and Jewish individuals. That's right out of bin Laden's playbook. At the very least, it seems to be al Qaeda inspired.
BLITZER: Ken, the attackers, they obviously hand guns, lots of grenades, explosives. They even had, as we heard, a control room in one of those luxury hotels, floor plans. How difficult is it to pull off an operation like this?
KEN ROBINSON, SECURITY ANALYST: Well, they're extremely difficult operations unless you plan. And you coordinate, and you conduct reconnaissance, and everything that's been observed so far from the rapid reaction forces that have gone in and confronted them, and from the, those that have been captured, is that this was a very detailed, long rehearsed plan. When Paul mentions the al Qaeda playbook, there actually is a specific hand-written playbook, it's on the Internet.
We discovered in October 2001, CNN, on a show called "Terror on Tape," where there were multiple tapes that had distance learning, that had descriptions of every phase of how to conduct and plan one of these operations. And they've moved that planning to the Web, where other affiliated groups can draw on it and the lessons learned from it.
BLITZER: So, you believe, Ken, that at a minimum, al Qaeda may have inspired this kind of operation, is that right?
ROBINSON: I believe that we should assume that -- that facing any other type of evidence, that certainly their successes in the past give that to other groups to be ambitious, to be able to conduct audacious attacks that grab the world's attention, so that they can get a cause out, as well as hurt their enemy financially, and this is a massive financial target.
BLITZER: Massive, Mumbai, the commercial capital of India, about 20 million people live there. Peter, India and Pakistan as we have been pointing out over these decades a rather strained relationship, they've gone to war a few times. If any of these terrorists did, in fact, have connections or training or intelligence from authorities in Pakistan, what would that do to these tensions between these two nuclear powers?
BERGEN: Well you may recall, Wolf, that several months ago the Indian government and also American intelligence officials said that elements of the Pakistan's military intelligence agency ISI (ph) was involved in an attack on the Indian embassy in Kabul that killed more than 40 people. So, at that time, India didn't really respond.
I think India was taking a pretty responsible and mature approach to these kinds of attacks. In the past, they have a much bigger interest in peace with Pakistan than just one provocative attack and responding to that. So, right now both countries have said a lot of things, trying to put, you know, not just ratchet up tension. We've had a report as Nic was saying that a senior Pakistani intelligence official might go to India. It's still not clear if that's actually going to happen. But right now, both countries are trying to essentially not ratchet up tensions.
BLITZER: The U.S., as you know, Peter, has an enormously close cooperation with both India and Pakistan; rely on both countries in the war on terror. Certainly rely on both as far as the Afghan situation is concerned. This could clearly complicate U.S. national security, couldn't it?
BERGEN: Well indeed, President-elect Obama is going to come into office, and one of the first things that he's hoping to do, I think, is you know address the al Qaeda safe haven on the Afghan-Pakistan border. If the Pakistanis feel the tension is really ratcheted up with India, they are going to take people away from the western border with Afghanistan and put them on the eastern border with India. Obviously from the point of view of American national security and security around the world if that happens, we are less secure.
BLITZER: Peter, I want you to stand by, Paul and Ken also, we're going to be speaking to all of you over the course of these hours of our coverage. Stand by.
When we come back the men and women who were unfortunate enough to be caught up in the middle of this horror, but lucky enough and resourceful enough to escape with their lives -- how did they do it? Our coverage continues right after this.
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DAVID JACOBS, AUSTRALIAN SURVIVOR OF THE HOTEL ATTACK: I was in my room. I heard a series of loud explosions. I thought it might have been construction to start with. I then started to think it wasn't. I then had a look over the atrium. It was clear to me that this was a terrorist attack. I went back inside my room and barricaded the door.
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BLITZER: Tonight, we're hearing a wide range of reactions from the survivors of these Mumbai terrorist attacks, everything from fear to defiance. With me right now on the phone from Manchester, England, is another eyewitness to the attacks.
Sajjad Karim is a member of the European Parliament. He arrived at the Taj Mahal Intercontinental hotel only hours before the shooting started. Mr. Karim thanks very much for helping us understand what happened. I take it you were standing just outside the Taj hotel when gunfire broke out. It certainly must have been pure chaos, but walk us through what happened.
SAJJAD KARIM, EYEWITNESS (via phone): Well, basically, we'd just arrived at the Taj about an hour or so beforehand. I made my way towards the front lobby, and I was just stood immediately outside the front doors when we heard the first rounds of shooting taking place. But that was all outside the main curettage (ph) of the hotel.
And then the security staff came and asked us to all go into the hotel. And at this point, lots of people started running in from the street, including one lady who was limping her way in, with blood pouring down out of her foot and leg. When we were in the main lobby, all of a sudden, everybody started to make a rush for a rear exit in the hotel.
I didn't stop to look why, but I could hear much more pronounced gunshots, which made it quite clear that the gunmen had made their way into the curettage (ph) of the front of the hotel and a lot of panic, people shouting, screaming. But unfortunately, as we made it to the rear exit, another gunman appeared and then stood immediately in front of us, literally 15, 16, 17 yards in front and just pointed an automatic rifle machine gun at us and then started spraying us with bullets.
BLITZER: And so, what did he look like? You were obviously only, what, feet away from this individual. You know what -- you must have been terrified.
KARIM: Yes, it's not the sort of experience that you as a civilian can you know ever prepare yourself for. You never expect to have to deal with this sort of a situation, but I mean I found things happen literally within split seconds. He appeared in front of us. My concentration was more on the gun, the weapon that he was carrying than on him, himself.
BLITZER: Could you tell his nationality, based on that quick second that you looked at his face?
KARIM: I mean, from the very brief glimpse that I got of him, he was a fairly young man of South Asian appearance, and he was wearing a smile on his face as he started to spray the bullets.
BLITZER: A smile on his face, wow. All right, now you eventually got to a room where you and the other guests barricaded the door. How long were you in that room? What was it like? KARIM: Well, from the point of arrival in that room, which must have been around 10:00 p.m., it was going on towards 6:00 a.m., by the time we were rescued by the Indian army, so, we had the best part of about eight hours in there. And of course, over that period of time, there were all sorts of different emotions.
We were a group of about 40 or 50 individuals, including some hotel staff members who were truly excellent in the way they dealt with things. But of course, with such a large and diverse group, you do get mixed emotions; some people are more in control than others. But you know, there is a real need to try to make sure you all come out of this at the other end.
BLITZER: Sajjad Karim, tell us what it was like when the Indian army, finally, after all these hours, reached you, and you got a sense that you were finally safe.
KARIM: There was a lot of relief, but at the same time, there was real anxiety, because whilst most of the people that were in the room at the time had actually been in the restaurant, they hadn't witnessed what had taken place in the main lobby area. There was about four or five or us who had escaped from the lobby area and had seen people being gunned down. And in order to get out of the hotel, we would, once again, going to have to walk through that very same lobby area.
And so that was an experience that, you know, you wouldn't really wish upon anybody. But it was the only way out, and we had to come through that, and then, of course, we didn't know what may happen, as we're leaving, because we were all aware that the hotel wasn't as yet secure. We could still hear gunshots and firing, grenades were going off from time to time, there had been various explosions that had rocked the hotel, and throughout the time, we had been witness to all of that whilst seeing the shooting at the outset, as well. It really, truly was an awful, horrible, horrible experience.
BLITZER: Well, thank God you got out, and the others got out, as well. And our condolences to the families of all those who didn't. Sajjad Karim is a member of the European parliament. He's back home in Manchester, England, right now. Thank you very much.
Let's get another story of survival, right now. Jonathan Mackoff is joining us. His parents were visiting Mumbai, they were rescued only today, after being trapped for more than 40 hours at the Taj Mahal Intercontinental Hotel. Dr. Mackoff is joining us from Chicago.
You're a chiropractor. Dr. Mackoff, tell us how you actually found out about these attacks from your -- you actually found out from one of your patients, but I take it you knew your parents were staying at the Taj Hotel.
JONATHAN MACKOFF, FAMIY RESCUED FROM TAJ MAHAL HOTEL: I knew they were in India, my mother always sends out her itinerary, but I don't usually look at it except for when they're coming back. So, when a patient told me there was something going on in Mumbai, I had to see where they were. And once I checked, they were in Mumbai, and then I saw that they were in the Taj Mahal Hotel. And from there, I tried to figure out what to do, and I tried calling that hotel.
BLITZER: And so did you -- what did you do? How did you get in touch with your parents?
MACKOFF: A couple of times -- the first time, as soon as I found out, a little bit after I found out, I called the actual hotel, and surprisingly enough, I did get through, and they did send me to my parents' room. And this is after they were told to lock down their rooms and not move and not talk and not let anybody in. And this is when their TVs were already off, so they weren't getting any outside information, either.
BLITZER: So, you started -- I take it, texting your family during those 40 awful hours. Is that right?
MACKOFF: Yes. Yes. There was a lot of thumb time during that time. It was -- a lot of texting back and forth, on and off. Yeah. So, that's how I helped them get information, and that's how I found out how they were doing.
BLITZER: Let me read from one of those texts, so our viewers have a better appreciation of what you guys were going through. This is what your mom wrote, she wrote: "I will be awake. Keep me informed when you can."
MACKOFF: That was me.
BLITZER: And you responded, is everything OK? Or, I guess that's -- you wrote. That's reversed.
MACKOFF: Yes.
BLITZER: So you wrote, "Mom, I will be awake. Keep me informed when you can." You responded, "Is everything OK?"
And then you got a message from her, "So far, so good. The explosions and gunfire seem farther away than yesterday."
I can only imagine what was going through your mind, going through this kind of ordeal with your parents. But, walk us through some of the specifics.
MACKOFF: Well, when they were in their room they -- it was basically wait and see for a long time. You know, they had food, they had some water, they packed some extra food, because they weren't sure about food conditions at some points where they were going to be, if they were going to not like or not have what they would be able to handle. So, they had just in case food. And luckily this, they had it for this, just in case.
At about 12:15, they were in touch with the consulate. I got my mother's cell phone number, plus her room number, to the State Department with the help of my cousin, also, and just to first of all make sure that they knew that there were people still in the hotel that weren't hostage, but still in the hotel, as well as keep them in contact.
And one of the reasons I was texting more is because, keeping the voice line free just in case they needed to contact, by the State Department or someone else need to contact them through the phone.
BLITZER: And your parents are OK, they got out, they were rescued. And where are they now?
MACKOFF: They were rescued. They are on flight back to Chicago.
BLITZER: Thank god for that. We're really happy for you and your parents, that they survived this ordeal. Dr. Jonathan Mackoff, joining us from Chicago. Jonathan, thank you very much.
MACKOFF: Thank you.
BLITZER: The Indian massacre is forcing the current and incoming White House staffs to work together in ways no one expected. We're going to get an update on President Bush and President-elect Barack Obama. That's coming up, next.
And in Mumbai's homents tonight, the wounded are telling truly chilling stories of their close encounters with the terrorists. You're going to want to hear this. Stay with us for that.
Also, we're watching today's other news, including a tragic start to this holiday shopping season. See where a store worker was trampled to death today by a crowd of shoppers. Stay with us. Much more of our coverage after this.
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BLITZER: Go right back to Mumbai, the Taj Mahal Intercontinental Hotel. Our Sara Sidner is outside that hotel.
Sara, I take it more gunfire, only seconds ago? Well, what's going on?
SARA SIDNER, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Literally three seconds ago, Wolf, we heard a barrage of gunfire. What sounds like a gun battle, you'll hear a little bit of noise, it sounds like what might be an automatic weapon, and you hear what sounds like what might be a handgun. The different sounds going back and forth, back and forth. So, we're not quite sure what is going on inside there, but certainly is gunfire going off rapidly over the past several minutes.
There was -- just a few seconds ago, the journalists that are standing around this hotel started running. And I was asking them (INAUDIBLE) "what happened, what happened?" and no one seemed to know. So, there is a spooky situation, because there is no real barrier between them and the Taj, we're all sort of standing in an area that's very open. It's a big, wide open space, and this has all been going on in the first floor, right in front of us. Basically right directly in front of us, a straight line shot.
So, we, ourselves, at CNN, have pulled ourselves back a bit here at CNN, between a couple of vans just to make sure that we're safe, somewhere that we can duck behind. But yeah, it's a spooky situation, and journalists certainly feeling nervous. We're the only one heres at this point (INAUDIBLE). Even the police started running just a few seconds ago -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Sara, what time is it now? Because, it must be very early morning. Is it daylight yet?
SIDNER: It is not quite daylight. It is now 6:10 in the morning. And, you know Wolf, this has been going on for more than 48 hours. We are in this third day of this. A lot of people who are exhausted, not only the police outside, who have been going in shifts and rotations, but of course, those who may still be inside that hotel, it just seems as if, if there is, in fact, that one gunman still in there, but certainly he has not let up at all. The commandos have been going in, one after another, going in and there is definitely a lot going on still inside that hotel -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Gunfire being -- all right, Sara is one of our courageous journalists. Sara Sidner, outside the Taj Mahal Intercontinental Hotel where gunfire is being heard right now. We're going to get back to you, Sara. Be careful over there, please.
Both President Bush and President-elect Barack Obama issued statements late today about these terror attacks in Mumbai. Our White House correspondent Ed Henry is in Chicago, he's covering this transition to power.
Ed, President Bush has been at Camp David, monitoring the situation. What's the latest from the president, first of all, give us that.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well Wolf, he has an intense focus throughout the Bush administration in dealing with this crisis, any help the U.S. can offer at all.
As you mentioned, the president still at Camp David for Thanksgiving weekend. He's getting face-to-face briefings from Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, he also expressed outrage today about the loss of American lives, saying, "Laura and I are deeply saddened that at least two Americans were killed and others injured in Wednesday's horrific attacks in Mumbai. My administration has been working with the Indian government and the international community as Indian authorities work to ensure the safety of those still under threat. We will continue to cooperate against these extremists who offer nothing but violence and hopelessness."
You heard the president mention, trying to offer help. One potential avenue of help would be helping the Indian government restore order on the ground. They have not put in a request for that yet, but that could be one option. The second thing, you heard Kelli Arena report earlier this hour, there are FBI agents standing at the ready in case the Indian government needs help with investigating these attacks - Wolf.
BLITZER: What about the president-elect? How is he reacting to all of this? Because we've been telling our viewers he did issue a statement, late today.
HENRY: Well, you remember late in the campaign, Joe Biden mentioned that Barack Obama would be tested by an international crisis in his first six movants. Obviously, a cris has come sooner than that, but Barack Obama, obviously, is not commander in chief, yet, so he's walking a very fine line.
He doesn't have the power to step in and take any action, but he's trying to make sure he's up to speed on the situation because Biden obviously could be right, there could be -- this points to the fact that there could be any number of national security crises that pops up next year. So, Barack Obama has been getting briefings from his own national security staff.
He also put out a statement late today, saying, "Michelle and I send our deepest condolences to the loved ones of the American citizens who lost their lives in the outrageous terrorist attacks in Mumbai. The U.S. must stand with India and all nations and people who are committed to destroying terrorist networks, and defeating their hate-filled ideology." He went on to say, "There is only one president at a time" and thanked the Bush administration for their cooperation. There have been briefings, actually, from Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, not just to the current president, but also to the president-elect, here in Chicago, via telephone. And so, he's thanking them for that cooperation during the transfer of power.
And don't forget, next week, we're expecting Barack Obama will unveiling his national security team, just as he unveiled his economic team this week, to try and reassure the markets that he wants to, in his words, "hit the ground running on January 20," he's going to do the same with his national security team next week with the national security team -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Ed Henry, covering this transition to power in Chicago where there's lots going on. Stand by, Ed.
Want to remind our viewers, this is a special two-hour edition of NO BIAS, NO BULL. In a minute, we're taking a closer look at what's being done to treat the more than 300 people wounded in the Mumbai attacks. There's some other important news we're following, as well, tonight. Tom Foreman joining us with the briefing -- Tom.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Wolf. The holiday shopping season is off to a bizarre, tragic start in New York. A temporary worker at a Long Island Wal-Mart was trampled to death by shoppers rushing into the store when it opened this morning. Police say the metal doorway crumpled like an accordion. Four or five other people, including a pregnant woman suffered minor injuries there.
Analysts are crediting the positive psychological benefit of Barack Obama's choices for his economic team for Wall Street's latest winning streak. Today's holiday shortened session was the market's fifth-straight day of gains. The Dow ended the week 785 points higher at 8829.
And a new tape from al Qaeda's No. 2 man contains a prescription for the economic crisis. Ayman al zawahiri calls on Americans to embrace Islam to overcome the financial meltdown. He says, that way, we can live a life free of greed, exploitation and forbidden wealth. At least that's his advice -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Yeah, all right, thank you for that, Tom. Stand by.
Saving the survivors, the frantic efforts underway to treat all the wounded, there are hundreds of them. We have some explosive access to one of the hospitals in Mumbai, where doctors and patients are sharing their incredible stories. That's coming up, next.
And later, a victim of the horror. An orthodox rabbi left New York City to spread his faith in Mumbai. Tonight, his life rembered by family, friends and followers. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Killers on the hunt, video reportedly of the gunmen in Mumbai after they executed police officers and hijacked their vehicle. It's a very active situation unfolding in the city right now, especially over at the hospitals. Hundreds of injured people are being treated, some of them may be Americans. CNN's Matthew Chance got some exclusive access to one of those hospitals earlier today. Here's his report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): They're the survivors of the appalling Mumbai attacks, scarred by gunshots and shrapnel wounds in the violence that's gripped India's financial hub. Some only escaped death by a whisker.
Like 40-year-old Ramesh (ph), who showed me the bullet hole in his shoulder inflicted when gunmen burst into the hotel restaurant where he was eating with his boss.
RAMESH, SHOT DURING ATTACK: My boss died on the spot. So, he was sitting in some of where hiding, so I saw this wasn't coming, the gun, so we are using the BlackBerry. I want to go -- I put the BlackBerry like this and I cover him like this, so I got here on the, not here on the...
CHANCE (on camera): You got shot in the shoulder.
RAMESH: In the shoulder, yes, that's right. And he asked me, are you all right. I told him I'm fine. Second shot gun to him on the -- direct to him, and the third, it came and just went like this.
CHANCE (voice over): We were granted exclusive access to Mumbai's Sir J.J. Hospital where most of the injured from the past few days are being treated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the bed of one of the policemen who...
CHANCE: One doctor shows me a twisted belt buckle, he says, stopped a terrorist bullet, saving the life of the policeman who is wearing it. (On camera): All of this injured have incredible stories of survival to tell. Many have lost friends and loved ones in the Mumbai attacks. And they may not even be the last casualties to come out of this mess. This city's nightmare is far from over.
(Voice over): For some, like this 13-year-old boy, the nightmare may never end. He's nursing wounds from a grenade blast that ripped through one of Mumbai's residential zones. He wants to leave the hospital soon, he told me, and go home. But doctors here say they don't have the heart to tell him that most of his family, his mom, his dad, his uncle and cousins, were killed in the attack. It is another shattered life in a city now filled with tragedy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHANCE: Well Wolf, we were able to speak to just a few of the casualties in that hospital ward, but so many people in the city have been affected by the coordinated attacks. Those casualty victims, again, 300 people or more injured, at least 160 dead. And the siege, particularly around the Taj Hotel, is still very much underway -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Yeah, we're watching that. Sara Sidner's over there, she's hearing gunfire, right now. We're going to go back there. Matthew, thank you very much.
Up next, one of the Americans killed in the attacks. There's new information we're getting right now on one of the two America American rabbis who died in Mumbai, his life rembered.
Also, the latest developments on this battle. The death toll now rising and there are new reports coming out of an ongoing standoff, that's all coming up. We'll be right back.
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BLITZER: It's a dramatic, rather dramatic video from Mumbai, of police commandos descending from a helicopter to storm the Jewish center right in the heart of the city. When they entered they found the bodies of five hostages, including two American rabbis and the wife of one of them. We want to tell you more about one of these victims who left New York City for India five years ago. CNN's Mary Snow reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Rabbi Gavriel Holtzberg and his wife Rivka, traveled to Mumbai in 2003 to spread their faith, teaching the Torah and opening a community center to work with drug abusers and the poor. Their message, anyone who comes here is welcome.
Before they lived in India, the Holtzbergs lived in Crown Heights, Brooklyn, which is home to the headquarters of the ultra- Orthodox Chabad Lubavitch Jewish sect, which they belong to. Today some in the community struggled for words to express their pain. MOSHE KOTLARSKY, CHABAD LUBAVITCH MOVEMENT: We're going to miss him very dearly. He was a very, very special person, him and his wife. Very, very special people.
SNOW: The Lubavitch movement calls for its members to act as emissaries around the world. And friends say Rabbi Holtzberg, just 29, and his wife Rivka, 28, were known for acting as hosts to travelers in India.
DOVID ZAKLIKOWSKI, FRIEND OF RABBI HOLTZBERG: Whether it was an Israeli backpacker or an American businessman, or the local Indian Jew from the Jewish community, everyone felt as their home was open that, that it was a beacon of light, of friendship inside Mumbai.
SNOW: On Wednesday, after news that the Holtzbergs' Mumbai Chabad House had been attacked by terrorists, members of the NY community formed a crisis center trying to get whatever information possible and decipher fact from rumor.
Community leaders say Rabbi Holtzberg was last heard from Wednesday night when he called the Israeli Consulate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He contacted them and the words he said to them was (INAUDIBLE), the situation is not good.
SNOW: Leaders here say this nanny was able to make an escape with the Holtzberg's toddler son. When they emerged, his pants were described as blood soaked. The child is safe with other family members, now.
Friends coming to grips with the tragedy say they're looking to their friend, Rabbi Holtzberg, even now.
RABBI YITZCHOK ITKIN, FRIEND OF RABBI HOLTZBERG: He had a zest for life, a positive energy about him, always a twinkle in his eye. And I think he would want to us do the same, not just to mourn his life, but to celebrate, and do as he did. He lived his life for others. I think we should do the same.
SNOW (on camera): As the Jewish Sabbath got underway, the NYPD increased security outside the Brooklyn Chabad headquarters. This, as the community continues offering prayers. Rabbi Holtzberg's brother- in-law told us that he hopes people will mark this tragedy by focusing on the positive and the good works the Holtzbergs' did.
Mary Snow, CNN, Brooklyn, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Sadly, there are dozens, dozens of stories like this one tonight, with the crisis still playing out, right now. And as we've been telling you, gunfire being heard outside the Taj Mahal Intercontinental Hotel. We're going to get the latest on all of this. There are developments happening, right now. Much more of our coverage coming up at the top of the hour and indeed, throughout the night, right here on CNN. We'll be right back.